Guild Wars 2

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

However that should clear that up. So yes, seriously. Hey it’s early, I could be wrong. Please correct me.

You’re not wrong at all, I hope more people look into the math on this. Ascended stats, consumables, sigil stacks, and guards stacks all incrementally add up to a ridiculous sum. Sure, player skill will still prevail in most situations, but since the most skilled players tend to spend the most time playing, all it’s doing is making it easier to beat down players who have less time to play. This has been the folly of PvP in most MMOs.

Amazingly, Anet was the first to say no mas to this with a major AAA title, and yet here we are, with the devs continuing to double down on grind at every turn…

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear.

Perhaps decreasing the required time needed to acquire every next slot fo that gear would also lessen the problem. Instead each new batch of ascended items gets harder and harder to acquire, which makes it worse and worse.

In short, “time spent acquiring ascended gear”is in itself a problem that needs to be eliminated, not accerbated even further. Explaining that to eliminate one problem you’d need to get rid of another problem you introduced is an argument for the change, not against it.

Also, ascended gear being available through multitude of ways is something that has been constantly promised since it’s first release. Haven’t noticed much effort put into it so far.

[thread]

Well, back to PvP.

DevonCarver.5370:

Speaking as someone who has only gotten Ascended gear via WvW vendors, I’d say that’s nonsense. Speaking as a developer, we are continuing to make this better, which is not to say perfect. There will be more ways to acquire the ascended mats as part of the season and we will look into adding yet additional ways after that.

It would be really cool if you actually start thinking about the consequences and how to fix it BEFORE you implement something, not after.

“yeah, we’ll get ascended in. I know we’re going to screw up people that want to play wvw but we’ll think about how to fix it eventually”.

That’s all I’ve been reading on this forum for about a month now. And nothing has been done. Just as expected.

DevonCarver.5370:

Shiren.9532:

I primarily PvE but I still don’t see the actions over the last year as reasonable attempts to make ascended items fairly available to WvW players. I don’t care what you’d like to do, I only care about what you actually do.

Speaking as someone who has only gotten Ascended gear via WvW vendors, I’d say that’s nonsense. Speaking as a developer, we are continuing to make this better, which is not to say perfect. There will be more ways to acquire the ascended mats as part of the season and we will look into adding yet additional ways after that.

So you got an ascended back piece from WvW?

I didn’t think so.

Months have gone by and still no back piece…

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

Is that ever going to happen? The rewards for WvW are grossly understated compared to PvE. Each and every house I WvW, someone spending the same time in PvE is getting 5x or more than me. Not only that, they are doing it by tackling mindkitten ring, and repetitive content.

Simply put, you are blowing smoke up our respective kittens once again.

Also, you made the discrepancy vastly worse when you added ascended gear. You could have at least normalized the rewards for that from the get go. You chose not to and the fact remains that I can get vastly more of the materials I need through PvE in the same amount of time…. as in not even close.

If they’re going to downscale ascended to exotics with the backing of claiming how ascended items are suppose to be pve feature items. They might as remove rewards from wvw that contain pve items, since most pve items we get in wvw can somehow and ultimately result to ascended gear (salvaging gear for magic find which can be used in pve or gold/karma/mats). Since people apparently like limiting wvw so bad to a scale, why not disable possible tp purchased items from wvw as well since they are pve items. Make wvw it’s own set of stats and char info then reset our characters, lets all be naked while we raid wvw, don’t even give us a kitten weapon, everything we can wear should be from effing badges! We’ll be scaled there……Oh wait we have that, spvp.

Ascended items just released, the prices to craft them is player base, anet even throws out nearly free ascended trinkets, no ones complaining about scaling those to exotics now are they (after being out for plenty of months).

Stop the complaining. Some of you want lemonade but complain about the lemon.

guys wouldn’t be easier to make those “ascended gear” salable so everyone can buy it on the TP and lower met’s price (mats to take crafting to 500) and/or make ascended mats salable this will make all easier for everyone and a lot cheaper for those which haven’t weaponcraft etc.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

So you’re okay with the WvW game being about gear and stat advantages, rather than skill or fun? Good to know that I will be at a continual disadvantage in WvW because I refuse to grind for gear. I specifically came to this game to avoid gear grinds.

>complains about people having better gear
>refuses to get better gear

You best be trollan son.

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

So you’re okay with the WvW game being about gear and stat advantages, rather than skill or fun? Good to know that I will be at a continual disadvantage in WvW because I refuse to grind for gear. I specifically came to this game to avoid gear grinds.

