Guild Wars 2

People really need to stop making these threads. Slide over to the pvp forum and thieves are ranked near the bottom of best classes. I used to think Thieves were OP until I learned to play a bit better.

The OP with his Caltrops/shaman thief build sounds like he has no idea how a thief should work. Probably just got rolled by one.

Edit. Thievs bieng OP is so 2 months ago, join WvW and fight a good d/d ele if you want to talk OP. A midiocre d/d ele will steamroll a great thief plus 5 of his coolest friends. Mark my words, eles will get noticed soon.

killimandros.5087:

Generally tl;dr posts tells me more about reading abilities which probably are nothing compared to your leet player skills. If 3 liners are too long and make you feel dizzy, maybe glasses could help you?

Why should anyone bother to read what you type? It’s just exaggeration or lies. In this thread you typed:

killimandros.5087:

Yesterday my guildteam witnessed 2 thiefs making shadfow refugee, a group of 20 people entered, and thats the last we saw of them (they were roughly 8-10 sec. run away from us). Luckily we spotted them and were prepared for incoming, which came, invisible of course. So there we were spamming aoe against an invisible force attacking us. In the mid fight 2-3 of them appeared, then when the match was over we could see most of them again. Still a couple of “red” guys popped up a bit after the actual fight. This is what stealth plus culling does. Players WILL abuse this mechanic as long as it is not considered an offensive exploit. Was this intended Anet? Is this how you want WvW to be played?

A single SR can only blanket 5 people. If a 6th is there it will leave one visible. It’s strange you don’t know that since you play a thief and all. Yea I also saw you say “add a 3rd for 15 plus a Mesmer” later on but the fact is you stated 2 thieves stealthing 20 people. This is the type of uninformed misinformation these forums are chalk full of. Good job contributing to the waterfall of BS. I’m sure this example can be extended to almost any mechanic you complain about.

Brome, this isnt spvp, its wvw. Huge difference. The second part didnt make sense. Maybe im just tired :-) Got it now. I dont really wanna add into the 1v1 or 1v5 discussion, which class is op or not. Only issue with stealth and culling.

Stiv. I already answered that one. What was your point again? I believe you are trying to say stealth isnt a problem combined with culling? If that is so, we disagree. I am very specifically targeting stealth as a major cause to culling, from personal experience both ways. I am not targeting any other mechanism (altough portals also create rendering issues), symbols, boons, etc. etc. These MAY add to the rendering issue, but stealth most definitively does. Do you deny it? SR is the single ability which causes LONGEST rendering/culling error time, hence why I specifically use that skill as an example. There are other thief skills also making rendering timer bug out, like, hide in shadows, infiltrators arrow, blindig powder, shadow return, cloak and dagger, smoke screen. Some affect other players, some only the thief, some shorter time as well.

treyalsup.4627:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Thieves only get revealed when attacking in stealth. If they don’t, they can just Cloak and Dagger constantly giving off ‘perma stealth’ but in fact, they aren’t attacking you what so ever. When they burst you, that’s when you snare, immbo and wreck them. If they cloak while immbo or snared, just hit in place because most likely they are still stuck there. If he just cloaks around, just capture a point or whatever and ignore him. If you have allies how lay out conditions, put as many as you can if he’s ‘revealed’. But make sure he made an attack first. If it’s just 1 thief, I doubt it’s culling.

I doubt its culling too, but it does seem in WvW moreso than sPvP that a thief can open on you from stealth and you still don’t see them for a longer period of time, even if it is a smaller engagement.

Also, Snaring/Immobilizing and attacking the spot wasn’t “wrecking” him. I assure you I’m familiar with the concept of attacking where the stealther is supposed to be. It just wasn’t very effective, even when “right”.

If the best we can do is “ignore” the thief and he can control when and where he engages and disengages, thats a problem. What was supposed to be the counter to stealth? Shadowbane had tracking. WoW (only payed vanilla) had hunter’s mark. GW1 didn’t have stealth.

It’s just a very problematic mechanic that’s hard to balance, that sadly has become a staple of the genre.

Its the way the thief is designed the class is suppose to have the choice of when to engage and disengage a fight. Its in the class balance philosophy blog they posted in like december.

Killimandros, thieves are not near the top of WvW OP list. If you can’t beat one thats fine. At least learn the class you are trying to get nerfed or you just sound bitter.

