Guild Wars 2

No class should be able to go stealth 90% of a fight, and one that puts out so much burst damage.

Maybe if all classes could go stealth as much as a thief, why not? fair is fair right?

Wow, there are a lot of bad Thieves in here. You should rarely, if ever die as a Thief. If you do, don’t post in this thread because you are bad.

Joshiasi.2840:

I would trade all my stealth utility for 1 perma stealth until you attack like in other MMOs!! I could finally have a reason to use other utility skills other than the usual blinding powder and refuge!!

Surely not.

I play a thief, and giving up all our current stealth tools for 1 perma stealth with a long cooldown would be a huge nerf.

Stealth needs a nerf but not that big a nerf.

xiv.7136:

Joshiasi.2840:

I would trade all my stealth utility for 1 perma stealth until you attack like in other MMOs!! I could finally have a reason to use other utility skills other than the usual blinding powder and refuge!!

Surely not.

I play a thief, and giving up all our current stealth tools for 1 perma stealth with a long cooldown would be a huge nerf.

Stealth needs a nerf but not that big a nerf.

Well if the cd will be long like 2-3 mins then its a no go. 1 min cd max is fine as you can walk around wvwvw or pve with ease since you can never be detected and just attack whoever you choose without fear of going out of stealth in a matter of seconds.

I think having a perma stealth skill will be more OP than the current stealth system that we have since hiding inside enemy keeps will be much easier and just following enemy zergs to scout their movements along side them without them realizing you are there will have huge implications in wvwvw. And who would not want just going into maps to complete their world completions perma stealthed without having to deal with aggros! :P

I run a bunker style Thief now, with very little stealth, running primary sword to teleport around, and confuse the enemy. My bunker Thief outperforms my bunker Guardian, and Bunker Warrior ten-fold. Thieves who know how to play the class will be perfectly fine.

Even running very little, to no stealth, I die rarely, if at all. Hell, I have more stealth on my Mesmer now, than I do my Thief.

Quit being bads, and learn the Thief please. You don’t need stealth to win fights.

Eh, here’s the view of a D/D bunker hybrid Ele, the so called other OP class ( we got nerfed big time this patch with unposted stuff but that’s another story ).

DISCLAIMER: I’m well aware that as a D/D my opinion will be viewed as bias and not wanting competition so feel free to ignore if you that’s what you want.

Scenario #1: I’m standing alone or running around unaware. Suddenly I get frozen in place by venom. I’m weary of thieves since they’re all over the place so I typically mistform and see a bunch of invulnerable pop up from them doing their little stunt. They stealth away after they fail their burst and I AoE the entire area away ( #1 of what thieves say one should do in that situation ) I dodge roughly 3 seconds in, in case they’re still around. 30% of the time they are, 70% of the time they’re not. 90% of the time they back off regardless, either earlier of after the AoE blanket. Difference in this case is that while they reset, har har, I expended my primary AoEs weeding him out and most likely my heal. Most cases I just RtL away since fighting will take far far FAR too long.

Scenario #2: I catch a thief unaware. I RtL to him and unload the normal routine, this typically works on thieves moreso than other classes. Don’t ask me why, just noticed this was the case. Anyways, as I am a bunker, as are most eles that are complained about, the full combo on a glass cannon thief will bring him down to roughly 25% hp. In most if not all cases, the thief will instantly stealth, run away, heal up, and go gank some other person.

I have nothing against thieves other than the prolonged stealth. I’m personally far decaying stealth where stealth gets progressively worse the more time it’s used during battle, they still get to keep their trademark backstab burst and the ability to run/reset stealth decay but they won’t be able to troll large zergs or stay hidden indefinitely during a fight.

@oZii, he makes a great point in what I was trying to tell these very oblvious people.

The game type we are talking about is capture the point—I am pretty sure Anet knew what they were doing when they made stealth and available feature in this game type. Stealth means you can get away it doesn’t make you impossible to kill—especially if you are in a zerg or decent group. Do you really expect to go to war in the open battlefield and not get sniped? Or let alone (fantasy-wise) get assassinated? Run in a group, capture points.

Stealth has very little to no affect in gaining major points for WvW. And that’s why it’s not imbalanced in WvW. Balance should only be necessary if it actually affects winning or losing the game guys. -_- But a stealthed thief annoying a group and killing one or two guys doesn’t give you more points than a small group holding off a thief while killing a camp veteran.

And also I’m surprised no one is manning up to ask what they can do to which they cannot see. Because there are ways to live against these unseeable things and prevent them from recloaking.

I actually like the idea of the phase thing. Could change shadow refuge to not drop stealth if you leave it early and leave the stacking the longer you stay in it.

Stealth should still drop target initially as that’s a major use for both thieves and mesmers.

All the videos I see posted are people posting vids on some of the most skilled thiefs out there, or posting vids of them losing to thiefs, when they are using a build that may be the weakest to fight a thief.

tl;dr – Different builds fair better against thiefs than other builds. If your constantly losing to a thief, rethink your build and use a different one. Or die, and deal with it.

iCryptik.1496:

All the videos I see posted are people posting vids on some of the most skilled thiefs out there, or posting vids of them losing to thiefs, when they are using a build that may be the weakest to fight a thief.

tl;dr – Different builds fair better against thiefs than other builds. If your constantly losing to a thief, rethink your build and use a different one. Or die, and deal with it.

Funny that huh. Xsorus posted a video of himself, on his thief.

Also, if you want to talk about balance, please really considering spvping and THEN complain about stealth. As far as I know, CULLING is the issue, which can be procced by huge zergs, mesmers, etc, not just thieves. It’s really childish to blame your problems on one class when it’s caused by more than one thing. If you can show me a pvp match where you are getting murdered in pvp, I’ll believe stealth is a problem then. But last I checked, they aren’t making the top 3 list in pvp.

To the OP.

Good stuff. I had been wondering about a class to move to since capping a guard (Which I love), and after what tuned out to be a rather dismal run with several other class, because I like to jump into the fray and mix it up, but, it seems, beyond a AH Guard, not much can do that and live, but after watching the vids, I think thief might be right up my ally.

Thank you!

