Guild Wars 2

oZii.2864:

This is like 1v1 talk or something. You have 5 people engaged in fighting 5 people you roll up drop your glamours and confusion those 5 people engaged probably just died or are close to it because 1 mesmer just dumped confusion on them. Even if they don’t use any skills while they have the stacks they are still getting attack by those same 5 people. This is the scenario where confusion damage was really strong.

Myself either way its whatever I will still use confusion build a 50% nerf to confusion to sPvP levels doesn’t mean it will do the same damage it does in sPvP since you can get more condition damage and more duration in WvW. The food alone gives you 40% more duration than you can get in sPvP and confusion stacks intensity. Its not as bad as people make it out to be.

Step 1. Dont stack.
Step 2. Locate the glamour fields
Step 3. Do not go into them
Step 4. Kill the defenseless mesmer that can do little to no damage now.
Step 5. Dont freak out about killing him fast he cant hurt you for 30 secs.

Of course nerf now, just hit 80 on my mes

Spooky Mulder.1524:

Of course nerf now, just hit 80 on my mes

LOL welcome this isnt our first Nerf and it wont be the last.

Lukemia.2581:

Moa skill is useless. You turn a person into a bird and gave him 5 speed skills (congrats you gave a player an escape)

…thereby removing him from the ongoing fight (Big Picture) and helping your side. That’s one less enemy damaging, killing, and staking your guys. Stop worrying about how everything affects you and you alone.

FractalChaos.6539:

Lukemia.2581:

Moa skill is useless. You turn a person into a bird and gave him 5 speed skills (congrats you gave a player an escape)

…thereby removing him from the ongoing fight (Big Picture) and helping your side. That’s one less enemy damaging, killing, and staking your guys. Stop worrying about how everything affects you and you alone.

I get your point. Thats why I will always use TW over it. I wouldnt use moa unless I was doing a 2 v 1

Lukemia.2581:

Victoitor.2917:

Whether you want it or not, Mesmers are OP and they should be nerfed. I run confusions myself as an engineer and I’ll also be hit, but I know it’s necessary. It sucks, but it has to be done. Get over it.

Can you explain how they are OP everyone says they are but they never explain. Also you are an engineer I’d assume you know what its like being op.

1- They have tremendous “escapability” (decoy clones, stealth, blink).
2- They can do massive damage rapidly.
3- They can render entire armies invisible.
4- They can portal entire armies past walls and gates; no other class can do that.
*5- They can stop an entire army in its tracks with Confusion (well not anymore).

See that last one? The one with the asterisk? Yeah, a lot of people still have a problem with the first 4, so having that fifth one on TOP of the first 4 was too much.

Mesmers are still one of- if not the -most versatile classes in the game. They still bring more to the WvW table, in terms of options and flexibility, than any other class in the game.

EDIT: For the record, Mesmers do have drawbacks. For one I find leveling them is dreadfully boring. But the fact my level 20 Mesmer was able to go to WvW and contribute more, in certain situations, than my level 80 Guardian says more about the class than about me…

EnRohbi.2187:

Yeah, great.
Confusion never killed actually good players before,

If Anet doesn’t want it killing noobs either, who is supposed to die from it?

/thread.

FractalChaos.6539:

Lukemia.2581:

Victoitor.2917:

Whether you want it or not, Mesmers are OP and they should be nerfed. I run confusions myself as an engineer and I’ll also be hit, but I know it’s necessary. It sucks, but it has to be done. Get over it.

Can you explain how they are OP everyone says they are but they never explain. Also you are an engineer I’d assume you know what its like being op.

1- They have tremendous “escapability” (decoy clones, stealth, blink).
2- They can do massive damage rapidly.
3- They can render entire armies invisible.
4- They can portal entire armies past walls and gates; no other class can do that.
*5- They can stop an entire army in its tracks with Confusion (well not anymore).

See that last one? The one with the asterisk? Yeah, a lot of people still have a problem with the first 4, so having that fifth one on TOP of the first 4 was too much.

Mesmers are still one of- if not the -most versatile classes in the game. They still bring more to the WvW table, in terms of options and flexibility, than any other class in the game.

