Guild Wars 2

The truth of the matter at hand is that this will be a divisive issue because the people benefiting from the status quo will fight to maintain it. The weak arguments about people coordinating beforehand only apply to servers in the very top tier, such as Eredon Terrace or Henge of Denravi. Those servers are so populated that people cannot even get into WvW. The expansion servers and other low population servers face a very different scenario, and it is obvious from the majority of the posts on this issue that people just do not understand how game breaking the “nightcapping” issue is. If one looks at the issue objectively it is easy to see that the system is flawed unless the server happens to be ideally populated with a mix of world time zones. The issue has to be fixed voluntarily by the player base (doubtful…..I don’t exactly see EU or Oceanic guilds lining up to transfer to Devonas Rest or Kaineng) or ArenaNet will fix it for us and those of us who would like to see the game survive and thrive will be sorely disappointed.

Cod Eye.1632:

I see both sides of the debate here, what is really interesting is the lack of response from the Devs and what feedback or solution they can give to resolve this issue.

They’re either thinking very heavily about it, or sitting back sipping wine while chuckling and wearing a top hat about “all those silly little buggers on the forums”.

It’s a pity Oceanic players all decided to clump together on a few servers instead of spreading out through all of them, Sea of Sorrows I’m looking at you.

The “night capping” situation keeps being presented as a problem because “there is nothing the prime time players can do about their gains being lost”. But the people pushing this side of the argument totally ignore the other side of the coin. What about the servers with relatively strong off peak teams who lose all their gains during prime time? Is it their fault that the prime time players aren’t organised or just plain not interested?

The simple fact is that the ranking system will fix most of the balance issues given time.

Loxingly.1068:

It’s a pity Oceanic players all decided to clump together on a few servers instead of spreading out through all of them, Sea of Sorrows I’m looking at you.

Do you not understand why Oceanic players have done this on every MMO for many, many years? We do this to ensure that there are people to play with during our prime time. If Oceanic players spread out too thinly then there aren’t enough people around to group with.

GW2 is the first game in a long time where Oceanics are actually in demand. In previous MMOs, whenever a server was designated unofficial Oceanic all the US players would run away, claiming that we would ruin the server.

So what GW2 has is a system that rewards servers were guilds from different timezones work together to achieve a common goal?
Sounds less like a problem and more like a reason to give them some award for promoting peace and international understanding :P

Tzash.5748:

The “night capping” situation keeps being presented as a problem because “there is nothing the prime time players can do about their gains being lost”. But the people pushing this side of the argument totally ignore the other side of the coin. What about the servers with relatively strong off peak teams who lose all their gains during prime time? Is it their fault that the prime time players aren’t organised or just plain not interested?

The simple fact is that the ranking system will fix most of the balance issues given time.

I think prime time is best defined by the servers most populated and active time period. If you are losing all of your gains during prime time then then the server is relatively healthily balanced as there is a tug of war occurring, which I think is the intended mechanic for WvWvW.

Blrrgh.6908:

Tzash.5748:

The “night capping” situation keeps being presented as a problem because “there is nothing the prime time players can do about their gains being lost”. But the people pushing this side of the argument totally ignore the other side of the coin. What about the servers with relatively strong off peak teams who lose all their gains during prime time? Is it their fault that the prime time players aren’t organised or just plain not interested?

The simple fact is that the ranking system will fix most of the balance issues given time.

I think prime time is best defined by the servers most populated and active time period. If you are losing all of your gains during prime time then then the server is relatively healthily balanced as there is a tug of war occurring, which I think is the intended mechanic for WvWvW.

Not quite my point. I was trying to point out that the “night capping” perspective is very one sided. Which is why the vast majority of “solutions” put forward in this forum all suggest punishing off peak players in some way.

No no no Any1 asking blocking / nerfing points or anything like that are wrong.
Australlians Asians or other time zone’s have all the rights of other time zone’s have.

But the main problem is that there arent many servers to balance diffrent time zone’s

I play in Europe and yes we play versus the French Vizunah Sqaure that does night capping.

Its lame from our PoV as both Far Shiverpeaks + desolation do not contain counters to prevent it unless we skip sleep + work

The only solution to make this more balanced is to match servers with 24/7 WvW versus other 24/7 WvW servers

Absurd people ask to block Australlian or USA brothers to play the game lolz

There just have to be made adjustments in balance ^^ problem solved

Phara Miu.2816:

No no no Any1 asking blocking / nerfing points or anything like that are wrong.
Australlians Asians or other time zone’s have all the rights of other time zone’s have.

But the main problem is that there arent many servers to balance diffrent time zone’s

I play in Europe and yes we play versus the French Vizunah Sqaure that does night capping.

Its lame from our PoV as both Far Shiverpeaks + desolation do not contain counters to prevent it unless we skip sleep + work

The only solution to make this more balanced is to match servers with 24/7 WvW versus other 24/7 WvW servers

Absurd people ask to block Australlian or USA brothers to play the game lolz

There just have to be made adjustments in balance ^^ problem solved

The balance you are asking for is called the ranking system. Just because you are playing VS now does not mean you will be playing them next week, or the week after etc.

