Guild Wars 2

Let’s talk more about Tier 8. Sorrow’s Furnace is currently the top dog on Tier 8 and even though they win their matches handily, they don’t seem to be moving up tiers anytime soon.

Just looking at their chart http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/45/#history

it seems that they could plateau in Tier 8 for 3 more months.

So should PVE players consider SF the best place to be? With extra POWER OF THE MISTS, SF players will be sturdier and enjoy more benefits throughout the week compared to players on loser servers and even the highly competitive servers don’t have as much bonuses.

Players on SF have 2 options
1) Try as hard as they can to move up to tier 7 and then all their Power of the Mists is gone!
2) Maintain some stability in Tier 8 and rack up easy kills from ET and FC but never boost their rating so far as to leave the “comforts” of Tier 8.

Maybe the players on Kaineng or Devona’s Rest have some opinion on this as they were the other 2 servers that worked their way out of Tier 8.

I wonder what the current mindset is on SF too. With all those bonuses and killing your easy opponents week after week, how could you not want to stay in Tier 8 for the rest of your GW2 life. Hahaha.

Personally the bonuses don’t mean that much to me. I’d rather be in the next tier and find more challenges in WvW. (I’m from Sorrow’s Furnace btw.)

I think what outweighs a few extra damage points or an extra node every once in a while is the lack of challenge for any serious wvw players on SF

The die-hard wvw players go into wvw for a good fight and a challenge; how are they supposed to get it under these conditions? If you look at the match threads, some of the larger guilds really want the server to move up. They do have pockets of good players, but how is the server as a whole supposed to get better?

As someone who both PvEs and WvWs, the Power of the Mists bonuses are pretty minuscule and aren’t much of a lure for PvEers. That’s not to say we aren’t a PvE paradise. We are a great server for PvEers, but only because we have a very strong PvE community and you’ll never feel alone when exploring the PvE maps.

Personally, I’d rather have our long deserved shot in a higher tier so we can finally have a challenge and so our WvWers can continue to learn and grow. Before we loose too many good people to PvE due to boredom and frustration that Glicko punishes us with a rating decline for “underperforming” even though we’re still curbstomping.

Anyone with a competitive spirit would not want to be comfortable. Comfort breeds boredom, like doing a dungeon a hundred times, after a while, it becomes stale and stagnant, and you want to move on to something more, something new, something challenging.

That is why games put out new content all the time, that is why gamers want new content, or new games, or something to work for. They don’t want tedium to set in, hence why we play games.

And a gamer that wants to play competitive games, like WvWvW or PvP, while may enjoy the noob stomp from time to time, what really pulls a player into WvWvW is the hard fights, the tight fights, and the times when you bust though the wall and all chaos breaks loose.

Those are the moments that pull you back to the field. If you were just looking for.. what’s the disparity? Like a 2% variance between 1st and 3rd for WvWvW buffs?

Any PvE’er who would pick a server based on that, I think missed the wagon on what to look for in a server.

Ungood.3054:

Anyone with a competitive spirit would not want to be comfortable. Comfort breeds boredom, like doing a dungeon a hundred times, after a while, it becomes stale and stagnant, and you want to move on to something more, something new, something challenging.

That is why games put out new content all the time, that is why gamers want new content, or new games, or something to work for. They don’t want tedium to set in, hence why we play games.

And a gamer that wants to play competitive games, like WvWvW or PvP, while may enjoy the noob stomp from time to time, what really pulls a player into WvWvW is the hard fights, the tight fights, and the times when you bust though the wall and all chaos breaks loose.

Those are the moments that pull you back to the field.

Exactly!

I feel this video sums it up nicely. Methinks ANet’s WvW development team needs to walk down the hall and have a nice little chat with one of their company’s level artists.

http://youtu.be/fOdgQbZW2Xo

Manoa.5897:

I feel this video sums it up nicely. Methinks ANet’s WvW development team needs to walk down the hall and have a nice little chat with one of their company’s level artists.

http://youtu.be/fOdgQbZW2Xo

That was a cool video! Thank you!

Ungood.3054:

Manoa.5897:

I feel this video sums it up nicely. Methinks ANet’s WvW development team needs to walk down the hall and have a nice little chat with one of their company’s level artists.

http://youtu.be/fOdgQbZW2Xo

That was a cool video! Thank you!

Anytime! I stumbled upon it during the Mad King Jumping Puzzle outcry and love it.

Also, I feel the need to point out that the Sisyphean task should be the opponents, not the rating system itself.

SF is certainly the Sisyphean task for ET and FC, who have used the insurmountable odds and risk of failure to learn, grow and develop their strategies. (ET especially…seriously, hats off to ET for their defensive siege, I’m taking notes ). And there’s a pride of accomplishment when they overcome all odds to take an objective.