1. They are also the slowest class in the game.
2. Massive damage yields no defense. (Do a dodge through the clones watch no damage happen then 2 shot the guy)
3. They can only do it for 4 sec’s (culling patch fixed that issue blame your bad scouts)
5. Confusion stops no one It has no movement impairing effects.

Mesmers are not versatile they have 3 main specs the rest are micro management changes. Bunker/Glamour/Shatter. Bunker- you keep your clones up Glamour- you hardly use clones shatter- You make tons of clones.

FractalChaos.6539:

1- They have tremendous “escapability” (decoy clones, stealth, blink).
2- They can do massive damage rapidly.
3- They can render entire armies invisible.
4- They can portal entire armies past walls and gates; no other class can do that.
*5- They can stop an entire army in its tracks with Confusion (well not anymore).

1. So does every other class
2. So does every other class
3. Stealth chaining should have been nerfed overall long ago, but no Anet dont want to do it. Nobody knows why and both Theives and Mesmers rejoice.
4. Its one of the unique things of the mesmer, yes. And it was nerfed.
5. They cant if that entire army knows how to cleanse and combo field. You know what CAN stop an entire army in its tracks? Guardians and Warriors. And they do 10x the direct damage while doing it, while you are stunlocked.

Not to mention, many of your points are build based. A glamour Mesmer doesnt have many escape abilities. A Mesmer that can escape doesnt have glamour. A glamour Mesmer cannot do damage rapidly, every condition cleanse the enemy reduce that damage and it rely on enemy numbers. A Mesmer based around escape and phantasm dueling cannot “stop” an army any more than a backstabbing Theif can.

I think a lot of anger over the mesmer issue would be fixed if they did not have access to stealth, which really should be a thief mechanic. Cmon, mesmers already have access to clones and distortion.

Raptured.9307:

I think a lot of anger over the mesmer issue would be fixed if they did not have access to stealth, which really should be a thief mechanic. Cmon, mesmers already have access to clones and distortion.

“Mesmers are magical duelists who wield deception as a weapon. Using powerful illusions, clones, and phantasmal magic to confuse and distract their foes, mesmers make sure every fight is balanced in their favor and their opponents can’t believe their eyes.”

~quote off GW2 professions web page https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/mesmer/

Lukemia.2581:

what they are nerfing is the only build you can kill. When the nerf comes out be prepared for everyone to go back to shatter.

I agree.

The mesmer lobby won again. They accept a nerf on their least important skill, while their OP skills remain 100% intact. They can still stealth & blink away. They can still cast clones. You can’t kill these, unless they are thraited for 100+ DPS. Nothing important is changed to them, nothing.

The thief lobby won too. They remain the highest burst damage (which I don’t have a problem with) but they also get better mobility now AND they can stealth every 3s again. This is supposed to be ‘balancing’?

It’s really amazing what ANet is doing with these two classes.

Lukemia.2581:

Raptured.9307:

I think a lot of anger over the mesmer issue would be fixed if they did not have access to stealth, which really should be a thief mechanic. Cmon, mesmers already have access to clones and distortion.

“Mesmers are magical duelists who wield deception as a weapon. Using powerful illusions, clones, and phantasmal magic to confuse and distract their foes, mesmers make sure every fight is balanced in their favor and their opponents can’t believe their eyes.”

Doesn’t say they go invisible. You already have illusions and clones which both are considered phantasmal magic.
The last bit is just fluff otherwise that everyone should just accept they’re OP.

I think i’ll go roll a mesmer or thief pretty soon.
Oh wait, i already have

Lol thats why i bolded deception. If they couldn’t go invisible you wouldn’t be able to decept anyone.

Uhh i think being able to make clones of yourself and have them explode/leap in your opponent’s face and teleporting is already pretty deceptive..

I love how people keep harping that this is a Mesmer nerf.

Hey guess what, i play an Engineer and i also use Confusion. You might not remember me because Engineer doesnt stand out. But this also nerfs me, you know, the least played profession…

But yah, go on about how this is a much needed/outrageous mesmer nerf. Its okay, the devs care equally little about Engineers.

