Guild Wars 2

Valentin.2073:

mrmadhaze.8706:

Valentin.2073:

i don’t like it when i see a thief surviving a 1v3 fight.

So you should not like it when happens with other classes aswell, but the scapegoat thief is always cool. Maybe that thief was better then other 3 ppl, maybe better than you. Ah no right, you can kill every thief even if you are still crying here

As always the problem is the lootbag, the+1. not the balance.
Luckily tpvpers are the best player in the best balanced game… :P

you people still dont get it, do you?? or you just refuse to understand? black powder + hs combo should not get a thief a free stealth each time he executes it. if you think you are a good player running such a cheese build you are only fooling yourself.

pls try playing a different class, use a zerker build and compare the difference. thank you.

Playing in Bers with class without stealth – dang it, u r genius! Let’s nerf all around! Condi Necros and Mesmers too – coz they will just eat you without even stealth
Not because they are overpowered, no! Because you are didn’t know your class.
bet, you are running with long and short bows ><

Valentin.2073:

Cynz.9437:

so basically you chose a build that is not optimal for wvw and asks for nerfs for class that is only good at roaming….

not only that, you admit that you wiped the floor with that thief because they didn’t use stealth… doesn’t it prove how kittenty the class is w/o stealth

i don’t like it when i see a thief surviving a 1v3 fight. it doesnt feel right. you play tpvp too, right? do you see that happen there? no. i only get to see that in wvw because most thieves here abuse stealth.

you have many options to still be viable. d/d setup is not that bad but those d/p thieves just prefer to take the easy way.

I saw plenty of classes capable of doing that (hello PU mesmers, hello warriors, GUADIANS???), it is not something you see only thieves doing….i have a guildie, he plays necro, he 5v1 at some point and won the fight… and he plays hybrid necro build w/o dhuumfire….should we ask for major necro nerf now? The truth is WvW is unfair, you will never see it as balanced as pvp is because of 2 reasons:
- armor/level disparity
- no MMR that protects noob/bad players from skilled players (althrough soloq still fails at it sometimes)

On top of it, WvW spoils players, it teaches them that spamming 1 in big group is efficient. Most of them don’t even bother actually getting better at their class or learning anything, they just bring more numbers. If that thief managed to pull 3v1 then hat off for him, because honestly given thief survivability it is not exactly the easiest task.

As far as tpvp goes, yes i have seen ppl winning 3v1 fights althrough it is rare simply because how small map is and how easy it to come help your teammate. Also, above mentioned WvW “features” don’t really exist in pvp (lol HJ doesn’t count).

Honestly, define abuse stealth? I am not trying to defend perma stealth as i myself find it rather pointless (dumping all ini into stealth is not killing anyone), but the class IS built around stealth, how do you expect them to live other way? Should we blame guards for “abusing” boons? Should we blame eles for “abusing” heals?

What other options? Evade? Well, seems like players don’t like that either because S/D got nerfed majorly and PW is getting nerf as well. You tell players basically that because you find d/p unskillfull everyone should be forced to play d/d but then again you ask for stealth nerfs as far i understand? which is funny considering how d/d relies on stealth more than d/p.

Last note, you won’t see thieves using stealth as much in pvp due to conquest and team actually helping each other. In wvw you don’t have such option, you have to play for yourself, there is also no conquest. That is why 99% of the thieves you will meet in WvW run SA for more survival (which most traits ARE based on stealth), where in pvp thieves use trickery for team utility since they can rely on teammates to keep them up as well.

urieldhynne.2743:

frans.8092:

I invite you to make a thief and try roaming in Wvw and score some points for a couple of days, with S/P or P/P, or whatever stealth-less build you think works and then form your opinion.

I suggest the same for you.

I am leveling a ranger and plan to take her into Wvw. There are many videos of non-thieves doing 1vX, so you don’t have to wait for me.

Meanwhile, since you want to play the mirror game and I don’t claim class x is easy to play I suggest people who don’t play thieves shut up claiming it is easy to play a thief.

Valentin.2073:

i’m both a ransacker and a champion hunter.

But you think it’s unfair when a, possibly experienced thief, takes a couple of inexperienced players for a ride. There are many videos of non-thieves doing 1vX.

frans.8092:

I suggest people who don’t play thieves shut up...

... shut up and try to play as thief if they are thinking it’s sooo easy.

Cynz.9437:

Valentin.2073:

Cynz.9437:

so basically you chose a build that is not optimal for wvw and asks for nerfs for class that is only good at roaming….

not only that, you admit that you wiped the floor with that thief because they didn’t use stealth… doesn’t it prove how kittenty the class is w/o stealth

i don’t like it when i see a thief surviving a 1v3 fight. it doesnt feel right. you play tpvp too, right? do you see that happen there? no. i only get to see that in wvw because most thieves here abuse stealth.

you have many options to still be viable. d/d setup is not that bad but those d/p thieves just prefer to take the easy way.

