Guild Wars 2

Here is an idea Anet….

Realm Ranks and points needed to unlock
——————
(ranked I/II/III/IV/V)
Peasant 1000 2000 3000 4000 5000
Commoner 7000 9000 11000 13000 15000
Squire 18000 21000 24000 27000
Soldier 31000 35000 39000 43000
Veteran 48000 53000 58000 63000
Lieutenant 69000 75000 81000 86000
Knight 92000 98000 104000 110000
Hero 117000 124000 131000 138000
Lord 146000 154000 162000 170000
Warlord 180000 190000 200000 210000
Immortal 230000 250000 270000 280000
Legend 310000 340000 370000 400000 430000
Saint 500000 (max on all passives)

Earning pts
——————
Kills are now split depending on contribution and divided equally among group members within vicinity

WvWvW Kill = 50 pts (total split depending on contribution)
Dolyak = 50 pts (total split depending on contribution)
Stomping = 10pts for all stomping
Cap pt = 25 pts
Cap Supply = 50 pts
Cap Tower = 100 pts
Cap Castle = 250 pts
Defense bonus = 50% bonus of total earned since last tick each tick (no Afking and no rewards for not defending successfully)
repair bonus = +1pt per supply pt used
Builder = +25pts per blueprint used
Revive Ally = 30pts.
Orb capture = 250pts too all in zone.
Rank bonus = +5 pts per rank difference in kill.
Buffed ally = +2 pts if ally kills whilst being buffed.
Healer = +5pts per person healed.
Solo Effort = +33% bonus

Passive abilities (ranks of I/II/III/IV/V) (cost of 1/2/3/4/5 per point. ie costs 15 pts for all 5 levels)
————
Pain giver. 3%/6%/9%/12%/15% damage increase
Resilient. 3%/6%/9%/12%/15% less damage taken
Massive Freak. 3%/6%/9%/12%/15% health pool increase
Lightfooted. 2%/4%/6%/8%/10% increased movement speed
Quick Hands. 2%/4%/6%/8%/10% Attack speed increase (quickness)
Eagle Eye. 2%/4%/6%/8%/10% increase on chance to crit and crit dam
Cleric. 5%/10%/15%/20%/25% increase in healing.
Endured. 20%/40%/60%/80%/100% stamina pool increase
Merciless. 20%/40%/60%/80%/100% increase in speed to stomp and damage downed opponents.
Weaponsmaster. 1/2/3/4/5 – can hit an additional target on melee attacks and AE skills.
Determined. 10%/20%/30%/40%/50% shortens CC time
Darwinism. 8%/12%/16%/20% reduction to condition damage
Long Sighted. 8%/12%/16%/20% less damage from ranged attacks
Short Sighted. 8%/12%/16%/20% less damage from melee attacks
Seige Expert. 6%/12%/18%/24%/30% extra damage with siege equipment
Efficient. 50%/100%/150%/200%/250% can use supply better.
One Hit Wonder. 5%/10%/15%/20%/25% decrease in Elite skill cooldowns
Aquatic. 20%/40%/60%/80%/100% extra damage underwater.
Shielded. 6%/12%/18%/24%/30% less damage when shield worn.
Influencial Aura. 25/50/75/100/125 increase in size of all AE.
Long Armed. 25/50/75/100/125 increased range with all weapons (including melee).
Learner. 6%/12%/18%/24%/30% Extra realm points.
Lucky Charm. 20%/40%/60%/80%/100% Magic find (WvW only)

Do it

Realm abilities have already been discussed in the DAoC comparison threads. A common view is that they are a barrier to entry as it creates a great divide between veterans and new players.

I mean seriously, 15% more damage done, 15% less damage taken etc etc etc. The deciding factor in any battle would be realm rank and nothing else.

@sooty: go watch ANet’s videos on game design.
Do it

I have a very simple response to this: No.

A longer one? Do this and lose a player.

Lol…at first i thought u pasted a dxdiag log hahaha

Tzash.5748:

Realm abilities have already been discussed in the DAoC comparison threads. A common view is that they are a barrier to entry as it creates a great divide between veterans and new players.