Tzash.5748:

Blrrgh.6908:

Tzash.5748:

The “night capping” situation keeps being presented as a problem because “there is nothing the prime time players can do about their gains being lost”. But the people pushing this side of the argument totally ignore the other side of the coin. What about the servers with relatively strong off peak teams who lose all their gains during prime time? Is it their fault that the prime time players aren’t organised or just plain not interested?

The simple fact is that the ranking system will fix most of the balance issues given time.

I think prime time is best defined by the servers most populated and active time period. If you are losing all of your gains during prime time then then the server is relatively healthily balanced as there is a tug of war occurring, which I think is the intended mechanic for WvWvW.

Not quite my point. I was trying to point out that the “night capping” perspective is very one sided. Which is why the vast majority of “solutions” put forward in this forum all suggest punishing off peak players in some way.

I actually agree with you, the solution is in server balance. The only problem is that it is ultimately the choice of the players and guilds to balance the servers, and that is unrealistic for several reasons. Some people want to stay where they are because they are established, fair enough. Others want to be carried or to play on “elite” servers. Some people just want easy points. Some people don’t care about WvW at all. The ultimate result is going to be failure of WvW if the issue is not resolved in a way that makes sense for all. This has happened before in numerous games and it would be a shame if it happened to GW2.

Blrrgh.6908:

Tzash.5748:

Blrrgh.6908:

Tzash.5748:

The “night capping” situation keeps being presented as a problem because “there is nothing the prime time players can do about their gains being lost”. But the people pushing this side of the argument totally ignore the other side of the coin. What about the servers with relatively strong off peak teams who lose all their gains during prime time? Is it their fault that the prime time players aren’t organised or just plain not interested?

The simple fact is that the ranking system will fix most of the balance issues given time.

I think prime time is best defined by the servers most populated and active time period. If you are losing all of your gains during prime time then then the server is relatively healthily balanced as there is a tug of war occurring, which I think is the intended mechanic for WvWvW.

Not quite my point. I was trying to point out that the “night capping” perspective is very one sided. Which is why the vast majority of “solutions” put forward in this forum all suggest punishing off peak players in some way.

I actually agree with you, the solution is in server balance. The only problem is that it is ultimately the choice of the players and guilds to balance the servers, and that is unrealistic for several reasons. Some people want to stay where they are because they are established, fair enough. Others want to be carried or to play on “elite” servers. Some people just want easy points. Some people don’t care about WvW at all. The ultimate result is going to be failure of WvW if the issue is not resolved in a way that makes sense for all. This has happened before in numerous games and it would be a shame if it happened to GW2.

Again, that is what the ranking system will do. Hardcore WvWvW servers will move up the ranks and ultimately compete against other like minded servers while casual servers will move down and compete against other casuals.

The thing is that a ranking system doesn’t fix things overnight, you actually have to get a ranking before you can be matched against servers with similar ranks. A lot of people are just getting uptight over losing a single 7 day match, they refuse to look ahead to the next one.

Tzash.5748:

Blrrgh.6908:

Tzash.5748:

Blrrgh.6908:

Tzash.5748:

The “night capping” situation keeps being presented as a problem because “there is nothing the prime time players can do about their gains being lost”. But the people pushing this side of the argument totally ignore the other side of the coin. What about the servers with relatively strong off peak teams who lose all their gains during prime time? Is it their fault that the prime time players aren’t organised or just plain not interested?

The simple fact is that the ranking system will fix most of the balance issues given time.

I think prime time is best defined by the servers most populated and active time period. If you are losing all of your gains during prime time then then the server is relatively healthily balanced as there is a tug of war occurring, which I think is the intended mechanic for WvWvW.

Not quite my point. I was trying to point out that the “night capping” perspective is very one sided. Which is why the vast majority of “solutions” put forward in this forum all suggest punishing off peak players in some way.

I actually agree with you, the solution is in server balance. The only problem is that it is ultimately the choice of the players and guilds to balance the servers, and that is unrealistic for several reasons. Some people want to stay where they are because they are established, fair enough. Others want to be carried or to play on “elite” servers. Some people just want easy points. Some people don’t care about WvW at all. The ultimate result is going to be failure of WvW if the issue is not resolved in a way that makes sense for all. This has happened before in numerous games and it would be a shame if it happened to GW2.

Again, that is what the ranking system will do. Hardcore WvWvW servers will move up the ranks and ultimately compete against other like minded servers while casual servers will move down and compete against other casuals.

The thing is that a ranking system doesn’t fix things overnight, you actually have to get a ranking before you can be matched against servers with similar ranks. A lot of people are just getting uptight over losing a single 7 day match, they refuse to look ahead to the next one.

I agree with you and I even play on Far Shiverpeaks.
But in defense of my server, we’ve been up against Vizunah Square since a few days after headstart and we haven’t been switched out to another group since. Seeing as we’re somehow also currently the nr. 2 server in EU, I’m a bit worried the rankingsystem isn’t going to help us. But I’ll wait and see what happens this weekend. I’m hoping we’ll get some proper matchmaking going soon, for all our sakes.

Maybe NA servers with this problem should go on a Oceanic/EU recruitment drive so they have 24/7 representation for a 24/7 WvW ?

