Guild Wars 2

I do mostly small group fights against other players that roam and do small group fights where conditions play a bigger factor in deciding a win. HOWEVER, you can change your build composition to fight condition heavy groups.

Is this more of a group comp or solo roamer build problem than a condition problem?

People need to realize that 1 class or 1 build should not be invincible. Group play and is really the only way to cover weak gaps in your builds.

Distaste.4801:

Damage-
Full glass builds will do more damage and quicker, they just die fast so they don’t get to do it for long
Condition builds take time to build up damage and it can be removed

Mitigation-
Conditions are mitigated by EVERYTHING that glass damage is mitigated by(Condition needs to land to be applied) AND can still be removed.

If a power build lands every attack, it will deal more damage faster than a condition build. However, in practice, condition builds have more dps. The damage is much more consistent due to ignoring armor, being largely based on trait procs, having attacks that are far less telegraphed, not being reliant on one or two high damage skills and being ranged.

The things that mitigate both power and condition damage are always way more effective against power damage. Aegis and blind deal with one attack. Power builds tend to always have one or two really powerful skills. A single attack from a power build could be 10k+ damage. That one attack could have been the attack they use to setup that 10k hit. One hit from a condition build is always just going to be one or two conditions, and those exact same conditions will likely be applied by the next attack anyway.

Dodging has the same issue; there is no key condition attack to dodge or the attack isn’t telegraphed. I’d love to dodge doom, but it’s instant cast. I’d love to dodge corrupt boon, but it’s instant cast. I’d love to dodge those on crit burn traits, but I can’t predict the future of rng nor dodge every single crit that could possibly land.

Tei.1704:

Dodging has the same issue; there is no key condition attack to dodge or the attack isn’t telegraphed. I’d love to dodge doom, but it’s instant cast. I’d love to dodge corrupt boon, but it’s instant cast. I’d love to dodge those on crit burn traits, but I can’t predict the future of rng nor dodge every single crit that could possibly land.

at least you can dodge

It is stupid to either guard against direct damage or conditions and if you are fighting the wrong type of player, you have a really hard time just staying alive. The solution would be to guard against both, but then you wouldn’t be able to kill any thing. Something needs to be done or reduce CDs of condition removals. Toughness needs to factor into the damage conditions do.

lol at the clueless people in this thread that don’t even roam so they automatically assume condis suck (after all they dont work in da zurgs!!!!1). OP is right almost 100%. Condis put out more pressure than anything in this game (besides 100% zerker thief/warrior [BARELY]) , have tons of HP and defenses (engis/necros/apothecary warrs), and are relatively easy to play. Seriously if you don’t understand that condis are king in small man right now I will find out someone regardless of your server that will obliterate any non-condi build you play.

Conditions can be a problem in smaller fights where you/your group/your pug zerg doesn’t really have any cleansing going. Eating a dozen thousand condition damage in a condition spam build in moments is tough for some classes in particular. I am not calling for any nerfs per se, as condition builds are some of the only viable ways and other build options that certain classes have to feel useful.

But, like a few others have pointed out, let us not pretend that direct burst damage and perma-immobilize-until-dead CC isn’t a big if not bigger issue in WvW.

delighted conditions are considered a problem. Good news for us squishies.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Junkpile.7439:

If something is op in meaningless fight anet won’t nerft it. Thief stealth is good example.

All fights in WvW are utterly meaningless anyway. The winning team is decided solely by total coverage.

I absolutely disagree.

When I am running a map at 3am PST alone, very alone, I can turn the score to a larger score just but turning sentries and running dolyaks.

Where did you get the idea that a single player in any game against other real players just doesn’t matter? We do. We always have.

We are still learning to be a team on most servers.

Some are not helping by being negative, running from fights and being debbie downers instead of being the mentors who are badly are needed on all servers.

I agree with Aten 100% it’s also ruining build diversity as condition users use the rare veggie pizza which in turn pigeon holes everyone else into using lemon grass poultry; the price of it has gotten ridiculous.

atheria.2837:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Junkpile.7439:

If something is op in meaningless fight anet won’t nerft it. Thief stealth is good example.

All fights in WvW are utterly meaningless anyway. The winning team is decided solely by total coverage.

