Guild Wars 2

Vyx.8607:

I do have tools in place to watch the ‘mass voters’. At this point I would like to try to give the system a shot and simply see what happens then adjust from there. My ‘saving grace’ is that there is nothing that up/downvotes do to the system that is permanent. Everything that is hidden can be made visible again.

Reasonable. Then you turn into someone moderating the moderation. It could work if people who abuse the system are given warnings then booted if they continue to abuse the system.

Vyx.8607:

I do have tools in place to watch the ‘mass voters’. At this point I would like to try to give the system a shot and simply see what happens then adjust from there. My ‘saving grace’ is that there is nothing that up/downvotes do to the system that is permanent. Everything that is hidden can be made visible again.

I guess I’m willing to give downvote moderation a try, so long as we can change it later if it becomes a problem.

So the next question is this:

Can you make two separate sections, one group moderated, and one with no moderation? Bonus points if you call them “Carebear Land” and “Troll Land.”

A forum where there is NO moderation – Thats what i want. Except for spams.

titanlectro.5029:

Can you make two separate sections, one group moderated, and one with no moderation? Bonus points if you call them “Carebear Land” and “Troll Land.”

While I can, I see no particular reason to split posts. Consider what we’re replacing here

“Dec 20, HoD vs SF vs FC”

Why should we have two copies of that post? One in ‘carebear land’ and the other in “troll land”.

I don’t see a reason to split the threads.

Splitting the threads up would just ruin it imo

Oozo.7856:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Oozo.7856:

Cogbyrn.7283:

LetoII.3782:

Oozo.7856:

but anything that goes too personal is moderated.

Therein lies the rub

That’s exactly what the bard would tell us, and I almost posted a very similar thing.

Isn’t any moderation carebear-style forums? Aren’t personal threats/boasts how real PvPers come and brag?

Don’t you think that if people generally kept their bravado to the game and less about the people, this sub-forum would have stayed open?

Either way, here’s another suggestion: any match-up threads should auto-format all posts to all caps.

I’m talking about things like someone hunting down your RL personal information and posting about it. I’m not talking about someone calling you a moron on a forum.

And no, real PvPers don’t threaten to kill your wife and kids.

The key is exactly where the line is drawn, not using two extremes as examples. That’s the rub.

So you can’t post any actually personal information, and you can’t make threats to a person. But you can call them names and insult them to your heart’s content, as long as those insults don’t mention anything RL about the person.

You might want to write those rules down, so no one complains about moderation later. You can put them in some sort of document, let’s say, a “Code of Conduct”, so people know what is and isn’t appropriate. That’ll insure they don’t complain, since it’ll be written down for them to read whenever they want.

How about this? You stay here and other people who can easily distinguish between things which are serious and things which are not serious can go somewhere else.

Best idea yet.

Vyx.8607:

titanlectro.5029:

Can you make two separate sections, one group moderated, and one with no moderation? Bonus points if you call them “Carebear Land” and “Troll Land.”

While I can, I see no particular reason to split posts. Consider what we’re replacing here

“Dec 20, HoD vs SF vs FC”

Why should we have two copies of that post? One in ‘carebear land’ and the other in “troll land”.

Because there are so many people begging for an unmoderated forum. If we keep it to one thread, then there will only be a moderated one.

titanlectro.5029:

Can you make two separate sections, one group moderated, and one with no moderation? Bonus points if you call them “Carebear Land” and “Troll Land.”

If the forums have the ability block/ignore posters that bother you, this is entirely unnecessary. Folks are able to take responsibility for blocking those that post things that bother them.

Jaxs.5830:

titanlectro.5029:

Can you make two separate sections, one group moderated, and one with no moderation? Bonus points if you call them “Carebear Land” and “Troll Land.”

If the forums have the ability block/ignore posters that bother you, this is entirely unnecessary. Folks are able to take responsibility for blocking those that post things that bother them.

This risks the thread becoming almost unreadable as each person has their own “version” of the conversation, with a different number of participants.