WvW power rankings! you heard it here first!
1. Ele
2. Mes
3. Guard
4. Thief
5. Necro/Eng
6. Ranger
7. War

I could switch ele or mesmer. I never my guild say how many thievs do we have on? Good now we can do x and x. I do hear that every night with mesmers needing 4 of them. Now tell me how blink/ports/timewarps are not OP in WvW. Would i call for a nerf on a Mesmer.

Nope they are rad.

Brome.7036:

Killimandros, thieves are not near the top of WvW OP list. If you can’t beat one thats fine. At least learn the class you are trying to get nerfed or you just sound bitter.

WvW power rankings! you heard it here first!
1. Ele
2. Mes
3. Guard
4. Thief
5. Necro/Eng
6. Ranger
7. War

always delighted when the pros add to the discussion

since you edited, ill do it too; I am not gonna argue 1v1 or 1v5 etc. I am only gonna discuss stealth and culling issue. Then again, I play a thief so umm, did you read what I typed? All question answered.

To Banjal, that discussion has been going on since Wow, maybe even anarchy online (who had camo I believe, correct me if im wrong). This is how the devs have decided the class to be. Its a 1v1 scenario, doesnt affect culling and is another discussion imo.

Stealth needs to break on DMG.It’s dumb that I can hit them over and over wile they are in Stealth but I still can’t see them.

Musty.3148:

Hell, I’ve been saying this for months, I stopped playing my 80 thief because it’s an imbarassingly easy class to curbstomp people with. Any of you kids playing them should be imbarrassed for picking and continuing to play such an imbarrassingly OP class.

And you should be embarrassed about spelling that word incorrectly twice while spell checkers exist in web browsers.

Thief is fine as it is. You can crush scrubs, but you can do that on any class. If people know what you’re doing and they’re level 80, they put up a good fight, just like with every other class.

Brome.7036:

WvW power rankings! you heard it here first!
1. Ele
2. Mes
3. Guard
4. Thief
5. Necro/Eng
6. Ranger
7. War

I don’t understand why Guardian is way up on this list, lol. Can you explain it? Mine is pretty terrible in WvW. (about all my GRD can kill are THFs, w)

Banjal.7328:

Stealth needs to break on DMG.It’s dumb that I can hit them over and over wile they are in Stealth but I still can’t see them.

I could get behind this as long as I get to be invincible the first 2 seconds of stealth.

Banjal.7328:

Stealth needs to break on DMG.It’s dumb that I can hit them over and over wile they are in Stealth but I still can’t see them.

Stealth breaking on damage is like having no stealth at all.

wish.3102:

Musty.3148:

Hell, I’ve been saying this for months, I stopped playing my 80 thief because it’s an imbarassingly easy class to curbstomp people with. Any of you kids playing them should be imbarrassed for picking and continuing to play such an imbarrassingly OP class.

And you should be embarrassed about spelling that word incorrectly twice while spell checkers exist in web browsers.

Thief is fine as it is. You can crush scrubs, but you can do that on any class. If people know what you’re doing and they’re level 80, they put up a good fight, just like with every other class.

Well, MY spellchecker is bound to another language than english, I get red lines every word I write. Remember not all are native english speakers.

killimandros.5087:

Brome.7036:

Killimandros, thieves are not near the top of WvW OP list. If you can’t beat one thats fine. At least learn the class you are trying to get nerfed or you just sound bitter.

WvW power rankings! you heard it here first!
1. Ele
2. Mes
3. Guard
4. Thief
5. Necro/Eng
6. Ranger
7. War

always delighted when the pros add to the discussion

since you edited, ill do it too; I am not gonna argue 1v1 or 1v5 etc. I am only gonna discuss stealth and culling issue. Then again, I play a thief so umm, did you read what I typed? All question answered.

To Banjal, that discussion has been going on since Wow, maybe even anarchy online (who had camo I believe, correct me if im wrong). This is how the devs have decided the class to be. Its a 1v1 scenario, doesnt affect culling and is another discussion imo.

One thing I have been wondering. Yes, stealth proccing culling or whatnot is annoying. But has it really affected your WvW match?

Aurust.8961:

I didnt read any of the posts here at all since im assuming its more qq about thieves. Get more survival stats and immobilize. Stop crying.

