Small Mans Encouraged, Mindless Zergs Not?
When you take that camp, you have 100 supplies. Drop a few supply traps, then you have 5 minutes to go knocking on a tower or keep. They come back to take the camp, they get no supplies, even if they get the camp. They wipe out your scratch group hitting their keep tower, but cant repair without using tower/keep supply. Persistance! It works beautifully, I do it all the time! We have been able to SLOWLY turn a map in our favour, it just takes time, patience and persistence. I promise!
I understand what you are saying. What happens after your successful defense? They zerg somewhere else… not split up into smaller groups to recap the camps.
Miller Time – 80 Sylvari Mesmer
Not Just A Goodtime – 80 Asura Warrior
[PAXA]
Not Just A Goodtime – 80 Asura Warrior
[PAXA]
stuff
Some small man want to fight ppl not with siege, but with the skills on there bar. Yes I think a small group that knows what they are doing should be able to wipe a zerg. But if the zerg has half a brain they should kill them or make them run.
Also ppl that think PPT means anything is just silly cause it means nothing. PPT has nothing to do with skill 95% of the time, PPT is population. If the AOE cap was removed or brought to a decent number then I think servers with less pop have a better fighting chance if they have there kitten together.
Still funny how ppl still fight and think PPT means something.
You joined World vs World, to have small fights? And don’t care about your worlds progress? Seems like you should be in SPvP.
And a small group should not be able to take out a large group head on. There is a reason that when the U.S. goes to war, it’s enemies hide, run small groups, and use guerrilla tactics. Only a novice would take their rebel group of 500 against an army of several million. You force them to fight on your level, read my previous reply and fight with your brain, stop trying to go head on.
Spvp is about capping points not fighting other players all the time. Worlds progress? Progress to what? Population = progress in this game nothing else at this time. If there was something to be the number 1 server then i’m sure my mind would change but there isn’t. Servers in T1 are there cause they have numbers 24 hours a day.
Oh I see now…you want to make it mandatory that everyone else plays in small groups just like you.
You’re quite dense, let me sum it up in a simple form of what Jscull is saying. Remove the AoE cap – add skill to WvW. Organized zergs will be fine as they’ll know how to deal with it, mindless zergs will suffer and be forced to get better at playing the game. Small strike teams will not be put at a disadvantage based on game mechanics, just based on the sheer numbers. As it is right now, it’s both numbers and game mechanics.
Irony is completely lost on you PAXA guys, isn’t it?
That said…its obvious what you guys are trying to do. Get ANet to game the system so that it lets your small groups compete against groups it really shouldn’t be able to fight effectively.
PF/ GOAT on Tarnished Coast (Semi-Retired)
Raf Longshanks-80 Norn Guardian / 9 more alts of various lvls / Charter Member Altaholics Anon
Raf Longshanks-80 Norn Guardian / 9 more alts of various lvls / Charter Member Altaholics Anon
(edited by Raf.1078)
I do agree with a larger AoE cap. although I don’t think you understand that they are gonna carry the same firepower of mass AoE that you do when they have uncapped AoE. They are still gonna send five people after every one of you, and still have people to spare. I just think it will help small groups slow down a zerg, but it for sure isn’t going to stop them.
When you take that camp, you have 100 supplies. Drop a few supply traps, then you have 5 minutes to go knocking on a tower or keep. They come back to take the camp, they get no supplies, even if they get the camp. They wipe out your scratch group hitting their keep tower, but cant repair without using tower/keep supply. Persistance! It works beautifully, I do it all the time! We have been able to SLOWLY turn a map in our favour, it just takes time, patience and persistence. I promise!
I understand what you are saying. What happens after your successful defense? They zerg somewhere else… not split up into smaller groups to recap the camps.
If you (a five man group) successfully defended, why isn’t your second five man heading to the next tower? They can do the same thing. After enough “NOPE” from you, they have no choice but to split it up!
I do agree with a larger AoE cap. although I don’t think you understand that they are gonna carry the same firepower of mass AoE that you do when they have uncapped AoE. They are still gonna send five people after every one of you, and still have people to spare. I just think it will help small groups slow down a zerg, but it for sure isn’t going to stop them.
We have been dealing with 5 people to our 1 for months now. thats not new, what would be new, is my 5 being able to hit your 25……deal with that and then lets talk. Because we are already dealing many times with the 5 to 1 ratio of incoming damage. We are saying even up the playing field with DMG OUTPUT and you are scared and dont like the idea.
PAXA -GM
I like a lot of the ideas from you guys, but I fear that you guys aren’t playing WvW as tactfully as you can. Try it out, it really does work.
I do agree with a larger AoE cap. although I don’t think you understand that they are gonna carry the same firepower of mass AoE that you do when they have uncapped AoE. They are still gonna send five people after every one of you, and still have people to spare. I just think it will help small groups slow down a zerg, but it for sure isn’t going to stop them.
We have been dealing with 5 people to our 1 for months now. thats not new, what would be new, is my 5 being able to hit your 25……deal with that and then lets talk. Because we are already dealing many times with the 5 to 1 ratio of incoming damage. We are saying even up the playing field with DMG OUTPUT and you are scared and dont like the idea.
I do not understand what you are saying here. I would like to respond though.
If you (a five man group) successfully defended, why isn’t your second five man heading to the next tower? They can do the same thing. After enough “NOPE” from you, they have no choice but to split it up!
I guess we have just had different experiences in WvW then. Mindless zergs, in my experience, will always run with more people rather than split up. Or they just get frustrated and leave WvW, which none of us want, for obvious reasons as we don’t want WvW to die.
Miller Time – 80 Sylvari Mesmer
Not Just A Goodtime – 80 Asura Warrior
[PAXA]
Not Just A Goodtime – 80 Asura Warrior
[PAXA]
I do agree with a larger AoE cap. although I don’t think you understand that they are gonna carry the same firepower of mass AoE that you do when they have uncapped AoE. They are still gonna send five people after every one of you, and still have people to spare. I just think it will help small groups slow down a zerg, but it for sure isn’t going to stop them.
