Guild Wars 2

I dunno how you guys expect Anet to fix the fact that some servers are better than others.

It is part of any competition there are winners and losers.

Cloud.7613:

Kolly.9872:

@Kitem
yeah and wouldn’t you like to find and fight against people instead of NPC or PvDoor?

an easy win is boring as hell and so it is being stomped

What NA players don’t understand is that Oceanic players rarely if ever fight nothing but NPCs and Doors. The server isn’t empty, just so happens the Oceanic players are more in numbers. THIS is the problem.

You are splitting hairs. The disadvantage is bad enough that the entire map ends up capped for hours on end until all keeps on the map are one color with full supply and upgrades and arrow carts are pointing at the other two spawns.

Whether there are 10-20 NAs PVEing with the outmanned buff or not is insignificant.

Night capping isn’t entirely the fault of players from other continents. Eu servers have comparatively less Oceanic and American players but night capping is still an issue. And it’s not just at the top of the ladder because the problem perpetuates down the ladder.

We still have night capping issues simply because some servers stay up longer than others. In my matchup with Piken Square, Ring of Fire and Vabbi, Ring of Fire has been taking almost the entire map after midnight. And it’s primarily because our numbers dwindle much more than theirs after midnight.

So often I hear that we should be recruiting guilds from other parts of the world and many have outlined why this isn’t feasible. Even if you do manage to pull it off, all you are doing is avoiding being bullied by becoming the bully.

Each server should have had a uniform distribution of people from all over the world but classification of Eu and US servers goes against this. And it’s the reason why queue times are so high on some servers because it has a high concentration of people in the same timezone.

If I play when you sleep and you sleep when I play, there is no need to have a server for each of us.

Cloud.7613

lollie.5816

Using terms like “night capping” further trivialises and demeans the efforts of the people playing during these hours, while making the NA people feel further justified with their feelings of outrage.

This, I’m actually shocked and insulted even Arena Net representatives call it night capping. But moving on from that, It’s only the NA population complaining about this, as lollie said, when SoS gets nightcapped they get back to work the next day.
I’ve said it a hundred times and I’ll say it again, just because you’re sleeping, doesn’t mean the MASSIVE NA population is too, because news flash, they’re not.

You do know that nightcapping goes both ways → Oceanics nightcapping a NA (mostly) population server. And a NA based server nightcapping an Oceanic (mostly) population server.

I am trully amazed to see that people keep bringing: time-zones, peak-hours, off peak-hours. This has nothing to do with the main issue at hand.

The real problem is players not having anything to fight against, no opposition (which is already bad). And contributing for the “ranking ladder” with much more points then players who fought against same population opposition and had earn those points.

First problem should be partially solved if the “matching” system takes into account the spread all around the clock population. So spread out queue servers should have a higher change to fight another larger queue server, a.k.a. populated servers.

Second problem could be solved with a different “points” system in which takes much more into account the kills/sieges destroyed instead of keep/tower takes.

Regarding this proposed solution one could argue.. then what is the point of taking keep/towers or going into WvWvW when the other server is sleeping if we’ll get less points?
Simple because when you take an objective such as this, it is automaticaly an advantage to have a “safe” place inside enemy territory, not saying that you can defend it while your zone is free from their attacks (or they will be at least forced to spread out) plus you can build sieges and nuke other places from safety. Besides the fact that you will still earn points capping against a sleeping server, so in the end a server with a more spread-around-the-clock population will still have a fairly good advantage against them in the end, but it won’t be anything like it is now which is completely demoralizing and making people simple quit W3. Additionally i liked some ideas made about being able to upgrade certain towers/keeps to make it harder to take even when there’s not many people defending it.

We could also use some sort of EvE system as well, which timers on lock-out and so on.

Anyway, we’re on the 14th page… Would you guys please keep this discussion constructive instead of talking about kittening time-zones and Oceanic/Asians what-so-kittening-ever which is completely irrelevant and do nothing but cover the actual few good ideas that were posted? Thank you.

defrule.7236:

Night capping isn’t entirely the fault of players from other continents. Eu servers have comparatively less Oceanic and American players but night capping is still an issue. And it’s not just at the top of the ladder because the problem perpetuates down the ladder.

We still have night capping issues simply because some servers stay up longer than others. In my matchup with Piken Square, Ring of Fire and Vabbi, Ring of Fire has been taking almost the entire map after midnight. And it’s primarily because our numbers dwindle much more than theirs after midnight.

So often I hear that we should be recruiting guilds from other parts of the world and many have outlined why this isn’t feasible. Even if you do manage to pull it off, all you are doing is avoiding being bullied by becoming the bully.

