Guild Wars 2

here is the imbalance between condi and glass in a nutshell:

damage
condi and glass builds can output roughly equal DPS

mitigation
glass damage mitigated by by blocks, dodges, LOS blind, invulnerability i.e. endure pain
condi damage mitigated by condi removal skills. depends on class but fairly equal in mitigation options

survivability
condi builds have extremely high survivability
glass builds cannot
and here is the issue.

A full condi bomb build shouldn’t be able to also have 3k+ armor and 25k+ health and still be so effective

Opc.4718:

You know what’s the biggest condi spam culprit in a giant zerg fight around keeps and towers? Necro epidemic on the lord/champion, who will have every condition in the game stacked up on him, killing everyone the epidemic hits around him. It’s one little skill, on a relatively short cooldown, which is deadly even on an upleveled character.

I’ve rarely seen epidemic used in WvW after the patch that changed it to LOS.

Wells however…….

Solstice.1097:

A full condi bomb build shouldn’t be able to also have 3k+ armor and 25k+ health and still be so effective

Well warrior is warrior. They are op even if they won’t use condi spec. And need to remember that ascendedweapons give boost only power spec.

Condi is only as dangerous as you let it be. If you can cleanse yourself and pressure the person putting Condi on you its really not that bad.

the real problem comes down to Condi builds can have high survivability well still doing high Condi burst like damage. The reason behind this is Condi should have been an attrition like build and Condi damage really shouldn’t scale as well as it does but with the plethora of Condi removal in the game its to easy to negate the attrition like nature and so the Condi caster has to do high condition damage in a short time.

to solve this condition removal would need to take a Nerf and then Condi damage could be balanced better.

personally I wish conditions where tied more to direct damage and you made a choice between having +crit damage for bigger crit hits OR Condi damage to have lingering damage on a target OR you go bunkerish and have +Condi damage so your condition would do more but not near what it can get up to now so you would be more like killing your target thru attrition due to your high survivability.

Junkpile.7439:

Solstice.1097:

A full condi bomb build shouldn’t be able to also have 3k+ armor and 25k+ health and still be so effective

Well warrior is warrior. They are op even if they won’t use condi spec. And need to remember that ascendedweapons give boost only power spec.

think hes talking about necro.

and ascended armor doesnt mitigate condi, so by the 10th that wont be as big a deal

phys.7689:

Junkpile.7439:

Solstice.1097:

A full condi bomb build shouldn’t be able to also have 3k+ armor and 25k+ health and still be so effective

Well warrior is warrior. They are op even if they won’t use condi spec. And need to remember that ascendedweapons give boost only power spec.

think hes talking about necro.

and ascended armor doesnt mitigate condi, so by the 10th that wont be as big a deal

Condi necro who have over 3k armor? My necro have full rabid and only 2800 armor and i don’t even use fotm spec (which would give even less armor). I can make power necro spec which is effective and i still have same amount hp and armor.

Conditions are OP <10 and the reason is everyone and their mother puts out lots of junk conditions.

When the full zerker class puts out just as many conditions as the full condi class it creates a problem of “how do I remove the condi engineers poison/chill/burn instead of the glass warriors cripple/vuln/bleed?” Right now you can’t, right now condition removal has priorities, so some are always the very last to be removed (poison/immob).

If they just made condition removals random it would alleviate lots of problems for small scale fights.

Aten.8046:

Necromancer’s signet of spite (Inflict bleeding, blindness, crippled, poison, vulnerability, and weakness) aka one button to win, especially if u’re the victim and you’re outnumbered

I’m sorry I lol’d so hard at this…your freaking out about 2 stacks of bleed and a poison? GG man GG.

[sarcasm] So much dps AUTO WIN OP MLG!!!!!!! [/sarcasm]

Junkpile.7439:

phys.7689:

Junkpile.7439:

Solstice.1097:

A full condi bomb build shouldn’t be able to also have 3k+ armor and 25k+ health and still be so effective

Well warrior is warrior. They are op even if they won’t use condi spec. And need to remember that ascendedweapons give boost only power spec.

think hes talking about necro.

and ascended armor doesnt mitigate condi, so by the 10th that wont be as big a deal

Condi necro who have over 3k armor? My necro have full rabid and only 2800 armor and i don’t even use fotm spec (which would give even less armor). I can make power necro spec which is effective and i still have same amount hp and armor.

i stand corrected, though 2800 or 3000 still means you are mitigating massive amounts of dmg

Lurock Turoth.9085:

Aten.8046:

Necromancer’s signet of spite (Inflict bleeding, blindness, crippled, poison, vulnerability, and weakness) aka one button to win, especially if u’re the victim and you’re outnumbered

I’m sorry I lol’d so hard at this…your freaking out about 2 stacks of bleed and a poison? GG man GG.