>complains about people having better gear
>refuses to get better gear

You best be trollan son.

What if I told you, a competitive spirit does not find satisfaction in winning from an unfair advantage?

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

So you’re okay with the WvW game being about gear and stat advantages, rather than skill or fun? Good to know that I will be at a continual disadvantage in WvW because I refuse to grind for gear. I specifically came to this game to avoid gear grinds.

>complains about people having better gear
>refuses to get better gear

You best be trollan son.

What if I told you, a competitive spirit does not find satisfaction in winning from an unfair advantage?

By this logic, one would never play WvW in the first place, because of uplevels.

At the macro level, the disadvantage is mutual. Your opponent will have uplevelled characters in their zerg, or people with bad builds or stats, but so will yours.

Why is that I feel like the feedback system we essentially have in GW2 (WvW) is similar to:

All of us standing in a line outside the dev office, while we are told they will “be with us in a moment”, all the while they are furiously working away at what they think is good for WvW.

When they finally get time for us they (and we) all realize that most of that furious work they were doing while we waited to be acknowledged, was not at all what the majority of players wanted in the first place. (some of which is the exact opposite)

The long and short of it, is that this is ANETs game, they will do with it how they see fit and we realistically have little to no say. And when we do get ideas across it is either “no feasible” or “taken into consideration”, then the next month we get color changes and new treadmills that pull us out of WvW to grind for.

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

So you’re okay with the WvW game being about gear and stat advantages, rather than skill or fun? Good to know that I will be at a continual disadvantage in WvW because I refuse to grind for gear. I specifically came to this game to avoid gear grinds.

>complains about people having better gear
>refuses to get better gear

You best be trollan son.

What if I told you, a competitive spirit does not find satisfaction in winning from an unfair advantage?

By this logic, one would never play WvW in the first place, because of uplevels.

At the macro level, the disadvantage is mutual. Your opponent will have uplevelled characters in their zerg, or people with bad builds or stats.

Guess what? So will your zerg.

There is a threshold here where leveling and exotic weapons are ok but ascended is too much. There are tons of ways to level and get exotic gear quickly, but ascended is far too narrow and forces you into doing certain things, or time-gates. The game is well-balanced and designed for leveling and exotics; it is not for ascended.

And lol at assuming I run in a zerg.

By extension legendaries should be nerfed in WvW as well.

No.

As an XvX player the irony is that WvW has been dropping LOADS of empyreal fragments etc. compared to PvE: to the point where I would hypothetically recommend PvE players farm WvW for them. I really don’t know where this complaint comes from because it’s not based in reality.

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

So you’re okay with the WvW game being about gear and stat advantages, rather than skill or fun? Good to know that I will be at a continual disadvantage in WvW because I refuse to grind for gear. I specifically came to this game to avoid gear grinds.

>complains about people having better gear
>refuses to get better gear

You best be trollan son.

What if I told you, a competitive spirit does not find satisfaction in winning from an unfair advantage?

By this logic, one would never play WvW in the first place, because of uplevels.

At the macro level, the disadvantage is mutual. Your opponent will have uplevelled characters in their zerg, or people with bad builds or stats.

Guess what? So will your zerg.

There is a threshold here where leveling and exotic weapons are ok but ascended is too much. There are tons of ways to level and get exotic gear quickly, but ascended is far too narrow and forces you into doing certain things, or time-gates. The game is well-balanced and designed for leveling and exotics; it is not for ascended.

That’s your problem, not ANet’s. If you are unwilling to do what it takes to get Ascended gear (which really isn’t that hard at all, to be honest), that is a decision you chose to make.

And lol at assuming I run in a zerg.

Your individual gameplay habits are irrelevant to that point. If you want personal victories with a guaranteed even playing field (at least equipment, stats wise) there’s always sPvP.

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

So you’re okay with the WvW game being about gear and stat advantages, rather than skill or fun? Good to know that I will be at a continual disadvantage in WvW because I refuse to grind for gear. I specifically came to this game to avoid gear grinds.

>complains about people having better gear
>refuses to get better gear

You best be trollan son.

What if I told you, a competitive spirit does not find satisfaction in winning from an unfair advantage?

By this logic, one would never play WvW in the first place, because of uplevels.

At the macro level, the disadvantage is mutual. Your opponent will have uplevelled characters in their zerg, or people with bad builds or stats.

Guess what? So will your zerg.

There is a threshold here where leveling and exotic weapons are ok but ascended is too much. There are tons of ways to level and get exotic gear quickly, but ascended is far too narrow and forces you into doing certain things, or time-gates. The game is well-balanced and designed for leveling and exotics; it is not for ascended.

