Guild Wars 2

Fuzzion.2504:

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Terrahero.9358:

Is it working as intented that Traps can be placed while in stealth, without breaking stealth?

And what about placing a trap and then blinking/shadowstepping away, which results in you finishing the trap from a distance?

What about both of those together?
Remote stealth trap placement underneath a zerg?

What about the massive advantage Thieves have in placing traps and using them as an effective tool in WvW compared to other professions because they can place traps in an enemy zerg?

Hi again everyone,

I will say we want there to be play with the traps, but placing the traps while in stealth has very little counter to it, so we will be evaluating whether we would like to change this implementation. Thanks to everyone for you feedback and concerns.

Hugh

Seems a little OP if traps could be placed while in stealth.

could?

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

players could use them in different strategic ways

I like the general idea BUT both traps seem to be a little bit OP.
Two thieves, as already stated in several videos, can break the game of a whole zerg in terms of sieging.
Just one guy can break more than the half of the build of a group of thieves for ¿30 sec?
Gamebreaking tools.
Reduce slightly the power of both traps.

Best regards,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Terrahero.9358:

Is it working as intented that Traps can be placed while in stealth, without breaking stealth?

And what about placing a trap and then blinking/shadowstepping away, which results in you finishing the trap from a distance?

What about both of those together?
Remote stealth trap placement underneath a zerg?

What about the massive advantage Thieves have in placing traps and using them as an effective tool in WvW compared to other professions because they can place traps in an enemy zerg?

Hi again everyone,

I will say we want there to be play with the traps, but placing the traps while in stealth has very little counter to it, so we will be evaluating whether we would like to change this implementation. Thanks to everyone for you feedback and concerns.

Hugh

You don’t play your own game. You should do it or make a test server so we do it for ya. Since you don’t realise or even have the knowledge of what each class is able to do when implementing anything.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

but placing the traps while in stealth has very little counter to it, so we will be evaluating whether we would like to change this implementation.

Activating an stealth trap has very little counter to it, almost 100% of the viable thief builds relay on stealth. Consider to reduce the unstealthed time or give a 50% spring chance. This trap is gamebreaking against groups of thieves, a situation that does not occur with other classes.
Introducing the supply and stealth traps you increased the metagame of thieves by sacrificing their survival, if we can not even place them in stealth you will break our metagame possibilities and survival at the same time.
There is, in fact, a counter measure against supply traps managed by players in stealth, they are called antistealth traps indeed.

Best regards,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

Wait, stealth traps trigger on any enemy player even when they are not stealth? WTF that is the dumbest thing Ive ever heard, and I knew a guy that picked up power lines that went down with his bare hands.

Haltair.3062:

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

but placing the traps while in stealth has very little counter to it, so we will be evaluating whether we would like to change this implementation.

Activating an stealth trap has very little counter to it, almost 100% of the viable thief builds relay on stealth. Consider to reduce the unstealthed time or give a 50% spring chance. This trap is gamebreaking against groups of thieves, a situation that does not occur with other classes.
Introducing the supply and stealth traps you increased the metagame of thieves by sacrificing their survival, if we can not even place them in stealth you will break our metagame possibilities and survival at the same time.
There is, in fact, a counter measure against supply traps managed by players in stealth, they are called antistealth traps indeed.

Best regards,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

There must be some viable thief builds that do not use stealth? I’ve seen some sb thieves that never go in stealth, same for sword/dagger.

Anyways saying that there is a counter to the supplystealing trap is not true.
You cannot know when the thief will hit you and you can never be fast enough to build the trap if he does. You cannot make an entire path out of stealth traps just so you can’t get hit by the supplytrap. The triggerzone is very small so even if you know where he is, it is still going to be extremely difficult to actually put it down where he will hit it.

BUT

Assuming you could do all this, the thief still wins. Why? Because he may not have been able to steal your supply but he did force you to use your supply to build traps. Mission accomplished. Supply wasted.

There is NO counter to trolling thieves like that (especially not with skills that don’t break the channel).

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hi again everyone,

I will say we want there to be play with the traps, but placing the traps while in stealth has very little counter to it, so we will be evaluating whether we would like to change this implementation. Thanks to everyone for you feedback and concerns.

