Guild Wars 2

The people supporting this rune are missing what makes it so over the top. Stacks on interrupt is very annoying, but not gamebreaking by itself.

What makes the rune set so over the top is the rest of what it gives. +30% confusion duration combined with all the other condition duration people run and the 20% chance to proc confusion on hit means there is no break between confusion stacks.

Back before the wvw confusion nerf when it was super fotm, it was possible to find and create openings where you could attack. That is no longer possible.

I know this issue is going to be polarized by playstyle, it was the last time as well for quite a long time. The people who think wvw is running in a massive zerg won’t even notice these runes. The people who think wvw is 20v20 gvg with nonstop condition clears will probably notice the confusion but think it is balance. And the people who think wvw is 10 or less vsX are going to absolutely hate what confusion does to the game.

Confusion by itself is a bad mechanic which shouldn’t be in the game. Confusion + torment is one of the stupidest things I’ve seen in an MMO. I don’t know if this will get fixed or not, but right now, small scale fighting is all about confusion + torment + cover conditions.

Also, <3 to old friends who have posted here.

Urrid.4593:

Convenant.7092:

If you think Out of Attunement needs to l2p, you are definitely mistaken… confusion is very strong right now, especially considering how easy it is to massively stack a person up.

If you think I wasn’t being facetious then your sarcasm meter is way out of alignment.

Perplex runes are pretty op, take a unique class feature and give it to everyone and basically cheapen Mesmers.

Confusion was never Unique to the Mesmer

Engineer’s/Warriors/Asura’s/thieves could all Do Confusion quite easily.

Silinsar.6298:

Perplexity is over the top. Fighting against and with it makes it a game of “who gets the first interrupt plus 1-2 cover conditions”.
The stacks are too easy to apply (frequently), too hard to remove (confusion has low removal priority) and there’re too much of them. The long duration basically disables any chance to outlast confusion by kiting/not casting any skills (or not even dodging for some classes) which is usually a possible way to react to numerous confusion stacks.

Got these runes for two characters and still would be happy if they’d get nerfed or even removed. I don’t say you can’t outplay the runes, but the reward for proccing #6 is out of bounds. Plus #4 alone is already a valuable proc for a condition rune set.

Ehh

There is no such thing as Condition removal priority, Newest Condition In, is the first removed.

dreztina.4820:

The people supporting this rune are missing what makes it so over the top. Stacks on interrupt is very annoying, but not gamebreaking by itself.

What makes the rune set so over the top is the rest of what it gives. +30% confusion duration combined with all the other condition duration people run and the 20% chance to proc confusion on hit means there is no break between confusion stacks.

Back before the wvw confusion nerf when it was super fotm, it was possible to find and create openings where you could attack. That is no longer possible.

I know this issue is going to be polarized by playstyle, it was the last time as well for quite a long time. The people who think wvw is running in a massive zerg won’t even notice these runes. The people who think wvw is 20v20 gvg with nonstop condition clears will probably notice the confusion but think it is balance. And the people who think wvw is 10 or less vsX are going to absolutely hate what confusion does to the game.

Confusion by itself is a bad mechanic which shouldn’t be in the game. Confusion + torment is one of the stupidest things I’ve seen in an MMO. I don’t know if this will get fixed or not, but right now, small scale fighting is all about confusion + torment + cover conditions.

Also, <3 to old friends who have posted here.

You’re aware the Confusion Duration Part is broken and doesn’t work right?

While I think an ICD is needed on the Interrupt part, a lot of this comes down to bad play on people’s parts.

Do you know how many people I kill who just spam the kitten button after I apply a few stacks of Confusion?

Like that’s all they’re doing, Is hitting the 1 key as fast as possible and they die because of it.

And the Stacks you can do to someone is actually fairly minor to what I could do before, Like for example 8 Stacks of Confusion is actually less damage then what I use to be able to do with Pain Inverter, which was PBAE and lasted 7 seconds and was only 3 Stacks at that.

I had not heard that the duration was broken, the increase must just be due to the builds/food that has become so popular these days, and of course the proc on hit.

Also, total damage isn’t the problem, uptime is. It doesn’t take a massive amount of confusion damage to kill someone if it’s possible to keep them confused pretty much 100% of the time for a decent amount.