That’s your problem, not ANet’s. If you are unwilling to do what it takes to get Ascended gear (which really isn’t that hard at all, to be honest), that is a decision you chose to make.

And lol at assuming I run in a zerg.

Your individual gameplay habits are irrelevant to that point. If you want personal victories with a guaranteed even playing field (at least equipment, stats wise) there’s always sPvP.

Please, farming mats and nodes and crafting? Of course it isn’t hard, it’s mind-numbingly dull. I chose to not lower myself to doing chores in my free time, and while I don’t mind other people being rewarded for mindless work I object to it being the only way to be rewarded.

And PvP is an option but 5-man teams and 10 minute matches make it feel more like a minigame mode.

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

So you’re okay with the WvW game being about gear and stat advantages, rather than skill or fun? Good to know that I will be at a continual disadvantage in WvW because I refuse to grind for gear. I specifically came to this game to avoid gear grinds.

>complains about people having better gear
>refuses to get better gear

You best be trollan son.

What if I told you, a competitive spirit does not find satisfaction in winning from an unfair advantage?

By this logic, one would never play WvW in the first place, because of uplevels.

At the macro level, the disadvantage is mutual. Your opponent will have uplevelled characters in their zerg, or people with bad builds or stats.

Guess what? So will your zerg.

There is a threshold here where leveling and exotic weapons are ok but ascended is too much. There are tons of ways to level and get exotic gear quickly, but ascended is far too narrow and forces you into doing certain things, or time-gates. The game is well-balanced and designed for leveling and exotics; it is not for ascended.

That’s your problem, not ANet’s. If you are unwilling to do what it takes to get Ascended gear (which really isn’t that hard at all, to be honest), that is a decision you chose to make.

And lol at assuming I run in a zerg.

Your individual gameplay habits are irrelevant to that point. If you want personal victories with a guaranteed even playing field (at least equipment, stats wise) there’s always sPvP.

Please, farming mats and nodes and crafting? Of course it isn’t hard, it’s mind-numbingly dull. I chose to not lower myself to doing chores in my free time, and while I don’t mind other people being rewarded for mindless work I object to it being the only way to be rewarded.

The only thing I ever had to farm was Ori nodes. Maybe they changed something so idk how it is now, but when I was doing it, an Ori run took me all of thirty minutes and would give me somewhere between thirty and fifty chunks of ore. Then boom, I’m back in WvW for the rest of the day and don’t bother ori farming again until after server reset.

The problem here isn’t the game, it’s your expectations. You simply aren’t willing to do what it takes to attain ascended equipment. That’s your prerogative, but it isn’t a reason to make it easier to get, or to downscale in WvW (again, the presence of uplevels in WvW at all makes this a silly thing to even suggest).

And I raid with a guild of ~15 people busting much larger groups. I can’t get this in s/tPvP, and I wouldn’t be playing anymore if I hadn’t been addicted to this.

So let me get this straight: because you only enjoy one incredibly narrow aspect of the game (in this case, WvW under very specific circumstances) ascended gear is unfair?

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

Peoples time is constantly being invalidated. The very addition of Ascended gear has invalidated all the time i spend gathering my exotic gear, getting the skins i like and spending the gems/money to transmute said skins.

Buffs, changes and nerfs to runes and gear invalidate time spend getting them, for example magicfind gear.
Also i cannot get Givers Ascended weapons as such i would either be unable to upgrade to ascended or be forced to redo a large part of my gear and runes. Just because.

Buffs and nerfs to professions invalidates time people spend. You worked to make a certain build on a certain profession and it gets nerfed, you might not enjoy it anymore or it simply doesnt work anymore. Forcing you to rethink spec, regear and get new runes.

Devon, Arenanet devs are constantly invalidating peoples time with buffs, nerfs and otherwise game changes and design descisions. But this, this right here, this is the thing thats a step to far?
But i do agree that it would be far more desireable to simply buff up the reward of WvW to get close to that of PvE. Unfortunatly we’ve been waiting for over a year now, efforts have been made. But nothing that brought it anywhere close, and since the whole Queens events PvE has gotten a big buffs once more. Widening the gap even further.

DevonCarver.5370:

Speaking as someone who has only gotten Ascended gear via WvW vendors, I’d say that’s nonsense. Speaking as a developer, we are continuing to make this better, which is not to say perfect. There will be more ways to acquire the ascended mats as part of the season and we will look into adding yet additional ways after that.