Hugh

And this thought never occured to you prior to making the traps? Yet it took a player like me a matter of 5-10 mins, to not only consider stealth but the ability to teleport while using the trap. So… as has been pointed out, do you guys actually know how to play your game? Do you actually have other players testing the game, and if yes, do they even know how to play the game? Somehow I feel the answer to both of these questions right now is a conclusive no. Dw, I can balance your game for you for free.. not like it requires much brain power, this game is already super simplistic but it seems you guys still keep getting it wrong.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Second questions:
Will the trap spring even if:
A) the person walking over it isn’t stealthed, or
B) the person walking over it doesn’t have any supply?

Answer:
Yes, any “Enemy Player” can trigger the traps. This means that pets, clones, Npc’s, and ambient creatures CANNOT trigger the traps. This design was set so players wouldn’t put traps (especially the supply trap) on supply holds. Image if your zerg/small party didn’t have supply and went to restock at supply hold that had a few supply remove traps. As soon as the team has supply BOOM “Trapified” your supply is gone.

Well, I am pretty sure someone posted a video of them going stealth into a zerg that was picking up supply at a camp and placing a trap right in the middle. Several times.

Rawr.5930:

It’s 15 badges AND 525 karma, or am i reading it wrong?

That is freaking expensive.

If it’s either badges or karma then its cheap as chips karma wise.

Yes it is 15 badges AND 525 Karma.

Meglobob.8620:

Is it me or is the supply removal one awesome?

I mean -5 supply from 20 people in a zerg, that’s potentially -100 supply gone like that…

This is fun..how exactly ? It works both ways,i still have to find the fun part in this…Doubt i’ll ever find it.Supply running is already a pain,Think reset…Supplys are low allover the place.Towers are upgrading,camps are upgrading,everything is drained..Then you got some people running around placing traps leaving 0 supps left on a map,that Is a possible situation.What will you do when theres 0 supps,or not enough to be of any use,people placing traps like map men in the meanwhile to make sure all stay at 0 ?

Caliban.3176:

Fuzzion.2504:

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Terrahero.9358:

Is it working as intented that Traps can be placed while in stealth, without breaking stealth?

And what about placing a trap and then blinking/shadowstepping away, which results in you finishing the trap from a distance?

What about both of those together?
Remote stealth trap placement underneath a zerg?

What about the massive advantage Thieves have in placing traps and using them as an effective tool in WvW compared to other professions because they can place traps in an enemy zerg?

Hi again everyone,

I will say we want there to be play with the traps, but placing the traps while in stealth has very little counter to it, so we will be evaluating whether we would like to change this implementation. Thanks to everyone for you feedback and concerns.

Hugh

Seems a little OP if traps could be placed while in stealth.

could?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv4P-kTBzE0

Also..this is what i was afraid of,I knew it….Anet why the hell are you doing this crap

Caedmon.6798:

Caliban.3176:

Fuzzion.2504:

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Terrahero.9358:

Is it working as intented that Traps can be placed while in stealth, without breaking stealth?

And what about placing a trap and then blinking/shadowstepping away, which results in you finishing the trap from a distance?

What about both of those together?
Remote stealth trap placement underneath a zerg?

What about the massive advantage Thieves have in placing traps and using them as an effective tool in WvW compared to other professions because they can place traps in an enemy zerg?

Hi again everyone,

I will say we want there to be play with the traps, but placing the traps while in stealth has very little counter to it, so we will be evaluating whether we would like to change this implementation. Thanks to everyone for you feedback and concerns.

Hugh

Seems a little OP if traps could be placed while in stealth.

could?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv4P-kTBzE0

Also..this is what i was afraid of,I knew it….Anet why the hell are you doing this crap

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

This design was set so players wouldn’t put traps (especially the supply trap) on supply holds. Image if your zerg/small party didn’t have supply and went to restock at supply hold that had a few supply remove traps. As soon as the team has supply BOOM “Trapified” your supply is gone.

Which is exactly what is happening in the video.

Caedmon.6798:

Meglobob.8620:

Is it me or is the supply removal one awesome?

I mean -5 supply from 20 people in a zerg, that’s potentially -100 supply gone like that…

This is fun..how exactly ? It works both ways,i still have to find the fun part in this…Doubt i’ll ever find it.Supply running is already a pain,Think reset…Supplys are low allover the place.Towers are upgrading,camps are upgrading,everything is drained..Then you got some people running around placing traps leaving 0 supps left on a map,that Is a possible situation.What will you do when theres 0 supps,or not enough to be of any use,people placing traps like map men in the meanwhile to make sure all stay at 0 ?

