Guild Wars 2

Why are the these blobbers demanding that the lower tiered servers get merged? They’re not playing on or against them.

“Hey you! You’re not playing the way I want you to! ANet, destroy them!”

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Why are the these blobbers demanding that the lower tiered servers get merged? They’re not playing on or against them.

“Hey you! You’re not playing the way I want you to! ANet, destroy them!”

They are threatened and alarmed by good framerates and skills that aren’t on autoattack.

Their very way of life is threatened by people doing something else – be glad they don’t invade our servers and blob on our behalf.

Does anybody else, when they see videos from those servers, hear the South Park mob sound in their head?

Rabblerabblerabblerabblerabble

sscripko.5387:

On a tier 7 server, I had over 150 in the server TS, plus a decent sized guild running in raidcall on reset this week. If we were to merge with another server, how many of us are going to get locked out in queues on the weekend? We queued 2 maps, and I would expect that any 2 servers from the lowest tier would still queue all 4 maps for several hours at NA prime time during the weekend. When I was in T1, if I wanted to play on the weekend, the queues would be long, sometimes hours, during NA primetime. If we got merged, my choices at reset are to jam my buttons and hope I get in fast enough, or go play another game on friday nights. I can tell you quickly I would stop jamming buttons to try and get in, and just play another game.

Which T7 server are you? If this is true, then you all have equal to or superior coverage to TC and FA~!

Blix.8021:

Arius.7031:

Reverence.6915:

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Jeknar.6184:

Bo Van Swill.7619:

Please for the love of the gods don’t do this

I would love to hear the reason…

There’s a vocal minority in the low tiers that think it’s awesome to have empty borderlands and no off hours coverage.

Even in tier 1 there are usually 1-2 maps with nothing going on. There’s a reason why higher tier servers have more people: more people find it fun when there’s actual enemies to fight.

Are you actually in the low tiers? This is only REMOTELY true for t8. T7 and up (and even the top t8 server, whether or not that turns out to be AR or Ebay it doesn’t matter) do have off hour coverage. Darkhaven, for example, hits 40+ zergs during oceanic and sea, during sea we hit 40+ and have a guild of 20+ frequently, on week days. Darkhaven, Devona’s Rest, and Kaineng all have large night crews like this. Ferguson’s Crossing, Ehmry Bay, Anvil Rock, and Gates of Madness all have solid oceanic/sea (GoM has the strongest Oceanic in all of bronze, hitting massive numbers with 1-2 large zergs often, Ehmry bay is passable but can disappear easily though). Eredon Terrace and Sorrow’s Furnace are the only servers with no off oceanic/sea coverage.

Again, idk if you just aren’t a low tier server player, or a day time only person. I’m from Darkhaven, I play all time zones as I have a rotating schedule through the week (particularly, I play a LOT of SEA/EU/NA with some oceanic thrown in). I have fought ALL of these servers over the past 10 weeks, each of them at least once, many of them far more than once. I know what I’m talking about, and will get pictures of it right now if needed (it’s 12:50 AM, I can get pictures over the course of the next few hours if anyone requires me to prove my point).

Seems like T6 and T7 have more Oceanic than T1 and T2 from what you’re saying. Stop spouting BS. T1 can barely get more than 60 players into WvW during an average weeknight during Oceanic prime. We PvDoor keeps down with 5 players. This is Tier 1 I’m talking about. T2 is even worse, with DB having non-existent forces and Mag fielding maybe 30 on a good night and only SoS fielding a sizable force. SEA is only marginally better, but that’s usually JQ PvDooring down everything in sight.

If T2 can just barely match T6 or T7 for numbers, then why the hell is there such a big gap in “coverage”.

Ugh, today happened to be a slow day unfortunately so my point can’t be adequately demonstrated that we almost always have very large numbers in WvW during oceanic/sea. We’re a server where SEA is our strength, on a week day, in oceanic, we have 20+ currently in our zerg. Check my attached image, pay closer attention to the mini map as this pic was rushed. You should be able to clearly tell that’s 20+, and we have multiple havoc groups (e.g. DM) currently going, as well as home BL defenders/pugs running around randomly.

One huge difference is in organization. Dh doesn’t do great in Oceanic even though we generally outnumber everyone cus we’re just pugs. But, when SEA comes along, we have a large (for our tier/time zone) SEA zerg busting ppt guild that generally catapults us way up on the ppt. Organization is that big of a deal, any server that has it will have a huge advantage in off hours. Another general note is that night crews are notoriously easy to scare off, one wipe diminishes your zerg largely. Thus, if one server has a slight advantage in coverage during this time, you can easily see them scare off their would-be competition.

Ask a bronze league person how many people GoM can have on during their oceanic omega rushes. Ask a bronze league person how many Dh has on during SEA. They might not agree with my exact numbers, but they’ll tell you the same thing, it’s not insignificant.

If you moved to tier 1 or 2 you would have actual players to fight instead of omega rushing poorly defended low tier keeps. In tier 1-2 oceanic pvding actually has a chance to met with resistance, from defenders or map hopping groups communicating on server TS or whispering commanders on other maps. It’s a completely different (i.e. better) game at the higher tiers. It’s an actual 24 hour war, like it should be. That’s why people come to the higher tiers, and that’s why they stay.

Hmm okay. I thought we met resistance when 20+ of us got wiped in lords room of SoR’s keep without siege. I guess it’s too bad we never get resistance in lower tiers!