I mean seriously, 15% more damage done, 15% less damage taken etc etc etc. The deciding factor in any battle would be realm rank and nothing else.

this.

DO NOT DO THIS

this is what created such a huge rift in the pvp community and killed the last possible thing that would have kept swtor pvp alive (if you can even call it pvp lol)….

giving veterans such a huge gap as big as 30% over new players who just hit 80 is the same as giving people gear advantage that has to be ground for a huge amount of time in the same field as the people that are destroying them

currently the gear difference between a non 80 and an 80 can be solved through more than just PvP, because the gear is the same across the board.

if you add these so called ranks and give bonuses.. you create a huge rift between new and vet players that forces the new players to bang theirs heads against walls for weeks at a time trying to catch up..

no, absolutely no, its a bad idea to do something like this to an already semi-polished system

and yet we’ll all be bored of this game within 2 month when the luxury of alts wears off and theres no more progression to do.
the wvw isnt exactly thrilling right now is it, you either have everything or you have nothing.
sadly gw2 is just turning into another filler game until the next big thing

exactly right. with no progression in WvW, its a waste. Even your enemies change so there isn’t even a rivalry that can be instilled. This game will be a ghost town in a year and in 6 months wvw will be dead. No one really wants sPVP, if they really did they could do that in WoW or a myriad of other games that do it without all the hacks.

Take out passive damage boost/reduction/health boost and so on. Keep things like bonus magic find and other similar buffs not directly combat related.

Scotsin.1546:

Take out passive damage boost/reduction/health boost and so on. Keep things like bonus magic find and other similar buffs not directly combat related.

Agreed. There are many ways to implement progression. Unbalancing things is a sure-fire way to ensure a lack of longevity.

IMHO, why dont we just give more talent points? The abilities/spells are already in the game and designed. Maybe open up another slot to slot one per Realm Rank or something than balance around the combinations. Easy, done.

I highly disagree with the OP, but I do agree with Scotsin. (can’t quote for some reason)

Implement a system with mechanical bonuses based on time played, and I will never buy or play GW2 again.

THE DEFINING ASPECT of this game for a lot of people is that there is a finite and relatively easily attainable mechanical potential cap. Remove that design choice and this just becomes another WoW clone… albeit with far better combat and profession design.

I don’t say this to be mean, but if you absolutely must have a carrot continuously dangled just outside of your reach I think you should look for a different game.

tarnin.1690:

IMHO, why dont we just give more talent points? The abilities/spells are already in the game and designed. Maybe open up another slot to slot one per Realm Rank or something than balance around the combinations. Easy, done.

It would still give the higher RR player an advantage which goes against their design.

Is it really that difficult to be happy with cosmetic/utility gains or do you simply want to have that advantage because you play more?

I sometimes come off as offensive when I discuss this, so please understand that it isn’t my intention.

I think if an activity is fun, a person generally doesn’t need external incentive.
When an activity is dull, boring, or un-fun AND someone wants you to keep doing it – they offer you external incentives.

So the last decade or so of MMOs being based on subscription fees has created this environment where game developers want you to continue playing (and paying for) their game as long as is humanly possible. To achieve this, they continue to put carrots just out of your reach, and will always add a new carrot when the top 10-50% of people get the first one. They HAVE too, their business model demands it.

GW2 is not subscription based. It is much like FPS games, in that you should be playing the game when it is FUN for you – and not playing when it isn’t. If you feel you’ve completed the game, maybe it is time to put it down for a while and come back later when you want some wuvwuv love or a 100% “fair” arena experience.

waeren.9743:

tarnin.1690:

IMHO, why dont we just give more talent points? The abilities/spells are already in the game and designed. Maybe open up another slot to slot one per Realm Rank or something than balance around the combinations. Easy, done.

It would still give the higher RR player an advantage which goes against their design.

Is it really that difficult to be happy with cosmetic/utility gains or do you simply want to have that advantage because you play more?

Yes, yes it is. I posted this in the main DAoC thread but here is the issue. Toon wise, if i kill 100k people and some scrub who ground out dungeons and killed no one jump into WvW, we will be exactly the same… except his armor will look better (pvp armor looks like lv 10 crap). Also, there is really no incentive to WvW with no progression. The server pairing changes so we don’t get to keep rivalries for more than 2 weeks. Killing people for no gain gets old after a while. You can’t even have server pride because of the pairing changes. Even then, pride only takes you so far before boredom and repetition sets in. This IS an RPG, not an FPS you know. If I wanted to play bg’s all day I’d go to WoW or bust out Hat Simulator.

Sky.9347:

I think if an activity is fun, a person generally doesn’t need external incentive.
When an activity is dull, boring, or un-fun AND someone wants you to keep doing it – they offer you external incentives.

I think you’ll enjoy this – I saw a thread on General Discussion today where someone claimed that having fun was not a goal.

No.

I loved DAoC than any of you. I guarantee it. I loved the game, but realm rank and abilities and stealthers ruined the game permanently. Do not add any abilities on this game. I mean, NO.

tarnin.1690:

waeren.9743:

tarnin.1690:

IMHO, why dont we just give more talent points? The abilities/spells are already in the game and designed. Maybe open up another slot to slot one per Realm Rank or something than balance around the combinations. Easy, done.

It would still give the higher RR player an advantage which goes against their design.

Is it really that difficult to be happy with cosmetic/utility gains or do you simply want to have that advantage because you play more?

Yes, yes it is. I posted this in the main DAoC thread but here is the issue. Toon wise, if i kill 100k people and some scrub who ground out dungeons and killed no one jump into WvW, we will be exactly the same… except his armor will look better (pvp armor looks like lv 10 crap). Also, there is really no incentive to WvW with no progression. The server pairing changes so we don’t get to keep rivalries for more than 2 weeks. Killing people for no gain gets old after a while. You can’t even have server pride because of the pairing changes. Even then, pride only takes you so far before boredom and repetition sets in. This IS an RPG, not an FPS you know. If I wanted to play bg’s all day I’d go to WoW or bust out Hat Simulator.

Then ask for better WvW skins?
How about server pride? What does it matter what servers you’re playing against. Not to mention that you’ll most likely see the same servers unless the server’s performance goes way up or down.
If you want to gain an edge over someone who just started the game then I think you should’ve checked out aNet’s ideas a bit better.

But feel free to have fun while playing DAoC, I won’t be trying to change your game into something it’s not.

waeren.9743:

tarnin.1690:

waeren.9743:

tarnin.1690:

IMHO, why dont we just give more talent points? The abilities/spells are already in the game and designed. Maybe open up another slot to slot one per Realm Rank or something than balance around the combinations. Easy, done.

It would still give the higher RR player an advantage which goes against their design.

Is it really that difficult to be happy with cosmetic/utility gains or do you simply want to have that advantage because you play more?

Yes, yes it is. I posted this in the main DAoC thread but here is the issue. Toon wise, if i kill 100k people and some scrub who ground out dungeons and killed no one jump into WvW, we will be exactly the same… except his armor will look better (pvp armor looks like lv 10 crap). Also, there is really no incentive to WvW with no progression. The server pairing changes so we don’t get to keep rivalries for more than 2 weeks. Killing people for no gain gets old after a while. You can’t even have server pride because of the pairing changes. Even then, pride only takes you so far before boredom and repetition sets in. This IS an RPG, not an FPS you know. If I wanted to play bg’s all day I’d go to WoW or bust out Hat Simulator.

Then ask for better WvW skins?
How about server pride? What does it matter what servers you’re playing against. Not to mention that you’ll most likely see the same servers unless the server’s performance goes way up or down.
If you want to gain an edge over someone who just started the game then I think you should’ve checked out aNet’s ideas a bit better.

But feel free to have fun while playing DAoC, I won’t be trying to change your game into something it’s not.

You really don’t get it. It’s not about “having an edge”. Farming noobs nets you.. well, nothing even in that system. Your points were alocated by how many people hit that person and what RR you were and they were. Fighting 100 noobs would net you crap and would be boring to boot unless it was your 8 man vs 100 of them. Then it would be fun.

That’s another issue here. because of no progression, 100 scrub pvers could jump out of a dungeon with their shines, and just steam roll a few groups of good pvpers because the toons would be completely equal. Something about that is wrong.

You I know are are gen3 or 4 mmo player. Sorry to say but this is when MMOs hit main stream and turned into silver platter games and were dumbed down so my grandmother could play. All the complexity is gone.

tarnin.1690:

waeren.9743:

tarnin.1690:

waeren.9743:

tarnin.1690:

IMHO, why dont we just give more talent points? The abilities/spells are already in the game and designed. Maybe open up another slot to slot one per Realm Rank or something than balance around the combinations. Easy, done.

It would still give the higher RR player an advantage which goes against their design.

Is it really that difficult to be happy with cosmetic/utility gains or do you simply want to have that advantage because you play more?

Yes, yes it is. I posted this in the main DAoC thread but here is the issue. Toon wise, if i kill 100k people and some scrub who ground out dungeons and killed no one jump into WvW, we will be exactly the same… except his armor will look better (pvp armor looks like lv 10 crap). Also, there is really no incentive to WvW with no progression. The server pairing changes so we don’t get to keep rivalries for more than 2 weeks. Killing people for no gain gets old after a while. You can’t even have server pride because of the pairing changes. Even then, pride only takes you so far before boredom and repetition sets in. This IS an RPG, not an FPS you know. If I wanted to play bg’s all day I’d go to WoW or bust out Hat Simulator.

Then ask for better WvW skins?
How about server pride? What does it matter what servers you’re playing against. Not to mention that you’ll most likely see the same servers unless the server’s performance goes way up or down.
If you want to gain an edge over someone who just started the game then I think you should’ve checked out aNet’s ideas a bit better.

But feel free to have fun while playing DAoC, I won’t be trying to change your game into something it’s not.

You really don’t get it. It’s not about “having an edge”. Farming noobs nets you.. well, nothing even in that system. Your points were alocated by how many people hit that person and what RR you were and they were. Fighting 100 noobs would net you crap and would be boring to boot unless it was your 8 man vs 100 of them. Then it would be fun.

That’s another issue here. because of no progression, 100 scrub pvers could jump out of a dungeon with their shines, and just steam roll a few groups of good pvpers because the toons would be completely equal. Something about that is wrong.

You I know are are gen3 or 4 mmo player. Sorry to say but this is when MMOs hit main stream and turned into silver platter games and were dumbed down so my grandmother could play. All the complexity is gone.

Yes assuming what “generation” of mmo player I am is clearly the goal of this thread. And I’m sorry to say but you’re wrong.

I’m sorry you’re such a scrub that you need some advantage over other scrubs to help you out.

Have fun with DAoC.
Bye

STRONGLY disagree with the OP regarding progression and buffs especially those that deal with combat buffs.

Playing should not make a player any stronger. PvP and WvW should be mostly skill and very little to do with play time and gear. Which is the way it is now.

There are gear progressions that players can do if they choose (the Invader’s gear found at weaponsmiths and armorsmiths inside WvW which can be purchased for Badges of Honor). Badges of Honor can also be used to purchase siege equipment. So in effect, there is a reward for killing and being good in WvW. Not to mention the Legendary weapon.

Now, I will agree to any fluff kind of upgrade. This includes new armor skins… emblems… etc… would be kinda neat if after I kill a guy a symbol appears on his screen (of my guild or something). etc… anything that does not change the core balance which is that every player regardless of play time is on the same level.

If you do what you are suggesting, players with ridiculous amounts of play time will have a leg up over all casual players. And it is not about farming noobs, it would be that I can simply beat you because I am simply stronger than you. Not skill. Not anything… but an unfair advantage over you because I have more time to play than you and/or I started playing before you.

WvW is not a waste. In fact, I have found myself preferring to do that more than PvE for the past 2 weeks. Even as I write this (at work) I am thinking “Wow, I can’t wait to get back into the WvW fray”. I play it because its fun. Not because I need the GM to hand me a reward saying “you did good”. I am not that childish. I find joy in the gameplay. If you don’t, you need to re-evaluate why you play games.

@tarnin – you mentioned a rivalry cannot be instilled. I strongly disagree. I am on Sorrow’s Furnace. You think we can’t wait another chance at Fort Aspenwood? And don’t get me started on our current adversaries (maybe after this reset). There will be rivalries, I guarantee it.

In summary – do this idea and you will lose more players than can be counted and WvW will be useless.

^ well written, I agree with you

I agree with EnochDagor. Never played DAoC, but I did play WoW, and having to grind for PvP gear just so I could survive a hit or two to play PvP was horrible, especially after I got to spend an inordinate amount of time grinding gear before I could do raids in PvE.

Playing the game is fun. Yes it’s all made up and the point don’t matter. It’s still fun. Cripes, I’ve spent decades wasting time playing FPS games where my victory doesn’t last beyond the end of a fifteen minute match and the extent of progression is figuring out where the BFG happens to spawn. New players would do strange and radical things that would kill you all the time and nobody patched it out because you were lucky if the development studio was still around a month after launch. Playing this is like the old games my friends and I used to have of backyard king of the hill that would last all summer.

/old man rant

(not that old… I’m only 29… but still yeesh you guys).

Yes, there is no point. There is no ultrashiny bauble of beatdown™ that you get for playing for a day, a week, a month, or a year. The best you can get is a (ugly imho) special skin on a piece of armor or a weapon, and at best it’s perfectly on par with the one some n00b who got lucky just killed you with.

If you need somebody to hang a carrot in front of your nose to play a game you’re doing it wrong. It’s a game, you’re supposed to play it because it’s fun.

But it gets boring fast when you are just playing to play. Without an incentive there is no real reason to play for any long period of time. See board games work and other games because there is an end. In an MMO there is no end so you either continue to progress or you go to another game. The way it is now, there is no progression at all and of course, no end.

tarnin.1690:

But it gets boring fast when you are just playing to play. Without an incentive there is no real reason to play for any long period of time. See board games work and other games because there is an end. In an MMO there is no end so you either continue to progress or you go to another game. The way it is now, there is no progression at all and of course, no end.

Why can’t an MMO end? Every other game genre does. Why must it continue forever? not sarcastic or anything, this is an actual question

Because MMO’s are open ended. If it “ended” people who just started wouldnt get to play the whole game. This mmo comes the closest to “ending” with new pairings i guess.

Except that WvW does end. Not sure how your argument works here. Once the match is over, one of the 3 sides is the winner. The other 2 are the losers. So your goal is to be the winner. Just like a board game.

EnochDagor.6185:

Except that WvW does end. Not sure how your argument works here. Once the match is over, one of the 3 sides is the winner. The other 2 are the losers. So your goal is to be the winner. Just like a board game.

But it still doesnt “end”. You go on again with the SAME toon. Thats where its open ended. Until an RPG, its not the end of the game. It’s still going. not sure how else to explain this…

I’d like to see some titles based on #of kills, etc (many more than exists for the achievements), but giving boosts to players who play all the time creates a huge have/have not atmosphere and removes the even playing field.

I have over 5000 kills on WvW and have no desire for something like that to make me “improved” over the guy who first steps into the battleground.

I dont believe time should = better gear/skills at all. You should be a better player because you practice more, not because you’re given free boosts.

Yewkon.5802:

I’d like to see some titles based on #of kills, etc (many more than exists for the achievements), but giving boosts to players who play all the time creates a huge have/have not atmosphere and removes the even playing field.

I have over 5000 kills on WvW and have no desire for something like that to make me “improved” over the guy who first steps into the battleground.

I dont believe time should = better gear/skills at all. You should be a better player because you practice more, not because you’re given free boosts.

QFT

tarnin.1690:

EnochDagor.6185:

Except that WvW does end. Not sure how your argument works here. Once the match is over, one of the 3 sides is the winner. The other 2 are the losers. So your goal is to be the winner. Just like a board game.

But it still doesnt “end”. You go on again with the SAME toon. Thats where its open ended. Until an RPG, its not the end of the game. It’s still going. not sure how else to explain this…

The end of a power climb does not have to mean the end of the game. In skyrim, for example, I have maxed all the skills I want, and have gotten about the best gear possible. that doesn’t stop me playing and having fun. does this help?

kitanas.3596:

tarnin.1690:

EnochDagor.6185:

Except that WvW does end. Not sure how your argument works here. Once the match is over, one of the 3 sides is the winner. The other 2 are the losers. So your goal is to be the winner. Just like a board game.

But it still doesnt “end”. You go on again with the SAME toon. Thats where its open ended. Until an RPG, its not the end of the game. It’s still going. not sure how else to explain this…

The end of a power climb does not have to mean the end of the game. In skyrim, for example, I have maxed all the skills I want, and have gotten about the best gear possible. that doesn’t stop me playing and having fun. does this help?

Do you think you will be playing it in another 6 months or a year? This is an MMO, something that traditionally is played for years at a time (i did 6 years in DAoC, how many have 6+ in WoW?)

tarnin.1690:

kitanas.3596:

tarnin.1690:

EnochDagor.6185:

Except that WvW does end. Not sure how your argument works here. Once the match is over, one of the 3 sides is the winner. The other 2 are the losers. So your goal is to be the winner. Just like a board game.

But it still doesnt “end”. You go on again with the SAME toon. Thats where its open ended. Until an RPG, its not the end of the game. It’s still going. not sure how else to explain this…

The end of a power climb does not have to mean the end of the game. In skyrim, for example, I have maxed all the skills I want, and have gotten about the best gear possible. that doesn’t stop me playing and having fun. does this help?

Do you think you will be playing it in another 6 months or a year? This is an MMO, something that traditionally is played for years at a time (i did 6 years in DAoC, how many have 6+ in WoW?)

yes. I won’t be playing day in/day out ( I don’t do that anymore) But I will be playing, mainly because of the lack of progression. I won’t be underpowered by the progression curve.

Titles would be ok, no tangible rewards that will increase your power vs. other players in pvp, that is pve mentality.

People who want to out gear or out rank their opponents to use better gear/abilities will not stay anyways since they dont even enjoy pvp in the first place as those all go against the entire point of pvp in the first place which is competitive gameplay.

I keep reading that lots of people are going to quit doing WvWvW once they get to 80 and have all their exotic gear and those people probably will since they are pvers and were just trying something new out and that is fine, just dont try do have WvWvW’s turned into yet another heroic instance

I’m going to jump on the bandwagon here and agree that it’s generally a horrible idea to make future performance a function of previous performance or otherwise reward success in WvW with power.

However! I will gladly concede that a little progression isn’t necessarily a bad thing, especially if the progression is predominately lateral instead of vertical and all vertical gains are minimal. The Badges of Honor economy, although unreliable, at least represents a type of this progression. I would be in favor of a similar but more linear individual progression, and I think it’s fair to draw a line between “what does my character look like?” and “what does my character do?”

Secondly, while the OP’s numbers are obscene, I frankly wouldn’t be opposed to marginal stat gains over the life of a character. This isn’t because I’m personally in favor of this, but because the game already has this in place. Currently, these gains are obtained on a (defending) guild basis, but not individual (I’m relying on the wiki for this information, as I can’t log in atm). I think it would be disingenuous to suggest that this doesn’t create the same barrier-to-entry problems as the OP’s suggestions taken to their logical far end-points. After all, a new player to WvW is unlikely to belong to a guild that can burn large amounts of influence improving its defense of a fortification it possesses. Nevertheless, the ability is there, however marginal and inefficient. This to me seems like a tacit admission by ANet that there’s a realm, however narrow, in which these kinds of things aren’t unfair. Of course, if you think that no vertical progression is acceptable in PVP, that’s an absolutely valid position; I would question, though, why if you hold that position you aren’t raising pitchforks and torches and protesting the influence bonuses for WvW (and if you did during beta and I missed that crusade, props to you for putting your money where your mouth is).

I like the idea of implementing something because gamers have a certain drive to reach goals. We measure our success with milestones; it’s hard-wired into our culture, and this isn’t something that’s merely the product of the MMO-style Skinner box. We keep score, we categorize levels and mark progress. There’s frankly no legitimate argument for this game to have more than 20-30 experience levels than progression, and during beta the developers said explicitly that they tiered traits and skills so it would give a sense of progression. There’s nothing wrong with that. The question is a scale and direction question.

As much as I despise CCP as a company (Monacle-gate! WE REMEMBER!) and large portions of the PVP community on Eve, the designers did a spectacular job of structuring long-term progression without creating a barrier to entry (that game’s barrier of entry was a different issue altogether) because the progression is frequently lateral, and beyond a certain threshold, with a given setup your gains per time investment are extremely inefficient.

So, is it possible to refine the OP’s suggestion into something that can be stomached by those of us who love what DAOC was about but could never ever entertain the possibility of making an alt or inviting a new friend to play on its servers? I think so. In order to make a progression system that I believe the company would even consider, it would have to satisfy their design principles as well as a few general principles of good design. That means that it doesn’t impair accessibility for new players, it promotes intra-World cooperation instead of competition, it minimizes power creep, and it encourages community-building and maintenance. Here is an example paradigm to illustrate what I’m advocating:

• Players gain ranks in WvW in a similar fashion to the way they gain ranks in sPVP. Mechanically I have no idea how this might work, as I’ve never actually tried to break down the glory numbers. I’m willing to stipulate that ANet could do this in a workable fashion without batting an eye.
• Rank has no inherent statistical effect.
• As a player gains rank, he/she may allocate points coordinate with his WR in a tree similar to the trait tree. He/she also gains titles at set intervals.
• Unlike the trait tree, however the WR tree is a hard exponential curve, so that early points come fast, but become more and more sparce as the player obtains a cumulatively higher amount. This adds long-term progression to the system without hindering accessibility. If a 0.01% percent bonus is the only available bonus left to get, it starts to look really good, and five months of regular play doesn’t seem like a bad investment if you’re enjoying the game.
• Points allocated in the WR tree gain the player access to abilities. Abilities are non-cumulative and may be slotted, similarly to the way traits and skills are slotted; they may be passive or active. I’ll leave that to the professionals to work out. This is just an example, after all.
• ALL (this is important) abilities gained through WR are GTAOEs/auras/walls/etc. that effect all friendly players in the vicinity (about the range of Guardian virtues I think, but happy to defer again). To emphasize, by all I mean no damage abilities, no utilities, no mobility buffs, no range buffs, no debuffs, no conditions. All flat statistic buffs—not even boons. Why? Because the minute you do something else you’ve created a balance nightmare in which profession synergy can dictate builds, team composition, and cooperation in WvW. Basically you’ve reintroduced the sub-class problem.
• NONE of the abilities gained through WR have any beneficial value greater than half the current value available to a defender as a result of influence-purchased guild upgrades in the Art of War panel. This value is arbitrary because it’s a place I know ANet has already decided the numbers are okay.
• All Art of War stat upgrades have their values cut in half. This means there’s a hard cap on WvW bonuses, and the availability of the stats are split between guilds and individuals; frankly I think this is an exceptional change, as it allows players who don’t belong to those guilds but may end up defending a fortification to gain some benefit even if the guild neglects to invest in its land holdings.
• No player can ever have a cumulative benefit greater than the present total benefit of Art of War upgrades, no matter how many high WR characters are nearby (e.g., you never ever get more than +10% Healing and/or +40 Precision). Again, hard cap at work. Organized teams can arrange their slots to minimize waste.
• Really cool profession-unique visual effects for WR abilities. A +20 Power bonus isn’t quite as awesome as a Reaver bomb, but there’s a good kitten reason Reaver bomb isn’t in this game. You give the player a strong visual cue to make him feel good about himself and let the enemy team know what’s up.

That’s an example. I have no idea whether the system would be good, bad, rewarding, enjoyable, or a total mechanical nightmare with a server-choking lag trainwreck to boot. But it solves some of the problems that some alternatives have, and I mean it to stand for the principles that need to be considered. I always fall back to Rawls when I talk game mechanics for some reason: If you didn’t know whether you would have these abilities or whether they would be on your team or the other team, what would you want them to look like?

Of course, there’s another question that has to be asked too: Is this a solution in need of a problem? I think progression is meritorious as a design goal, but I know not everyone may agree. After all, if you’re happy collecting heads, you don’t need a carrot for that. But personally, the fact that I like my head collection doesn’t mean I wouldn’t also enjoy collecting heads in a world in which the head-taking community will give me a promotion for taking heads.

As much as I would love more character progression, I don’t think damage, speed or defense increases are the answer. There already is a fairly large gap between a level 80 in exotics and a level 80 in masterwork gear, not to mention the gap between leveling players in mismatched gear. Adding RR ability or percentile increases will increase the
gap so far that entry level 80s and leveling players will be obselete/useless.

I’m definitely in favor of cosmetic and title benefits, or an additional utility or trait line that boosts WvW orientated ability, but power increases are a big no no from me.

I agree in so much that we should have more WvW titles and access to more cosmetic alternatives, but not in regards to stat bonus.

I believe many players were waiting this game as it’s advertised that you won’t have to grind to be effective. You suggestions creating a really huge grind, which has serious impacts on WvW effectiveness

Just talking for myself, such a feature would definitely make me leave the game as I just left SWTOR for exact same reason.

i would certainly love some progression, even if it was only titles. i would like to be recognized as <servername><WvWvW title> instead of just <servername>invader/defender. there also should be more statistics imho like solokills, wvw deaths etc. i am not sure why they put so many achievements in but left out key ones.
i don’t think you need to get much/anything at all statwise from being higher wvw rank, the lone fact that people can see you played well/much is probably enough for most older players who come from daoc or whatever other game that had pvp progression. one key thing though would be that the highest rank would be almost unattainable. it would really suck if everyone and his mother would be grandmasterfunkdoguberguy after 3 months.

something needs to be done to keep players out there and fighting, its pretty clear the score doesn’t do that. I think something like this would.

Sorry but I stopped at giving 10 points for stomping, bad enough I see 6-7 people in a zerg stop to gank the one guy left behind so the rest get away we don’t need morep eople doing it.

I still disagree with the thoughts in this thread.

Sure the numbers need some tweaking (15% down to maybe 8-10% or so – depending on testing), but i am talking WvWvW. Where the fight is hardly even.

sPvP is an enclosed sandbox area where everyone is equal. WvWvW is different. We have people geared in full Exotics vs level 5s in Pizza Box armor. Ive often laughed with guildies in Vent when we hit someone twice and they vaporize.

At the same time, ive seen us get totally steamrolled with no hope of survival against a zerg. Its all part of the Open world experience. We come back and think smarter.

If you want a sandbox fight, then you go sPvP (“STRUCTURED” is the keyword here).
If you want open world (Key word" OPEN") then you go open world WvWvW.

People should see high ranking players and genuinely be instilled with fear and Terror.

I luffed DaoC when you saw the RR10 guys running around and you wouldnt even engage unless you had more numbers (before RR10 became Fotm). We want Pride and respect.

I have another suggestion. At RR5, your title becomes your name. so people actually see " Veteran Sooty" or whatever in red above their opponent.

Pride is one of the most important assets of an open world MMO.

@Xieron
That is a great solution ImO that follows the vision ANet has given us.
The only problem i have with power increases or other essentially AA progression is that it is no different from gear progression. Gaining +15% damage or +20 vitality is no different from creating another tier of gear. The reason I like Xierons’ suggestion is because it is not a balance nightmare, the abilities don’t increase overall power or defense of the individual but they give options that promote teamwork, which is Imo the very foundation of WvW.

@ sooty

I think you’re kinda missing the point. it’s not about the numbers. It is about different philosophies. one of the things areanet has stated is that there will be an easily reached power platue. this suggestion, by it’s inherent nature, goes against that. what you are asking for is akin to asking WOW to not be a progression base game.

Jesus people need to relax, wait at least like 3 months before you get up in arms and see what they plan to add.

But a ranking system would be nice