I saw plenty of classes capable of doing that (hello PU mesmers, hello warriors, GUADIANS???), it is not something you see only thieves doing….i have a guildie, he plays necro, he 5v1 at some point and won the fight… and he plays hybrid necro build w/o dhuumfire….should we ask for major necro nerf now? The truth is WvW is unfair, you will never see it as balanced as pvp is because of 2 reasons:
- armor/level disparity
- no MMR that protects noob/bad players from skilled players (althrough soloq still fails at it sometimes)

On top of it, WvW spoils players, it teaches them that spamming 1 in big group is efficient. Most of them don’t even bother actually getting better at their class or learning anything, they just bring more numbers. If that thief managed to pull 3v1 then hat off for him, because honestly given thief survivability it is not exactly the easiest task.

As far as tpvp goes, yes i have seen ppl winning 3v1 fights althrough it is rare simply because how small map is and how easy it to come help your teammate. Also, above mentioned WvW “features” don’t really exist in pvp (lol HJ doesn’t count).

Honestly, define abuse stealth? I am not trying to defend perma stealth as i myself find it rather pointless (dumping all ini into stealth is not killing anyone), but the class IS built around stealth, how do you expect them to live other way? Should we blame guards for “abusing” boons? Should we blame eles for “abusing” heals?

What other options? Evade? Well, seems like players don’t like that either because S/D got nerfed majorly and PW is getting nerf as well. You tell players basically that because you find d/p unskillfull everyone should be forced to play d/d but then again you ask for stealth nerfs as far i understand? which is funny considering how d/d relies on stealth more than d/p.

Last note, you won’t see thieves using stealth as much in pvp due to conquest and team actually helping each other. In wvw you don’t have such option, you have to play for yourself, there is also no conquest. That is why 99% of the thieves you will meet in WvW run SA for more survival (which most traits ARE based on stealth), where in pvp thieves use trickery for team utility since they can rely on teammates to keep them up as well.

This. I won a 1v4 with my Shatter Mesmer, once.
Nerf mesmers?

frans.8092:

urieldhynne.2743:

frans.8092:

I invite you to make a thief and try roaming in Wvw and score some points for a couple of days, with S/P or P/P, or whatever stealth-less build you think works and then form your opinion.

I suggest the same for you.

I am leveling a ranger and plan to take her into Wvw. There are many videos of non-thieves doing 1vX, so you don’t have to wait for me.

Meanwhile, since you want to play the mirror game and I don’t claim class x is easy to play I suggest people who don’t play thieves shut up claiming it is easy to play a thief.

I have 5 classes in level 80 only for wvw. One of them is a thief.

You don’t understand that 1vx and “how counter need to work” i suggest to read the analysis Aegael.6938 did in page 2.

hihey.1075:

This. I won a 1v4 with my Shatter Mesmer, once.
Nerf mesmers?

I win a lot of outnumbered fight with a lot of my characters. But because or i played better or they was so bad. But they can counter me. They can see me and they can actually do thing directly to me, not trying to guessing where i am.

The problem with stealth in this game is like “I CAN BACK IN TIME”

If something go wrong, i “hit the button” back in time, refill everything, a new start to try again over and over without leaving actually the fight! and i can do that EVERY TIME.

Is a PERMA UNDO ABILITY. That is the problem.

And stealth in this game is actually invisibility. There is no stealth skill here. There is invisibility.

lol… its funny how these thieves telling me to l2p. a thief telling a ranger to l2p and i’m a CHAMPION HUNTER. i might have spent more time killing other players than most of these pve thieves.

urieldhynne.2743:

hihey.1075:

This. I won a 1v4 with my Shatter Mesmer, once.
Nerf mesmers?

I win a lot of outnumbered fight with a lot of my characters. But because or i played better or they was so bad. But they can counter me. They can see me and they can actually do thing directly to me, not trying to guessing where i am.

The problem with stealth in this game is like “I CAN BACK IN TIME”

If something go wrong, i “hit the button” back in time, refill everything, a new start to try again over and over without leaving actually the fight! and i can do that EVERY TIME.

Is a PERMA UNDO ABILITY. That is the problem.

And stealth in this game is actually invisibility. There is no stealth skill here. There is invisibility.

I don’t see any problem actually. A warrior with GS has the same ability of resetting the fights at ease. A PU mesmer can do it too easily (if he has traveler runes and a bit of wit).

What I see here are people complaining that “we can’t kill a thief”. Why do you even have to kill him in the first place? Don’t you know that a thief will need to blow everyone of his utilities to chase people? Even if thieves have great mobility, they need to use everything to catch up with a fleeing opponent, and they will rarely do so if the opponent is at full health.

hihey.1075:

urieldhynne.2743:

hihey.1075:

This. I won a 1v4 with my Shatter Mesmer, once.
Nerf mesmers?

I win a lot of outnumbered fight with a lot of my characters. But because or i played better or they was so bad. But they can counter me. They can see me and they can actually do thing directly to me, not trying to guessing where i am.

The problem with stealth in this game is like “I CAN BACK IN TIME”

If something go wrong, i “hit the button” back in time, refill everything, a new start to try again over and over without leaving actually the fight! and i can do that EVERY TIME.

Is a PERMA UNDO ABILITY. That is the problem.

And stealth in this game is actually invisibility. There is no stealth skill here. There is invisibility.

I don’t see any problem actually. A warrior with GS has the same ability of resetting the fights at ease. A PU mesmer can do it too easily (if he has traveler runes and a bit of wit).

What I see here are people complaining that “we can’t kill a thief”. Why do you even have to kill him in the first place? Don’t you know that a thief will need to blow everyone of his utilities to chase people? Even if thieves have great mobility, they need to use everything to catch up with a fleeing opponent, and they will rarely do so if the opponent is at full health.

I have a warrior, a thief, not a mesmer. But i agree with you, warrior GS mobility is absurd. And PU mesmer too. We are talking about thief right now. Other broken mechanics dont make stealth right.

Is like “a lot of ppl steal! so is fine if i steal because another do it” no is not. Stealth is broken like PU mesmer, like GS mobility and a lot of others things.

PU mesmer cant reset a fight like a thief. Warrior GS yes but in a diferent way, they need to go far away for that.

I can win one fight vs a thief. Actually i have lets say 50/50 ratio. If you count win a fight when they use stealth to run away. Then they come back over and over, i can win again, maybe one more time, but later or early i am going to lose. After many tries i am going to lose one and that one is the dead for me, for the thief the dead is the shadow refuge or start spaming stealth. That is the diference.

urieldhynne.2743:

We are talking about thief right now.

And I say people here need to focus more on the main topic.
Because, as I see it, this thread (and God knows why I still read it) has turned into a “nerf thieves”, with hundreds of statements of people that should just lower their ego and accept the fact that they CANNOT kill a DECENT thief who does not want to die IN WvW.

First it started with “I am pro pvp player and I’m kittened that a thief won a 1v3 (because of stealth)”.
Then it became “Thief damage potential is too high, 15k burst every 3s wtf!”
And finally it turned into “Thieves resets fights because of stealth”.

Make up your minds, lads. If thieves get deleted you would still find something else to complain at. Most likely warriors, because they can win a 1v3, they can burst 15k easily if facing terrible players (of which these forums are full), and can easily disengage at will.

Also, any PU mesmer with traited 1200 blink can disengage really easily. Just chain 1 stealth with a blink in another direction and you’ll be ooc in no time.

Valentin.2073:

lol... its funny how these thieves telling me to l2p. a thief telling a ranger to l2p and i’m a CHAMPION HUNTER. i might have spent more time killing other players than most of these pve thieves.

Bla-bla-bla

You have made your Champ Hunter in the Zerk gear too and never met with d/p thieves at the sPVP? Or just bought this account, came to WvW and have reallized that you can’t play your Ranger?
Seems like second option.

while it has produced interesting queries, this thread has been all about bragging from the start. i won’t point fingers. let’s just say wvw does not give a S about achievements.

ANET made the game to cater “everyone”. Thief happens to be that profession for pr0z who can’t stand losing.

PS: Everyone else is just plebs who need to “l2p”.

Its pretty simple, be aware of your surrounds. You see a stealth class, don’t bother engaging. It’s not worthyour time to chasing after a thief or mesmer so just don’t engage them anymore and I run when I see one but because there is just no winning against them. Let them fight guards and skritts, in the mean time you can have fun fighting other classes.

I find it hilarious running a no-stealth build, to simply start running at a group of roamers who immediately start running the other way. It’s also funny when I kill said group of roamers, without the crutch of stealth, to get a party invite where I’m called a “no-skill perma-stealthing noob thief” by angry bads.

To whomever thinks thieves can’t survive without stealth…learn to play. We have blinds (the most outta any class), evades, and teleports. Fight any thief who uses all 3, you’ll find the survivability to be through the kitten roof. Fight any thief using those, Signet of Malice, and running apothecary, and he won’t die anytime soon. Thieves can be terrifyingly survivable outside of stealth if specced for it. I’ve survived running through enemy ZERGS thanks to my apothecary build.