Each server should have had a uniform distribution of people from all over the world but classification of Eu and US servers goes against this. And it’s the reason why queue times are so high on some servers because it has a high concentration of people in the same timezone.

If I play when you sleep and you sleep when I play, there is no need to have a server for each of us.

Some EU servers have NA players. Some well-known examples of this is French-Canadians on the French speaking EU servers.

Ignicity.7938:

Konrad Curze.5130:

Now they dont have a place to put the few oceanic players that are utterly ruining everybody else’s fun, and their own fun aswell.
Oceanic players are just victims like the rest of us, they arent the ones to blame. Its ANet.

You heard it here first, people.

Oceanic players are utterly ruining everybody’s fun, including our own.

What an absolute load of kitten.

unless they are one of the typical morons riding coattails in one of the 3 top servers, which are “roughly” balanced, chances are yes, oceanic players are ruining everybody else’s fun in their matchup.

alternatively, check what your other fellow oceanics from SoJ say. The game isnt fun for them either. in the servers that have mostly oceanic presence but no EU nor US, the matchup is a total boredom for all sides involved, most of the time people PvEing objetives, barely ever having a chance to see anyone online in the other side to fight.

last time I checked, balanced matchups are rarer than rocking horse kitten…or without the metaphor: nonexistant.

come into terms with the fact that, due to a HUGE developer oversight when designing their systems, and to circumstances outside your control, OCEANIC PLAYERS ARE SCREWING EVERYBODY ELSES FUN. period.

do you know how Oceanic players could help solve the issue? if they distributed evenly among 3 servers of their choice. Then 3 servers would be balanced in oceanic presence, and the other 45 would be (mostly) free of the nightcapping taint.

but Im not asking that, that would be unfair for oceanics.
Its ANets fault and they better solve it themselves, making all sides happy.

Dinks.2478:

defrule.7236:

Night capping isn’t entirely the fault of players from other continents. Eu servers have comparatively less Oceanic and American players but night capping is still an issue. And it’s not just at the top of the ladder because the problem perpetuates down the ladder.

We still have night capping issues simply because some servers stay up longer than others. In my matchup with Piken Square, Ring of Fire and Vabbi, Ring of Fire has been taking almost the entire map after midnight. And it’s primarily because our numbers dwindle much more than theirs after midnight.

So often I hear that we should be recruiting guilds from other parts of the world and many have outlined why this isn’t feasible. Even if you do manage to pull it off, all you are doing is avoiding being bullied by becoming the bully.

Each server should have had a uniform distribution of people from all over the world but classification of Eu and US servers goes against this. And it’s the reason why queue times are so high on some servers because it has a high concentration of people in the same timezone.

If I play when you sleep and you sleep when I play, there is no need to have a server for each of us.

Some EU servers have NA players. Some well-known examples of this is French-Canadians on the French speaking EU servers.

Yet on the servers that don’t have large NA presence we still face night capping. I know about Vizunah Square but not all servers are like them here in the Eu. My server which is at the bottom half of the ladder, it’s about who sleeps first rather than who has international presence.

I don’t know, It is pretty much known that the servers that keep winning in NA are the ones with an Oceanic presence.

Dinks.2478:

I don’t know, It is pretty much known that the servers that keep winning in NA are the ones with an Oceanic presence.

yes, so what? its a system that rewards around the clock presence, so what you said is hardly shocking. more like a self fulfilling prophecy.

its the same as saying that rich people are better than poor people. the problem comes when you use an as-backwards system to measure “better”, like e.×. linking “wealth” with “worth as human being”.

Dinks.2478:

I don’t know, It is pretty much known that the servers that keep winning in NA are the ones with an Oceanic presence.

I know that much.

What I’m saying is here in the EU at the bottom of the ladder, Oceanics and Americans aren’t the primary source of night capping. It’s simply the difference in when people log off that leads to the night capping here.

This isn’t about Oceanics, Asians, Russians, or French Canadians.

This isn’t about time zones, or geography, or work schedules, or staying up all night to win.

This isn’t about xenophobia or racism or isolationism.

This is about massive participation mis-matches destroying any chance of true competition in WvWvW over longer games, namely one to two weeks.

The root of this problem is thus:
WvWvW is and should be a 24/7 game mode; servers are not designed for 24/7 player loads.

I think the best possible solution to this problem is threefold:
1) Eliminate NA and EU designations. (language designations would be fine)
2) Announce a finite time remaining for free transfers. (at least 2 full matches)
3) Continue focusing developer attention on bugs/exploits/hacks.

