Guild Wars 2

…most servers are already in ‘fair fights’ and the couple that aren’t will probably be by next week (definitely by the week after) if the previous ratings are kept?

I know this is asking alot, but could one of the devs explain?

I was alright with the reset before because I thought that the ratings between each rank would incrementally decrease (i.e. 1st 2000, 2nd 1950, 3rd 1900, 4th 1850, etc) so that servers could move without the big rating gaps between tiers but this is crazy.

It doesn’t make sense. Do you really just want the servers with the biggest wins to be in tier 1 next week?

because the euro matchups are completely kittened up. they should have just reset the euro ranks.

No EU matches were mostly settled before the reset as well. The empty servers would have reached the lowest brackets end of this or next week as well without reset. But if the reset continues as millenium.org currently computes everything will be messed up next week in EU as well.

wads.5730:

because the euro matchups are completely kittened up. they should have just reset the euro ranks.

Yeah I saw that but I think the incremental ratings would still help fix the EU ladder without completely destroying the NA one.

All of the EU tiers would of balanced themselves quicker without the rating reset, next week will have some weird matchups.

Theres still a whole week to go, but as of now, Ruins of Surmia is 1st place in tier1 for next week… lol… From lowest to highest tier in just a few hours :P

Centrix.4065:

Theres still a whole week to go, but as of now, Ruins of Surmia is 1st place in tier1 for next week… lol… From lowest to highest tier in just a few hours :P

In before Ilesyt!

deso is set to drop 21 places o.O

Please guys, remember that the current match up ratings on mos, does NOT account for the new way of calculating it.
So it might not be as messed up by the end of he week as you think.

There is no new way of calculation..is only a reset to 1500 as http://mos.millenium.org/matchups shows. So its seems to be correct.
So Whiteside Ridge and Ruins of Surmia will be the top 2 servers on the new ranklist cause they are fighting against 2-2 “wvw empty” servers, so they will get the highest +rating now. But after then for a couple of weeks they will get “the old top servers” as enemies..so slowly they will go back to their old tier7-8. But till that they will lose more wvw players because of the hopeless fights against much more wvw populated servers.

Seriously this is not fair. We were in tier 9 on 9, yes 9. And according to millenium.org, we’ll be pushed to tier 1, gaining 23 places! How is it possible for us to compete in tier 1? First week will be good. Challenging, but good, but after that all the servers will start to come to higher levels and we’ll go down to our normal tier (between 7 and 9) in a matter of 4-5 weeks. So during that time we’ll get steamrolled every single week.

And higher servers? Well they’ll get to steamroll every week until they reach their normal rankings.

To counter that, we do all that we can to avoid pugs taking towers. The “big” guilds of WSR will not even go on the enemies’ borderlands to ensure we don’t get too many points… That’s not fun.

No, this decision was a really poor call as the servers were already adjusting themselves: we only need to look at Gunnar’s Hold and Ruins of Surmia, as well as Blacktide.

Kozzy.5974:

There is no new way of calculation..is only a reset to 1500 as http://mos.millenium.org/matchups shows. So its seems to be correct.
So Whiteside Ridge and Ruins of Surmia will be the top 2 servers on the new ranklist cause they are fighting against 2-2 “wvw empty” servers, so they will get the highest +rating now. But after then for a couple of weeks they will get “the old top servers” as enemies..so slowly they will go back to their old tier7-8. But till that they will lose more wvw players because of the hopeless fights against much more wvw populated servers.

Yes there will be a new way of calculating. They are adding/fixing/modifying something, which is anotehr reason for why they decided to reset it as well.

As you can read on mos:

They are also revising the math behind the ratings formula but these changes are not yet known (source).

Official post :
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Coming-Soon-WvW-Rating-Reset/first#post1313585

In the run up to the end of free world transfers we saw large population changes as people settled in to their home servers. This means that the WvW teams being fielded by many of the worlds are now dramatically different. In recognition of this fact, and in light of the increased population stability that comes with paid transfers, we feel that this would be a good time to reset the ratings of all the servers. A reset at this point will allow the rating & ranking system to more quickly and correctly rate these (effectively) new WvW teams.

