Guild Wars 2

Why do only 3 of the professions have downed skills that AVOID all stomps? While the rest of the classes can be finished off with stability, stealth, or other means?

If you have skills while downed, they need to be balanced and not forgotten. However, they seem to be ignoring them.

Thief…. mesmer…ele?

Can be countered with timing/bluffing though

Natronix.9827:

Thief…. mesmer…ele?

Can be countered with timing/bluffing though

That isn’t a a counter, that is a vain hope they lack the skill to know how to appropriately use their downed skills.

yeah, i agree that it is a bit unfair. Although warriors does have that revive thingy, which, if they can mange to use it, is very good and guardian got that AOE knockback, which again, is parried by stability. Rangers are OP underwater, due to pet healing them to full health no matter what, but since the underwater aspect of the game has been all but removed from WvW, that is a very worthless “pro” in a long list of con’s.

But the rest is utterly screwd.

3 things should be done;
Cannot stomp from stealth
Downed state makes you immune to blind and daze
Thief, Mesmer and Ele need to get their Downed #2/3 skills nerfed. Ele isn’t the worst of them, just annoying, but thief and mesmer ones are too strong overall.

Prysin.8542:

3 things should be done;
Cannot stomp from stealth
Downed state makes you immune to blind and daze
Thief, Mesmer and Ele need to get their Downed #2/3 skills nerfed. Ele isn’t the worst of them, just annoying, but thief and mesmer ones are too strong overall.

Ele is by far the most annoying because of how their skill allows then to enter portals into keeps and towers.

If you remove stomping from stealth, you may as well remove the ability to stop with immunity and stability. A player who is in stealth to stomp has wasted skills or initiative that could otherwise save them or their teammates at some other point.

Bubbles, pulls, and interrupts still work through stealth anyway, so if you get stomped after using your downed skills the stealth doesn’t really matter.

Prysin.8542:

yeah, i agree that it is a bit unfair. Although warriors does have that revive thingy, which, if they can mange to use it, is very good and guardian got that AOE knockback, which again, is parried by stability. Rangers are OP underwater, due to pet healing them to full health no matter what, but since the underwater aspect of the game has been all but removed from WvW, that is a very worthless “pro” in a long list of con’s.

But the rest is utterly screwd.

3 things should be done;
Cannot stomp from stealth
Downed state makes you immune to blind and daze
Thief, Mesmer and Ele need to get their Downed #2/3 skills nerfed. Ele isn’t the worst of them, just annoying, but thief and mesmer ones are too strong overall.

I like stealth stomping. I can do something against it. I can’t do anything against stability, invulnerability, or any other immunity stomp.

Downed state shouldn’t make you immune to anything.

I can agree that downed skills for several classes need a rework. I believe the engineer has an ability that pulls someone to you. I don’t know about you but I don’t think I would really want to encourage my enemy getting closer when I’m downed.

If you’re an Engie, sealth stomping is ridiculous since our 1/2 skills are targeted, our 3 skill takes for friggin ever to charge. But then we all know Engie down skills are pretty bad, just because.

I don’t even bother to click anything on my necro when I’m down.

Prysin.8542:

Although warriors does have that revive thingy, which, if they can mange to use it, is very good

very good to get laughed at.

It was quite the surprise the first time I encountered it, both the revive as the death following.

As to the original post, from a being-downed perspective these are skills that usually only delay the inevitable. On occasion you can find a safe spot to teleport to and sometimes they forget all about you after using blinding powder, but usually downed → defeated anyway.

sazaw.1347:

I don’t even bother to click anything on my necro when I’m down.

same with my ranger. Unless i am underwater, or the enemy by some miracle forgets that im down, i dont even bother to use any skill. The #2, the AOE stun, is targeted and misses more often then it hits (yes, even when im not blinded)

Thieves can be countered by Shadowsteps too, just saying.

But anyways, I agree that the different downed-states are annoying.

Given the right class and abilities, every class should be stompabale with the first try.

Dee Jay.2460:

Given the right class and abilities, every class should be stompabale with the first try.