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Also, if you want to talk about balance, please really considering spvping and THEN complain about stealth. As far as I know, CULLING is the issue, which can be procced by huge zergs, mesmers, etc, not just thieves. It’s really childish to blame your problems on one class when it’s caused by more than one thing. If you can show me a pvp match where you are getting murdered in pvp, I’ll believe stealth is a problem then. But last I checked, they aren’t making the top 3 list in pvp.

It must really suck that you suck at playing the Thief. They do not need stealth. I run more stealth on my Mesmer, than I do my Thief now. With our Shortbow teleport, and the Sword “2” teleport you should hardly ever die in a PvP fight.

I wish people would really get good with Thieves. There are so many bad ones out there, it isn’t funny.

Joshiasi.2840:

xiv.7136:

Joshiasi.2840:

I would trade all my stealth utility for 1 perma stealth until you attack like in other MMOs!! I could finally have a reason to use other utility skills other than the usual blinding powder and refuge!!

Surely not.

I play a thief, and giving up all our current stealth tools for 1 perma stealth with a long cooldown would be a huge nerf.

Stealth needs a nerf but not that big a nerf.

Well if the cd will be long like 2-3 mins then its a no go. 1 min cd max is fine as you can walk around wvwvw or pve with ease since you can never be detected and just attack whoever you choose without fear of going out of stealth in a matter of seconds.

I think having a perma stealth skill will be more OP than the current stealth system that we have since hiding inside enemy keeps will be much easier and just following enemy zergs to scout their movements along side them without them realizing you are there will have huge implications in wvwvw. And who would not want just going into maps to complete their world completions perma stealthed without having to deal with aggros! :P

You won’t be able to restealth, at all, for 1 entire minute, after engaging.

Do you play a thief? That would invalidate an entire trait line, and mess with several others.

I think stealth needs to be nerfed, but not that hard.

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Also, if you want to talk about balance, please really considering spvping and THEN complain about stealth. As far as I know, CULLING is the issue, which can be procced by huge zergs, mesmers, etc, not just thieves. It’s really childish to blame your problems on one class when it’s caused by more than one thing. If you can show me a pvp match where you are getting murdered in pvp, I’ll believe stealth is a problem then. But last I checked, they aren’t making the top 3 list in pvp.

It must really suck that you suck at playing the Thief. They do not need stealth. I run more stealth on my Mesmer, than I do my Thief now. With our Shortbow teleport, and the Sword “2” teleport you should hardly ever die in a PvP fight.

I wish people would really get good with Thieves. There are so many bad ones out there, it isn’t funny.

Lol, way to call me out when I wasn’t even being negative towards you—I just disagree with the stuff claimed in this thread due to my expereiences. But yes, let’s call my thief bad. Too bad there’s not 1v1s because I’d like to prove a point as opposed to thinking I know what’s up. -_-

Also I dare you to make a pvp post about the thief being one of the best in pvp in the spvp forums. And if the response is in your favor, I’ll give you that.

Heck, why are you even arguing with me, I’m trying to say stealth doesn’t make the thief OP. And you are telling me the thief doesn’t need stealth to be good. Are we not on the same page?

ArcTheFallen.7682:

@oZii, he makes a great point in what I was trying to tell these very oblvious people.

The game type we are talking about is capture the point—I am pretty sure Anet knew what they were doing when they made stealth and available feature in this game type. Stealth means you can get away it doesn’t make you impossible to kill—especially if you are in a zerg or decent group. Do you really expect to go to war in the open battlefield and not get sniped? Or let alone (fantasy-wise) get assassinated? Run in a group, capture points.

Stealth has very little to no affect in gaining major points for WvW. And that’s why it’s not imbalanced in WvW. Balance should only be necessary if it actually affects winning or losing the game guys. -_- But a stealthed thief annoying a group and killing one or two guys doesn’t give you more points than a small group holding off a thief while killing a camp veteran.

And also I’m surprised no one is manning up to ask what they can do to which they cannot see. Because there are ways to live against these unseeable things and prevent them from recloaking.

His point is silly, Class Balance is needed in PvP, even if its just for “points”

I could of easily called for reinforcements for an already out gunned side to get screwed over..

We have over 80k points over that team already…

jkctmc.8754:

. They do not need stealth. I run more stealth on my Mesmer, than I do my Thief now. With our Shortbow teleport, and the Sword “2” teleport you should hardly ever die in a PvP fight.

I wish people would really get good with Thieves. There are so many bad ones out there, it isn’t funny.

Even bad thieves can be effective. Its the pub stomp class. Everything you do forces stun breaks so just add on every fight you see until you find people with cool downs. If you guess wrong just wilson out, as you mentioned there is no reason to ever die to anything but other thieves. And then only sometimes.

Xsorus.2507:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

@oZii, he makes a great point in what I was trying to tell these very oblvious people.

The game type we are talking about is capture the point—I am pretty sure Anet knew what they were doing when they made stealth and available feature in this game type. Stealth means you can get away it doesn’t make you impossible to kill—especially if you are in a zerg or decent group. Do you really expect to go to war in the open battlefield and not get sniped? Or let alone (fantasy-wise) get assassinated? Run in a group, capture points.

Stealth has very little to no affect in gaining major points for WvW. And that’s why it’s not imbalanced in WvW. Balance should only be necessary if it actually affects winning or losing the game guys. -_- But a stealthed thief annoying a group and killing one or two guys doesn’t give you more points than a small group holding off a thief while killing a camp veteran.

And also I’m surprised no one is manning up to ask what they can do to which they cannot see. Because there are ways to live against these unseeable things and prevent them from recloaking.

His point is silly, Class Balance is needed in PvP, even if its just for “points”

I could of easily called for reinforcements for an already out gunned side to get screwed over..

We have over 80k points over that team already…

I think you are simplfying WvW though. A lot of factors go into the thieves advantages, it’s not a balance issue. Let’s say WvW was a map of at most 3000 units. Would finding a thief and killing him be bad? Prob not. WvW is so huge, the thief could use a number of areas as a window to escape. That’s one advantage.

The issue with culling, that’s another advantage. All this is present because WvW is a huge warring world, with many people there. The game type is making the thief better than he normally is (if not decent already). So balancing a class due to it’s effectiveness by external factors, not really the class itself is not a good move on a dev part.

The only really good suggestion for this fix is to load the name tags before the model, hopefully eliminating total blindness when they thief is supposed to be out of cloak.