But for SF, the Sisyphean task (and our real enemy) is the rating system itself, not our WvW opponents. When the rating system is our Sisyphean task, there’s no risk for failure, no opportunity to learn, develop and grow. And no sense of accomplishment when we curbsomp the opposition for yet another week. Just frustration when our rating stagnates or backslides. With such stagnation and lack of challenge, people grow bored and seek out new challenges (either in PvE or in other servers).

Please know that this post isn’t intended to be a “poor pity us, the curbstompin’ winners.” But to illustrate the problem when you shift the Sisyphean task from WvW opponents to the rating system itself with the hope that any ArenaNet folks who may be reading understand why a certain level of volatility in the rating system is really needed.

Oresh.4729:

what the point of making 20 new thread per week about this problem?
if you want sf to move up just dont wvw for 2 weeks and lets them score 695ppt.

Oresh.4729:

Oresh.4729:

what the point of making 20 new thread per week about this problem?
if you want sf to move up just dont wvw for 2 weeks and lets them score 695ppt.

yeah, totally agree! why should anyone ever complain about a problem in hopes that it gets fixed … why would anyone try to bring a problem to anet’s attention or be frustrated that they don’t answer one of the 20 new threads per week

blasphemy! I demand you delete all posts on this subject

I feel for you guys, question is: how do ANet fix it? Separate ranking system for T7- ? Glicko works, extremely well, for T6+.

PvE heaven? Hm… Possibly….

My alts love that +18%-20% artisan bonus on thursday nights. Cooking and artisan + crafting booster on a thursday night, my alts love that kitten. 7gish for 20-25 levels on an alt purely off the trading post? Plz sir, can I have more?? Running the XP/Karma train of supply camps + towers is great. Grab a keep? Sweet, 2 bars to the level. Catch the right timeframe you can just 4 cata the eastern keep (SH, AH, BH or whatever) + Map completion, + super easy daily completion. Awesome. Leveling in this match up? U kidding? It’s SAWEEEETTTT.

That said I kittening hate this match up. It’s boring. That’s not to take anything away from ET/FC, you guys put up a HELL of a fight, I just wish there was MORE of you to put up that fight. As for SF, our coordination and such has deteriorated quite bit, we all have to admit it. That said though, our coordination is still there, and that small amount of coordination + our numbers is just too much for ET and FC. The small window of LATE night + early morning is where ET can really put the point tick against us. Outside of that? Steamroll. Boring. We all suffer from this match up currently, it can’t be argued.

This rating system needs a floor. 1000 rating points, 950, whatever, there needs to be a floor for rating points that you can’t go past. In any other tier if you get stomped the kitten out you move down, there’s no possibility for that in T8 as there’s no tier below it.Therefore their needs to be a floor in T8 so it doesn’t slip into oblivion. Glicko seems more suited for a circular application, not so much a linear/tiered application. There needs to be mathematical adjustment to accommodate this fact (ie: the establishment of a floor). The fact that there isn’t is more of a testament to ignorance than it is an excusable course of action.

However, unfortunately, there has been no indication that such a mathematical floor will be established. Neither will there be an increase to the “volatility” so to speak of T8 that would encourage quicker tier movement/adjustment between T8 and T7 (which would be beneficial but not effect the established competitiveness of the higher tiers as a stat reset would have).

As such, I have 1 goal when I go into WvW. To stomp the living kitten out of FC and ET. To push you back to your spawn points and then establish an impassible line of ballista and arrow carts. To paint the ENTIRETY of the WvW map green and then throw WPs down in captured keeps in your BLs so our night crew can move around easier. Cuz given the current mathematics that is the ONLY way we can move out of this tier. And as all our currently PvEing members realize that and storm WvW in their pretty pink gear it’ll become even more of a curbstomping experience. And i know it sucks, I know its frustrating as one of your favorite aspects of this game (WvW) is reduced to trying to take the alternative paths from your spawn to get some kind of flanking force to take out the 4+ ballista thats kitten any forward effort. I know that you’re having a hell of a time getting the newbie members of your guild interested in WvW, that they get stomped by this out of control SF zerg and say “this kittens stupid, there’s no rewards for it, there’s no kittening point outside of map completition and the 500 badge requirement for a legendary to even kittening bother.” And that sucks man, that sucks for all of us. No one should be that HARSHLY discouraged to WvW. But thats what this stupid kitten system has FORCED us, SF, to do, in a hope to move out of this kitten tier and face a challenge that actually excites us.