[sarcasm] So much dps AUTO WIN OP MLG!!!!!!! [/sarcasm]

the point is that it blocks effective condi removal by putting so many different conditions at once, just getting stacks is useless without filler condi to block removal

Aberrant.6749:

In a large groups conditions get removed very quickly. They usually wind up dealing quite a bit less damage than direct damage (as morrolan pointed out).

+40% duration food is countered with the -40% duration food

That’s a kittenty argument.

Since when is every food supposed to have a counter-food?

Is there a counter for any other counter-food out there?

Food is supposed to be a bonus, a buff according to your play-style. And as a bonus, the 40% Condition duration is overpowered compared to others.

Single Conditions aren’t really an issue imo, but Condition bombing is. And currently every skill in the game seems to add some sort of Condition, mostly more.

Terravos.4059:

I’ve eaten 10k damage backstabs, while sittin at 1950 toughness….

While Conditions are nasty, don’t pretend Power Damage isn’t easily as nasty.

Cool. Warrior pin down would still hit you for 18k and impale for 12k. And the warrior would be sitting on 1950 thoughness as well.
The thing is, it isn’t power damage that’s nasty. It is power, crit damage and precision damage together that’s nasty. But, this comes at the expense of defence, unlike condi damage.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Terravos.4059:

I’ve eaten 10k damage backstabs, while sittin at 1950 toughness….

While Conditions are nasty, don’t pretend Power Damage isn’t easily as nasty.

Cool. Warrior pin down would still hit you for 18k and impale for 12k. And the warrior would be sitting on 1950 thoughness as well.

both can be unacceptable one thing being op isn’t justified by something else being op.

Samhayn.2385:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Terravos.4059:

I’ve eaten 10k damage backstabs, while sittin at 1950 toughness….

While Conditions are nasty, don’t pretend Power Damage isn’t easily as nasty.

Cool. Warrior pin down would still hit you for 18k and impale for 12k. And the warrior would be sitting on 1950 thoughness as well.

both can be unacceptable one thing being op isn’t justified by something else being op.

Yes, of course. Just trying to point out that condition specs can deal compareable damage to zerker specs while still being very tanky. It’s not really that alone that’s problem with condi specs, it’s also that many condition procs are generally difficult (doom) or impossible (dhoomsfire) to avoid.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Samhayn.2385:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Terravos.4059:

I’ve eaten 10k damage backstabs, while sittin at 1950 toughness….

While Conditions are nasty, don’t pretend Power Damage isn’t easily as nasty.

Cool. Warrior pin down would still hit you for 18k and impale for 12k. And the warrior would be sitting on 1950 thoughness as well.

both can be unacceptable one thing being op isn’t justified by something else being op.

Yes, of course. Just trying to point out that condition specs can deal compareable damage to zerker specs while still being very tanky. It’s not really that alone that’s problem with condi specs, it’s also that many condition procs are generally difficult (doom) or impossible (dhoomsfire) to avoid.

they still wont be as bursty and subject to cleansing, even by sources other than the target. conditions need time to kill, thats what you trade for supposed tankiness.

phys.7689:

Lurock Turoth.9085:

Aten.8046:

Necromancer’s signet of spite (Inflict bleeding, blindness, crippled, poison, vulnerability, and weakness) aka one button to win, especially if u’re the victim and you’re outnumbered

I’m sorry I lol’d so hard at this…your freaking out about 2 stacks of bleed and a poison? GG man GG.