And asking to change WvW’s game type is really out of the question. So it’s best to just play the game of coordination, defending keeps, and capturing points, not the mini-game of deatmatches.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Also, if you want to talk about balance, please really considering spvping and THEN complain about stealth. As far as I know, CULLING is the issue, which can be procced by huge zergs, mesmers, etc, not just thieves. It’s really childish to blame your problems on one class when it’s caused by more than one thing. If you can show me a pvp match where you are getting murdered in pvp, I’ll believe stealth is a problem then. But last I checked, they aren’t making the top 3 list in pvp.

It must really suck that you suck at playing the Thief. They do not need stealth. I run more stealth on my Mesmer, than I do my Thief now. With our Shortbow teleport, and the Sword “2” teleport you should hardly ever die in a PvP fight.

I wish people would really get good with Thieves. There are so many bad ones out there, it isn’t funny.

Lol, way to call me out when I wasn’t even being negative towards you—I just disagree with the stuff claimed in this thread due to my expereiences. But yes, let’s call my thief bad. Too bad there’s not 1v1s because I’d like to prove a point as opposed to thinking I know what’s up. -_-

Also I dare you to make a pvp post about the thief being one of the best in pvp in the spvp forums. And if the response is in your favor, I’ll give you that.

Heck, why are you even arguing with me, I’m trying to say stealth doesn’t make the thief OP. And you are telling me the thief doesn’t need stealth to be good. Are we not on the same page?

So, your point here is that with an already overpowered class, you can one vs one anyone? I must say that “to prove a point”thingy rather shows how unbalanced it is than not, you know unless hes a thief himself, you will either win or draw…Ye man-pro, go show them

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus.2507:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

@oZii, he makes a great point in what I was trying to tell these very oblvious people.

The game type we are talking about is capture the point—I am pretty sure Anet knew what they were doing when they made stealth and available feature in this game type. Stealth means you can get away it doesn’t make you impossible to kill—especially if you are in a zerg or decent group. Do you really expect to go to war in the open battlefield and not get sniped? Or let alone (fantasy-wise) get assassinated? Run in a group, capture points.

Stealth has very little to no affect in gaining major points for WvW. And that’s why it’s not imbalanced in WvW. Balance should only be necessary if it actually affects winning or losing the game guys. -_- But a stealthed thief annoying a group and killing one or two guys doesn’t give you more points than a small group holding off a thief while killing a camp veteran.

And also I’m surprised no one is manning up to ask what they can do to which they cannot see. Because there are ways to live against these unseeable things and prevent them from recloaking.

His point is silly, Class Balance is needed in PvP, even if its just for “points”

I could of easily called for reinforcements for an already out gunned side to get screwed over..

We have over 80k points over that team already…

I think you are simplfying WvW though. A lot of factors go into the thieves advantages, it’s not a balance issue. Let’s say WvW was a map of at most 3000 units. Would finding a thief and killing him be bad? Prob not. WvW is so huge, the thief could use a number of areas as a window to escape. That’s one advantage.

The issue with culling, that’s another advantage. All this is present because WvW is a huge warring world, with many people there. The game type is making the thief better than he normally is (if not decent already). So balancing a class due to it’s effectiveness by external factors, not really the class itself is not a good move on a dev part.

The only really good suggestion for this fix is to load the name tags before the model, hopefully eliminating total blindness when they thief is supposed to be out of cloak.

And asking to change WvW’s game type is really out of the question. So it’s best to just play the game of coordination, defending keeps, and capturing points, not the mini-game of deatmatches.

If this is how wvw gonna end up, then I am out. Me and my guild enjoy more roamiing fighting in the field than the slow stale treb bombing walls, repairing, trying a golem rush every now and then. Thats the german servers tactic isnt it? Bunker up etc. tiring the opponent out. Thats not what I want from this game, and its not the only way to play it either.

One change I’d like to see in WvW is to remove the fade-in effect for character models coming out stealth. It lasts only about half a second, but it is distracting and gives a slight advantage to the person coming out of stealth. I assume it exists mostly for cosmetic purposes.

If a nerf to stealth was in order, my preference would be to add the reverse effect : a 0.5s fade-out to character models entering stealth.

However I think stealth should be left alone until the culling improves on all front. It could be months until we see improvements but in the meantime I shall deal with it :p

I tend to agree that stealth needs some rebalancing. As it stands I’m finding it far too easy running rings around my opponents whilst dishing out decent amounts of damage as my Mesmer. The problem is, even if my opponents are actually managing to hit me, there’s no feedback on any of those hits and there’s nothing satisfying about swinging your weapons around attacking thin air. Maybe there should be a partial reveal when you land a hit on an opponent in stealth? This way using stealth requires more finesse. I don’t think stealth should drop when hit, but I think there should definitely be more feedback and ‘reward’ for players who successfully land hits on a stealthed opponent.

xiv.7136:

Joshiasi.2840:

xiv.7136:

Joshiasi.2840:

I would trade all my stealth utility for 1 perma stealth until you attack like in other MMOs!! I could finally have a reason to use other utility skills other than the usual blinding powder and refuge!!

Surely not.

I play a thief, and giving up all our current stealth tools for 1 perma stealth with a long cooldown would be a huge nerf.

Stealth needs a nerf but not that big a nerf.

Well if the cd will be long like 2-3 mins then its a no go. 1 min cd max is fine as you can walk around wvwvw or pve with ease since you can never be detected and just attack whoever you choose without fear of going out of stealth in a matter of seconds.

I think having a perma stealth skill will be more OP than the current stealth system that we have since hiding inside enemy keeps will be much easier and just following enemy zergs to scout their movements along side them without them realizing you are there will have huge implications in wvwvw. And who would not want just going into maps to complete their world completions perma stealthed without having to deal with aggros! :P

You won’t be able to restealth, at all, for 1 entire minute, after engaging.

Do you play a thief? That would invalidate an entire trait line, and mess with several others.

I think stealth needs to be nerfed, but not that hard.

Just like many MMOs out there. So you have to be smart when to engage. I mean you can be invisible while the skill cd is running and engage when the cd is up so you can hit then re-use the stealth skill to run away. The 1 min I mentioned in my comment is the CD and in no way I mention not being able to restealth in 1 min after engaging.