P.S. We were omega rushing a t3 fully 1,700 sup keep with siege and defenders in the picture LOL.

Jeknar.6184:

I find it funny that you people say you would hate having your server merged with another because you don’t want the people from these other servers with you. What would you do if these people trasferred to your server then? Would you leave it? No, I know you wouldn’t (you would need to be a cyber-xenophobic idiot to do so)… You problably would find a way to either avoid them (by constantly avoiding the map where these people are) or you would try make up with them.

Also, stop talking like if a merge would make everyone from your server disapear… They would be there, but there would be more people too. Don’t you welcome new transfers to your server? Why you would hate people from other servers then when actually that’s what transfers are?

And Arius, please stop…. You know there are only 3 servers in bronze that have a reasonable all-round coverage (GoM, DR and DH) and even these have holes which people could pretty much fill. Omega rushing empty keeps isn’t fighting. As I’m posting your server have 450ppt and is already almost 30k ahead of the 2nd. How can you come here and say SoR and EBay have coverage to fight your server?

Someone once posted on these forums:

• High ppt means no enemies = PvDoor empty towers/keeps
• Low ppt means no allies = Severely outnumbered
• Balanced ppt means, well, balance = Enemies to fight while having allies

Uh Jeknar… You do realize that Ebay matched us during oceanic/sea on the first day of this matchup right, and even beat us horribly during the first half of oceanic on the 2nd day (taking 365 ppt)? http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/46/ We’ve had to hit them hard and early to even try to stop them from being a major pain to us at night. Their coverage isn’t as bad as you seem to think it is. We just have better coverage in those hours.

No, I probably wouldn’t leave the server, I just wouldn’t enjoy WvW as much. You can’t avoid a server full of people, they become pugs in your pug zergs, guildies in your guild groups… it’s not like all ET players for example would be confined to a certain map lol. I’ve dealt with significant portions of many other server communities, and as a general rule of thumb I really do not like them. At all. I don’t want to be server mates with them if I can avoid it. Also, look at HoD. You see what happened when a ton of people merged into one server? It’s different than just a guild or two and a few pugs. When a full server’s worth of people merge into another, there’s a lot more change. It can go smoothly, perhaps, but I see no reason to believe it will, and at least SOME reason to believe it won’t (looking at HoD and how much drama/in fighting goes on there).

Rimmy.9217:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Why are the these blobbers demanding that the lower tiered servers get merged? They’re not playing on or against them.

“Hey you! You’re not playing the way I want you to! ANet, destroy them!”

They are threatened and alarmed by good framerates and skills that aren’t on autoattack.

Their very way of life is threatened by people doing something else – be glad they don’t invade our servers and blob on our behalf.

Does anybody else, when they see videos from those servers, hear the South Park mob sound in their head?

Rabblerabblerabblerabblerabble

That’s not even the point.
There’s 2 many severs with no one to fill.
Look at vabbi before season 2, it had a score of 700 points. That meant their Zerg is 5 people.

Buffy.9246:

That’s not even the point.
There’s 2 many severs with no one to fill.
Look at vabbi before season 2, it had a score of 700 points. That meant their Zerg is 5 people.

Look at my own server, Ehmry Bay, before season two – we’d lost our entire (for all intents and purposes) WvW scene with just two or three dozen people left. We plummeted from T4 to T8.

We got beat by ET and Kaineng several times, found our footing, and have been rebuilding our WvW scene. Right now we’re in a match with two servers that are from a tier above us and, from our point of view, pretty zergy. DH especially so. BUT WE’RE HAVING FUN.

http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/map/1626

We’re not going to win this week, not unless the two servers experience a superflu as a result of being packed in so tight, but it’s still a good time. We would resent being merged with another server just as we’re redefining ourselves.

If other servers are not enjoying themselves and want to merge, that’s what transfers are for. Please don’t advocate mergers based on our glicko ratings.

I also dislike people on my server. It is a fact of life, I don’t get along with 100% of the people I meet. It is easy enough to get rid of minor bothers like rude people, my blocklist is longer every day. Maybe there are even commanders I do not like, and I don’t have to follow them. I totally understand where you are coming from.

But when I want to dodge that noob commander on the Eternal Cattlegrounds, I don’t have the option to go and follow the other commander on my home borderland, there isn’t one. I can’t instead stick with the other medium sized band of misfits taking supply camps because there isn’t one. When that noob commander logs off and the “action” dies out so his/her 10 followers also sign out, I don’t have the option of hanging around until somebody else tags or another group forms because there often isn’t another tagger or any other groups.

We are all very capable of dealing with other players, both the good and the bad. I suspect you would be outright lying if you said you are nohomobromo close to 100% of the people on your current server. I really believe that if your server’s population went up by 1.5x overnight, you would find a way to cope with all the newbies, jerks, and roleplayers.

But nobody will ever find a way to work with a playerbase they don’t have.

I still really enjoy WvW and enjoy trying to help my server, ET.

The only thing I dislike about my current WvW experience is watching our morale go down due to insurmountable number differences. Ebay for instance can outnumber us 1:5 often. I really respect Ebay and enjoy playing against them but its just tough to match up to that!

All we need is a little bit of help. We have been abandoned before and honestly I don’t want a guild to have to do that to their current server in order to help us. At the same time, I kinda don’t want a server merge either. Ack! that’s a pickle!