Ya they will have mass AOE and thats cool but ppl will have to think when they play instead of being in a ball. When they(zerg) spread out leaves the small group to start taking out the ppl 1 by 1(and they cant focus rezz cause there not in a ball) and this is where the skill comes in from the zerg side or the small man side.
Also allows a small man group to defend a tower aginst 30 if they all ball up outside of the gate, or allows them to hold off the wall thats down by AOEing the choke point. Which in turn will help small pop servers as well. Look its not 100% fix but it will help. And I don’t think they should do unlimited aoe cap to start with make 10 or 15 and go from there.
I like a lot of the ideas from you guys, but I fear that you guys aren’t playing WvW as tactfully as you can. Try it out, it really does work.
one thing about our group and a couple other smaller man guilds we know is the points system, capturing towers/camps/keeps/ whatever hasnt been fun after the 100th time taking something. We find enjoyment in fighting peoples best efforts on the field…using the open world platform to roam, best position our group for a fight, while giving ourselves the best advantages to win. Like the guy said, “there is a sense of whats over the hill” in wvw that IS NOT in spvp. We enjoy the random chance, the no time limit, the no kill limit.
What is broken is the fact that Anet has established ZERG ONLY mentality. The aoe cap removal would lessen this mentality and establish a bit more balance. The wvw scene should not just be 5 mans owning 20+ mans. It should be a balance of both. and right now, it is “Bring more numbers because this 5 man over here is good….or just run inside until those 5 guys get bored of our 20 on arrow carts….” pretty boring.
PAXA -GM
(edited by Jscull.2514)
I think its just sour grapes. Maybe PAXA’s oh so skilled small groups have gotten wiped by zergs so they’ve taken to the forums to try and get ANet to change the game in their favor.
I applaud thier tactics…but at the same time, I’m not going to let them go un-challenged either.
PF/ GOAT on Tarnished Coast (Semi-Retired)
Raf Longshanks-80 Norn Guardian / 9 more alts of various lvls / Charter Member Altaholics Anon
Raf Longshanks-80 Norn Guardian / 9 more alts of various lvls / Charter Member Altaholics Anon
If you (a five man group) successfully defended, why isn’t your second five man heading to the next tower? They can do the same thing. After enough “NOPE” from you, they have no choice but to split it up!
I guess we have just had different experiences in WvW then. Mindless zergs, in my experience, will always run with more people rather than split up. Or they just get frustrated and leave WvW, which none of us want, for obvious reasons as we don’t want WvW to die.
It takes a while before they get their heads on and start splitting up to fight you on smaller levels, it doesn’t happen right away, but when it does, you will get EXACTLY what you’re looking for. In the meantime, you get to remind your group that you are conditioning them and turning them into your little pawns with a fraction of their firepower.
As far as the second part, if they are going to leave WvW because you forced them to split up, how is forcing them to play AS five man tactics going to change their decision to leave. They are going to leave if you force them to fight AS five mans anyways.
If you (a five man group) successfully defended, why isn’t your second five man heading to the next tower? They can do the same thing. After enough “NOPE” from you, they have no choice but to split it up!
I guess we have just had different experiences in WvW then. Mindless zergs, in my experience, will always run with more people rather than split up. Or they just get frustrated and leave WvW, which none of us want, for obvious reasons as we don’t want WvW to die.
It takes a while before they get their heads on and start splitting up to fight you on smaller levels, it doesn’t happen right away, but when it does, you will get EXACTLY what you’re looking for. In the meantime, you get to remind your group that you are conditioning them and turning them into your little pawns with a fraction of their firepower.
As far as the second part, if they are going to leave WvW because you forced them to split up, how is forcing them to play AS five man tactics going to change their decision to leave. They are going to leave if you force them to fight AS five mans anyways.
When you arent roaming in a zerg, and you rely on less people to win, your skill naturally increases every fight. This doesnt happen as you are allowed to win in fights just by adding numbers to the pile. If we are allowed to hit more than 5 guys, it will hopefully allow for growth beyond the classic zergball mentality and leave some people with the option of get better or quit, not stay in content land and remain the same forever.
PAXA -GM
I do agree with a larger AoE cap. although I don’t think you understand that they are gonna carry the same firepower of mass AoE that you do when they have uncapped AoE. They are still gonna send five people after every one of you, and still have people to spare. I just think it will help small groups slow down a zerg, but it for sure isn’t going to stop them.
Ya they will have mass AOE and thats cool but ppl will have to think when they play instead of being in a ball.
They are gonna spread like bugs, and will still have 5:1 on you, they wil still wipe you open field
When they(zerg) spread out leaves the small group to start taking out the ppl 1 by 1(and they cant focus rezz cause there not in a ball) and this is where the skill comes in from the zerg side or the small man side.
They are going to spread out just far enough to kill you 5:1Also allows a small man group to defend a tower aginst 30 if they all ball up outside of the gate, or allows them to hold off the wall thats down by AOEing the choke point.
They already allow you to do this. With Siege. That’s what defensive siege is forWhich in turn will help small pop servers as well. Look its not 100% fix but it will help. And I don’t think they should do unlimited aoe cap to start with make 10 or 15 and go from there.
I agree
Responses in bold
I think its just sour grapes. Maybe PAXA’s oh so skilled small groups have gotten wiped by zergs so they’ve taken to the forums to try and get ANet to change the game in their favor.
I applaud thier tactics…but at the same time, I’m not going to let them go un-challenged either.
Dude we are not saying we are the best. It isnt an kitten competition. We want challenge more than just 5v25. We would like more groups attempting to think past “put seige down fire arrow cart or gather 15 before heading out”. Think, how can this group composition work, with these players, these classes….and how can we beat those guys who seem to have their stuff together. THose conversations dont happen that much in this game because Anet has allowed a default way to win, ADD MORE PEOPLE!
Thus this threads arrival and the complaints about wvw becoming stale and boring with ONLY ZERGS!