I do play a thief FYI. I run a 10/30/30/0/0 d/p + sb build that relies on mobility.

killimandros.5087:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Also, if you want to talk about balance, please really considering spvping and THEN complain about stealth. As far as I know, CULLING is the issue, which can be procced by huge zergs, mesmers, etc, not just thieves. It’s really childish to blame your problems on one class when it’s caused by more than one thing. If you can show me a pvp match where you are getting murdered in pvp, I’ll believe stealth is a problem then. But last I checked, they aren’t making the top 3 list in pvp.

It must really suck that you suck at playing the Thief. They do not need stealth. I run more stealth on my Mesmer, than I do my Thief now. With our Shortbow teleport, and the Sword “2” teleport you should hardly ever die in a PvP fight.

I wish people would really get good with Thieves. There are so many bad ones out there, it isn’t funny.

Lol, way to call me out when I wasn’t even being negative towards you—I just disagree with the stuff claimed in this thread due to my expereiences. But yes, let’s call my thief bad. Too bad there’s not 1v1s because I’d like to prove a point as opposed to thinking I know what’s up. -_-

Also I dare you to make a pvp post about the thief being one of the best in pvp in the spvp forums. And if the response is in your favor, I’ll give you that.

Heck, why are you even arguing with me, I’m trying to say stealth doesn’t make the thief OP. And you are telling me the thief doesn’t need stealth to be good. Are we not on the same page?

So, your point here is that with an already overpowered class, you can one vs one anyone? I must say that “to prove a point”thingy rather shows how unbalanced it is than not, you know unless hes a thief himself, you will either win or draw…Ye man-pro, go show them

Jumping the gun, and he made claims about a s/p thief if you read. I meant 1v1ing with any class, it doesn’t have to be thief. I have all professions at lvl80 thank you. lol.

On your other post, I’m sorry to say, but that’s what WvW is about. If you don’t like the effects of culling, don’t play til it’s fixed. If you don’t like thief, then there has to be really a concrete case where they are obviously OP. As far as I know, they are good, really good. But they aren’t the best. D/d eles by far are one of the strongest in pvp from most posts. Most posts about thieves are wvw related and ganking/caught off guard related, which is really a L2P issue sad to say as much as I dislike hearing it.

Also, stick to one thing or another, you keep on hinting how much dislike you have with thieves especially and how OP they are but you talk about culling as the problem. Thieves are not OP. Culling is OP. Get that straight.

I’m still liking the idea of “phasing” of the thief, kind of like Dodge… but not Dodge.

Xsorus.2507:

I’m still liking the idea of “phasing” of the thief, kind of like Dodge… but not Dodge.

I would like to add a suggestion of seeing damage output pop up when you hit them in stealth, so you have some sort of feedback. Ofc leave the condition damage out because that would let them know their exact location and defeat the purpose of stealth. But having some sort of feedback is good.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus.2507:

I’m still liking the idea of “phasing” of the thief, kind of like Dodge… but not Dodge.

I would like to add a suggestion of seeing damage output pop up when you hit them in stealth, so you have some sort of feedback. Ofc leave the condition damage out because that would let them know their exact location and defeat the purpose of stealth. But having some sort of feedback is good.

Yea makes sense, I mean you would know if you hit something right? I really dont like the lack of any feedback either, makes it seem very futile.

The main issue/source of frustration with the thief class is that thieves don’t have to finish fights that they start while their opponents rarely have that option. If a thief opens on someone and the fight starts to go bad they can just leave and re-engage after cooldowns are refreshed or leave completely to find a softer target. If the fight goes bad for the other player they rarely have the option of breaking off combat from the thief due to the thief’s superior mobility.

Stealth clearly needs to be nerfed whether my fellow thieves think it’s fair or not. Stealthing mid-combat over and over while your opponent can only wail about hoping to get a lucky shot in is just a silly mechanic. Any thief who actually dies while doing this is simply horrible. There is no risk unless you are noticeably outnumbered.

Fighting someone who has to have a heart attack or a seizure in order for you to win just isn’t fun for some people.

Joshiasi.2840:

xiv.7136:

Joshiasi.2840:

xiv.7136:

Joshiasi.2840:

I would trade all my stealth utility for 1 perma stealth until you attack like in other MMOs!! I could finally have a reason to use other utility skills other than the usual blinding powder and refuge!!

Surely not.

I play a thief, and giving up all our current stealth tools for 1 perma stealth with a long cooldown would be a huge nerf.

Stealth needs a nerf but not that big a nerf.

Well if the cd will be long like 2-3 mins then its a no go. 1 min cd max is fine as you can walk around wvwvw or pve with ease since you can never be detected and just attack whoever you choose without fear of going out of stealth in a matter of seconds.

I think having a perma stealth skill will be more OP than the current stealth system that we have since hiding inside enemy keeps will be much easier and just following enemy zergs to scout their movements along side them without them realizing you are there will have huge implications in wvwvw. And who would not want just going into maps to complete their world completions perma stealthed without having to deal with aggros! :P

You won’t be able to restealth, at all, for 1 entire minute, after engaging.

Do you play a thief? That would invalidate an entire trait line, and mess with several others.

I think stealth needs to be nerfed, but not that hard.

Just like many MMOs out there. So you have to be smart when to engage. I mean you can be invisible while the skill cd is running and engage when the cd is up so you can hit then re-use the stealth skill to run away. The 1 min I mentioned in my comment is the CD and in no way I mention not being able to restealth in 1 min after engaging.

I do play a thief FYI. I run a 10/30/30/0/0 d/p + sb build that relies on mobility.

OK you make a fair point, but there would still need to be a rework of a lot of traits. Possible though.

There is the idea of giving visual feedback of hits while in stealth, so you would still get numbers or something.

We can all run circles around the stealth issue as the root problem but ultimately stealth is not a problem in sPvP balance so why should it be in WvW? Culling and over-stacked damage are the two items no present in sPvP.

I also believe Anet has access to reams of stats on items such as class DPS, class kills, K/D ratios, etc. I would also guess they check stats like these fairly regularly. The only class they have called out recently were elementalists which IMO in WvW are way more powerful than thieves just not as annoying.

jkctmc.8754:

iCryptik.1496:

All the videos I see posted are people posting vids on some of the most skilled thiefs out there, or posting vids of them losing to thiefs, when they are using a build that may be the weakest to fight a thief.

tl;dr – Different builds fair better against thiefs than other builds. If your constantly losing to a thief, rethink your build and use a different one. Or die, and deal with it.

