Waypoints too easy to contest

Waypoints too easy to contest

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Posted by: morrolan.9608

morrolan.9608

Can we please have the door’s on the keeps/SM take more than an enemy looking at them funny to contest?

Yep this is extremely annoying.

Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

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Posted by: penatbater.4710

penatbater.4710

Can we please have the door’s on the keeps/SM take more than an enemy looking at them funny to contest?

Yep this is extremely annoying.

Maybe they need to take around 2000 damage before arrows showing up?

Don’t disturb me, I have a cat in me at the moment.

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Posted by: Xavi.6591

Xavi.6591

if you don’t like having to watch SM to make sure it is not actually being attacked then simply don’t take SM.

Fantasme Bloodwen [R.I.P. Mesmer] | Andi Runi [Warrior] | Bonedoggle [Necro] | Zooerasty [Ranger]
Angry Intent [AI] | Yak’s Bend |

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Posted by: frostshade.3617

frostshade.3617

This is what scouts r for

commander frostseir(sylvari,guardian) commander frostetics(norn,ele)
Os guild

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Posted by: Feed Me Change.6528

Feed Me Change.6528

Any tank class or build can tag SM/Keeps just as easy as a thief. This isn’t a thief thread, go put your comments in the Flavor of the Week Nerf Thief Thread.

Agreed. This is like stopping all imports to a castle because 1 person threw a rock at the wall… completely stupid and needs a change.

NSP>ET>SoS>BG>ET>SoS>JQ>SoS>Mag>JQ
My fun laughs at your server pride.

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Posted by: Piteous.4165

Piteous.4165

I’ve seen a good Thief get a way from 15 people before and he wasn’t always in stealth, just being able to see him doesn’t mean you are going to kill him.

Blackgate
Stay frosty! Keep it tight!

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Posted by: King Amadaeus.8619

King Amadaeus.8619

Hold on her people most are missing the point… explain to me why it requires a purchased consumable and supply just to counter a game mechanic? That would be the equivalent of forcing people to buy a consumable in order to strip retaliation.

I don’t think this is as much of a (thief) game mechanic issue, as it is a general issue with gates….Like it has been suggested 500 million times: “contested” shouldn’t occur until a set percentage (for instance) of damage is done to it, to prevent “tappers”.

Also I never felt as though anti-stealth traps were implemented for countering the thief mechanic stealth in general….Rather I feel it was more of a situational use:

IE: Breached wall, you see the enemy stack, lay down anti-stealth in the breached area to catch the incoming Mesmer that is trying to portal them in.

Or

IE: Thief and Mesmer hold up in a captured point, so you lay one down and run them over it so they cannot hide out.

In short, I always associated the traps somehow actually relating back to portaling mesmers more than just open field combat strategies to kill random thieves.

Mag Server Leader

(edited by King Amadaeus.8619)

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Posted by: Tenebrous.2451

Tenebrous.2451

Hold on her people most are missing the point… explain to me why it requires a purchased consumable and supply just to counter a game mechanic? That would be the equivalent of forcing people to buy a consumable in order to strip retaliation.

This guy has it.

Thursday Tenebrous – Necro * Sunday Tenebrous – Hunter
Tenebrous Fivetree – Guardian
Zelots of Shiverpeaks (ZoS) – Northern Shiverpeaks

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Posted by: King Amadaeus.8619

King Amadaeus.8619

Hold on her people most are missing the point… explain to me why it requires a purchased consumable and supply just to counter a game mechanic? That would be the equivalent of forcing people to buy a consumable in order to strip retaliation.

This guy has it.

Yeah he is ate up with it for sure.

Mag Server Leader

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Posted by: zerorogue.9410

zerorogue.9410

I do like the idea of traps, however I do believe they should have been added similar to blueprint. (similar cost, similar sell areas.) In fact traps where on my list of suggestions for wvw, although mine took a more devious route.

The traps I had ideal-ed, where more costly in supply, more powerful, and multi-use.
Essentially you build them like blueprints add supply then they cloak and wait for a trigger. once triggered it takes 15 seconds of no damage(to or from) to re-cloak.

I had three in mind..
RazorWire Trap: 40 supply. bleeding and crippling.
Pitch Trap: 40 supply. burning.
Black Powder Minefield : 50 supply. damage and launching.

A black powder minefield in front of a gate would make short work of anyone wanting to hit it, as they would have to destroy the trap before they could hit the gate.