Bet you he was a thief, lol.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

killimandros.5087:

Brome.7036:

Killimandros, thieves are not near the top of WvW OP list. If you can’t beat one thats fine. At least learn the class you are trying to get nerfed or you just sound bitter.

WvW power rankings! you heard it here first!
1. Ele
2. Mes
3. Guard
4. Thief
5. Necro/Eng
6. Ranger
7. War

always delighted when the pros add to the discussion

since you edited, ill do it too; I am not gonna argue 1v1 or 1v5 etc. I am only gonna discuss stealth and culling issue. Then again, I play a thief so umm, did you read what I typed? All question answered.

To Banjal, that discussion has been going on since Wow, maybe even anarchy online (who had camo I believe, correct me if im wrong). This is how the devs have decided the class to be. Its a 1v1 scenario, doesnt affect culling and is another discussion imo.

One thing I have been wondering. Yes, stealth proccing culling or whatnot is annoying. But has it really affected your WvW match?

If you arent mindlessly running around in a huge zerg, but trying to react and respond to movements in a group on TS, yes it afgfects the wvw match very, very much. Because unless you abuse the mechanic yourself, you will very often end up being attacked without realizing the enemy is there. Most annoying is the fact it only benefits the huge zerg. The zerg can normally see smaller groups just fine, while smaller organized groups wont see the enemy zerg. So culling due to stealth is actually a zerg booster, not a zerg buster as it probably intentionally was supposed to be, making wvw organized groups/fights become stale and more of a who can abuse the culling the most rather than movement and good organization

Thieves can no longer C&D on walls for near perma-stealth.

regardless what the issue is stealth is killing the roaming part of WvW. I solo roam all the time, I would say 90% of the people I face are thieves . Now days it’s not even single thieves anymore it’s an arms race. Since thieves find themselves facing other thieves now thieves run in packs of 2-3 . As a soloer 1 thief is fair 2 is not beatable 3 is insane.

Mogar.9216:

regardless what the issue is stealth is killing the roaming part of WvW. I solo roam all the time, I would say 90% of the people I face are thieves . Now days it’s not even single thieves anymore it’s an arms race. Since thieves find themselves facing other thieves now thieves run in packs of 2-3 . As a soloer 1 thief is fair 2 is not beatable 3 is insane.

Nonsense. I almost never face a thief in WvW.

They’re always killing me from behind.

Thank you! I’m here all week!

stealth needs a rework. right now its stupid the way its done.

Mogar.9216:

regardless what the issue is stealth is killing the roaming part of WvW. I solo roam all the time, I would say 90% of the people I face are thieves . Now days it’s not even single thieves anymore it’s an arms race. Since thieves find themselves facing other thieves now thieves run in packs of 2-3 . As a soloer 1 thief is fair 2 is not beatable 3 is insane.

VOLKON.1290:

Mogar.9216:

regardless what the issue is stealth is killing the roaming part of WvW. I solo roam all the time, I would say 90% of the people I face are thieves . Now days it’s not even single thieves anymore it’s an arms race. Since thieves find themselves facing other thieves now thieves run in packs of 2-3 . As a soloer 1 thief is fair 2 is not beatable 3 is insane.

Nonsense. I almost never face a thief in WvW.

They’re always killing me from behind.

Thank you! I’m here all week!

lol…..

Stiv.1820:

Mogar.9216:

regardless what the issue is stealth is killing the roaming part of WvW. I solo roam all the time, I would say 90% of the people I face are thieves . Now days it’s not even single thieves anymore it’s an arms race. Since thieves find themselves facing other thieves now thieves run in packs of 2-3 . As a soloer 1 thief is fair 2 is not beatable 3 is insane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHgkx2w4LrY

Even if you post 100’s of videos of every class destroying the thief class you will still hear tears of the really bad players that still get beat by a GC thief.

Brome.7036:

Killimandros, thieves are not near the top of WvW OP list. If you can’t beat one thats fine. At least learn the class you are trying to get nerfed or you just sound bitter.

WvW power rankings! you heard it here first!
1. Ele
2. Mes
3. Guard
4. Thief
5. Necro/Eng
6. Ranger
7. War

Your honest opinion is that Warrior is the weakest class in WvW?

Do you actually participate in WvW?

VOLKON.1290:

Thieves can no longer C&D on walls for near perma-stealth.

Back to using chickens!