So, speaking for all of those on SF, even those that seem to enjoy kitten talking on the forum etc etc, I apologize, cuz deep down I know ALL of us wish this wasn’t the case. And I encourage you guys to find your ways to make WvW enjoyable for you. At the same time, I’d rather see our tally sitting at +600 24/7 cuz that means we’re at least getting closer to changing this match up up. It’s a kittenty situation guys… No need to hold this mathematical kitten up against any specific server or anything. It is what it is.

Mad love all <3 GGs.

Manoa.5897:

Ungood.3054:

Manoa.5897:

I feel this video sums it up nicely. Methinks ANet’s WvW development team needs to walk down the hall and have a nice little chat with one of their company’s level artists.

http://youtu.be/fOdgQbZW2Xo

That was a cool video! Thank you!

Anytime! I stumbled upon it during the Mad King Jumping Puzzle outcry and love it.

Also, I feel the need to point out that the Sisyphean task should be the opponents, not the rating system itself.

SF is certainly the Sisyphean task for ET and FC, who have used the insurmountable odds and risk of failure to learn, grow and develop their strategies. (ET especially…seriously, hats off to ET for their defensive siege, I’m taking notes ). And there’s a pride of accomplishment when they overcome all odds to take an objective.

But for SF, the Sisyphean task (and our real enemy) is the rating system itself, not our WvW opponents. When the rating system is our Sisyphean task, there’s no risk for failure, no opportunity to learn, develop and grow. And no sense of accomplishment when we curbsomp the opposition for yet another week. Just frustration when our rating stagnates or backslides. With such stagnation and lack of challenge, people grow bored and seek out new challenges (either in PvE or in other servers).

Please know that this post isn’t intended to be a “poor pity us, the curbstompin’ winners.” But to illustrate the problem when you shift the Sisyphean task from WvW opponents to the rating system itself with the hope that any ArenaNet folks who may be reading understand why a certain level of volatility in the rating system is really needed.

Not to be an “I told you so” type of person, but, I did try to explain this to you (Maybe not you specifically, but your side) about a month ago when I saw the problem looming, and was attacked for “making you feel bad about winning”

Ungood if you illustrated that point and were attacked for “making us feel bad about winning” then I apologize, it shouldn’t have been the case. Manoa’s post is extremely on point and illustrates the sort of “experiential” aspect of this current match up. If you echoed the same sentiments then there is no justifiable reason for someone to “attack you” for anything. You simply accurately described the reality of the situation.

In that sense too, Manoa’s post should be taken into great consideration by us afflicted by our current match up condition. As they say, ET and FC’s enemy is SF. SF’s enemy is Glicko.

Zen.1965:

Ungood if you illustrated that point and were attacked for “making us feel bad about winning” then I apologize, it shouldn’t have been the case. Manoa’s post is extremely on point and illustrates the sort of “experiential” aspect of this current match up. If you echoed the same sentiments then there is no justifiable reason for someone to “attack you” for anything. You simply accurately described the reality of the situation.

In that sense too, Manoa’s post should be taken into great consideration by us afflicted by our current match up condition. As they say, ET and FC’s enemy is SF. SF’s enemy is Glicko.

About a month ago I tried to explain that ET and FC were not going to be SF’s opponent, and that because of the math system, SF would end up fighting their own numbers on the Glicko System.

I even tried to explain how to game the system to pull ahead when a plateau was hit, which I figured would happen, that was not well received to say the least. So, since I didn’t see the point in trying to talk to people who won’t want to listen, and I can’t change other people to want to listen. I changed the only thing I could, and that was the way I approach WvWvW.

So, with that said. Bring it on, We will fight you Invader, we will fight you till the last drop of blood.

Ungood.3054:

Not to be an “I told you so” type of person, but, I did try to explain this to you (Maybe not you specifically, but your side) about a month ago when I saw the problem looming, and was attacked for “making you feel bad about winning”

Certainly couldn’t have been me specifically. I’ve been on your side as an active and vocal supporter of the silly notion that the T8 rating math is not fine for about a month as well (i.e. when the sadly now locked “In my opinion, t8 rankings need more attention” came about).

A good number of us SFers recognized the issue back then, but some were more optimistic than others about being able to claw our way out. With the severe rating backslide on 3/1 (even though we still won the match by a bloody landslide), I don’t think anyone can argue with you anymore that our true enemy in this tier is Glicko.

zamalek.2154:

I feel for you guys, question is: how do ANet fix it? Separate ranking system for T7- ? Glicko works, extremely well, for T6+.

