Guild Wars 2

I’m not here to argue if BS should be nerfed, or Shatter mesmer or 100B..
I just would like to see a general review of damage, at the moment it is too high for WvW
sPvP is just fine, why can’t we have similar stats for WvW when we own all the end game gears?
I know W3 and sPVP are 2 different type of games but still nothing prevents the damage to be similar in my opinion.

Wrong. SPvP has a completely different environment from WvW. Decreasing damage will only mean people will stack more in order to compensate. The reason WvW damage may seem high is because when 30 people just spam their attacks, whoever gets caught in that, dies. If you participated in smaller fights, you will notice that damage isn’t that high and certainly can be handled by anyone who knows what they’re doing.

What we need in WvW is to increase AoE damage by uncapping the number of targets an AoE can hit.

I am not against zergs as such, they’re natural after all, but people running in zergs need to be taught a very simple lesson – if you run around all nicely clustered up like a bunch of rabid chickens, a 5-man ambush team will kill you all.

Then we might actually see some tactics in zerg gameplay, like forward scouts, pickets and so on. And yeah… fewer blobs.

Where can I sign, what this man just wrote?

Gaudrath.6725:

Wrong. SPvP has a completely different environment from WvW. Decreasing damage will only mean people will stack more in order to compensate. The reason WvW damage may seem high is because when 30 people just spam their attacks, whoever gets caught in that, dies. If you participated in smaller fights, you will notice that damage isn’t that high and certainly can be handled by anyone who knows what they’re doing.

What we need in WvW is to increase AoE damage by uncapping the number of targets an AoE can hit.

I am not against zergs as such, they’re natural after all, but people running in zergs need to be taught a very simple lesson – if you run around all nicely clustered up like a bunch of rabid chickens, a 5-man ambush team will kill you all.

Then we might actually see some tactics in zerg gameplay, like forward scouts, pickets and so on. And yeah… fewer blobs.

You are my hero!
Nothing to add!

Tone down damage > Guardian = OP and practically unkillable

I shudder to think how strong d/d eles would be if they nerfed the damage gear in wvw.

Gaudrath.6725:

Wrong. SPvP has a completely different environment from WvW. Decreasing damage will only mean people will stack more in order to compensate. The reason WvW damage may seem high is because when 30 people just spam their attacks, whoever gets caught in that, dies. If you participated in smaller fights, you will notice that damage isn’t that high and certainly can be handled by anyone who knows what they’re doing.

What we need in WvW is to increase AoE damage by uncapping the number of targets an AoE can hit.

I am not against zergs as such, they’re natural after all, but people running in zergs need to be taught a very simple lesson – if you run around all nicely clustered up like a bunch of rabid chickens, a 5-man ambush team will kill you all.

Then we might actually see some tactics in zerg gameplay, like forward scouts, pickets and so on. And yeah… fewer blobs.

just for your knowledge I always and only do small scale balltes when in wvw.. and I’m also pretty succesful at it..
the reason is that I just find terrible that people with some well known spec can reach over 100% crit damage just by having thr right gears..
gears shouldn’t be so powerfull, and they shouldn’t give so much advantage like they do now in wvw..
WvW is full of very bad builds at the moment that just rely on gears for being succesfull, the same kind of build that in a sPvP enviroment don’t shine only because they don’t have the same advantage from too much powerfull gears..
I just think that the mix between gears and build in sPvP is what we would need for wvw too.
I have my opinion, you can have yours of course

Zauric.2981:

I shudder to think how strong d/d eles would be if they nerfed the damage gear in wvw.

yeah maybe you cannot kill em, they cannot kill you either..
not much of an issue..
builds that focus everything they have on survivability just make me laugh..

Tone down damage > Guardian = OP and practically unkillable

I’m also against this change, but remember: Real bunker guardians aren’t doing that much damage so they also would be unable to kill you. Also, warriors can be built to be much tougher and it would become a real problem to ever deliver enough damage to a d/d ele before he completely heals himself up again.

No, the damage is fine in WvW. Remember, WvW is intended to be unbalanced. That will always be the case since players come with their own gear/equipment. It is a good thing.

For people who want balance, they have sPvP.

Damage levels seem fine to me. Full zerker builds were in most cases a failed meta.

I would like to see AoE cap increased though.

If you complain about damage in WvW then you need more toughness. Stop wearing zerker gear.

Kolly.9872:

Zauric.2981:

I shudder to think how strong d/d eles would be if they nerfed the damage gear in wvw.

yeah maybe you cannot kill em, they cannot kill you either..
not much of an issue..
builds that focus everything they have on survivability just make me laugh..

You play the most ungodly over powered class in MMO history. You have no right to laugh at anything…

I play a guardian and basically if i don’t go for a full bunker build thieves will take off 10K hp instantly stealth, regen, do it again and kill me. The problem isn’t the gear it’s the people working on class balance. They flat out suck at it. There are a few classes that do just way to much DPS and and have way to many ways to escape or defend themselves and a few that do next to no damage unless they give up all defense and go total glass cannon. The class balance in this game is horrifically bad and if you listen to the state of the game video and Jon Sharp and Jon Peters it’s no surprise.

Kolly.9872:

Gaudrath.6725:

Wrong. SPvP has a completely different environment from WvW. Decreasing damage will only mean people will stack more in order to compensate. The reason WvW damage may seem high is because when 30 people just spam their attacks, whoever gets caught in that, dies. If you participated in smaller fights, you will notice that damage isn’t that high and certainly can be handled by anyone who knows what they’re doing.