I don’t have a great suggestion or solution but in my humble opinion I would like to see something done simply for the sake of the people I play with. We really try and I personally would like to see our guilds see some of the fruits of their labor from time to time.

Dano.5298:

I still really enjoy WvW and enjoy trying to help my server, ET.

The only thing I dislike about my current WvW experience is watching our morale go down due to insurmountable number differences. Ebay for instance can outnumber us 1:5 often. I really respect Ebay and enjoy playing against them but its just tough to match up to that!

All we need is a little bit of help. We have been abandoned before and honestly I don’t want a guild to have to do that to their current server in order to help us. At the same time, I kinda don’t want a server merge either. Ack! that’s a pickle!

I don’t have a great suggestion or solution but in my humble opinion I would like to see something done simply for the sake of the people I play with. We really try and I personally would like to see our guilds see some of the fruits of their labor from time to time.

1:5? Our numbers have increased, but they haven’t increased THAT much. We can pull everybody that is in our guilds/on our friends lists in if we need a brief surge in numbers sometimes, but if we are 1:5ing you then you are fielding fewer people than before.

Although this past reset, we did have more people on EBG than I’ve seen since we lost all of our WvW guilds – it was good to see.

Also: necessary considering the populations of the two servers we’re up against lol

We like playing with ET, btw.

Welcome to NA Tier 1 where each map is queued and during NA prime time map blobs are everywhe-… oh wait :o

Rimmy.9217:

Dano.5298:

I still really enjoy WvW and enjoy trying to help my server, ET.

The only thing I dislike about my current WvW experience is watching our morale go down due to insurmountable number differences. Ebay for instance can outnumber us 1:5 often. I really respect Ebay and enjoy playing against them but its just tough to match up to that!

All we need is a little bit of help. We have been abandoned before and honestly I don’t want a guild to have to do that to their current server in order to help us. At the same time, I kinda don’t want a server merge either. Ack! that’s a pickle!

I don’t have a great suggestion or solution but in my humble opinion I would like to see something done simply for the sake of the people I play with. We really try and I personally would like to see our guilds see some of the fruits of their labor from time to time.

1:5? Our numbers have increased, but they haven’t increased THAT much. We can pull everybody that is in our guilds/on our friends lists in if we need a brief surge in numbers sometimes, but if we are 1:5ing you then you are fielding fewer people than before.

Although this past reset, we did have more people on EBG than I’ve seen since we lost all of our WvW guilds – it was good to see.

Also: necessary considering the populations of the two servers we’re up against lol

We like playing with ET, btw.

Well 1:5 is rare against you guys but I will often tag up later in the night so yeah it can get rough.

Glad to hear you guys increased your numbers. Maybe we can too!

Well, someone asked, so…i prefer low tier servers, because:
- there are less queues,
- less blobs,
- less OS trolls,
- more capable duellers,
- individuals tend to be more skilled,
- the whole community is a lot more personal and
- a single person can achieve much more than in higher tiers.

Also, even if i’m in a minority, i like being outmanned. When i see that icon on my lower right bar, i know there are enemies out there and i can have my fun trolling them. I will die at one point, so what? I’m not here to make points or loot, but to have fun, after all and i have my fun fighting against superior numbers seeing how long i can last.

I like fighting with DH and EBAY too but we dont have OCX/EU coverage

Rimmy.9217:

Public Service Announcement: Denizens of upper tier servers! If you’re looking for a server to transfer to with no queue times and less boring zerg play, please consider Eredon Terrace. They seem like good people and plenty of them are very solid players – all they lack is numbers.

We on Ehmry Bay have thoroughly enjoyed our matches with them, and despite a bit of forum trolling we speak well of them on our own forums, by and large. We were worried that when we sank from T4 to T8 there would be no fights to be had, but they (and Kaineng) showed us that wasn’t the case.

The people that ET have left are scarred and grizzled veterans, and with just a few more bodies in their barracks would be vying with us to see who gets to T7 first.

They’ve had transfers in the past who left because there wasn’t enough easy reward – if you want to zerg your way to PPT then this is the wrong tier for you anyway. But if you want a tier and server where your individual efforts make a tangible difference – Eredon Terrace.

Cowards need not apply.

Rimmy, thanks for this post. It means a lot to many of us on ET when we see things like this as it is a nice morale boost, and it comes at a time when we could use it.

::salute::

No disrespect, just honesty….But having 1-2 maps populated during 4hrs out of a 24hr day does not mean you are thriving…..

It is absolutely fine if you enjoy that, but do not try to justify that having some prime-time presence and tumbleweeds on everything else, means that you are well populated and stable.

It’s perspective bob… a double of population on a T8 server would seem very populated and “thriving”, but only to someone used to playing T8.

bob.8632:

No disrespect, just honesty….But having 1-2 maps populated during 4hrs out of a 24hr day does not mean you are thriving…..

It is absolutely fine if you enjoy that, but do not try to justify that having some prime-time presence and tumbleweeds on everything else, means that you are well populated and stable.

But this isn’t even the reality for most servers lol… Devona’s Rest, GoM, and Darkhaven consistently have decent night crews so long as commanders are available (Dh/DR will sometimes disappear due to there being no com, granted). Servers like Kaineng, Anvil Rock, and even Ehmry Bay also have substantial (for our tier) night crews, so that even at night time there will be battles and orange swords. As a Darkhaven person, when we were fighting Devona’s Rest last (week 9 of S2), orange swords were popping everywhere during SEA especially. Sometimes in 2 BLs. We’d have a large pug zerg + SotD and DR would have a pug zerg + ZS (esp during late SEA, as that’s usually when zs started seriously going)… that’s a lot of people.