I absolutely disagree.

When I am running a map at 3am PST alone, very alone, I can turn the score to a larger score just but turning sentries and running dolyaks.

Where did you get the idea that a single player in any game against other real players just doesn’t matter? We do. We always have.

We are still learning to be a team on most servers.

Some are not helping by being negative, running from fights and being debbie downers instead of being the mentors who are badly are needed on all servers.

It actually is all about coverage. You are able to do that because your enemy server is failing in that department. Against servers with good coverage, holding a keep for a few hours is meh. What’s important is to get new players and keep learning, and keep the new players learning so they don’t make hugely ignorant threads about how conditions that are capped are op and full zerk DPS can’t compare.

borrok.9267:

It actually is all about coverage. You are able to do that because your enemy server is failing in that department. Against servers with good coverage, holding a keep for a few hours is meh. What’s important is to get new players and keep learning, and keep the new players learning so they don’t make hugely ignorant threads about how conditions that are capped are op and full zerk DPS can’t compare.

The point OP raised is completely valid. Don’t be a jerk.

Condition duration food should be lowered to 20% and condintion removal food should be lowered to 20%. playing a warior I can reduce the condition duration by 98%. Trait does 33% (for chill and cripple) runes of melandru 25% and 40% from food. On the other side I get feared for 6 seconds because of necro and signet of spite lasts 17 seconds for all conditions.

Condi duration food shouldn’t even exist. The toxic ones are okay, Dire users actually lose quite a bit of condi damage for picking it over the regular crystals.

<- scumbag condi engi

Just remove consumables from WvW problem solved.

zaragoz.6351:

Just remove consumables from WvW problem solved.

+1

D best.3547:

Condition duration food should be lowered to 20% and condintion removal food should be lowered to 20%. playing a warior I can reduce the condition duration by 98%.

I don’t think you understand condition duration. The reductions are on the base not adjusted times. Also the best you can do is a base 65% duration reduction against damaging conditions and a base 98% against Immobilize, Cripple, Chilled. If the enemy is running anything that increases duration, it 1 for 1 cancels out your reductions.

A well built necro will likely hit you with 5+ different conditions that last longer than your reductions by a good bit. If you cleanse, they will simply reapply. Run into two of them and you are probably dead. Skirmish play has changed radically since 3+ condi-bunkers are straight up murdering most other groups.

IMO there’s only one class making this condition meta a meta to begin with, just due to the sheer amount of conditions available to them…necromancers. I can fight any enemy and not really mind conditions, but a necromancer? I see one, I’m dead. Signet of Spite, Staff Marks, Doom, etc. There are too many conditions in too little time, and they can stack Fear with at least two moves. Get multiples of them, and it gets ridiculous. I had a 15 second fear on once, 15 SECONDS!

I’m not saying nerf the necromancer’s conditions completely per say, I’m saying you need to tone down some of their conditions (maybe the time the conditions have that Marks inflict) and the damage they do, at least for WvW. And possibly make it impossible to stack Fear.

Renny.6571:

borrok.9267:

It actually is all about coverage. You are able to do that because your enemy server is failing in that department. Against servers with good coverage, holding a keep for a few hours is meh. What’s important is to get new players and keep learning, and keep the new players learning so they don’t make hugely ignorant threads about how conditions that are capped are op and full zerk DPS can’t compare.

The point OP raised is completely valid. Don’t be a jerk.

No he doesn’t, if he did then cond builds would be so wildly op there would be no need to run anything else. I frequently jump between power and cond builds, and I’ve fought just as many people that were kitten near immune to conditions or at least the application to them as I have that were nearly too tough to out DPS. Easy solution if you are a thief… keep going invis and blinding. If you are a Mesmer keep making clones going invis and warping. If you are guard you shouldn’t even be complaining. If you are hunter stay at range and use your ridiculous vigor to evade. There are so many real issues and real mechanics that are over powered but people choose this to complain about…

RyuDragnier.9476:

IMO there’s only one class making this condition meta a meta to begin with, just due to the sheer amount of conditions available to them…necromancers. I can fight any enemy and not really mind conditions, but a necromancer? I see one, I’m dead. Signet of Spite, Staff Marks, Doom, etc. There are too many conditions in too little time, and they can stack Fear with at least two moves. Get multiples of them, and it gets ridiculous. I had a 15 second fear on once, 15 SECONDS!