I do know that some Oz guilds foresore this happening and decided to stay clear of the prefered unnofficial Oceanic servers,so that they could have some decent competition.

Maybe the larger 200+ member Aussie guilds would consider splitting their guild onto two servers ?

I dunno,there was plenty of talk about this subject pre-release in Ausssie circles,was there for the NAs’ or EUs’ ?

Exactly Garas, that my main worry also.

Far Shiverpeaks is ranked #2
Vizunah Sqaure is ranked #1

We have been matched alot versus them and this is the 1st full week match
Friday servers get rematched for another week.

But atm i think only the number 3 gets switched and i think thats the germans of Riverside who seem to switch with Desolation each time.

So if Friday rematch is

Vizunah Sqaure
Far Shiverpeaks
Riverside

We are facing the same kitten again -_-
But it will mean massive angry mobs as we are fed up with their night crew on midweek.

We can sport a few people night playing in the weekend we have free time and no work, but come sunday night…..its all over again and back to where we are now.

I cannot see this going to end well…..

Temper.7265:

Maybe NA servers with this problem should go on a Oceanic/EU recruitment drive so they have 24/7 representation for a 24/7 WvW ?

I do know that some Oz guilds foresore this happening and decided to stay clear of the prefered unnofficial Oceanic servers,so that they could have some decent competition.

Maybe the larger 200+ member Aussie guilds would consider splitting their guild onto two servers ?

I dunno,there was plenty of talk about this subject pre-release in Ausssie circles,was there for the NAs’ or EUs’ ?

Yes this seems the only way to balance servers.

Merge USA / Europe / Australlian guilds on multiple servers.
That means WvW 24/7 like only 2 or 3 servers have now.

Maybe if Arenanet cannot balance this people need to migrate their guilds to a more allround server.

But how and wich server ?

You do not want all those guilds on 1 server…
You want them on at least 6 servers so you get to face some new oponents after each reset

This will be very hard for guilds to play out and if that discussion gets going Arenanet needs to assist on that matter by not takign away their guilds points etc etc.

It takes a combined effort of both Arenanet + Guilds from all time zone’s.
But where to play ? Europe / USA ?

So many things that can create problems

Nonsense thread. Nightcappers are killing WvW. No one is saying you can’t play or that NA is the only self entitled timezone. When the map doesnt budge during the day and people wake up the next morning to find it all a single color, there is a problem. Honestly, before making such dramatic statements do you even take the time to find out the facts or not?

Tzash.5748:

Blrrgh.6908:

Tzash.5748:

Blrrgh.6908:

Tzash.5748:

The “night capping” situation keeps being presented as a problem because “there is nothing the prime time players can do about their gains being lost”. But the people pushing this side of the argument totally ignore the other side of the coin. What about the servers with relatively strong off peak teams who lose all their gains during prime time? Is it their fault that the prime time players aren’t organised or just plain not interested?

The simple fact is that the ranking system will fix most of the balance issues given time.

I think prime time is best defined by the servers most populated and active time period. If you are losing all of your gains during prime time then then the server is relatively healthily balanced as there is a tug of war occurring, which I think is the intended mechanic for WvWvW.

Not quite my point. I was trying to point out that the “night capping” perspective is very one sided. Which is why the vast majority of “solutions” put forward in this forum all suggest punishing off peak players in some way.

I actually agree with you, the solution is in server balance. The only problem is that it is ultimately the choice of the players and guilds to balance the servers, and that is unrealistic for several reasons. Some people want to stay where they are because they are established, fair enough. Others want to be carried or to play on “elite” servers. Some people just want easy points. Some people don’t care about WvW at all. The ultimate result is going to be failure of WvW if the issue is not resolved in a way that makes sense for all. This has happened before in numerous games and it would be a shame if it happened to GW2.

Again, that is what the ranking system will do. Hardcore WvWvW servers will move up the ranks and ultimately compete against other like minded servers while casual servers will move down and compete against other casuals.

The thing is that a ranking system doesn’t fix things overnight, you actually have to get a ranking before you can be matched against servers with similar ranks. A lot of people are just getting uptight over losing a single 7 day match, they refuse to look ahead to the next one.

The ranking system is not going to fix the issue of night capping/alarm clocking. Please stop saying it.

gingertree.5062:

Tzash.5748:

Blrrgh.6908:

Tzash.5748:

Blrrgh.6908:

Tzash.5748:

The “night capping” situation keeps being presented as a problem because “there is nothing the prime time players can do about their gains being lost”. But the people pushing this side of the argument totally ignore the other side of the coin. What about the servers with relatively strong off peak teams who lose all their gains during prime time? Is it their fault that the prime time players aren’t organised or just plain not interested?

The simple fact is that the ranking system will fix most of the balance issues given time.

I think prime time is best defined by the servers most populated and active time period. If you are losing all of your gains during prime time then then the server is relatively healthily balanced as there is a tug of war occurring, which I think is the intended mechanic for WvWvW.

Not quite my point. I was trying to point out that the “night capping” perspective is very one sided. Which is why the vast majority of “solutions” put forward in this forum all suggest punishing off peak players in some way.