So your statement may, MAY hold some worth in regards to servers with 0 off hour coverage (SoR/ET/SF), but that’s not the majority of bronze servers even.

TC/DB/AR next week, pls. Make it happen!

I have played on a lot of servers (7 or so on EU and NA) with most of my time spent in NA-“Bronze” and honestly you really do not realize how bare T7-8 (NA) is until you start moving around. Like I said, if you want a sparsely populated server, then no worries.

But really, the higher tiers are not queued for the most part. The old days of higher tiers full of zergs and queues, and lower tiers are full of roamers and skill groups are coming to an end.

This game does not really have the population to support 24 servers anymore, and it probably hasn’t for around 1 year or so.

bob.8632:

I have played on a lot of servers (7 or so on EU and NA) with most of my time spent in NA-“Bronze” and honestly you really do not realize how bare T7-8 (NA) is until you start moving around. Like I said, if you want a sparsely populated server, then no worries.

But really, the higher tiers are not queued for the most part. The old days of higher tiers full of zergs and queues, and lower tiers are full of roamers and skill groups are coming to an end.

This game does not really have the population to support 24 servers anymore, and it probably hasn’t for around 1 year or so.

No merges. If higher tier servers want more population, they can pay ANet to move en masse to a lower populated server.

And people who are currently on lower populated servers who don’t like the kind of play they’re getting can pay ANet to transfer to a higher populated server.

Do not decide on my behalf what’s “better” for me based on your own preference. The lower tier servers are not a resource to be harvested by the higher population servers to maintain their boring big group zergs.

Rimmy.9217:

bob.8632:

I have played on a lot of servers (7 or so on EU and NA) with most of my time spent in NA-“Bronze” and honestly you really do not realize how bare T7-8 (NA) is until you start moving around. Like I said, if you want a sparsely populated server, then no worries.

But really, the higher tiers are not queued for the most part. The old days of higher tiers full of zergs and queues, and lower tiers are full of roamers and skill groups are coming to an end.

This game does not really have the population to support 24 servers anymore, and it probably hasn’t for around 1 year or so.

No merges. If higher tier servers want more population, they can pay ANet to move en masse to a lower populated server.

And people who are currently on lower populated servers who don’t like the kind of play they’re getting can pay ANet to transfer to a higher populated server.

Do not decide on my behalf what’s “better” for me based on your own preference. The lower tier servers are not a resource to be harvested by the higher population servers to maintain their boring big group zergs.

It is a myth that all higher tiered servers want you to transfer there…In fact it is only a handful more than likely…

What is true is that many higher tiers think the lower tiers are full of bad individual players, which ironically is also a myth.

Amen Rimmy… so what if populations have dwindled, it’s to be expected. If the maps get too sparse for some folks, they have the option to move, and they have.

I actually like where ET is now… there is no PPT pressure which allows us to play in a different way. If we only have enough to bunker down our BL and chase around the evil intruders, then so be it, that is our game and challenge for the night.

Related:

“The player-count requirement for breakout events has been lowered from 10 to 5.”

Grass is always greener…etal.

I’ve been in T1/T2 throug T6-T8. I prefer the lower Tier servers. No lag, no queues. I can play/ switch to my alts whenever I feel like it.

Blobs?…well everyone blobs in all Tiers. Just part of the game.

If you don’t like your server and you can’t buy gems with a card, go run the karma train in EotM for a week or so, break down the the greens & blues & sell the mats, sell the yellows and exotics and transfer wherever you want.

There is a nice range of WvW gameplay right now. Should be server out there for everyone.

If you actually like the game, that is.

bob.8632:

It is a myth that all higher tiered servers want you to transfer there…In fact it is only a handful more than likely…

What is true is that many higher tiers think the lower tiers are full of bad individual players, which ironically is also a myth.

I don’t think they all do, I was just trying to cover reasons that people might thing a merge is a good idea. It’s really not.

Rimmy.9217:

bob.8632:

I have played on a lot of servers (7 or so on EU and NA) with most of my time spent in NA-“Bronze” and honestly you really do not realize how bare T7-8 (NA) is until you start moving around. Like I said, if you want a sparsely populated server, then no worries.

But really, the higher tiers are not queued for the most part. The old days of higher tiers full of zergs and queues, and lower tiers are full of roamers and skill groups are coming to an end.

This game does not really have the population to support 24 servers anymore, and it probably hasn’t for around 1 year or so.

No merges. If higher tier servers want more population, they can pay ANet to move en masse to a lower populated server.

And people who are currently on lower populated servers who don’t like the kind of play they’re getting can pay ANet to transfer to a higher populated server.

Do not decide on my behalf what’s “better” for me based on your own preference. The lower tier servers are not a resource to be harvested by the higher population servers to maintain their boring big group zergs.

QFT. Lol, love fighting ebay, and apparently love their posters too (- the Dork shaven bit earlier, not happy >:O).

Some people want merges, some people don’t. Bottom line though. Darkhaven isn’t some dead unpopulated server of people waiting for a merge to save us… Don’t force us into something we don’t want.

Arius.7031:

QFT. Lol, love fighting ebay, and apparently love their posters too (- the Dork shaven bit earlier, not happy >:O).