I agree with you, I mean’t its very powerful trap…

It will spoil WvW if the traps start being used on mass, no one will be able to take a fortification…because they have no supply to build siege…

Haltair.3062:

Activating a stealth trap has very little counter to it, almost 100% of the viable glass cannon thief builds relay on stealth.

Fixed that for you.

loseros.5912:

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Terrahero.9358:

Is it working as intented that Traps can be placed while in stealth, without breaking stealth?

And what about placing a trap and then blinking/shadowstepping away, which results in you finishing the trap from a distance?

What about both of those together?
Remote stealth trap placement underneath a zerg?

What about the massive advantage Thieves have in placing traps and using them as an effective tool in WvW compared to other professions because they can place traps in an enemy zerg?

Hi again everyone,

I will say we want there to be play with the traps, but placing the traps while in stealth has very little counter to it, so we will be evaluating whether we would like to change this implementation. Thanks to everyone for you feedback and concerns.

Hugh

You don’t play your own game. You should do it or make a test server so we do it for ya. Since you don’t realise or even have the knowledge of what each class is able to do when implementing anything.

I have to agree with the sentiment of this poster. I don’t think ArenaNet has the bandwidth to adequately test these changes. A beta server is a must.

Given how a thief can effectively use these traps in a manner which the developers have explicitly stated is against their intended design, I’d strongly suggest supply traps be disabled in WvW until a fix has been made.

AndrewSX.3794:

Traps are sold by the vendor for 15 badges and 525 karma; they will stack to 250 and are account-bound.

Misleading; 15 badges AND 525 Karma or is it 15 badges OR 525 Karma?

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Terrahero.9358:

Is it working as intented that Traps can be placed while in stealth, without breaking stealth?

And what about placing a trap and then blinking/shadowstepping away, which results in you finishing the trap from a distance?

What about both of those together?
Remote stealth trap placement underneath a zerg?

What about the massive advantage Thieves have in placing traps and using them as an effective tool in WvW compared to other professions because they can place traps in an enemy zerg?

Hi again everyone,

I will say we want there to be play with the traps, but placing the traps while in stealth has very little counter to it, so we will be evaluating whether we would like to change this implementation. Thanks to everyone for you feedback and concerns.

Hugh

Thieves in big scale fight are really underwhelmed so why fix this? Isn’t really a problem, just a trick (that thieves should be masters).
Actually all WvW spin around elementalists, mesmers, and guardian, create mechanics that makes funny also other classes wouldn’t bad idea.
Actually will be really awesome work with you team to create new mechanics and playstyle, i have a really great attidude in this type of work you just can enjoy for a job like mine.

Daemonne.5018:

AndrewSX.3794:

Traps are sold by the vendor for 15 badges and 525 karma; they will stack to 250 and are account-bound.

Misleading; 15 badges AND 525 Karma or is it 15 badges OR 525 Karma?

AND

Still not expensive

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hi again everyone,

I will say we want there to be play with the traps, but placing the traps while in stealth has very little counter to it, so we will be evaluating whether we would like to change this implementation. Thanks to everyone for you feedback and concerns.

Hugh

Thanks for the response.

But the thing is, there is no trap play. Well, none besides Thieves placing them in stealth right in the middle of a zerg.

1) Traps are expensive. 15 badges buys me 15silver worth of siege.

2) They are very inhibitive. The character placing them needs to have 10supply on him, but supply can already be a real pain to come by. And have enough of, especially when you want to attack a well defended tower or keep. Do you really want to throw 10 supply on a trap?

3) They are very easy to counter. Your trap, because its so expensive and supply intensive, has to hit a lot of enemies for it to be worth the investment.
But its so incredibly easy and simple to just have one or two people run ahead of a zerg, and have these people trigger whatever traps are placed. Having a Supply Trap trigger on 1 guy who didnt even have any supply to begin with is a massive waste!
And zergs already had people running ahead of them for the sake of scouting, so it doesnt even change anything.

The reason Thieves are the only one using Traps to great effect is because their numerous Stealth allows them to completely mitigate point #3. They can place Traps in such a way as to maximize their damage, f.e. in the middle of a zerg that just pillaged a supply camp.
But outside of thieves, traps are not worth taking. The chance you actually get a return on your investment is very small.

Is the WvW team aware that many thief skills are dependent on stealth?
For example, our main healing trait is Shadow Protector: “When you stealth an ally, they gain regeneration for 5 seconds.”