Binafus.8153:

I dunno how you guys expect Anet to fix the fact that some servers are better than others.

It is part of any competition there are winners and losers.

Sorry but the “better” server(s) can not be determined in this system
A higher populated server isn’t a better server they win due to numbers
A server with heavy night activity isn’t a better server then a server without because leads are made and widened against nobody. Do you honestly feel that a better group of players is necessary to take unmanned objectives?

It just seems almost impossibly moronic that people associate better guilds and players with highest 24/7 population

Sky.9347:

The root of this problem is thus:
WvWvW is and should be a 24/7 game mode; servers are not designed for 24/7 player loads.

wholeheartly agree with the philosophy

Sky.9347:

I think the best possible solution to this problem is threefold:
1) Eliminate NA and EU designations. (language designations would be fine)
2) Announce a finite time remaining for free transfers. (at least 2 full matches)
3) Continue focusing developer attention on bugs/exploits/hacks.

disagree
that wouldnt solve much, if anything. I think that is impossible to achieve balance just by letting the playerbase self control itself, it will never work. human nature, specially on the internet, equals egoism.

24/7 balanced servers is an utopia. it will never happen. lets come into terms with that.

my solution is simple.
abandon the idea of 24/7

1) IP Ban/ Lock NA and EU regions
2) create new Asian/SEA region
3) Announce a finite time remaining for free transfers. (at least 2 full matches)

anyone that doesnt take advantage of that free transfers to go to a region that fits him will see that chars locked.

Konrad Curze.5130:

Sky.9347:

The root of this problem is thus:
WvWvW is and should be a 24/7 game mode; servers are not designed for 24/7 player loads.

wholeheartly agree

Sky.9347:

I think the best possible solution to this problem is threefold:
1) Eliminate NA and EU designations. (language designations would be fine)
2) Announce a finite time remaining for free transfers. (at least 2 full matches)
3) Continue focusing developer attention on bugs/exploits/hacks.

disagree
that wouldnt solve much, if anything.

my solution is:

1) IP Ban/ Lock NA and EU regions
2) create new Asian/SEA region
3) Announce a finite time remaining for free transfers. (at least 2 full matches)

anyone that doesnt take advantage of that free transfers to go to a region that fits him will see that chars locked.

Your solution and my solution are just two takes on the same idea, and in that respect I agree.

There are multiple factors that would ultimately suggest one of the two as optimal, but none of us have access to enough data to make that call.

In any case, the problem has nothing to do with the game itself and rather everything to do with the server system.

@ Konrad Curze

Your “solution” would be very bad for the game. Why should players be punished for playing on a different continent when they have been able to do so for years in every other MMO? I play on the US servers for a good reason and if I would be forced to play elsewhere I would quit playing the game completely. I am not going to play this game all by myself, thank you. I happen to have many American friends. Or how about expats living in Europe? Should they be forced to play in Europe and not on the American servers with their friends? Merging the American and EU servers isn’t an option either because in all honesty I think EU servers in MMOs have become so common because the European Union requires companies to operate in the EU if they even want to do business in the EU.

Creating new Asian/SEA region servers solves nothing. You will now have players in every region who don’t have 9 till 5 jobs who now have even less people to play with and against in WvW at the time they can play.

I have noticed that many of the solutions in this thread punish the players who simply don’t play during prime time. Other solutions lead to the player base telling you to log out of WvW because you are affecting the score negatively (when you have more players than the other server).

And sorry but this not a problem that was somehow created by ArenaNet. It is not their fault if only a few servers have players during off peak hours on. We all choose what server to play on and thus it is absolutely a problem we created. Although I wouldn’t really call it a problem. I think players themselves are a problem because they can’t deal with having way less points than the number one. Yes, it can be called demoralizing but a lot of players make it worse by giving up. ArenaNet can’t solve the issue of people giving up without completely removing the point system. And I absolutely believe the last thing they should do is remove the point system. I have no interest in this game becoming DAoC’s RvR 2.0 with there being absolutely no point in taking objectives.

Another issue addressed in here by AN is the prospect of making WvW more rewarding to players. The last thing I want to see is killing players becoming more important than taking or defending objectives. WvW isn’t just PvP or it would have been called PvP instead.

The only current solution I can agree with is making matches shorter again. Although I must say I can’t see that working for long either. A different match every day or slightly longer will make people leave just as well.

