Guild Wars 2

Hello
I use roccat keyboard and i need driver and program(i use driver from official website)to run this keyboard and they got some macro program in it and i got ban?
that not fair cuz i think all hi-end keyboard had macro program in it in driver even in keyboard itself.
that mean who use hi-end keyboard gonna get ban?
btw i don’t use any macro command in gw2 and sorry for my bad english.

I don’t think they ban macro keyboards. I use logitech G-series keyboard and so are many of my friends.

I use logitech G510 and have been incorrectly banned. nearly 24 hours now since I submitted my ticket, no response yet.

i use Roccat Isku and ROccat Savu too, but never used macro anyway, only bind for autorun switch weapon on mouse, added to this i have running ASRock (motherboard) software called Xfastlan which is official software for traffic shaping in LAN not a sniffer not something which can modify packets.
and yesterday got banned.

Triagon, I have G-15 keyboard and Naga. I also bind my autoruns ( I bound it to one of the tiny mouse button near Naga left click button ) and weapon switch ( I bound my weapon switch to mouse wheel click ). So far, I am still able to login normally and play.

I’ve been using a G series keyboard for several years and haven’t been banned in any game because of it. I hardly use the programmable keys for GW2, but the software is always running.

It seems pretty unlikely that people are getting banned simply for having a gaming peripheral like a keyboard or mouse. I’m not saying false positives are impossible, but they are very rare.

I literally just ordered a Logitech G110 keyboard and G600 mouse.

Does that mean I cant even use these, even when the buttons are just remaps?
Since, as stated, the mouse would likely let me play “better/faster” then some.

Sokonomi,

I really don’t think they are banning people because of those keyboards and mice

I surely hope not. The software certainly is capable of tremendous combo attacks, even though I don’t plan on using that.

I would find it extremely silly to see anet banning people for using gamergrade peripherals though. For that same reason they could start banning people for using mechanical keyboards or excessive DPI mice, or even 3D (You know how much easier jump puzzles get in 3D? I do.)

Sokonomi.6825:

I literally just ordered a Logitech G110 keyboard and G600 mouse.

Does that mean I cant even use these, even when the buttons are just remaps?
Since, as stated, the mouse would likely let me play “better/faster” then some.

I’m almost positive that you won’t end up banned for using them. Anet doesn’t seem to have a problem with people using gaming peripherals as long as they aren’t being used to automate stuff to the point where the player could walk away from the keyboard and their character would still be considered active. Remapping a few keys still requires you to be at the PC mashing buttons.

Gaile Gray.6028:

We do not terminate accounts based on the use of hardware, unless that also involves third-party programs that give an advantage to a player. A single one-to-one bind is fine. Binding 11 different skills to one press of a key isn’t so fine.

…so 10 is okay then, thanks for the heads up!

Hmmm… 5 for weapon skills, 1 for heal, 3 for utility and 1 for elite…. yep that will do fine! Thank you very much!

:P

Cheers,
M.

Osiris.3467:

Hello
I use roccat keyboard and i need driver and program(i use driver from official website)to run this keyboard and they got some macro program in it and i got ban?
that not fair cuz i think all hi-end keyboard had macro program in it in driver even in keyboard itself.
that mean who use hi-end keyboard gonna get ban?
btw i don’t use any macro command in gw2 and sorry for my bad english.

I have been using rocat Isku since first beta all way through head start to now,
And…
NOT one single problem with it, no bans, no trouble.
So sorry your wrong.

Gaile Gray.6028:

We do not terminate accounts based on the use of hardware, unless that also involves third-party programs that give an advantage to a player. A single one-to-one bind is fine. Binding 11 different skills to one press of a key isn’t so fine.

So – is there are hard limit on skill bindings? Any guidelines people can follow to avoid being a false positive while trying to prevent RSI from all the button mashing?

If WoW can support all the rebindings and combos and macros people want and still control bots, and GW2 can’t, that says some things about GW2’s engine.

Gilosean.3805:

Gaile Gray.6028:

We do not terminate accounts based on the use of hardware, unless that also involves third-party programs that give an advantage to a player. A single one-to-one bind is fine. Binding 11 different skills to one press of a key isn’t so fine.

So – is there are hard limit on skill bindings? Any guidelines people can follow to avoid being a false positive while trying to prevent RSI from all the button mashing?