PAXA -GM
one thing about our group and a couple other smaller man guilds we know is the points system, capturing towers/camps/keeps/ whatever hasnt been fun after the 100th time taking something. We find enjoyment in fighting peoples best efforts on the field…using the open world platform to roam, best position our group for a fight, while giving ourselves the best advantages to win. Like the guy said, “there is a sense of whats over the hill” in wvw that IS NOT in spvp. We enjoy the random chance, the no time limit, the no kill limit.
/agree
And to add to that, you can set your own objectives in WvW each play session even if you don’t really care much about PPT. One night you might be picking off people from a zerg that’s occupied with another zerg/siege while the next night you’re taking/defending camps from other groups while the next night you’re roaming around ganking people. It’s much more of a sandbox style of play than sPvP.
[AS] Tarnished Coast
Mezo and raf, clearly you guys are of the zerging camp and DO NOT wish to leave content land or ever be challenged…Thats fine. There are some that do and we hope Anet realizes this or will be faced with the few competitive people leaving their game for good.
PAXA -GM
I think its just sour grapes. Maybe PAXA’s oh so skilled small groups have gotten wiped by zergs so they’ve taken to the forums to try and get ANet to change the game in their favor.
I applaud thier tactics…but at the same time, I’m not going to let them go un-challenged either.
Why are you tuning this into a PAXA thing? The post was cause maybe the AOE cap will be lifted or something else to help the small groups or lower pop servers to compete due to what ANET posted. We have a couple PAXA guys in here saying how we feel about it and you getting bum hurt.
I like a lot of the ideas from you guys, but I fear that you guys aren’t playing WvW as tactfully as you can. Try it out, it really does work.
one thing about our group and a couple other smaller man guilds we know is the points system, capturing towers/camps/keeps/ whatever hasnt been fun after the 100th time taking something.
That’s WvW, you want to change points?We find enjoyment in fighting peoples best efforts on the field…using the open world platform to roam, best position our group for a fight, while giving ourselves the best advantages to win. Like the guy said, “there is a sense of whats over the hill” in wvw that IS NOT in spvp. We enjoy the random chance, the no time limit, the no kill limit.
I LOVE this, this is what we fight for as well. I perfectly understand you here. Unfortunately, there is a bit more tactic that just fighting these groups, you have to help the overall map as well. This should ADD to your tactics and experience, not deter your experience.What is broken is the fact that Anet has established ZERG ONLY mentality.
From your point of view, but you gotta fight with your head before you can fight with your fists!The aoe cap removal would lessen this mentality and establish a bit more balance.
I agree! But you’re still outnumbered 5:1 even if you can hit all 5 of them, all 5 of them can hit you harder.The wvw scene should not just be 5 mans owning 20+ mans. It should be a balance of both. and right now, it is “Bring more numbers because this 5 man over here is good….or just run inside until those 5 guys get bored of our 20 on arrow carts….” pretty boring.
Many previous responses are telling you how to break up those groups and force them to fight on your level, think like a terrorist!
Responses in bold
I do agree with a larger AoE cap. although I don’t think you understand that they are gonna carry the same firepower of mass AoE that you do when they have uncapped AoE. They are still gonna send five people after every one of you, and still have people to spare. I just think it will help small groups slow down a zerg, but it for sure isn’t going to stop them.
Ya they will have mass AOE and thats cool but ppl will have to think when they play instead of being in a ball.
They are gonna spread like bugs, and will still have 5:1 on you, they wil still wipe you open field
When they(zerg) spread out leaves the small group to start taking out the ppl 1 by 1(and they cant focus rezz cause there not in a ball) and this is where the skill comes in from the zerg side or the small man side.
They are going to spread out just far enough to kill you 5:1Also allows a small man group to defend a tower aginst 30 if they all ball up outside of the gate, or allows them to hold off the wall thats down by AOEing the choke point.
They already allow you to do this. With Siege. That’s what defensive siege is forWhich in turn will help small pop servers as well. Look its not 100% fix but it will help. And I don’t think they should do unlimited aoe cap to start with make 10 or 15 and go from there.
I agreeResponses in bold
Why would it be 5 v 1 on me? if my group moves together not in a ball to avoid the aoe. Wouldn’t that make it 5v5 or 7vs5 for a lil bit allowing us to kill a couple ppl and stomp before kitting back. If those 5 or 7 are good players then we will die and we are cool with that.
Mezo and raf, clearly you guys are of the zerging camp and DO NOT wish to leave content land or ever be challenged…Thats fine. There are some that do and we hope Anet realizes this or will be faced with the few competitive people leaving their game for good.
I have mentioned already that my group never runs with more than 5. I hope this doesn’t constitute a “zerg” in your opinion. I am trying to help you achieve what you are looking for because it IS fun, but it requires that you use your head (something you clamor about, and why zergs suck) before you can be competitive. I am sorry you don’t see that.
Mezo and raf, clearly you guys are of the zerging camp and DO NOT wish to leave content land or ever be challenged…Thats fine. There are some that do and we hope Anet realizes this or will be faced with the few competitive people leaving their game for good.
I have mentioned already that my group never runs with more than 5. I hope this doesn’t constitute a “zerg” in your opinion. I am trying to help you achieve what you are looking for because it IS fun, but it requires that you use your head (something you clamor about, and why zergs suck) before you can be competitive. I am sorry you don’t see that.
I’m not sorry, but you play for meta and we play for kills.
PAXA -GM
If you (a five man group) successfully defended, why isn’t your second five man heading to the next tower? They can do the same thing. After enough “NOPE” from you, they have no choice but to split it up!
I guess we have just had different experiences in WvW then. Mindless zergs, in my experience, will always run with more people rather than split up. Or they just get frustrated and leave WvW, which none of us want, for obvious reasons as we don’t want WvW to die.
It takes a while before they get their heads on and start splitting up to fight you on smaller levels, it doesn’t happen right away, but when it does, you will get EXACTLY what you’re looking for. In the meantime, you get to remind your group that you are conditioning them and turning them into your little pawns with a fraction of their firepower.
As far as the second part, if they are going to leave WvW because you forced them to split up, how is forcing them to play AS five man tactics going to change their decision to leave. They are going to leave if you force them to fight AS five mans anyways.