Are we going to start having traps that take away a core mechanic of other classes?

Pannonica.5378:

Caedmon.6798:

Caliban.3176:

Fuzzion.2504:

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Terrahero.9358:

Is it working as intented that Traps can be placed while in stealth, without breaking stealth?

And what about placing a trap and then blinking/shadowstepping away, which results in you finishing the trap from a distance?

What about both of those together?
Remote stealth trap placement underneath a zerg?

What about the massive advantage Thieves have in placing traps and using them as an effective tool in WvW compared to other professions because they can place traps in an enemy zerg?

Hi again everyone,

I will say we want there to be play with the traps, but placing the traps while in stealth has very little counter to it, so we will be evaluating whether we would like to change this implementation. Thanks to everyone for you feedback and concerns.

Hugh

Seems a little OP if traps could be placed while in stealth.

could?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv4P-kTBzE0

Also..this is what i was afraid of,I knew it….Anet why the hell are you doing this crap

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

This design was set so players wouldn’t put traps (especially the supply trap) on supply holds. Image if your zerg/small party didn’t have supply and went to restock at supply hold that had a few supply remove traps. As soon as the team has supply BOOM “Trapified” your supply is gone.

Which is exactly what is happening in the video.

I just can’t stop laughing at this.

-“Hey guys, traps are blablabla cause we don’t want those to be so bad, so don’t worry!”
-“Hey Anet, look.”
-“I..uh…ops.”

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Terrahero.9358:

Is it working as intented that Traps can be placed while in stealth, without breaking stealth?

And what about placing a trap and then blinking/shadowstepping away, which results in you finishing the trap from a distance?

What about both of those together?
Remote stealth trap placement underneath a zerg?

What about the massive advantage Thieves have in placing traps and using them as an effective tool in WvW compared to other professions because they can place traps in an enemy zerg?

Hi again everyone,

I will say we want there to be play with the traps, but placing the traps while in stealth has very little counter to it, so we will be evaluating whether we would like to change this implementation. Thanks to everyone for you feedback and concerns.

Hugh

Once again, as with acs, proving you guys are tinkering with stuff that you have no idea about.

AndrewSX.3794:

Pannonica.5378:

Caedmon.6798:

Caliban.3176:

Fuzzion.2504:

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Terrahero.9358:

Is it working as intented that Traps can be placed while in stealth, without breaking stealth?

And what about placing a trap and then blinking/shadowstepping away, which results in you finishing the trap from a distance?

What about both of those together?
Remote stealth trap placement underneath a zerg?

What about the massive advantage Thieves have in placing traps and using them as an effective tool in WvW compared to other professions because they can place traps in an enemy zerg?

Hi again everyone,

I will say we want there to be play with the traps, but placing the traps while in stealth has very little counter to it, so we will be evaluating whether we would like to change this implementation. Thanks to everyone for you feedback and concerns.

Hugh

Seems a little OP if traps could be placed while in stealth.

could?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv4P-kTBzE0

Also..this is what i was afraid of,I knew it….Anet why the hell are you doing this crap

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

This design was set so players wouldn’t put traps (especially the supply trap) on supply holds. Image if your zerg/small party didn’t have supply and went to restock at supply hold that had a few supply remove traps. As soon as the team has supply BOOM “Trapified” your supply is gone.

Which is exactly what is happening in the video.

I just can’t stop laughing at this.

-“Hey guys, traps are blablabla cause we don’t want those to be so bad, so don’t worry!”
-“Hey Anet, look.”
-“I..uh…ops.”

In his defence, I think he meant that traps could not be placed on supply holds on beforehand if they were only to trigger if people had supply.

So if I place a supply trap on a supply hold now. People will walk there (without supply) and trigger the trap, then pick up supply and walk away. This is what ANet wants.

They did not want this scenario:
I place a trap on a supply hold, 10 people (without supply) show up and do not trigger the trap (because in this scenario it would not trigger if you had no supply). They pick up supply and then walk away only to trigger the trap and lose the supply.

I understand their reasoning behind this.

(Defending Anet, doesn’t happen often)

Darkwing.2081:

Is the WvW team aware that many thief skills are dependent on stealth?
For example, our main healing trait is Shadow Protector: “When you stealth an ally, they gain regeneration for 5 seconds.”

Are we going to start having traps that take away a core mechanic of other classes?