I am a necro and I approve the nerf. [/troll]

I take more damage from necro marks and wells (both the initial damage & plethora of conditions that are applied with them [which players have no control over]) than confusion in WvW.
Oh well. We all know Arenanet is incompetent when it comes to WvW.

And in a 1v1 situation only bads lose to it.

Tallis.5607:

Lukemia.2581:

what they are nerfing is the only build you can kill. When the nerf comes out be prepared for everyone to go back to shatter.

I agree.

The mesmer lobby won again. They accept a nerf on their least important skill, while their OP skills remain 100% intact. They can still stealth & blink away. They can still cast clones. You can’t kill these, unless they are thraited for 100+ DPS. Nothing important is changed to them, nothing.

The thief lobby won too. They remain the highest burst damage (which I don’t have a problem with) but they also get better mobility now AND they can stealth every 3s again. This is supposed to be ‘balancing’?

It’s really amazing what ANet is doing with these two classes.

What in the name of the Pale Tree? We got SHAFTED. Hard. And you think we were lobbying for THIS??? Best laugh of the day. Our most important, nay our ONLY Condition sliced in half like a thanksgiving turkey? All the gear we grinded for rendered useless? Scepter, useless? Glamour mesmer build, dead? You think the mesmer community wanted this so we could all… what? And by the by, who in the kitten can’t kill a clone? They die like a new born infant tossed into a pit of alligators.

This is exactly the kind of crap that made my switch my main from mesmer to warrior. I can understand most of the logic behind some of the nerfs to mesmer, but this is just silly. There are skills put in the game for every class for the express reason of removing conditions, and because some people don’t want to use them another class needs to be nerfed?

At least we can all rest assured that the QQers didn’t actually win anything here, since they will just end up QQing about something else next week. They will never be able to sit comfortably in their chair as long as they continue to fail miserably at games. Most of you mesmers out there are good enough to find another way to kill these bads anyways, just sorry you guys stuck with the class longer than I did.

Also, if you end up with 25 stacks of anything you are either getting trampled by a zerg or you are just laughably bad, especially when it comes to one of the most difficult to apply conditions in the game.

Necros, watch out. You are probably next based on what this community has been crying about.

thievery.2701:

This is exactly the kind of crap that made my switch my main from mesmer to warrior.

Gl rerolling soon when you will realize what a joke 30 points in warrior discipline tree is and how boon hate will not give any increased dps overall,but it will actually lose it .But i don’t wanna spoil it all for now.

If you guys can’t think of why confusion was ridiculously overpowered in its current state, then you are not very creative with combo fiends. Here is a hint: Have your friends shoot through ethereal fields into the enemy group, watch the enemy rocket up to 25 stacks of confusion, profit.

Terrahero.9358:

I love how people keep harping that this is a Mesmer nerf.

Hey guess what, i play an Engineer and i also use Confusion. You might not remember me because Engineer doesnt stand out. But this also nerfs me, you know, the least played profession…

But yah, go on about how this is a much needed/outrageous mesmer nerf. Its okay, the devs care equally little about Engineers.

See that’s the thing though; something that a lot of people don’t realise (basically EVERYONE who hasn’t played a mesmer) is that confusion is the only viable condition that mesmers can stack reliably.

Any other class that’s traited and geared for condition damage will ALWAYS have better condition application than a mesmer. Note that I’m talking about damaging conditions, not CC.

So a mesmer that’s specced for condition damage will generally ONLY be applying one condition – confusion. Sure, you’ll get a few bleeds here and there from your staff procs, but really – that damage is easily ignored.

An engineer, on the other hand, that’s specced for pure condition damage, will have dual pistols and an elixir gun, AS WELL as your tool kit for your wrench #2. So you guys still have your bleeds, your poison and your burns to fall back on. We don’t.

graverr.6473:

thievery.2701:

This is exactly the kind of crap that made my switch my main from mesmer to warrior.

Gl rerolling soon when you will realize what a joke 30 points in warrior discipline tree is and how boon hate will not give any increased dps overall,but it will actually lose it .But i don’t wanna spoil it all for now.