RyuDragnier.9476:

To whomever thinks thieves can’t survive without stealth…learn to play. We have blinds (the most outta any class), evades, and teleports. Fight any thief who uses all 3, you’ll find the survivability to be through the kitten roof. Fight any thief using those, Signet of Malice, and running apothecary, and he won’t die anytime soon. Thieves can be terrifyingly survivable outside of stealth if specced for it. I’ve survived running through enemy ZERGS thanks to my apothecary build.

Kept a small 17-man zerg occupied for over 10 minutes at south camp in our BL one time with my apothecary death blossom build – killed 12, the zerg hardly tried rezzing their allies.

urieldhynne.2743:

You don’t understand that 1vx and “how counter need to work” i suggest to read the analysis Aegael.6938 did in page 2.

I understand the OP wants to give inexperienced players a class based counter against good players on thieves so they can ‘rightfully’ down this thief. In my opinion that should never happen.

The exploiting is using paper walls and gates with dagger 5 to stay invis and using rabbits should not be allowed.

Viking Jorun.5413:

RyuDragnier.9476:

To whomever thinks thieves can’t survive without stealth…learn to play. We have blinds (the most outta any class), evades, and teleports. Fight any thief who uses all 3, you’ll find the survivability to be through the kitten roof. Fight any thief using those, Signet of Malice, and running apothecary, and he won’t die anytime soon. Thieves can be terrifyingly survivable outside of stealth if specced for it. I’ve survived running through enemy ZERGS thanks to my apothecary build.

Kept a small 17-man zerg occupied for over 10 minutes at south camp in our BL one time with my apothecary death blossom build – killed 12, the zerg hardly tried rezzing their allies.

Must have been a bad zerg. A good zerg would have used AoE fields, pulls, knockdowns, etc all over you to prevent you from moving around at all. Those are the worst ones to fight, trust me. T_T

The mechanism of stealth make a class impossible to be balanced. It’s 0 or 1 game, stealth class can only be either OP or underdog.
There is NO game ever in MMO history which can balance class with stealth skills. Neither can Anet.
Then some developers of other games found an alternative way to balance the overall class balance by introducing anti-stealth classes, Anet actually did try a small step (give ranger a so-called anti stealth skill, but it’s just theoretically but not practically in game) , I am expecting ANet will do more in the future, at least this is the right direction.
Stealth doesn’t need to be nerfed, it works as intended, but it need a real counter — a real anti-stealth class/build which will counter stealth by all meaning but be countered by other classes w/o anti-stealth ability, that will make better overall balance.

A wild idea is to give ranger’s pet (or certain types of pet) anti-stealth ability.
In real life, animals have better instinct than human, a police dog/pig is used to detect things that human can not detect.

The mechanism of stealth make a class impossible to be balanced. It’s 0 or 1 game, stealth class can only be either OP or underdog.
There is NO game ever in MMO history which can balance class with stealth skills. Neither can Anet.
Then some developers of other games found an alternative way to balance the overall class balance by introducing anti-stealth classes, Anet actually did try a small step (give ranger a so-called anti stealth skill, but it’s just theoretically but not practically in game) , I am expecting ANet will do more in the future, at least this is the right direction.
Stealth doesn’t need to be nerfed, it works as intended, but it need a real counter — a real anti-stealth class/build which will counter stealth by all meaning but be countered by other classes w/o anti-stealth ability, that will make better overall balance.

Going into stealth the second time in a short(certain amount of) time, should give thiefs or mesmers a damage debuff. You stealth twice in a row? Ok you now have a XX less damage debuff. In return you will have certain advantages when in stealth, Cannot take damage or all conditionslost, something like that.

I play thief and for me biggest problem is ability to stack stealth duration, its absolutly imbalanced! Thief should have many opportunities to gain stealth but only on 3s duration (4s if trained) but no more, he must decide if he attack or pass.

aspirine.6852:

Going into stealth the second time in a short(certain amount of) time, should give thiefs or mesmers a damage debuff. You stealth twice in a row? Ok you now have a XX less damage debuff. In return you will have certain advantages when in stealth, Cannot take damage or all conditionslost, something like that.

I feel like that would only break it more.

Changing stealth itself is the wrong direction. If you buff it it make stealth OP, if you nerf it, it make stealth pointless, there is no intermediate stage in between. It has been PROVED by so many games.

As a thief, I find the ability to remain stealthed throughout a fight laughably broken. Anyone who actually wants a challenge feels the same way. Players who abuse stealth – anet’s words, not mine – clearly want easy game play and will defend it to the death.