Musty.3148:

Magiofdeath.2745:

Well, this is definitely a different post – hearing about the experience from the other side (the thief side). Regardless, this will end up in linksville just like the other thief post. I agree with your post though.

Hell, I’ve been saying this for months, I stopped playing my 80 thief because it’s an imbarassingly easy class to curbstomp people with. Any of you kids playing them should be imbarrassed for picking and continuing to play such an imbarrassingly OP class.

I can stealth into a zerg, DPS someone down, restealth, stomp and SB out in about 5 seconds without taking 1 damage. I did it all the time, literally.

If I get into a fight and start getting wrecked, Just TP/SB/Stealth out, reset the fight, go back in and curbstomp the poor fool(s) that used all their cooldowns to try to kill me.

Anyone that is Pro-stealth as is is really just kidding themselves. It’s way out of whack probably because of the culling. But they really need to make a short term fix until they can get culling fixed or it’s going to cost a lot of players.

So much yes and respect for you good sir/miss.

If I, being the worst thief in the entire world (I kid you not) can run around and take down 80’s in wvw with my lvl 30 thief, before they even know I’m there, then it’s a problem.

“Oh it’s so hard to back stab”…….Really? REALLY? I can backstab pretty much anyone I run into. Apparently everyone who plays needs to ‘l2p" except thieves. Our mistake. I don’t even know what button I’m smashing half the time when I use my thief. And it doesn’t matter, cause they don’t even know who’s attacking them yet.

That much utility, and mobility, and stealth and burst all wrapped into one equals a class with no drawbacks and no counters, besides “l2p” of course.

In PvE it’s fine, I even think in sPvP it’s fine because at least they load up for a second before stealthing again, enough to ACTUALLY react. In WvW, when they are never on your screen, I can’t just react to that. I just run, cause I’m not gonna win unless I have like maybe 50 other people with me. Maybe then we can kill him. But probably not. -_-

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Brome.7036:

Killimandros, thieves are not near the top of WvW OP list. If you can’t beat one thats fine. At least learn the class you are trying to get nerfed or you just sound bitter.

WvW power rankings! you heard it here first!
1. Ele
2. Mes
3. Guard
4. Thief
5. Necro/Eng
6. Ranger
7. War

Your honest opinion is that Warrior is the weakest class in WvW?

Do you actually participate in WvW?

sPvP has artificial limits on crit damage WvW does not have. Also powering up using items like Sigil of Bloodlust doesn’t work either. Players simply do not see massive crits in sPvP like they do in WvW. Comparing the two in general doesn’t work well.

Class/build parity in sPvP is paramount because of the skirmish nature of the fighting. Classes/Builds in WvW have rolls other than skirmishing. How do we balance the utility of a portal against a thief backstab or the siege ability of an ele?

Straegen.2938:

Classes/Builds in WvW have rolls other than skirmishing. How do we balance the utility of a portal against a thief backstab or the siege ability of an ele?

While I appreciate the nuances of comparing utility…. the list was posted in the context of ‘Power Ranking’ and ‘what classes are OP’, which seems to me pretty focused on pure ganking.

That being said, what utility do necros and rangers bring that is superior to what warriors offer?

GrandmaFunk.3052:

While I appreciate the nuances of comparing utility…. the list was posted in the context of ‘Power Ranking’ and ‘what classes are OP’, which seems to me pretty focused on pure ganking.

Take a look at guardians. Solo they are good fighters. In a group they are so much more with group boons, stability, etc. Same can be said for Ele and the group quickness of a mesmer is lethal. Organized groups are powerful because of classes like these. Thieves have none of that utility and during siege are near the bottom in usefulness. They do one thing pretty much and should be expected to roll most other classes in 1v1 because that is their purpose in WvW.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

That being said, what utility do necros and rangers bring that is superior to what warriors offer?

Pair a necro with a confusion mesmer and then come talk to me. Necros also melt a variety of guardian builds and fear can be a fight turning ability. Rangers could use some love for sure but they are very good at keeping a constant stream of damage flying from inside a group of players. Played well they are also hard to kill in a group setting, have a couple of great group buffs and one of the best group heals in the game.

At the end of the day, thieves need an adjustment IMO but not a nerf. One already went in on this patch with no CnD on inanimate objects.

Roysten.3456:

Tried out the stealth heavy d/d build the other day and found out a couple of things.