I actually agree with you, the solution is in server balance. The only problem is that it is ultimately the choice of the players and guilds to balance the servers, and that is unrealistic for several reasons. Some people want to stay where they are because they are established, fair enough. Others want to be carried or to play on “elite” servers. Some people just want easy points. Some people don’t care about WvW at all. The ultimate result is going to be failure of WvW if the issue is not resolved in a way that makes sense for all. This has happened before in numerous games and it would be a shame if it happened to GW2.

Again, that is what the ranking system will do. Hardcore WvWvW servers will move up the ranks and ultimately compete against other like minded servers while casual servers will move down and compete against other casuals.

The thing is that a ranking system doesn’t fix things overnight, you actually have to get a ranking before you can be matched against servers with similar ranks. A lot of people are just getting uptight over losing a single 7 day match, they refuse to look ahead to the next one.

The ranking system is not going to fix the issue of night capping/alarm clocking. Please stop saying it.

If the servers that are capable of night capping all rise and the servers that aren’t all fall then how does the ranking system not solve it?

Mubarizun.6435:

Nonsense thread. Nightcappers are killing WvW. No one is saying you can’t play or that NA is the only self entitled timezone. When the map doesnt budge during the day and people wake up the next morning to find it all a single color, there is a problem. Honestly, before making such dramatic statements do you even take the time to find out the facts or not?

Maybe it’s a problem with the lack of organizing globally,rather than purely nightcapping problem ?

Servers/guilds that have thought about the 24/7 system seem to be doing quite well.

Tzash.5748:

gingertree.5062:

Tzash.5748:

Blrrgh.6908:

Tzash.5748:

Blrrgh.6908:

Tzash.5748:

The “night capping” situation keeps being presented as a problem because “there is nothing the prime time players can do about their gains being lost”. But the people pushing this side of the argument totally ignore the other side of the coin. What about the servers with relatively strong off peak teams who lose all their gains during prime time? Is it their fault that the prime time players aren’t organised or just plain not interested?

The simple fact is that the ranking system will fix most of the balance issues given time.

I think prime time is best defined by the servers most populated and active time period. If you are losing all of your gains during prime time then then the server is relatively healthily balanced as there is a tug of war occurring, which I think is the intended mechanic for WvWvW.

Not quite my point. I was trying to point out that the “night capping” perspective is very one sided. Which is why the vast majority of “solutions” put forward in this forum all suggest punishing off peak players in some way.

I actually agree with you, the solution is in server balance. The only problem is that it is ultimately the choice of the players and guilds to balance the servers, and that is unrealistic for several reasons. Some people want to stay where they are because they are established, fair enough. Others want to be carried or to play on “elite” servers. Some people just want easy points. Some people don’t care about WvW at all. The ultimate result is going to be failure of WvW if the issue is not resolved in a way that makes sense for all. This has happened before in numerous games and it would be a shame if it happened to GW2.

Again, that is what the ranking system will do. Hardcore WvWvW servers will move up the ranks and ultimately compete against other like minded servers while casual servers will move down and compete against other casuals.

The thing is that a ranking system doesn’t fix things overnight, you actually have to get a ranking before you can be matched against servers with similar ranks. A lot of people are just getting uptight over losing a single 7 day match, they refuse to look ahead to the next one.

The ranking system is not going to fix the issue of night capping/alarm clocking. Please stop saying it.

If the servers that are capable of night capping all rise and the servers that aren’t all fall then how does the ranking system not solve it?

Night-capping/alarm clocking worlds are not immune to climbing/falling rank. They are always going to be matched up against worlds who don’t have this ability. There’s also the assumption that these worlds will only rise in the rankings, which is false. Worlds who don’t have night-cappers/alarm clockers are not going to want to win if it means moving up the ranks to be pitted against a team that does, and thus WvW would be completely pointless, other than to serve as a treadmill for some EXP/karma.

I could write walls of text looking at all the possible outcomes, and even with the best case scenario with the current state of things, the problem will persist. Without intervention to tackle the issue, a significant number who should have an active interest are eventually going to stop playing.

Yours sincerely
Bottom tier EU player

gingertree.5062:

Tzash.5748:

gingertree.5062:

Tzash.5748:

Blrrgh.6908:

Tzash.5748:

Blrrgh.6908:

Tzash.5748:

The “night capping” situation keeps being presented as a problem because “there is nothing the prime time players can do about their gains being lost”. But the people pushing this side of the argument totally ignore the other side of the coin. What about the servers with relatively strong off peak teams who lose all their gains during prime time? Is it their fault that the prime time players aren’t organised or just plain not interested?

The simple fact is that the ranking system will fix most of the balance issues given time.

I think prime time is best defined by the servers most populated and active time period. If you are losing all of your gains during prime time then then the server is relatively healthily balanced as there is a tug of war occurring, which I think is the intended mechanic for WvWvW.

Not quite my point. I was trying to point out that the “night capping” perspective is very one sided. Which is why the vast majority of “solutions” put forward in this forum all suggest punishing off peak players in some way.