I also have only gotten Ascended gear from WvW vendors. This means i am still missing a Backslot and a Weapon.

Terrahero.9358:

The very addition of Ascended gear has invalidated all the time i spend gathering my exotic gear, getting the skins i like and spending the gems/money to transmute said skins.

Exotic gear is easy to craft and doesn’t require much grind at all.

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

So you’re okay with the WvW game being about gear and stat advantages, rather than skill or fun? Good to know that I will be at a continual disadvantage in WvW because I refuse to grind for gear. I specifically came to this game to avoid gear grinds.

>complains about people having better gear
>refuses to get better gear

You best be trollan son.

What if I told you, a competitive spirit does not find satisfaction in winning from an unfair advantage?

By this logic, one would never play WvW in the first place, because of uplevels.

At the macro level, the disadvantage is mutual. Your opponent will have uplevelled characters in their zerg, or people with bad builds or stats.

Guess what? So will your zerg.

There is a threshold here where leveling and exotic weapons are ok but ascended is too much. There are tons of ways to level and get exotic gear quickly, but ascended is far too narrow and forces you into doing certain things, or time-gates. The game is well-balanced and designed for leveling and exotics; it is not for ascended.

That’s your problem, not ANet’s. If you are unwilling to do what it takes to get Ascended gear (which really isn’t that hard at all, to be honest), that is a decision you chose to make.

And lol at assuming I run in a zerg.

Your individual gameplay habits are irrelevant to that point. If you want personal victories with a guaranteed even playing field (at least equipment, stats wise) there’s always sPvP.

Please, farming mats and nodes and crafting? Of course it isn’t hard, it’s mind-numbingly dull. I chose to not lower myself to doing chores in my free time, and while I don’t mind other people being rewarded for mindless work I object to it being the only way to be rewarded.

The only thing I ever had to farm was Ori nodes. Maybe they changed something so idk how it is now, but when I was doing it, an Ori run took me all of thirty minutes and would give me somewhere between thirty and fifty chunks of ore. Then boom, I’m back in WvW for the rest of the day and don’t bother ori farming again until after server reset.

The problem here isn’t the game, it’s your expectations. You simply aren’t willing to do what it takes to attain ascended equipment. That’s your prerogative, but it isn’t a reason to make it easier to get, or to downscale in WvW (again, the presence of uplevels in WvW at all makes this a silly thing to even suggest).

And I raid with a guild of ~15 people busting much larger groups. I can’t get this in s/tPvP, and I wouldn’t be playing anymore if I hadn’t been addicted to this.

So let me get this straight: because you only enjoy one incredibly narrow aspect of the game (in this case, WvW under very specific circumstances) ascended gear is unfair?

We can dance around all day about ‘rewards’ and ‘deserving’ but when it comes down to it, it simply offers nothing for WvW play. The real problem seems to be that some people need to feel like they have better stats in order to feel good about themselves.

luckywaldo.6089:

We can dance around all day about ‘rewards’ and ‘deserving’ but when it comes down to it, it simply offers nothing for WvW play. The real problem seems to be that some people need to feel like they have better stats in order to feel good about themselves.

I agree in general that WvW needs to be more rewarding compared to PvE. I agree that the income discrepancy is insane. But I don’t agree that any of this is justification to nerf ascended gear for WvW, nor do I think that people who resolutely refuse to PvE at all should be catered to specifically.

I got most of my ascended gear before they made them available with badges, but the real limiting factor wasn’t “how much time I wanted to spend PvEing,” it was laurels. I probably did 20-25 hours of fractals, and maybe another 10ish of Ori farming, but I spread that out over the span of several weeks. I did maybe four or five hours of PvE a week, the rest of my time was spent in WvW.

Arkanfel.8403:

Terrahero.9358:

The very addition of Ascended gear has invalidated all the time i spend gathering my exotic gear, getting the skins i like and spending the gems/money to transmute said skins.

Exotic gear is easy to craft and doesn’t require much grind at all.

Thats your opinion and far from the truth. Tell the people who had to grind, and grind, and grind for passiflora back when it was a super rare drop about how their gear totally isnt a grind.

Some exotics are easy to get. Others much harder, or a lot more expensive. And then we havent even considered getting and transmuting the visual appearances you like. That are all being invalidated by the mere addition of Ascended gear.

But that wasnt the point. The point was Anet hasnt let “invalidating players time spend” been a factor for countles other changes they pushed through.

Terrahero.9358:

Thats your opinion and far from the truth.

Interesting theory.

Some exotics are easy to get.

…that you promptly discard

Others much harder, or a lot more expensive.