I’m not saying nerf the necromancer’s conditions completely per say, I’m saying you need to tone down some of their conditions (maybe the time the conditions have that Marks inflict) and the damage they do, at least for WvW. And possibly make it impossible to stack Fear.

If you see one you’re dead… I hope you aren’t speaking from a thiefs perspective here.

how is it that i can block thieves backstab 90% of the time but I can never block a necro condi bomb? because the skills are insta-cast and have little or no animation/warning?

they should make those powerful condi skills have like a 1 second animation on yourself and you must dodge or block within that 1 second or all the condis proc on you. that would solve everything from my perspective.

borrok.9267:

RyuDragnier.9476:

IMO there’s only one class making this condition meta a meta to begin with, just due to the sheer amount of conditions available to them…necromancers. I can fight any enemy and not really mind conditions, but a necromancer? I see one, I’m dead. Signet of Spite, Staff Marks, Doom, etc. There are too many conditions in too little time, and they can stack Fear with at least two moves. Get multiples of them, and it gets ridiculous. I had a 15 second fear on once, 15 SECONDS!

I’m not saying nerf the necromancer’s conditions completely per say, I’m saying you need to tone down some of their conditions (maybe the time the conditions have that Marks inflict) and the damage they do, at least for WvW. And possibly make it impossible to stack Fear.

If you see one you’re dead… I hope you aren’t speaking from a thiefs perspective here.

Ranger’s perspective.

Solstice.1097:

how is it that i can block thieves backstab 90% of the time but I can never block a necro condi bomb? because the skills are insta-cast and have little or no animation/warning?

they should make those powerful condi skills have like a 1 second animation on yourself and you must dodge or block within that 1 second or all the condis proc on you. that would solve everything from my perspective.

My skills are blocked ALL THE TIME. Even corrupt boon has been blocked which was supposed to be unblockable. Though for the skill animation there are a couple skills I do agree that should not be instacast. On the flip side skills like signet of spite take up useful utility spots so having it on bar could be detrimental to some condition builds that NEED utility.

Finally, I’ve been waiting for someone to bring this up. Conditions are meant to be an add on effect, they aren’t meant to be a build maker. I’ve actually had to remod my build around condition spammers, otherwise I just wouldn’t stand a chance.

I know guardians are almost if not the best condition removers, but not even guardians can fight against a full stack of conditions unless they’re lucky enough to have contemplation of purity on at the right moment.

Confusion is by far the worst condition to fight against as a guardian, pure of voice just isn’t good enough to fight against confusion, confusion is almost the last condition to be removed when I use a shout and by then, I’m almost dead anyway from the confusion damage.

this has nothing to do with servers at all, all servers have condition spammers, whether they be ranger, engineer, necro, mesmer or even thief (yes it is possible, I’ve had it happen to me), every server has them.

I’ve already had to mod my build around ganking thieves, I’ve also had to mod my build around healing warriors, to top it all off, I’ve had to mod my build once again against condition spammers.

I just don’t see why conditions cannot be nerfed, confusion definatly needs to be nerfed, in my opinion; poison and cripple are just fine but something needs to be done about the rest.

RyuDragnier.9476:

borrok.9267:

RyuDragnier.9476:

IMO there’s only one class making this condition meta a meta to begin with, just due to the sheer amount of conditions available to them…necromancers. I can fight any enemy and not really mind conditions, but a necromancer? I see one, I’m dead. Signet of Spite, Staff Marks, Doom, etc. There are too many conditions in too little time, and they can stack Fear with at least two moves. Get multiples of them, and it gets ridiculous. I had a 15 second fear on once, 15 SECONDS!

I’m not saying nerf the necromancer’s conditions completely per say, I’m saying you need to tone down some of their conditions (maybe the time the conditions have that Marks inflict) and the damage they do, at least for WvW. And possibly make it impossible to stack Fear.

If you see one you’re dead… I hope you aren’t speaking from a thiefs perspective here.

Ranger’s perspective.

Fair enough, rangers I’ll agree are pretty easy spec to cond.

Condi application out-paces any condi removal in the game in small-scale. It’s not even funny how far application out-paces removal.

Fighting power builds is different than condi builds. Power builds have several skills that, if dodged, you neutralize the entire burst. Skilled players will make it extremely hard for you to dodge that burst, but it can still be avoided. Contrast that to condi builds where all someone has to do is auto-attack with the occasional utility use to kill the enemy. This is why the skill cap on condi builds is so mind-blowingly low.

Boonprot.6274:

Condi application out-paces any condi removal in the game in small-scale. It’s not even funny how far application out-paces removal.

Fighting power builds is different than condi builds. Power builds have several skills that, if dodged, you neutralize the entire burst. Skilled players will make it extremely hard for you to dodge that burst, but it can still be avoided. Contrast that to condi builds where all someone has to do is auto-attack with the occasional utility use to kill the enemy. This is why the skill cap on condi builds is so mind-blowingly low.

If you have a problem with cond, then spec to remove and learn to evade and CC. Stability then CC/dps/blind repeat until they are dead.

borrok.9267:

Boonprot.6274:

Condi application out-paces any condi removal in the game in small-scale. It’s not even funny how far application out-paces removal.

Fighting power builds is different than condi builds. Power builds have several skills that, if dodged, you neutralize the entire burst. Skilled players will make it extremely hard for you to dodge that burst, but it can still be avoided. Contrast that to condi builds where all someone has to do is auto-attack with the occasional utility use to kill the enemy. This is why the skill cap on condi builds is so mind-blowingly low.

If you have a problem with cond, then spec to remove and learn to evade and CC. Stability then CC/dps/blind repeat until they are dead.

Of course, I’m not kittened. However, doesn’t change the fact that condi application far and away overpowers condi removal in small-scale.

Boonprot.6274:

borrok.9267:

Boonprot.6274:

Condi application out-paces any condi removal in the game in small-scale. It’s not even funny how far application out-paces removal.

Fighting power builds is different than condi builds. Power builds have several skills that, if dodged, you neutralize the entire burst. Skilled players will make it extremely hard for you to dodge that burst, but it can still be avoided. Contrast that to condi builds where all someone has to do is auto-attack with the occasional utility use to kill the enemy. This is why the skill cap on condi builds is so mind-blowingly low.

If you have a problem with cond, then spec to remove and learn to evade and CC. Stability then CC/dps/blind repeat until they are dead.

Of course, I’m not kittened. However, doesn’t change the fact that condi application far and away overpowers condi removal in small-scale.

I disagree. I constantly switch to and from power because of this. There are a lot of targets that regardless with how much cond I stack on them it doesn’t stick and they still have high DPS. It is completely target dependent. If you were to nerf cond or increase cond removal then you would in turn nerf builds that still have trouble vs several other classes due to their op mechanics. I’m not saying by any means that cond are weak, but just like power builds they have counters and have their somewhat balanced functions. I do think that some classes need to be redesigned and perplex runes might be a poor addition to the game.

borrok.9267:

Boonprot.6274:

borrok.9267:

Boonprot.6274:

Condi application out-paces any condi removal in the game in small-scale. It’s not even funny how far application out-paces removal.

Fighting power builds is different than condi builds. Power builds have several skills that, if dodged, you neutralize the entire burst. Skilled players will make it extremely hard for you to dodge that burst, but it can still be avoided. Contrast that to condi builds where all someone has to do is auto-attack with the occasional utility use to kill the enemy. This is why the skill cap on condi builds is so mind-blowingly low.

If you have a problem with cond, then spec to remove and learn to evade and CC. Stability then CC/dps/blind repeat until they are dead.

Of course, I’m not kittened. However, doesn’t change the fact that condi application far and away overpowers condi removal in small-scale.

I disagree. I constantly switch to and from power because of this. There are a lot of targets that regardless with how much cond I stack on them it doesn’t stick and they still have high DPS. It is completely target dependent. If you were to nerf cond or increase cond removal then you would in turn nerf builds that still have trouble vs several other classes due to their op mechanics. I’m not saying by any means that cond are weak, but just like power builds they have counters and have their somewhat balanced functions. I do think that some classes need to be redesigned and perplex runes might be a poor addition to the game.