Other classes already have counters to their core mechanics. That are far more severe and numerous.

Caliban.3176:

AndrewSX.3794:

Pannonica.5378:

Caedmon.6798:

Caliban.3176:

Fuzzion.2504:

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Terrahero.9358:

Is it working as intented that Traps can be placed while in stealth, without breaking stealth?

And what about placing a trap and then blinking/shadowstepping away, which results in you finishing the trap from a distance?

What about both of those together?
Remote stealth trap placement underneath a zerg?

What about the massive advantage Thieves have in placing traps and using them as an effective tool in WvW compared to other professions because they can place traps in an enemy zerg?

Hi again everyone,

I will say we want there to be play with the traps, but placing the traps while in stealth has very little counter to it, so we will be evaluating whether we would like to change this implementation. Thanks to everyone for you feedback and concerns.

Hugh

Seems a little OP if traps could be placed while in stealth.

could?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv4P-kTBzE0

Also..this is what i was afraid of,I knew it….Anet why the hell are you doing this crap

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

This design was set so players wouldn’t put traps (especially the supply trap) on supply holds. Image if your zerg/small party didn’t have supply and went to restock at supply hold that had a few supply remove traps. As soon as the team has supply BOOM “Trapified” your supply is gone.

Which is exactly what is happening in the video.

I just can’t stop laughing at this.

-“Hey guys, traps are blablabla cause we don’t want those to be so bad, so don’t worry!”
-“Hey Anet, look.”
-“I..uh…ops.”

In his defence, I think he meant that traps could not be placed on supply holds on beforehand if they were only to trigger if people had supply.

So if I place a supply trap on a supply hold now. People will walk there (without supply) and trigger the trap, then pick up supply and walk away. This is what ANet wants.

They did not want this scenario:
I place a trap on a supply hold, 10 people (without supply) show up and do not trigger the trap (because in this scenario it would not trigger if you had no supply). They pick up supply and then walk away only to trigger the trap and lose the supply.

I understand their reasoning behind this.

(Defending Anet, doesn’t happen often)

Except their reasoning failed to incorporate how the same situation could be replicated or even made worse by basic game mechanics.

Arkard.3970:

Except their reasoning failed to incorporate how the same situation could be replicated or even made worse by basic game mechanics.

This is true. Can’t argue with that and wouldn’t want to either.

Reading everything again It seems to be that the anti-supply traps are OP while the anti-invisibility traps are useless.

Anti-invisibility traps are useless because every enemy players will activate them while the supply traps are OP because invisible thiefs will place them.

Second problem is that even if this is fix’t they would be to expensive.

The solution them seems easy. Make them activate only on invisible players (and maybe do the same for players with supply) and don’t be able to set them up while invisible.

But then they are still not very powerful because any scout is able to activate them because of that the cost should go down and it should be able to get them in a similar way as normal blue-prints. This would counter there weakness against scouts.

This however would still not help against alone roaming thiefs that are a frustration for many players because you can’t really fight an invisible player.

The flaw with traps here is there is no middleground. It is either too weak or too strong. If you cannot ensure that multiple people hit the trap, it is not worth the effort. But the only viable way to ensure the trap lands is broken and hinges around 1 class.

I mean im sure people will drop traps here and there infront of a gate after stealth tricks get nerfed, but traps will not really change the way people play wvw except for that 1 guy trying very hard to do something funny.

All in all I think the very premise of the trap mechanic is a flawed one and there is very little anet can do to make it meaningful yet balanced. It is either too weak or too strong, basically a bad concept to begin with. More wasted resources imo

I mean….seriously, where did the idea for traps come from in the first place? why did anet feel a REAL need to invest dev time on a new feature that literally no one has asked for?

and now they will waste even more time trying to fix traps, because of course, anet released a feature that was half baked and apparently wasnt tested at all.

i really hope anet continues to ignore common complaints/issues/requests for months at a time, while releasing other things that no one wants. it makes me want to play their game even more.

BobbyT.7192:

Just take out the trap all together, We were doing just fine without them.

This.

Hickeroar.9734:

BobbyT.7192:

Just take out the trap all together, We were doing just fine without them.

This.

Traps are a mechanic with a lot of potential, they need a lot of work to get there, but taking them out completely is a terrible solution.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Hickeroar.9734:

BobbyT.7192:

Just take out the trap all together, We were doing just fine without them.

This.