[sarcasm] So much dps AUTO WIN OP MLG!!!!!!! [/sarcasm]

the point is that it blocks effective condi removal by putting so many different conditions at once, just getting stacks is useless without filler condi to block removal

exactly! If at least the condi removal system were smart and gave priority to the most hurting condition, but no… I want to cleanse 8 stack of bleeding and instead it cleanses 1 of vulnerability…

Dee Jay.2460:

Aberrant.6749:

In a large groups conditions get removed very quickly. They usually wind up dealing quite a bit less damage than direct damage (as morrolan pointed out).

+40% duration food is countered with the -40% duration food

That’s a kittenty argument.

Since when is every food supposed to have a counter-food?

Is there a counter for any other counter-food out there?

Food is supposed to be a bonus, a buff according to your play-style. And as a bonus, the 40% Condition duration is overpowered compared to others.

Single Conditions aren’t really an issue imo, but Condition bombing is. And currently every skill in the game seems to add some sort of Condition, mostly more.

Agree. + Rare Veggie Pizza is around 8 silver nowadays, if u want to counter it with lemograss u have to spend almost 30 silver (1 silver /min, is the hotline of gw food!)
Ok u can use pultry and leek soup but is 36% reduction.

Aten.8046:

phys.7689:

Lurock Turoth.9085:

Aten.8046:

Necromancer’s signet of spite (Inflict bleeding, blindness, crippled, poison, vulnerability, and weakness) aka one button to win, especially if u’re the victim and you’re outnumbered

I’m sorry I lol’d so hard at this…your freaking out about 2 stacks of bleed and a poison? GG man GG.

[sarcasm] So much dps AUTO WIN OP MLG!!!!!!! [/sarcasm]

the point is that it blocks effective condi removal by putting so many different conditions at once, just getting stacks is useless without filler condi to block removal

exactly! If at least the condi removal system were smart and gave priority to the most hurting condition, but no… I want to cleanse 8 stack of bleeding and instead it cleanses 1 of vulnerability…

Dee Jay.2460:

Aberrant.6749:

In a large groups conditions get removed very quickly. They usually wind up dealing quite a bit less damage than direct damage (as morrolan pointed out).

+40% duration food is countered with the -40% duration food

That’s a kittenty argument.

Since when is every food supposed to have a counter-food?

Is there a counter for any other counter-food out there?

Food is supposed to be a bonus, a buff according to your play-style. And as a bonus, the 40% Condition duration is overpowered compared to others.

Single Conditions aren’t really an issue imo, but Condition bombing is. And currently every skill in the game seems to add some sort of Condition, mostly more.

Agree. + Rare Veggie Pizza is around 8 silver nowadays, if u want to counter it with lemograss u have to spend almost 30 silver (1 silver /min, is the hotline of gw food!)
Ok u can use pultry and leek soup but is 36% reduction.

koi cake is like 1.4 silver and same thing as rare veggie.

1.4 silver countered by 30 silver.

and using koi cake is useful against every class, while the counter is only really useful against condi bulds.

Solstice.1097:

Aten.8046:

phys.7689:

Lurock Turoth.9085:

Aten.8046:

Necromancer’s signet of spite (Inflict bleeding, blindness, crippled, poison, vulnerability, and weakness) aka one button to win, especially if u’re the victim and you’re outnumbered

I’m sorry I lol’d so hard at this…your freaking out about 2 stacks of bleed and a poison? GG man GG.

[sarcasm] So much dps AUTO WIN OP MLG!!!!!!! [/sarcasm]

the point is that it blocks effective condi removal by putting so many different conditions at once, just getting stacks is useless without filler condi to block removal

exactly! If at least the condi removal system were smart and gave priority to the most hurting condition, but no… I want to cleanse 8 stack of bleeding and instead it cleanses 1 of vulnerability…

Dee Jay.2460:

Aberrant.6749:

In a large groups conditions get removed very quickly. They usually wind up dealing quite a bit less damage than direct damage (as morrolan pointed out).

+40% duration food is countered with the -40% duration food

That’s a kittenty argument.

Since when is every food supposed to have a counter-food?

Is there a counter for any other counter-food out there?

Food is supposed to be a bonus, a buff according to your play-style. And as a bonus, the 40% Condition duration is overpowered compared to others.

Single Conditions aren’t really an issue imo, but Condition bombing is. And currently every skill in the game seems to add some sort of Condition, mostly more.