What we need in WvW is to increase AoE damage by uncapping the number of targets an AoE can hit.

I am not against zergs as such, they’re natural after all, but people running in zergs need to be taught a very simple lesson – if you run around all nicely clustered up like a bunch of rabid chickens, a 5-man ambush team will kill you all.

Then we might actually see some tactics in zerg gameplay, like forward scouts, pickets and so on. And yeah… fewer blobs.

just for your knowledge I always and only do small scale balltes when in wvw.. and I’m also pretty succesful at it..
the reason is that I just find terrible that people with some well known spec can reach over 100% crit damage just by having thr right gears..
gears shouldn’t be so powerfull, and they shouldn’t give so much advantage like they do now in wvw..
WvW is full of very bad builds at the moment that just rely on gears for being succesfull, the same kind of build that in a sPvP enviroment don’t shine only because they don’t have the same advantage from too much powerfull gears..
I just think that the mix between gears and build in sPvP is what we would need for wvw too.
I have my opinion, you can have yours of course

Everyone is running around with the same full exotic sets with different stat layouts. Unless someone is upleveled, chances are it’s a fair fight.

Ilesyt.7084:

Tone down damage > Guardian = OP and practically unkillable

So nothing changes.

Please no. The same bunkers builds that exist in sPvP exist in WvW. Those build would be god-mode if they just did a straight damage reduction in WvW.

Increase healing cap.
Cap max crits at 8k.

katniss.6735:

Cap max crits at 8k.

No thanks.. why shouldn’t glass cannons be punished for their crappy armor?

nekos.2584:

Kolly.9872:

Zauric.2981:

I shudder to think how strong d/d eles would be if they nerfed the damage gear in wvw.

yeah maybe you cannot kill em, they cannot kill you either..
not much of an issue..
builds that focus everything they have on survivability just make me laugh..

You play the most ungodly over powered class in MMO history. You have no right to laugh at anything…

I play a guardian and basically if i don’t go for a full bunker build thieves will take off 10K hp instantly stealth, regen, do it again and kill me. The problem isn’t the gear it’s the people working on class balance. They flat out suck at it. There are a few classes that do just way to much DPS and and have way to many ways to escape or defend themselves and a few that do next to no damage unless they give up all defense and go total glass cannon. The class balance in this game is horrifically bad and if you listen to the state of the game video and Jon Sharp and Jon Peters it’s no surprise.

You need to improve your gameplay. I dont get killed by Zerkerthiefs and also play a Guardian.
Also thief surely is not overpovered, its lame, and easy to predict. It is just that a thief adding to a fight or a kite can end it instantly. This is not overpowered. For themselves thiefs are dead meat to anybody who has his toon under control.

Zumy.6318:

nekos.2584:

Kolly.9872:

Zauric.2981:

I shudder to think how strong d/d eles would be if they nerfed the damage gear in wvw.

yeah maybe you cannot kill em, they cannot kill you either..
not much of an issue..
builds that focus everything they have on survivability just make me laugh..

You play the most ungodly over powered class in MMO history. You have no right to laugh at anything…

I play a guardian and basically if i don’t go for a full bunker build thieves will take off 10K hp instantly stealth, regen, do it again and kill me. The problem isn’t the gear it’s the people working on class balance. They flat out suck at it. There are a few classes that do just way to much DPS and and have way to many ways to escape or defend themselves and a few that do next to no damage unless they give up all defense and go total glass cannon. The class balance in this game is horrifically bad and if you listen to the state of the game video and Jon Sharp and Jon Peters it’s no surprise.

You need to improve your gameplay. I dont get killed by Zerkerthiefs and also play a Guardian.
Also thief surely is not overpovered, its lame, and easy to predict. It is just that a thief adding to a fight or a kite can end it instantly. This is not overpowered. For themselves thiefs are dead meat to anybody who has his toon under control.

Oh god another one of these improve your game play posts. How can i improve my game play when a thieves first attack’s from stealth hit me 5 times in less then a second for 1500 each hit ? Come on, what am i going to do , swing my hammer at him and pray i get a lucky crit that will hit for 2K ? That will do so much good when a second later the thief unstealths again and does the same thing to my remaining 7K or so HP.

I’m so sick of thieves and people defending their over powered classes with that lame kitten argument. The class balance in this game is horrific and it’s as simple as that.

Damage is fine as it is….

nekos.2584:

Zumy.6318:

nekos.2584:

Kolly.9872:

Zauric.2981:

I shudder to think how strong d/d eles would be if they nerfed the damage gear in wvw.

yeah maybe you cannot kill em, they cannot kill you either..
not much of an issue..
builds that focus everything they have on survivability just make me laugh..

You play the most ungodly over powered class in MMO history. You have no right to laugh at anything…

I play a guardian and basically if i don’t go for a full bunker build thieves will take off 10K hp instantly stealth, regen, do it again and kill me. The problem isn’t the gear it’s the people working on class balance. They flat out suck at it. There are a few classes that do just way to much DPS and and have way to many ways to escape or defend themselves and a few that do next to no damage unless they give up all defense and go total glass cannon. The class balance in this game is horrifically bad and if you listen to the state of the game video and Jon Sharp and Jon Peters it’s no surprise.

You need to improve your gameplay. I dont get killed by Zerkerthiefs and also play a Guardian.
Also thief surely is not overpovered, its lame, and easy to predict. It is just that a thief adding to a fight or a kite can end it instantly. This is not overpowered. For themselves thiefs are dead meat to anybody who has his toon under control.