Traps are a mechanic with a lot of potential, they need a lot of work to get there, but taking them out completely is a terrible solution.

No, it’s not a terrible solution. It’s the correct one.

Instead of using them logistically or purposefully, enemies are just dropping them randomly on the field in the middle of zerg fights. Or on mining nodes. Or any other number of troll locations.

They are not a mechanic with a lot of potential. They are a troll’s tool, best used in trolling the other team. They need to be removed. They were a pointless addition, only made “safe” for the game by virtue of the fact that they’re expensive.

meep.2601:

why did anet feel a REAL need to invest dev time on a new feature that literally no one has asked for?

Almost everybody asked for more tactics and less zerging and a lot os people have complained about the invisibility by thiefs.

The traps give the option for more tactics and to do something about the invisibility. It might help a little against zerging but not a lot I think.

So basically many people asked for it. The problem is the implementation is not so good and because of the the traps do not give what they should give. But if that got fixed and the traps would be cheaper they will be a good tool. So the traps are not the problem, there implementation is.

BobbyT.7192:

Just take out the trap all together, We were doing just fine without them.

We meaning the thiefs and / or big zergs? But many people like more tactics, less zergs and less invisibility. So they were not doing so fine.

Devata.6589:

meep.2601:

why did anet feel a REAL need to invest dev time on a new feature that literally no one has asked for?

Almost everybody asked for more tactics and less zerging and a lot os people have complained about the invisibility by thiefs.

The traps give the option for more tactics and to do something about the invisibility. It might help a little against zerging but not a lot I think.

So basically many people asked for it. The problem is the implementation is not so good and because of the the traps do not give what they should give. But if that got fixed and the traps would be cheaper they will be a good tool. So the traps are not the problem, there implementation is.

So instead of addressing thieves being “too invisible,” they nerfed mesmers…since they’re really the only ones impacted by the stealth traps.

And instead of making groups smaller, they made them bigger because you need more people to soak up the damage percentage a supply trap can inflict on your supply count.

ANet adding traps had nothing to do with either of those complaints. It’s a bad design decision, plain and simple.

Hickeroar.9734:

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Hickeroar.9734:

BobbyT.7192:

Just take out the trap all together, We were doing just fine without them.

This.

Traps are a mechanic with a lot of potential, they need a lot of work to get there, but taking them out completely is a terrible solution.

No, it’s not a terrible solution. It’s the correct one.

Instead of using them logistically or purposefully, enemies are just dropping them randomly on the field in the middle of zerg fights. Or on mining nodes. Or any other number of troll locations.

All the thinks you name really strengthen Hickeroar point, not yours.
It should not be able to put them into a zerg so thats an implementation error. That would be gone with better implementation. Putting them on mining-nodes does not seem trolling to me but seems to be smart, the enemy has then be so smart to send a scout ahead to trigger them.

So more tactics

Devata.6589:

Hickeroar.9734:

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Hickeroar.9734:

BobbyT.7192:

Just take out the trap all together, We were doing just fine without them.

This.

Traps are a mechanic with a lot of potential, they need a lot of work to get there, but taking them out completely is a terrible solution.

No, it’s not a terrible solution. It’s the correct one.

Instead of using them logistically or purposefully, enemies are just dropping them randomly on the field in the middle of zerg fights. Or on mining nodes. Or any other number of troll locations.

All the thinks you name really strengthen Hickeroar point, not yours.
It should not be able to put them into a zerg so thats an implementation error. That would be gone with better implementation. Putting them on mining-nodes does not seem trolling to me but seems to be smart, the enemy has then be so smart to send a scout ahead to trigger them.

So more tactics

That’s not tactics. That’s having to work around a bad game mechanic. It’s not fun, and doesn’t add -anything- valuable to the game.

Wasting 15 badges and 525 karma + 10 supply to drop a trap on a mining node? That’s a troll move. Zergs, or small groups, do not stack up on mining nodes. Only someone trolling the enemy would do that.

Devata.6589:

meep.2601:

why did anet feel a REAL need to invest dev time on a new feature that literally no one has asked for?

Almost everybody asked for more tactics and less zerging and a lot os people have complained about the invisibility by thiefs.

The traps give the option for more tactics and to do something about the invisibility. It might help a little against zerging but not a lot I think.

So basically many people asked for it. The problem is the implementation is not so good and because of the the traps do not give what they should give. But if that got fixed and the traps would be cheaper they will be a good tool. So the traps are not the problem, there implementation is.