It is slow and actually quite tricky to get a clean engagement.

The amount of players that are glass cannons was shocking. You don’t feel it playing conditions so it was a surprise how fast players dropped. These builds hit hard but not that hard.

It is very effective against bad players and almost suicidal against experienced players.

Its dull to play and against anyone who isn’t glass not that effective.

Culling pfft outside of big zerg fights it only seems to effect the players that stand stock still utterly unaware of their surroundings .

Back to p/d and conditions for me. Much more fun and effective to play.

P/d, and S/d(stun) are the builds that thrive on stealth traits and are the ones that would be nerfed. They aren’t the ones generally complained about. They might even be o.p. but all I read about is backstab backed up more often than not with videos of dreadful glass players dying to it.

My defensively spec’d Engineer has been dropped in under 3 seconds by a thief before. All vitality and toughness. I literally got to see the final heartseeker and that is it. No other classes has ever taken down that engineer even close to that fast. Heck I’ve eaten damage from groups of people and survived before on that build.

Most thieves are just a danger, but a few out there with honed builds melt through dang near anything like butter. I think there must be alot of thieves out there without the 2-3 really good builds trying to judge their damage. Most likely also running without the proper foods and some are possibly pre-80.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Stealth breaking on damage is like having no stealth at all.

Someone never played games like Dark Age of Camelot I see. Perma stealth that broke on damage used right was still highly effective. Those stealthers were still far more limited, less mobile, and less overall capable than GW2 thieves. Yet they still regularly got their kills and were much hated by the community because with timing and the correct targets or assisting those kills were easy.

Also I want to mention that it is viable, though much more difficult, to play a skirmish/movement based thief. Withdraw, roll for initiative, hidden pistols, shadow step, steal, infiltrator’s arrow, heartseeker, infiltrator’s strike, shadow strike. These are your available movement abilities. Utility skills are changeable to situation on the fly. One moment I can be built for general combat and the next maximum zerg vs zerg standoff ability (2 rolls + hidden pistol if I want to DEEPLY skirmish). Just by changing utility skills. I can carry an additional weapon if I wish to add another layer to that as well.

The disadvantage to that build is that you can actually be caught and killed if you bite off more than you can chew. You can no longer LOL stealth away, unless you break combat by retreating far enough away and change skills and/or weapons. Though admittedly shadow return jukes are normally very effective.

Playing with stealth? Laughably easy with any build. Condition builds deal alot of damage without breaking stealth (poison/caltrops), backstab builds are LOL easy with minimal timing/target selection, survivability builds are laughably hard to kill.

Ralathar.7236:

My defensively spec’d Engineer has been dropped in under 3 seconds by a thief before. All vitality and toughness. I literally got to see the final heartseeker and that is it. No other classes has ever taken down that engineer even close to that fast. Heck I’ve eaten damage from groups of people and survived before on that build.

The general design of the game seems to be that every build has a hard counter, even ones stacking vit/tough. If vit/toughness couldnt be countered by extreme single target burst then the game would just gravitate towards becoming Bunker Wars 2. I think more players should accept that fact (and I dont even run burst thief btw, though I love defensive builds).

Nerf it.

/15char

roamzero.9486:

Ralathar.7236:

My defensively spec’d Engineer has been dropped in under 3 seconds by a thief before. All vitality and toughness. I literally got to see the final heartseeker and that is it. No other classes has ever taken down that engineer even close to that fast. Heck I’ve eaten damage from groups of people and survived before on that build.

The general design of the game seems to be that every build has a hard counter, even ones stacking vit/tough. If vit/toughness couldnt be countered by extreme single target burst then the game would just gravitate towards becoming Bunker Wars 2. I think more players should accept that fact (and I dont even run burst thief btw, though I love defensive builds).

The main reason EVERYONE is starting to gravitate toward these tough/vit/ type builds is the thieves that instagibbed them. You know what all the LOL OMGERED backstab thieves said when people griped about how they went down so fast? “Get some toughness we are designed to take out squishy targets” Ergo people took that advice and said Okay lemme go full bunker since even a balanced spec got burned through like a hot knife through butter. Now that people are giving examples of thieves destroying their bunker specs because of the broken stealth mechanic (take mesmer bunker builds… All require some form of target for us to be effective bunkers) the thieves just dismiss it as “Oh well we are supposed to be a hard counter to that bunker spec.” No just NO… all these people started bunkering up because you told them to and that it was a hard counter… Then all these people started packing stun breaks because you told them to and claimed it was another hard counter to thieves. Now you are saying that it is working as it should be for a thief to instantly destroy you from stealth before the client even registers you are there? RIDICULOUS. Seriously get over yourselves and start to think about how OP your class is when combined with the messed up culling/rendering mechanics of WvW.