I’m actually already 80 and almost in full exos with my warrior and I’m having a blast. I see no reason I would absolutely have to put 30 points into a tree either. Also, I haven’t done that much research into this patch yet (waiting for it to drop first) but could you please explain how boon hate will decrease my dps. I’m apparently suffering from confusion 0.0

elorei.6251:

If you guys can’t think of why confusion was ridiculously overpowered in its current state, then you are not very creative with combo fiends. Here is a hint: Have your friends shoot through ethereal fields into the enemy group, watch the enemy rocket up to 25 stacks of confusion, profit.

Hogwash. Never seen 25 stacks on a foe ever. And if what you’re saying is true (combos seem to add just a few ticks), which I’ve never noticed, why didn’t they nerf etherial fields instead of taking away our personal builds? Hell, make ethereal fields cause blindness instead. I don’t care. Just leave my personal damage and build alone.

^I’m sure that’s how everyone feels but you have to accept the reality – what is not seen as fair in ANet’s eyes and to popular opinion will get nerfed. You are far from being the only person (Or class) griefing about these sorts of problems.

elorei.6251:

If you guys can’t think of why confusion was ridiculously overpowered in its current state, then you are not very creative with combo fiends. Here is a hint: Have your friends shoot through ethereal fields into the enemy group, watch the enemy rocket up to 25 stacks of confusion, profit.

Projectile finishers that cause confusion through an ethereal combo can only be applied to a single target. And unless I’m mistaken these stacks also do not last for very long (I want to say 2 seconds or less but I can’t back that up). That enemy group will still be largely unaffected, but I supposed you forced one person to cleanse one condition :/

Not sure why I’m arguing though. The damage has been done.

thievery.2701:

could you please explain how boon hate will decrease my dps. I’m apparently suffering from confusion 0.0

You will have to drop other dps increasing traits from other trees,without even mentioning what a waste 30 points in discipline tree will be.Waste of good dps traits with 100% uptime(not ocasional like boon hate) and severe loss in survavibility .Tip from a player that has 2 warrior lvl 80 playing them actively since september.You can send me the cookie via mail .

But keep it down .I don’t wanna spoil the OMG OMG warriors OP boon hate for people just yet.It’s really funny to see.

Really?

Mesmer has been top 3 since launch and spent many moons in the overpowered camp. You want to feel nerfed? Play a ranger.

tagnut.8621:

Really?

Mesmer has been top 3 since launch and spent many moons in the overpowered camp. You want to feel nerfed? Play a ranger.

I’ve fought rangers who can 1vs5 easily. They can offload a stack of bleed at the rate of lightning and then send their pet up to you to do whatever immobilise it likes.

I’ve got to be honest. I have a mesmer alt, and I have it because confusion damage is lolololol. That needed nerfed.
But Anet seem to think their classes are really wide ranged and diverse. If they half confusion damage they expect you to be able to pull something out of their huge wealth of awesome skills to create a new build!

Oh no wait.
What wealth of awesome skills?

Unlike Guildwars1 (who had expansions released already) GW2 has a stagnant skill bar. Which means everyone basically runs the same build. You could nerf skills back in the day because there were so many to choose from.
But not in this game. Anet are just slow on the times.
They should have just given Guardians an AoE remove confusion buff to support their allies etc etc.

My name is Merlin and i approve this message..

Roll one of the less favored classes in WvW and stop QQing. Elementalists, Mesmers, Guardians and Warriors ALWAYS have a roll call in voice chat.

tagnut.8621:

Really?

Mesmer has been top 3 since launch and spent many moons in the overpowered camp. You want to feel nerfed? Play a ranger.

Whoa, someone called. People don’t call for me very often. Oh, you’re just using me as an example of how bad my class is? Well that’s cool I guess. You’ll at least invite me to the cool WvW’ers party since you’re talking about me, right? No? Can I at least wait outside the door so that I can feel somewhat included with all the other WvW’ers having a good time? You’re shaking your head. Alright, well I’ll be around roaming waiting for someone to decide I’m worth hanging out with. Oh hey look, that thief looks friendly enough and is coming over to say hi. Whoa, where’d he go?