Oh god another one of these improve your game play posts. How can i improve my game play when a thieves first attack’s from stealth hit me 5 times in less then a second for 1500 each hit ? Come on, what am i going to do , swing my hammer at him and pray i get a lucky crit that will hit for 2K ? That will do so much good when a second later the thief unstealths again and does the same thing to my remaining 2K or so HP.

I’m so sick of thieves and people defending their over powered classes with that lame kitten argument. The class balance in this game is horrific and it’s as simple as that.

Use your shouts, blinds and dodges wisely. Also shield 5.

Zumy.6318:

nekos.2584:

Zumy.6318:

nekos.2584:

Kolly.9872:

Zauric.2981:

I shudder to think how strong d/d eles would be if they nerfed the damage gear in wvw.

yeah maybe you cannot kill em, they cannot kill you either..
not much of an issue..
builds that focus everything they have on survivability just make me laugh..

You play the most ungodly over powered class in MMO history. You have no right to laugh at anything…

I play a guardian and basically if i don’t go for a full bunker build thieves will take off 10K hp instantly stealth, regen, do it again and kill me. The problem isn’t the gear it’s the people working on class balance. They flat out suck at it. There are a few classes that do just way to much DPS and and have way to many ways to escape or defend themselves and a few that do next to no damage unless they give up all defense and go total glass cannon. The class balance in this game is horrifically bad and if you listen to the state of the game video and Jon Sharp and Jon Peters it’s no surprise.

You need to improve your gameplay. I dont get killed by Zerkerthiefs and also play a Guardian.
Also thief surely is not overpovered, its lame, and easy to predict. It is just that a thief adding to a fight or a kite can end it instantly. This is not overpowered. For themselves thiefs are dead meat to anybody who has his toon under control.

Oh god another one of these improve your game play posts. How can i improve my game play when a thieves first attack’s from stealth hit me 5 times in less then a second for 1500 each hit ? Come on, what am i going to do , swing my hammer at him and pray i get a lucky crit that will hit for 2K ? That will do so much good when a second later the thief unstealths again and does the same thing to my remaining 2K or so HP.

I’m so sick of thieves and people defending their over powered classes with that lame kitten argument. The class balance in this game is horrific and it’s as simple as that.

Use your shouts, blinds and dodges wisely. Also shield 5.

Yes because i just stand there and press 1 all day…

nekos.2584:

Zumy.6318:

nekos.2584:

Zumy.6318:

nekos.2584:

Kolly.9872:

Zauric.2981:

I shudder to think how strong d/d eles would be if they nerfed the damage gear in wvw.

yeah maybe you cannot kill em, they cannot kill you either..
not much of an issue..
builds that focus everything they have on survivability just make me laugh..

You play the most ungodly over powered class in MMO history. You have no right to laugh at anything…

I play a guardian and basically if i don’t go for a full bunker build thieves will take off 10K hp instantly stealth, regen, do it again and kill me. The problem isn’t the gear it’s the people working on class balance. They flat out suck at it. There are a few classes that do just way to much DPS and and have way to many ways to escape or defend themselves and a few that do next to no damage unless they give up all defense and go total glass cannon. The class balance in this game is horrifically bad and if you listen to the state of the game video and Jon Sharp and Jon Peters it’s no surprise.

You need to improve your gameplay. I dont get killed by Zerkerthiefs and also play a Guardian.
Also thief surely is not overpovered, its lame, and easy to predict. It is just that a thief adding to a fight or a kite can end it instantly. This is not overpowered. For themselves thiefs are dead meat to anybody who has his toon under control.

Oh god another one of these improve your game play posts. How can i improve my game play when a thieves first attack’s from stealth hit me 5 times in less then a second for 1500 each hit ? Come on, what am i going to do , swing my hammer at him and pray i get a lucky crit that will hit for 2K ? That will do so much good when a second later the thief unstealths again and does the same thing to my remaining 2K or so HP.

I’m so sick of thieves and people defending their over powered classes with that lame kitten argument. The class balance in this game is horrific and it’s as simple as that.

Use your shouts, blinds and dodges wisely. Also shield 5.

Yes because i just stand there and press 1 all day…

Most Guardian builds have no problems with Thieves. Don’t blame the profession.

Stiv.1820:

nekos.2584:

Zumy.6318:

nekos.2584:

Zumy.6318:

nekos.2584:

Kolly.9872:

Zauric.2981:

I shudder to think how strong d/d eles would be if they nerfed the damage gear in wvw.

yeah maybe you cannot kill em, they cannot kill you either..
not much of an issue..
builds that focus everything they have on survivability just make me laugh..

You play the most ungodly over powered class in MMO history. You have no right to laugh at anything…

I play a guardian and basically if i don’t go for a full bunker build thieves will take off 10K hp instantly stealth, regen, do it again and kill me. The problem isn’t the gear it’s the people working on class balance. They flat out suck at it. There are a few classes that do just way to much DPS and and have way to many ways to escape or defend themselves and a few that do next to no damage unless they give up all defense and go total glass cannon. The class balance in this game is horrifically bad and if you listen to the state of the game video and Jon Sharp and Jon Peters it’s no surprise.

You need to improve your gameplay. I dont get killed by Zerkerthiefs and also play a Guardian.
Also thief surely is not overpovered, its lame, and easy to predict. It is just that a thief adding to a fight or a kite can end it instantly. This is not overpowered. For themselves thiefs are dead meat to anybody who has his toon under control.

Oh god another one of these improve your game play posts. How can i improve my game play when a thieves first attack’s from stealth hit me 5 times in less then a second for 1500 each hit ? Come on, what am i going to do , swing my hammer at him and pray i get a lucky crit that will hit for 2K ? That will do so much good when a second later the thief unstealths again and does the same thing to my remaining 2K or so HP.