When you arent roaming in a zerg, and you rely on less people to win, your skill naturally increases every fight. This doesnt happen as you are allowed to win in fights just by adding numbers to the pile. If we are allowed to hit more than 5 guys, it will hopefully allow for growth beyond the classic zergball mentality and leave some people with the option of get better or quit, not stay in content land and remain the same forever.
… We are fighting for the same thing. You are asking ArenaNet to hand you something that already exists but you cant figure it out. I understand what you are saying here, I love it. Uncapping AoE will work like this:
You (5 guys)
Them (50 guys)
You 5 spike a choke hold and drop your uncapped AoE. It will NOT kill them, they dodge roll out or use cool downs. They spread like bugs. Now you have 10:1 on you. You think that you can take on 10 guys yourself, with them all spread out? It only helps you in Towers and Keeps where they (temporarily) cannot get to you. Siege already does this.
Mezo and raf, clearly you guys are of the zerging camp and DO NOT wish to leave content land or ever be challenged…Thats fine. There are some that do and we hope Anet realizes this or will be faced with the few competitive people leaving their game for good.
I have mentioned already that my group never runs with more than 5. I hope this doesn’t constitute a “zerg” in your opinion. I am trying to help you achieve what you are looking for because it IS fun, but it requires that you use your head (something you clamor about, and why zergs suck) before you can be competitive. I am sorry you don’t see that.
I’m not sorry, but you play for meta and we play for kills.
You JUST SAID that you want to fight for “around the hills, and in an open world” THAT IS META. If you just want kills, then you know where you should go.
I do agree with a larger AoE cap. although I don’t think you understand that they are gonna carry the same firepower of mass AoE that you do when they have uncapped AoE. They are still gonna send five people after every one of you, and still have people to spare. I just think it will help small groups slow down a zerg, but it for sure isn’t going to stop them.
We have been dealing with 5 people to our 1 for months now. thats not new, what would be new, is my 5 being able to hit your 25……deal with that and then lets talk. Because we are already dealing many times with the 5 to 1 ratio of incoming damage. We are saying even up the playing field with DMG OUTPUT and you are scared and dont like the idea.
I do not understand what you are saying here. I would like to respond though.
He’s saying that changing the AoE cap has no effect on the zerg. A group of 25 has already been enjoying hitting all 5 players in a group for months, while the group of 5 has been only allowed to do dmg to 20% of them because of game mechanics.
If the cap was changed to 10 the zerg would still hit all 5 of the group, but the group of 5 can now hit 40%. In reality with all the pets and minions and clones, this probably means the group of 5 can now do dmg to actual players.
You’ll see far fewer players running right through your cripple/stun/whatever field immune to its effects just because he’s surrounded by friendlies. Your small group of 5 can use more baiting/terrain/whatever tactics because their abilities will now work against the larger force. Should 5 beat 60? No, never really, but they shouldn’t have their abilities made useless just because there are more than 5 enemies.
Sarsbear – Guardian – SPCA
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgi7iO_2RIWPnXSjnozosg
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgi7iO_2RIWPnXSjnozosg
I think its just sour grapes. Maybe PAXA’s oh so skilled small groups have gotten wiped by zergs so they’ve taken to the forums to try and get ANet to change the game in their favor.
I applaud thier tactics…but at the same time, I’m not going to let them go un-challenged either.
Why are you tuning this into a PAXA thing? The post was cause maybe the AOE cap will be lifted or something else to help the small groups or lower pop servers to compete due to what ANET posted. We have a couple PAXA guys in here saying how we feel about it and you getting bum hurt.
I’m not bum hurt in the least. But couple of Paxa guys in this thread act like they think that thier interpretation of the game is the only one that matters. I disagree with them. And I’ll tell them what I think.
I do like to zerg, except when I’m small grouping with the guild. But I don’t try make make it seem like my views speak for the entire server.
I’ve seen these forum tactics before. People just need to speak up so ANet doesn’t get the idea that your views are the views of everyone involved in WvW. We all have opinions on this game. But none are less valid than anyone else’s.
And creating a long forum thread doesn’t validate those views over anyone else’s either.
PF/ GOAT on Tarnished Coast (Semi-Retired)
Raf Longshanks-80 Norn Guardian / 9 more alts of various lvls / Charter Member Altaholics Anon
Raf Longshanks-80 Norn Guardian / 9 more alts of various lvls / Charter Member Altaholics Anon
That’s WvW, you want to change points?
Again it suck but points = nothing in this game at this time all it does is = population.
What do you get for being 1st on t1 or being 1st on t8 nothing its the same. So whats the difference, population.
I do agree with a larger AoE cap. although I don’t think you understand that they are gonna carry the same firepower of mass AoE that you do when they have uncapped AoE. They are still gonna send five people after every one of you, and still have people to spare. I just think it will help small groups slow down a zerg, but it for sure isn’t going to stop them.
We have been dealing with 5 people to our 1 for months now. thats not new, what would be new, is my 5 being able to hit your 25……deal with that and then lets talk. Because we are already dealing many times with the 5 to 1 ratio of incoming damage. We are saying even up the playing field with DMG OUTPUT and you are scared and dont like the idea.
I do not understand what you are saying here. I would like to respond though.
He’s saying that changing the AoE cap has no effect on the zerg. A group of 25 has already been enjoying hitting all 5 players in a group for months, while the group of 5 has been only allowed to do dmg to 20% of them because of game mechanics.
If the cap was changed to 10 the zerg would still hit all 5 of the group, but the group of 5 can now hit 40%. In reality with all the pets and minions and clones, this probably means the group of 5 can now do dmg to actual players.
You’ll see far fewer players running right through your cripple/stun/whatever field immune to its effects just because he’s surrounded by friendlies. Your small group of 5 can use more baiting/terrain/whatever tactics because their abilities will now work against the larger force. Should 5 beat 60? No, never really, but they shouldn’t have their abilities made useless just because there are more than 5 enemies.
Thank you, he re-wrote it so I could understand and I replied. There is no reason to believe that uncapping the AoE will do anything in open world. They will dodge roll out or use cool downs, they spread out and you’re dead anyways.