You should probably delete your signature next time you claim to play “thief class” and are “op as a thief”.

lol just go watch this video. And then find a few more on your own and tell me thieves dont have to be fixed. This is absolutly rediculous. I dont care what class you play, go try to take on 20 guys and then tell me how great your class is lol.

P.S. I used to think I can kill thieves too…but thats just because so many hacks roll thieves that half of em simply have no idea what they are doing and theey are running around with their level 20.

A guildie told me a fairly good idea last week on how to balance thieves without taking out the stealth aspect. Make it so each consecutive attack with a single skill (other than the default one) gets weaker with each use. For example, if you use 4 heartseekers in a row, the damage output would look like this:

1st use: 100%
2nd use: 90%
3rd use: 80%
4th use: 70%

Meaning the attacks would actually LOSE effectiveness, and it’d become unwise to spam the move.

@Centhis: Yeah, that guy’s doing well because he’s a pro thief. Most can’t dream of being that effective. You’ll also notice he’s very knowledgeable about his opponents and is looking for the easier targets.
Also as the thief hasn’t been nerfed and likely won’t be nerfed I think that sends a message that players should stop whining and start putting effort into improving.

This is PvP, victories aren’t supposed to be handed to players like they are in PvE. The winner is usually the one who knows more about themselves and their opponent. That’s how you get these videos of classes dominating in WvW. I’ve seen similar vids about Warriors and Eles. I can probably find similar videos about all the classes.

This would be fine except yeah that thief showed up INSTANTLY on his screen and thieves slowly render into view on the enemies screen. I am not going to say that the thief class as a whole is brokenly OP but the implementation they have of how models are rendered in WvW plus the fact that when a player goes stealth it completely removes the fact that the player is there from the enemy client is where the real problem is here. That thief was most likely visible to his enemies for 1-1.5 seconds each time… if that. So that is what makes this OP. yes he was going after the squishier looking targets blah blah blah… its a fundamental systemic flaw right now.

Edit: yeah this is PvP and wins shouldn’t be handed to players but 9 times out of 10 they are handed to a thief whether they want to admit it or not.

lol find one about Rangers (I did find an awesome Ele vid where a girl is just owning raids of people) But Dual, I totally get what your saying. the problem is, this guy is going against mobs of enemies. No class no matter how well its played should be able to take on 30 enemies and survive. Maybe get a kill and then die…And furthermore, if he wasnt pro..if he just mashed his 2 button, he could still do this, maybe not against 30 guys but still against staggering odds. And I really dont want to sound like Im whining but come on, not everyone getting owned in that video was a bad player.

Culling = issue. Not stealth.

Xsorus.2507:

Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.

Are you sure you’re not describing D/D eles?

LOCO.1785:

Culling = issue. Not stealth.

Xsorus.2507:

Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.

Are you sure you’re not describing D/D eles?

Exactly… well kind of exactly… The combination of how the stealth mechanic works in this game plus culling is what makes it terrible… I’d prefer they find a way to get a hard fix to culling then see how the thief complaints proceed… Also before anyone says it only happens in zergs.. it happens in small 1v1s as well its just how the system works… Several times I am fighting a thief and you can see the animation from his pistol shots but the model and ability to target is just not there yet…

People talk about culling like it’ll be fixed next week. 7 something months now. Its very possible it will never be fixed

You ppl are kitten for this… u do releize that stealth exsist in almost all morpgs?? U all think its bad on here then dont every play daoc or wow, prob just rage quit lol… the thiefs job in pvp, wvw, whatever is the same as any other game… they are there to thin the herd, just like a lion, do u think he goes after the biggest strongest wildabeast in the herd no he goes after the weak sickly one… that is the thief, shame on u ppl!

Ranger.

