Guild Wars 2

Lopez.7369:

That was one example in the post to show the absurdity of the trait and passive mechanics that support it.

As a general rule of thumb, in conversations and debates you’re supposed to stick to the overall topic being debated and take everything in context. Breaking debates down into cherry-picked statements is highly fallacious.

You are right I just wanted to highlight your faulty testing and lack of understanding that power/precision/crit damage > precision in a dps race.

Lopez.7369:

http://www.twitch.tv/lhob9944/b/486397926

This necro wasn’t a good condimancer. When he finally cracked diamond skin he didn’t even SoS or CB. Minions… really? Was there even a weapon switch? Can you post something in WvW and possibly someone that isn’t hamming it up?

Lopez.7369:

Your description is still incorrect. Marks trigger once for the first player that enters. If I trigger a mark, the next person that walks over where it once existed will not be affected.

So if someone triggers the mark when a necromancer is blinded, the mark will have zero effect.

Marks are only unblockable if they are traited. But, again, only power builds take that trait.

You also seemed confused, at least earlier on in the conversation, as to what wells actually do. You implied they’re taken by condition builds when that is simply not the case.

And we didn’t even get to the fact that grenades — the cornerstone of a condition engineer — are also susceptible to reflect and deflect.

In other words, in your attempt to show condition-applying abilities aren’t susceptible to block and blind, you proved you only think that way because you don’t understand how condition-applying abilities actually work.

I am not surprised that someone who ends posts with insults cannot see past their own… oh wait this is the internet. I proved you wrong when you said the ONLY thing a necro has that can ignore blocks is a trait and I was right about wells pulsing and blindness only effecting the first pulse. I have never tested it but I always assumed that when 4 people trigger a mark and the necro is blinded it only effected 1 player but I cannot find anything in the wiki to support it either way. I will test tonight.

All that said… my original point of that reply stands… there are plenty of ways to reduce direct damage.

Lopez.7369:

Khalic.3561:

….Life blast?

Its DPS is still too low, and it’s too easy to avoid or interrupt because of the long cast time. Tainted Shackles into Life Transfer is a much better option, but it doesn’t work a huge majority of the time.

Stand closer. Even with the base power of 916, at 600 range, against an ele with 2200 armour… You’ll still do around 650 damage. If you have even an ounce of crit chance or additional power, it should only take a couple shots.

If the ele is bunkered enough to take more hits, you’re in absolutely no danger anyway with your high armour and health pool.

EDIT: Damage formula for life blast at 600 or less is 1.4*power*weapon strength / armour.

Roaming on my necro and thief (both condi specs) forever. NA/OCX/SEA timezones on populated server. I have met 1 ele that runs diamond skin. Was 0 problem for my p/d thief. If I ran into one on my necro… I dont run dire so I do enough damage to pull him below 90%.

If I can’t, I will avoid the fight. Just like I avoid warriors on my condi thief, takes too long.

Improvise, adapt, overcome.

Can’t believe people are defending Diamond Skin. Its practically the definition of a badly designed game mechanic.

Lopez.7369:

Tibstrike.2974:

Or when he used a minion…did we watch the same video? Cuz I saw him drop the ele below 90% quite a few times. He just was really crappy on applying conditions when he did. Even when he had help from the thief and the ele was below 75% for quite some time he only got one condition on the ele. One. I think this guy is just a kittenty necro.

By himself, he dropped the elementalist below 90 percent once when the elementalist tanked flesh wurm and golem. In realistic scenarios, that’s never going to happen.

You’re also overestimating how quickly a necromancer can apply conditions to an elementalist that knows he can save all his cleansing for very brief, rare moments.

No I’m not. SoS applies a ton in like a second. Then you can drop 3 wells in less than 2 seconds. The ele was below 90% for over 3. Your friend here is a crap condimancer.

Tibstrike.2974:

Or when he used a minion…did we watch the same video? Cuz I saw him drop the ele below 90% quite a few times. He just was really crappy on applying conditions when he did. Even when he had help from the thief and the ele was below 75% for quite some time he only got one condition on the ele. One. I think this guy is just a kittenty necro.

My favorite is when he dropped him below 90 and left him with all the boons up despite have Corrupt on his bar. He didn’t even use his signet to load him up. Cannot fix bad play by removing or nerfing a trait.

Straegen.2938:

Tibstrike.2974:

Or when he used a minion…did we watch the same video? Cuz I saw him drop the ele below 90% quite a few times. He just was really crappy on applying conditions when he did. Even when he had help from the thief and the ele was below 75% for quite some time he only got one condition on the ele. One. I think this guy is just a kittenty necro.

My favorite is when he dropped him below 90 and left him with all the boons up despite have Corrupt on his bar. He didn’t even use his signet to load him up.

At this point I think Lopez is a troll.

Lopez.7369:

Khalic.3561:

Stand closer. Even with the base power of 916, at 600 range, against an ele with 2200 armour… You’ll still do around 650 damage. If you have even an ounce of crit chance or additional power, it should only take a couple shots.

If the ele is bunkered enough to take more hits, you’re in absolutely no danger anyway with your high armour and health pool.

EDIT: Damage formula for life blast at 600 or less is 1.4*power*weapon strength / armour.

No, it’s not enough to overcome passive healing.

Please don’t give that advice to other necromancers. You might mislead them. If anything, tell them to do Tainted Shackles into Life Transfer.

Do them all.

I honestly can’t fathom how you can not be able to produce 1.5k damage. Unless every single elementalist you’ve encountered is 0/0/30/30/10, running full soldiers or clerics, and focusing on nothing but healing.

Ive never had an issue with Diamond skin. I’ve even tested it with a guild mate. You only really have to do ~1.5-2.5k damage to get past the threshold. I believe every auto attack does some level of damage. You don’t have to switch entirely to power necro, just spend a bit of time initially doing a little bit of dps. As a condi engi (and a pretty nooby one at that admittingly), I still have no problem. I spam my pistol shots a few times, and Im in the clear.

in the end, if you notice an ele with it, STOP spamming your condi skills and just auto attack for a few seconds.

Lopez.7369:

Totbot.4583:

Can’t believe people are defending Diamond Skin. Its practically the definition of a badly designed game mechanic.

Yeah. I can’t imagine what compels people to defend such passive, thoughtless play. It’s disappointing.

Tibstrike.2974:

No I’m not. SoS applies a ton in like a second. Then you can drop 3 wells in less than 2 seconds. The ele was below 90% for over 3. Your friend here is a crap condimancer.

Only two wells do direct damage, and condition necromancers don’t take them. It also would be pretty embarrassing if an elementalist stood in a full Well of Suffering in a one-on-one against a class that doesn’t have a reliable immobilize.

Wut….I was talking about the condition based marks. Geez. The ele was below 90% for quite enough time to load the ele up with conditions. He even had boons that could be corrupted. This guy was making a video showing how someone who is purposely trying to lose to a Diamond Skin ele should work.

Lopez.7369:

Yeah. I can’t imagine what compels people to defend such passive, thoughtless play. It’s disappointing.

Having to keep your health above 90% for an entire fight isn’t exactly passive. To get this trait they most likely have slow attunement switching. Once they leave water, a condimancer with a modest adjustment has ample opportunity to beat them. Now a fully dire condimancer might have a tougher time but IMO a player should not have it both ways… full bunker and good DPS with no blind spots.

Still waiting on a couple videos… the one you listed wasn’t really a good test. Post that on the necro forums and see if I am right about that.

Derek.9021:

Straegen.2938:

I know this is somewhat worn out but rock meet paper.

Hard counters are terrible design.

This is the truth.

Lopez.7369:

Totbot.4583:

Can’t believe people are defending Diamond Skin. Its practically the definition of a badly designed game mechanic.

Yeah. I can’t imagine what compels people to defend such passive, thoughtless play. It’s disappointing.

Barbed Precision passively stacking bleeds because you have crit chance or dhuumfire proccing because you have crit chance. It is such active play to crit. Pot you seen Kettle?

I have a necro that I enjoy but let us be realistic here about passive play. Just about every build in the game takes advantage of something passive.

My initial reaction to Diamond Skin was that it was a hard counter and terrible for the game. Now I think it’s just terrible. Engi and ranger put out enough direct damage to break through it fairly easily, necro in dire gear can spam life blast for 1.4k crits and condi mesmers can die in a fire because kitten those dudes.

oZii.2864:

Barbed Precision passively stacking bleeds because you have crit chance or dhuumfire proccing because you have crit chance. It is such active play to crit. Pot you seen Kettle?

I have a necro that I enjoy but let us be realistic here about passive play. Just about every build in the game takes advantage of something passive.

I urge you to go into the Necro subforum – Dhuumfire fans are a hard catch.
And just because every build utilizes passive play doesn’t make it right. I’m all for removing passive traits – starting with Dhuumfire, Diamond Skin and Automated Response. Traits like Lotus Poison/Leg Specialist are much better, as they modify active play instead of erasing it.

Something else worth mentioning is this trait doesn’t exist in a solo fight vacuum. This is a GM trait requiring 30 points into earth to have new condition invuln for about 10% of a WvW fight if that. How often does a player only fight one other player without NPCs or others in the mix? This is a trait that is useless for much of WvW fighting.

Maybe in sPvP but WvW taking this over other GM options is probably a bad idea. I hate to say it but when was the last time when someone said “oh crap we are in trouble it is a D/D ele headed this way”? I am actually impressed now when I fight one that is good because they have been nerfed in the nerf. Some of their nerfs have been re-nerfed to make them nerfier.

I’d be in favor of them removing diamond skin if they nerfed condi necros, peplexity runes, condi engies, and pu mesmers. Until they get rid of all that overpowered BS im fine with having hard counters to them. Conditions are out of hand at this point and we need to shift out of the condition meta. If things like this will force people to stop mindlessly spamming conditions, so be it. You shouldn’t be able to to just sit there and rapidly eat away at someone passively with conditions while being tanky as hell. As OP as necros are at this point i’d even be in favor of them adding an item to the gem store you could consume that would make you 100% immune to conditions. I’d buy one for every character i have.

Tibstrike.2974:

It’s almost as if Anet is trying to stop the proliferation of condi-builds in WvW. Maybe now we will see less condi-necros. Maybe.

Personally, I’m fine with Diamond Skin. If you can’t chip away the 3-4k HP it takes to drop an ele to 90% then you are completely ignoring an entire part of the games damage system. You can still run condi damage heavy while still having a few attacks that can do damage.

Please tell me how you build an ele with 30-40k HP? The max I have reached is 26k.

Seigfried.5938:

Tibstrike.2974:

It’s almost as if Anet is trying to stop the proliferation of condi-builds in WvW. Maybe now we will see less condi-necros. Maybe.

Personally, I’m fine with Diamond Skin. If you can’t chip away the 3-4k HP it takes to drop an ele to 90% then you are completely ignoring an entire part of the games damage system. You can still run condi damage heavy while still having a few attacks that can do damage.

Please tell me how you build an ele with 30-40k HP? The max I have reached is 26k.

I can hit 30k buffed on my mesmer..so maybe its possible for ele with full sentinel armor and trinkets..? Either way, you can always quickly take down the 10% really fast. The only time I’ve seen it be really effective is when people just spam their hardest condi skills constantly blindly and without thought

Handin.4032:

Seigfried.5938:

Tibstrike.2974:

It’s almost as if Anet is trying to stop the proliferation of condi-builds in WvW. Maybe now we will see less condi-necros. Maybe.

Personally, I’m fine with Diamond Skin. If you can’t chip away the 3-4k HP it takes to drop an ele to 90% then you are completely ignoring an entire part of the games damage system. You can still run condi damage heavy while still having a few attacks that can do damage.

Please tell me how you build an ele with 30-40k HP? The max I have reached is 26k.