Agree. + Rare Veggie Pizza is around 8 silver nowadays, if u want to counter it with lemograss u have to spend almost 30 silver (1 silver /min, is the hotline of gw food!)
Ok u can use pultry and leek soup but is 36% reduction.

koi cake is like 1.4 silver and same thing as rare veggie.

1.4 silver countered by 30 silver.

and using koi cake is useful against every class, while the counter is only really useful against condi bulds.

The counter is useful against all immobilizes, weakness, vulnerability and cripple spams that most classes can do. Those all help power specs lock people down and crush them. They are much better than people make them out to be.

Condis are not useless in zergs but condi duration is hardly helpful. 20 seconds on that bleed that will get stripped in the next 4? Excellent. Power runs the zerg and I don’t think anyone can debate that.

The big problem is that there is the imbalance between condis in small group(lets say less than 5) and large group aspects. My necro is phenomenal in small groups and when taking out a single target. The damage is monstrous. If you put it in a zerg I’d much rather use a power spec. I can still strip the boons and what not but Im able to actually hit the enemies for more than 4k damage.

Solstice.1097:

here is the imbalance between condi and glass in a nutshell:

damage
condi and glass builds can output roughly equal DPS

mitigation
glass damage mitigated by by blocks, dodges, LOS blind, invulnerability i.e. endure pain
condi damage mitigated by condi removal skills. depends on class but fairly equal in mitigation options

survivability
condi builds have extremely high survivability
glass builds cannot
and here is the issue.

A full condi bomb build shouldn’t be able to also have 3k+ armor and 25k+ health and still be so effective

Damage-
Full glass builds will do more damage and quicker, they just die fast so they don’t get to do it for long
Condition builds take time to build up damage and it can be removed

Mitigation-
Conditions are mitigated by EVERYTHING that glass damage is mitigated by(Condition needs to land to be applied) AND can still be removed.

Survivability
Condi builds have high survivability because they need it in order to do their damage
Glass builds give up survivability in order to get high upfront damage to kill their enemies quickly.

A power survivability build is going to be able to achieve high damage(not as high as glass) and just as much survivability as a condition build. The problem is that people want to run berserker builds and when they can’t kill the enemy in a single burst and have no condition removal they die.

Do some math and you’ll see that conditions aren’t all they are cracked up to be. In order for my condition necro build(1800 condition just to be sure) to match my power necro at say 3k dps you’ll need a constant stack of 16 bleeds, poison, and burning. I’d love it if someone started doing DPS tests between condition builds, power builds, and berserker builds.

I wish more people would learn that there are builds in between full condition and full bersekers.

I have far more issue with the unlimited knockdown/snare/stun/fear meta of WvW then conditions. With conditions I typically have time to clear or move away or heal as I try to fight. Knockdown and big dps by a power attack and there is a far greater chance I will be dead before I can even react. Knockdown and conditions and I will likely be able to act

Distaste.4801:

Solstice.1097:

here is the imbalance between condi and glass in a nutshell:

damage
condi and glass builds can output roughly equal DPS

mitigation
glass damage mitigated by by blocks, dodges, LOS blind, invulnerability i.e. endure pain
condi damage mitigated by condi removal skills. depends on class but fairly equal in mitigation options

survivability
condi builds have extremely high survivability
glass builds cannot
and here is the issue.

A full condi bomb build shouldn’t be able to also have 3k+ armor and 25k+ health and still be so effective

Damage-
Full glass builds will do more damage and quicker, they just die fast so they don’t get to do it for long
Condition builds take time to build up damage and it can be removed

Mitigation-
Conditions are mitigated by EVERYTHING that glass damage is mitigated by(Condition needs to land to be applied) AND can still be removed.

Survivability
Condi builds have high survivability because they need it in order to do their damage
Glass builds give up survivability in order to get high upfront damage to kill their enemies quickly.

A power survivability build is going to be able to achieve high damage(not as high as glass) and just as much survivability as a condition build. The problem is that people want to run berserker builds and when they can’t kill the enemy in a single burst and have no condition removal they die.

Do some math and you’ll see that conditions aren’t all they are cracked up to be. In order for my condition necro build(1800 condition just to be sure) to match my power necro at say 3k dps you’ll need a constant stack of 16 bleeds, poison, and burning. I’d love it if someone started doing DPS tests between condition builds, power builds, and berserker builds.