Welcome to gaming.

And then we havent even considered getting and transmuting the visual appearances you like. That are all being invalidated by the mere addition of Ascended gear.

nope.avi

A competent player can survive just fine in exotic gear. I did it for months, both with PVT and without, with both hard targets (guardian) and soft (elementalist).

But that wasnt the point. The point was Anet hasnt let “invalidating players time spend” been a factor for countles other changes they pushed through.

Again, you’re not “invalidated” by the mere presence of ascended gear. If you are in full exotics with the right stats for your build, you will do just fine in WvW.

The brutal truth here is that people who don’t have ascended gear (and there is at least one of them in this thread, who I quoted earlier, that seems to actively refuse the idea of procuring it) aren’t qualified to determine how powerful it is in WvW. I have played both with and without ascended gear for months and while it would be a lie to say ascended isn’t better, it isn’t game-breaking either.

The stat difference is no big deal. If you put in the time to get an ascended weapon, then you get the benefit.

I’ll roll with my exotics to test new builds. /shrugs don’t see what the big deal is.

If it’s “no big deal”, “doesn’t matter”, and “doesn’t make much difference” then what is the point of getting ascended gear and why do you care so much if they downgrade it?

Dark Catalyst.1028:

If it’s “no big deal”, “doesn’t matter”, and “doesn’t make much difference” then what is the point of getting ascended gear and why do you care so much if they downgrade it?

The meaning I took from that post was that ascended gear doesn’t make you OP, and that the people complaining about the difference between exotic and ascended are making a bigger deal out of it than is warranted.

All this crying.

X player got Y item before me! Nerf him or buff me!
Really, enjoy the game. Ever since Devon headed up the WvW development he has consistently made it easier and easier to get rewards via WvW. To say otherwise is simply false.

That is why I trust that he’ll try to make it more on-par with PvE. For those that refuse to do crafting to get the ascended items … you have absolutely no reason to complain then. If you refuse to use a part of the game then you should not be rewarded for it.

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

If it’s “no big deal”, “doesn’t matter”, and “doesn’t make much difference” then what is the point of getting ascended gear and why do you care so much if they downgrade it?

The meaning I took from that post was that ascended gear doesn’t make you OP, and that the people complaining about the difference between exotic and ascended are making a bigger deal out of it than is warranted.

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

It means an automatic win against an equally skilled or slightly more skilled player.

How about we REALLY not make it OP by having everyone play on an even field?

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

If it’s “no big deal”, “doesn’t matter”, and “doesn’t make much difference” then what is the point of getting ascended gear and why do you care so much if they downgrade it?

The meaning I took from that post was that ascended gear doesn’t make you OP, and that the people complaining about the difference between exotic and ascended are making a bigger deal out of it than is warranted.

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

It means an automatic win against an equally skilled or slightly more skilled player.

How about we REALLY not make it OP by having everyone play on an even field?

Because we’re not on an even playing field even with downscaled ascended gear. You can WvW naked and/or straight out of the tutorial mission. If you want an “even field,” play sPvP. World versus World is essentially GW2’s version of open-world PvP.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

That math is done purely on weapon comparison, it isn’t then matched against over-all stats.

The attack gained from exotic to ascended was ~55. Depending on your spec, thats 0.5-2%. The major stat gain is 0.5%, the minor stat gain is even less. Of your overall stats.

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

If it’s “no big deal”, “doesn’t matter”, and “doesn’t make much difference” then what is the point of getting ascended gear and why do you care so much if they downgrade it?

The meaning I took from that post was that ascended gear doesn’t make you OP, and that the people complaining about the difference between exotic and ascended are making a bigger deal out of it than is warranted.

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

It means an automatic win against an equally skilled or slightly more skilled player.

How about we REALLY not make it OP by having everyone play on an even field?

Because we’re not on an even playing field even with downscaled ascended gear. You can WvW naked and/or straight out of the tutorial mission. If you want an “even field,” play sPvP. World versus World is essentially GW2’s counterpart to open-world PvP.

Really, all of this sounds like an excuse to have a continual advantage over players who refuse to grind (because we were fooled by ANet). Maybe you should play WoW, where that type of thing is rampant? Go grind conquest point gear and stomp people in blues in battlegrounds. Because that’s fun, apparently. Well, to be fair, fun for YOU.

Vena.8436:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

That math is done purely on weapon comparison, it isn’t then matched against over-all stats.

The attack gained from exotic to ascended was ~55. Depending on your spec, thats 0.5-2%. The major stat gain is 0.5%, the minor stat gain is even less. Of your overall stats.