Some people want merges, some people don’t. Bottom line though. Darkhaven isn’t some dead unpopulated server of people waiting for a merge to save us… Don’t force us into something we don’t want.

lol if you like you can call us EBags, what with your relentless waves of zergy action. I swear, your server must be constantly pregnant to spit out mobs as much as you do. :P

And Ehmry Bay is way less populated than DORK SHAVEN, and even we don’t want a merger – we’ll sort ourselves out and play at whatever level we manage to play at.

renmei.3102:

Welcome to NA Tier 1 where each map is queued and during NA prime time map blobs are everywhe-… oh wait :o

Post season, low turnout from people taking a break after the amount of overtime put in last week.

I like the idea of giving a major boost to the Outnumbered buff… say 500% increased power and toughness. That “might” make it possible to beat a medium sized zerg with a small group. Plus it would tend to discourage the outrageous karma trains.

I stay with my server because it’s my home and I have friends there. Still, I’m foul sick of being so outnumbered that I can only hide and raid an occasional sentry or camp.

I’m awaiting a grand Locke and Demosthenes style debate between Arius and Jeknar that ultimately results in the two agreeing on a compromise that saves WvW.

Also, Ender goes and kills the bugs keeping us from our season rewards.

Gravox the Terrible.2157:

If you gave the top tier the option to go to the bottom for free, how many would take that option?
So few you wouldn’t notice.
People don’t join hopelessly outnumbered teams, they join the winning teams, the ones with the numbers.

Umm…December 2012, lots did and went to Kaineng…remember?

Deli.1302:

renmei.3102:

Welcome to NA Tier 1 where each map is queued and during NA prime time map blobs are everywhe-… oh wait :o

Post season, low turnout from people taking a break after the amount of overtime put in last week.

Wasn’t any different during seasons. We had unqueued maps the very first week a few hours after the first reset. Given that any of the tier 1 servers still absolutely rolls over tier 2, despite the decline in population, I can’t imagine how barren and boring it is in the lowest tiers.

Blix.8021:

Deli.1302:

renmei.3102:

Welcome to NA Tier 1 where each map is queued and during NA prime time map blobs are everywhe-… oh wait :o

Post season, low turnout from people taking a break after the amount of overtime put in last week.

Wasn’t any different during seasons. We had unqueued maps the very first week a few hours after the first reset. Given that any of the tier 1 servers still absolutely rolls over tier 2, despite the decline in population, I can’t imagine how barren and boring it is in the lowest tiers.

Pic from about 9:40pm server time. This doesn’t include our guild groups, our BL defense group, or our various havoc squads.

Darius.1430:

… there is no PPT pressure which allows us to play in a different way. If we only have enough to bunker down our BL and chase around the evil intruders, then so be it, that is our game and challenge for the night.

been there done that, more than once. seems it’s something we’re good at on ET. i didn’t leave then. i’ve only been gone as long as i have because crappy internet. perhaps that will be changing soon. finally. crossing my fingers…

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Deli.1302:

renmei.3102:

Welcome to NA Tier 1 where each map is queued and during NA prime time map blobs are everywhe-… oh wait :o

Post season, low turnout from people taking a break after the amount of overtime put in last week.

Wasn’t any different during seasons. We had unqueued maps the very first week a few hours after the first reset. Given that any of the tier 1 servers still absolutely rolls over tier 2, despite the decline in population, I can’t imagine how barren and boring it is in the lowest tiers.

Pic from about 9:40pm server time. This doesn’t include our guild groups, our BL defense group, or our various havoc squads.

Just… stop. If lower tier servers consistently had that kind of turn out, they’d be in tier 3-4, not 6-8

7am server time… We’re on ocx prime right now if i’m not mistaken. Look on my minimap how many green dots we have on our only keep. Not even the Kaineng zerg is impressive (10-15ish maybe?)

Also, the camps on AR BL were taken by 1 person, that never got interrupted (which lead me to belive that there is no AR on that map).

Super healthy isn’t?

Jeknar.6184:

7am server time… We’re on ocx prime right now if i’m not mistaken. Look on my minimap how many green dots we have on our only keep. Not even the Kaineng zerg is impressive (10-15ish maybe?)

Also, the camps on AR BL were taken by 1 person, that never got interrupted (which lead me to belive that there is no AR on that map).

Super healthy isn’t?

It’s about 2-3 hours to Oceanic prime from time of posting, but yeah, really sad. BG’s barely got 50 guys in WvW right now as it is, and we’re ranked 3.

Although the first week of a tournament can bring forth insane queues all the way down to T8, there’s not enough in WvW to keep those guys coming back.

Reverence.6915:

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Deli.1302:

renmei.3102:

Welcome to NA Tier 1 where each map is queued and during NA prime time map blobs are everywhe-… oh wait :o

Post season, low turnout from people taking a break after the amount of overtime put in last week.

Wasn’t any different during seasons. We had unqueued maps the very first week a few hours after the first reset. Given that any of the tier 1 servers still absolutely rolls over tier 2, despite the decline in population, I can’t imagine how barren and boring it is in the lowest tiers.

Pic from about 9:40pm server time. This doesn’t include our guild groups, our BL defense group, or our various havoc squads.