I can hit 30k buffed on my mesmer..so maybe its possible for ele with full sentinel armor and trinkets..? Either way, you can always quickly take down the 10% really fast. The only time I’ve seen it be really effective is when people just spam their hardest condi skills constantly blindly and without thought

But the base health of an ele is much lower than a mesmer’s.

So people are seriously crying about Automated Response?

Before you trash engieneer & their so called OP trait I invite you to play it.

Do you even look on how conditions are broken overall? Being able to stack 15+secs of immbolize is ridicoulsy…

Both Diamond Skin & Automated Response are easily bypassed, spending trait points on them it’s not the best option.

Most of WvWer’s are now traited & equipped to fight condition damage… you can tell what is actually broken.

WvW is not about 1v1 nor is tpvp or spvp.

The funny thing about this is how necros are crying about it, everytime a cheesy build is in the line of danger or gets easily countered every bad player will jump to defend it in anyway haha

Personally I’ve never tried a vitality build, my hp pool is about 15.5-16k, and even though automated response stops conditions from being applied, it doesn’t negate ones that were applied before it kicked in. I tried it out once even with my toughness build to test that out, and found I still got pwned with conditions when up against ppl who applied them in wvw. As an engineer, you’d need to have vitality gear to make it viable and even then it’d leave you pretty darn squishy. A very directed counter is what it is, and still risky. 25% hp even for 30k hp is 7.5k hp. If I were using this build Id aim to hit low hp around that mark, down elixir C and not heal after that, but if your opponent has enough power it could still be a gamble.

I vs’d an elementalist who used the diamond skin trait, and as a fellow condition damage character, I feel your pain. Even though I could very occassionally bring her far enough below 90% hp so that she had to run, she still bought enough time to get her heals up and get back the immunity. They have a trade off too though for this trait it would seem as she was not able to do very much damage at all to me, so it basically came to a draw as neither of us could win.

If you changed your build to do more power based damage, I’m sure you could bypass these problems. These builds are counters for condition damage, but leave a pretty big weakness for the character using them. The point of certain builds are to counter people, I beat that elementalist I was talking about 2-3 times before she came back with that build to counter me.

Funniest thing is that it is not condinecros but powernecros who are most hurt by this anti-condition hardcounter spam kitten.

I wish someone in dev team would actually play this game.

It is impossible to stay alive when your conditions, which are not meant to do dps but allow you to defend yourself, last like 0.003 seconds if they have any effect at all.

Straegen.2938:

Lopez.7369:

It is literally impossible to break Diamond Skin. There is plenty of video evidence out there.

a couple links would help make your point

Tibstrike.2974:

After watching your video it appears like the person was specifically avoiding any sort of damage centric skills. He kept using the condition marks and ignored his direct damage one. When he did finally drop it the ele lost about 5% of his HP. Use a freaking direct damage skill once in a while.

(22mins into the vid) He tries to lower the ele down with direct damage (life blast) while in a cond spec. It doesn’t work. I’ve tried bombs on my eng when in a cond spec and it doesn’t work either. Eles are just better at healing than eng/necro are at dealing direct damage while in a cond setup.

Passive immunity is rubbish and doesn’t give any sort of good play/counter play. It’s just hey I have this… tough kitten.

Derek.9021:

Being completely immune to conditions is shutting down condition builds while roaming.

The condition meta is OP as it is.. Try cheesing another build or so..

Tribio.8531:

Derek.9021:

Being completely immune to conditions is shutting down condition builds while roaming.

The condition meta is OP as it is.. Try cheesing another build or so..

In groups conds aren’t nearly as strong. It’s very much a direct damage meta when it comes to that.

I’m not against giving more options for condition removal… but passive immune isn’t the way to do it. That gives no play/counter play and that’s not a good way to balance. Changing it would potentially hurt two of my characters, but it would be better for the game as a whole.

I see you main ranger and command as a glass cannon. WvW says sorry

While I`m not convinced that diamond skin is overboard, it is really terrifying that so many people do not realize hardcounters are always bad for the game. There at least has to be a reasonable chance that the counter can be overcome by skill.