And how should AN be determining which server is better? Sorry but I have to disagree with this system being bad because lower pop servers could possibly have better players. You can’t make a system around that. And it just sounds to me that some people want a more fair system when a war simply isn’t fair. You can’t make a system which takes all issues into account without it destroying WvW completely if you end up giving more points to your server by not logging in at all.

Do the devs play WvW in any form?

Do they play on a server that is getting destroyed because of population imbalance?

Do they have fun playing either side of these lopsided matchups?

I like how everybokitteneps bringing up how we’re trying to punish non North Americans, meanwhile the whole point is that North Americans are screwed over because of this situation.

edit: how did it turn “everybody” and “keeps” into a “kitten” Are you serious Anet?

Region locking does not solve anything. All it does is change the problem from “whoever has most oceanics/asians/EU/NA/martians wins” to " whoever has more players willing to stay awake the longer time wins".

A PvP system in which scoring is not linked to actual PvP activity is botched. End of. Just ask Funcom and Bioware, they learned this the hard way.

@defrule.

And when we (Underworld) faced Ring of Fire last week, mostly we night capped their maps and won the match with around 100K difference.

This week Gandara is night capping us and already guaranteed the victory by today already.

Isn’t it sooooo much fun on every tier of EU competition?

@spif.

If I remember correctly one of the devs made a post about “How fun it is to make the last stand after midnight”

Btw guys it’s just not the time-zone problem. Locking regions won’t fix huge score differences on population fluctuations at off-times at EU. Currently 30 men sleeping less decides who will win the match, nothing else.

Even though it’s fair, it’s not competitive or fun that who’s going to win is only decided by who sleeps less

MagnusLL.8473:

A PvP system in which scoring is not linked to actual PvP activity is botched. End of. Just ask Funcom and Bioware, they learned this the hard way.

This. I fear ANet will join the crowd pretty soon

Do not allow transfers to the top 20 percent pop servers.

Give a buff for karma/gold/exp on the bottom 20 percent.

Binafus:

The “top 20%” aren’t okay or evenly matched either. In fact, SBI (#2 NA) seems unable to fill up even one W3 map lately.

Make one ladder instead of two would help as well.

@Sky no ques on HOD is happening as well that does not mean there are not people that would WvW it only means people are not.

I really don`t know how this thread started as a war between Australian player and everyone else on US server. This problem is much bigger then few servers on the US side and it affects EU servers aswell.

You guys need to look at the bigger picture, because this problem with nightcapping is only part of the problem and I will try to explain to everyone why it is so using some simple maths and some really rough estimates.

So here is my easy example:

Total points that you can gain from all zones (Eternal Battlegrounds + 3 Borderlands ) is 695.

Now I will do my estimate based on 24 hour period (will split it also into two equal parts of 12 hour period) just to show how points are actually not representing actual state of things and how unfair points are being distributed.

Server A: High Population, Low night activity
Server B: High Population, Low night activity
Server C High Population, High night activity

So our three servers will fight during 12 hours, all three server will have queues and battle will be back and forth, at the end of our 12 hour cycle this is how the points are distributed on average:

Server A: 320 Points X 48 ticks = 15360 Points Total
Server B: 200 Points X 48 ticks = 9600 Points Total
Server C: 175 points X 48 ticks = 8400 Points Total

Now our three server will fight for another 12 hours, but this will be a fight during night, when majority of players are sleeping and only one server (Server C) has enough people to do anything worth mentioning in WvW. At the end of this 12 hour cycle this is how the points are distributed on average:

Server A: 120 Points X 48 ticks = 5760 Points Total
Server B: 75 Points X 48 ticks = 3600 Points Total
Server C: 500 points X 48 ticks = 24000 Points Total

So there we go, we can now count what happened after one full day of fighting (24 hours or 96 ticks of points):

Server A: 21120 Points Total
Server B: 13200 Points Total
Server C: 32400 Points Total

So now our server C, that did not do very well in WvW is 10 000 points + in the lead of other two servers and they can thank it only to high late night population. So they did not organize very good, they did not hit key points when it was needed, their PVP kills are probably pathetic, no siege weapons were harmed and still they are winning. Now if you would loop this story you can clearly see how there is no way of comeback for other two servers, because all servers will at some point have same population, but at some point one server will outnumber the other two by a lot.

They need to tie point gained to outmanning other server or to being outmanned, this is the only way to make WvW more fair and give every server a chance to win by actually being good and not nightcapping. Also outmanned buff needs to be completely revised because having extra exp., karma and item gain when fighting 2 vs. 10 is not really helpful to anyone.

