Guild Wars 2

Hickeroar.9734:

McNuggetBandit.8376:

This is gonna eff over EB the most i fell, all its going to do is force the fights into stonemist more leading to ever more huge skill lag, as who ever controls SM can treb most of the towers on the map, not to metion that OL is the only keep able to treb SM. If this is the case the way trebs work or their siege placement needs to be changed

OL needs to be able to treb SM. OL is the hardest to defend keep on the map, and any help they can get is better. If they balance up that map so OL/Anz/Mends aren’t horrible, then I can see getting rid of the ability to treb SM. Besides, the treb positions are easy to counter…

Not going to go into the points of defending towers as this is more a offensive thing, being able to counter is fine i know it can be done do it numerous times myself, However its the fact that now all we will be doing is sitting there and putting up counter trebn after counter treb so we don’t lose SM otherwise we will lose all our towers as we need to then try and counter treb SM get back there and then start counter trebing OL. It just puts even more priority onto an annoying aspect. If towers and keeps were further apart and there was no way to treb from inside your own tower i would be fine and dandy with this but as it is now its going to be a litten piece of kitten

This will actually allow skeleton crews to defend their keep with their siege against zergs, otherwise zergs can just stand back treb EVERYTHING down, and even if the skeleton crew is defending with their seige it doesn’t matter because they just protect their seige with swirlies making the zerg have to put much of any effort at all into taking a keep.

Coldviper.6794:

This will actually allow skeleton crews to defend their keep with their siege against zergs, otherwise zergs can just stand back treb EVERYTHING down, and even if the skeleton crew is defending with their seige it doesn’t matter because they just protect their seige with swirlies making the zerg have to put much of any effort at all into taking a keep.

It would atually befenit the zerg over a skeleton crew defending, sure you can counter then siege now with your catas or treb but so can they, and they have more numbers which means more supply to put up more siege. All a smart zerg would do is spread out their siege by the time you take down one treb and try to turn to take the next all the siege in your tower will be dead

Unfortunately it seems too much effort was put into seeing if they could make this change and not enough into whether they should make this change. It seems to be a lost art, being able to follow the ripples out from a change far enough to see the full impacts that change will have. I can see someone thinking that it’ll be wonderful because it’ll speed up WvW some yet never taking the time to fully consider the impacts at the personal level. Even little things. Seriously, is there any reason (if cats are also included) for an ele to ever carry a focus anymore? This effectively removes the viability of an offhand weapon for elementalists altogether. Larger scale, the effects people are mentioning about being able to defend against nearly unassailable positions takes a major kick. You lose significant tactics in WvW when you can no longer have a few defend a location long enough for a push elsewhere. Now people will have their actions more dictated by who has the trebs up than ever before.

Taking away defenses will remove the fun because peoples actions will be more dictated by those of others instead of themselves. Someone like myself, who’s comfortable settling in a spot and defending have a whole means of defense gone, which will force others to have to make up the difference and pull them from other objectives. I feel Trahearne got this one right… “This won’t end well.”.

So it seems that the best way to defend against counter Trebs is to spread out your trebs and catapults instead of clumping them together!

Talmor.9048:

So it seems that the best way to defend against counter Trebs is to spread out your trebs and catapults instead of clumping them together!

problem is as a defender in towers there are only a few places you can place trebs so they are usefully and so they can’t be hit from group attackers with AC’s or balis etc so they tend to get quite clumped

Suizen.5614:

So in the SToG it was said that treb shots are going to no longer be blocked by Sanc/SW ect. I will cut right to the chase, this being removed is terrible for the game. Why? because it takes away counterplay in WvW and makes it harder to defend/attack certain objectives in the game.

It also makes it impossible to defend against the exploit trebs used at Borderland Garrisons, and only possible to go and wipe them out which is very diffcult to accomplish.

I would like the reasoning behind why counterplay like this would be taken away, thank you.

This is a good thing imo.No more waiting around and trying to swirl shots.Now you need to go out and make an actual wipe,i like it.

McNuggetBandit.8376:

It would atually befenit the zerg over a skeleton crew defending, sure you can counter then siege now with your catas or treb but so can they, and they have more numbers which means more supply to put up more siege. All a smart zerg would do is spread out their siege by the time you take down one treb and try to turn to take the next all the siege in your tower will be dead

A skeleton crew will not have swirls, a zerg will. At least now they have a chance to deal some dmg to the enemy siege.

Currently, a 30 man zerg with 300 supply can build 6 catapults , swirl them with 4 eles and ignore the 1-2 defense trebs/mortars inside the fort. A small team defending has zero chance and the fortified wall will be down in 3 minutes.