The reason D/P is so prolific is because it is a low risk play style in a target rich environment. Virtually every other thief build requires a moderate amount of skill to survive with even using a toughened up build.

As I have said before the problem lies with Heartseeker in the same weapon set as Blinding Powder. Switching Death Blossom and Heartseeker would effectively “fix” the D/P issue most players have grown to hate.

Course two sigils in two handers are going to make a melee thief’s life more difficult.

It is the most broken mechanic in gw2. Honestly though Mesmers are a lot more annoying with this mechanic than the actual thief.

Straegen.2938:

The reason D/P is so prolific is because it is a low risk play style in a target rich environment. Virtually every other thief build requires a moderate amount of skill to survive with even with a toughened up build.

As I have said before the problem lies with Heartseeker in the same weapon set as Blinding Powder. Switching Death Blossom and Heartseeker would effectively “fix” the D/P issue most players have grown to hate.

Course two sigils in two handers are going to make a melee thief’s life more difficult.

Actually death blossom should be removed from D/D. A condi attack does not fit into a weaponset that also has the biggest burst.

style.6173:

Straegen.2938:

The reason D/P is so prolific is because it is a low risk play style in a target rich environment. Virtually every other thief build requires a moderate amount of skill to survive with even with a toughened up build.

As I have said before the problem lies with Heartseeker in the same weapon set as Blinding Powder. Switching Death Blossom and Heartseeker would effectively “fix” the D/P issue most players have grown to hate.

Course two sigils in two handers are going to make a melee thief’s life more difficult.

Actually death blossom should be removed from D/D. A condi attack does not fit into a weaponset that also has the biggest burst.

It’s a hybrid setup. Mainhand dagger is direct damage, offhand dagger is support.

RyuDragnier.9476:

style.6173:

Straegen.2938:

As I have said before the problem lies with Heartseeker in the same weapon set as Blinding Powder. Switching Death Blossom and Heartseeker would effectively “fix” the D/P issue most players have grown to hate.

Actually death blossom should be removed from D/D. A condi attack does not fit into a weaponset that also has the biggest burst.

It’s a hybrid setup. Mainhand dagger is direct damage, offhand dagger is support.

Most thieves never press the button for Death Blossom since we are initiative bound rather than timer bound. That skill only makes sense on a condition build and even then probably not that great for D/D. I wouldn’t mind if DB was switched out for something else preferably a utility skill with a blind or daze on it but D/D already seems fairly well balanced to me.

SilverWF.4789:

… shut up and try to play as thief if they are thinking it’s sooo easy.

Yeaah if more people will play this stupid kitten that will definitely help the situation.

/faceplam

Frigid.6027:

if you lost a fight 3v1, you should rethink your playstyle and not cry about the guy who collected bags. Zerker rangers have always been thief food.

Stealth is our condition removal and our way of surviving. Learn to fight it or wait a few years for anet to give us builds where we dont need stealth for everything.

Poppykitten to the extreme on your response.

Thieves do not need to stealth for everything. Hide and shadow is fine as a condition removal tool.

If someone wants to hear a real opinion from a thief… one that is unbiased and factual… Listen to me. Not someone who defends the wickedly overpowered stealth abilities.

I have two layouts of stealth. Weapon sets Pistol/Dagger Shortbow.

1) Hide in shadows and Shadow Refuge.
2) Shadow refuge and Black Powder (my heal skill is withdraw)

I know I can use cloak and dagger, but I do not. I like to be fair with people I am fighting. Anywhoooo.. My survivability is crazy good. I use the aoe poison/bleed shortbow skill plus torment (skale venom), and always keep initiative points available for my #5 skill to teleport.

I win almost every 1v1 (lost one two days ago to a crazy good necro) and I have won a number of 2v1/3v1… by using only two stealth skills.

The problem with stealth thieves, is they actually fight better against multiple people

This is because the thief controls the fight. The moment you have to wonder who will be next and you are at a disadvantage. 1v1 against a stealth thief… you know what is next 100% of the time and to whom. Makes the fight easier.

In stealth the thief builds energy for dodging. Then when they break stealth by attacking, they auto attack (thief dagger auto attack damage is higher than most activate damage abilities). They get a free hit or two due to reaction time. If there is more then one opponent, then time to react is longer (due to orientation and such).
Then dodge roll away from the crowd control which we know comes first, then heart seeker + stealth when the reveal is up. Rinse repeat.

Something here you should know. The stealth thief does not use auto targeting. They don’t even have to target the victim, just face. With the trait that provides 100% crit to the next attack out of stealth, they just need to face the victim, do insane damage, dodge roll through the victim while the victim turns to fight. Gotta remember that the moment they react, people try to use a stun or immobilize ability to get that thief. But due to evasion, that ability misses, which allows the thief to escape over and over.