I’m so sick of thieves and people defending their over powered classes with that lame kitten argument. The class balance in this game is horrific and it’s as simple as that.

Use your shouts, blinds and dodges wisely. Also shield 5.

Yes because i just stand there and press 1 all day…

Most Guardian builds have no problems with Thieves. Don’t blame the profession.

I can stand toe to toe with a thief for a while. That’s not the problem. I’m forced to make a bunker build in order to do so.

Again, the problem is the horrifically bad class balance in this game. When a thief can go full class cannon and survive 5 – 10 people of all skill levels and builds attacking them because of the abilities they were given, there is a problem.

I’m only singling out thieves because they are the most grossly over powered class in the game. Other classes like rangers and eng’s are severely under powered. Again it goes back to my original point, the class balance in this game flat out sucks !

Ilesyt.7084:

Tone down damage > Guardian = OP and practically unkillable

So wrong. I have never had problems against guardians or D/D bunker eles in WvWvW. They cannot kill anything unless you stand still in their path! And trust me, enough condition damage, knock down/back etc. will get even the best bunker downed.

The insane burst is the problem and making some people want to run the bunkers. If the burst would be limited there would be less reasons to run a bunker. Then a more balanced build would be the choice of elite players, like it was in GW1. Balanced builds and teams were usually the best in GvG.

The overall continuous damage is fine, just limit the burst to reasonable levels, let’s say max 3k/hit. Ballistas, catapults and other siege are an exception and should do the same damage they do currently.

Now if you have read other forums, you can see screen shots of sturdy warrior with 3500 armor+toughness and 25k+ health, getting 13000 points damage from a backstab. Steal and C&D doing many k dmg. Only such skills, which are telegraphed and slow to activate e.g. elementalist’s churning earth should be able to do more damage, let’s say max 5k per hit. After getting rid of excessive burst, which smart player would want to run a bunker?

Do you remember how bunkers did in GW1? I mean builds like the healing hands W/Mo (a bad bunker). They were the last left of their losing team. Bunkers never won matches. Smart players always chose damage over being too much of a tank. GW1 had problems with balance, but had much better and more varied pvp than GW2. The current insane burst leads to static boring meta with only few builds.

It doesn’t help if your bunker can stay up if the guild lord near it still dies. Conditions are the key to win those NPCs, not a burst.

A good group of well organized people is unkillable if they turtle right now.
So no, damage is fine IF not too low when talking about conditions (the issue is the ease in removing em)

The only problem right now is how good a full zerker player perform in small environments.
Thieves in berserker gear perform very good so in 1v1 you will not only lose, but also get 2hitted because he needs 0 toughness to be effective “overall”.
A guardian with 0 toughness and 11k hp will be dead meat, that’s why you will never see one, but it still deals tons of damage, i once critted 9.4k with the torch fireball.
If they want to fix bursts when skirmishing, they need to make that no classes/builds perform good with glass cannon gear in 1v1, 2v2 and such, but can still be effective in big groups, like staff elementalist, but i honestly don’t feel the need of it.
There are much bigger issues in wvw right now.

People who wear heavy armor don’t know what a backstab or killshot does to the rest of us.

I wear knight’s which has higher toughness than invaders, and a kill shot still hits me for 10k from a non-glass cannon warrior. Do I lose? No, because I know how to play my class. The chat is filled with people who complain about that warrior, though. I don’t want to play a thief or a warrior. I like my class, it’s fun. I want to do more damage, but I want to take less damage even more.

Staff AoE damage is pretty terrible for Elementalist. I don’t know why anyone complains about Meteor Shower after the AoE nerf. Dodge and avoid the entire thing. Oh, you got clipped for a single 3k hit. Nerf AoE!

I never died to AoE specific damage before the nerf, and now I never die to it. I don’t even die to arrow carts or cannons. I shoot people with all kinds of siege and they are rezzed easily. The AoE nerf just made everything take twice as much siege, which means you have to babysit siege every hour, or poof. Failed experiment is fail.

My class analysis summary:

People who play thieves in this game are trolls. Period. Everyone knows how they work in this game and how easy it is to pick off undergeared players. The thief does this better than anyone.

Mesmers are trolls in training. It’s like whack-a-mole. Also, remove the stacks or run away. giggity-goo.

RTL eles are annoying, but really, if we have to RTL away to reset a fight, it’s because we are out of utilities from the previous fighting. Not because you’re better. Have you ever lost 1v1 to a staff ele? That’s a skill issue if you have.

Warrior’s Killshot is annoying.

Rangers are LOL. Go take out a treb or something.

Eng take skill to be good at, mostly because most people don’t know how to counter them.

Necro takes skill. There’s so few of them roaming, I can’t even really comment on that. In a zerg they are game changers.

Bunker guardians are doomed after they’re outnumbered pretty much. I can’t really kill them as a bunker.

Actually what Anet needs to do is to put in a modifier for the scoring system that is derived from the number of people on a given map at a given time. For example you get 10 points per scoring tick for every tower you control. However if you outnumber your enemy by a 10:1 margin your server would receive a modified score for that tower. In a rather over simplified form since you outnumber the enemy by 10:1 you would only get 1/10th of the points every scoring tick for that tower or 1 point. If you are holding that tower and are outnumbered 10:1 you would bonus points but 100 would be definately too many here. Have not got this totally figured out yet, and if numbers were even (within a plus/minus spread) you would get 10 points.