I wish more people would learn that there are builds in between full condition and full bersekers.

you need to word the mitigation part better, toughness does not mitigate conditions, yes conditions need to land to do damage but most of them are applied thru crit or in conjunction with a direct damage attack.

and I am all for builds between full zerker and full condition if and when they can be used more viably. As it stands right now its hard to make a viable hybrid build on most class due to the limitations on spec and stat allocation on gear. With more diverse stat allocation (even if its a change in Main stat from precision to power) you would see more reverse builds. Its been stated in the past that more stat combinations would come so its just a matter of time.

I think the key thing people need to remember/realize is that most of us are talking about conditions in regards to roaming/small group (5 or less) play.

I think you are wrong on mitigation. most condi skills are unblockable and not affected but things like invulnerability or distortion or retalition or reflection. only thing that really works is perfectly timed dodge or getting out of range.

or ANY build there is nothing that hurts me more than a condi necro. I can fight 1v5 or 1v10 on mesmer and survive a very long time, but if there is even 1 necro in the group I’m kittened.

Solstice.1097:

I think you are wrong on mitigation. most condi skills are unblockable and not affected but things like invulnerability or distortion or retalition or reflection. only thing that really works is perfectly timed dodge or getting out of range.

or ANY build there is nothing that hurts me more than a condi necro. I can fight 1v5 or 1v10 on mesmer and survive a very long time, but if there is even 1 necro in the group I’m kittened.

Most necro skills are blockable unless you trait for the unblockable marks. Most people don’t trait for that and marks are not the biggest form of condi application for necro. Invulnerability works just fine as well. Reflection hurts mesmers, engis and thieves. Distortion also works fine.

are you sure I can just straight up “block” the condi bomb? I have tried many times. Also my mesmer distortion and warrior invulnerability only seems to apply to physical attacks. I am no expert but the point I’m getting at is it’s always been easier for me to mitigate damage from a zerker class than from a condi spec.

Solstice.1097:

are you sure I can just straight up “block” the condi bomb? I have tried many times. Also my mesmer distortion and warrior invulnerability only seems to apply to physical attacks. I am no expert but the point I’m getting at is it’s always been easier for me to mitigate damage from a zerker class than from a condi spec.

I’m positive.

KarlusDavius.1024:

Immobilise needs to be looked at. Not fun having huge durations of it

Agreed.

Ynot.8397:

Solstice.1097:

are you sure I can just straight up “block” the condi bomb? I have tried many times. Also my mesmer distortion and warrior invulnerability only seems to apply to physical attacks. I am no expert but the point I’m getting at is it’s always been easier for me to mitigate damage from a zerker class than from a condi spec.

I’m positive.

my hope is renewed! until unblockable fear ruins it.

High condition damage isn’t really the problem… coupling it with a bunker is. Glassy builds should be able to dish it out, but now we have engineers and necros in small group play that can stack way more than any class can effectively remove while remaining some of the toughest targets to bring down.

Aten.8046:

[..] What do you guys think?

I think the Condi heavy meta is the only thing keeping the Necro, in particular, viable, which is why Arenanet won’t fix it wholesale any time soon. You’ll see lots of small tweaks as though that’s all it needs.

Moleless.1462:

As a few people have mentioned, it’s not at all an issue in large scales fights. Condi’s dont stick inside a zerg.

Small scale combat is a completely different story. The condi pressure that some classes can apply is just straight up ridiculous. I’m specced almost entirely to counter conditions, yet conditions are still by far the biggest issue for me in small fights. You can’t counter conditions at all. The current condi meta allows for no counter play, and that’s pretty much the definition of a broken mechanic.

Not to mention, the whole playstyle in general is jsut so anti-fun. In my opinion, conditions should be relegated to soft CC only. Condi damage is just completely over the top.

I want to like that post a second time

I think if we left passive condi removal alone but made active condi removal skills remove ALL conditions instead of just 1-2 at a time it would go a long way.

The reason they need to be all and not 1-2 is because the prioritizing is so bad. I don’t want to remove that one stack of vulnerability I want to remove the 15 bleeds that are melting my health!!!