Whats worrying me is that with the introduction of more and more hardcounterish traits and skills Anet is balancing for the 99%, the scrubs. But balance is only achieveable at the top, where play is flawless enough to even recognize balance issues.

I`m a scrub, too, but I would never expect any serious developer to cater to my flawed play just because I make too many mistakes to overcome difficult situations. That`s what`s happening here: scrub cries, balance gets adjusted.

@ Jalmari:

Thanks for pointing that out. As a somewhat glassy hybrid necro I rely solely on my soft cc conditions to have any defense at all or to pindown for burst. Diamond skin, AR, Berserker stance all are neglecting any chance to control the fight. You know, conditions are not only damage but control as well.

Sorry, my class just doesn`t have enough hard cc to control the fight, all I have is soft cc conditions. Try catching up to an ele with 100% and diamond skin or AR engi or warrior with soft cc conditions, it won`t happen.

Is it really necessary to introduce so many skills that disadvantage control heavy soft cc specs just because damage conditions are overboard?

Best regards

Moon.6371:

While I`m not convinced that diamond skin is overboard, it is really terrifying that so many people do not realize hardcounters are always bad for the game. There at least has to be a reasonable chance that the counter can be overcome by skill.

Whats worrying me is that with the introduction of more and more hardcounterish traits and skills Anet is balancing for the 99%, the scrubs. But balance is only achieveable at the top, where play is flawless enough to even recognize balance issues.

I`m a scrub, too, but I would never expect any serious developer to cater to my flawed play just because I make too many mistakes to overcome difficult situations. That`s what`s happening here: scrub cries, balance gets adjusted.

The counter to diamond skin is direct damage. You apply direct damage diamond skin goes away therefore it is countered. If you don’t have direct damage diamond skin doesn’t go away.

The opposite coin is conditions which are a direct hard counter to toughness at least damaging ones are. Where as vitality and toughness help against direct damage. Vitality is better against conditions while toughness does absolutely nothing.

If I am running my thief as a hidden killer build may add more power or crit damage because I feel I need to break through bunker warriors or guards better with a backstab.

When I take that same thief and run him as condition damage I don’t even think about warrior or guardians toughness at all it is a non-factor.

People are using hard counters all the time in this game it runs through the game just this trait is highlighted now. Hard counters are what are giving you victory in a battle.

If I am out on my necro and I happen to be running corrupt boon, with the GG signet (spite). Prior to diamond skin I run across a guardian or elementalist I never thought to myself I am in for a tough fight. I thought “Oooh free bag”. I know my build hard counters their build because for a Ele to not run diamond skin and counter a condition necromancer needs off hand focus or enough dps to blow the necro up which means he is weak against just about anything with sustain like another more balanced elementalist.

I run greater marks on my necro I don’t run it because of the increased size I run it because it is unblockable therefore I hardcounter anyone with a block or aegis. People who take skills to block damage take those skills so that they can block damage. Greater marks hard counters their ability to block damage.

There are more little hard counters that happen through out battles and everyone uses them. There is rock/paper/scissors running all through this game they just aren’t as in your face as Diamond Skin but there are plenty of them used by everyone that is where the strategy comes into play.

Minions and AI is extremely passive and those could be brought down but passive is happening all the time and running through the game also. You actively apply your swiftness then you passively move faster for it’s duration you aren’t actively pressing buttons to continuously move faster. That is extreme example but a example. I need some healing let me do something to get some passive HPS via regen.

If you want everything to be active all the time you should play a fighting game.

I have no problem with diamond skin if it is going to cut down on the overwhelming amount of spamming and low skill floor specs you come across with the current condition heavy roaming scene. I played condition necro from launch to a few weeks after the dhuumfire patch when I realized that it’s a very strong, faceroll, spam through your skills spec that essentially ruined some of my favorite utility on necros so we could have more thoughtless conditions. I’ve since switched to a powermancer.