Just… stop. If lower tier servers consistently had that kind of turn out, they’d be in tier 3-4, not 6-8

That’s not true at all, you don’t know what you’re talking about. You need to take a break from “beastgate” (lol) and come down to bronze for a few matches. Sorrow’s Furnace, Gates of Madness, Devona’s Rest, and Fergusson’s crossing all HEAVILY outnumber Darkhaven during prime, and the screenshot I gave you was a relatively tame zerg for Darkhaven during primetime (ask the guy from Ehmry Bay posting in this thread lol, he’ll tell you our zergs are large and there are plenty of them).

I’ll keep on posting screenshots to actually back up my claims, it’d be nice if you’d do the same but you’re just relying on assertions with no evidence. You can keep covering your eyes, avoiding my pictures that I keep posting to prove my point, or you can accept that your conceptions may be a bit incorrect.

Edit: Also, so you know, our numbers have been dropping drastically over the past few days (season 2’s ending probably), so idk if these numbers are consistent with what we will be seeing. But, for the past few matchups (I ignored the start of season 2, which saw Darkhaven, Gates of Madness, and Sorrow’s furance all at 3-4 queues during prime), the numbers I’ve given have been the norm.

Merge Ehmry into SoS so Rimmy and Grav can come here plis. (It’s actually quite fun 82.5% of the time…)

(Bonus: There are Red Pancakes and sirrup.)

I think one of the primary issues with the lower tiers is a lack of overlap coverage in the form of trusted commanders. A guild group or a militia commander decides to not eat/sleep/breathe the game for an afternoon and the general pop loses a visible rally point and a direction for their efforts. They start filtering out of the map and sooner or later structures are flying the wrong colors.

Morale snowballs and lot of people are content to coast if their server falls woefully behind in a given week. Most players don’t like to upgrade or siege structures defensively if they expect it will fall once their shift is over. The demoralized see victory as out of reach and cease to take the steps that would make such a victory possible.

Take a look at this, in particular, the Borderland Focus section.

Tier 1: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Blackgate
Tier 4: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Isle-of-Janthir
Tier 8: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Eredon-Terrace

Notice how blackgate’s differs from the lower tiers? See how little % of low tier ppt comes from enemy borderlands, while for BG it’s a substantial? It’s because they don’t have a healthy enough population to have presence on all 4 maps, so people congregate on their home BL and EB. Which means enemy servers are also not invading THEIR bl, which means less wvw action all around. In tier 1, people actually take and hold keeps in enemy BLs, upgrade them to waypoints, and have people map hop to save them.

The fact of the matter is, for your casual or new player, it IS important to have people on all the time in WvW, on multiple maps. Imagine buying GW2 and your first impression of it is the 1 person on the map flipping camps telling you “yeah we can’t play real wvw now because server x has a 15 man australian guild and we don’t.” You’d probably never log in again, you would definitely not pay anet the ridiculous transfer fee to a non dead realm, because you would have no frame of reference for wvw being any actual fun. People log in, see if there are people to play with, and if not, they log out. That’s just how it works. It wasn’t an issue at launch, because there were people on all the realms. It is an issue now.

Blix.8021:

Take a look at this, in particular, the Borderland Focus section.

Tier 1: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Blackgate
Tier 4: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Isle-of-Janthir
Tier 8: http://www.gw2score.com/server/Eredon-Terrace

Notice how blackgate’s differs from the lower tiers? See how little % of low tier ppt comes from enemy borderlands, while for BG it’s a substantial? It’s because they don’t have a healthy enough population to have presence on all 4 maps, so people congregate on their home BL and EB. Which means enemy servers are also not invading THEIR bl, which means less wvw action all around. In tier 1, people actually take and hold keeps in enemy BLs, upgrade them to waypoints, and have people map hop to save them.

The fact of the matter is, for your casual or new player, it IS important to have people on all the time in WvW, on multiple maps. Imagine buying GW2 and your first impression of it is the 1 person on the map flipping camps telling you “yeah we can’t play real wvw now because server x has a 15 man australian guild and we don’t.” You’d probably never log in again, you would definitely not pay anet the ridiculous transfer fee to a non dead realm, because you would have no frame of reference for wvw being any actual fun. People log in, see if there are people to play with, and if not, they log out. That’s just how it works. It wasn’t an issue at launch, because there were people on all the realms. It is an issue now.

I actually agreed with you up until your last paragraph. I think you draw an incorrect conclusion. Having players on ALL maps is relatively unimportant, any noob knows if one map is empty to check the others. As you say, people congregate in EB and home bl in lower tiers. This gives generally quite substantial populations in these 2 maps. I don’t think this is any problem whatsoever, and this explains why even lower population servers tend to have a zerg going in at least one map 90% of the day (ET and SF are the only strong, noticeable exceptions to this, who both 99% up and vanish at oceanic/sea generally).

Reverence claims only 50 BG players are on during oceanic. How does he even know that? Do all guilds run tagged? Do all havoc squads report their numbers? I have a feeling be means to say 50+ players in eb and home bl or something… but bg/jq/tc are constantly capping each other’s bls in oceanic/sea. As I look at gw2score right now, I see TC recently retook 2 keeps in their bl from BG, JQ owns 2 keeps in BG BL, and BG owns 1 keep in JQ BL. And BG only has 50 people on in total right now? Don’t buy it. Don’t buy it at all.

Iavra.8510:

Well, someone asked, so…i prefer low tier servers, because:
- there are less queues,
- less blobs,
- less OS trolls,
- more capable duellers,
- individuals tend to be more skilled,
- the whole community is a lot more personal and
- a single person can achieve much more than in higher tiers.