Lets say three “trolls” dominate the thread (which lets be honest is pretty likely). If someone blocks those trolls, then they have no idea what everyone is responding too. Or if you only blocked one troll, you would be completely lost. You cannot parse up a single thread like that and expect it to make sense.

I’d rather give those three trolls their own place, so the people who chose to block them still have a place to speak.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Jaxs.5830:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Jaxs.5830:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

At least Anet had standards the Mods had to follow. With fansite forums, players themselves do the moderating. So if a fansite Mod had grudge against, say Black Gate, he could restrict them all.

Yes because ANET had no biases….

Prove they have biases, if you would. When you don’t, I’ll be over here, watching you not prove anything.

Also, nice bias.

Post a constructive post on the moderation system and how it could be changed for the better and then count how long it takes for it to be removed.

Also, thank you for stalking me, it makes me feel warm and cuddly inside.

I didn’t even look at the name, I just saw an unjustified post that remains unjustified.
… blah blah blah…

Does this mean you are not going to try it?

titanlectro.5029:

Jaxs.5830:

titanlectro.5029:

Can you make two separate sections, one group moderated, and one with no moderation? Bonus points if you call them “Carebear Land” and “Troll Land.”

If the forums have the ability block/ignore posters that bother you, this is entirely unnecessary. Folks are able to take responsibility for blocking those that post things that bother them.

This risks the thread becoming almost unreadable as each person has their own “version” of the conversation, with a different number of participants.

Lets say three “trolls” dominate the thread (which lets be honest is pretty likely). If someone blocks those trolls, then they have no idea what everyone is responding too. Or if you only blocked one troll, you would be completely lost. You cannot parse up a single thread like that and expect it to make sense.

I’d rather give those three trolls their own place, so the people who chose to block them still have a place to speak.

In most forums when a person is blocked, their message is simply collapsed, you still see a line that shows the post. If you find you cannot follow the conversation because you blocked someone, or you are feeling in the mood to read their post, you can simply expand their message block to read what they said in that case.

Bottom line if three people you blocked are dominating a conversation you probably have no interest in the conversation anyways. In my experience this is actually not that common.

How about this, slightly like the slashdot system for filtering, above each thread is a ‘top comments’ link. (threshold TBD, right now it’s “overall positive rating”), those who just want to glance at the highest rated material can click that link.

Ex: Click http://www.gw2wvw.net/node/2 then look at the top where it says “View Top Comments for Site discussion” and click that. New page which is a filtered subset of the comments based on votes. Yes, it is currently a rather disjointed set of comments, but this is more aimed at ‘let me read at a glance what valued comments are saying and then let me respond". Currently it’s ordered by votes, depending on its usage I may change that over to by post time.

In this way we have a pseudo “moderated” and “unmoderated” in the same thread.

Vyx.8607:

How about this, slightly like the slashdot system for filtering, above each thread is a ‘top comments’ link. (threshold TBD, right now it’s “overall positive rating”), those who just want to glance at the highest rated material can click that link.

Ex: Click http://www.gw2wvw.net/node/2 then look at the top where it says “View Top Comments for Site discussion” and click that. New page which is a filtered subset of the comments based on votes. Yes, it is currently a rather disjointed set of comments, but this is more aimed at ‘let me read at a glance what valued comments are saying and then let me respond". Currently it’s ordered by votes, depending on its usage I may change that over to by post time.

While that might be a nice ‘quick glance’ at conversation, kinda like a news feed. I doubt I would personally use it because I would rather follow a conversation rather than what other people view as ‘valued’ and I am not sure how that changes anything in the moderated vs unmoderated debate.

My opinion is still allow a block/ignore feature. Use your down vote system, but have it use the block/ignore code instead of move/delete based on an individuals user settings for threshold of down votes. So if my setting is 5, which could be the default, then anything over 5 gets collapsed as if I had ignored the user.

Might be too complex to start, ie make sure the forums are being used before you invest time, but I think it would work pretty good.

Will keep in mind, as you said, if we actually use the forum.

A slashdot like system collapsing comments is somewhat extensive of a modification and also is a higher cost to the underlying database which decreases performance overall.