I actually agree with you, the solution is in server balance. The only problem is that it is ultimately the choice of the players and guilds to balance the servers, and that is unrealistic for several reasons. Some people want to stay where they are because they are established, fair enough. Others want to be carried or to play on “elite” servers. Some people just want easy points. Some people don’t care about WvW at all. The ultimate result is going to be failure of WvW if the issue is not resolved in a way that makes sense for all. This has happened before in numerous games and it would be a shame if it happened to GW2.

Again, that is what the ranking system will do. Hardcore WvWvW servers will move up the ranks and ultimately compete against other like minded servers while casual servers will move down and compete against other casuals.

The thing is that a ranking system doesn’t fix things overnight, you actually have to get a ranking before you can be matched against servers with similar ranks. A lot of people are just getting uptight over losing a single 7 day match, they refuse to look ahead to the next one.

The ranking system is not going to fix the issue of night capping/alarm clocking. Please stop saying it.

If the servers that are capable of night capping all rise and the servers that aren’t all fall then how does the ranking system not solve it?

Night-capping/alarm clocking worlds are not immune to climbing/falling rank. They are always going to be matched up against worlds who don’t have this ability. There’s also the assumption that these worlds will only rise in the rankings, which is false. Worlds who don’t have night-cappers/alarm clockers are not going to want to win if it means moving up the ranks to be pitted against a team that does, and thus WvW would be completely pointless, other than to serve as a treadmill for some EXP/karma.

I could write walls of text looking at all the possible outcomes, and even with the best case scenario with the current state of things, the problem will persist. Without intervention to tackle the issue, a significant number who should have an active interest are eventually going to stop playing.

Yours sincerely
Bottom tier EU player

Your belief that night capping servers are “always going to be matched up against worlds who don’t have this ability” is subjective, you lack any real proof at this stage of the game. Is this going to happen? Yes. Will it always happen? Depends on how many servers are capable of it.

Also, your tone implies that people are deliberately flaunting a broken mechanic. I understand EU is a little bit different, but I’m Oceanic and on the US servers I’m not night capping or alarm clocking, I’m playing in my prime time. The top guild alliances in the US adapted to 24×7 battles even before the game was released. Why are the EU alliances so different?

Eve Online has a system that ‘evens’ out the time zone differences due to that game being on a single shard.

You have alliance A 95% EU TZ and Alliance B balanced selection of all TZ’s.

Now to take Alliance A’s assests Alliance B attacks a station in US TZ putting it into reinforced mode, reinforced timer is set by Alliance A to favour their own TZ so they have the majority of their players online to defend and rebuke Alliance B’s attack.

Tzash.5748:

Your belief that night capping servers are “always going to be matched up against worlds who don’t have this ability” is subjective, you lack any real proof at this stage of the game. Is this going to happen? Yes. Will it always happen? Depends on how many servers are capable of it.

Also, your tone implies that people are deliberately flaunting a broken mechanic. I understand EU is a little bit different, but I’m Oceanic and on the US servers I’m not night capping or alarm clocking, I’m playing in my prime time. The top guild alliances in the US adapted to 24×7 battles even before the game was released. Why are the EU alliances so different?

Please spare me the ad-hominem.

Proof?
BEST CASE SCENARIO top 3 worlds (multiples of 3 are best case) have night-cappers/alarm cappers. Rotation ends, 1 team goes down to rank 4, so now we just killed WvW for an entire 2 weeks for 3 teams, 1 being the team that has went up to face 2 worlds of night-cappers, and the other 2 being the worlds that are now facing the night-capping world that has came down in rank. That’s best case concerning the issue without Anet intervening, assuming things such as night-capping worlds reaching top ranks and staying there together. Now what do the other worlds have to aim for knowing they’re inevitably going to hit this road block even if they do climb the ranks? I don’t know how to make it anymore clear than that.

Your ideal solution;
All worlds field a full around the clock presence. Both you and I wish. Likely? Not a chance in kitten.

Why do the EU worlds not deal with this like the NA worlds? Night capping is a result of either people behind prime-time for said region, or alarm clockers within it. The people behind EU timezones ARE the NA players, who already have their own servers, so why would would they want to come to ours and play with high latency? Unless of course they’re French Canadians who want to play with other French speaking players.

gingertree.5062:

Unless of course they’re French Canadians who want to play with other French speaking players.

And guess what? They are French Canadians wanting to play on French servers! I mean how rude can that be? Just like a lot of the people “night capping” on US servers are Oceanic/Asian/etc and are simply playing in their own primetime.

As has been said a few times in other threads, its a real wakeup call for a lot of people to realise that there is a whole world out there that also likes to play games. And the alliances that have broadened their horizons are the ones reaping the benefits while the rest come to the forums and complain.

Also, I’ll spare you the ad-hominems when you spare me the gross generalisations. Deal?

Tzash.5748:

gingertree.5062:

Unless of course they’re French Canadians who want to play with other French speaking players.

And guess what? They are French Canadians wanting to play on French servers! I mean how rude can that be? Just like a lot of the people “night capping” on US servers are Oceanic/Asian/etc and are simply playing in their own primetime.

As has been said a few times in other threads, its a real wakeup call for a lot of people to realise that there is a whole world out there that also likes to play games. And the alliances that have broadened their horizons are the ones reaping the benefits while the rest come to the forums and complain.