I do agree with a larger AoE cap. although I don’t think you understand that they are gonna carry the same firepower of mass AoE that you do when they have uncapped AoE. They are still gonna send five people after every one of you, and still have people to spare. I just think it will help small groups slow down a zerg, but it for sure isn’t going to stop them.
We have been dealing with 5 people to our 1 for months now. thats not new, what would be new, is my 5 being able to hit your 25……deal with that and then lets talk. Because we are already dealing many times with the 5 to 1 ratio of incoming damage. We are saying even up the playing field with DMG OUTPUT and you are scared and dont like the idea.
I do not understand what you are saying here. I would like to respond though.
He’s saying that changing the AoE cap has no effect on the zerg. A group of 25 has already been enjoying hitting all 5 players in a group for months, while the group of 5 has been only allowed to do dmg to 20% of them because of game mechanics.
If the cap was changed to 10 the zerg would still hit all 5 of the group, but the group of 5 can now hit 40%. In reality with all the pets and minions and clones, this probably means the group of 5 can now do dmg to actual players.
You’ll see far fewer players running right through your cripple/stun/whatever field immune to its effects just because he’s surrounded by friendlies. Your small group of 5 can use more baiting/terrain/whatever tactics because their abilities will now work against the larger force. Should 5 beat 60? No, never really, but they shouldn’t have their abilities made useless just because there are more than 5 enemies.
Well put sarsbear.
I do agree with a larger AoE cap. although I don’t think you understand that they are gonna carry the same firepower of mass AoE that you do when they have uncapped AoE. They are still gonna send five people after every one of you, and still have people to spare. I just think it will help small groups slow down a zerg, but it for sure isn’t going to stop them.
We have been dealing with 5 people to our 1 for months now. thats not new, what would be new, is my 5 being able to hit your 25……deal with that and then lets talk. Because we are already dealing many times with the 5 to 1 ratio of incoming damage. We are saying even up the playing field with DMG OUTPUT and you are scared and dont like the idea.
I do not understand what you are saying here. I would like to respond though.
He’s saying that changing the AoE cap has no effect on the zerg. A group of 25 has already been enjoying hitting all 5 players in a group for months, while the group of 5 has been only allowed to do dmg to 20% of them because of game mechanics.
If the cap was changed to 10 the zerg would still hit all 5 of the group, but the group of 5 can now hit 40%. In reality with all the pets and minions and clones, this probably means the group of 5 can now do dmg to actual players.
You’ll see far fewer players running right through your cripple/stun/whatever field immune to its effects just because he’s surrounded by friendlies. Your small group of 5 can use more baiting/terrain/whatever tactics because their abilities will now work against the larger force. Should 5 beat 60? No, never really, but they shouldn’t have their abilities made useless just because there are more than 5 enemies.
Thank you, he re-wrote it so I could understand and I replied. There is no reason to believe that uncapping the AoE will do anything in open world. They will dodge roll out or use cool downs, they spread out and you’re dead anyways.
If you don’t think it will help then it should be no big deal if they do it. I could be wrong cause I started playing WVW late cause I used to spvp. But didn’t the 5 cap come in later cause small organized groups where killing zergs? I could be wrong I thought I read that somewhere.
That’s WvW, you want to change points?
Again it suck but points = nothing in this game at this time all it does is = population.
What do you get for being 1st on t1 or being 1st on t8 nothing its the same. So whats the difference, population.
I believe 1st place right now is Sanctum of Rall. Their population is large, but I believe the last census stated they were still smaller population than #2 & #3. I would assume they DO get something out of it (although not material from ArenaNet) from being number one. That’s why they fight. Population does play a very big role in WvW. I don’t dis-agree with you there. But it certainly isn’t the end all be all of WvW, and if you aren’t playing for points anyways, then you have an even bigger advantage in the fact that you can take your time in breaking those zergs up. It’s like surgery without a timer!
I do agree with a larger AoE cap. although I don’t think you understand that they are gonna carry the same firepower of mass AoE that you do when they have uncapped AoE. They are still gonna send five people after every one of you, and still have people to spare. I just think it will help small groups slow down a zerg, but it for sure isn’t going to stop them.
We have been dealing with 5 people to our 1 for months now. thats not new, what would be new, is my 5 being able to hit your 25……deal with that and then lets talk. Because we are already dealing many times with the 5 to 1 ratio of incoming damage. We are saying even up the playing field with DMG OUTPUT and you are scared and dont like the idea.
I do not understand what you are saying here. I would like to respond though.
He’s saying that changing the AoE cap has no effect on the zerg. A group of 25 has already been enjoying hitting all 5 players in a group for months, while the group of 5 has been only allowed to do dmg to 20% of them because of game mechanics.
If the cap was changed to 10 the zerg would still hit all 5 of the group, but the group of 5 can now hit 40%. In reality with all the pets and minions and clones, this probably means the group of 5 can now do dmg to actual players.
You’ll see far fewer players running right through your cripple/stun/whatever field immune to its effects just because he’s surrounded by friendlies. Your small group of 5 can use more baiting/terrain/whatever tactics because their abilities will now work against the larger force. Should 5 beat 60? No, never really, but they shouldn’t have their abilities made useless just because there are more than 5 enemies.
Thank you, he re-wrote it so I could understand and I replied. There is no reason to believe that uncapping the AoE will do anything in open world. They will dodge roll out or use cool downs, they spread out and you’re dead anyways.
If you don’t think it will help then it should be no big deal if they do it. I could be wrong cause I started playing WVW late cause I used to spvp. But didn’t the 5 cap come in later cause small organized groups where killing zergs? I could be wrong I thought I read that somewhere.
I just want to remind you guys that I agree with you for removing the AoE cap. The five man cap came in because the fights did not last long enough to player’s and ArenaNet’s goals. You would have 50 on 50, they would drop all of their AoE, and the fight would be over in a matter of seconds, as opposed to the more long and drawn out encounters we have now, NOT because small mans were wiping out big groups. I agree with that, it would suck to roam a map as a zerg with 5 Eles for a few minutes to finally find another force, then only get 4 seconds of fighting because they had 10 Eles.