And everyone should equal oppotunities to avoid stomps. For me the fun from the rare moments that you manage to survive being downed far outweighs the annoyance when my opponent manages to avoid the stomp. I do think every class should have about equal chances to indeed avoid being stomped occasionally.

Dee Jay.2460:

Thieves can be countered by Shadowsteps too, just saying.

But anyways, I agree that the different downed-states are annoying.

Given the right class and abilities, every class should be stompabale with the first try.

Only if they blow their port too early. If you time it right, they just have to guess a random direction to blink, and hope they get lucky.

The 5 that can’t avoid stomps have secondary mechanics that allow them to res themselves if stomps are avoided. Except Engie, their downed state sucks.

So, radical idea: all classes have identical downstate abilities?

Would love to have been a fly on the wall when ANet was designing abilities and their counters.

They should remove the downed state from wvw and problem solve.

Is toxic for wvw and any pvp mode and only help to who are more. If you get killed, you are dead, no seconds chances.

Viking Jorun.5413:

The 5 that can’t avoid stomps have secondary mechanics that allow them to res themselves if stomps are avoided. Except Engie, their downed state sucks.

The fact is though, if someone starts to stomp those classes with stability or immune, they are dead. They never even get to hit #3. (also necro #3 is a well)

Mesmer downed stealth is weak as hell compared to Thief which is just mildly annoying.

Elementalist mistform in downed state is downright abuse though. It should not be able to go into portals, nor be able to jump over walls.

Prysin.8542:

sazaw.1347:

I don’t even bother to click anything on my necro when I’m down.

same with my ranger. Unless i am underwater, or the enemy by some miracle forgets that im down, i dont even bother to use any skill. The #2, the AOE stun, is targeted and misses more often then it hits (yes, even when im not blinded)

You’re wasting a good opportunity, then. Between 2 pets and the ranger’s own interrupt, I find I can rez myself in a 1v1 about a third of the time.

I use a drakehound and wolf, so assuming everything goes the way I want (which doesn’t happen every time of course), I’ll immobilize the stomper before they get to me, dog will KD, wolf will KD, wolf will fear, I’ll interrupt with Lightning Strike.

Prysin.8542:

Thief, Mesmer and Ele need to get their Downed #2/3 skills nerfed. Ele isn’t the worst of them, just annoying, but thief and mesmer ones are too strong overall.

Mesmer downed #2 needs to be nerfed? AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA dies laughing
That skill gets me KILLED in WvW more often than it gets me saved. Even if it doesn’t port me into an AoE, it only delays getting stomped for like 1 second. Fun factoid: if you start to stomp a mesmer, and he/she uses his #2, and you restart the stomp immediately, he/she STILL won’t have time to use his #3.

Fun factoid number 2: When the mesmer uses downed #2, he is the 2nd one to appear. The clone shows up first, then the mesmer.

In the end, mesmer downed state is fairly pathetic against any player with 1/2 a brain.

Thief ones are mostly just annoying because they move further…but even then, it’s just a stall. And the ONLY reason the ele one is “OP” is because they can move into keeps while downed.

just remove the downed state all together from competitive game mode (spvp, wvw)
a net give too much mercy on bad player. downed state also give many advantage for a group since 2 people ressing a downed player = guaranteed rally (although i find this rather funny, i just spam aoe on the downed and i get 3 downed player)

I can’t believe people still think that ANet will remove the downed state. Here’s a bit of insight:
The downed state encourages team play and is not a solo mechanic.

There you have it. Rely on your team mates and stop whining

Viking Jorun.5413:

I can’t believe people still think that ANet will remove the downed state. Here’s a bit of insight:
The downed state encourages team play and is not a solo mechanic.

There you have it. Rely on your team mates and stop whining

It actually encourages zerging, which is not really all that much like ‘team play’.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/favoritism

Favoritism- the practice of giving preferential treatment to a person or persons.

That’s right, it is called Favoritism

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Balance

Balance- To bring into or keep in equal or satisfying proportion or harmony

Balance?

Where ?

Balance Does Not FAVOR!!

Favoritism Is Not Balance!!

Guild Wars 2 centers around Favoritism and Imbalance

Surprise !!