Funny that huh. Xsorus posted a video of himself, on his thief.

I don’t get what’s “funny” about it. I’m not really sure what your insinuating really. A good thief is a deadly opponent, they are tricky to counter, but can be countered. I main multiple lvl 80’s and have every class except engi and thief to 80. I have learned over time that if I use X build on this class, I’ll have trouble with class A, B, and sometimes C, but not D – E – F – or G.

The point I’m making is that certain builds are strong against certain class types, while being weak against others. If you find yourself losing to X or Y class, use a build that strongly counters that class.

If you don’t, then you deserve to be killed by a thief or any other class.

Rock/paper/scissors is no way to balance a game

Make stealth a boon that can be stripped, and if stripped gives the revealed debuff as well.

That’s one way to bandaid-fix it.

iCryptik.1496:

jkctmc.8754:

iCryptik.1496:

All the videos I see posted are people posting vids on some of the most skilled thiefs out there, or posting vids of them losing to thiefs, when they are using a build that may be the weakest to fight a thief.

tl;dr – Different builds fair better against thiefs than other builds. If your constantly losing to a thief, rethink your build and use a different one. Or die, and deal with it.

Funny that huh. Xsorus posted a video of himself, on his thief.

I don’t get what’s “funny” about it. I’m not really sure what your insinuating really. A good thief is a deadly opponent, they are tricky to counter, but can be countered. I main multiple lvl 80’s and have every class except engi and thief to 80. I have learned over time that if I use X build on this class, I’ll have trouble with class A, B, and sometimes C, but not D – E – F – or G.

The point I’m making is that certain builds are strong against certain class types, while being weak against others. If you find yourself losing to X or Y class, use a build that strongly counters that class.

If you don’t, then you deserve to be killed by a thief or any other class.

I didn’t realize I would have to retrait every time I ran into a different profession. Hell they should make a consumable that spawns a retrait trainer so I can just pop it in the middle of a field when I see a thief, and quickly switch to that build that will defeat him!

tl;dr Thief is Ez Mode for bad players, a good thief will never die, stealth is Op.

Ranger pets don’t lose aggro on stealth anymore.
Just take a bunch of ranger pets and sick em on someone.
Since npc’s aren’t affected by your culling.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

jkctmc.8754:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Also, if you want to talk about balance, please really considering spvping and THEN complain about stealth. As far as I know, CULLING is the issue, which can be procced by huge zergs, mesmers, etc, not just thieves. It’s really childish to blame your problems on one class when it’s caused by more than one thing. If you can show me a pvp match where you are getting murdered in pvp, I’ll believe stealth is a problem then. But last I checked, they aren’t making the top 3 list in pvp.

It must really suck that you suck at playing the Thief. They do not need stealth. I run more stealth on my Mesmer, than I do my Thief now. With our Shortbow teleport, and the Sword “2” teleport you should hardly ever die in a PvP fight.

I wish people would really get good with Thieves. There are so many bad ones out there, it isn’t funny.

Lol, way to call me out when I wasn’t even being negative towards you—I just disagree with the stuff claimed in this thread due to my expereiences. But yes, let’s call my thief bad. Too bad there’s not 1v1s because I’d like to prove a point as opposed to thinking I know what’s up. -_-

Also I dare you to make a pvp post about the thief being one of the best in pvp in the spvp forums. And if the response is in your favor, I’ll give you that.

Heck, why are you even arguing with me, I’m trying to say stealth doesn’t make the thief OP. And you are telling me the thief doesn’t need stealth to be good. Are we not on the same page?

This is the WvW forums, NOT the nerfed, and dumbed down state sPvP is. Why would you even bring up the boring aspect of sPvP, in the WvW forums?

iCryptik.1496:

jkctmc.8754:

iCryptik.1496:

All the videos I see posted are people posting vids on some of the most skilled thiefs out there, or posting vids of them losing to thiefs, when they are using a build that may be the weakest to fight a thief.

tl;dr – Different builds fair better against thiefs than other builds. If your constantly losing to a thief, rethink your build and use a different one. Or die, and deal with it.

Funny that huh. Xsorus posted a video of himself, on his thief.

I don’t get what’s “funny” about it. I’m not really sure what your insinuating really. A good thief is a deadly opponent, they are tricky to counter, but can be countered. I main multiple lvl 80’s and have every class except engi and thief to 80. I have learned over time that if I use X build on this class, I’ll have trouble with class A, B, and sometimes C, but not D – E – F – or G.

The point I’m making is that certain builds are strong against certain class types, while being weak against others. If you find yourself losing to X or Y class, use a build that strongly counters that class.

If you don’t, then you deserve to be killed by a thief or any other class.

You completely miss the point. You said that people are losing to Thieves, yet Xsorus you know the original poster you insulted puts up a video of his Thief, you know him playing the Thief, doing the very things he thinks is overpowered, and you still believe it is because he died to a Thief, without watching his videos of killing Thieves on his Ranger, you know one of the weakest classes in WvW.

I mean seriously. I rarely if ever die on my Thief. With over 10k kills, I have less than 100 deaths.

How in the world do you die on your Thief?

jkctmc.8754:

I run a bunker style Thief now, with very little stealth, running primary sword to teleport around, and confuse the enemy. My bunker Thief outperforms my bunker Guardian, and Bunker Warrior ten-fold. Thieves who know how to play the class will be perfectly fine.

Even running very little, to no stealth, I die rarely, if at all. Hell, I have more stealth on my Mesmer now, than I do my Thief.

Quit being bads, and learn the Thief please. You don’t need stealth to win fights.

“This is what a good Thief looks like, and how noobish he makes the Ranger class look”

You made the above comment in response to a dagger/dagger thief video. The thief in the video uses stealth heavily.

So what is it? Is the thief in the video bad and need to learn the thief??? Make up your mind.

Sifu.6527:

jkctmc.8754:

I run a bunker style Thief now, with very little stealth, running primary sword to teleport around, and confuse the enemy. My bunker Thief outperforms my bunker Guardian, and Bunker Warrior ten-fold. Thieves who know how to play the class will be perfectly fine.