With the change, the zerg is forced to firstly build treb to take out the defense siege, even with spike building the defending trebs will get the first hits in and probably kill 2 of the 3 trebs and dmg the 3rd before they lose theirs.

This leaves the enemy zerg with a half a treb at a cost of 300 supply. This is now a far less potent attack compared to 6 catas. They have to send runners to resupply, meanwhile defenders can spike build more trebs using their stockpile and repeat the process untill the tower or keep runs out.

What used to be a 3 minute catapult roflstomp of a keep wall is now turned into a far longer battle of attrition, costing the attackers 600 + supply before they can fully suppress a small team of defenders in a sieged up fort.

Lifewaster.5912:

A skeleton crew will not have swirls, a zerg will. At least now they have a chance to deal some dmg to the enemy siege.

Currently, a 30 man zerg with 300 supply can build 6 catapults , swirl them with 4 eles and ignore the 1-2 defense trebs/mortars inside the fort. A small team defending has zero chance and the fortified wall will be down in 3 minutes.

With the change, the zerg is forced to firstly build treb to take out the defense siege, even with spike building the defending trebs will get the first hits in and probably kill 2 of the 3 trebs and dmg the 3rd before they lose theirs.

This leaves the enemy zerg with a half a treb at a cost of 300 supply. This is now a far less potent attack compared to 6 catas. They have to send runners to resupply, meanwhile defenders can spike build more trebs using their stockpile and repeat the process untill the tower or keep runs out.

What used to be a 3 minute catapult roflstomp of a keep wall is now turned into a far longer battle of attrition, costing the attackers 600 + supply before they can fully suppress a small team of defenders in a sieged up fort.

Of course, reality shows this won’t be the case. A zerg can spike build a treb and be firing faster than any defenses in the tower can get to most treb locations. Once they’re zoned in it’s nearly impossible to stay on the treb long enough to counter fire (knockbacks do that to you). The zerg will have impunity.

which is no different from before really.

well actually it is, ive been able to zero trebs in on build locations faster by rotating the treb before the enemy starts building.

Mortars also turn quickly – if they wernt taken out.

Lifewaster.5912:

McNuggetBandit.8376:

It would atually befenit the zerg over a skeleton crew defending, sure you can counter then siege now with your catas or treb but so can they, and they have more numbers which means more supply to put up more siege. All a smart zerg would do is spread out their siege by the time you take down one treb and try to turn to take the next all the siege in your tower will be dead

A skeleton crew will not have swirls, a zerg will. At least now they have a chance to deal some dmg to the enemy siege.

Currently, a 30 man zerg with 300 supply can build 6 catapults , swirl them with 4 eles and ignore the 1-2 defense trebs/mortars inside the fort. A small team defending has zero chance and the fortified wall will be down in 3 minutes.

With the change, the zerg is forced to firstly build treb to take out the defense siege, even with spike building the defending trebs will get the first hits in and probably kill 2 of the 3 trebs and dmg the 3rd before they lose theirs.

This leaves the enemy zerg with a half a treb at a cost of 300 supply. This is now a far less potent attack compared to 6 catas. They have to send runners to resupply, meanwhile defenders can spike build more trebs using their stockpile and repeat the process untill the tower or keep runs out.

What used to be a 3 minute catapult roflstomp of a keep wall is now turned into a far longer battle of attrition, costing the attackers 600 + supply before they can fully suppress a small team of defenders in a sieged up fort.

The thing is catas arn’t the big issue with this all that zerg will do now is spread those catas out so you cna only hit one at a time, cool you killed one now they just do it with 5.

What the big problem most peopel are annoyed with is the effect on trebs. I mostly play EB and currently from SM you can treb ANZ,Durios,WC and klovan and if your smart OL, and those can treb back respectivly. What used to happen is people woulnd’t worry to much about SM trebs right away as an ele can stop 90% of those shots buying you more time. However now that you can’t block those you need to counter those trebs. Getting up a counter treb in a tower to hit SM is hard if they are already zeroed in as there arn’t many places you can drop it to build them giving them the upper hand already. What it will force people in EB into doing is fighting constantly over SM, all it will do is promote zergs to rush in there take the tower and hold it for dear life and put trebs up to hit every tower. by doing that you can take down walls on 3-4 towers at a time all you need to do is send a small group to each one and you will take atleast 1 of those towers each time the walls go down.

The other big issue that will cause is your now going to have all 3 servers 100man zergs in SM more often leading to constant skill lag across all the maps.