Burnfall.9573:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/favoritism

Favoritism- the practice of giving preferential treatment to a person or persons.

That’s right, it is called Favoritism

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Balance

Balance- To bring into or keep in equal or satisfying proportion or harmony

Balance?

Where ?

Balance Does Not FAVOR!!

Favoritism Is Not Balance!!

Guild Wars 2 centers around Favoritism and Imbalance

Surprise !!

Hah. Burnfall, you old troll. Have you ever played a competitive game which was perfectly balanced? Come back to the thief forums so we can keep you from posting this kind of stuff and rather argue with you on whether thieves are OP or not.

Viking Jorun.5413:

I can’t believe people still think that ANet will remove the downed state. Here’s a bit of insight:
The downed state encourages team play and is not a solo mechanic.

There you have it. Rely on your team mates and stop whining

Not asking for downstate to be removed. Just balanced.

Hard to balance in all game mode.
Ranger’s down is considered OP in PvE, but useless in zerg;
mist form is really not that usefull in PvE, but is OP in WvW (get in tower, get to reach main bus to be raised/get out of AoE’s).
I would love all #2’s (stomp delayer) to be effective no matter the state of foes (stability, stealth, etc.)
The only one that really doesn’t look all that balanced (like, when is it usefull?) are the engi’s ones….

Ele and Thief are really the only tough ones.

Mesmers get a giant arrow telling you which one to stomp. So theirs sucks IMO.

Necro fear is sometimes annoying.

Guardian also sometimes annoying but manageable especially since stability negates it.

Warrior if left down long enough is interesting but otherwise easy stomp.

Engineer got screwed.

Ranger if a pet can bring them up in WvW it is a minor miracle. Not as bad as the engi but close.

All that said, I would probably revamp the Engineer and make the Warrior/Ranger secondary come up much faster. I would certainly remove the arrow pointing to the right mesmer and maybe add one more clone to make it interesting. Maybe a very slight tune to Necro/Guardian.

Want to trade my thiefs downed shadowstep and 2 s stealth to … pretty much anything other classes have, so i can actually make an impact to fight when im downed.

my own thoughts are:

Eles and thieves have good downed skills because they go down so easily!

Mesmer down skill is pretty bad. I’ve seen it interrupt more revives than stomps lol

Ranger is great downed, still doing lots of DPS and 2-3 interrupts and a major heal. And underwater? Don’t even bother trying to finish him.

Guardian’s is great because it doesn’t require a target and is AoE, and because usually a guardian can make you use your stability during the fight, leaving you with none left to stomp with.

Warrior 2 skill sucks because it requires a target and is easily avoided, however if you don’t stomp them quickly, Vengeance is a really dangerous skill. Just yesterday I was fighting a 2v2 on point and all 4 of us went down lol. So I vengeance’d, stomped them, rallying my ally and myself. In the next match I went down and used vengeance to get 2 teammate revives before I died.

Necro’s is kind of same as guardian’s but I find it easier to evade somehow. That #3 well can do a kittenload of damage though. But for some reason I see a lot of necros not even using their #2 skill. I think they are assuming I have stability when a lot of time I don’t >.< (shhh)

Engineers…. well…. they’re so kitten hard to kill on point that I’m glad their downed skill isn’t also strong.

What bothers me the most is playing a toon that requires a target and being helplessly stomped by an invisible enemy, and when a thief shadow refuge’s downed players to prevent stomps. I know where the person is, so why does it matter if they are stealthed??? I should still get the stomp option when I stand on their body.

Before you balance downed state, why don’t you rebalance UP state first.

Guardians and Warriors — so powerful while walking, isn’t it fine to have them suck while on the ground?

Eles have the short end of the stick, give the Eles a bone sometimes by giving them the best downed state skill. It’s hard enough to stay standing as an Ele.

I’d like to believe the downed state skills are like that to balance out how terrible some of those classes are while standing.

Solstice.1097:

Mesmer down skill is pretty bad. I’ve seen it interrupt more revives than stomps lol

This a million times over. Also, the mesmer down #2 tends to port the players into the direction of MOST danger. However, mesmer down #3 is fairly decent…if you’re facing a player that is clueless enough to actually let you get it off.