Even running very little, to no stealth, I die rarely, if at all. Hell, I have more stealth on my Mesmer now, than I do my Thief.

Quit being bads, and learn the Thief please. You don’t need stealth to win fights.

“This is what a good Thief looks like, and how noobish he makes the Ranger class look”

You made the above comment in response to a dagger/dagger thief video. The thief in the video uses stealth heavily.

So what is it? Is the thief in the video bad and need to learn the thief??? Make up your mind.

Dagger/Dagger would would use stealth heavily.

Though the fights are generally over much much quicker.

By the way, I’m not amazing on the thief…..I screw up multiple times while playing in that video…and I mean a whole lot..

Yet I’m still able to do quite well, because the Thief in general doesn’t require much skill to play.

If you’re curious about how much i’ve actually played my thief.

I have 117 Hours on him.

killimandros.5087:

asccording to this discussion, around 95% of all players NOT playing thieves, are so bad they really shouldnt be allowed to plat this game. On the other hand 100% of all thieves are so GOOD and PRO mensa will send you an auto invite if you roll thief in gw2

^ this is how it is in every thread where people are in denial stealth is terribly executed in this game. In pre release interviews the developers cited WoW rogues as being OP because they had perma stealth and could lie in wait… And then they use one opener and they are stuck fighting you…

GW2 version: The exact same as a WoW rogue except they can rinse and repeat every 3 seconds with more burst damage. And if things go wrong they have umpteen million resets. GJ ANet. YOU NAILED IT!

I understand they want to keep “class roles” and whatnot so they don’t want to homogenize all classes into having the same abilities. However, if you’re going to give one class 4 different “oops I messed up time to reset the fight” buttons. That is blatantly imbalanced.

And stop with the 100B! We can 1 shot someone ONCE PER MINUTE. With very low chance of success if that person has even a sliver of PvP skill. This discussion is about spammable OP resets/oops buttons.

Since we need to keep bringing up the 100B “1 shot using all utility cooldowns” OPNESS. I have a compromise. Make stealth a 1 min CD. See how offended you just got? Then make frenzy a 20 second CD. See how offended you just got again? Such a hypocritical double standard in this game.

Wreckdum.8367:

killimandros.5087:

asccording to this discussion, around 95% of all players NOT playing thieves, are so bad they really shouldnt be allowed to plat this game. On the other hand 100% of all thieves are so GOOD and PRO mensa will send you an auto invite if you roll thief in gw2

^ this is how it is in every thread where people are in denial stealth is terribly executed in this game. In pre release interviews the developers cited WoW rogues as being OP because they had perma stealth and could lie in wait… And then they use one opener and they are stuck fighting you…

GW2 version: The exact same as a WoW rogue except they can rinse and repeat every 3 seconds with more burst damage. And if things go wrong they have umpteen million resets. GJ ANet. YOU NAILED IT!

I understand they want to keep “class roles” and whatnot so they don’t want to homogenize all classes into having the same abilities. However, if you’re going to give one class 4 different “oops I messed up time to reset the fight” buttons. That is blatantly imbalanced.

And stop with the 100B! We can 1 shot someone ONCE PER MINUTE. With very low chance of success if that person has even a sliver of PvP skill. This discussion is about spammable OP resets/oops buttons.

Since we need to keep bringing up the 100B “1 shot using all utility cooldowns” OPNESS. I have a compromise. Make stealth a 1 min CD. See how offended you just got? Then make frenzy a 20 second CD. See how offended you just got again? Such a hypocritical double standard in this game.

The funny thing is, If you look back at DAOC, at the stealther wars in that game…People have slowly tried to move away from DAOC’s design (which blows my mind..They keep trying to imitate the game while completely ignoring the bloody design aspects of the game) of the Perma Stealthed guy somewhat..However every time they do it they end up making it substantially worse.

DAOC’s Stealthers had Stealth…you couldn’t see them coming, however if they bloody missed their PA, they were in a rough fight….and vanishing wasn’t always a get out of jail free card and had a fairly long timer.

They also weren’t top of the food chain when it came to 1v1 in the game….Heavy Tanks/Reavers/Valkyries/Bonedancer’s/Spiritmasters/ValeWalkers/Champions could all take an absolute crap on Rogues in that game if they missed their PA…

Stealthers had the advantage of being able to avoid zergs usually (unless one rolled by when they were fighting, Or if a stealther was in the zerg) But they weren’t the absolute best 1v1….

jkctmc.8754:

iCryptik.1496:

jkctmc.8754:

iCryptik.1496:

All the videos I see posted are people posting vids on some of the most skilled thiefs out there, or posting vids of them losing to thiefs, when they are using a build that may be the weakest to fight a thief.

tl;dr – Different builds fair better against thiefs than other builds. If your constantly losing to a thief, rethink your build and use a different one. Or die, and deal with it.

Funny that huh. Xsorus posted a video of himself, on his thief.

I don’t get what’s “funny” about it. I’m not really sure what your insinuating really. A good thief is a deadly opponent, they are tricky to counter, but can be countered. I main multiple lvl 80’s and have every class except engi and thief to 80. I have learned over time that if I use X build on this class, I’ll have trouble with class A, B, and sometimes C, but not D – E – F – or G.

The point I’m making is that certain builds are strong against certain class types, while being weak against others. If you find yourself losing to X or Y class, use a build that strongly counters that class.

If you don’t, then you deserve to be killed by a thief or any other class.

You completely miss the point. You said that people are losing to Thieves, yet Xsorus you know the original poster you insulted puts up a video of his Thief, you know him playing the Thief, doing the very things he thinks is overpowered, and you still believe it is because he died to a Thief, without watching his videos of killing Thieves on his Ranger, you know one of the weakest classes in WvW.

I mean seriously. I rarely if ever die on my Thief. With over 10k kills, I have less than 100 deaths.

How in the world do you die on your Thief?

1. Yes, I did say that players die to thieves. Players die to other classes as well.

2. Just because he thinks thiefs are overpower, doesn’t mean other players don’t.

3. Other players posted video’s of them losing to thieves. I’m more or less talking to them.

4. I never said that I main’d a thief. In fact, I only recently started leveling a thief. I do however, play a Ele, Necro, Warrior, Guardian, and a Mesmer. They all have builds that don’t work against thieves, and they all have builds that will destroy thieves.