Lastly… The best (or so people think) stealth thieves out there use macros which in itself is cheating. If you know the thief well, than it is easy to spot, but hard to prove.

So to summarize here. A stealth thief is just a cheap way to play for people with zero skills, and no desire to play fair. That is why I do not use one.

Straegen.2938:

RyuDragnier.9476:

style.6173:

Straegen.2938:

As I have said before the problem lies with Heartseeker in the same weapon set as Blinding Powder. Switching Death Blossom and Heartseeker would effectively “fix” the D/P issue most players have grown to hate.

Actually death blossom should be removed from D/D. A condi attack does not fit into a weaponset that also has the biggest burst.

It’s a hybrid setup. Mainhand dagger is direct damage, offhand dagger is support.

Most thieves never press the button for Death Blossom since we are initiative bound rather than timer bound. That skill only makes sense on a condition build and even then probably not that great for D/D. I wouldn’t mind if DB was switched out for something else preferably a utility skill with a blind or daze on it but D/D already seems fairly well balanced to me.

I’d like to see death blossom removed completely from D/D and instead add a new skill. At the same time, thieves should get a new weapon that would allow for melee condition attacks.

hihey.1075:

urieldhynne.2743:

We are talking about thief right now.

And I say people here need to focus more on the main topic.
Because, as I see it, this thread (and God knows why I still read it) has turned into a “nerf thieves”, with hundreds of statements of people that should just lower their ego and accept the fact that they CANNOT kill a DECENT thief who does not want to die IN WvW.

First it started with “I am pro pvp player and I’m kittened that a thief won a 1v3 (because of stealth)”.
Then it became “Thief damage potential is too high, 15k burst every 3s wtf!”
And finally it turned into “Thieves resets fights because of stealth”.

Make up your minds, lads. If thieves get deleted you would still find something else to complain at. Most likely warriors, because they can win a 1v3, they can burst 15k easily if facing terrible players (of which these forums are full), and can easily disengage at will.

Also, any PU mesmer with traited 1200 blink can disengage really easily. Just chain 1 stealth with a blink in another direction and you’ll be ooc in no time.

This is too funny. Remember. I use two and only two stealth abilities and I have yet to lose to a warrior. I have never lost to a ranger, but even the best ranger is almost guaranteed an easy kill for a thief who uses 1 stealth.

Back when I ran full zerk gear, my only stealth (withdraw made things more fun and hectic) in a fight was blinding powder. I killed them 100% of the time with just shadow shot and my crazy high crit%.

Really now…. Who should people believe. Thieves who use the stealth mechanic to the extreme and think it is fine to kill 3 people at a time, or a thief who refuses to abuse the system in order to make the fights as fair as possible and based upon skills only while winning 70% + of his 1v1 fights even when using only 1 stealth skill?

The only decent thieves are those who play with skill and not rely on cheap tactics. If stealth is changed then the good thieves will still play, but the cheap ones will move along to the next cheapest build.

Valentin.2073:

lol… its funny how these thieves telling me to l2p. a thief telling a ranger to l2p and i’m a CHAMPION HUNTER. i might have spent more time killing other players than most of these pve thieves.

Nice achievements ya got there. Unfortunately that Champion Hunter title you have only means you spent hours grinding spvp. That might show that you have a lot of pvp experience but sadly that does not equate to skill.

WvW is not the same playground that you are used to in spvp. Hardly anyone runs zerker out there (with the exception of a few thieves). Being good at any form of pvp you can understand that there are counter builds and everything is situational. You’ll have to change your spec to combat your new surroundings and situations. Your WvW build should not be the same as your spvp build.

Jitters.9401:

hihey.1075:

urieldhynne.2743:

We are talking about thief right now.

And I say people here need to focus more on the main topic.
Because, as I see it, this thread (and God knows why I still read it) has turned into a “nerf thieves”, with hundreds of statements of people that should just lower their ego and accept the fact that they CANNOT kill a DECENT thief who does not want to die IN WvW.

First it started with “I am pro pvp player and I’m kittened that a thief won a 1v3 (because of stealth)”.
Then it became “Thief damage potential is too high, 15k burst every 3s wtf!”
And finally it turned into “Thieves resets fights because of stealth”.

Make up your minds, lads. If thieves get deleted you would still find something else to complain at. Most likely warriors, because they can win a 1v3, they can burst 15k easily if facing terrible players (of which these forums are full), and can easily disengage at will.

Also, any PU mesmer with traited 1200 blink can disengage really easily. Just chain 1 stealth with a blink in another direction and you’ll be ooc in no time.