Karolis.4261:

Want to trade my thiefs downed shadowstep and 2 s stealth to … pretty much anything other classes have, so i can actually make an impact to fight when im downed.

Done. You can have necro downed state.

Enjoy not being able to counter a stability stomp at the cost of a long cast time single target fear.

And you mesmers, it may port you in the wrong direction, and it may mess up people trying to revive you, but the bottom line is that it at least is a 100% stomp prevention with a target. You hit it because you have to, and even if they have stability you avoid that stomp. The bottom tier, get dead in that scenario.

If I could choose port into group of 5 and be invisible for 2 seconds over just die…. I would take that.

The pet revive is the mostly unforgiving one because killing the pet or interrupting it doesn’t stop it from healing a ranger.

Downed state is great for PvP. It also works pretty darn well in small WvW and SpvP.

But it is just oddly designed for larger scale WvW (which I think was never anticipated frankly to be so zergy large).

Roaming, I never mind a downed state. It adds some urgency to finish a fight and some “come back ability”. I find it very satisfying. Get bigger and you too often get odd things of a zerg acting like zombies coming in waves of refreshed players.

While fluffy in design, the skills are completely unequal. Certain styles of group fighting clearly favor one set of skills over another. What is more or less fair when 1v1 or fighting a mob falls apart in mass zerging.

I do think this is a much more difficult thing to balance at this point and expectations should be managed accordingly. Taking out downed state in WvW and just using the ability to res might be the short term solution. It is a GREAT concept that just doesn’t scale well in zerg fights.

Charak.9761:

The pet revive is the mostly unforgiving one because killing the pet or interrupting it doesn’t stop it from healing a ranger.

When my pet is dead, it stays there but does not heal me anymore…

Not sure about interrupt, but if you manage to push/pull the pet far enough from the ranger, it stops healing… Just comes back and stand there.

plus, if my pet has 10% life when I call him to heal me, it does not get more life, has to be totally dead to be fully healed – and for some reasons, changing pets when downed is not always working

The only one that drives me nuts is thief. It’s tough to down a thief that is spending most of their time in stealth and in a small group fight they are next to impossible to stomp. I swear I’ve had fights where the thief teleports, uncloaks, I immediately run over to him, and he teleports again before I can stomp him.

On the other hand, I don’t think engineer has a #2 skill.

Thief downstate can be countered by anyone with an instacast port.

Mesmers and elementalists are the two downstates that have no counterplay on the first stomp attempt unless the mesmer or elementalist uses their 2 ability way too early and screws themselves.

Oozo.7856:

Thief downstate can be countered by anyone with an instacast port.

Mesmers and elementalists are the two downstates that have no counterplay on the first stomp attempt unless the mesmer or elementalist uses their 2 ability way too early and screws themselves.

Stealth counters mesmer actually. If they can’t target, they can’t use it.

You never had like a thief that just seems like they’re in stealth forever after downing? Like I swear half the thieves we down are like in stealth for somethin like 5+ seconds while we beat on their downed corpse. Maybe it’s stealth stackin? I dunno, thieves are a mystery to me.

styx.7294:

Oozo.7856:

Thief downstate can be countered by anyone with an instacast port.

Mesmers and elementalists are the two downstates that have no counterplay on the first stomp attempt unless the mesmer or elementalist uses their 2 ability way too early and screws themselves.

Stealth counters mesmer actually. If they can’t target, they can’t use it.

You never had like a thief that just seems like they’re in stealth forever after downing? Like I swear half the thieves we down are like in stealth for somethin like 5+ seconds while we beat on their downed corpse. Maybe it’s stealth stackin? I dunno, thieves are a mystery to me.

Mesmer downed state 2 requires a target? Didn’t know that. So, it’s just elementalist that has no counterplay then (unless they screw up).

Unless they drop a stealth-house right before they die, thief is a guaranteed stomp as long as your port is up and you get on them before downed state three is up.