I don’t agree with how diamond skin works in that it is more passive play, but if it encourages less easy mode roaming specs then I will get over it. That being said I hope they get away from all passive play type traits and skills.

@ oZii:

I think you`re mixing it up quite a bit. I am aware that we are using hardcounters (somewhat) all the way. I just don`t see the trend of introducing more and more of it as a good thing for the game.

You are basically reiterating what you told the other guy. I get it, you want to bring your message across that we`re using hardcounters (in fact, I did not only mention DS but at least two more) not only since the introduction of DS. I was never questioning that from the beginning?!

“If you want everything to be active all the time you should play a fighting game.”

Where does that come from? I never stated I want everything to be active (well, it wouldn`t be bad for the game, but I didn`t state it in my previous post), my concern is, that the direction of patches is promoting passive play more and more, instead of promoting skillful (active) play…

How about appreciating other`s input, instead of trying to tell them what to play? Go play minecraft, look I can do it, too.

Best regards

Honestly I think ANet is trying to push people into hybrid builds (which is what I play now) and I dont see a problem with that.

Hard counters like condition immunity and endure pain (and other classes equivalents) really shut down on people who just stack one stat to rediculous OP levels, but are balanced, good but not OP against people who play in a more rounded way.

I really dont see whats wrong with creating hard counters to people who play a 1-trick build.

Moon.6371:

@ oZii:

I think you`re mixing it up quite a bit. I am aware that we are using hardcounters (somewhat) all the way. I just don`t see the trend of introducing more and more of it as a good thing for the game.

You are basically reiterating what you told the other guy. I get it, you want to bring your message across that we`re using hardcounters (in fact, I did not only mention DS but at least two more) not only since the introduction of DS. I was never questioning that from the beginning?!

“If you want everything to be active all the time you should play a fighting game.”

Where does that come from? I never stated I want everything to be active (well, it wouldn`t be bad for the game, but I didn`t state it in my previous post), my concern is, that the direction of patches is promoting passive play more and more, instead of promoting skillful (active) play…

How about appreciating other`s input, instead of trying to tell them what to play? Go play minecraft, look I can do it, too.

Best regards

I appreciate others input but what they are asking for is cake and to eat it too. You won’t get truly active play in MMO’s. People saying passive is bad are also using passive skills and traits. Pointing out diamond skin but not pointing out regen or protection or any boons or any condition damage. Truly active play requires a input for each action. If you are ok with putting a DOT on someone and watching it tick for 3k damage you should be ok with diamond skin they are both the same thing.

Yeah Diamond skin means condition necros have almost no chance:

The ele can casually just heal themselves and attack whilst the necro has to go full force against it.

Still going to hold that going 30 into earth to get DS in WvW is generally a bad idea. WvW has very few solo duels without NPCs or other players in the mix. Also a build that has to change a couple things up to handle another build should be common. No build should be able to walk through everything.

There may be a point in sPvP, but this isn’t the sPvP forum.

Eles have been getting 2 shot by glass thieves for 9 months now. Full health to downed in under 0.5 seconds, no time to even react.

Pardon me for not feeling sympathetic.

There are actually eles that go 30 into earth instead of using the other ways to make them almost immune to condition classes anyway? Why do they hurt themselves like this?
I do believe it’s bad design, but overall i haven’t met many players that were successful with this.

This whining about hard counters is hilarious. Condi classes have been hard countering the rest of the game for what, more than half a year? Were you guys rallying against that, too? Or were you too busy leveling up your necros/engis/mesmers?

This game has always had hard counters. It’s just the way the game is designed. Don’t whine now that you’re the one being countered.

@ oZii:

So you consider complete immunity (temporary) to one source of damage (there are just two) with not even having to press a button for it the pinnacle of MMO game balance and design? I do not, imo it`s the cheapest way to “balance” and certainly not promoting skilled play. Seems we just disagree here.

You can come again and try to put words in my mouth about that I want all active play, which never was the case. But within a reasonable framework of actives and passives, actives should be favoured by the designers to promote good play.