Here’s how the reset will work:

1) We’ll let the current matchup play out. Since free transfers were available during the first part of this matchup we don’t want it to count towards the new ratings.
2) When the matchup rolls over on Friday, February 1st we’ll post the final ratings & rankings. The new ordering will determine the groupings for the next matchup as usual.
3) After the new matchup has started on February 1st we’ll reset all the ratings (and deviation & volatility) behind the scenes.

Because every world will have reset ratings the system will treat the February 1st matchup as the first matchup and will calculate the ratings accordingly. The new ratings will then be calculated normally in the way that you’re already familiar with. We expect several weeks of volatility while the ratings settle down but we believe that it will ultimately yield a more correct result more quickly than letting the current ratings persist. That also means that the coming month or two will be a fantastic time to fight for your world’s place in the rankings!

Additionally, we’re taking advantage of the reset to revisit some of the math behind the ratings. I’ll have more to post on that once we’ve crunched some numbers and made some decisions.
—————————————————————————————————————-
So the reset is mainly because of the large population changes.
“The new ratings will then be calculated normally in the way that you’re already familiar with. "
And so on..so read this post please..

Hm..just read that post you linked. So..may will be a new formula with a “fine tunning”..but mainly it will stay the old, so it wont help anything in that problem what i described before..there will be a couple of weeks till all the servers find thier place in the ranklist.

Centrix.4065:

Theres still a whole week to go, but as of now, Ruins of Surmia is 1st place in tier1 for next week… lol… From lowest to highest tier in just a few hours :P

i’d rather wanted to have tier 1 as a long term goal for surmia i mean we got the manpower , since half of the wvw guilds moved from blacktide to surmia , so for 80% surmia is all wvw

maloki.3527:

Please guys, remember that the current match up ratings on mos, does NOT account for the new way of calculating it.
So it might not be as messed up by the end of he week as you think.

A new way of calculating rankings is not likely to have much if any effect on the matchups for next week because everyone is starting from square 1. Whichever server wins by the largest margins this week will end up #1 next week, it is as simple as that. It doesn’t mater if that means gaining 10 ranking points or 1000 ranking points. In subsequent weeks, when servers actually have different amounts of ranking points, it will make a difference.

All i can say is that NA matchs had a lot of deadmeat in middle tiers while the last two tier were too balanced to start moving up. That’s sending those servers right to the bottom, and the top will adjust gradually…

Why don’t you enjoy some new adversaries? Or maybe you think your server isn’t strong enough to make it again to the top?

Jeknar,

I enjoy very much new adversaries. I however despise the fact that they are not of our level and that we’ll get steamrolled for a few weeks for no reason.

We’re currently holding ourselves to roll less over FoW and Vabbi. Yesterday, 20 members of our guild were in the EB JP and we saw and knew FoW were taking SM with 10 people. While we should have destroyed them to keep it, we gracefully gave it to them because it’s our best interest in the long term to lose 100 points per hour to not go in the tier 1 or 2 like the current estimations show (see mos.millenium.org).

T1 North America is extremely close and balanced this week.

I’m just happy not to have to deal with vizunah for at least a week!

Hopefully ANet increases the sensitivity of the matchup score results without resetting the actual point totals. Because a JQ/SOS/SOR moving to tier 6 is going to be disaster for whatever servers get matched with them, but it would be nice if Kaineg or other similar servers bumped up a tier or two quickly (rather than taking 5 weeks).

Jeknar.6184:

All i can say is that NA matchs had a lot of deadmeat in middle tiers while the last two tier were too balanced to start moving up. That’s sending those servers right to the bottom, and the top will adjust gradually…

if they’re balanced, then they don’t need to move up, they’re already where they belong.

maloki.3527:

Kozzy.5974:

There is no new way of calculation..is only a reset to 1500 as http://mos.millenium.org/matchups shows. So its seems to be correct.
So Whiteside Ridge and Ruins of Surmia will be the top 2 servers on the new ranklist cause they are fighting against 2-2 “wvw empty” servers, so they will get the highest +rating now. But after then for a couple of weeks they will get “the old top servers” as enemies..so slowly they will go back to their old tier7-8. But till that they will lose more wvw players because of the hopeless fights against much more wvw populated servers.

Yes there will be a new way of calculating. They are adding/fixing/modifying something, which is anotehr reason for why they decided to reset it as well.