As a stately representative of ‘Troll land’ on gw2wvw.net I have to say that the rules should be simple;

• Down voting does not exist, no posts will be hidden/removed
• Upvoting should be in place, for all the true top lels.
• Moderation ONLY for things deemed illegal/unsavory in western society and spam e.g. CP or Gore are illegal and unsavory. And it will be restricted to these things.
• 1 community moderator from each server to be voted by that server if possible.
• NSFW +18 waver when entering forum

That is all

Tricare.2946:

Jaxs.5830:

Virtute.8251:

Answer: Josh “grouch” Davis is a GW2Guru employee whom now works for ArenaNet.

So ANET hired Josh. Josh convinced them to axe the matchup forums expecting everyone to go to gw2guru. Josh gets big kickback. ANET still controls our forum posting through gw2guru.

All makes sense now…

Lol this had me laughing. It’s a conspiracy!!!

I laughed, too. In pointing out Josh, I only meant that going to GW2Guru will not allow us to escape ANet public relations desires. They have their thumb in that pie.

The great thing about the official forums is that everyone knows where it is, if you’re looking for it, you can’t miss it. It has new players popping in to read and post all the time. Although the over moderation has been a bit of a problem, but in recent times it has been pretty laid back which is good.

The problem with moving to another forum such as guildwars2guru, is that you’re going to have a much narrower player base that will post. It will basically be the same handful of people posting over and over. Which is nice, but it certainly won’t be the same as it is now.

You aren’t going to get the dramas, scandals, meltdowns, conspiracies on a much more select group of posters ,compared to the very broad one that we have here.

But there isn’t really much other choice. It’s a very disappointing that arenanet are shunning the WvW community once again. Closing down this forum will not be healthy for the game in the long term.

Virtute.8251:

Tricare.2946:

Jaxs.5830:

Virtute.8251:

Answer: Josh “grouch” Davis is a GW2Guru employee whom now works for ArenaNet.

So ANET hired Josh. Josh convinced them to axe the matchup forums expecting everyone to go to gw2guru. Josh gets big kickback. ANET still controls our forum posting through gw2guru.

All makes sense now…

Lol this had me laughing. It’s a conspiracy!!!

I laughed, too. In pointing out Josh, I only meant that going to GW2Guru will not allow us to escape ANet public relations desires. They have their thumb in that pie.

I put my tin hat on before writing it.

Some important points to remember

1. Down voting must never exist but
2. There must be an ignore button
3. Upvoting should have little impact
4. There must be moderation on matters stated above. No jokes based on race,religion or sex. Basically no punches bellow the belt.
5. Any changes to moderation must be based on the moderators and a thread started to gather views from the public
6. 2 community moderators per thread who are chilled relaxed and voted by the community
7. Avatar must include .gif ab ibility.
8. Full sig. customization.
9. In forum voting bars

A TOS example from http://www.postcount.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?21-Guild-Wars

More on their site

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GW2G is good but in my opinion too harshly moderated (although it might be more light since many of those moderators moved to this forum?).

Anyway, I guess it’s going to be GW2G seeing how it’s already an established website with a large community base, and how many of the people posting here already have an account there from before these forums were launched.

And yes… Avatars… And signatures…

How I have missed thee…

EFWinters.5421:

GW2G is good but in my opinion too harshly moderated (although it might be more light since many of those moderators moved to this forum?).

Anyway, I guess it’s going to be GW2G seeing how it’s already an established website with a large community base, and how many of the people posting here already have an account there from before these forums were launched.

And yes… Avatars… And signatures…

How I have missed thee…

How bad is the moderation at GW2Guru ? Anyone knows?

Fuzzion.2504:

EFWinters.5421:

GW2G is good but in my opinion too harshly moderated (although it might be more light since many of those moderators moved to this forum?).

Anyway, I guess it’s going to be GW2G seeing how it’s already an established website with a large community base, and how many of the people posting here already have an account there from before these forums were launched.

And yes… Avatars… And signatures…

How I have missed thee…

How bad is the moderation at GW2Guru ? Anyone knows?