Also, even if i’m in a minority, i like being outmanned. When i see that icon on my lower right bar, i know there are enemies out there and i can have my fun trolling them. I will die at one point, so what? I’m not here to make points or loot, but to have fun, after all and i have my fun fighting against superior numbers seeing how long i can last.

T1 there are no queues outside of reset night for a few hours.
There are not blobs on every map. Some maps, yes. All maps, no.
It gives you the option to play how you want.
Capable duellers and more skilled players in lower tiers? Hardly.
There are more types of each player in higher tiers.
There are more highly skilled players. There are more average players. And there are more bad players.
Saying a single player is more important in lower tiers goes without saying. A single player in lower tiers represents a higher percentage of the total population.
All that said, WvW is intended to be massive server vs server vs server warfare with a lot of people 24 hours a day. Running around in pockets of 3-5 people flipping camps and undefended towers for 20 hours a day in lower tiers isn’t even playing the game. And it’s not like the situation is going to improve without server merges. As much as you say each person is more important in lower tiers, it’s also way more noticeable when a few people leave due to attrition. How long will it be before attrition makes the bottom few tiers even more unplayable than now? I was in tier 3 about 4 months ago and found the game unplayable outside of NA prime, can’t imagine the horror of playing in the bottom few tiers.

Arius.7031:

Reverence claims only 50 BG players are on during oceanic. How does he even know that? Do all guilds run tagged? Do all havoc squads report their numbers? I have a feeling be means to say 50+ players in eb and home bl or something… but bg/jq/tc are constantly capping each other’s bls in oceanic/sea. As I look at gw2score right now, I see TC recently retook 2 keeps in their bl from BG, JQ owns 2 keeps in BG BL, and BG owns 1 keep in JQ BL. And BG only has 50 people on in total right now? Don’t buy it. Don’t buy it at all.

This is the other big difference – organisation.
At the time of my last post, we had a main zerg of around 25-30 and two 5 man groups. Give an upper estimation of those not in teamspeak, and you get 50. Tagged or untagged doensn’t matter. We know they’re there.

An undefended keep can be taken by 3 people (least amount of people I’ve successfully done it with). How many things get flipped really isn’t an indication of numbers on a borderland.

Shonie.5297:

Iavra.8510:

Well, someone asked, so…i prefer low tier servers, because:
- there are less queues,
- less blobs,
- less OS trolls,
- more capable duellers,
- individuals tend to be more skilled,
- the whole community is a lot more personal and
- a single person can achieve much more than in higher tiers.

Also, even if i’m in a minority, i like being outmanned. When i see that icon on my lower right bar, i know there are enemies out there and i can have my fun trolling them. I will die at one point, so what? I’m not here to make points or loot, but to have fun, after all and i have my fun fighting against superior numbers seeing how long i can last.

T1 there are no queues outside of reset night for a few hours.
There are not blobs on every map. Some maps, yes. All maps, no.
It gives you the option to play how you want.
Capable duellers and more skilled players in lower tiers? Hardly.
There are more types of each player in higher tiers.
There are more highly skilled players. There are more average players. And there are more bad players.
Saying a single player is more important in lower tiers goes without saying. A single player in lower tiers represents a higher percentage of the total population.
All that said, WvW is intended to be massive server vs server vs server warfare with a lot of people 24 hours a day. Running around in pockets of 3-5 people flipping camps and undefended towers for 20 hours a day in lower tiers isn’t even playing the game. And it’s not like the situation is going to improve without server merges. As much as you say each person is more important in lower tiers, it’s also way more noticeable when a few people leave due to attrition. How long will it be before attrition makes the bottom few tiers even more unplayable than now? I was in tier 3 about 4 months ago and found the game unplayable outside of NA prime, can’t imagine the horror of playing in the bottom few tiers.

Dude, do you really think lower tier servers is a bunch of people flipping camps for 20 hours a day? Wow. You have no idea what you’re talking about, at all. Most people who play in lower tiers, by the way, enjoy them just fine. In fact, MOST (not all) of the supporters for merges, in this thread, are people from higher tiers, because y’all don’t know what you’re talking about and think you should be determining what’s best for us. Check earlier in the thread. I posted pictures, during a week day, of darkhaven having 25+ during oceanic (which we have far less on for than we do during sea/eu). That’s not 3-5 people flipping camps. During NA we easily have 40-50+ zerg + guild groups every day, consistently, without fail.

Reverence.6915:

Arius.7031:

Reverence claims only 50 BG players are on during oceanic. How does he even know that? Do all guilds run tagged? Do all havoc squads report their numbers? I have a feeling be means to say 50+ players in eb and home bl or something… but bg/jq/tc are constantly capping each other’s bls in oceanic/sea. As I look at gw2score right now, I see TC recently retook 2 keeps in their bl from BG, JQ owns 2 keeps in BG BL, and BG owns 1 keep in JQ BL. And BG only has 50 people on in total right now? Don’t buy it. Don’t buy it at all.

This is the other big difference – organisation.
At the time of my last post, we had a main zerg of around 25-30 and two 5 man groups. Give an upper estimation of those not in teamspeak, and you get 50. Tagged or untagged doensn’t matter. We know they’re there.

An undefended keep can be taken by 3 people (least amount of people I’ve successfully done it with). How many things get flipped really isn’t an indication of numbers on a borderland.

Lol you need to come to low tier. 2 manning a keep is easy if both players are competent.