As you can read on mos:

They are also revising the math behind the ratings formula but these changes are not yet known (source).

Changing the factors in a formula that was never intended to be used in a competition with tiers isn’t going to change the fact that it was a flawed choice for WvW in the first place. You can change the gear ratio in a car all you want and it still won’t plow a field.

Case in point about T1 being about as close at you can be. As of the last posted score update.

85362
82842
76257

9,105 points separating first from third. Why ruin match-ups like that?

Not the case with T8 though. SF is far too strong for ET and FC, but the next server above us has rating of about 400 higher than us.

Selfishly, I’m glad for the reset, or I fear we may be facing ET and FC for a long time.

Pity that nobody at arena-net able to see the upcoming disaster. Months of “volatility” is going to cause grief all around. Volatility is arena-net code for huge mismatches. The servers with coverage will get bored and those lower tier servers without coverage are truly gonna be discouraged by having to go through weeks of unnecessary mismatch. I mean morale is gonna take a hit.

Should be a less disruptive approach / duration to do this.

Kinda shame, this week we have a really close match in tier 1 that is balanced.

Gisei.5749:

Not the case with T8 though. SF is far too strong for ET and FC, but the next server above us has rating of about 400 higher than us.

Selfishly, I’m glad for the reset, or I fear we may be facing ET and FC for a long time.

You ok with being stuck fighting some of the current T1 and T2 servers for the next month instead?

covenn.7165:

Gisei.5749:

Not the case with T8 though. SF is far too strong for ET and FC, but the next server above us has rating of about 400 higher than us.

Selfishly, I’m glad for the reset, or I fear we may be facing ET and FC for a long time.

You ok with being stuck fighting some of the current T1 and T2 servers for the next month instead?

Do you even understand the rankings? BECAUSE the ranking system just had a fresh restart and there’s high volitility, SF will shoot straight down after Kaineng destroys them in a similar way that they’re destroying the other 2 servers in T8 currently. I predict it will take AT MOST 3 weeks to have mostly balanced matchup, followed by completely balanced match ups in the next 2 weeks for the remainder of GW’s lifespan. Not to mention that the rating system needed adjustments. This reset was so freaking needed for so many tiers yet all you can complain about is 2 weeks of discomfort and just shrugging it off when my server and ET have had several months (actually, since launch) of unbalanced matchups because of the old ratings.

Darek.1836:

covenn.7165:

Gisei.5749:

Not the case with T8 though. SF is far too strong for ET and FC, but the next server above us has rating of about 400 higher than us.

Selfishly, I’m glad for the reset, or I fear we may be facing ET and FC for a long time.

You ok with being stuck fighting some of the current T1 and T2 servers for the next month instead?

Do you even understand the rankings? BECAUSE the ranking system just had a fresh restart and there’s high volitility, SF will shoot straight down after Kaineng destroys them in a similar way that they’re destroying the other 2 servers in T8 currently. I predict it will take AT MOST 3 weeks to have mostly balanced matchup, followed by completely balanced match ups in the next 2 weeks for the remainder of GW’s lifespan. Not to mention that the rating system needed adjustments. This reset was so freaking needed for so many tiers yet all you can complain about is 2 weeks of discomfort and just shrugging it off when my server and ET have had several months (actually, since launch) of unbalanced matchups because of the old ratings.

Do you understand the rankings? Isn’t it all speculation at this point or did ANET release some actual concrete information on what is going to happen somewhere other than this site?

covenn.7165:

Gisei.5749:

Not the case with T8 though. SF is far too strong for ET and FC, but the next server above us has rating of about 400 higher than us.

Selfishly, I’m glad for the reset, or I fear we may be facing ET and FC for a long time.

You ok with being stuck fighting some of the current T1 and T2 servers for the next month instead?

Absolutely.

This week, we’re nearly tripling second place in points. It isn’t fun. At one point we pushed FC to 0+, then switched over to ET and pushed them nearly all the way down as well.

I’ve been with SF since September, and we have had several matches where we would be less than 50+ the entire week. It was a lot more fun than domination.