Also, I’ll spare you the ad-hominems when you spare me the gross generalisations. Deal?

I don’t want to get into a personal tirade against anyone based on their geographical location. This is not about getting personal. I appreciate the fact there’s a world of people out there, having played with a number in other games, most recently one where the Oceanic players had issues with playing on NA servers and so ended up on the EU servers.

However it remains whether you and I like it that players playing inside the primetime (primetime players being the majority of the playerbase, we don’t even need to bring server location into the equation) who happen to be EU/NA based playing on servers also in those regions have zero reason to play WvW whenever they face a matchup with a world that is willing to field a significant force at what is for most people completely unrealistic times of the day because it is futile.

Night-capping is a symptom of what in the best interests of the whole playerbase is a flawed system. I’m not asking for punishment, but that might be inevitable in finding a solution. Desirable? No.

" for most people completely unrealistic times of the day"

should read:

" for Americans completely unrealistic times of the day"

Currently (Oceanic Prime Time)… All servers except 3 have either a high population or is Full. Your thoughts?

Ironically.. one of the least populated servers is Eredon Terrace.

Firefly.4165:

" for most people completely unrealistic times of the day"

should read:

" for Americans completely unrealistic times of the day"

Currently (Oceanic Prime Time)… All servers except 3 have either a high population or is Full. Your thoughts?

Ironically.. one of the least populated servers is Eredon Terrace.

I thought ET’s pop was pretty ironic too considering it is currently pounding two unofficial Oceanic servers into the ground.

PvP =! Steamrolling around a map, capping everything because noone is around to protect it.

I don’t even see the fun part of doing this from the steamrolling point of view. But I guess you like Player vs Structure. Because PvP it certainly isn’t.

Firefly.4165:

" for most people completely unrealistic times of the day"

should read:

" for Americans completely unrealistic times of the day"

Currently (Oceanic Prime Time)… All servers except 3 have either a high population or is Full. Your thoughts?

Ironically.. one of the least populated servers is Escalon Terrace.

“For most people (who happen to play in NA based timezones) are completely unrealistic times of the day.”

Would be most accurate, unless you’re willing to suggest that the majority of the playerbase in the NA worlds do not reside in these timezones. Even as a rebuttal, people within these timezones who do play at unrealistic hours are still going to be part of a minority.

I mentioned a few posts before that I’m an EU player. I’ll add that I am someone who can and has played at those unrealistic hours on EU worlds, and I’m still going to tell you it’s a problem.

You guys should be ashamed but you won’t because you have no honor and aren’t ferecious warriors with honor.
Yes you.
French speaking Aussies
French speaking Kiwis
French speaking Japanese
French speaking peeps from Singapore

Why are you all rolling on VS and making it impossible for the others to win against VS because you french speaking Asians and Oceanics just group up with the French Speaking Canadiens → Zerg → and recap everything while the real warriors with honor are asleep because so tired after spending so many hours being honorable warriors.

gingertree.5062:

Firefly.4165:

" for most people completely unrealistic times of the day"

should read:

" for Americans completely unrealistic times of the day"

Currently (Oceanic Prime Time)… All servers except 3 have either a high population or is Full. Your thoughts?

Ironically.. one of the least populated servers is Escalon Terrace.

“For most people (who happen to play in NA based timezones) are completely unrealistic times of the day.”

Would be most accurate, unless you’re willing to suggest that the majority of the playerbase in the NA worlds do not reside in these timezones. Even as a rebuttal, people within these timezones who do play at unrealistic hours are still going to be part of a minority.

I mentioned a few posts before that I’m an EU player. I’ll add that I am someone who can and has played at those unrealistic hours on EU worlds, and I’m still going to tell you it’s a problem.

EU’s situation is somewhat different to the US because while EU has a broad range of timezones its still contiguous. In the US situation Oceanic/Asian prime time is quite literaly opposite, not simply a few hours later.

I just don’t see how all the “solutions” that suggest punishing/hindering off peak play are fair. As the top US servers have already proven, the lack of a night crew is hardly an insurmountable problem. They even plugged that particular hole before game release. Current off peak US server populations also completely debunk the theory that most servers don’t have enough people on. I’d be curious to hear what the server pops are like in EU during offpeak.

gingertree

So,your not willing to field a significant force for that time ? Do you have a significant force for that time ? Or not willing to make the effort to find the manpower to field a significant force for that time?

Night-capping is a sympton of a failure to adapt and overcome a situation.

No we don’t need to bring up server location,but you did ;P,so

Anet provided US and EU servers only,the sooner US/EU players that have a problem with this deal with it,the better,becuase I’m pretty sure most Oceanic players/guilds have dealt with it,and obviously some EU/US guilds/servers are way ahead of the class,because they did too.

Dont agree sorry.

Even if Anet IP ban all non US/EU,the loser side will still blame the other for Fielding a significant force for that time,whether they call it because of unemployed people,pro gamers,kids on holiday or bored housewives,it stills remains there own fault for not protecting their assets,when they have the tools at their disposal to do so.

I find it quite funny that people actually think 24×7 means there’s an on peak and off peak play time on a server.

When there isn’t such a thing.