I wish they would nerf monks

This is why I stopped playing Mesmer months ago. Every patch is nerfs without anything in exchange.

silkysoft.6749:

I wish they would nerf monks

Kronos Zek.9715:

RyuDragnier.9476:

50% nerf? That’s beyond harsh. I would have gone with 20% or 25%, but not 50%. Any good player shrugs off confusion easily with one of the condition removal skills each class has normally, so confusion damage is already pretty meh to begin with. And even when it hits, “Oh wow, I just lost 2K of my 22K HP just to heal the status while I had 12 stacks.” Not that powerful to be honest. That nerf takes it down to 1K, which makes confusion laughable…horribly laughable. My condolences, Mesmers. I’ll kill as many people who QQed about how OP confusion was as I can in WvW for you guys.

2k hp isn’t laughable when I shatter you on top of that. maybe you should find out what tpvp is before you something regarding balance.

Shattering doesn’t connect most of the time on anybody who knows how easy it is to read and counter. You see clones coming at you? Dodge roll through them. Congratulations, they shattered and the person they’re trying to hit took no damage.

Lukemia.2581:

Im gunna make some statements.
Mesmers have the worst heals in the game.
Mesmers are the slowest class in the game.
Mesmers are forced into 3 builds in this game (bunker, shatter, glamour)
any one want to add more to the list feel free.

I’m sorry but mesmers still have exceedingly good viability as damage dealers, AND you’re ten times more useful than a Guardian would be in WvW. Guardians attacking during a siege- which requires ranged combat, as you know – are next to useless (scepter sucks). In a siege defense? Other than spamming my staff right at the door to keep people off it (before the zerg decides to melt me through the door), yeah…useless.

Agreed, guardians are excellent in open field fights. They are the absolute masters (sorry bunker eles but I laugh at you) of the “HAHAHA like you’re going to kill me” taunt. They have great denial abilities (Line of warding, Wall of Reflection, etc).

Mesmers dominate every other aspect of WvW practicality though.

Entropy.4732:

Show some respect for the fallen.

Any build that becomes the de facto build for an entire class usually does so because it has advantages and perks the other builds don’t have. This fix was quite necessary. No build died today; it just got brought down to earth with the rest of them.

Got to love the massive over reaction in this thread. Mesmers are still one of the most powerful and versatile classes in the game, they do everything well. I assure you all your glamour builds will still work great in WvW and you will continue to get 100’s of badges a night.

Now in my opinion confusion was not overpowered what so ever in 1v1 play, you get confusion on you just do nothing and wait it out, but this game is not based on 1v1, its balanced around group settings and in groups with damage and aoe’s flying around everywhere doing nothing does not work, you will die. At least with the damage reduction players can defend themselves more efficiently in group settings. Overall the build will still be strong, it will have little to no effect on the good mesmers.

You are crying for wrong reasons.

I play all professions, but my main is an Asura engineer. She also has a good access to confusion e.g. prybar, static shot, concussion bomb and pain inverter (and she has also access to retaliation, although that is more or less random). That confusion nerf is also hitting non-mesmer! Some engi builds e.g. the HGH engineer just had their best defense (= confusion) against glass cannon thieves nerfed to ground. But instead of crying like babies, engis keep on going, as they have always been nerfed with every update.

Engineer Elixir S also got the nerf bat, despite mesmers still have 2 s evade skill with good damage and mere 10 s cooldown = blurred frenzy (sword #2). Compare that with elixir S which does no damage and will soon disable all skills and has 60 s cooldown. Clearly mesmers have a huge advantage here. Any profession would love have an overpowered skill like blurred frenzy.

The fact remains confusion is too powerful. Even a good player can become a victim of confusion. If you are inside a zerg ball and enemy mesmers shatter their illusions you can easily end up having 5-12 stacks of confusion. That can potentially hit over 6k per skill, kit or attunement or trait activation. That is simply too much, especially considering the mesmers’s shatter confusion is spread to several nearby enemies.

Mesmers are still a really good profession in WvWvW. They got some of the best utility skills in the game. They can bring in stuff no other profession can do. Mesmers have good survivability due having so many clones on demand and relatively easy access to stealth. Mesmer shatter burst is one of the strongest bursts in the game.