Though I do enjoy our fights with ET quite a bit. They are really good at bunkering down and holding against 3-4x their numbers. FC though, has declined every week for passed few weeks, and barely put up a fight now.

covenn.7165:

Do you understand the rankings? Isn’t it all speculation at this point or did ANET release some actual concrete information on what is going to happen somewhere other than this site?

They have not, which is leading to all this speculation. However, they said they were making small tweaks to the formula and are expecting weeks of volatility.

Some are hoping this means that a quick period of reversion to stable balanced match ups. The other side is reading that as millenium is probably pretty close to the new formula (i.e. using the old one) and they don’t see stable balanced match ups for 4-5 weeks.

Gisei.5749:

Absolutely.

This week, we’re nearly tripling second place in points. It isn’t fun. At one point we pushed FC to 0+, then switched over to ET and pushed them nearly all the way down as well.

I’ve been with SF since September, and we have had several matches where we would be less than 50+ the entire week. It was a lot more fun than domination.

Though I do enjoy our fights with ET quite a bit. They are really good at bunkering down and holding against 3-4x their numbers. FC though, has declined every week for passed few weeks, and barely put up a fight now.

Look at it from the other side then. Are you ready to go 4-5 weeks of getting steamrolled by servers with enough coverage to never let you leave your spawn?

It will be more like 2 weeks.

It will be more like two weeks if they ‘seed’ the rankings some, but only if they do that and do it effectively.

Darek.1836:

It will be more like 2 weeks.

There’s nothing in the post that indicates it will be “more like 2 weeks”. Run the math out on millenium a few weeks and see.

“We expect several weeks of volatility while the ratings settle down but we believe that it will ultimately yield a more correct result more quickly than letting the current ratings persist.”

Based on the matches at game launch, before large groups started transferring, it was a lot more than 2 weeks.

You guyz to remember though that since all of our ratings are reset… our ratings next week will still be fairly close with the biggest gap atm being Kaineng and Eradon Terrace at 294…. with Blackgate next week making what should be an easy push in Tier 1 to join Kaineng .. the top servers in coverage / population should make it into T1 / T2 fairly quickly (SoS, JQ, BG, KN, and SoR) and on the other side T7/T8 should be pushed quickly back into their slots with Servers with better coverage / population push them down the ratings ladder much quicker… The only servers on the NA side that are going to see quite a few weeks before were settled in is T3- T6 as i believe both Tarnished Coast and Fort Aspenwood will compete for T2 moving around the T3 servers from holding on whoever that may be… Math wise the top 2 and bottom 2 tiers should see competitive matches within 3 weeks … depending on the math… whereas the rest will have to find their places… European side could take you guyz much longer then NA as you guyz have more tiers then us… but as long as our ratings stay closer then what they were last season… we should see servers easily able to move up and down… The math needs to be fixed in T8 as Servers that dominate have to wait so long just to move up into T7 ex… Devona’s Rest and Kaineng… Just my 2 cents..

^

This means ANet needed to increase the sensitivity of “wins” and points to boosting rankings (so Kaineg et all could hop up more quickly), not reset everyone to 1500. The last thing anyone wants is to play even a day of JQ versus Yak’s Bend or Ehmry Bay or some other random server.

nalenb.1425:

Gisei.5749:

Absolutely.

This week, we’re nearly tripling second place in points. It isn’t fun. At one point we pushed FC to 0+, then switched over to ET and pushed them nearly all the way down as well.

I’ve been with SF since September, and we have had several matches where we would be less than 50+ the entire week. It was a lot more fun than domination.

Though I do enjoy our fights with ET quite a bit. They are really good at bunkering down and holding against 3-4x their numbers. FC though, has declined every week for passed few weeks, and barely put up a fight now.

Look at it from the other side then. Are you ready to go 4-5 weeks of getting steamrolled by servers with enough coverage to never let you leave your spawn?

I just answered that.

Absolutely.

Being steam rolled, to me, is more fun than steam rolling.

Gisei.5749:

I just answered that.

Absolutely.

Being steam rolled, to me, is more fun than steam rolling.

As the steamroller you are in control, i.e. you can back off and allow the other servers to claim objectives, you can assess numbers and attack with only equal numbers, etc. If you are being steamrolled, you won’t be allowed to leave your spawn if the other server doesn’t want you to. I fail to see how that is more fun, but everyone is different.

nalenb.1425:

Gisei.5749:

I just answered that.