Conditions are only bad if you are a solo roamer, like someone else said earlier. I main a necro and have been wrecking people lately, but still get owned by thieves, or kill them just barely, because they are invisible 90% of the fight. You can’t counter that. You can counter conditions by using melandru runes, -40% food, and having high vitality. There is no -40% physical damage food and toughness scaling is a joke. Nothing can stop a thief from taking 8k of your health away in one shot. Backstab should only hit 150% or whatever if the target is standing still and it is from behind them.

Conditions are not just overpowered they’re also idiotic. They put conditions on minor traits that activate randomly. They put conditions on auto attacks.

What kind of strategy is there here? There isn’t any. It’s just spam.

There are more reasons why GW2 isn’t taken seriously as a PVP game and failed horribly at the “e-sport”.

This game already favours tanky/healing builds as is. I’d much like it to take more of rock, paper, scissors approach instead of what we have now.

Depending on how you trait your character, whatever your most dominant stat is, you get a buff. Raw damage, tank, healing, condition damage.

Tank builds: Strong against damage, weak to conditions, neutral to healing
Damage builds: Strong against healing, weak to tank, neutral to condition
Healing builds: Strong against condition, weak to damage, and neutral to tank
Condition builds: Strong against tank, weak to healing, neutral to damage.

Make it so, whether your weak or strong to something, means you either gain a 50% damage bonus or 50% damage reduction.

Maskaganda.2043:

fight against any decent group and try stacking conditions on a target. it’s not gonna happen.

You may want to remove the links from your signature before posting such nonsense. The very first video in your list shows you handily winning a 2v1 by spamming conditions.

I play engineer as well, so don’t try to tell me how great you are or how bad your opponents are. If your build auto-wins by spamming everything on cooldown, even against mediocre opponents, it’s over powered.

Offensive abilities are spammy and out of control in GW2 period.

High condition pressure (trait to remove it, rune to decrease/remove, sigil to remove it, eat food to decrease it, go kittens deep to keep condi at bay! Now you’re another Stepford wife. Happy? Don’t want to do that? Run in a sizable group that does!)

Insane burst damage (Stacked toughness? Too bad, you’re still getting slammed for 8k+)

Immobalize stacking (With all the conditions being sloshed around already, Anet thinks that being a sitting duck is fun)

Torment condition (Really? Design a high mobility combat system ..aaand punish people for moving! Brilliant!) Torment has no place in GW2

All this mixed in with hp/defensive skill cooldown disparities and healing power being a bad joke makes me wonder where it’s all heading to be honest.

Conditions are garbage. Immobilize and fear are the only ones you need to worry about killing you. Seriously if you burn or bleed someone they will be died in 30 short seconds. If a warrior has healing signet equipped he may not even notice he is burning, bleeding and poisoned as his health is still going up.

Samhayn.2385:

you need to word the mitigation part better, toughness does not mitigate conditions, yes conditions need to land to do damage but most of them are applied thru crit or in conjunction with a direct damage attack.

and I am all for builds between full zerker and full condition if and when they can be used more viably. As it stands right now its hard to make a viable hybrid build on most class due to the limitations on spec and stat allocation on gear. With more diverse stat allocation (even if its a change in Main stat from precision to power) you would see more reverse builds. Its been stated in the past that more stat combinations would come so its just a matter of time.

You are correct about toughness and even protection, I was just too lazy to type it all out. I just get befuddled when people forget that conditions need to land to be applied. I also fully agree on stat allocations, I always felt that stats should have been another character customization layer on top of traits instead of shoehorned into traits. We also need to look at base class health and armor, but now I’m just wishful thinking considering the speed that arenanet changes things.

Victory.2879:

Aberrant.6749:

Indeed it’s also very dependent on class/build. Like an eng will often have very little cond removal with just turret(2) and EG(1).

Trait for it, -40% food, eg 1, healing kit 4, engis have lots of condition removal traits and in fact can clear ALL conditions at 25% HP.

Conditions aren’t really that much of a problem for people if they plan for them – and if you don’t then expect them to kill you. Burst damage is mainly what kills people in groups- even small parties can cleanse conditions while bursting down whatever is causing them.

It doesn’t clear them it makes you immune to new ones at 25%… and yea, like I said, build dependent. You would need to be some sort of bunker eng to be using the -40% food over direct damage or cond duration increase. That would be more for zerging in general.