I think the problem is this does nothing for more tactics. It discourages small group play, at least as far as objectives requiring siege go, and adds extremely minimal tactics in other areas.

We want more tactics in the ‘fighting’ and patch after patch, change after change, all we see is more tactics involving siege and crud. What about our skills and abilities, the things that make our characters unique and different.

Just another MMO kittening away their potential by catering to the average.

Traps mean you need a larger Zerg.

You need the larger group of people so that when the trap does go off and you loose 100 supply there are more than enough people who are unaffected so you can build the Trebs to take down the ACs to build the rams to take the gate down. The game has made it so you need 300+ supply to effectively start a siege on a tower or keep. (one superior Treb, enough for a second in case it gets taken down, and an AC to protect against the push out)

When you take into consideration that you now have to assume you will loose 200 supply that means approx. 50 people in your group. That is with resupply runs mid siege.

AC buff means you need a larger Zerg.

Trebs are the only realistic way to take down enough ACs to be able to take your group of 50+ into the tower or keep to take the rest down. (for any one who says it can be done with less…this is a defended tower) Those take quite a bit of supply.

Since Anet has so far failed to properly deal with the zoom hackers you will not be able to get all of the ACs and will need the extra people to be able to rush the remaining AC positions.

This has further pushed the game meta towards a need for a qued map full map zerg. (not including the 2nd accounts that your enemies will have on the map to track your commander tags)

I say this as an observation without judgement.

This has been my observation from a high population server with a lot of WvWvW focused activity. If it is any different on lower population servers please disregard and go back to playing the game differently.

oh…this now happens…

I’m already having a lot of fun with traps. Stealth traps are awesome for screwing with multi veil rushes and supply traps can buy you quite a bit of time if placed near the gates of one of your keeps/towers to prevent ram building. Plugging the holes in the outer walls of SM with supply traps is also pretty fun.

Sure, their function is quite niche at present, but I don’t think Anet wanted them to be game changers but simply a way to add an additional flavour to WvW for those of us who like new things. We’re having good fun experimenting with them on my server.

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Hickeroar.9734:

BobbyT.7192:

Just take out the trap all together, We were doing just fine without them.

This.

Traps are a mechanic with a lot of potential, they need a lot of work to get there, but taking them out completely is a terrible solution.

At this point taking out Traps is a very good move for WvW. Traps are just, simply broken.
The use of Traps is completely pointless. They are far to expensive with such a small chance of seeing it inflict meaningful damage. The only way for Traps, specifically Supply Trap because the Reveal Trap is just useless, to be usefull is if you can get them to go off right in the middle of the enemy zerg. And only Thieves can manage that.

So you have a tool that to everyone, except Thieves, is not worth the investment of 15badges and 10 supply, because a simple scout that any reasonable zerg sends ahead will either see you place it, or accidentally trigger it. Meaning you wasted 10supply and 15 badges to give 1 person 30sec revealed, or take 5 supply if he even had any at all.

And then there are Thieves, who can make these go off consistently inside enemy zergs, and suddenly Traps are rediculously good. There is so much wrong with Traps and its more then obvious that this is a work in progress thats in a very infant stage. So scraping it and comming back to it when they work better, are more balanced and the system is more fleshed out is not a bad idea at all.

Terrahero.9358:

EnemyCrusher.7324:

Hickeroar.9734:

BobbyT.7192:

Just take out the trap all together, We were doing just fine without them.

This.

Traps are a mechanic with a lot of potential, they need a lot of work to get there, but taking them out completely is a terrible solution.

At this point taking out Traps is a very good move for WvW. Traps are just, simply broken.
The use of Traps is completely pointless. They are far to expensive with such a small chance of seeing it inflict meaningful damage. The only way for Traps, specifically Supply Trap because the Reveal Trap is just useless, to be usefull is if you can get them to go off right in the middle of the enemy zerg. And only Thieves can manage that.

So you have a tool that to everyone, except Thieves, is not worth the investment of 15badges and 10 supply, because a simple scout that any reasonable zerg sends ahead will either see you place it, or accidentally trigger it. Meaning you wasted 10supply and 15 badges to give 1 person 30sec revealed, or take 5 supply if he even had any at all.

And then there are Thieves, who can make these go off consistently inside enemy zergs, and suddenly Traps are rediculously good. There is so much wrong with Traps and its more then obvious that this is a work in progress thats in a very infant stage. So scraping it and comming back to it when they work better, are more balanced and the system is more fleshed out is not a bad idea at all.