Thinking further into it. If traps could be bought with gold, we may see more on the battlefield, although it does boil down to the fact its 15 badges to kill someone once. In most cases it would never be wanted or used.

Id rather have a sticky trap that prevents people from moving or escaping using stun breakers. You hit the sticky trap, you get stuck for 5 seconds, no way out.

It does just go down to the fact the door needs a longer time to contest. 2,000 damage is a good number for this.

On the thought of locking a way point, it does seem like a good tactic for outnumbered servers to balance the game. If there can be some way to actively combat the problem I think It can be added to WvW as a good mechanic.

Perhaps having waypoints not lock when contested. rather you have to setup a Waypoint Jammer, somewhere near the base (where you get the status event). This way players can hunt down the jammer and destroy it to remove the waypoint. Although, it would add another objective for players when sieging keeps.

Any of these ideas would require a lot more thought before implementation. Perhaps some anet dev will read this and get a better idea than these

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Posted by: lilcoffeebean.3149

lilcoffeebean.3149

Agree gates should require a certain % of damage before popping swords.

Please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion.
Let’s not bicker and argue over who killed who.
Lilcoffeebean~Yak’s Bend~Perfect Dark [PD]

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Posted by: Hickeroar.9734

Hickeroar.9734

Thief contesting is annoying, yes, but it’s also a solid, valid tactic. I have no problem with it. Every class has some kind of skill that makes it better in some situation, somehow. Thieves are perfect roamers and escape artists. They’re also squishy. /shrug

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Posted by: BlackBeard.2873

BlackBeard.2873

Yea, there isn’t really a counter to a thief that doesn’t want to be caught, even by 15 people. And to anyone suggesting stealth traps, remember this: the makitten mall. Is spending 15 badges worth killing said thief once when he can be right back again in 2-3 minutes?

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Posted by: Ahmrill.7512

Ahmrill.7512

Very easy to fix and used in other MMO’s successfully.

- Section takes 5-10% damage
- Certain number of enemies are in the area.

Waypoint is contested if one or both conditions are activated. No more single player tagging.

Ahmrill
Proud member of [NORD] Nordvegr Guild
Jade Quarry

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Posted by: Sleel.8365

Sleel.8365

How is that trolling, sounds like smart play. You had a way to counter him with the stealth traps and you and your server decided not to use them at all. I agree that thief mobility/stealth is ridiculous but thats your own fault for letting him contest your nodes like that, he simply outplayed you and 15 other people.

Because hitting a door with a dagger is dumb kitten coding. Nothing should contest a WP but siege hitting the door/wall. You aren’t actually sieging a keep? You don’t get to contest the WP. Hell, if I was lame enough to consider this fun I could do it with my thief/main. I don’t tho, not even one of those poof I’m gone thieves. Prefer the mobility dance. More dangerous, more fun tho.

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Posted by: Esprit Dumort.3109

Esprit Dumort.3109

Thieves are by no means the only class able to this with ease. Mesmers can, I do it all the time. One of the safer ways: set your Portal away in a secluded area, run to the gate casting Mass Invisibility, having it activate just in range of the guards, Sword 2 on the gate as you set your exit portal and before the attack finishes you can portal out without being touched.

Elementalists are easy too. RTL to the gate, damage, use Lightning Flash and Mist Form to make an easy escape. Staff works with Earth 3 to reflect projectiles, and Fire 2 for safety, Lightning Flash and Mist Form for easy escape.

I’m sure all classes can do it. Thieves probably have the least skill bar modification, but if your intent is to tag, chances are you are not planning to fight either. WP out and return to the fight… by then your Utils will be recharged and you can swap them back to normal. Rangers can just send pets in as decoy and longbow it. Necro has Spectral Walk. Warriors and Guardians can take the damage and hit the gate.

As the mechanic isn’t limited by class, I hope it’s not changed.

Jessamine [SNOW]
Gandara

(edited by Esprit Dumort.3109)

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Posted by: Death Card.2904

Death Card.2904

Can we please have the door’s on the keeps/SM take more than an enemy looking at them funny to contest?

Today, I encountered an enemy theif who build their entire build to do one thing. Hit the gates to contest them.

He would run between stonemyst and our keep contesting them keeping our waypoints from being used.

The problem? No one could stop him. We had upwards to 15 players hunting him down and he would teleport/stealth/stunbreak/swiftness away. That’s just ridiculous. I know you want theifs mobile but when 15 players cannot kill him?

Stealth traps? Apparently no one wanted to use them. The idea was floated in the chat but no one bothered to buy any.