The usually eng build I see for roaming is 3x kit with perplexity. Rarely I will see a HgH which would have 409. It’s super rare that I see a roaming eng traited for cond immunity at 25%. One of the issues with eng right now is that in some ways they have a lot of cond removal and not enough in others (like outside of deep alch builds).

Thrashbarg.9820:

Maskaganda.2043:

fight against any decent group and try stacking conditions on a target. it’s not gonna happen.

You may want to remove the links from your signature before posting such nonsense. The very first video in your list shows you handily winning a 2v1 by spamming conditions.

I play engineer as well, so don’t try to tell me how great you are or how bad your opponents are. If your build auto-wins by spamming everything on cooldown, even against mediocre opponents, it’s over powered.

I think the key word here was decent. You’ll lose to equally skilled/geared players in just about any 2v1.

Thrashbarg.9820:

Maskaganda.2043:

fight against any decent group and try stacking conditions on a target. it’s not gonna happen.

You may want to remove the links from your signature before posting such nonsense. The very first video in your list shows you handily winning a 2v1 by spamming conditions.

I play engineer as well, so don’t try to tell me how great you are or how bad your opponents are. If your build auto-wins by spamming everything on cooldown, even against mediocre opponents, it’s over powered.

I try to not jump into WvW balance threads because they’re pretty painful to read, but I feel like I should reply to this. I think you’re hitting on an interesting point. For example, most thieves in WvW will win by using stealth, because average players just have no idea how to react when their opponent disappears. You could say similar things for warrior and mesmer.

I guess what I’m saying is, there’s kind of a baseline of competence that the game requires to not get destroyed by stuff like stealth, or hammer chains, or phantasms. I don’t think there’s any way to “protect” players from clones or stealth or conditions. All the nerfs in the world won’t make the game easier, and I don’t think we’d want it to be easier, anyway.

Conditions in WvW, That is your big issue and not the crazy amount of CC and stability needed to run in a zerg? Well have you ever rolled with a warrior because I have one that uses 7 condition removal spells and they are all AoE up to 5 players. Alone I can cure most conditions a necro puts out and usually a zerg will have multiple classes with condition curing abilities. I also have an engi which uses elixirs to cure conditions, which gives me 6 Condition cure spells right there. I do agree however that conditions are pretty much the meta game right now but it is easily void if you prepare for it with runes of lyssa and carry proper CC in your build.
I also found it interesting that I read some engineers complaining about our condition removal, makes me wonder what are you doing not building for condition removal and then complaining about it. It’s like having no toughness verse a thief and complaining that thieves do too much damage.
What Arenanet must do it create more builds with useful traits so some classes aren’t left in the dirt. Im tired of looking at half my traits and thinking “I NEED this in my build, to counter blah class.”

More useful traits? Madness. We need more things like the auto reveal at 25% hp on thief and dropping mines at 25% on eng.

I don’t think half you people complaining have even the slightest clue about balance. Nuke conditions then every class that plays with them that hasn’t been getting murdered by non-cond warriors, mesmers and thieves now will. golf clap to logic

Thrashbarg.9820:

Maskaganda.2043:

fight against any decent group and try stacking conditions on a target. it’s not gonna happen.

You may want to remove the links from your signature before posting such nonsense. The very first video in your list shows you handily winning a 2v1 by spamming conditions.

I play engineer as well, so don’t try to tell me how great you are or how bad your opponents are. If your build auto-wins by spamming everything on cooldown, even against mediocre opponents, it’s over powered.

you should have kept going and see me winning 1v3s too ! or check my vids from months ago when conditions weren’t considered a problem and see me winning 1v5s.

OR.. at least check the build links and see that Im not using either rabid or dire armor but carrion which is POWER vit and cd. that makes a world of difference against certain classes/setups. besides, I win 1v2s with my direct damage classes too, I just don’t play them enough to actually record stuff.

I have 7 different level 80 toons, I only play 1 as pure conditions, 1 as hybrid, 2 as healing/support and 3 as direct dmg. roaming solo or in small groups is all I do in gw2 so:

it’s very far from nonsense. any decently organized small roaming group will not die to conditions easily. any group running two guardians or a guardian and an ele will trivially cleanse stuff and keep cc at bay with near permanent stability. add in a warrior or two and try to beat that with an equally skilled condition based group.

conditions are great to beat bad players that like to zerg, or groups that lack cleansing but any half good organized group (or even solo roamer) will deal just fine with conditions.