You 5 spike a choke hold and drop your uncapped AoE. It will NOT kill them, they dodge roll out or use cool downs. They spread like bugs. Now you have 10:1 on you. You think that you can take on 10 guys yourself, with them all spread out? It only helps you in Towers and Keeps where they (temporarily) cannot get to you. Siege already does this.
You seem to be describing players that know what they are doing. Skilless players, which there are plenty of in WvW, will not be playing smartly, and deserved to be punished for it. Right now, they are not punished what-so-ever for their lack of game knowledge.
Miller Time – 80 Sylvari Mesmer
Not Just A Goodtime – 80 Asura Warrior
[PAXA]
Not Just A Goodtime – 80 Asura Warrior
[PAXA]
But it certainly isn’t the end all be all of WvW, and if you aren’t playing for points anyways, then you have an even bigger advantage in the fact that you can take your time in breaking those zergs up. It’s like surgery without a timer!
I was just saying that cause you seemed to wonder why we didn’t play for points. No AOE cap or lets say a 15 limit to AOE cap would make sense as sarsbear stated in that way.
I do agree with a larger AoE cap. although I don’t think you understand that they are gonna carry the same firepower of mass AoE that you do when they have uncapped AoE. They are still gonna send five people after every one of you, and still have people to spare. I just think it will help small groups slow down a zerg, but it for sure isn’t going to stop them.
We have been dealing with 5 people to our 1 for months now. thats not new, what would be new, is my 5 being able to hit your 25……deal with that and then lets talk. Because we are already dealing many times with the 5 to 1 ratio of incoming damage. We are saying even up the playing field with DMG OUTPUT and you are scared and dont like the idea.
I do not understand what you are saying here. I would like to respond though.
He’s saying that changing the AoE cap has no effect on the zerg. A group of 25 has already been enjoying hitting all 5 players in a group for months, while the group of 5 has been only allowed to do dmg to 20% of them because of game mechanics.
If the cap was changed to 10 the zerg would still hit all 5 of the group, but the group of 5 can now hit 40%. In reality with all the pets and minions and clones, this probably means the group of 5 can now do dmg to actual players.
You’ll see far fewer players running right through your cripple/stun/whatever field immune to its effects just because he’s surrounded by friendlies. Your small group of 5 can use more baiting/terrain/whatever tactics because their abilities will now work against the larger force. Should 5 beat 60? No, never really, but they shouldn’t have their abilities made useless just because there are more than 5 enemies.
Thank you, he re-wrote it so I could understand and I replied. There is no reason to believe that uncapping the AoE will do anything in open world. They will dodge roll out or use cool downs, they spread out and you’re dead anyways.
If you don’t think it will help then it should be no big deal if they do it. I could be wrong cause I started playing WVW late cause I used to spvp. But didn’t the 5 cap come in later cause small organized groups where killing zergs? I could be wrong I thought I read that somewhere.
I just want to remind you guys that I agree with you for removing the AoE cap. The five man cap came in because the fights did not last long enough to player’s and ArenaNet’s goals. You would have 50 on 50, they would drop all of their AoE, and the fight would be over in a matter of seconds, as opposed to the more long and drawn out encounters we have now, NOT because small mans were wiping out big groups. I agree with that, it would suck to roam a map as a zerg with 5 Eles for a few minutes to finally find another force, then only get 4 seconds of fighting because they had 10 Eles.
Well maybe then the AOE cap just needs to be raised to 10 or 15. It makes sense why they did it then, tho you can get back into the fight in under 15 sec the way the maps are made hehe. I think raising the AOE cap to hit players is raised to 10 would be a great start.
You 5 spike a choke hold and drop your uncapped AoE. It will NOT kill them, they dodge roll out or use cool downs. They spread like bugs. Now you have 10:1 on you. You think that you can take on 10 guys yourself, with them all spread out? It only helps you in Towers and Keeps where they (temporarily) cannot get to you. Siege already does this.
You seem to be describing players that know what they are doing. Skilless players, which there are plenty of in WvW, will not be playing smartly, and deserved to be punished for it. Right now, they are not punished what-so-ever for their lack of game knowledge.
You consider dodge rolling or using cool downs to get out of mass AoE skill? If they do this they “know what they are doing” and if they do not they are “skill less”. If that’s all that makes the difference from a skilled player to a not skilled I think you and are talking very different levels of tactics. I apologize for wasting your time.
I do agree with a larger AoE cap. although I don’t think you understand that they are gonna carry the same firepower of mass AoE that you do when they have uncapped AoE. They are still gonna send five people after every one of you, and still have people to spare. I just think it will help small groups slow down a zerg, but it for sure isn’t going to stop them.
We have been dealing with 5 people to our 1 for months now. thats not new, what would be new, is my 5 being able to hit your 25……deal with that and then lets talk. Because we are already dealing many times with the 5 to 1 ratio of incoming damage. We are saying even up the playing field with DMG OUTPUT and you are scared and dont like the idea.
I do not understand what you are saying here. I would like to respond though.
He’s saying that changing the AoE cap has no effect on the zerg. A group of 25 has already been enjoying hitting all 5 players in a group for months, while the group of 5 has been only allowed to do dmg to 20% of them because of game mechanics.
If the cap was changed to 10 the zerg would still hit all 5 of the group, but the group of 5 can now hit 40%. In reality with all the pets and minions and clones, this probably means the group of 5 can now do dmg to actual players.
You’ll see far fewer players running right through your cripple/stun/whatever field immune to its effects just because he’s surrounded by friendlies. Your small group of 5 can use more baiting/terrain/whatever tactics because their abilities will now work against the larger force. Should 5 beat 60? No, never really, but they shouldn’t have their abilities made useless just because there are more than 5 enemies.
Thank you, he re-wrote it so I could understand and I replied. There is no reason to believe that uncapping the AoE will do anything in open world. They will dodge roll out or use cool downs, they spread out and you’re dead anyways.
If you don’t think it will help then it should be no big deal if they do it. I could be wrong cause I started playing WVW late cause I used to spvp. But didn’t the 5 cap come in later cause small organized groups where killing zergs? I could be wrong I thought I read that somewhere.