I don’t think it takes a genius to see if one player could permanently lock 2 way-points Its overpowered.

EDIT:
In case you don’t want to read;
-Keep’s and Stonemist are contested too easy.
-An minimum damage requirement is needed.
-Traps are too expensive to use on one person who can re-spawn quickly.

Please keep the discussion to those points

You see how he quoted that “Keeps and Stonemist are contested tooo easy” and ’Traps are to expensive on someone who can RESPAWN QUICKLY"? He is not exactly asking you to tell him off because they are to lazy to place a trap, READ HIS LAST POINTS!!!! They are expensive and the thief can just respawn and do it all over again, The problem is that things are contested to easily, and I totally agree with the damage minimum. What I dont like about the 30 second thing now is that they could mow a door down with 5 golems and they are already at inner before someone can say “whats going on at Bay?”

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Posted by: zerorogue.9410

zerorogue.9410

You see how he quoted that “Keeps and Stonemist are contested tooo easy” and ‘Traps are to expensive on someone who can RESPAWN QUICKLY"? He is not exactly asking you to tell him off because they are to lazy to place a trap, READ HIS LAST POINTS!!!! They are expensive and the thief can just respawn and do it all over again, The problem is that things are contested to easily, and I totally agree with the damage minimum. What I don’t like about the 30 second thing now is that they could mow a door down with 5 golems and they are already at inner before someone can say “whats going on at Bay?”

Thank You, It’s unfortunate that some read only the first few lines then think they know everything that was said.

what you speak of is the other side of the problem. If they do implement some sort of a delay on the walls/doors if a big attack comes will the delay cost the position?

I have been thinking about this and here’s what I have came up with I believe this should be very easy to implement while fixing the problem

-If the Health of any door/wall goes below X% hp. any damage will contest the objective.
- X is approx 1 hit from lowest damaging siege item. (so any siege damage will contest it automatically.)
-While the objective is below the threshold any damage will still contest it. (its up to the defenders to repair and gain the immunity back.)

Does that sound good to everyone? Can anyone see any problems with this?

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Posted by: Helly.2597

Helly.2597

In my opinion, a vocal group of people here are calling for a change to a single class for an issue that exists, as other people mentioned, outside just a single class.

Nerf thieves cause they can hit the door and get away? If you die to those npcs on a keep your play is what needs to change. As far as the complaint saying you weren’t able to catch the thief even with 15 people goes, this is a bit of a tactical error on your part. If you had 15 people, you could easily have guarded each door to a keep with ~5 people. Why chase after the guy in a clump (which is just what a good thief would want) instead of just waiting at the doors and destroying him as he approached? And don’t say you couldn’t do this due to stealth being overpowered or magic or omg he has stunbreaks idk how to kill someone whos build has stunbreaks even when I had 15* people with me, since with a small bit of strategy you should be able to spread out and look for the thief and find him.

Lastly, I agree with the idea of swords only appearing at a set percentage for the gate, however, an issue with this would be in how it got implemented. Would the swords appear only for a period of time after the door has been hit below a certain percentage (kind of like now but door has to be 90% or something) or would if a door is below a certain percentage swords will always appear (which would be a very misfortunate bug/problem with this idea)

Going off of the last thing I mentioned above, someone cited before that if this was a real situation having your doors hit wouldn’t cause you to sound the alarm. However, with this idea/thinking, as long as a structure isn’t completely repaired it would/should have swords on it, since if a door is at 20%, even if the enemy has been pushed out mostly, I would be sounding the alarm still. So such thinking cuts both ways.

People call me Hobo.
Violent Tendency [vT]
Ferguson’s Crossing Roamer

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Posted by: dzeRnumbrd.6129

dzeRnumbrd.6129

Enjoy your walk.

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Posted by: DeadlySynz.3471

DeadlySynz.3471

Have mesmers use/chain Moa Morph > burst him down

Use a lot of CC, like guardian weapon skills.

Place stealth traps in front of each gate.

Stealth traps? Apparently no one wanted to use them. The idea was floated in the chat but no one bothered to buy any.

Isn’t that your problem then? ANet has literally given you something to help in a situation and your server refused to use it. I have no pity for you guys despite agreeing that it should tap more than tap to contest a wp.

Going into stealth costs nothing. Traps cost 15 badges (and do hold some value). In the time it’d take to kill the thief, for him to respawn, and hike it back from the WP to his intended target, the WP he’s contesting will not have dropped its swords.