Anyways, okay, fine. That’s a side topic regardless. You’re right, there is a big difference, organization. That’s why Darkhaven couldn’t survive against you in sea/oceanic, or even CD. We’re pugs, bad ones at that, we’d get rolled and quit almost immediately. However, if you REALLY only have 50 people on, we’re not far behind in player count (as I speak, 20 man main zerg, 1 havoc group of 6, multiple roamers, and bl defenders which I do not know the exact count of, but at least 5).

I agree with Shonie completely, WvW was designed to be a platform for massive group versus group combat. The design of the map and objectives are centered on large groups (e.g. a group of 10 people will have great difficulty taking anything more than an undefended tower).
In fact, I believe that a truly excellent WvW experience can only be had on maps that are at least 80% full at all times. In this idyllic scenario, no one is outnumbered, and the winner is solely decided by skill and coordination.
If you enjoy dueling and fighting in small groups, that’s fine, plenty of that is going on even in servers that are queued. You should also realize however, that sPvP gives plenty of opportunities for those things as well, and could even be argued to be the legitimate platform for that type of fight.

I am not sure whether merging servers is the best solution to this problem, but I think massive player migration is necessary for WvW to function.

Operationally, merging servers might prove very difficult, firstly because most servers have stronger NA/EU presences than OCX/SEA presences. You could very well end up creating massive queues in NA and empty maps in SEA for example. Perhaps suggestions to swap servers can be made on an individual level, where the player can select what timeslot he identifies with most?

A second issue I see is the server ‘nationalism’. E.g. why should a server go to TC, and lose their name, why not the other way around? A clean slate, with all the existing servers being destroyed, and an equal grouping being made on a number of new servers that are balanced in terms of population is a very radical solution, but it could be the only one that truly addresses this issue.

A third problem will be assuring that this proposed ‘fairness’ will be stable over time. Players have an intrinsic incentive to move to a server that performs well (except perhaps the masochists on T9 that enjoy being on the receiving end every week). Add to that the occasional extrinsic motivation in the form of better rewards for better season placement, and we end up with a system that cannot be stable unless the barriers of joining well-performing servers are prohibitively high.

I want to apologize if I came off as harsh before. I know people have “realm pride”, and I get that. But my point (perhaps poorly made) was and still is:

This game is dying a bit, waning in population. Obviously there are enough people that will still make playing it viable in the future (people still play GW1.). The problem is that at the release of the game there was some intense hope from the player-base thinking this was going to be the next big thing (since DAoC) in the RvR sense, not to mention all of the old GW1 players that had been waiting on this game for quite a while. Therefore there was a true need for 24 servers, I do believe that. (NA)

But now there really is not, and with the Megaserver update, that even becomes more clear. Let’s be honest, there are probably more PVE’ers than WvW’ers as a whole. PVE was taking massive hits with 3/4 of the maps on servers totally empty. Megaservers (like them or not) were needed in that regard to keep the game viable, for players that wanted to play with other players (MMO and whatnot).

2 years ago I would have said the same thing you guys are screaming, and that is probably because my server moves back then were while the game was still “full”. But I do believe that something needs to be done in the long run. And I think that if you have never moved from a low-pop server, the changes over time in your population have been so gradual that you really do not see the issue.

Again, if you just totally enjoy solo roaming on a near-empty map, then I get that, but the fact of the matter is in 1-2years the bottom 3-6 servers will likely not be able to support WvW unless something changes from the current pace.

Arius.7031:

Reverence.6915:

Arius.7031:

Reverence claims only 50 BG players are on during oceanic. How does he even know that? Do all guilds run tagged? Do all havoc squads report their numbers? I have a feeling be means to say 50+ players in eb and home bl or something… but bg/jq/tc are constantly capping each other’s bls in oceanic/sea. As I look at gw2score right now, I see TC recently retook 2 keeps in their bl from BG, JQ owns 2 keeps in BG BL, and BG owns 1 keep in JQ BL. And BG only has 50 people on in total right now? Don’t buy it. Don’t buy it at all.

This is the other big difference – organisation.
At the time of my last post, we had a main zerg of around 25-30 and two 5 man groups. Give an upper estimation of those not in teamspeak, and you get 50. Tagged or untagged doensn’t matter. We know they’re there.

An undefended keep can be taken by 3 people (least amount of people I’ve successfully done it with). How many things get flipped really isn’t an indication of numbers on a borderland.

Lol you need to come to low tier. 2 manning a keep is easy if both players are competent.

Anyways, okay, fine. That’s a side topic regardless. You’re right, there is a big difference, organization. That’s why Darkhaven couldn’t survive against you in sea/oceanic, or even CD. We’re pugs, bad ones at that, we’d get rolled and quit almost immediately. However, if you REALLY only have 50 people on, we’re not far behind in player count (as I speak, 20 man main zerg, 1 havoc group of 6, multiple roamers, and bl defenders which I do not know the exact count of, but at least 5).

I’ve actually soloed several keeps. I just usually wait until our zerg is attacking hills or bay to keep everyone distracted. Although it is fun to take them without the distraction as long as they don’t have waypoints built in hills or bay, I usually get to kill 1 or 2 people at a time that come running to defend.

If I wanted to blob I would transfer, I like roaming solo or in a small group and killing other roamers. I like taking an enemy keep or camp, sieging it up and farming people.

I couldn’t care less about PPT or crappy rewards. I’m on AR and we come for the fight.