Mesmers have always been common in WvWvW and after these “nerfs” I am sure they will still remain among top 5 professions.

I am more afraid of the unwise changes the developers did for thief. Reverting the revealed back to 3 seconds and making shadow steps skills work without target will simply allow any good glass cannon thief always disengage combat when they want. Thus almost no risk of being killed unless you play really badly. And now getting the ability to steal entire 25 might stack with the sword #3 (boon ripping), ouch…
I guess the developers want to see backstab crit hit 17k+ against medium armor (2.3k).

My prediction is: mesmers nor elementalists are not going to become obsolete in WvWvW, but we are going to see even more thieves and warriors (as if they were ever rare there :-P).

I don’t understand Arenanet. First they said “we don’t want reactive damage, so we’re removing hexes cause we don’t like the way empathy, backfire, diversion, guilt, visions of regret, spiteful spirit etc worked and we don’t want it in GW2” , then they added confusion to give exactly that type of damage anyway, and now they are nerfing it. What exactly are they trying to achieve?

That being said, I don’t mind the nerf, but I’d rather just see confusion gone and replaced by some other effect that doesn’t punish you for using an ability, rather than keeping it in the game but making it… not very useful.

FractalChaos.6539:

Entropy.4732:

Show some respect for the fallen.

Any build that becomes the de facto build for an entire class usually does so because it has advantages and perks the other builds don’t have. This fix was quite necessary. No build died today; it just got brought down to earth with the rest of them.

So then shouldn’t we nerf tank Guardians because they can survive too much?

Lukemia.2581:

FractalChaos.6539:

Lukemia.2581:

Victoitor.2917:

Whether you want it or not, Mesmers are OP and they should be nerfed. I run confusions myself as an engineer and I’ll also be hit, but I know it’s necessary. It sucks, but it has to be done. Get over it.

Can you explain how they are OP everyone says they are but they never explain. Also you are an engineer I’d assume you know what its like being op.

1- They have tremendous “escapability” (decoy clones, stealth, blink).
2- They can do massive damage rapidly.
3- They can render entire armies invisible.
4- They can portal entire armies past walls and gates; no other class can do that.
*5- They can stop an entire army in its tracks with Confusion (well not anymore).

See that last one? The one with the asterisk? Yeah, a lot of people still have a problem with the first 4, so having that fifth one on TOP of the first 4 was too much.

Mesmers are still one of- if not the -most versatile classes in the game. They still bring more to the WvW table, in terms of options and flexibility, than any other class in the game.

1. They are also the slowest class in the game.
2. Massive damage yields no defense. (Do a dodge through the clones watch no damage happen then 2 shot the guy)
3. They can only do it for 4 sec’s (culling patch fixed that issue blame your bad scouts)
5. Confusion stops no one It has no movement impairing effects.

Mesmers are not versatile they have 3 main specs the rest are micro management changes. Bunker/Glamour/Shatter. Bunker- you keep your clones up Glamour- you hardly use clones shatter- You make tons of clones.

1. They are also the slowest class in the game.
…and yet you can choose to enter or leave a fight as you wish thanks to stealth, blink, clones, decoy etc. My Guardian may take 3 times longer to die than you will in a fight, but he will die. Guardians simply don’t “escape” from a fight gone bad.

2. Massive damage yields no defense. (Do a dodge through the clones watch no damage happen then 2 shot the guy).
We can theorycraft all day here. You come up with a scenario highlighting Mesmer weakness, and I will highlight an equivalent weakness for the other classes. None of that alters the fact that mesmer damage can very, very easily keep up with everyone else’s.

3. They can only do it for 4 sec’s (culling patch fixed that issue blame your bad scouts)
Other classes can do it for no seconds. The fact that a skill has a drawback doesn’t mean it’s useless.