I know my groups don’t die because of conditions, what gets us (besides vastly superior numbers) is chain cc and full berserker backliners.
and we run both direct dmage groups, mixed or condition depending on what setups we face or what we feel like playing.
those rare times when we face good groups we usually drop conditions and grab warriors eles and guardians. go figure!

Dee Jay.2460:

+ 40% Condition Duration food exasperates the problem. Practically every Condition build uses this food for good reason. It’s much more powerful (relatively speaking) than any other food buff out there.

Without that food i have practically no chance vs -65% condi duration (armor/food) so for me it’s more like “you have too take it” than “i take it because i like it”.

Personally i don’t have anything against removing condi duration food (+40% and -40/20%) from WvWvW, leave only +15% chill/burn/poison etc food.

If at least people would start trying to learn the couple of viable condition specs in this game instead of writing amazing arguments like “stupid condition spam. gg”.
Of course as a condition necro i use weapons and utility skills that apply conditions. It would be the same as being angry at a physical damage warrior to pick axe or hammer.

As it has been pointed out a couple of times already: Condition specs become useless in zerg fights and loses a lot of effectiveness even in 2v2 against good opponents. There never has been any condition meta in wvw. Even while roaming the vast majority of players run physical damage builds and as of late i encountered more sd than pp engis.

Monkeymonger.9235:

If at least people would start trying to learn the couple of viable condition specs in this game instead of writing amazing arguments like “stupid condition spam. gg”.

Condition and hybrid necro builds were viable in duels and small skirmishes before dhuumfire and torment. Currently they are faceroll against most other classes. You can set up pressure by just auto-attacking (for scepter-necros this adds up to about 10+ permanent bleed stacks and ~1/3 burning uptime) and pop either corrupt boons on boon-reliant builds or signet of spite inbetween. Both are very hard to see and don’t require preparation like most power build bursts do.

Monkeymonger.9235:

It would be the same as being angry at a physical damage warrior to pick axe or hammer.

Let’s not use warriors as reference for balanced gameplay, shall we?
Anyways – melee warriors can be easily kited and have very obvious skill animations. Heavy-dps builds using axes are very squishy (while hammer builds are not) and lack strong control, so it becomes a readable fight in which both parties can look for certain animations, anticipate, and use movement to avoid some of the damage and control aspects. However against most condition specs it becomes a game of RNG and lucky dodges / blocks because of the lack of skill indicators, lack of reliably condition removal and re-applicability of certain conditions.

Monkeymonger.9235:

Condition specs become useless in zerg fights and loses a lot of effectiveness even in 2v2 against good opponents.

The OP stated that he was not talking about zergs or any form of large scale combat, but about small scale and duels. Just look at how many conditions one can dish out at a given time and how much can be mitigated by condition removal. Due to auto-procs and AoE condition application it is an uncontrollable mess. Besides: you cannot control which condition gets removed. It is not just about some bleed stacks, poison, torment, burning and fear, but mostly about immobilize and confusion all stacked together without a chance to reliably remove the condition which currently hurts most. Especially outnumbered you can be the best players in the world – it doesn’t help when you get snared to death (yeay, immobilize stacking!), but only remove that one stack of vulnerability. It is just stupid.

Monkeymonger.9235:

There never has been any condition meta in wvw.

And this is why you only ever see solo-roaming mesmer running blackwater or blackwater-perplexity, every necro traiting dhuumfire-terror and using sos, every engineer slotting p/s-ip-bk-tk-eg-perplexity, and every fourth warrior laughing at you with lb-s/s, etc…

Monkeymonger.9235:

Even while roaming the vast majority of players run physical damage builds and as of late i encountered more sd than pp engis.

Some of our engineers switch to direct damage builds because they get bored by the cheese condition gameplay we have atm. There are still some direct damage builds around, but most of them are warriors, and ofc the occasional d/p-thieves (some of which seem to try out s/d-s/d or s/d-d/p atm)…

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=genious

I don’t think I’m playing the same version of GW2…Condi builds seem pretty useless outside of duels and 2v2s etc. Have never had a problem dealing with conditions, on any of my characters :/