That’s the problem with 24×7 playtime in the real world.

NA players wouldn’t be prime time and Aust players won’t be prime time either, everyone needs to sleep at some point and well who ever is on while others are sleeping may or may not get it easier that life deal with it yourself.

The odd thing is the NA players want to make super points so they get swapped with other super high point servers, so if there was a server with a balanced NA and Aust player base then that server will be way above anyone else as they will have players online all the time and then there is never any sort of on/off peak time.

Thinking there is even on/off peak times in 24×7 server is quite silly thinking.

The only way to stop that would be to shut down the server for 12 hours of the day, tough luck if you work and only get 4 hours on the server.

One solution would be if they forced all timezones to play in the same server pool, as in, no NA/EU – just one server roster. I have a NA and EU account and both run on the same ping.

OP, the opposite is true as well. Why do you think it’s OK for you to dominate WvW just because you are playing when everyone is asleep? Why do you think your timezone is more important? You are raggin’ on everyone who is calling for something to be done but you yourself are pursuing your own interests and goals. Oh the hypocrisy.

gingertree.. please explain why population is a problem during those problematic hours when the server is either high or full?

All i see is people complaining from both sides of the arguement, with very little offer of a solution to the current problem – which regardless of how you look at it, does exist: servers with larger populations from outside the EU/NA have a better chance of making ground and setting up defences while the majority of the other 2 servers sleeps/works.

Anybody with a brain can see this is not the fault of ‘off-peak’ players and in no way wishes that their enjoyment of the game should be any more or less than the ‘peak-time’ players. This is merely an inbalance of the populations at certain times of the day.

The only person i see here on this forum that is objectively looking at the problem and offering a solution is Xonal. Proportional representation based on the population on the servers at that time is by far a better idea. That way servers, regardless of their time-zone/language/country can still run rampant at times that they have a higher population, but they will just gain less points for doing so.

In time, players that are just winning/losing outright because of server imbalance will just get bored and lose interest – which will eventually lead to players moving on to different games. I am currently on Desolation and have already lost interest in WvW after 2 weeks because there is no way our server can compete under the current system and population balance. We will lose this week’s competition, be put up against 2 servers that have a lower off-peak pop, win and end up being put against the same 2 servers as before, only to lose again terribly.

Xonal’s solution would benefit every server and stop the never ending circle that we are all inevitably going to face, not to mention the possibility of many players becoming disillusioned and jumping ship, which nobody wants.

To-bad-for-you.

gingertree.5062:

Tzash.5748:

Your belief that night capping servers are “always going to be matched up against worlds who don’t have this ability” is subjective, you lack any real proof at this stage of the game. Is this going to happen? Yes. Will it always happen? Depends on how many servers are capable of it.

Also, your tone implies that people are deliberately flaunting a broken mechanic. I understand EU is a little bit different, but I’m Oceanic and on the US servers I’m not night capping or alarm clocking, I’m playing in my prime time. The top guild alliances in the US adapted to 24×7 battles even before the game was released. Why are the EU alliances so different?

Please spare me the ad-hominem.

Proof?
BEST CASE SCENARIO top 3 worlds (multiples of 3 are best case) have night-cappers/alarm cappers. Rotation ends, 1 team goes down to rank 4, so now we just killed WvW for an entire 2 weeks for 3 teams, 1 being the team that has went up to face 2 worlds of night-cappers, and the other 2 being the worlds that are now facing the night-capping world that has came down in rank. That’s best case concerning the issue without Anet intervening, assuming things such as night-capping worlds reaching top ranks and staying there together. Now what do the other worlds have to aim for knowing they’re inevitably going to hit this road block even if they do climb the ranks? I don’t know how to make it anymore clear than that.

Your ideal solution;
All worlds field a full around the clock presence. Both you and I wish. Likely? Not a chance in kitten.

Why do the EU worlds not deal with this like the NA worlds? Night capping is a result of either people behind prime-time for said region, or alarm clockers within it. The people behind EU timezones ARE the NA players, who already have their own servers, so why would would they want to come to ours and play with high latency? Unless of course they’re French Canadians who want to play with other French speaking players.

You do understand that West USA is pretty the last of the GMT time blocks, and the GMT turn over in around the middle of the pacific ocean, then the east USA is about 8 hours ahead of the west side.

The EU is slightly different because GMT = London so The eastern side of the EU is around 6 hours and many countries will be in the same block of time, you’ll still have people coming on during their daytime because people will be working at night and have fun during the day.

The NA servers are only different because their block of time is what 6 hours different to the first block of Asian countries who will be on the NA servers because that will give the lowest pings to the servers.

The problem for NA players/people in general is they don’t know about the rest of the world so think the whole game only works on USA times, and only US people use or play on these servers when that just isn’t the case.

The problem you have is thinking the US time zones are the only prime times on the US servers when that isn’t correct and completely wrong, they are 24×7 servers so anyone could play the game at anytime even if you couldn’t be bothered to play the game their will be people on there playing.

I just wonder if you still fuss about the servers when you can’t be on them when it’s prime US time because people would be zerging areas just as areas will be getting zerged when it’s this off peak time.