They scapped Orbs for the same reason. They really need to go back to the drawing board on these.

Arkanfel.8403:

Few things are quite so savory to me as thief tears.

There’s finally a hard counter to stealth and now they are going to lose their kitten. Oh, your core gameplay mechanic has a counter now? How bad that must feel. I main guardian—my core gameplay mechanic is boons and I have a low health pool. You know what counters my core gameplay? Boon stripping and conditions.

So welcome to the club of the rest of us. We meet in the gym after AA on Wednesdays. Bring donuts and paper plates.

Stupid idea, badly implemented and probably barely tested. If at all.

As a poster above me states – orbs were removed for less issues than this.

Just remove them.

TacoJoe.6083:

Traps mean you need a larger Zerg.

You need the larger group of people so that when the trap does go off and you loose 100 supply there are more than enough people who are unaffected so you can build the Trebs to take down the ACs to build the rams to take the gate down. The game has made it so you need 300+ supply to effectively start a siege on a tower or keep. (one superior Treb, enough for a second in case it gets taken down, and an AC to protect against the push out)

When you take into consideration that you now have to assume you will loose 200 supply that means approx. 50 people in your group. That is with resupply runs mid siege.

AC buff means you need a larger Zerg.

Spot on, this was immediately obvious as the effect. As always anet do not think of the wider implications. The AC changes the traps both work to make zerging even more prevalent.

Lemme see here …

ANet implemented something that they didn’t fully test, clearly didn’t understand, wasn’t asked for, and generates more angst than it addresses.

I’m totally shocked. Who would have ever expected this?? This is so out of character for them.

Anet never test nothing, PLEASE make a test server before putting something in the game.

Anti stealth trap is good to stop portal bomb. But it’s not really useful against thiefs. Why? 1 shadow step and i’m out of the trap range, gg. AND it costs 15 badges, anyone using it to kill a thief is true moron.

Anet needs to implement a dismissing mechanic in stealth.

Something along the lines: “A condition that last 10 secs and cut new stealth timers in half.”

So you stealth once you get 3/4 secs if you stealth with this condition you get 1,5/2. if you stealth again you win 0,75/1.

The condition should stack in power and every new stack refresh the timer of the last.

This will bring the thief’s survivability back in line. Since we (i main thief.) will be losing “a lot” of our surviability. we would probably need a buff against more tanky builds.

That’s how you “fix” thiefs. Not by placing a, useless, trap or by nerfing our damage to the ground.

Divinorium.8952:

So you stealth once you get 3/4 secs if you stealth with this condition you get 1,5/2. if you stealth again you win 0,75/1.

That’s how you “fix” thiefs. Not by placing a, useless, trap or by nerfing our damage to the ground.

Sure I’ll take that, if Shadow Refuge gives me all the time in stealth right away. And they take Last Refuge out of the game completely.

Cactus.2710:

ANet implemented something that they didn’t fully test, clearly didn’t understand, wasn’t asked for, and generates more angst than it addresses.

People have been asking for traps, barricades, more siege options, for ages. Stop bullkittenting to try and fill in your usual daydreams. The rest of your points are fine but don’t make kitten up.

Ntranced.7415:

As a poster above me states – orbs were removed for less issues than this.

They removed Orbs for a far, far better reason than they’d remove this. No one enjoyed hours upon hours of work in claiming an orb overturned because some kitten hacked. Most of us can live with kittenty thieves trying to gank our supply.

Khandarus.2738:

Divinorium.8952:

So you stealth once you get 3/4 secs if you stealth with this condition you get 1,5/2. if you stealth again you win 0,75/1.

That’s how you “fix” thiefs. Not by placing a, useless, trap or by nerfing our damage to the ground.

Sure I’ll take that, if Shadow Refuge gives me all the time in stealth right away. And they take Last Refuge out of the game completely.
It’s not up to me to decide that.

Make Last refuge doesn’t be affected by this condition.
And this change is EXACTLY to limit the amount of time a thief can be stealthed why give 12/16 secs of stealth like it’s nothing is a good idea for you? Maybe a change to give 5/6 secs of isntantly stealth while having a longe CD is fine, but instant 12/16 secs is just trolling.

Edit :Just rephrasing.

PS: I think changing Last Refugee for something more usefull would be better too =p