This is too funny. Remember. I use two and only two stealth abilities and I have yet to lose to a warrior. I have never lost to a ranger, but even the best ranger is almost guaranteed an easy kill for a thief who uses 1 stealth.

Back when I ran full zerk gear, my only stealth (withdraw made things more fun and hectic) in a fight was blinding powder. I killed them 100% of the time with just shadow shot and my crazy high crit%.

Really now…. Who should people believe. Thieves who use the stealth mechanic to the extreme and think it is fine to kill 3 people at a time, or a thief who refuses to abuse the system in order to make the fights as fair as possible and based upon skills only while winning 70% + of his 1v1 fights even when using only 1 stealth skill?

The only decent thieves are those who play with skill and not rely on cheap tactics. If stealth is changed then the good thieves will still play, but the cheap ones will move along to the next cheapest build.

A P/D thief that thinks he better than the rest of the thieves…

You do know P/D is a “cheese” weapon set? It’s almost as cheesy as D/P.

You probably think your kitten doesn’t smell.

MIrra.3604:

Jitters.9401:

hihey.1075:

urieldhynne.2743:

We are talking about thief right now.

And I say people here need to focus more on the main topic.
Because, as I see it, this thread (and God knows why I still read it) has turned into a “nerf thieves”, with hundreds of statements of people that should just lower their ego and accept the fact that they CANNOT kill a DECENT thief who does not want to die IN WvW.

First it started with “I am pro pvp player and I’m kittened that a thief won a 1v3 (because of stealth)”.
Then it became “Thief damage potential is too high, 15k burst every 3s wtf!”
And finally it turned into “Thieves resets fights because of stealth”.

Make up your minds, lads. If thieves get deleted you would still find something else to complain at. Most likely warriors, because they can win a 1v3, they can burst 15k easily if facing terrible players (of which these forums are full), and can easily disengage at will.

Also, any PU mesmer with traited 1200 blink can disengage really easily. Just chain 1 stealth with a blink in another direction and you’ll be ooc in no time.

This is too funny. Remember. I use two and only two stealth abilities and I have yet to lose to a warrior. I have never lost to a ranger, but even the best ranger is almost guaranteed an easy kill for a thief who uses 1 stealth.

Back when I ran full zerk gear, my only stealth (withdraw made things more fun and hectic) in a fight was blinding powder. I killed them 100% of the time with just shadow shot and my crazy high crit%.

Really now…. Who should people believe. Thieves who use the stealth mechanic to the extreme and think it is fine to kill 3 people at a time, or a thief who refuses to abuse the system in order to make the fights as fair as possible and based upon skills only while winning 70% + of his 1v1 fights even when using only 1 stealth skill?

The only decent thieves are those who play with skill and not rely on cheap tactics. If stealth is changed then the good thieves will still play, but the cheap ones will move along to the next cheapest build.

A P/D thief that thinks he better than the rest of the thieves…

You do know P/D is a “cheese” weapon set? It’s almost as cheesy as D/P.

You probably think your kitten doesn’t smell.

Why is his spec cheese, yet perma stealth abuse isn’t?

MIrra.3604:

Jitters.9401:

hihey.1075:

urieldhynne.2743:

We are talking about thief right now.

And I say people here need to focus more on the main topic.
Because, as I see it, this thread (and God knows why I still read it) has turned into a “nerf thieves”, with hundreds of statements of people that should just lower their ego and accept the fact that they CANNOT kill a DECENT thief who does not want to die IN WvW.

First it started with “I am pro pvp player and I’m kittened that a thief won a 1v3 (because of stealth)”.
Then it became “Thief damage potential is too high, 15k burst every 3s wtf!”
And finally it turned into “Thieves resets fights because of stealth”.

Make up your minds, lads. If thieves get deleted you would still find something else to complain at. Most likely warriors, because they can win a 1v3, they can burst 15k easily if facing terrible players (of which these forums are full), and can easily disengage at will.

Also, any PU mesmer with traited 1200 blink can disengage really easily. Just chain 1 stealth with a blink in another direction and you’ll be ooc in no time.

This is too funny. Remember. I use two and only two stealth abilities and I have yet to lose to a warrior. I have never lost to a ranger, but even the best ranger is almost guaranteed an easy kill for a thief who uses 1 stealth.

Back when I ran full zerk gear, my only stealth (withdraw made things more fun and hectic) in a fight was blinding powder. I killed them 100% of the time with just shadow shot and my crazy high crit%.

Really now…. Who should people believe. Thieves who use the stealth mechanic to the extreme and think it is fine to kill 3 people at a time, or a thief who refuses to abuse the system in order to make the fights as fair as possible and based upon skills only while winning 70% + of his 1v1 fights even when using only 1 stealth skill?