Veles.5289:

snip

In your example, the next day server A and server B should be ignoring each other and picking on server C to regain lost ground…so the solution is in their own hands. This is just an example of poor tactics, and misdirected opportunism (lack of ambition) to only reach #2 position on 3 server fight. Put simply, they give up and scramble for #2 position and fight each other for that place.

lollie.5816:

Veles.5289:

snip

In your example, the next day server B and server C should be ignoring each other and picking on server A to regain lost ground…so the solution is in their own hands.

Theoretically, yes.

Practically – during those “more active” 12 hours servers A and B will fight hard, and will probably get their corner back. It is very unlikely they will gain anything more than that, because they are very far behind in supply/upgrades/siege.
And they will not have time to catch up in those departments before the “second shift” comes around again.

It is a snowball that turns into an avalanche. People have experienced it so much with no hope for any different outcome that it is difficult to fill up W3 maps anymore.

If ANet’s data matches my personal experience with the queues lately, I imagine they will see this direct effect quantified.

lollie.5816:

Veles.5289:

snip

In your example, the next day server A and server B should be ignoring each other and picking on server C to regain lost ground…so the solution is in their own hands. This is just an example of poor tactics, and misdirected opportunism (lack of ambition) to only reach #2 position on 3 server fight. Put simply, they give up and scramble for #2 position and fight each other for that place.

Because we have amazing opportunities when we wanna talk to other servers and by the way you still missed the whole point: Nothing that you do will be enough to catch up with nightcapping server.

Veles with your example A & B just need to wipe C off during their play times to help even things out.

I really think making ONE ladder will fix a lot of the problems, mixing the EU with the NA will give more servers 24 hour coverage.

There is no way to make war 100 percent fair but mixing the different play times will help balance out more servers.

For all the people that think when they are not playing the other servers should not be able to score points this has no chance of working.

SPvP works that way, but a war that last two weeks you really can not pick times that fighting does not count or counts less.

Veles.5289:

snip.

The point is – it’s lack of ambition and lack of direction that’s the issue here.

lollie.5816:

Veles.5289:

snip

In your example, the next day server A and server B should be ignoring each other and picking on server C to regain lost ground…so the solution is in their own hands. This is just an example of poor tactics, and misdirected opportunism (lack of ambition) to only reach #2 position on 3 server fight. Put simply, they give up and scramble for #2 position and fight each other for that place.

And to address your addendum directly:

Yes, people are giving up. They are doing it because there is not enough time in their play schedule to even fully regain what they lose every single night (or day, or whenever it happens).

A lot of us still go and fight just for the pleasure of fighting. But we’ve given up on winning, too. It ceases to be a large scale game of strategy and tactics, and becomes a game of large PvP battles with interesting terrain. Still fun, but is it really what WvWvW was supposed to be?

Binafus.8153:

Veles with your example A & B just need to wipe C off during their play times to help even things out.

I really think making ONE ladder will fix a lot of the problems, mixing the EU with the NA will give more servers 24 hour coverage.

There is no way to make war 100 percent fair but mixing the different play times will help balance out more servers.

For all the people that think when they are not playing the other servers should not be able to score points this has no chance of working.

SPvP works that way, but a war that last two weeks you really can not pick times that fighting does not count or counts less.

I agree with everything you said, with one small exception.

“Veles with your example A & B just need to wipe C off during their play times to help even things out.”

Except it doesn’t work that way. A & B can go full bore into C, but they will not wipe C off the map because C has had many MANY hours to upgrade and stock up, in addition to pinning A & B in their spawns.

Recapping during the “day” will never equal all-capping during the “night”. It doesn’t work.

Sky.9347:

lollie.5816:

Veles.5289:

snip

In your example, the next day server A and server B should be ignoring each other and picking on server C to regain lost ground…so the solution is in their own hands. This is just an example of poor tactics, and misdirected opportunism (lack of ambition) to only reach #2 position on 3 server fight. Put simply, they give up and scramble for #2 position and fight each other for that place.

Yes, people are giving up…is it really what WvWvW was supposed to be?

Don’t need to add more, same as above – they should be directing their efforts better, and that’s what WvW is supposed to be about .

lollie.5816:

Don’t need to add more, same as above – they should be directing their efforts better, and that’s what WvW is supposed to be about .

Any pvp design pinning its hope of balance on player behavior is doomed to an utter, miserable failure.
This is not any news; any game designer worth of the title knows this and has known this for at least the last 15 years. There is really no excuse anymore.

Veles.5289:

..

Btw Veles even though I agree with your points, it’s move severe than you have objected. On medium/low bracket matches of EU, 20-30 man difference at off-time decides who’s going to win the match.