Take here. Multiply by 2 or 3. Welcome to guru forums! It’s bad. Most sites that want to make money have mods who are huge into censorship to justify their jobs. Like here, respond to a question, like I am doing, might get infracted for being off-topic. No way to know anymore.

So where ever we land, it has to be where money is not the prime objective of those who run the site and anything that has to do with curse, I strongly suggest you turn the other way and run.

ptitminou.6489:

Fuzzion.2504:

EFWinters.5421:

GW2G is good but in my opinion too harshly moderated (although it might be more light since many of those moderators moved to this forum?).

Anyway, I guess it’s going to be GW2G seeing how it’s already an established website with a large community base, and how many of the people posting here already have an account there from before these forums were launched.

And yes… Avatars… And signatures…

How I have missed thee…

How bad is the moderation at GW2Guru ? Anyone knows?

Take here. Multiply by 2 or 3. Welcome to guru forums! It’s bad. Most sites that want to make money have mods who are huge into censorship to justify their jobs. Like here, respond to a question, like I am doing, might get infracted for being off-topic. No way to know anymore.

So where ever we land, it has to be where money is not the prime objective of those who run the site and anything that has to do with curse, I strongly suggest you turn the other way and run.

Then we are moving to gw2wvw.net

I’ll see all of you at gw2www.net next week!

Avatar of Belle.9623:

I’ll see all of you at gw2www.net next week!

Same I have already moved there. Check out my attractive avatar

Fuzzion.2504:

Avatar of Belle.9623:

I’ll see all of you at gw2www.net next week!

Same I have already moved there. Check out my attractive avatar

Meow meow.

Btw, I’m User 69. It’s destiny. This site is meant to be.

CuddleStrike.8215:

I’m totally okay with this site already… Hopefully everyone goes to the same place

Aye. It already has 48 new users within 2 days. And the host of the site is listening to the community on how to best moderate the site. I though guru was good but folks here said its over moderated.

We didn’t even give Guru a chance!

Renny.6571:

We didn’t even give Guru a chance!

Shut up Meg.

Cogbyrn.7283:

They created a specific sub-forum for WvW match-ups for the WvW community. The WvW community proceeded to shatter the Code of Conduct into a million burning pieces, then attempt to desecrate each piece individually. I was here posting in match-up threads fairly regularly a month or two after release. Very little has changed, except maybe that the average amount of vitriol per post has seemingly increased.

The disappointing part is that the WvW community blames ANet for “overmoderation”, when the community itself refused to abide by the rules of someone else’s house. Take some responsibility. Whether or not you agree with the rules themselves is completely irrelevant, because in this place, they aren’t your rules to write.

This forum is massively overmoderated. Threads get deleted or closed because someone doesn’t stay on topic in his post. That’s not just stupid.

If you write something about the matchup and add a “merry christmas to everyone” in that post you get an infraction. If more than one user wishes the community in the same thread merry christmas or chinese new year or something like that the whole thread gets deleted or locked.
I’m here for over a year and I never saw a really abusive or offensive post in the matchup thread which would justify an infraction or a lock.
Most infractions here a for stupid things like offtopic or people have a short chat about a 1v2 or posting pictures. (and some videos of caught exploiters which anet still fails to ban – this are at the only understandable infractions)
So yeah, this forum is massivly overmoderated.

Your post was removed because it was a reply to a post that was recently deleted.

Due to your post referring to an already deleted post, your post is deleted aswell.

¹

Please refrain from creating off-topic posts or posts meant to derail a thread.

²

Our goal is to make sure the forums are a safe, constructive, and welcoming place for all of our community members. Inappropriate text, images, or photos which are sexist are not allowed.

³

Please do not engage in personal attacks or character assassination against forum members.

¹ I posted some match related things and added “So, everyone has a TESO beta invite?”

² I told someone that it’s stupid to flame guilds for losing a gvg if your own guild doesn’t show up for gvg.

³ “You can watch the video of the hacker on a video platform of your choice”

5€ that I will get an infraction and this post gets deleted.

Cya on gw2wvw.net!

Already signed up to them I hope everyone moves there too!