Then remove the scoring tick countdown so nobody knows exactly when the score will update to prevent logging in and out to manipulate the scores.

It would even out scoring and it would also force servers to keep people on each map in order to maximize their possible point score rather than moving their whole zerg from map to map plus lower population servers would be on a more equal footing. If a small team of 6 goes into an enemy borderland and ninjas a keep while totally outmanned they should get more points versus having a 50 man zerg doing the same thing.

As I stated the exact modifier would have to be figured out but it may be a possible solution. Just some random thoughts.

Rangers are no longer lul status and the funny thing is, there hasn’t even been that much changed, just some small fixes. Now every Ranger I run into has protection on dodge, why was no one running this for the past 6 months? It’s just like Ele’s being a joke until someone figured out D/D and now that’s all you see.

I ran into an Engineer last match up that was completely unkillable. He went into stealth more than a thief, he stacked the crap out of condition duration reduction so nothing could stick to him. So mobile an entire groups couldn’t touch him.

The tools have been there all along people just haven’t been using them much yet.

If you want your game more mistake-friendly (read noob-friendly), then spec your character accordingly: go stealth spam thief or bunker ele, and you’ll survive through a nuclear war.

Other classes like rangers and eng’s are severely under powered. Again it goes back to my original point, the class balance in this game flat out sucks !

They are not.. Rangers are very good when played right. Second only to thief and d/d ele when it comes to 1v1 brawl on an open field. They do take quite a bit of skill though, as you have too coordinate pet attacks carefully. You must also have correct gear and build.

Except for the 10k+ hits from permastealthed thieves, I am ok with the damage. You can usually avoid the other big hits

Zumy.6318:

nekos.2584:

Kolly.9872:

Zauric.2981:

I shudder to think how strong d/d eles would be if they nerfed the damage gear in wvw.

yeah maybe you cannot kill em, they cannot kill you either..
not much of an issue..
builds that focus everything they have on survivability just make me laugh..

You play the most ungodly over powered class in MMO history. You have no right to laugh at anything…

I play a guardian and basically if i don’t go for a full bunker build thieves will take off 10K hp instantly stealth, regen, do it again and kill me. The problem isn’t the gear it’s the people working on class balance. They flat out suck at it. There are a few classes that do just way to much DPS and and have way to many ways to escape or defend themselves and a few that do next to no damage unless they give up all defense and go total glass cannon. The class balance in this game is horrifically bad and if you listen to the state of the game video and Jon Sharp and Jon Peters it’s no surprise.

You need to improve your gameplay. I dont get killed by Zerkerthiefs and also play a Guardian.
Also thief surely is not overpovered, its lame, and easy to predict. It is just that a thief adding to a fight or a kite can end it instantly. This is not overpowered. For themselves thiefs are dead meat to anybody who has his toon under control.

Wrong . Perma stealth + highest dps is god mode.

Master of Timespace.2548:

If you want your game more mistake-friendly (read noob-friendly), then spec your character accordingly: go stealth spam thief or bunker ele, and you you’ll survive through a nuclear war.

Other classes like rangers and eng’s are severely under powered. Again it goes back to my original point, the class balance in this game flat out sucks !

They are not.. Rangers are very good when played right. Second only to thief and d/d ele when it comes to 1v1 brawl on an open field. They do take quite a bit of skill though, as you have too coordinate pet attacks carefully. You must also have correct gear and build.

The only remotely good ranger build i have come across, played or fought against is the trapper build and that’s a gimmick build that, if you watch to the state of the game video, will be nerfed. And lol at timing pets, especially in WvW.

nekos.2584:

Master of Timespace.2548:

If you want your game more mistake-friendly (read noob-friendly), then spec your character accordingly: go stealth spam thief or bunker ele, and you you’ll survive through a nuclear war.

Other classes like rangers and eng’s are severely under powered. Again it goes back to my original point, the class balance in this game flat out sucks !

They are not.. Rangers are very good when played right. Second only to thief and d/d ele when it comes to 1v1 brawl on an open field. They do take quite a bit of skill though, as you have too coordinate pet attacks carefully. You must also have correct gear and build.

The only remotely good ranger build i have come across, played or fought against is the trapper build and that’s a gimmick build that, if you watch to the state of the game video, will be nerfed.

Yah, that trapper build indeed is what I’m talking about. It’s decent but certainly doesn’t need a nerf. P/d thief and bunker eles are still a lot more powerful. But what video?

Damage is high in WvW because WvW uses the PvE ruleset and PvE gear. The #1 difference is crit damage %.

In sPvP, Berserker amulet has what, 20% crit damage, total? If you stack all the crit damage you can in sPvP, you will reach approximately +60% crit damage. In PvE gear, you can reach around 110% crit damage. This is a rather significant difference.

If WvW used PvP gear, it would have significantly less in the way of absurd damage spikes.

The downside is that PvP gear is not granular, so you have kittenty customization options for stats.

nekos.2584:

Stiv.1820:

nekos.2584:

Zumy.6318:

nekos.2584:

Zumy.6318:

nekos.2584:

Kolly.9872:

Zauric.2981:

I shudder to think how strong d/d eles would be if they nerfed the damage gear in wvw.

yeah maybe you cannot kill em, they cannot kill you either..
not much of an issue..
builds that focus everything they have on survivability just make me laugh..