So C doesn’t have to have a high night population. Servers with similar populations finish the match with large gaps on score, primarily due to ninja-sleep-capping and lack of motivation afterwards.

Underworld won against Ring of Fire that way, Ring of Fire winning against Piken Square same way. And Gandara is now winning with a huge score difference against Underworld

Gandara, Underworld, Ring of Fire and Piken Square are pretty competitive against each other when maps are full. And if you check the rankings they are all one after another. However matches involving those servers finishes with huge score differences.

Binafus.8153

Veles with your example A & B just need to wipe C off during their play times to help even things out.

Then Anet must give us the tools to be able to communicate with people, such as commanders are able to talk with commanders from other server or something of the sort.

And again you missed the point, even if they team up lets say that both servers gank on C and the results during day are something like this:

Server A: 370 Points X 48 ticks = 17760 Points Total
Server B: 275 Points X 48 ticks = 13200 Points Total
Server C: 50 points X 48 ticks = 2400 Points Total

So after the 2nd peak-time fight the end results are this:

Server A: 21120 + 17760 = 38880 Points Total
Server B: 13200 + 13200 = 26400 Points Total
Server C: 32400 + 2400 = 34800 Points Total

And then we have the 2nd shift which will make it be:

Server A: 38880 + 5760 = 44640 Points Total
Server B: 26400 + 3600 = 30000 Points Total
Server C: 34800 + 24000 = 58800 Points Total

I hope you get the point now ? Thus Veles was very generous since nightcapping usually ends up with literally 100% of the map on the hands of the high night population server, or like someone said, the server with a night crew.

This is pure math to be honest. And its far to easy to see the problem here, but i bet lollie.5816 and Binafus.8153 are from the zerg servers afraid of having a fair fight as per usual. Let me just tell you this, competitive games are competitive simple because they have very low unbalanced or none.

MagnusLL.8473:

lollie.5816:

Don’t need to add more, same as above – they should be directing their efforts better, and that’s what WvW is supposed to be about .

Any pvp design pinning its hope of balance on player behavior is doomed to an utter, miserable failure.
This is not any news; any game designer worth of the title knows this and has known this for at least the last 15 years. There is really no excuse anymore.

Three group pvp is supposed to produce cooperation. If that fails then nothing will work.

lollie.5816:

Sky.9347:

lollie.5816:

Veles.5289:

snip

In your example, the next day server A and server B should be ignoring each other and picking on server C to regain lost ground…so the solution is in their own hands. This is just an example of poor tactics, and misdirected opportunism (lack of ambition) to only reach #2 position on 3 server fight. Put simply, they give up and scramble for #2 position and fight each other for that place.

Yes, people are giving up…is it really what WvWvW was supposed to be?

Don’t need to add more, same as above – they should be directing their efforts better, and that’s what WvW is supposed to be about .

Okay man, I don’t think you understand.

This isn’t 24 amazing teams of equally interested PvP teams fighting. This is the entire NA server population.

You might have all the guts and glory necessary. Your guild and/or server might be the coolest, most pro, legendary WvW players ever known to GW2. You have never experienced this situation, since you are so awesome and your server had all the foresight and wit cornered, thus enabling you to prepare an international server (NA, Oceanic, Asian, EU) which can not be beaten.

Unless you want to be playing WvW by yourself within the month, I suggest you pay attention to the OTHER TWENTY THREE servers.

The problem is ANet created a game mode that REQUIRES 24/7 globe spanning servers in order to enjoy (read: have a fun, contested, competitive match), but then broke the server pool into two groups based on geography.

WvWvW has already begun to be much less popular (not among your kind, you PvP god you), and many servers can no longer fill up maps even though they have the population to do so during their prime time.

You can ignore it and say “they just aren’t as kitten or hardcore as me and my buddies, HAHAHA NOOBZORS” while W3 dies a slow death, or you can understand the situation and attempt to influence the discussion towards your preferred solution.

lollie.5816:

Don’t need to add more, same as above – they should be directing their efforts better, and that’s what WvW is supposed to be about .

Lollie, I’m pretty certain you also have feeling in your gut saying it’s a lost cause. However for one reason or another you decide to ignore it.

I wish you were right, however past experience show that, players can’t fix problems of game design by themselves.

lollie.5816:

Three group pvp is supposed to produce cooperation. If that fails then nothing will work.

Wanna bet?

“whoever caps a control point in the last hour of the match gains 1 million on the score”.
There. 2 weeks matches completely balanced and fully exciting until the last hour, no dependence on player behavior.

(Now before anyone points out: yes I fully understand this design is lousy as well; it’s just an extremely heavy-handed example of system-enforced balance who doesn’t depend in the slightest on player behavior).

@ped if you beat someone down over and over they tend to quit showing up, so it gets easier to beat server C and more people come to your server to help.

Last week ET and SBI were ahead after four and a half days and said they were not even teaming up on HOD.

HOD passed ET and SBI both in Prime Time NA, it was not in the middle of the night, granted we gained ground during the night.

It seems if they would have kept it up HOD would have lost last week, beat them a couple weeks people transfer to your server and now your the one that has the advantage.

As you always point out to me this is a talk about how to fix things where more servers can be competitive.

I offer up combine the EU and NA servers as the best solution and second best is the number 2 and 3 teams in the matchup tag team the number one.

Third don’t allow transfers to the top 20 percent of the servers.

Fourth give a buff for Exp/Karma/Gold to the bottom 20 percent.

As far as tools TS, Vent, Mumble just make a joint one between the servers that are tag teaming, divide the maps up in half and get after it.

There is a lot of fighting besides the top three servers in Guild Wars 2 these solutions will help at all levels.

Binafus.8153:

@ped if you beat someone down over and over they tend to quit showing up, so it gets easier to beat server C and more people come to your server to help.

Last week ET and SBI were ahead after four and a half days and said they were not even teaming up on HOD.

HOD passed ET and SBI both in Prime Time NA, it was not in the middle of the night, granted we gained ground during the night.

It seems if they would have kept it up HOD would have lost last week, beat them a couple weeks people transfer to your server and now your the one that has the advantage.

As you always point out to me this is a talk about how to fix things where more servers can be competitive.

I offer up combine the EU and NA servers as the best solution and second best is the number 2 and 3 teams in the matchup tag team the number one.

Third don’t allow transfers to the top 20 percent of the servers.

Fourth give a buff for Exp/Karma/Gold to the bottom 20 percent.

As far as tools TS, Vent, Mumble just make a joint one between the servers that are tag teaming, divide the maps up in half and get after it.

There is a lot of fighting besides the top three servers in Guild Wars 2 these solutions will help at all levels.

And I got my answer to why arguing with you is pointless… You play on bestest server ever that employed bestest tactic ever: “Gais, lets recruit player all over the world, so we win can while we are not even playing and then boast how super cool grubers we are!!!”

There are 23 other server besides HOD and you actually male small portion of overall WvW community, so get off from your high horse and actually read what other people (that don`t have 24/7) coverage have to say about point system in WvW.

Binafus.8153:

@ped if you beat someone down over and over they tend to quit showing up, so it gets easier to beat server C and more people come to your server to help.

Last week ET and SBI were ahead after four and a half days and said they were not even teaming up on HOD.

HOD passed ET and SBI both in Prime Time NA, it was not in the middle of the night, granted we gained ground during the night.

It seems if they would have kept it up HOD would have lost last week, beat them a couple weeks people transfer to your server and now your the one that has the advantage.

As you always point out to me this is a talk about how to fix things where more servers can be competitive.

I offer up combine the EU and NA servers as the best solution and second best is the number 2 and 3 teams in the matchup tag team the number one.

Third don’t allow transfers to the top 20 percent of the servers.

Fourth give a buff for Exp/Karma/Gold to the bottom 20 percent.

As far as tools TS, Vent, Mumble just make a joint one between the servers that are tag teaming, divide the maps up in half and get after it.

There is a lot of fighting besides the top three servers in Guild Wars 2 these solutions will help at all levels.

First bold line:

HoD went from lowest PPT to +550 overnight.
Their total SCORE actually surpassed SBI during prime time, since both SBI and ET were clawing their way back onto the map. Their PPT was declining, but it was still far above both SBI and ET.

This was disingenuous. In fact, this is something politicians do all the time. The way you go back and reword history so that it is technically true, but doesn’t actually represent the situation is a kitten thing to do.

Second bold line:

I agree.