NONE OF THE ABOVE

Fuzzion.2504:

EFWinters.5421:

GW2G is good but in my opinion too harshly moderated (although it might be more light since many of those moderators moved to this forum?).

Anyway, I guess it’s going to be GW2G seeing how it’s already an established website with a large community base, and how many of the people posting here already have an account there from before these forums were launched.

And yes… Avatars… And signatures…

How I have missed thee…

How bad is the moderation at GW2Guru ? Anyone knows?

Very bad during beta when most of the people there transitioned to the official forums. It might be better now. Dunno.

Site is live and evolving. Your inputs are critical to making this site what you want it to be! Thanks for your support!

If gw2wvw.net is going to be completely unmoderated, then no thank you.

titanlectro.5029:

If gw2wvw.net is going to be completely unmoderated, then no thank you.

It is moderated. But limited to things like racism, nude pics, etc, you know, the general things that are punches below the belt.

I heard pot will be registering over there.

SonofNoob.3102:

I heard pot will be registering over there.

Ascii as well.

Fuzzion.2504:

titanlectro.5029:

If gw2wvw.net is going to be completely unmoderated, then no thank you.

It is moderated. But limited to things like racism, nude pics, etc, you know, the general things that are punches below the belt.

Otherwise known as unmoderated…

Fuzzion.2504:

It is moderated. But limited to things like racism, nude pics, etc, you know, the general things that are punches below the belt.

Nude pics? What about avatars? Are they included in this? Went on to my current weeks match-up thread and there was a lude picture as an avatar that Mrs.Buns wasnt at all happy with, shouldnt they not be allowed to have such an avatar according to the rule set?

Oozo.7856:

Vyx.8607:

I do have tools in place to watch the ‘mass voters’. At this point I would like to try to give the system a shot and simply see what happens then adjust from there. My ‘saving grace’ is that there is nothing that up/downvotes do to the system that is permanent. Everything that is hidden can be made visible again.

Reasonable. Then you turn into someone moderating the moderation. It could work if people who abuse the system are given warnings then booted if they continue to abuse the system.

what is with the seeming obsession with moderating a forum?

Any solution will have negatives: you will either have to listen to bickering children and humanities lowest IQ people prattle on for pages (because they actually think themselves smart), or you end up in the forum equivalent of a police state where a person or small group chooses what you cant read.

Since:
a) saying anything of substance on the internet will anger 100+ people
b) moderators never listen when people complain a forum is broken (case in point – this forum)
c) any solution will have negatives
d) the crowd is the biggest idiot of them all

then I suggest we go with the negative that treats us like adults where we make the decision for ourselves who/what to read and what to discard, and that is one without moderators. Moderators eventually get delusions of godhood. Im a big boy, and I for one don’t want a small group of people deleting posts every time they get upset – and when competition is involved, that is exactly what is going to happen in a voted system. 90% of americans have a skin only a few Angstroms thick, we dont need those kind of folks as censors.

In the last 6, the sites numbers have doubled and the number of post quadrupled.

Be Free. Exit the Matrix.

Since the forums are mostly players complaining about other servers, I say Anet should make it so that Map chat can be read by all servers on the BL.

We know the reason they are closing down just the WvW forums is because the mods cant keep up with all the complaining. So let us complain directly the other enemy players and you wont need to moderate these forums as much.

I mean come on, how much upkeep does a forum need? The forums are bugged anyway, hard to believe but true, so I think this option is better.

titanlectro.5029:

If gw2wvw.net is going to be completely unmoderated, then no thank you.

I would ask two questions. 1) Who do you trust to be fair in moderation? 2) Would that ‘sane’ person(s) want to be watching thread after thread for dozens of new comments an hour.

‘Good’ moderation requires an unbiased person without a dog in the fight as well as nearly 24 hr coverage (or a considerable delay in reaction occurs). I like many others have a job so hours are limited and as of right now, I don’t trust anyone on this board to hand over the moderation reigns.

I would be a great moderator!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Radioactive.1248:

I would be a great moderator!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The amount of exclamation marks you use says otherwise.