5. Confusion stops no one It has no movement impairing effects.
That’s not really what I meant; maybe I didn’t explain myself right. Mesmers in these forums have said “Confusion isn’t a problem, just don’t attack and wait for it to drop”. Ok…but while we’re waiting, what are you doing? Killing us. So, once you drop Confusion in the path or on top of an oncoming zerg (and please don’t be so intellectually dishonest as to say “You can avoid that easy”), that zerg is pretty much a non-factor for a few seconds. A few seconds in WvW can equal a wipe, easily. It’s something only mesmers can do. Why is this so hard to see?

Mesmers are not versatile they have 3 main specs the rest are micro management changes. Bunker/Glamour/Shatter. Bunker- you keep your clones up Glamour- you hardly use clones shatter- You make tons of clones.
Their versatility isn’t in their specs, it’s in what those specs let them do. During a siege, you can pull people off walls, drop Confusion on the wall defenders…also Radiation Field, Null field to mitigate ranged damage, phantasms to take out siege equipment you can’t even see due to LoS. What does my Guardian do during a siege? Spam scepter #2 on the wall hoping its tiny radius actually hits something.

I am not saying this doesn’t hurt; any class gets hurt when a nerf comes in. I’m saying that some “nerfs”- like the fix to culling -are just that; fixes. Confusion in WvW is just one other tool mesmers have to affect WvW on a macro scale. You just have to learn to use it as part of an arsenal now, instead of depending on it.

EDIT: Null field rips all boons off a nice chunk of the zerg. I forgot about that (my Mesmer is only level 20ish). That just strengthens my position, however.

Quote from OP: Yet the only class that really seems to get nerfed is the mesmer.
Yea stopped reading there has noone told him about elementalist – thief nerfs? noone?
Just another QQ thread nothing to see here move along

Mesmer qq? People crying about confusion is why we’re getting knee-capped.

FractalChaos.6539:

But the fact my level 20 Mesmer was able to go to WvW and contribute more, in certain situations, than my level 80 Guardian says more about the class than about me…

My Mesmer is just DREADFUL as healing other players [in certain conditions]!

See what I did there? Guardians are still pretty OP so its funny that you use that for your example.

And yes it is sad that Glam is going away, but I saw the writing on the wall a couple months back and have been slowly switching to Shatter. Lucky me!

FractalChaos.6539:

1. They are also the slowest class in the game.
…and yet you can choose to enter or leave a fight as you wish thanks to stealth, blink, clones, decoy etc. My Guardian may take 3 times longer to die than you will in a fight, but he will die. Guardians simply don’t “escape” from a fight gone bad.

2. Massive damage yields no defense. (Do a dodge through the clones watch no damage happen then 2 shot the guy).
We can theorycraft all day here. You come up with a scenario highlighting Mesmer weakness, and I will highlight an equivalent weakness for the other classes. None of that alters the fact that mesmer damage can very, very easily keep up with everyone else’s.

1 on a guardian: GreatSword #3 then Sword #2 to a distant creep/player you want to travel towards. Follow up with Save Yourselves. Your Guardian is now out of combat and hasted, and most likely WITH stability.

2 on a guardian. Seriously, learn to dodge. Rolling through a planned shatter absolutely sinks Mesmer DPS. Setting up 3 clones in a hurry takes either weapon swapping or a utility slot. This isn’t always easy to do if you’re disrupting the Mesmers attacks at all.

Darkstorn.5423:

Quote from OP: Yet the only class that really seems to get nerfed is the mesmer.
Yea stopped reading there has noone told him about elementalist – thief nerfs? noone?
Just another QQ thread nothing to see here move along

This is a mesmer thread. thank you.

FractalChaos.6539:

1. They are also the slowest class in the game.
…and yet you can choose to enter or leave a fight as you wish thanks to stealth, blink, clones, decoy etc. My Guardian may take 3 times longer to die than you will in a fight, but he will die. Guardians simply don’t “escape” from a fight gone bad.

That’s a complete load of quaggan droppings right there. Stealth lasts three, four seconds and has a long cooldown. As slow as we are, it’s easy to catch right back up… if we even managed to get out of range. Blink is ridiculously short ranged. It’s not an escape, it’s a snare breaker. Clones, decoys, etc. don’t live long enough as it is.