Yeah…

… Which is why you then bunker down, drop some ranger traps, send out some scouts, and murder every rabbit that comes within 100 yards of your keep.

This sounds like a wonderful.. waste of resources. This is no different than half a zerg breaking apart to chase 1 person they probably aren’t going to catch, completely inefficient and a waste of time. How efficient is it, to send a bunch of scouts after 1 player that could be better served helping larger objectives elsewhere in an environment where sheer numbers matter. Especially now that the siege is bugged out.

I don’t understand where people get off thinking stealth traps were specifically designed for thieves, they were not. There are better served uncovering veils. Sure the stealth trap can uncover a thief (if the stars align and your lucky); you can also technically send 1 person to PVDoor a re-enforced door. Neither of these scenarios are an efficient use of time, and will really get you no where.

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Posted by: Gwalchgwn.1659

Gwalchgwn.1659

There is another choice besides the trap.
75 points in Arrow Cart Mastery will get you:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Toxic_Unveiling_Shot

Even that won’t stop the Thief haters though. Next they’ll complain that several thieves are attacking different gates.

Indeed, it doesn’t take a thief to contest a keep or tower. Any class can do it and SM in particular is difficult to cover all gates at all times.

The fault is certainly with the “one tap to contest” mechanic and NOT the Thief.

Wow, didn’t even know there was this on AC’s… I’m so not going near any enemy AC anymore…

Ring of Fire
GL – “The Afternoon’s Watch” [OATH]

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Posted by: AndrewSX.3794

AndrewSX.3794

While i think that it’s a valid tactic (we need more stuff like that in wvw to make it less mindless zerging), i agree that is kinda frustrating when your server can’t port anywhere due to a single person on the other side, hitting a gate with a dagger who makes the whole keep going it “Omfg enemy is on us bunker bunker bunkerrrrr!”.

Also, Thieves are just working as intended in that sense. Evasive, uncatchable and hitting behind the frontlines (after all, they’re quite bad in zerg battles).

A decent solution could be changing a bit the numbers (let’s say, at least 5 ppl hitting doors before all things shutting down) or the timing/system (WP will shut down only if…).

Just change it so a single thief can’t contest a WP (but the keep yes) anymore ALONE, and things would be sorted.

Seafarer’s Rest EU – PvE/WvW – 8 × 80 chars.
Most used: Guard/Mes/War/Nec/Ele.
Yes, i use 5 chars at time. Because REASONS.

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Posted by: Olvendred.3027

Olvendred.3027

I’d have it as, a gate or wall needs to take a certain percentage of damage within a period of, say 15s, for the objective to become contested. And that damage would be about .5%-1% (5-10% is wayyy too high, for obvious reasons). It can’t be “siege weapons hitting” because, as the last couple of days have shown, you don’t need siege weapons to take down a paper gate.

The problem on the other side, of course, is what happens if you breach the outer wall of a WP’d keep… but then have to spend a few minutes fighting players before you can lay down siege to hit gates or walls? This isn’t exactly uncommon. It basically means the keep will go uncontested, and the enemy will be allowed to freely WP back inside, and no real way for the attackers to re-contest, except (unnecessarily) dropping siege and occupying a lot of players/supply to damage more of outer.

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Posted by: Iavra.8510

Iavra.8510

Just change it to be based on the amount of damage the keep/tower already got. Let’s say the waypoint gets contested if a wall/door has been damaged by ~1-2% (numbers to be adjusted, has to be low enough to give defenders enough time to arrive). But, in exchange to this, the event never stops until all walls/doors have been fixed up to this point. This will also stop zergs being able to port in between defense events.

Also, they have to get rid of that stupid 30s timer before an objective is marked as contested <.<

/edit: Also needed: Make doors completely immune against every damage not done by siege and limit the amount of golems per map per server to 5. (On further thought…just making doors immune against player damage could be enough).

(edited by Iavra.8510)

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Posted by: Dayra.7405

Dayra.7405

WPs are always protected by 2 lines of walls. I see absolutely no reason why any kind of attack on the outer wall should block it.

Use this
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Why-is-SM-waypoint-contested-all-the-time/1810315
instead.

Ceterum censeo SFR esse delendam!

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Posted by: Navzar.2938

Navzar.2938

The problem is about how easy it is to contest a keep, not about thieves. The fix would obviously be around the contesting mechanic anyway, rather than a single one of the eight professions that can do this (so thieves, you can stop whining about a legitimate concern as well).