Oozo.7856:

styx.7294:

Oozo.7856:

Thief downstate can be countered by anyone with an instacast port.

Mesmers and elementalists are the two downstates that have no counterplay on the first stomp attempt unless the mesmer or elementalist uses their 2 ability way too early and screws themselves.

Stealth counters mesmer actually. If they can’t target, they can’t use it.

You never had like a thief that just seems like they’re in stealth forever after downing? Like I swear half the thieves we down are like in stealth for somethin like 5+ seconds while we beat on their downed corpse. Maybe it’s stealth stackin? I dunno, thieves are a mystery to me.

Mesmer downed state 2 requires a target? Didn’t know that. So, it’s just elementalist that has no counterplay then (unless they screw up).

Unless they drop a stealth-house right before they die, thief is a guaranteed stomp as long as your port is up and you get on them before downed state three is up.

EDIT: Someone told me I was wrong, as I was discounting targetless ports. Comment retracted. I was considering mesmer blink as a random counter as opposed to a direct move-to-the-target teleport.

Too bad there isn’t a community coordinator or someone that could talk to use about issues like this.

Eugenides.1274:

Ele is by far the most annoying because of how their skill allows then to enter portals into keeps and towers.

imobilize

I agree with this.

I’ve had thieves downed 1v1 that come out of downed stealth ALIVE again

they had such high regen and low HP that they self-rezzed before it was possible to stomp

Oozo.7856:

styx.7294:

Oozo.7856:

Thief downstate can be countered by anyone with an instacast port.

Mesmers and elementalists are the two downstates that have no counterplay on the first stomp attempt unless the mesmer or elementalist uses their 2 ability way too early and screws themselves.

Stealth counters mesmer actually. If they can’t target, they can’t use it.

You never had like a thief that just seems like they’re in stealth forever after downing? Like I swear half the thieves we down are like in stealth for somethin like 5+ seconds while we beat on their downed corpse. Maybe it’s stealth stackin? I dunno, thieves are a mystery to me.

Mesmer downed state 2 requires a target? Didn’t know that. So, it’s just elementalist that has no counterplay then (unless they screw up).

Unless they drop a stealth-house right before they die, thief is a guaranteed stomp as long as your port is up and you get on them before downed state three is up.

Yeah, like any clone skill, you need a target.

That’s way too many conditions for thieves to go right. Not many classes carry teleports and sometimes you gotta use ‘em for things other than stomps. On the other hand, there’s a million ways to deal with the interrupt skills (thief is best at that too, oddly enough).

styx.7294:

Oozo.7856:

styx.7294:

Oozo.7856:

Thief downstate can be countered by anyone with an instacast port.

Mesmers and elementalists are the two downstates that have no counterplay on the first stomp attempt unless the mesmer or elementalist uses their 2 ability way too early and screws themselves.

Stealth counters mesmer actually. If they can’t target, they can’t use it.

You never had like a thief that just seems like they’re in stealth forever after downing? Like I swear half the thieves we down are like in stealth for somethin like 5+ seconds while we beat on their downed corpse. Maybe it’s stealth stackin? I dunno, thieves are a mystery to me.

Mesmer downed state 2 requires a target? Didn’t know that. So, it’s just elementalist that has no counterplay then (unless they screw up).

Unless they drop a stealth-house right before they die, thief is a guaranteed stomp as long as your port is up and you get on them before downed state three is up.

Yeah, like any clone skill, you need a target.

That’s way too many conditions for thieves to go right. Not many classes carry teleports and sometimes you gotta use ‘em for things other than stomps. On the other hand, there’s a million ways to deal with the interrupt skills (thief is best at that too, oddly enough).

Thieves have one of the best downed states for sure. I’m thinking of situations where you have downed players on both sides getting stomped.

Elem is top tier since there is absolutely no counterplay to secure the first stomp attempt. Thieves and mesmers after that since there is counterplay, but it’s limited and not as easy or as available as just simply throwing stability up.

Honestly, I’d like to see the downed state removed completely, and every trait in the trait line pertaining to the downed state replaced.

Downed state is fine for 5v5 group fights. It just doesn’t scale very well to larger WvW fights.