I threw together a quick spreadsheet in excel outlining guardian condi removal and some typical builds you’ll find, and then I fiddled with things quickly to see how high you can get. Using Necro auto attack as an example, they can load on 2 condis/second, not including any attack aftercast. Note that this is a very conservative estimate.

A few assumptions I made:

• All skills are used immediately on cooldown (in reality, not the case at all)
• Contemplation of Purity is assumed to remove 12 conditions on use (in reality far less would be removed)
• Didn’t include the contributions of GS3/5 or Mace 3 in a light field
• Ignored the effects of torch offhand, because it’s not self-removing
• Ignored the effects of focus offhand
• Did not include the effect of PF’s passive, nor Runes of Melandru, nor Lemongrass Poultry
• Ignored dodges/blind/etc. because it’s difficult to quantify their contribution

So, how do these assumptions affect my approximation?

• Realistically, condi removal would be more-or-less similar to what it currently is, unless you really go deep into condi-hate (i.e. Melandru + Lemongrass + PF abuse + combo field use + etc.). However, that means you’re pulling out all the stops to counter a single build type, which I think is extremely unrealistic.

Personally, very rarely do I have issues with condi builds. I’ve found that, unless whomever you’re fighting really knows their class, you can just play really aggressive and overwhelm people with ease. That said, I do believe that condi application speed needs to be looked at.

I ran into a guild group of 10 people that were doing a group condition group cleanse every 2 seconds. I assume they were using voice coms to coordinate cleanses in rotation.

That means every condition I applied ticked at most 2 times, and not infrequently they would tick 0 times before being cleansed.

If you want to suggest changing how conditions work, or want to increase condition cleanse, you need to consider that even in small to medium sized group encounters conditions can completely negated with existing skills.

it’s not OP anymore…they nerfed the prowess of a lot of conditions this patch (dec 10)…making people that love playing zerker thieves and warriors even more prominent. not sure why there’s an OP thread, but hey, people will complain regardless.

Hard counters are being added for condi and condi necro builds have been nerfed this patch along with the previous perplexity nerf so this shouldn’t be much of an issue any more.

Welcome to power creep. Introduced by WXP ranks, food, Bloodlust, PvE traits and ascended gear.

Being used to necro conditions I am trying for some time now to get mesmer conditions effective… What I see though, is, that ppl are just simply not very intelligent fighting my condy mesmer. I can stack up to 12 confusions on a target with a cooldown on that combo for arround 25 sec (without perplexity runes, I wanna run fast^^). But it stays for only 5-6 sec… so I wasn’t expecting it to be effective… however, ppl die from that even…

Ppl panic when they see a huge variety of conditions on them. But realizing that they stay for some secs only is what many don’t see. A condition cleanse, after the short duration condies are gone, is way more effective…

And really, I had never problems fighting condi necros (with either of my professions). They are so predictable and only a few really good ones (who then deserve to win the fight) I consider dangerous. Interestingly those are the ones, with more defensive utilities^^

maeggle.6021:

Monkeymonger.9235:

If at least people would start trying to learn the couple of viable condition specs in this game instead of writing amazing arguments like “stupid condition spam. gg”.

Condition and hybrid necro builds were viable in duels and small skirmishes before dhuumfire and torment. Currently they are faceroll against most other classes. You can set up pressure by just auto-attacking (for scepter-necros this adds up to about 10+ permanent bleed stacks and ~1/3 burning uptime) and pop either corrupt boons on boon-reliant builds or signet of spite inbetween. Both are very hard to see and don’t require preparation like most power build bursts do.

I do agree with you that necromancers are too bursty (and that is even without dhuumfire). My point is rather that very few people in wvw seem to understand how a necro burst rotation works and how to counter it. If you counter necro so much that all he does is autoattack then you shouldn’t have much of a problem with him.

maeggle.6021:

Monkeymonger.9235:

It would be the same as being angry at a physical damage warrior to pick axe or hammer.

Let’s not use warriors as reference for balanced gameplay, shall we?
Anyways – ….