Again, if it is actually, “only” 0.5-2%, then what does it matter if it’s downgraded?

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

If it’s “no big deal”, “doesn’t matter”, and “doesn’t make much difference” then what is the point of getting ascended gear and why do you care so much if they downgrade it?

The meaning I took from that post was that ascended gear doesn’t make you OP, and that the people complaining about the difference between exotic and ascended are making a bigger deal out of it than is warranted.

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

It means an automatic win against an equally skilled or slightly more skilled player.

How about we REALLY not make it OP by having everyone play on an even field?

Because we’re not on an even playing field even with downscaled ascended gear. You can WvW naked and/or straight out of the tutorial mission. If you want an “even field,” play sPvP. World versus World is essentially GW2’s version of open-world PvP.

I am willing to place down money that the * most common denominator * in WvW is level 80 in exotics.

Again, if it is actually, “only” 0.5-2%, then what does it matter if it’s downgraded?

THIS

It’s nonsense to say both that ascended should not be downscaled and that it makes no difference.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

If it’s “no big deal”, “doesn’t matter”, and “doesn’t make much difference” then what is the point of getting ascended gear and why do you care so much if they downgrade it?

The meaning I took from that post was that ascended gear doesn’t make you OP, and that the people complaining about the difference between exotic and ascended are making a bigger deal out of it than is warranted.

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

It means an automatic win against an equally skilled or slightly more skilled player.

How about we REALLY not make it OP by having everyone play on an even field?

Because we’re not on an even playing field even with downscaled ascended gear. You can WvW naked and/or straight out of the tutorial mission. If you want an “even field,” play sPvP. World versus World is essentially GW2’s counterpart to open-world PvP.

Really, all of this sounds like an excuse to have a continual advantage over players who refuse to grind (because we were fooled by ANet). Maybe you should play WoW, where that type of thing is rampant? Go grind conquest point gear and stomp people in blues in battlegrounds. Because that’s fun, apparently. Well, to be fair, fun for YOU.

>make bad argument
>get cornered on it
>call it “excuses”

Is turnabout fair play? Because what you are doing, essentially, is whining because you aren’t willing to get ascended gear, and making excuses for why you shouldn’t have to.

The work required to level a toon to 80 and gear it with exotics doesn’t matter to you, for no better reason than you have already done it. Think for a moment about what you might say to someone who was level 5 with starting weapons, complaining about how he was getting facerolled just because people played more frequently/had better gear.

This is how players with ascended gear feel about you, and (I assume for most of us) the thread in general. Nothing but QQ.

Arkanfel.8403:

Because what you are doing, essentially, is whining because you aren’t willing to get ascended gear.

This.

Altie.4571:

Arkanfel.8403:

Because what you are doing, essentially, is whining because you aren’t willing to get ascended gear.

This.

And the other side is whining that doing mindless tasks should get them special advantages.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Again, if it is actually, “only” 0.5-2%, then what does it matter if it’s downgraded?

Because such an argument is pointless fodder: It’s “only” X% between any of the tiers!

So why even have gear at all?

luckywaldo.6089:

Altie.4571:

Arkanfel.8403:

Because what you are doing, essentially, is whining because you aren’t willing to get ascended gear.

This.

And the other side is whining that doing mindless tasks should get them special advantages.

No, the other side is saying that if you want ascended gear, you go get it. What is “mindless” and what isn’t is entirely subjective. If you don’t like the system maybe that’s fair, but nerfing it for those that went and got it done just because you don’t want to isn’t.

I personally do agree that PvE is too much more rewarding than WvW, and I found the laurel cost for badge-acquired ascended trinkets to be too high (and the badge cost too low). I think Anet made a huge mistake in making ascended gear only available through fractals at first. But for my money none of that translates into “we should nerf it in WvW.” To their credit, as near as I can tell Anet has realized these mistakes and is attempting to address them.

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

If it’s “no big deal”, “doesn’t matter”, and “doesn’t make much difference” then what is the point of getting ascended gear and why do you care so much if they downgrade it?

The meaning I took from that post was that ascended gear doesn’t make you OP, and that the people complaining about the difference between exotic and ascended are making a bigger deal out of it than is warranted.

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

It means an automatic win against an equally skilled or slightly more skilled player.

How about we REALLY not make it OP by having everyone play on an even field?

Because we’re not on an even playing field even with downscaled ascended gear. You can WvW naked and/or straight out of the tutorial mission. If you want an “even field,” play sPvP. World versus World is essentially GW2’s counterpart to open-world PvP.