I know a former Blackgate player who is now on ET who would disagree with the notion that Glicko works extremely well for T6+. The most extreme examples of Glicko not working well are in Tiers 1 and 8, where there’s no rating ceiling and no rating floor. The rating gap between T1/T2 and T7/T8 makes it impossible to move up into/out of those tiers on your own accord (in other words, you have to wait for a higher rated server to implode and drop rating like a hot potato before you can have any hope at moving up).

zamalek.2154:

I feel for you guys, question is: how do ANet fix it? Separate ranking system for T7- ? Glicko works, extremely well, for T6+.

Free Transfers caused many numbers to be artificially altered, So, without redoing anything, the best option at this point would be for Anet to stick to their guns with their plan to reset everything after free transfers ended.

While a bit late now, it would better then letting things sit as they are.

Within a month everyone will be where they belong or close to it.

I agree with whoever I should agree with. It is Monday morning, I need to wakeup more before posting much.

Isaac.6041:

Let’s talk more about Tier 8. Sorrow’s Furnace is currently the top dog on Tier 8 and even though they win their matches handily, they don’t seem to be moving up tiers anytime soon.

Just looking at their chart http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/45/#history

it seems that they could plateau in Tier 8 for 3 more months.

So should PVE players consider SF the best place to be? With extra POWER OF THE MISTS, SF players will be sturdier and enjoy more benefits throughout the week compared to players on loser servers and even the highly competitive servers don’t have as much bonuses.

Players on SF have 2 options
1) Try as hard as they can to move up to tier 7 and then all their Power of the Mists is gone!
2) Maintain some stability in Tier 8 and rack up easy kills from ET and FC but never boost their rating so far as to leave the “comforts” of Tier 8.

Maybe the players on Kaineng or Devona’s Rest have some opinion on this as they were the other 2 servers that worked their way out of Tier 8.

I wonder what the current mindset is on SF too. With all those bonuses and killing your easy opponents week after week, how could you not want to stay in Tier 8 for the rest of your GW2 life. Hahaha.

I know from being on kain when we were on tier 8 we wanted to move up. It took some work, DR to finally move up and back then DE and WM to pull us up along with the guilds we already had. I’m not sure what is the mindset on SF, but I’m sure they want to move up for better competition. We are primarily a wvw server than pve. So that probably helps with the motivation to improve and get better with wvw.

When we were blowing out servers, it was pretty boring for us. We are now in tier 2 and the fights are pretty intense and balanced. We like the balance fights we are getting. Better than roll over your opponents because we out number them by a lot.

Anyway, we miss you guys especially FC, we fought with them for many weeks. They need to fix tier 8. Have a bottom in points so servers don’t get stuck down there. Right now FC and ET is close to 500 points from any tier 7 server. That is ridiculous. Pretty much the only way SF will move up is if ET and FC don’t show up for a week. Then you will get another opponent. They might beat you guys as well, but it would boost the morale of the wvw community on those servers to get a better showing.

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

I agree with whoever I should agree with. It is Monday morning, I need to wakeup more before posting much.

You’re on the side of the good and righteous Cantur.

:hands Cantur a caffeinated morning beverage:

Manoa.5897:

Cantur Soulfyre.5409:

I agree with whoever I should agree with. It is Monday morning, I need to wakeup more before posting much.

You’re on the side of the good and righteous Cantur.

:hands Cantur a caffeinated morning beverage:

Ahhhhh, thank you. Happy Monday everyone, here is to a good and productive week ahead!

I think anyone that has played the game for sometime….as in since the beginning has know the system has been broken. Anet know this cause they have tried to put in many fixes already.

FilthyRat.4652:

I think anyone that has played the game for sometime….as in since the beginning has know the system has been broken. Anet know this cause they have tried to put in many fixes already.

They did? I don’t remember any… They backed on the only one I knew (and problably would cause a real mess anyway).

Jeknar.6184:

FilthyRat.4652:

I think anyone that has played the game for sometime….as in since the beginning has know the system has been broken. Anet know this cause they have tried to put in many fixes already.

They did? I don’t remember any… They backed on the only one I knew (and problably would cause a real mess anyway).

How long have you been playing the game? There has been a problem since day one, and if you guys really think that you are taking a beating by being able to hold your own borderland and take other parts of EB if not the whole thing…then obviously you haven’t experienced the worst of the game.

I have been on servers where you would be lucky to hold a single tower so come back and complain to me then, because I still came and fought every single day even then

FilthyRat.4652:

How long have you been playing the game? There has been a problem since day one, and if you guys really think that you are taking a beating by being able to hold your own borderland and take other parts of EB if not the whole thing…then obviously you haven’t experienced the worst of the game.

I have been on servers where you would be lucky to hold a single tower so come back and complain to me then, because I still came and fought every single day even then

I’m talking about the fixes, not how Glicko is broken… That I knew from the start.