Please try convince me that the “Oh, just double-team on the zergy server at night time to win” works. I just provided numbers evidence on my previous post using Veles’s example. So your excuse is vanished as a solution.

pedrst.3127

Then Anet must give us the tools to be able to communicate with people, such as commanders are able to talk with commanders from other server or something of the sort.
And again you missed the point, even if they team up lets say that both servers gank on C and the results during day are something like this:
Server A: 370 Points X 48 ticks = 17760 Points Total
Server B: 275 Points X 48 ticks = 13200 Points Total
Server C: 50 points X 48 ticks = 2400 Points Total
So after the 2nd peak-time fight the end results are this:
Server A: 21120 + 17760 = 38880 Points Total
Server B: 13200 + 13200 = 26400 Points Total
Server C: 32400 + 2400 = 34800 Points Total
And then we have the 2nd shift which will make it be:
Server A: 38880 + 5760 = 44640 Points Total
Server B: 26400 + 3600 = 30000 Points Total
Server C: 34800 + 24000 = 58800 Points Total
I hope you get the point now ? Thus Veles was very generous since nightcapping usually ends up with literally 100% of the map on the hands of the high night population server, or like someone said, the server with a night crew.
This is pure math to be honest. And its far to easy to see the problem here, but i bet lollie.5816 and Binafus.8153 are from the zerg servers afraid of having a fair fight as per usual. Let me just tell you this, competitive games are competitive simple because they have very low unbalanced or none.

@ Veles – yes HOD did recruit guilds so we would have a 24 hour coverage. I find it hard to believe we were the only ones that thought hey this is a 24 hour war for 14 days in order to win we need people that can fight around the clock.

Our numbers have grown greatly since the start though, by winning more people keep coming to our server.

I have never once acted like I was not from HOD, I want some good competition.

I offer up ways to fix the problem not just argue.

NO transfers to the top 20 percent.

Combine the EU and NA ladders, more servers will end up with 24 hour coverage.

It is a three way match the bottom two should tag team the top one, this is the players fault if they are not currently doing this.

Give the bottom 20 percent servers a Gold/Karma/Exp buff.

If you do not want a 24 hour war then WvWvW is not for you.

“It is a three way match the bottom two should tag team the top one, this is the players fault if they are not currently doing this.”

I just mathematically explained it is not possible.

Second point is that having a fairer “point rewarding” system will not injure a high populated all-around-the-clock server. They will still have the advantage. It is just SIMPLE to balance the points earned with and without PvP.

Why is it so hard to understand ?

Binafus.8153:

@ Veles – yes HOD did recruit guilds so we would have a 24 hour coverage. I find it hard to believe we were the only ones that thought hey this is a 24 hour war for 14 days in order to win we need people that can fight around the clock.

Our numbers have grown greatly since the start though, by winning more people keep coming to our server.

I have never once acted like I was not from HOD, I want some good competition.

I offer up ways to fix the problem not just argue.

NO transfers to the top 20 percent.

Combine the EU and NA ladders, more servers will end up with 24 hour coverage.

It is a three way match the bottom two should tag team the top one, this is the players fault if they are not currently doing this.

Give the bottom 20 percent servers a Gold/Karma/Exp buff.

If you do not want a 24 hour war then WvWvW is not for you.

My guild was offered to join TA, which would put us on HOD, my answer was: I would never join US server so I can PvKeeps like a scrub, when all good fighting is happening during US prime time.

I still stand by that and if more people were actually willing to PVP more then cap empty objectives we would not have this conversation.

Ohhh and by the way, you are still missing the main point of my initial post… Unbelivable.

Binafus.8153:

@ Veles – yes HOD did recruit guilds so we would have a 24 hour coverage. I find it hard to believe we were the only ones that thought hey this is a 24 hour war for 14 days in order to win we need people that can fight around the clock.

Our numbers have grown greatly since the start though, by winning more people keep coming to our server.

I have never once acted like I was not from HOD, I want some good competition.

I offer up ways to fix the problem not just argue.

NO transfers to the top 20 percent.

Combine the EU and NA ladders, more servers will end up with 24 hour coverage.

It is a three way match the bottom two should tag team the top one, this is the players fault if they are not currently doing this.

Give the bottom 20 percent servers a Gold/Karma/Exp buff.

If you do not want a 24 hour war then WvWvW is not for you.

Combining ladders: we agree.
Top 20%: based on what? The fact that HoD has it’s 24 hour coverage, so no need for anyone else in the top 20% to shore up their weak hours?
Bottom 20%: Gold/karma/exp bonuses aren’t going to fix this.
2 v 1: It DOES NOT WORK. It has been tried, and the “night” capping is more powerful than being 2v1’d.

2v1 would actually work IF the motherkittening scoring system would be balanced towards PvP, and not towards PvE capping. This is the main issue at hand.

@ Ped

I’m not giving you numbers I’m giving you an actual case of it last week ET and SBI vs HOD they were winning after four days.

They were mainly focusing on HOD but were still fighting each other some, if they would have divided all four maps in half and not gave up I feel they would have put HOD in third for the week and think most of SBI and ET players can see this.

I tossed out four solutions that would help.

I want some good competition.