You play the most ungodly over powered class in MMO history. You have no right to laugh at anything…

I play a guardian and basically if i don’t go for a full bunker build thieves will take off 10K hp instantly stealth, regen, do it again and kill me. The problem isn’t the gear it’s the people working on class balance. They flat out suck at it. There are a few classes that do just way to much DPS and and have way to many ways to escape or defend themselves and a few that do next to no damage unless they give up all defense and go total glass cannon. The class balance in this game is horrifically bad and if you listen to the state of the game video and Jon Sharp and Jon Peters it’s no surprise.

You need to improve your gameplay. I dont get killed by Zerkerthiefs and also play a Guardian.
Also thief surely is not overpovered, its lame, and easy to predict. It is just that a thief adding to a fight or a kite can end it instantly. This is not overpowered. For themselves thiefs are dead meat to anybody who has his toon under control.

Oh god another one of these improve your game play posts. How can i improve my game play when a thieves first attack’s from stealth hit me 5 times in less then a second for 1500 each hit ? Come on, what am i going to do , swing my hammer at him and pray i get a lucky crit that will hit for 2K ? That will do so much good when a second later the thief unstealths again and does the same thing to my remaining 2K or so HP.

I’m so sick of thieves and people defending their over powered classes with that lame kitten argument. The class balance in this game is horrific and it’s as simple as that.

Use your shouts, blinds and dodges wisely. Also shield 5.

Yes because i just stand there and press 1 all day…

Most Guardian builds have no problems with Thieves. Don’t blame the profession.

I can stand toe to toe with a thief for a while. That’s not the problem. I’m forced to make a bunker build in order to do so.

Again, the problem is the horrifically bad class balance in this game. When a thief can go full class cannon and survive 5 – 10 people of all skill levels and builds attacking them because of the abilities they were given, there is a problem.

I’m only singling out thieves because they are the most grossly over powered class in the game. Other classes like rangers and eng’s are severely under powered. Again it goes back to my original point, the class balance in this game flat out sucks !

My advice to you is to play a thief before complaining.

Also you should be able to kill a GC DD thief as fast as he kills you. Teh reason being? GC thieves are really REALLY glassy. greatsword 5 follows the thief even if he’s in stealth. Save gap closers for when he unstealths, and hammer 2 OR hammer 5 then hammer 2 for right after he stealths. That thief’s main skill rotation is “use up burst, escape, return to finish job after initiative recharges”. If you mitigate his burst (not that hard to do, just dodge, and aegis will block the first attack anyways; which usually is backstab— he can’t exactly put up a sustained attack so if you AVOID his damage he’s completely useless for the next 10 seconds he needs for his initiative to recharge). And if you pressure him with those simple area CC skills that I swear every single class has, well unless he’s a very GOOD thief (in which case you would deserve to lose) you actually shouldn’t take much damage cause he’s be trying to escape.

TL;DR backstab thief goes burst escape wait burst, Interrupt that rotation by staying on him and gg.

The biggest mistake people make when fighting thieves is assuming the thief is assuming the thief is invincible/gone or otherwise can’t be attacked. Absolutely not true.

By the way, I’m a SUPPORT guardian and I’ve never lost a 1v1 to a backstab thief. I’ll admit to losing my fair share of 1v1’s to OTHER thief builds but never to a backstab thief.

Teamkiller.4315:

nekos.2584:

Stiv.1820:

nekos.2584:

Zumy.6318:

nekos.2584:

Zumy.6318:

nekos.2584:

Kolly.9872:

Zauric.2981:

I shudder to think how strong d/d eles would be if they nerfed the damage gear in wvw.

yeah maybe you cannot kill em, they cannot kill you either..
not much of an issue..
builds that focus everything they have on survivability just make me laugh..

You play the most ungodly over powered class in MMO history. You have no right to laugh at anything…

I play a guardian and basically if i don’t go for a full bunker build thieves will take off 10K hp instantly stealth, regen, do it again and kill me. The problem isn’t the gear it’s the people working on class balance. They flat out suck at it. There are a few classes that do just way to much DPS and and have way to many ways to escape or defend themselves and a few that do next to no damage unless they give up all defense and go total glass cannon. The class balance in this game is horrifically bad and if you listen to the state of the game video and Jon Sharp and Jon Peters it’s no surprise.

You need to improve your gameplay. I dont get killed by Zerkerthiefs and also play a Guardian.
Also thief surely is not overpovered, its lame, and easy to predict. It is just that a thief adding to a fight or a kite can end it instantly. This is not overpowered. For themselves thiefs are dead meat to anybody who has his toon under control.

Oh god another one of these improve your game play posts. How can i improve my game play when a thieves first attack’s from stealth hit me 5 times in less then a second for 1500 each hit ? Come on, what am i going to do , swing my hammer at him and pray i get a lucky crit that will hit for 2K ? That will do so much good when a second later the thief unstealths again and does the same thing to my remaining 2K or so HP.

I’m so sick of thieves and people defending their over powered classes with that lame kitten argument. The class balance in this game is horrific and it’s as simple as that.

Use your shouts, blinds and dodges wisely. Also shield 5.

Yes because i just stand there and press 1 all day…

Most Guardian builds have no problems with Thieves. Don’t blame the profession.

I can stand toe to toe with a thief for a while. That’s not the problem. I’m forced to make a bunker build in order to do so.

Again, the problem is the horrifically bad class balance in this game. When a thief can go full class cannon and survive 5 – 10 people of all skill levels and builds attacking them because of the abilities they were given, there is a problem.

I’m only singling out thieves because they are the most grossly over powered class in the game. Other classes like rangers and eng’s are severely under powered. Again it goes back to my original point, the class balance in this game flat out sucks !

My advice to you is to play a thief before complaining.