The only decent thieves are those who play with skill and not rely on cheap tactics. If stealth is changed then the good thieves will still play, but the cheap ones will move along to the next cheapest build.

A P/D thief that thinks he better than the rest of the thieves…

You do know P/D is a “cheese” weapon set? It’s almost as cheesy as D/P.

You probably think your kitten doesn’t smell.

Oh please, P/D is not cheese. The only thing that could be considered cheese is CnD, and it’s VERY easy to counter since the thief has to be in close range to hit you, so AoE’s on top of yourself stops the spam because they’ll have to take damage to get close enough to abuse it. Black Powder and Heartseeker combo on D/P however, can be done at any range, meaning there’s no way to counter it effectively.

[/quote]

A P/D thief that thinks he better than the rest of the thieves…

You do know P/D is a “cheese” weapon set? It’s almost as cheesy as D/P.

You probably think your kitten doesn’t smell. [/quote]
Why is his spec cheese, yet perma stealth abuse isn’t?
[/quote]

It is a week tactic to grasp for straws no matter how lame they are, in order to try and defend himself.

What I find funny is at no point in time did I even suggest I was better than any other thief. What my message says is that us thieves in general are stronger then other classes (remember I pointed out that our dagger auto attacks do more damage then many activated abilities with cool downs), even when we do not use something terribly overpowered as stealth.

P/D…. I use only two skills… My auto attack skill and my #3 ability which allows me to dagger hit then pop backwards for a pistol shot. That is the skill I use on stealth thieves to kill them. For WvW, I primarily use shortbow, which is super fun and needs actual skill.

You know I can do this all day… Show how a stealth thief build is so far op that there should be changes.

I would get rid of blackpowder/HS stealthing. That way there are no more less then mediocre skilled thieves who think they are the coolest thing since sliced bread for no reason other then they play an op build.

style.6173:

Straegen.2938:

RyuDragnier.9476:

style.6173:

Straegen.2938:

As I have said before the problem lies with Heartseeker in the same weapon set as Blinding Powder. Switching Death Blossom and Heartseeker would effectively “fix” the D/P issue most players have grown to hate.

Actually death blossom should be removed from D/D. A condi attack does not fit into a weaponset that also has the biggest burst.

It’s a hybrid setup. Mainhand dagger is direct damage, offhand dagger is support.

Most thieves never press the button for Death Blossom since we are initiative bound rather than timer bound. That skill only makes sense on a condition build and even then probably not that great for D/D. I wouldn’t mind if DB was switched out for something else preferably a utility skill with a blind or daze on it but D/D already seems fairly well balanced to me.

I’d like to see death blossom removed completely from D/D and instead add a new skill. At the same time, thieves should get a new weapon that would allow for melee condition attacks.

It rules for pve. That’s about it.

The only issue I see with stealth in WvW is the “I will stay stealthed and alive so I can rez the dead mesmer who will portal in our zerg” cheese. Spending 15 minutes with 8 other people playing whack a mole in SM is just dumb.

Jitters.9401:

zip

So, you say you survive the current condition meta with only 2 condition removal skills (if traited)? One at 40 sec CD and the other at 60? Cool story bro.

That said I believe that the D/P set needs to brought down a bit. The blind finisher at 5 is not needed.

Kanenas.4906:

Jitters.9401:

zip

So, you say you survive the current condition meta with only 2 condition removal skills (if traited)? One at 40 sec CD and the other at 60? Cool story bro.

That said I believe that the D/P set needs to brought down a bit. The blind finisher at 5 is not needed.

You need to not just l2p, but maybe a l2read as well. I primarily shortbow.

But seriously..

1)Just because you cannot understand how to play a style does not mean it is not viable. It means you need to l2p.

2) You have no idea what traits I use or my play style yet you make weak comments. I on the other hand know fully well your stealth play style and say it is op.

Smoooosh goes your post.

Thank You. Come Again.

The condition point is valid. Any thief that roams at least in the mid-tiers knows all to well what it is like to be stacked up with conditions and watch them chew away a health bar with no way to remove them for several more seconds.

“I have two layouts of stealth. Weapon sets Pistol/Dagger Shortbow.

1) Hide in shadows and Shadow Refuge.
2) Shadow refuge and Black Powder (my heal skill is withdraw)

I know I can use cloak and dagger, but I do not. …"

You wrote it no?

As I said you use only 2 condition removal skills (if traited)? One at 40 sec CD (Black Powder) and the other at 60(Shadow Refuge).

Could you please tell me how you remove conditions? With P/D and shortbow?
And do not say Pain Response, please. I wait some serious arguments from you.