Absolutely.

Being steam rolled, to me, is more fun than steam rolling.

As the steamroller you are in control, i.e. you can back off and allow the other servers to claim objectives, you can assess numbers and attack with only equal numbers, etc. If you are being steamrolled, you won’t be allowed to leave your spawn if the other server doesn’t want you to. I fail to see how that is more fun, but everyone is different.

Steamrollers don’t think about letting the enemy come out so they can have fun… I’ve seen deserted fields during the times when my server was steamrolling everyone. However if you’re being steamrolled, you can start think in a way to breakout, even if it’s only for a few moments, to get a fight.

Jeknar.6184:

nalenb.1425:

Gisei.5749:

I just answered that.

Absolutely.

Being steam rolled, to me, is more fun than steam rolling.

As the steamroller you are in control, i.e. you can back off and allow the other servers to claim objectives, you can assess numbers and attack with only equal numbers, etc. If you are being steamrolled, you won’t be allowed to leave your spawn if the other server doesn’t want you to. I fail to see how that is more fun, but everyone is different.

Steamrollers don’t think about letting the enemy come out so they can have fun… I’ve seen deserted fields during the times when my server was steamrolling everyone. However if you’re being steamrolled, you can start think in a way to breakout, even if it’s only for a few moments, to get a fight.

Good point.

wads.5730:

because the euro matchups are completely kittened up. they should have just reset the euro ranks.

You don’t really know much about the EU tiers do you? The only servers that are less than 1 tier off their proper one at the moment is Ruins of Surmia and Arborstone. And at this rate Arborstone would be there in just a week or maybe two. The problem this whole time has been the NA tiers and how the amount of rating points you need to go up a tier has been unreasonable. When a few servers died in the first few weeks of the game that left too many points at the top, and ever since there has been too big of a margin between the tiers for servers to move up and down without a shutout. With the recent crash of Stormbluff Isle and Isle of Janthir though this is getting better, so if anything this is the worst timing for a rating reset.

nah, the current reset is OK. it is just that people who think that they should be in the high tier can’t wait for the match ups to settle down in about a month…

new adversary is good…..

Ok i know how to solve this one.

Lets have a WvW royal rumble all severs on an open map last sever standing gains the number 1 spot.

nalenb.1425:

Gisei.5749:

I just answered that.

Absolutely.

Being steam rolled, to me, is more fun than steam rolling.

As the steamroller you are in control, i.e. you can back off and allow the other servers to claim objectives, you can assess numbers and attack with only equal numbers, etc. If you are being steamrolled, you won’t be allowed to leave your spawn if the other server doesn’t want you to. I fail to see how that is more fun, but everyone is different.

Actually, I have absolutely no control. I can personally back off, but what will make the other 30 players back off? After I back off, I’m going to have nothing to do, at all, but leave WvW. How the heck am I suppose to get exactly 15 players to engage the enemy, while the other 15 just watch? Both those examples are unrealistic.

As for being camped, there is literately “Nothing” the enemy could do that would restrict me to spawn. If I want to leave spawn, I will leave spawn. Getting passed them would be too easy. Then my guild would go take a camp, fortify it, and prepare for fun.

I don’t see how anyone with at least average comprehension skills can look at the current matchups versus next week’s predicted matchups, and think this is an improvement in any way. It’s not going to ever get much better than it is right now, and resetting it is just going to ruin that balance for another 1-2 months. The #1 server next week is this week’s #22. Moving from the last tier to the top of the rankings is going to be a nightmare for Sorrow’s Furnace. SF, along with Ehmry Bay, gets to have a week of getting destroyed by Kaineng. Then they get to look forward to weeks of facing the other 20 servers that belong in higher tiers as they fall back down to T7-8.

My server, Yak’s Bend, has been dealing with Dragonbrand and Maguuma since late December, as they bounced around in tiers, and had one week against Kaineng. These 3 bandwagon servers are now above us, with a chance that one of them might get pushed down to face us from time to time. With the reset, we have to run that guantlet again, as well as having to face other current T1-3 servers. The last month hurt morale quite a bit for us, but this week has been a great(and fairly balanced) matchup. I don’t want to think about what another month of horrible mismatches is going to cause.