Every class has 5 tree’s to invest in. Some have their pro’s, some have their cons. The problem is, people are so used to only using X or Y build, or X weapon set or Y, that they continually die because they never change their build, and they don’t adapt.

Xsorus.2507:

Wreckdum.8367:

killimandros.5087:

asccording to this discussion, around 95% of all players NOT playing thieves, are so bad they really shouldnt be allowed to plat this game. On the other hand 100% of all thieves are so GOOD and PRO mensa will send you an auto invite if you roll thief in gw2

^ this is how it is in every thread where people are in denial stealth is terribly executed in this game. In pre release interviews the developers cited WoW rogues as being OP because they had perma stealth and could lie in wait… And then they use one opener and they are stuck fighting you…

GW2 version: The exact same as a WoW rogue except they can rinse and repeat every 3 seconds with more burst damage. And if things go wrong they have umpteen million resets. GJ ANet. YOU NAILED IT!

I understand they want to keep “class roles” and whatnot so they don’t want to homogenize all classes into having the same abilities. However, if you’re going to give one class 4 different “oops I messed up time to reset the fight” buttons. That is blatantly imbalanced.

And stop with the 100B! We can 1 shot someone ONCE PER MINUTE. With very low chance of success if that person has even a sliver of PvP skill. This discussion is about spammable OP resets/oops buttons.

Since we need to keep bringing up the 100B “1 shot using all utility cooldowns” OPNESS. I have a compromise. Make stealth a 1 min CD. See how offended you just got? Then make frenzy a 20 second CD. See how offended you just got again? Such a hypocritical double standard in this game.

The funny thing is, If you look back at DAOC, at the stealther wars in that game…People have slowly tried to move away from DAOC’s design (which blows my mind..They keep trying to imitate the game while completely ignoring the bloody design aspects of the game) of the Perma Stealthed guy somewhat..However every time they do it they end up making it substantially worse.

DAOC’s Stealthers had Stealth…you couldn’t see them coming, however if they bloody missed their PA, they were in a rough fight….and vanishing wasn’t always a get out of jail free card and had a fairly long timer.

They also weren’t top of the food chain when it came to 1v1 in the game….Heavy Tanks/Reavers/Valkyries/Bonedancer’s/Spiritmasters/ValeWalkers/Champions could all take an absolute crap on Rogues in that game if they missed their PA…

Stealthers had the advantage of being able to avoid zergs usually (unless one rolled by when they were fighting, Or if a stealther was in the zerg) But they weren’t the absolute best 1v1….

They could also 1 shot someone….and I’m not talking about 3 hit in 1. I’m talking about just 1 button…

Sifu.6527:

jkctmc.8754:

I run a bunker style Thief now, with very little stealth, running primary sword to teleport around, and confuse the enemy. My bunker Thief outperforms my bunker Guardian, and Bunker Warrior ten-fold. Thieves who know how to play the class will be perfectly fine.

Even running very little, to no stealth, I die rarely, if at all. Hell, I have more stealth on my Mesmer now, than I do my Thief.

Quit being bads, and learn the Thief please. You don’t need stealth to win fights.

“This is what a good Thief looks like, and how noobish he makes the Ranger class look”

You made the above comment in response to a dagger/dagger thief video. The thief in the video uses stealth heavily.

So what is it? Is the thief in the video bad and need to learn the thief??? Make up your mind.

I never once said they couldn’t do great with stealth, just that they don’t need it to do great things. My current Thief build utilizes a bunker style of play, while utilizing teleportation with Shortbow, and Sword “2” ability (which by the way is our best stun break) to confuse those I’m fighting. It’s worked so great, it pains me to get on my bunker Guardian, and bunker Warrior. I exploit the hell out of stealth on my Mesmer though.

Xsorus.2507:

Wreckdum.8367:

killimandros.5087:

asccording to this discussion, around 95% of all players NOT playing thieves, are so bad they really shouldnt be allowed to plat this game. On the other hand 100% of all thieves are so GOOD and PRO mensa will send you an auto invite if you roll thief in gw2

^ this is how it is in every thread where people are in denial stealth is terribly executed in this game. In pre release interviews the developers cited WoW rogues as being OP because they had perma stealth and could lie in wait… And then they use one opener and they are stuck fighting you…

GW2 version: The exact same as a WoW rogue except they can rinse and repeat every 3 seconds with more burst damage. And if things go wrong they have umpteen million resets. GJ ANet. YOU NAILED IT!

I understand they want to keep “class roles” and whatnot so they don’t want to homogenize all classes into having the same abilities. However, if you’re going to give one class 4 different “oops I messed up time to reset the fight” buttons. That is blatantly imbalanced.

And stop with the 100B! We can 1 shot someone ONCE PER MINUTE. With very low chance of success if that person has even a sliver of PvP skill. This discussion is about spammable OP resets/oops buttons.

Since we need to keep bringing up the 100B “1 shot using all utility cooldowns” OPNESS. I have a compromise. Make stealth a 1 min CD. See how offended you just got? Then make frenzy a 20 second CD. See how offended you just got again? Such a hypocritical double standard in this game.

The funny thing is, If you look back at DAOC, at the stealther wars in that game…People have slowly tried to move away from DAOC’s design (which blows my mind..They keep trying to imitate the game while completely ignoring the bloody design aspects of the game) of the Perma Stealthed guy somewhat..However every time they do it they end up making it substantially worse.

DAOC’s Stealthers had Stealth…you couldn’t see them coming, however if they bloody missed their PA, they were in a rough fight….and vanishing wasn’t always a get out of jail free card and had a fairly long timer.

They also weren’t top of the food chain when it came to 1v1 in the game….Heavy Tanks/Reavers/Valkyries/Bonedancer’s/Spiritmasters/ValeWalkers/Champions could all take an absolute crap on Rogues in that game if they missed their PA…

Stealthers had the advantage of being able to avoid zergs usually (unless one rolled by when they were fighting, Or if a stealther was in the zerg) But they weren’t the absolute best 1v1….

DAoC, among other MMOs also had a see stealth class.

The fact you can chain stealths together is the problem lol… Mesmers and Thieves both can constantly stay invisible and dish out loads of damage. Stealth needs a higher cooldown that’s about it. Mesmers and Thieves are in no way easy to take down, especially ones that know when to re-stealth. Sure they’re squishy but all their stealths and conditions make up for it. And you can spec Mesmers to be quite beefy.

Sifu.6527:

Xsorus.2507:

Wreckdum.8367:

killimandros.5087:

asccording to this discussion, around 95% of all players NOT playing thieves, are so bad they really shouldnt be allowed to plat this game. On the other hand 100% of all thieves are so GOOD and PRO mensa will send you an auto invite if you roll thief in gw2

^ this is how it is in every thread where people are in denial stealth is terribly executed in this game. In pre release interviews the developers cited WoW rogues as being OP because they had perma stealth and could lie in wait… And then they use one opener and they are stuck fighting you…

GW2 version: The exact same as a WoW rogue except they can rinse and repeat every 3 seconds with more burst damage. And if things go wrong they have umpteen million resets. GJ ANet. YOU NAILED IT!

I understand they want to keep “class roles” and whatnot so they don’t want to homogenize all classes into having the same abilities. However, if you’re going to give one class 4 different “oops I messed up time to reset the fight” buttons. That is blatantly imbalanced.

And stop with the 100B! We can 1 shot someone ONCE PER MINUTE. With very low chance of success if that person has even a sliver of PvP skill. This discussion is about spammable OP resets/oops buttons.

Since we need to keep bringing up the 100B “1 shot using all utility cooldowns” OPNESS. I have a compromise. Make stealth a 1 min CD. See how offended you just got? Then make frenzy a 20 second CD. See how offended you just got again? Such a hypocritical double standard in this game.

The funny thing is, If you look back at DAOC, at the stealther wars in that game…People have slowly tried to move away from DAOC’s design (which blows my mind..They keep trying to imitate the game while completely ignoring the bloody design aspects of the game) of the Perma Stealthed guy somewhat..However every time they do it they end up making it substantially worse.

DAOC’s Stealthers had Stealth…you couldn’t see them coming, however if they bloody missed their PA, they were in a rough fight….and vanishing wasn’t always a get out of jail free card and had a fairly long timer.

They also weren’t top of the food chain when it came to 1v1 in the game….Heavy Tanks/Reavers/Valkyries/Bonedancer’s/Spiritmasters/ValeWalkers/Champions could all take an absolute crap on Rogues in that game if they missed their PA…

Stealthers had the advantage of being able to avoid zergs usually (unless one rolled by when they were fighting, Or if a stealther was in the zerg) But they weren’t the absolute best 1v1….

They could also 1 shot someone….and I’m not talking about 3 hit in 1. I’m talking about just 1 button…

Very early in the game, and I mean very very early (like Pre Ra’s) you could one shot people with Shadowblade and 2 handed PA.

It was usually casters….

That changed though very quickly…..

Mainly because if you one shot someone you stayed stealthed.

I should add this was also the time when Scouts could also one shot you from a mile away as well…….

Its part of the reason Casters in that game ended up with the Bubble Buff.

jkctmc.8754:

Xsorus.2507:

Wreckdum.8367:

killimandros.5087:

asccording to this discussion, around 95% of all players NOT playing thieves, are so bad they really shouldnt be allowed to plat this game. On the other hand 100% of all thieves are so GOOD and PRO mensa will send you an auto invite if you roll thief in gw2

^ this is how it is in every thread where people are in denial stealth is terribly executed in this game. In pre release interviews the developers cited WoW rogues as being OP because they had perma stealth and could lie in wait… And then they use one opener and they are stuck fighting you…

GW2 version: The exact same as a WoW rogue except they can rinse and repeat every 3 seconds with more burst damage. And if things go wrong they have umpteen million resets. GJ ANet. YOU NAILED IT!

I understand they want to keep “class roles” and whatnot so they don’t want to homogenize all classes into having the same abilities. However, if you’re going to give one class 4 different “oops I messed up time to reset the fight” buttons. That is blatantly imbalanced.

And stop with the 100B! We can 1 shot someone ONCE PER MINUTE. With very low chance of success if that person has even a sliver of PvP skill. This discussion is about spammable OP resets/oops buttons.

Since we need to keep bringing up the 100B “1 shot using all utility cooldowns” OPNESS. I have a compromise. Make stealth a 1 min CD. See how offended you just got? Then make frenzy a 20 second CD. See how offended you just got again? Such a hypocritical double standard in this game.

The funny thing is, If you look back at DAOC, at the stealther wars in that game…People have slowly tried to move away from DAOC’s design (which blows my mind..They keep trying to imitate the game while completely ignoring the bloody design aspects of the game) of the Perma Stealthed guy somewhat..However every time they do it they end up making it substantially worse.

DAOC’s Stealthers had Stealth…you couldn’t see them coming, however if they bloody missed their PA, they were in a rough fight….and vanishing wasn’t always a get out of jail free card and had a fairly long timer.

They also weren’t top of the food chain when it came to 1v1 in the game….Heavy Tanks/Reavers/Valkyries/Bonedancer’s/Spiritmasters/ValeWalkers/Champions could all take an absolute crap on Rogues in that game if they missed their PA…

Stealthers had the advantage of being able to avoid zergs usually (unless one rolled by when they were fighting, Or if a stealther was in the zerg) But they weren’t the absolute best 1v1….

DAoC, among other MMOs also had a see stealth class.

Yeap…Eventually added to counter the ever growing stealther zergs (that are creeping up in this game)

Ranger Pet’s and NPCs can now track stealth thieves, we did get a nerf.

Reasons why thieves are less prevalent and successful in sPvP is for a number of reasons

-Enemies tuned to small scale fights. I don’t know about you, but almost the entirety of my guild, and other guilds on my server have their builds focused around zerg fights with tons of support. They are NOT adjusted for small scale fights

-Culling is almost non existant in spvp

-Players who are more experienced in small fights. This sort of goes with my first point, but different in the fact that it has to do with skill. WvW players are not only atoned via trait for large scale fights, but by playstyle. It’s not an AoE and ranged spam between two large forces in spvp. These players single out their target and attack each other more often that WvW players, and are more experienced at doing it.