Also you should be able to kill a GC DD thief as fast as he kills you. Teh reason being? GC thieves are really REALLY glassy. greatsword 5 follows the thief even if he’s in stealth. Save gap closers for when he unstealths, and hammer 2 OR hammer 5 then hammer 2 for right after he stealths. That thief’s main skill rotation is “use up burst, escape, return to finish job after initiative recharges”. If you mitigate his burst (not that hard to do, just dodge, and aegis will block the first attack anyways; which usually is backstab— he can’t exactly put up a sustained attack so if you AVOID his damage he’s completely useless for the next 10 seconds he needs for his initiative to recharge). And if you pressure him with those simple area CC skills that I swear every single class has, well unless he’s a very GOOD thief (in which case you would deserve to lose) you actually shouldn’t take much damage cause he’s be trying to escape.

TL;DR backstab thief goes burst escape wait burst, Interrupt that rotation by staying on him and gg.

The biggest mistake people make when fighting thieves is assuming the thief is assuming the thief is invincible/gone or otherwise can’t be attacked. Absolutely not true.

By the way, I’m a SUPPORT guardian and I’ve never lost a 1v1 to a backstab thief. I’ll admit to losing my fair share of 1v1’s to OTHER thief builds but never to a backstab thief.

Yep because we all know thieves just stand in the same place while in stealth so i can hit them.

Gaudrath.6725:

Wrong. SPvP has a completely different environment from WvW. Decreasing damage will only mean people will stack more in order to compensate. The reason WvW damage may seem high is because when 30 people just spam their attacks, whoever gets caught in that, dies. If you participated in smaller fights, you will notice that damage isn’t that high and certainly can be handled by anyone who knows what they’re doing.

What we need in WvW is to increase AoE damage by uncapping the number of targets an AoE can hit.

I am not against zergs as such, they’re natural after all, but people running in zergs need to be taught a very simple lesson – if you run around all nicely clustered up like a bunch of rabid chickens, a 5-man ambush team will kill you all.

Then we might actually see some tactics in zerg gameplay, like forward scouts, pickets and so on. And yeah… fewer blobs.

Completely agree

nekos.2584:

Teamkiller.4315:

nekos.2584:

Stiv.1820:

nekos.2584:

Zumy.6318:

nekos.2584:

Zumy.6318:

nekos.2584:

Kolly.9872:

Zauric.2981:

I shudder to think how strong d/d eles would be if they nerfed the damage gear in wvw.

yeah maybe you cannot kill em, they cannot kill you either..
not much of an issue..
builds that focus everything they have on survivability just make me laugh..

You play the most ungodly over powered class in MMO history. You have no right to laugh at anything…

I play a guardian and basically if i don’t go for a full bunker build thieves will take off 10K hp instantly stealth, regen, do it again and kill me. The problem isn’t the gear it’s the people working on class balance. They flat out suck at it. There are a few classes that do just way to much DPS and and have way to many ways to escape or defend themselves and a few that do next to no damage unless they give up all defense and go total glass cannon. The class balance in this game is horrifically bad and if you listen to the state of the game video and Jon Sharp and Jon Peters it’s no surprise.

You need to improve your gameplay. I dont get killed by Zerkerthiefs and also play a Guardian.
Also thief surely is not overpovered, its lame, and easy to predict. It is just that a thief adding to a fight or a kite can end it instantly. This is not overpowered. For themselves thiefs are dead meat to anybody who has his toon under control.

Oh god another one of these improve your game play posts. How can i improve my game play when a thieves first attack’s from stealth hit me 5 times in less then a second for 1500 each hit ? Come on, what am i going to do , swing my hammer at him and pray i get a lucky crit that will hit for 2K ? That will do so much good when a second later the thief unstealths again and does the same thing to my remaining 2K or so HP.

I’m so sick of thieves and people defending their over powered classes with that lame kitten argument. The class balance in this game is horrific and it’s as simple as that.

Use your shouts, blinds and dodges wisely. Also shield 5.

Yes because i just stand there and press 1 all day…

Most Guardian builds have no problems with Thieves. Don’t blame the profession.

I can stand toe to toe with a thief for a while. That’s not the problem. I’m forced to make a bunker build in order to do so.

Again, the problem is the horrifically bad class balance in this game. When a thief can go full class cannon and survive 5 – 10 people of all skill levels and builds attacking them because of the abilities they were given, there is a problem.

I’m only singling out thieves because they are the most grossly over powered class in the game. Other classes like rangers and eng’s are severely under powered. Again it goes back to my original point, the class balance in this game flat out sucks !

My advice to you is to play a thief before complaining.

Also you should be able to kill a GC DD thief as fast as he kills you. Teh reason being? GC thieves are really REALLY glassy. greatsword 5 follows the thief even if he’s in stealth. Save gap closers for when he unstealths, and hammer 2 OR hammer 5 then hammer 2 for right after he stealths. That thief’s main skill rotation is “use up burst, escape, return to finish job after initiative recharges”. If you mitigate his burst (not that hard to do, just dodge, and aegis will block the first attack anyways; which usually is backstab— he can’t exactly put up a sustained attack so if you AVOID his damage he’s completely useless for the next 10 seconds he needs for his initiative to recharge). And if you pressure him with those simple area CC skills that I swear every single class has, well unless he’s a very GOOD thief (in which case you would deserve to lose) you actually shouldn’t take much damage cause he’s be trying to escape.

TL;DR backstab thief goes burst escape wait burst, Interrupt that rotation by staying on him and gg.