I just want to remind you guys that I agree with you for removing the AoE cap. The five man cap came in because the fights did not last long enough to player’s and ArenaNet’s goals. You would have 50 on 50, they would drop all of their AoE, and the fight would be over in a matter of seconds, as opposed to the more long and drawn out encounters we have now, NOT because small mans were wiping out big groups. I agree with that, it would suck to roam a map as a zerg with 5 Eles for a few minutes to finally find another force, then only get 4 seconds of fighting because they had 10 Eles.
Well maybe then the AOE cap just needs to be raised to 10 or 15. It makes sense why they did it then, tho you can get back into the fight in under 15 sec the way the maps are made hehe. I think raising the AOE cap to hit players is raised to 10 would be a great start.
Hear hear!
Mezo how many people does ur “5 man” hit back peddling facing you coming right at them? Get maybe an ability or two off? Seems like the majority of zergers play with this style that we hit….
PAXA -GM
You 5 spike a choke hold and drop your uncapped AoE. It will NOT kill them, they dodge roll out or use cool downs. They spread like bugs. Now you have 10:1 on you. You think that you can take on 10 guys yourself, with them all spread out? It only helps you in Towers and Keeps where they (temporarily) cannot get to you. Siege already does this.
You seem to be describing players that know what they are doing. Skilless players, which there are plenty of in WvW, will not be playing smartly, and deserved to be punished for it. Right now, they are not punished what-so-ever for their lack of game knowledge.
Seconded. Lack of game knowledge shouldn’t be catered to after a point. This game allows for content land to extend forever with success!
PAXA -GM
Mezo how many people does ur “5 man” hit back peddling facing you coming right at them? Get maybe an ability or two off? Seems like the majority of zergers play with this style that we hit….
Are you asking:
“How many stay and fight (while back peddling away from us) before they actually come at you?” or, are you asking, “How many people we hit with our skills as we back peddle away from a zerg coming at us?”
You 5 spike a choke hold and drop your uncapped AoE. It will NOT kill them, they dodge roll out or use cool downs. They spread like bugs. Now you have 10:1 on you. You think that you can take on 10 guys yourself, with them all spread out? It only helps you in Towers and Keeps where they (temporarily) cannot get to you. Siege already does this.
You seem to be describing players that know what they are doing. Skilless players, which there are plenty of in WvW, will not be playing smartly, and deserved to be punished for it. Right now, they are not punished what-so-ever for their lack of game knowledge.
Seconded. Lack of game knowledge shouldn’t be catered to after a point. This game allows for content land to extend forever with success!
“You consider dodge rolling or using cool downs to get out of mass AoE skill? If they do this they “know what they are doing” and if they do not they are “skill less”. If that’s all that makes the difference from a skilled player to a not skilled I think you and are talking very different levels of tactics. I apologize for wasting your time.” – Me
I’m not bum hurt in the least. But couple of Paxa guys in this thread act like they think that thier interpretation of the game is the only one that matters. I disagree with them. And I’ll tell them what I think.
I do like to zerg, except when I’m small grouping with the guild. But I don’t try make make it seem like my views speak for the entire server.
I’ve seen these forum tactics before. People just need to speak up so ANet doesn’t get the idea that your views are the views of everyone involved in WvW. We all have opinions on this game. But none are less valid than anyone else’s.
And creating a long forum thread doesn’t validate those views over anyone else’s either.
I tried to explain it to you in extremely simple words, but it still seems to go over your head as you say that we think our way to play the game is the only one that matters. Until you offer some cognitive ability to hold a conversation and show some sort of reading comprehension, I’ll just let you continue on posting your slander towards us and refrain from responding to you from here on out.
Not to be harsh, but I would hardly blame him for not understanding what you two are saying. I did’t call you out maliciously because I figured there is probably a legitimate excuse (ESL, emotional, young) for you two not writing clearly. I found this reply funny. Again, sorry that I AM now calling you out on it. I’ll gladly keep to the discussion of wvw as opposed to digressing to the petty though!
You 5 spike a choke hold and drop your uncapped AoE. It will NOT kill them, they dodge roll out or use cool downs. They spread like bugs. Now you have 10:1 on you. You think that you can take on 10 guys yourself, with them all spread out? It only helps you in Towers and Keeps where they (temporarily) cannot get to you. Siege already does this.
You seem to be describing players that know what they are doing. Skilless players, which there are plenty of in WvW, will not be playing smartly, and deserved to be punished for it. Right now, they are not punished what-so-ever for their lack of game knowledge.
Seconded. Lack of game knowledge shouldn’t be catered to after a point. This game allows for content land to extend forever with success!
“You consider dodge rolling or using cool downs to get out of mass AoE skill? If they do this they “know what they are doing” and if they do not they are “skill less”. If that’s all that makes the difference from a skilled player to a not skilled I think you and are talking very different levels of tactics. I apologize for wasting your time.” – Me
Then your lack of comprehending what sarsbear wrote is a falsity. 3 staff eles aoeing on top of 30 guys should drop said 30 guys if clumped and remain clumped. That is fact if the Aoe cap was removed. You telling us that Aoe cap won’t help is incorrect.
PAXA -GM
You consider dodge rolling or using cool downs to get out of mass AoE skill? If they do this they “know what they are doing” and if they do not they are “skill less”. If that’s all that makes the difference from a skilled player to a not skilled I think you and are talking very different levels of tactics. I apologize for wasting your time.
Sorry, I guess I should have expanded on my thoughts. The average WvW player in my mind is that ranger that auto attacks while backstepping, and continues to do so while he is being focused. It is sad that I consider those that know how to dodge out of AoE to be among the more knowledgeable of the mindless zerg population… but I guarantee you if there was no AoE cap that our 5 man, and yours as well I am sure, would never lose to that skilless zerg. As it is right now, our initial hit will drop a good amount of them, but they have 3 people resing each downed zergling, and eventually we have to string them out or are forced off due to the sheer amount of damage that 30 auto attacks can do.