Really, all of this sounds like an excuse to have a continual advantage over players who refuse to grind (because we were fooled by ANet). Maybe you should play WoW, where that type of thing is rampant? Go grind conquest point gear and stomp people in blues in battlegrounds. Because that’s fun, apparently. Well, to be fair, fun for YOU.

>make bad argument
>get cornered on it
>call it “excuses”

Is turnabout fair play? Because what you are doing, essentially, is whining because you aren’t willing to get ascended gear, and making excuses for why you shouldn’t have to.

The work required to level a toon to 80 and gear it with exotics doesn’t matter to you, for no better reason than you have already done it. Think for a moment about what you might say to someone who was level 5 with starting weapons, complaining about how he was getting facerolled just because people played more frequently/had better gear.

This is how players with ascended gear feel about you, and (I assume for most of us) the thread in general. Nothing but QQ.

We’re not talking about being level 5 and leveling to 80. We’re talking about the role of ascended gear in WvW and how it deviates from the developers’ previous statements on the matter.

I really don’t get why people are so against a fair game and how they can hold these two conflicting ideas in their minds: That ascended “doesn’t matter” in WvW, but yet they get it because it provides a tangible stat advantage.

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Altie.4571:

Arkanfel.8403:

Because what you are doing, essentially, is whining because you aren’t willing to get ascended gear.

This.

And the other side is whining that doing mindless tasks should get them special advantages.

No, the other side is saying that if you want ascended gear, you go get it. What is “mindless” and what isn’t is entirely subjective. If you don’t like the system maybe that’s fair, but nerfing it for those that went and got it done just because you don’t want to isn’t.

I personally do agree that PvE is too much more rewarding than WvW, and I found the laurel cost for badge-acquired ascended trinkets to be too high (and the badge cost too low). I think Anet made a huge mistake in making ascended gear only available through fractals at first. But for my money none of that translates into “we should nerf it in WvW.” To their credit, as near as I can tell Anet has realized these mistakes and is attempting to address them.

Ok, so you are whining about people potentially getting gear equal to you without going through the ascended crafting process that you did. That is telling enough on two fronts:
1) The stat difference matters (although I don’t think we were really disputing this anyway)
2) The ascended crafting process is not fun (you need the better stats in WvW as a ‘reward’ after all)

It’s likely been said thousands of times already, but this is simply Skinner’s box design. Yes it’s extremely pervasive in MMO, but that does not make it healthy, and I don’t think supporting this design is healthy for the game or the gaming industry in general.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

We’re not talking about being level 5 and leveling to 80. We’re talking about the role of ascended gear in WvW and how it deviates from the developers’ previous statements on the matter.

Then you completely missed the point of my comparison. I was pointing out that, as a measure of becoming effective in WvW, you’re already pretty much there simply by being 80 with exotic gear. If you don’t PvE or craft (which some people apparently think they should never be “forced” to do), the time and effort spent getting to the level cap and gearing yourself with exotics is going to be considerable. Not only that, you will be killed many times by players through no fault of your own, simply because they are stronger than you.

What you are doing here is arbitrarily applying the “fair game” standard. If you want an even playing field in WvW, you should also be arguing for the elimination of uplevels, which would—ironically—actually emphasize the role of “forced” PvE in terms of end WvW effectiveness.

luckywaldo.6089:

Ok, so you are whining about people potentially getting gear equal to you without going through the ascended crafting process that you did.

What? I don’t have an ascended weapon yet. I haven’t done the crafting, and now that I think about it I’m pretty sure the Ori farming I mentioned earlier was for my first couple sets of exotics. I don’t know why I brought that up in this context, probably because I was high.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vena.8436:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

That math is done purely on weapon comparison, it isn’t then matched against over-all stats.

The attack gained from exotic to ascended was ~55. Depending on your spec, thats 0.5-2%. The major stat gain is 0.5%, the minor stat gain is even less. Of your overall stats.

Again, if it is actually, “only” 0.5-2%, then what does it matter if it’s downgraded?

Since it doesn’t matter, why should we bother with downgrading just to satisfy a few people?

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Ok, so you are whining about people potentially getting gear equal to you without going through the ascended crafting process that you did.

What? I don’t have an ascended weapon yet. I haven’t done the crafting, and now that I think about it I’m pretty sure the Ori farming I mentioned earlier was for my first couple sets of exotics. I don’t know why I brought that up in this context, probably because I was high.

That’s one way to deal with farming I suppose.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vena.8436:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

That math is done purely on weapon comparison, it isn’t then matched against over-all stats.