The realitly of this will be servers that have 24×7 player bases will end up matched together and only 1 will have a slightly larger point base than the other and those servers will always be pitted against each other.

No matter what happened even with this so called offpeak nerfing, you’ll only screw that server as it’ll only have people playing on 12×7 playerbase servers and you won’t make any where near as many points as a 24×7 playerbase server.

monodescarado.4980:

Xonal’s solution would benefit every server and stop the never ending circle that we are all inevitably going to face, not to mention the possibility of many players becoming disillusioned and jumping ship, which nobody wants.

Sorry but Xonal’s solution is just another one of those that wants to hinder a server just because it happens to have a higher offpeak presence. Why should one server be penalised because another can’t/won’t field enough people? Current US offpeak populations is 3 medium and the rest high. Seems to be a motivational issue rather than population.

Not really. Please consider one of the lowest populated servers Eredon Terrace as an example. A server population does not represent a WvW population and will thus gain a silly advantage if it has a small and efficient player base like ET. So it would give them an unfair beneficial weighting to what is already a top 4 NA server in WvW.

In addition to that.. servers with a FULL population.. FULL of PvE’rs will have a sad weighting on what is an already small participation of WvW players on their servers.

Nope..not a solution.

Co operate with another server. Or convert the PVE players to WvW players.

Sorry, to be specific i was talking about balancing the incoming points based on the current WvW population, not the server population.

The solution proposed by Xonal would not hinder anyone. It would be aimed at rewarding skilled and organized servers rather than rewarding a server for having more people online at certain times.

If you have less players than the opposition and you still take their garrison, why shouldn’t you be rewarded for it!?
If you out-number the opposition 4:1, do you really think you deserve all those points? After all it’s pretty much taking candy from a baby.
If all 3 have full WvW pops, then they should all receive the same points for capping.

This looks fairer to me than the current system, as has nothing to do with what time-zone anyone is from, only how many players are currently in WvW at any given time.

monodescarado.4980:

Sorry, to be specific i was talking about balancing the incoming points based on the current WvW population, not the server population.

The solution proposed by Xonal would not hinder anyone. It would be aimed at rewarding skilled and organized servers rather than rewarding a server for having more people online at certain times.

If you have less players than the opposition and you still take their garrison, why shouldn’t you be rewarded for it!?
If you out-number the opposition 4:1, do you really think you deserve all those points? After all it’s pretty much taking candy from a baby.
If all 3 have full WvW pops, then they should all receive the same points for capping.

This looks fairer to me than the current system, as has nothing to do with what time-zone anyone is from, only how many players are currently in WvW at any given time.

Your supposedly fair system is also ripe for abuse. If a server gets a decent points lead then they just pull all their players out. The other team can take everything back but only get marginal reward for it.

Having more troops in a war is an advantage, its meant to be advantage. You said you want to reward organised servers, but then you suggest punishing servers that are able to organise more players to be on at a certain time. Its not fair, not in any way shape or form.

I agree that the discussion is unfortunately self-centered and short-sighted. Mostly, I digress with the whole idea of “night capping” being the problem. Let’s say three servers with the same prime times were matched. You know what a smart guild would do? Organize night raids.
It’s not unbalanced, it’s war, and the WHOLE POINT of this game type is the war doesn’t stop when you stop playing.

Tzash.5748:

Your supposedly fair system is also ripe for abuse. If a server gets a decent points lead then they just pull all their players out. The other team can take everything back but only get marginal reward for it.

Having more troops in a war is an advantage, its meant to be advantage. You said you want to reward organised servers, but then you suggest punishing servers that are able to organise more players to be on at a certain time. Its not fair, not in any way shape or form.

Fair point.

You are correct in saying that having more troops in a war should be an advantage. However lets not forget this is a game based on a war scenario, and in any game one side having an advantage for whatever reason tends to eventually kill a game.

Like I say, on Desolation we are consistently getting hammered by the french speaking VS, but we are not doing badly: 3rd overall in EU. I do not however see any EU server coming close to VS and whether we climb or drop in the ranks, whichever server is in 2nd or 3rd in the rankings will suffer the same fate. There is just no point in logging in to WvW during this time, and i am merely worried this will have an overall impact on the game.

If the solution is to convince more players to play at different times, how would you suggest one goes about it? To tell people to quit their day job?

I guess the game is still young, and in time there may be guild reshuffling accross servers etc. Only time can tell. For now though, as a new game you would want the majority of servers to be happy and feel a sense of fair competition so that the game can survive its honeymoon period. With new games being released, especially MoP soon, GW2 will lose a decent amount of its player base anyway.

I for one am enjoying the game immensely and will be sticking around for the forseeable future. But sadly, I have no interest in playing WvW until the scales are a little more balanced.

monodescarado.4980:

You are correct in saying that having more troops in a war should be an advantage. However lets not forget this is a game based on a war scenario, and in any game one side having an advantage for whatever reason tends to eventually kill a game.

Which is why more games these days do 3 side PvP. If one side becomes dominant (as inevitably happens) then the weaker 2 sides can join up and hopefully overcome the bigger side. It doesn’t necessarily always happen that way, but the theory has been around since DAoC and many people still hold DAoC up as the beacon of RvR.