I guess this is getting a bit off topic from what I initially thought for this thread. I am just excited to see that the devs are trying to implement more skilled combat into WvW, and it is obviously something that some people don’t want (Not you Mezo, but our friend Raf here).
Miller Time – 80 Sylvari Mesmer
Not Just A Goodtime – 80 Asura Warrior
[PAXA]
Not Just A Goodtime – 80 Asura Warrior
[PAXA]
You 5 spike a choke hold and drop your uncapped AoE. It will NOT kill them, they dodge roll out or use cool downs. They spread like bugs. Now you have 10:1 on you. You think that you can take on 10 guys yourself, with them all spread out? It only helps you in Towers and Keeps where they (temporarily) cannot get to you. Siege already does this.
You seem to be describing players that know what they are doing. Skilless players, which there are plenty of in WvW, will not be playing smartly, and deserved to be punished for it. Right now, they are not punished what-so-ever for their lack of game knowledge.
Seconded. Lack of game knowledge shouldn’t be catered to after a point. This game allows for content land to extend forever with success!
“You consider dodge rolling or using cool downs to get out of mass AoE skill? If they do this they “know what they are doing” and if they do not they are “skill less”. If that’s all that makes the difference from a skilled player to a not skilled I think you and are talking very different levels of tactics. I apologize for wasting your time.” – Me
Then your lack of comprehending what sarsbear wrote is a falsity. 3 staff eles aoeing on top of 30 guys should drop said 30 guys if clumped and remain clumped. That is fact if the Aoe cap was removed. You telling us that Aoe cap won’t help is incorrect.
That is not precisely why the AoE cap was put in place, see my earlier responses.
I would like to confirm from you though that you think it is fair for 3 Eles to drop meteor shower on a group of 25, and should wipe them out without actually putting thought in to the fight beyond “put them in the choke and drop one spell”. That would be “tactics” to you?
So we are emotional or immature because we want the Aoe cap removed or increased and don’t agree with Zergs not being forced to ever get better as players in order to achieve success?
PAXA -GM
You 5 spike a choke hold and drop your uncapped AoE. It will NOT kill them, they dodge roll out or use cool downs. They spread like bugs. Now you have 10:1 on you. You think that you can take on 10 guys yourself, with them all spread out? It only helps you in Towers and Keeps where they (temporarily) cannot get to you. Siege already does this.
You seem to be describing players that know what they are doing. Skilless players, which there are plenty of in WvW, will not be playing smartly, and deserved to be punished for it. Right now, they are not punished what-so-ever for their lack of game knowledge.
Seconded. Lack of game knowledge shouldn’t be catered to after a point. This game allows for content land to extend forever with success!
“You consider dodge rolling or using cool downs to get out of mass AoE skill? If they do this they “know what they are doing” and if they do not they are “skill less”. If that’s all that makes the difference from a skilled player to a not skilled I think you and are talking very different levels of tactics. I apologize for wasting your time.” – Me
Then your lack of comprehending what sarsbear wrote is a falsity. 3 staff eles aoeing on top of 30 guys should drop said 30 guys if clumped and remain clumped. That is fact if the Aoe cap was removed. You telling us that Aoe cap won’t help is incorrect.
That is not precisely why the AoE cap was put in place, see my earlier responses.
I would like to confirm from you though that you think it is fair for 3 Eles to drop meteor shower on a group of 25, and should wipe them out without actually putting thought in to the fight beyond “put them in the choke and drop one spell”. That would be “tactics” to you?
Anyone else is welcome to answer this question as well cuz I think it is relevant…. I agree it should be able to happen, and I believe those 30 should learn to GET THE F OUT OF THE WAY
PAXA -GM
I’ve personally held a tower against a group of 30 by myself before. It isn’t that hard to figure out how to do it, either. I went up to a vantage point that gave me a view of the door, and then built a superior arrow cart up there by myself. I sat there waiting for awhile, and then when a large enemy group came up and started making rams, I rained down damage against them and they had to abandon their pursuit. This group lacked the wit to defeat me, so I was all proud afterward.
That said, I wouldn’t mind more equipment that either punishes large groups or strengthens the little man. The hard part about this is that most things that help the little man also help the big one even more. Take the AoE limits. Now, a lot of players are saying that removing the AoE limits will benefit the little guy, but the fact is that it benefits the giant zergs more. Without the AoE boon limit, zergs would be running around permanently under maximum might, invisible, and with 100% uptime on retaliation. So instead you would have to get rid of the AoE limit for just damaging attacks, but even then this leads to more abuse via retaliation, since instead of just 5 ticks you can now be hit for 50 ticks. Removing the AoE cap, even on just offense, makes the whole game about retaliation then.
Lets say you want more mobile siege that isn’t as expensive as golems, letting groups get mobility and strength. That’s nice, until you realize that zergs can make them too, and so zergs change from giant balls of players to giant balls of players and roaming chariots. Since the bigger groups have more people and more supplies that have better abilities to make these things.
Lets say you want to make damaging traps in WvW. It sounds great, because when players bunch up they’ll take a ton of damage, and with the low cost of traps it can make defense and offense better. But then, the zerg balls get these traps, too, and suddenly your small group can’t wander anywhere because damage traps litter the field and are in every camp, every tower, and every keep.
Lets say you want to remove the in-keep waypoints. That way, it is easier to assault different points on the map while making it harder for a giant zerg ball to rush in and stomp you. Problem is, the giant zerg ball can do this too, so without the sheer numbers to defend the towers and keeps the zerg ball will just run through everything, smashing through defenses like they’re paper while taking everything and your group can’t get there fast enough to defend. Because they stay together they stay alive, and by staying alive they can maintain more presence at the frontlines.
I wrack my mind with this frequently. I’ll think of something that I think will help out the little man, but then I think about it more and I discover that it’ll help out the big groups more. At the end of the day, pretty whomever has superior numbers has the advantage. The best things I can come up with are the removal of the AoE damage cap (which CAN bite you back but won’t always), and damaging traps which indeed are more effective against tightly packed groups. At the same time, this will make things harder for smaller groups, but it can give them an edge if used right.
I don’t have opinions. I only have facts I can’t adequately prove.