And similarily, complete immunities shouldn`t be necessary, if conditions would be implemented properly. Making someone immune to conditions does not only shut down that damage incoming, but since cc is labeled condition in this game, it also prevents getting cc´ed. That alone is crazy.

But hey, wvw doenst even have a balancing team, so why am I talking again?

Best regards.

Diamond Skin is pathetic and yet I am still running it on my Elementalist.
So why do I run it?
Because going full condi-bunker and being able to stack 19 seconds of each condition (except burning) with Signet of Spite is just as ridiculous.
This way of balancing is the worst approach possible, but apparently this is the way Anet has chosen to balance the game, and since people are still running condi-bunkers I’ll run Diamond Skin.
Also: Please keep in mind that there is no such thing as balance in WvW. The stats are off the charts and there are food buffs that grant +40% condition duration, which is 10% more than 30 trait-points.
If you want to discuss actual balance then refer to sPvP.

KrisHQ.4719:

…
Because going full condi-bunker and being able to stack 19 seconds of each condition (except burning) with Signet of Spite is just as ridiculous.

You might confuse signet of spite with a nuclear missile.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_spite

It applies 2 stacks of bleed and poison along with cover conditions. It is dodgeable and has a 60s (48 if traited) cooldown.

Monkeymonger.9235:

KrisHQ.4719:

…
Because going full condi-bunker and being able to stack 19 seconds of each condition (except burning) with Signet of Spite is just as ridiculous.

You might confuse signet of spite with a nuclear missile.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_spite

It applies 2 stacks of bleed and poison along with cover conditions. It is dodgeable and has a 60s (48 if traited) cooldown.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQFAmiMaF7JAoHAAAARKAAAKFAAAA-jUwA13ioxKFAMLrA-w
Problem?
Sure it is dodgeable, but with such an animation it might as well have been instant in anything but 1v1’s.

you would be very very bad if you cant down just 10% of ele hp ..

otherwise learn to play man mode ( Raw Dps )

Derek.9021:

People seem to rally behind anything anti-condition, but Automated Response and Diamond Skin are going too far with it.

Being completely immune to conditions is shutting down condition builds while roaming.

They’re both really awful traits to take in groups because you’re going to take a lot of all types of damage, but while roaming, they’re the most over powered traits in the game to condi builds.

I wouldn’t mind them being like berserker stance as a passive on an internal CD, but permanent immunity to a primary type of damage is the most horribly designed thing I’ve ever experienced (not a hyperbole).

Anet has broken condition builds in PvE with bleed cap and objects not taking condition damage, now they’ve done it in PvP. Please stop.

As much as I agree with you, at least your not killing yourself off much like AoE does against retaliation. Now imagine if diamond skin turned the damage against you…

oooh, I would like that

I haven’t even seen a build using it that’s somewhat viable and not just a troll build against baddie pure condi players.

Going 30 into Earth severely gimps you at doing anything else.

Maybe they can think about adjusting it when condition tanks aren’t the solution to everything else.

Or maybe condition necros should invest in some power?

ITT: bad players. Diamond Skin rocks and I don’t even play ele.

ITT: People who think going 30 in earth leads to any kind of viable competitive build. Not sure we’re playing the same game.

Omaris Mortuus Est.2738:

Yeah Diamond skin means condition necros have almost no chance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zKIo4MlZ9U

The ele can casually just heal themselves and attack whilst the necro has to go full force against it.

I cannot take this video serious… 22 mins in he “tries” to drop ele below 90%… Not once does he us death shroud #4. Mindlessly spamming crappy attacks to try and lower 2k life, you sir have failed.

Also, everyone keeps mentioning ele passive healing, since when does ele have passive healing? Ele has to work for kills, using 20+ skills just to kill someone. Necro complaining you can no longer drop a few skills to win? Adapt, learn, it is what all us Ele’s do after people complain till Anet nerfs our class more. We have been nerfed in every aspect, and p.s. Diamond Skin is a joke unless you go full apothecary bunker/heal, even then, good luck killing anyone.