The biggest mistake people make when fighting thieves is assuming the thief is assuming the thief is invincible/gone or otherwise can’t be attacked. Absolutely not true.

By the way, I’m a SUPPORT guardian and I’ve never lost a 1v1 to a backstab thief. I’ll admit to losing my fair share of 1v1’s to OTHER thief builds but never to a backstab thief.

Yep because we all know thieves just stand in the same place while in stealth so i can hit them.

Did you like ignore what I wrote?

Also did you know that all classes have the same default run speed? Just food for thought.

Teamkiller.4315:

Did you like ignore what I wrote?

Yes actually i did because i don’t need to read the same thing the thief community repeats over and over again because they are just so good at the game and every one else needs to learn to play.

[/quote]

Did you like ignore what I wrote?

Also did you know that all classes have the same default run speed? Just food for thought.[/quote]

your advice is impractical. with perma stealth, it’s nearly impossible to target thieves. also thieves have much higher run speed.

Kolly.9872:

Tone down the general damage in WvWvW

Because warriors and gaurdians need love? That’s all that would accomplish.

nekos.2584:

Teamkiller.4315:

Did you like ignore what I wrote?

Yes actually i did because i don’t need to read the same thing the thief community repeats over and over again because they are just so good at the game and every one else needs to learn to play.

I’m a GUARDIAN. And yes you DO need to l2p. Dodging is something you do against all classes. Trapping them in melee is something you do against ALL classes. It’s not exclusive to fighting thieves.

your advice is impractical. with perma stealth, it’s nearly impossible to target thieves. also thieves have much higher run speed.

Thieves dont have a higher default run speed. You have no idea what you’re talking about. They can equip signet of shadows to increase it but it costs a utility slot.

Thieves also cannot perma stealth if they intend to attack. Those who spec into it are mostly useless outside of scouting. Yes, they’re useless for killing anything but other glass cannons as well. And even then as soon as they attack they get revealed, which prevents them from restealthing.

Seriously, l2p

Columba.9730:

Teamkiller.4315:

nekos.2584:

Teamkiller.4315:

Did you like ignore what I wrote?

Yes actually i did because i don’t need to read the same thing the thief community repeats over and over again because they are just so good at the game and every one else needs to learn to play.

I’m a GUARDIAN. And yes you DO need to l2p. Dodging is something you do against all classes. Trapping them in melee is something you do against ALL classes. It’s not exclusive to fighting thieves.

your advice is impractical. with perma stealth, it’s nearly impossible to target thieves. also thieves have much higher run speed.

Thieves dont have a higher default run speed. You have no idea what you’re talking about. They can equip signet of shadows to increase it but it costs a utility slot.

Thieves also cannot perma stealth if they intend to attack. Those who spec into it are mostly useless outside of scouting. Yes, they’re useless for killing anything but other glass cannons as well. And even then as soon as they attack they get revealed, which prevents them from restealthing.

Seriously, l2p

so if permastealth is useless, then why are thieves defending keeping it so much. plenty of videos have been posted showing permastealth and attacking.

This is patently untrue. Show me a single video where a thief is attacking from stealth and remains in stealth. Culling is the only reason that the thief would be considered op, and that is a computer issue, not a game balance issue. C&D is not true permastealth because he comes out of stealth, winds up C&D, then goes back in and doesn’t do dmg until he is back out of stealth. The reason you don’t see him is because Anet vastly over calculated the capabilities of the avg gamer’s computer, not due to a bad job balancing thieves.

Yes permastealth exists, BUT YOU CAN NOT ATTACK WHILE DOING IT without breaking the stealth for 3 seconds. The reason that the class defends it is because permastealth is a useful ability for scouting, not killing. People that spec permastealth builds are not the same as the glass cannon builds that burst.

I plan my main thief as both tanky s/d and glass d/d, depending on my mood and what role I want to take. I am most likely an average player, and when playing my glass thief, get stomped by any other equally geared player that uses cc effectively. Gaurdians stomp me consistently if you do what teamkiller says. just because you cant see me getting hit by wild swings from autoattacks doesn’t mean it inst happening. my thief has 10k hp when daggers are out. 10k. Let that sink in.

10k means that a single guardian burn can take out half my hp. a single backstab from another gc takes out 80% of my hp. A killshot warr can 2 shot me easy, and a 100b warr can mop the floor with me if I don’t see it coming. A sword shield gaurdian can land his 2 then 3 for almost half my life if they build conservatively and still maintain 1800 toughness. The glass build doesn’t have but a single condition removal and its also my one heal. Most don’t even have a stunbreak except for steal, which they use on the opener. Most don’t run the single stability spell we have, which is out ult: daggerstorm. How many knockdowns does a guardian have at their disposal?

Most importantly, GC thief is the single most gimmicky and predictable class there is. I barely ever lose against another thief not because I get the drop on them, but because once they stealth I know exactly where they are going and what they are doing. if they stealth they are (in this order of priority):

1. Going to stealth stomp a downed player.
2. Going to heal if they are lower than 50%.
3. Going to set up another backstab with C&D.
4. Going to run away if you are still above 50% hp after their burst is over.

Hint: They will always take the least cluttered route to safety in the direction of their own territory, and wont leave SR until the circle disappears, use a aoe or hammer knockback or Greatsword 5 to pull them out of the circle and then beat them to death.

It’s pointless to give facts and any point of view to Columba. He won’t be happy until he can one shot thieves, or until thieves are removed from the game completely. Nearly 15 pages of the same anti-thief rhetoric. It’s obvious what his intentions are.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/Columba-9730/showposts

Learn to not wear Beserker gear in WvW….