I’m not talking about the warrior but used it as an example. A condition spec will use weapons that apply as many conditions as possible, in the same way that a power build will pick a weapon that scales well with power. To afterwards complain that players spam conditions while they simply use their skills is stupid.

maeggle.6021:

Monkeymonger.9235:

Condition specs become useless in zerg fights and loses a lot of effectiveness even in 2v2 against good opponents.

The OP stated that he was not talking about zergs or any form of large scale combat, but about small scale and duels. Just look at how many conditions one can dish out at a given time and how much can be mitigated by condition removal. Due to auto-procs and AoE condition application it is an uncontrollable mess. Besides: you cannot control which condition gets removed. It is not just about some bleed stacks, poison, torment, burning and fear, but mostly about immobilize and confusion all stacked together without a chance to reliably remove the condition which currently hurts most. Especially outnumbered you can be the best players in the world – it doesn’t help when you get snared to death (yeay, immobilize stacking!), but only remove that one stack of vulnerability. It is just stupid.

What usually kills me in a frustrating way is burst damage by multiple players, no matter if it’s set up via immobilize or stun. Fighting in every 1vx scenario means that every way they control or damage you becomes amplified. It’s something i have to take into consideration no matter what char i build.

maeggle.6021:

Monkeymonger.9235:

There never has been any condition meta in wvw.

And this is why you only ever see solo-roaming mesmer running blackwater or blackwater-perplexity, every necro traiting dhuumfire-terror and using sos, every engineer slotting p/s-ip-bk-tk-eg-perplexity, and every fourth warrior laughing at you with lb-s/s, etc…

I don’t believe that it’s useful to speak of a metagame in wvw in general. When we talk about a small scale meta this will only affect a very small group of players that are actually dedicated roamers. The most kills i get are from people in group setup who want to get back to their zerg or just rushed ahead to secure the camp before the main zerg.
I also don’t agree with your examples. The vast majority of mesmers and warriors i meat are physical damage builds. Engis are mixed from my experience. The only class that has a majority of players on a condition spec is necros, which at the same time is the rarest roaming class due to a number of reasons (the most important one is their inability to 1vx like other classes).

maeggle.6021:

Monkeymonger.9235:

Even while roaming the vast majority of players run physical damage builds and as of late i encountered more sd than pp engis.

Some of our engineers switch to direct damage builds because they get bored by the cheese condition gameplay we have atm. There are still some direct damage builds around, but most of them are warriors, and ofc the occasional d/p-thieves (some of which seem to try out s/d-s/d or s/d-d/p atm)…

Okay.

My main problem with conditions is that condition duration bonuses stack. I think condition builds as a whole would be more interesting if condition duration bonuses acted like swiftness bonuses. I.e. if you have a trait that adds 50% longer bleed duration, and +40% condition duration food, then you only get the 50% trait bonus.

But to be brutally honest though the +/- 40% condition duration foods need to be toned down hard.

The food does not need to be toned down at all, it works just how it was intended, however consumables as a whole just need to be completely removed from WvW, that alone would go quite a long way with helping with the supposed condition problem people are complaining about. It would be really unfair to all condi players to nerf that condi duration food while leaving all the power and anti condition food in play. A simple and effective way to do it is simply disable consumables in all of WvW, not only would that save WvW players money, it would also help reduce stupid complaint posts like this.

zaragoz.6351:

The food does not need to be toned down at all, it works just how it was intended, however consumables as a whole just need to be completely removed from WvW, that alone would go quite a long way with helping with the supposed condition problem people are complaining about. It would be really unfair to all condi players to nerf that condi duration food while leaving all the power and anti condition food in play. A simple and effective way to do it is simply disable consumables in all of WvW, not only would that save WvW players money, it would also help reduce stupid complaint posts like this.

I think it all should be left as is personally. The only way they will stop complaining is if they are playing a class that dominates everything without challenge. Let them complain and the rest of us can have fun roaming or doing whatever.

borrok.9267:

zaragoz.6351:

The food does not need to be toned down at all, it works just how it was intended, however consumables as a whole just need to be completely removed from WvW, that alone would go quite a long way with helping with the supposed condition problem people are complaining about. It would be really unfair to all condi players to nerf that condi duration food while leaving all the power and anti condition food in play. A simple and effective way to do it is simply disable consumables in all of WvW, not only would that save WvW players money, it would also help reduce stupid complaint posts like this.