Most people will be running atleast 50% I’d say, You can counter it somewhat with Lemongrass and the anti food one, But you’re still going to have to watch the spamming during a Fight.

Turn off Auto Attack if you have it on from example (which should of happened when confusion wasn’t nerfed)

5 Stacks won’t kill me usually when I play my Ranger unless I just spam the hell out of the key, and I usually don’t. The higher stacks then that aren’t a problem, Because if i’m fighting someone who’s doing it I’m watching for it and won’t attack if I get a huge amount of stacks.

Honestly I think the problem most people are having with it is the fact that people are now actively trying to interrupt them.

Like I said, even 8 Stacks is less damage then the old 3 Stacks of Confusion back in the day, which is about Average for most people I’d say unless you run into a really Weird Build.

Stability pretty much counters the build if you can keep it up, or Slows it down…

Master of Timespace.2548:

Convenant.7092:

Urrid.4593:

Ironic that mesmers have very limited condition clear and stability. I am sure it is a L2P issue <3

I suppose it is time to nerf confusion again. 50% across the board wasn’t enough anet. Time to go half again!

If you think Out of Attunement needs to l2p, you are definitely mistaken… confusion is very strong right now, especially considering how easy it is to massively stack a person up.

Just how does he die to confusion then? Because I’ve fought many people who don’t main their ele or anything , and know very well how to deal with confusion mesmers. Confusion really just doesnt do more damage than bleeding, unless if you spam like hell ofc.
Bleeding: (0.05 * Condition Damage) + 42.5 per stack
Confusion: (0.075 * Condition Damage) + 65 per stack

Nobody talked about dying from Confusion… the fact that you’re stating this shows your lack of experience in PVP; Confusion basically punishes you for everything you cast while it is active, including a possible cleanse. Therefore, in the event you get stacked with no immediate condition removal active… you’re screwed; you have to choose between not attacking at all (and not dodging for lots of classes), or taking massive spike damage.

I don’t even know what to tell you if you think I don’t know how confusion works and how to play around it or have never played against opponents good enough to interrupt my abilities.

When it was the extreme fotm before the nerfs, I fought countless confusion mesmers. I even fought you a few times with your pain inverter build and won each time. And now that it is becoming quite fotm again, I’ve fought confusion builds of just about every class.

Confusion IS a problem right now in small scale fights.

roamzero.9486:

I think eles got punched a little too hard with nerfs, but I think Anet did the same thing with a lot of the confusion changes. Confusion is one of those things that should counter thieves/eles, but I think eles could use some buffs.

If they got ‘punched hard’ then how come the dueling competitions have one third of them eles? How come eles are in top tourney games?

Sorry..but we can’t give you your over the top healing, lol RTL out of any fight. Be glad that the boon duration in pve has not been nerfed otherwise facerolling across the keyboard would be a bit harder.

Eles are fine. Try and condition cleanse against confusion. It works.

dreztina.4820:

Also, <3 to old friends who have posted here.

It’s been like 6 months and this clown hasn’t learned how to deal with Confusion on his D/D Ele yet. Yeah, this isn’t a learn to play issue.

I’d like to know how many of the people defending this rune or telling people to l2p are actually running this rune now, I am and I say it needs a nerf

I think torment is a bigger issue than confusion imo. Confusion was never an issue if you manage how you fight – but torment… avg 3k dmg just for standing still – double if you move around. p/d thieves have become so mainstream it’s worse than their burst builds or d/p builds. You just have perma stealth thieves doing confusion, torment and everything else… they output far too much dmg 1v1. Torment needs to be fixed… right away.

Silinsar.6298:

Perplexity is over the top. Fighting against and with it makes it a game of “who gets the first interrupt plus 1-2 cover conditions”.

I disagree, i have had them stacked on me, i have been interrupted with them and its barely dealt any damage, warriors that use it dont really scare me never seen one with high enough condition damage to make it worry me.

So perplexity runes are broken because…confusion inflicts damage, much like every other condition?

I just have not seen it breaking anything. I think the onus is on people who think it is broken to prove that it’s broken. Noting that you can get 15-20 stacks of confusion on you – from say a toolkit engy – is kind of meaningless when theres so many condition builds that can do the same thing with bleeds.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Silinsar.6298:

Perplexity is over the top. Fighting against and with it makes it a game of “who gets the first interrupt plus 1-2 cover conditions”.

I disagree, i have had them stacked on me, i have been interrupted with them and its barely dealt any damage, warriors that use it dont really scare me never seen one with high enough condition damage to make it worry me.

To be honest, I’d rather fight a Mace Warrior with Perplexity Runes vs Melandru Runes.

If he has Perplexity runes I can actually kill him.

ukuni.8745:

I’d like to know how many of the people defending this rune or telling people to l2p are actually running this rune now, I am and I say it needs a nerf

Here’s the problem, and we both know it. By a “nerf,” anyone sane would think something like:

• #6.) ICD of 5 or 10 seconds.
  This would be something fair, but still potent.

What ANet’s heavy-handed selves would do, is more like:

• #6.) ICD of 60 or 90 seconds.

Meanwhile, they should’ve honestly just went more along the lines of:

• #6.) 15% confusion damage/10% duration

Which would allow for some stacking via #4, sure. But wouldn’t create 10 second Confusion timers. I understand they’re trying to push this whole Mesmer as Interrupter thing, but if they wanted Confusion on Interrupt, there’s already precedent for such things to be done Trait-wise. Meh. Meanwhile, they shagged the original Glamourbomb in the wrong way. Confusing Enchantments lacking a target limit is what made G-Bomb so hellish. So, why not fix that, instead of wrecking multiple Traits, when you’re the ones what made ~5 Traits that focus on Confusion as a Mesmer attack Condition? Oh, right … heavy-handedness … (tears out own hair)

Bump up.

Runes of perplexity shouldn’t give more than 2 stacks of confusion per activation and the 6th rune effect should have a 20 second internal cool down.

Now warriors can stack full 25 stack of confusions very fast using them + distracting strikes.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Distracting_Strikes

No single set of runes should be the main source of damage.

When I first heard the numbers on this rune set I knew it would be broken. You simply cannot let confusion last that long. Putting an ICD ruins this set in all but 1v1 play, so I really hope they don’t do that. Just tweak the length/stacks and it will be fine.

Totally agree with you Attunement, and those who know me know I’ve said it since day 1: Confusion isn’t fun. GW1 backfire, empathy, Wastrel’s were fun. Power spike/leech/drain/block were fun. They tried to simplify the skill system and ended up removing the fun (and balanced) parts of it.

I said from day one, the 6/6 should be 15% duration, 25% Confusion Damage Increase.

Now that sounds like alot, but when you think that the condition does NO damage to you if you dont use skills it means its pretty much wasted. The biggest problem with confusion, is the 4/6 and 6/6 they give Confusion for to long.

I would even think that maybe changing the 4/6 to something like:

4 Stacks for 5seconds.

Its not the actual damage that is the problem, its the duration and the fact that 6/6 currently has no cool down.

Putting an icd on these runes will ruin the 6/6. Anytime anet puts an icd on anything it becomes single target which negates the whole point of the rune. Honestly they should drop the stacks and/or the duration of the stacks. Either do that or change the 6/6 to be something else. Also, they need to fix the rune so we actually get the duration bonus. In truth, the 6/6 should have been added to a mesmer trait, and the rune should have had bonus confusion damage in the 6/6 slot. Since this is a mesmer/engy rune, I fully expect the 6/6 to get put on some ridiculous timer and for the duration to remain bugged basically making this rune obsolete. It’s par for the course.

Confusion should be something you use to counter say being jumped by a class with fast attack speed or a fast attack. You anticipate when the attack is coming and pop it. It shouldn’t be spammed. It should be situational.

Otherwise once you use your Condition remover its sit around and wait to die.

The runes need to go. Confusion was never a big deal till these runes got into the hands of Engi’s and Warriors.

Advent.6193:

ukuni.8745:

I’d like to know how many of the people defending this rune or telling people to l2p are actually running this rune now, I am and I say it needs a nerf

Here’s the problem, and we both know it. By a “nerf,” anyone sane would think something like:

• #6.) ICD of 5 or 10 seconds.
  This would be something fair, but still potent.

What ANet’s heavy-handed selves would do, is more like:

• #6.) ICD of 60 or 90 seconds.

Meanwhile, they should’ve honestly just went more along the lines of:

• #6.) 15% confusion damage/10% duration

Which would allow for some stacking via #4, sure. But wouldn’t create 10 second Confusion timers. I understand they’re trying to push this whole Mesmer as Interrupter thing, but if they wanted Confusion on Interrupt, there’s already precedent for such things to be done Trait-wise. Meh. Meanwhile, they shagged the original Glamourbomb in the wrong way. Confusing Enchantments lacking a target limit is what made G-Bomb so hellish. So, why not fix that, instead of wrecking multiple Traits, when you’re the ones what made ~5 Traits that focus on Confusion as a Mesmer attack Condition? Oh, right … heavy-handedness … (tears out own hair)

pretty much this. as a mesmer it is hard to keep confusion up as all glam skills last around 3-5 seconds and are pretty tough to stack without the runes and also due to the bb nerf.
now here comes a rune that inflicts 5 stack for 10 seconds on interrupts which is far better then an actual confusion build.
if this rune was meant to strengthen confusion builds, than it kinda failed as it strengthens interrupt builds instead. the duration on 5 stacks is too long which makes interrupt builds get 25 stacks. the glam builds were nerfed, but even before the nerf 25 stacks was hard to trigger due to little duration
i think having nr 6 changed to add aditional confusion dmg instead of triggering on interrupts would make more sense.
but u are right anet most likely will add a massive icd on it like they did with tormenting runes.

Runes are not, as apparent by the design of every other rune in the game, supposed to be the main source of damage for a build. Look at Runes of the Grove. A 180 sec cooldown on a root! It comes across as completely useless in comparison to these runes.

Combine this with how much stronger +condition duration food is and how easy it is to bunker up while still dealing very good condition damage and something is severely wrong.

This new bunker condition meta is incredibly boring. I understand that Arena Net wants to wait until after PAX to make any changes, but I fail to see why they wouldn’t nerf these since they won’t have any effect on the tournament. I can only conclude that Arena Net somehow thinks this runeset is fine, which is a kitten shame in my opinion.

Definitely needs a cool down. It’s pretty absurd at the moment.

these runes are insane right now, i went apothecary with these runes on my ele and they destroy everything .. they are ridiculous … i can melt people almost as fast as Out of Attunement glass d/d build except i have 1900 toughness and 1100 healing power. and people telling him to l2p, im stuck with him another week and he is very good and quite annoying to fight against, mindless condi spam wrecks so hard right now and doesnt take much to pull off. even though these runes are the only thing making condi ele viable i still say they need to be toned down.

dreztina.4820:

I know this issue is going to be polarized by playstyle, it was the last time as well for quite a long time. The people who think wvw is running in a massive zerg won’t even notice these runes. The people who think wvw is 20v20 gvg with nonstop condition clears will probably notice the confusion but think it is balance. And the people who think wvw is 10 or less vsX are going to absolutely hate what confusion does to the game.

Well WvW definitely is not about running in a group of 10 and ganking rookies. You can achieve next to nothing else with a group as small as that. Sorry.

That’s the thing. Most aren’t arguing the concept of “tuning down” the Perplexity Set.
Hell, we frigging know they’re going to get nerfed. My main concern is that there’s:

• Bringing ’em down “enough”
• Making them useless as all get-out.

Manage the first option, and even my Mesmer-maining self has no problem. Just don’t pull the “Typical ANet,” and bloody neuter the darn things.

Also, regarding JaeKeun’s comment:
And how many people do you know what use the Grove set? Don’t get me wrong, I’m sure folk use ‘em, but I doubt it’s that prevalent. Stuff like 5% triggers on Rune abilities/impossibly long ICDs make the Runes with those less used. Another example, how many people bother with the 6/6 on Lich?
Meanwhile, we have stuff like Rata Sum, with nice Precision boosts and a 50% shot of -IMHO- one of the best Condition racial skills in game. I don’t understand, or pretend to know, what ANet’s design logic is.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Well WvW definitely is not about running in a group of 10 and ganking rookies. You can achieve next to nothing else with a group as small as that. Sorry.

There’s a group of people who play WvW and don’t want to play follow the leader while spamming their auto attack mindlessly without skill. These guys run around in smaller groups and capture camps, starve enemy zergs of supplies by leading them to supply traps, kill dolyaks, ninja towers while the huge zergs fight for keeps, stop reinforcements running back to enemy keeps that are under siege etc. They’re the ones that use real skill and experience real combat and are the ones that notice that these runes are broken.