If WoW can support all the rebindings and combos and macros people want and still control bots, and GW2 can’t, that says some things about GW2’s engine.

WoW macros don’t let the game play by itself while you’re AFK. Some keyboard software can be set up to play for you while AFK, that’s a huuuge difference.

Cerise.9045:

Gilosean.3805:

Gaile Gray.6028:

We do not terminate accounts based on the use of hardware, unless that also involves third-party programs that give an advantage to a player. A single one-to-one bind is fine. Binding 11 different skills to one press of a key isn’t so fine.

So – is there are hard limit on skill bindings? Any guidelines people can follow to avoid being a false positive while trying to prevent RSI from all the button mashing?

If WoW can support all the rebindings and combos and macros people want and still control bots, and GW2 can’t, that says some things about GW2’s engine.

WoW macros don’t let the game play by itself while you’re AFK. Some keyboard software can be set up to play for you while AFK, that’s a huuuge difference.

Right. But Gaile’s post says that even just setting up a skill combo is potentially risky. WoW lets you set up skill combos. And given the number of people who are reporting that they were banned falsely for botting I’m a bit worried about false positives. Any new system has kinks to shake out, and ANet probably thought false positives were better than false negatives.

I would and do avoid it. The only binds I’ve made on my G19 is to launch the game.

I’ve thought about making a quicky bind for going afk that would keep my dude attacking in case I got aggro’d or whatnot (spoiled by ranger main’s pet) but decided not to because automating attacks is pretty explicitly against the eula. Similarly, multiple-key-binds-in-one would also be pretty explicitly out of the question.

Gilosean.3805:

Cerise.9045:

Gilosean.3805:

Gaile Gray.6028:

We do not terminate accounts based on the use of hardware, unless that also involves third-party programs that give an advantage to a player. A single one-to-one bind is fine. Binding 11 different skills to one press of a key isn’t so fine.

So – is there are hard limit on skill bindings? Any guidelines people can follow to avoid being a false positive while trying to prevent RSI from all the button mashing?

If WoW can support all the rebindings and combos and macros people want and still control bots, and GW2 can’t, that says some things about GW2’s engine.

WoW macros don’t let the game play by itself while you’re AFK. Some keyboard software can be set up to play for you while AFK, that’s a huuuge difference.

Right. But Gaile’s post says that even just setting up a skill combo is potentially risky. WoW lets you set up skill combos. And given the number of people who are reporting that they were banned falsely for botting I’m a bit worried about false positives. Any new system has kinks to shake out, and ANet probably thought false positives were better than false negatives.

Setting up skill combos within WoW lets you do it while staying in the game though. Setting up skill combos on 1 button with GW2 requires you to use an external program, and the same program can be used to make your game play while you’re AFK.

So the general advice is “don’t use a program that has functionality built in that can make the game play while you’re AFK”.

But for 7 years in GW1 I used my keyboard software to type “/rank” and “/dance” in <0.1 seconds for me at the press of one button, and that never caused any problems, so you don’t have to be too paranoid.

The warning to not use those macro programs is there so you can’t use “but Gaile said it was ok to use them!!!” as an excuse if something happens.

My only multi-key macro on my Logitech G13 gameboard is “hide UI – take screenshot – enable UI”.
It does not offer any game advantage so I am confident it is allowed without problems.

Also, automatic emotes for RP purposes seem harmless enough.

well, in addiction for those Roccat users, maybe it’s not macroing but when we associate a keyboard profile and a mouse profile to gw2.exe at launch, those programs change profiles, so there is some .dll linked to use of gw2, i don’t know if it is considered as macroing, for sure gives no advantage ingaming, cause it changes colour of keyboard/mouse or deactive windows button on keyboard or speedup double click
really nothin gto do with advantages over other players, but i’ts always some process
running on PC linked to the exe, in this case some stealth software could process it as
illegal software…
My 2 cents

I have a Roccat Kone and Valo myself, both the mouse and keyboard have macro functions.

I have some little macro’s like when i clicked once i actually do 10 left mouse clicks (that was for the loads of tot-bags i had to open that i farmed with clocktower lol)

With Roccat though.. it can save little macro’s on the device itself.
But when it’s more than.. i think it was around 20-25 actions, it will save the macro on the pc instead.
I’ve played a couple of other games where the game would detect the (big) macro on pc while it didnt detect the (small) one saved on my mouse at all.

@ksabers that is a very nice macro idea. i’ll have to put that one on my keyboard too

I think that the answer of Gaile meant that it is ok to bind one skill with a button, it is not-so-ok letting the keyboard play for you.

Even in WoW, for /castsequence macro, you had to mash the button, unless you used the keyboard to mash it for you… and then, it could be considered “third party software”.

So, stick with “simple” combo, but don’t bind “W 3 seconds, Tab, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 6, D 1 second, repeat”…. could be BAAAAAD

What she means is pressing 1 button to set off for 1 skill is fine but pressing 1 button and having 11 skills go off is bad. I think.

So if I would use a simple macro that would bind:
About face
2 (Staff Mesmer) or 5 (Dagger Air Elementalist)
About Face

In order to move across the map faster without getting carpal tunnel, would this be allowed or would it be grounds for banning me?

I’d like to know because I recently started experimenting with such macros (it is a feature of my keyboard after all) to alleviate the amount of button mashing I have to do after getting painful hands/wrists (occasionally) due to playing. If it is ‘illegal’ to use such macros and grounds for a ban then I will of course stop using them.

Mitch.9285:

So if I would use a simple macro that would bind:
About face
2 (Staff Mesmer) or 5 (Dagger Air Elementalist)
About Face

In order to move across the map faster without getting carpal tunnel, would this be allowed or would it be grounds for banning me?

I’d like to know because I recently started experimenting with such macros (it is a feature of my keyboard after all) to alleviate the amount of button mashing I have to do after getting painful hands/wrists (occasionally) due to playing. If it is ‘illegal’ to use such macros and grounds for a ban then I will of course stop using them.

I want to know this too.

Sorry, ANet. Gamers use hi-end keyboard with macro technology. If your software can’t tell the difference between a player using simple macros and a bot operating independently, your software needs a ton of work. It’s understandable, but it would be nice if you’d admit it instead of trying to claim the process isn’t automatic (given the numbers of people posting genuine ticket numbers in the ban thread and how many player actions need to be analyzed for bot-detection, the ban process is either mostly automatic or so deeply flawed that most of the player bans are wrong).

In the meantime the very least you can do is give players guidelines so we can avoid being banned and clogging up your Support when all we’re trying to do is play the game. Making a game and then banning people for using macros is like making a sandwich shop and only accepting dollar bills. Can be done, but people need to be warned. And yeah, botters will find out too. The answer is to improve the ban system, which needs to be done anyway, so it’s a win/win for everyone except botters.

GW2 worked fine with my aging Logitech G15, but now I got banned using my brand spanking new Razer Deathstalker Ultimate.

well, as much as id like to have a nice fancy keyboard to use, unfortunantly i dont, i do however have one of those “Razer naga 2012 edition” mmo mouses, where the number pad is on the mouse, so i like to mash the buttons with my thumb xd
i was indeed falsely banned for that whole “botting” cr@p earlier today, however im fairly sure that it was not the hardware’s fault, and more so along the lines of Anet screwing up

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

well, as much as id like to have a nice fancy keyboard to use, unfortunantly i dont, i do however have one of those “Razer naga 2012 edition” mmo mouses, where the number pad is on the mouse, so i like to mash the buttons with my thumb xd
i was indeed falsely banned for that whole “botting” cr@p earlier today, however im fairly sure that it was not the hardware’s fault, and more so along the lines of Anet screwing up

I also have a Razer Naga, so I rarely use the 1-0, F1-F4 keys on my keyboard. I’m sure all of use are in the same boat with being falsely banned for “botting”, and because we did nothing wrong, we just have to wait for them to fix the issue.

Id like to know how MUCH players being banned play? Around the time of your ban? I dont think their program is seeing your keyboard or what your doing with it. I am using a 20$ cheapie keyboard and was banned for botting too.. my only thing I noticed was that at the time I was banned I was power lvling up a new 80 on the dynamic event chains.

So don’t think it was for your keyboard neccesarily I think their anti botting program is heavy handed flags things it shouldnt and does not have a human over seeing it prior to ban

#121113-002895 un ban me

I was banned. I’ve probably played the game less than 20 hours. I’ve a G15 keyboard. I don’t use the macro keys for this game (or any game, anymore). G15 owners beware?

Harp.9315:

I was banned. I’ve probably played the game less than 20 hours. I’ve a G15 keyboard. I don’t use the macro keys for this game (or any game, anymore). G15 owners beware?

Eh. So far there’s so many real players being banned for ‘botting’ that there’s no way to tell what set it off. It might be part of ANet’s master plan to keep botters from being able to figure it out – or it might be that ANet’s QA team didn’t do their job. Given how many bugs are in the rest of the game, I’m leaning towards the latter.

We do not terminate accounts based on the use of hardware, unless that also involves third-party programs that give an advantage to a player. A single one-to-one bind is fine. Binding 11 different skills to one press of a key isn’t so fine.

100% agree, but what about simple talking like " /g Hello", other channels, emotes, short predefined messages ?
they IMHO don’t give an andvantage, but official opinion could be different. And would be nice to have clarification in this matter before using it

my guess is that anets automatic bot banner simply flaggs people farming in the cursed shore and instantly banns them if they have been logged on for a while, reguardless of what mouse or keyboard they are using

no need for investigations or a real person to take a look, apparently being logged in all day (just 1 day out of several months)instantly makes you a botter

Gaile Gray.6028:

We do not terminate accounts based on the use of hardware, unless that also involves third-party programs that give an advantage to a player. A single one-to-one bind is fine. Binding 11 different skills to one press of a key isn’t so fine.

Hello Gaile, thank you for the clarification. I have a Razer Mouse and Keyboard—I’d like to use the official driver for those 2 products and do not intend to ever use the macro features included in it. I won’t put my account in jeopardy by simply using the official driver, will I?

This was just what I was looking for, thank you Gailie for clearing this up!

Hello,

First of all, sorry for my english, it’s not my native language ^^"

A few days ago I have been banned for 3 days, actually reduced to 2 days, after your Support Team’s investigation (the time required for the investigation i guess).
I was surprised because i didn’t used any macros nor any prohibited software on my computer.
Despite something has been detected by the system (it’s a fact), i still don’t know what i should uninstall or do to avoid this ban :/
I was really lost…

When i asked the reason for this ban, the support team finally explained (after 3 messages) that the problem was linked to my keyboard (a logitech G15) without any further details.
It’s an old version of the G15, with the original software, and it has never been updated…
Maybe this is the reason why players with the “same keyboard” (but maybe with a new version of the device and/or software) did not encountered the same problem.

After various email exchanges with the support about “What can i do to avoid a permanent ban ?”, because i didn’t use any macro or anything else on my keyboard.
I finally got this answer :
- Macros are prohibited, even if you didn’t use it, you have to “switch them off” your system to play (i guess they were talking about the software). So, in order not to be banned again, i uninstalled it completely… and i uninstalled my mouse software too because it is a logitech G5 and it can also do macros with it.
- You must not used “extra keys or buttons” that are not on standard keyboards/mouses. They were not very sure on that part. Maybe i can be banned again , may be not, but they advised to avoid it.

These 2 points have been “confirmed”, firstly by the support by email, secondly by a moderator on the official french forum (https://forum-fr.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/tech/Politique-sur-programmes-tiers-pr-cisions-svp/first#post89462)

I wanted to share this information with you.
I think it’s a strange solution, but why not if it let me plays safe ^^".

Nao

@Nao
I have G15 version 1 on my gaming machine and there was never a problem since I did not use it’s macro function at all. I really don’t think you have to uninstall the software. Gaile also said in her post. If its 1 to 1, it will be fine. If a player hit one button to make more than one key press in game, then its treading on danger ground.

Really doubt the logitech profile program and razer synapse would cause any sort of bans by being idle or even just used as a regular keyboard and mouse. Lots of people have those programs installed and don’t even consider it a problem. It’s like owning a car, but choosing not to drive it into a kindergarten (because that would be evil to do). Banning all cars off the road cause somebody might use it as a missile is silly. Same for this.

No problems with LGS 8.3+

if you’re using an older version, its probably being flagged as an uncertified application.

Squall Leonhart.2075:

No problems with LGS 8.3+

if you’re using an older version, its probably being flagged as an uncertified application.

Have you done anything besides 1-1 keybindings?

I love this game, but the required button-mashing is just nutty. And not supporting simple macros is, in this day and age, not a very understandable decision. But it sounds like that’s what Gaile has been saying, and any clarification would be good.

Why do you need button mushing ? Skill 1 can be set to auto-attack and the rest of the skills always have some cool down. Press a button every 10 sec is not that much.

They’ve already stated that any macro use at all and even having any software installed that enables macros is a violation and potential permanent ban. Given that they are banning everybody and their uncle lately, including innocent people (which is shown by the number of ‘macro/bot users’ they have reinstated), why even tempt their ‘bot ban net’?

If you use a gaming keyboard and/or mouse even without violating their rules and ANet finds out and the best case is you get locked out of your account for 3-5 days, the worse case you end up with some cowboy GM trying to make an example out of you for being a potential cheater.

Remember we all agreed that they don’t need a reason to ban you from your account. So they don’t have to justify why they ban you. They are manually checking on all these bans after the fact lately only because it makes good business sense, not because they are obligated to do so.

So if you want to be ‘more safe’, get a generic keyboard and mouse and keep any sort of macro software off your box.

@jimthev
Gaile already said gaming keyboard software is NOT the reason they ban people. If you bind one key stroke to cast 5 skills, then its not allowed.

Zaken.1806:

@jimthev
Gaile already said gaming keyboard software is NOT the reason they ban people. If you bind one key stroke to cast 5 skills, then its not allowed.

No she didn’t she skipped saying the keyboard software is ok. She only said the hardware wasn’t a problem and using the keyboard with your GW2 options to set a single key to a single action was ok. Nao was told that “Macros are prohibited, even if you didn’t use it”. ANet says that any software that could be used to gain an advantage is grounds for banning, not the use of the software just the existence of it.

For example, the CH Products Control Manager lets you set up a MFP/joysticks/keyboards either as a simple 1 press = 1 key or with very complex macros. Until she states that just having the program is ok, I’m not playing GW2 on my computer that has my MFP on it (that I still use to play GW1 occasionally). Since by ANet definition the Control Manager is a 3rd party program that would let me gain an advantage over other people since I could make a single button activate two or more skills.

Gaile could make an explicit statement saying that having the drivers/config software on your system for advanced keyboards and mice is not a problem and they won’t ban anybody for just having it installed and running. Such transparency would be nice. Until then, the software is a no-no by their own words.

I am using a Logitech G13 an G15v2 combination here. I bind almost every key used to play GW1 or GW2 to my G15 using the Logitech software. Never had any problem with it in GW1 or GW2.

In the past I did wrote to GW1 support about the use of the G13/G15 and this was the answer that I got:

You asked if your programmable keyboard was acceptable to use for playing Guild Wars. “What if…?” questions such as this are always tough to answer, because they have not happened yet. Nevertheless, I’ll try to give you an understanding of what we might consider “right” and “wrong” when interacting with our service as it related to your new keyboard.

Using your programmable keyboard as a normal keyboard would certainly be fine. A keyboard is a basic tool that is virtually required to operate a computer and use our service. Each time you press a key, one character is typed or one action is made to happen and, in general, that is acceptable.

If you were somehow able to use your programmable keyboard to fully automate your gameplay experience, especially to the point where you did not have to attend your computer while your keyboard software “played” the game for you, then that would be considered against our User Agreement and subject to disciplinary action. (“You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorized by NC Interactive, including but not limited to the use of ‘bots’ and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input.”)

Somewhere in between those two scenarios is a grey area. We can’t make any “final judgments” on any grey area actions that have not yet occurred, and we will not speculate on all possible grey area scenarios and their outcomes. In general, please make sure that you are at your computer and playing your game. Ultimately, it is of utmost important to us that each character being played in Guild Wars is being operated by an actual person.

We know this doesn’t provide a definitive rule that covered all possible scenarios, but still hope this helps your understanding of “helping one play” versus “playing for you” and what we would consider acceptable.

The rules about this are almost the same in gw1 and gw2. I dont think there will be a better answer from A-net.

@jimthev

We will have to agree to disagree. I don’t think ANet try to detect anyone with software that come with keyboard/mice and ban people when they found such program installed. I have more faith in ANet than that.

As I said, I have been playing with my G15 since beta and I am still playing everyday. I do not know how they determine who is botting and using macros, but I am sure it is not just by gaming keyboard/mice software since a huge percentage of gamers use such hardware.