FractalChaos.6539:

Lukemia.2581:

FractalChaos.6539:

Lukemia.2581:

Victoitor.2917:

Whether you want it or not, Mesmers are OP and they should be nerfed. I run confusions myself as an engineer and I’ll also be hit, but I know it’s necessary. It sucks, but it has to be done. Get over it.

Can you explain how they are OP everyone says they are but they never explain. Also you are an engineer I’d assume you know what its like being op.

1- They have tremendous “escapability” (decoy clones, stealth, blink).
2- They can do massive damage rapidly.
3- They can render entire armies invisible.
4- They can portal entire armies past walls and gates; no other class can do that.
*5- They can stop an entire army in its tracks with Confusion (well not anymore).

See that last one? The one with the asterisk? Yeah, a lot of people still have a problem with the first 4, so having that fifth one on TOP of the first 4 was too much.

Mesmers are still one of- if not the -most versatile classes in the game. They still bring more to the WvW table, in terms of options and flexibility, than any other class in the game.

1. They are also the slowest class in the game.
2. Massive damage yields no defense. (Do a dodge through the clones watch no damage happen then 2 shot the guy)
3. They can only do it for 4 sec’s (culling patch fixed that issue blame your bad scouts)
5. Confusion stops no one It has no movement impairing effects.

Mesmers are not versatile they have 3 main specs the rest are micro management changes. Bunker/Glamour/Shatter. Bunker- you keep your clones up Glamour- you hardly use clones shatter- You make tons of clones.

1. They are also the slowest class in the game.
…and yet you can choose to enter or leave a fight as you wish thanks to stealth, blink, clones, decoy etc. My Guardian may take 3 times longer to die than you will in a fight, but he will die. Guardians simply don’t “escape” from a fight gone bad.

2. Massive damage yields no defense. (Do a dodge through the clones watch no damage happen then 2 shot the guy).
We can theorycraft all day here. You come up with a scenario highlighting Mesmer weakness, and I will highlight an equivalent weakness for the other classes. None of that alters the fact that mesmer damage can very, very easily keep up with everyone else’s.

3. They can only do it for 4 sec’s (culling patch fixed that issue blame your bad scouts)
Other classes can do it for no seconds. The fact that a skill has a drawback doesn’t mean it’s useless.

5. Confusion stops no one It has no movement impairing effects.
That’s not really what I meant; maybe I didn’t explain myself right. Mesmers in these forums have said “Confusion isn’t a problem, just don’t attack and wait for it to drop”. Ok…but while we’re waiting, what are you doing? Killing us. So, once you drop Confusion in the path or on top of an oncoming zerg (and please don’t be so intellectually dishonest as to say “You can avoid that easy”), that zerg is pretty much a non-factor for a few seconds. A few seconds in WvW can equal a wipe, easily. It’s something only mesmers can do. Why is this so hard to see?

Mesmers are not versatile they have 3 main specs the rest are micro management changes. Bunker/Glamour/Shatter. Bunker- you keep your clones up Glamour- you hardly use clones shatter- You make tons of clones.
Their versatility isn’t in their specs, it’s in what those specs let them do. During a siege, you can pull people off walls, drop Confusion on the wall defenders…also Radiation Field, Null field to mitigate ranged damage, phantasms to take out siege equipment you can’t even see due to LoS. What does my Guardian do during a siege? Spam scepter #2 on the wall hoping its tiny radius actually hits something.

I am not saying this doesn’t hurt; any class gets hurt when a nerf comes in. I’m saying that some “nerfs”- like the fix to culling -are just that; fixes. Confusion in WvW is just one other tool mesmers have to affect WvW on a macro scale. You just have to learn to use it as part of an arsenal now, instead of depending on it.

EDIT: Null field rips all boons off a nice chunk of the zerg. I forgot about that (my Mesmer is only level 20ish). That just strengthens my position, however.

What all of you keep talking about are ALL slot spells, people keep talking as if we are able do all of these at the same time. You are wrong we can only do 3. Your not going to find a blinking super clone making mesmer that can kitten null fields and feedback at will, that can turn a whole zerg invisible. If you are a guardian and cant kill a Mesmer your doing something WAY wrong.