I’m the last person to jump on the myriad of gemstore conspiricy theories, but there has to be some motivation outside of actually helping the wvw tier balance. Are they trying to see how many people will pay to leave their server when they completely ruin the wvw matchups?

No server is gaining,dropping or jumping any ranks.It is a RESET wich means all server are equal this week and not ranked anymore(this week)

… They want people to spread out over all servers..
They hoping large alliances from high tiers moving to low tier, without having to spend months to get back to high tier rankings.
They will penalise high ranking tiers more and more untill they spread out..

I agree with anet that population balance should spread more.. no servers who can bring out large armies 24/7 . A more balanced ranking. I just dont like the way they are forcing players.. with smaller caps on borders.

Too many of you folks are looking at the short term. You look at what next week’s match up will be, and maybe the week after that but are not thinking of a month+ from now. All the servers that belong in segregated higher tiers will end up their quickly and inevitably regardless with an outdated rating from a dead GW2 era out of the way. I can only speak for Ferguson’s in this, but with the crappy old rating with an artificial number generated from constant weeks of fighting servers who’s populations spontaneously grew to high-tier levels from mass transfers, we would of had to deal with Sorrow’s Furnace (who is probably on about tier 6 level and maybe 5 if they take their strategy up a notch) for literally 8 weeks+ which I believe is assuming they blew out completely, which they don’t when we and ET maintain our presence in WvW. This is after a month of fighting mega Kain, and many months of fighting the once mighty DR. And our server at this point, is likely on at least tier 7 level.

In a word, the rating for our tier and probably others also was completely exaggerated from the weeks of free transfers to our opponents, forcing us to fight vastly outnumbered/out-timezoned for months more than we should have to in order to get into a balanced tier. We’ve already been putting up with months of generally ridiculous, stressful, and not fun WvWvW against mega-servers.

You people in the higher tiers have become selfish. I wouldn’t be surprised if half of those complaining are such servers, that received mass transfers and damaged the ratings of the lower tiers as you moved up. You look to paid transfers as if it alone were a solution to all the WvW and fail to consider the periods of population movement damaged the system as a whole. It’s therefore necessary to fix not only the core problem, (free transfers), but the outlying problems it also created as it continued unanswered (Busted ratings, etc.).

Yes things would of end up balanced eventually AFTER MONTHS MORE. And for the people who have been waiting 3+ months already for a relatively balanced matchup, and are forced to wait months more under a system of broken ratings, you’d ask them to “Wait some months more plox!” so that you can enjoy a good match at their expense? Just awesome people, just awesome.

For us, putting up with (Probably a nice PvE break) with tier 4-2 servers for 2-3 weeks is much better than our previous time projections of being stuck with Sorrow’s. We’ve been waiting 3 months already to get a relatively equal three way split. Enduring SF for another 2-3 months would be incredibly unfair for us. Where as with the free transfers ended, this reset will be of small consequence to the top tiers in the long run. Those servers that belong in tier 4 and up will quickly blow-out their way back up there in little time and sort their inner rankings in the next weeks, while those who belong in tier 5 and below will quickly fall there and sort themselves out before long also. In the end “Across the board” balanced matchups should be reached weeks-a month quicker than they would of otherwise. In the end, this should be much more fair for the whole scope of WvW, and not just the individual balanced or unbalanced tiers being considered. All it will take is a little patience.

Indeed, next week is gonna be a bloodbath for some servers.

Ruins of Surmia, Whiteside Ridge have both jumped 22 ranks, and will be facing Abaddon’s Mouth. They are going to in for quiet a shock as AM steamrolls over both servers, it is literally the worse matchup ever, like taking candy from two babies.

On WSR we belong in t8/9. We struggle for numbers in t8. Hitting t1 will be a nail in the coffin :/ the commanders met up to try put in place a tempered push this week so we didn’t hit t1, and the problem is, even without active guild participation, we’re still capable of running 400+ in t9(

Going tier1 will cause players to abandon WvW, will turn the PvE players we try to engage to participate back into their fractals. It may in worst cases cause more guilds and players to transfer out, which right now would be a death knell for the server. This reset couldn’t have come at a worse time for us.