Acelerion.6820:

People talk about culling like it’ll be fixed next week. 7 something months now. Its very possible it will never be fixed

if this be the case than the thief class needs to have certain mechanics changed. This would entail some nerfs but also several buffs… And new abilities… I would rather Anet admit that something is wrong rather than the simple moving of it to another thread… Mesmers and rangers and Engi’s all have some access to stealth but not as spammable as the thief and the only bonus we get from being in stealth is just that well you can’t see us. Thieves get huge bonuses for being in stealth plus the ability to move 50% faster while stealthed while still having the 25% speed increase from sig of midnight… This is faster than any other consistent speed boost in game.

Spyder.9713:

You ppl are kitten for this… u do releize that stealth exsist in almost all morpgs?? U all think its bad on here then dont every play daoc or wow, prob just rage quit lol… the thiefs job in pvp, wvw, whatever is the same as any other game… they are there to thin the herd, just like a lion, do u think he goes after the biggest strongest wildabeast in the herd no he goes after the weak sickly one… that is the thief, shame on u ppl!

Read a few posts above where thieves claimed that they were supposed to be hard counters to the bunkers that they can bring down so quick. Please. I beg you.

Dual, great link. Maybe Ill try his spec. And even though those guys he was fighting were laughable, it was still impressive.

Xsorus.2507:

PVE it’s fine, even in structured it’s fine to some extent.

However in World vs World, I can flat out say..Stealth needs to be changed.

Now I know some people are going to be like “Oh look someone died in pvp to a stealther and now is whining”

Actually, its the opposite..I just got done playing my Thief in world vs world…and frankly i’m disgusted how easy it is to play the class out there.

Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.

There is no real disadvantage to playing the class at all….

So as a thief, I’m asking Anet to actually nerf stealth in world vs world..Make it somewhat challenging at least..

I completely agree. But I’m not a thief, just a simple ele who is sick of running at the front of a Zerg and still being absolutely decimated by an invisible power. It is not just that I have low health and armour, because I have a survival/condition ele so tanking is not a problem, it’s the bloody backstabbing thieves who crit 16ks and run. But don’t nerf stealth, nerf the backstabbing effect.

Edit: Look how excited at the end he is that he 1v1’d me. lol

I did come close to winning that player vs air battle though by dropping stuns and knockbacks on…. nothing and hoping he was there. Awesome game ANet. Very fun for both parties involved!

HeNnAz.8913:

Xsorus.2507:

PVE it’s fine, even in structured it’s fine to some extent.

However in World vs World, I can flat out say..Stealth needs to be changed.

Now I know some people are going to be like “Oh look someone died in pvp to a stealther and now is whining”

Actually, its the opposite..I just got done playing my Thief in world vs world…and frankly i’m disgusted how easy it is to play the class out there.

Not only am I able to stomp on pretty much everyone I come across solo…I can frankly attack large groups of people with ease, and either kill a lot of them, or get away whenever I want.

There is no real disadvantage to playing the class at all….

So as a thief, I’m asking Anet to actually nerf stealth in world vs world..Make it somewhat challenging at least..

I completely agree. But I’m not a thief, just a simple ele who is sick of running at the front of a Zerg and still being absolutely decimated by an invisible power. It is not just that I have low health and armour, because I have a survival/condition ele so tanking is not a problem, it’s the bloody backstabbing thieves who crit 16ks and run. But don’t nerf stealth, nerf the backstabbing effect.

I disagree. Nerf stealth. Mesmers don’t have backstabs and it is just as ridiculous. It is easily the best survival mechanic in the game. In a game with so many people on a battlefield (WvW) stealth being used every 3 seconds is completely ridiculous for everyone who doesn’t have stealth.

That tired argument that thieves will be defenseless without the ability to disappear every three seconds… Then give them more endurance for dodging. (Something that involves timing and player skill.) I know I’m a rocket scientist problem solver.

What if Stealth did not make character truly invisible?

Instead:

• makes your toon have that glassy/transparent appearance to enemies and friends
• still allows access to all Thief stealthed-only skills
• hides telegraphing skill use
• protects from all directed attacks (Miss)

Pros

• Enemy would not lose target – no desperate random TAB re-targetting.
• Enemy client’s GPU would have the stealthed unit rendered all the time – no culling/loading textures delay.
• Enemy would know who/what killed them – less whining.
• Enemy would have it easier to track and catch escaping thief – no more 100% risk free fights.

Cons

• Backstab would be difficult to land.
• Some PvE content would become unskippable (don’t know if this is good or bad).