I think it all should be left as is personally. The only way they will stop complaining is if they are playing a class that dominates everything without challenge. Let them complain and the rest of us can have fun roaming or doing whatever.

Well honestly I am going to agree with you, by the tone of the thread most of these people won’t be happy until conditions do absolutely nothing, they seem to want conditions to be 100% counterable… which would just be unfair. It would be the equivalent of condition classes being able to get traits that reduce physical damage by 100%. Since release we have seen more and more condition removal added to the game, on multiple classes, just last patch both mesmer and elementalists received anti-condition buffs and before that we saw warriors get some of the best condition removal ever.

borrok.9267:

atheria.2837:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Junkpile.7439:

If something is op in meaningless fight anet won’t nerft it. Thief stealth is good example.

All fights in WvW are utterly meaningless anyway. The winning team is decided solely by total coverage.

I absolutely disagree.

When I am running a map at 3am PST alone, very alone, I can turn the score to a larger score just but turning sentries and running dolyaks.

Where did you get the idea that a single player in any game against other real players just doesn’t matter? We do. We always have.

We are still learning to be a team on most servers.

Some are not helping by being negative, running from fights and being debbie downers instead of being the mentors who are badly are needed on all servers.

It actually is all about coverage. You are able to do that because your enemy server is failing in that department. Against servers with good coverage, holding a keep for a few hours is meh. What’s important is to get new players and keep learning, and keep the new players learning so they don’t make hugely ignorant threads about how conditions that are capped are op and full zerk DPS can’t compare.

It’s irrelevant to this discussion – this discussion is about conditions being OP in WvW, NOT coverage, duh.

Rigel.3092:

borrok.9267:

atheria.2837:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Junkpile.7439:

If something is op in meaningless fight anet won’t nerft it. Thief stealth is good example.

All fights in WvW are utterly meaningless anyway. The winning team is decided solely by total coverage.

I absolutely disagree.

When I am running a map at 3am PST alone, very alone, I can turn the score to a larger score just but turning sentries and running dolyaks.

Where did you get the idea that a single player in any game against other real players just doesn’t matter? We do. We always have.

We are still learning to be a team on most servers.

Some are not helping by being negative, running from fights and being debbie downers instead of being the mentors who are badly are needed on all servers.

It actually is all about coverage. You are able to do that because your enemy server is failing in that department. Against servers with good coverage, holding a keep for a few hours is meh. What’s important is to get new players and keep learning, and keep the new players learning so they don’t make hugely ignorant threads about how conditions that are capped are op and full zerk DPS can’t compare.

It’s irrelevant to this discussion – this discussion is about conditions being OP in WvW, NOT coverage, duh.

“What’s important is to get new players and keep learning, and keep the new players learning so they don’t make hugely ignorant threads about how conditions that are capped are op and full zerk DPS can’t compare.”

So, from what I gather and agree with, condi are very strong in smaller group play. People complaining dont want to adjust play style/traits/group comp to counter it, so think it should be nerfed?

When I roam and die 6 times in a row to necros, I change spec/armor. Some days I see no necroz so I dont.

Good player will adjust, bad players will come to the forums to complain apparently. Run 5 man group, dont let the kitten necro in the back free cast while you hit the warrior, then come complain.

Omnitek.3876:

Good player will adjust, bad players will come to the forums to complain apparently. Run 5 man group, dont let the kitten necro in the back free cast while you hit the warrior, then come complain.

In small fights equally skilled condi-bunkers are winning right now by a good margin. Condi-bunkers are very hard to take down even without outputting condition damage. In the current system they can output relatively high DPS while remaining bunker. There is very little retooling that can deal enough damage to overcome a bunker and keep their damage under control. This is painfully obvious in WvW duels with skilled players.

As soon as a team gets of any notable size, their cleanses overcome condition application but that tends to happen north of 5 players.

“nerf it all except my class so I can win”

Necromancers RELY on their conditions- yes break them some more, take away the only good thing they have (conditions other than minions) so you can win- why not find a better tactic, go into PvP and find a PvP buddy who is a necro so you can learn how to play your class when you have a hard time