The attack gained from exotic to ascended was ~55. Depending on your spec, thats 0.5-2%. The major stat gain is 0.5%, the minor stat gain is even less. Of your overall stats.

Again, if it is actually, “only” 0.5-2%, then what does it matter if it’s downgraded?

Since it doesn’t matter, why should we bother with downgrading just to satisfy a few people?

Given that scaling is implemented quite widely in the game, do you think it would really be that hard?

luckywaldo.6089:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vena.8436:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

That math is done purely on weapon comparison, it isn’t then matched against over-all stats.

The attack gained from exotic to ascended was ~55. Depending on your spec, thats 0.5-2%. The major stat gain is 0.5%, the minor stat gain is even less. Of your overall stats.

Again, if it is actually, “only” 0.5-2%, then what does it matter if it’s downgraded?

Since it doesn’t matter, why should we bother with downgrading just to satisfy a few people?

Given that scaling is implemented quite widely in the game, do you think it would really be that hard?

Doesn’t need to be implemented so why bother putting code in just to satisfy a few unhappy people?

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

luckywaldo.6089:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vena.8436:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

That math is done purely on weapon comparison, it isn’t then matched against over-all stats.

The attack gained from exotic to ascended was ~55. Depending on your spec, thats 0.5-2%. The major stat gain is 0.5%, the minor stat gain is even less. Of your overall stats.

Again, if it is actually, “only” 0.5-2%, then what does it matter if it’s downgraded?

Since it doesn’t matter, why should we bother with downgrading just to satisfy a few people?

Given that scaling is implemented quite widely in the game, do you think it would really be that hard?

Doesn’t need to be implemented so why bother putting code in just to satisfy a few unhappy people?

Because a few is actually a lot.

And they often tend to be the dedicated WvW people, who try to coordinate in a guild and with other guilds and with the whole server.

WvW will continue without these people, but it will be more PvE-like than every before, with everyone zerging to farm bag loot and tower rewards.

luckywaldo.6089:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

luckywaldo.6089:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vena.8436:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

That math is done purely on weapon comparison, it isn’t then matched against over-all stats.

The attack gained from exotic to ascended was ~55. Depending on your spec, thats 0.5-2%. The major stat gain is 0.5%, the minor stat gain is even less. Of your overall stats.

Again, if it is actually, “only” 0.5-2%, then what does it matter if it’s downgraded?

Since it doesn’t matter, why should we bother with downgrading just to satisfy a few people?

Given that scaling is implemented quite widely in the game, do you think it would really be that hard?

Doesn’t need to be implemented so why bother putting code in just to satisfy a few unhappy people?

Because a few is actually a lot.

Prove it.

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

We’re not talking about being level 5 and leveling to 80. We’re talking about the role of ascended gear in WvW and how it deviates from the developers’ previous statements on the matter.

Then you completely missed the point of my comparison. I was pointing out that, as a measure of becoming effective in WvW, you’re already pretty much there simply by being 80 with exotic gear. If you don’t PvE or craft (which some people apparently think they should never be “forced” to do), the time and effort spent getting to the level cap and gearing yourself with exotics is going to be considerable. Not only that, you will be killed many times by players through no fault of your own, simply because they are stronger than you.

What you are doing here is arbitrarily applying the “fair game” standard. If you want an even playing field in WvW, you should also be arguing for the elimination of uplevels, which would—ironically—actually emphasize the role of “forced” PvE in terms of end WvW effectiveness.

No, I’m not. It was understood, from the beginning, that to be fully effective in WvW you had to be 80 in exotics and that was it. If you entered at a level lower than 80 you were at a disadvantage but you were able to actually level while doing WvW. This ascended grind kitten entirely contrary to what was originally stated which is why people are so annoyed. I would’ve stuck with another game if I wanted to grind for gear.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

luckywaldo.6089:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

luckywaldo.6089:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vena.8436:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

That math is done purely on weapon comparison, it isn’t then matched against over-all stats.

The attack gained from exotic to ascended was ~55. Depending on your spec, thats 0.5-2%. The major stat gain is 0.5%, the minor stat gain is even less. Of your overall stats.

Again, if it is actually, “only” 0.5-2%, then what does it matter if it’s downgraded?

Since it doesn’t matter, why should we bother with downgrading just to satisfy a few people?

Given that scaling is implemented quite widely in the game, do you think it would really be that hard?

Doesn’t need to be implemented so why bother putting code in just to satisfy a few unhappy people?

Because a few is actually a lot.

Prove it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv