Guild Wars 2

UrMom.4205:

In a perfect work I would like to see t2 de-stack a tad to create a t2-4 spread. That would give us 9…FREAKING NINE servers that could all be interchanged. That would lead to different matchups almost every week.

Couple things on this. One, as Visirale.6097 stated, the populations of T3-4 are actually fairly similar to that of FA and SoS in almost all TZs, exceptions probably being FA EU and SoS OCX. Other than that, the populations of T3-4 are relatively similar to T2’s, so there really isn’t any “de-stacking necessary”. Two of SoS’ OCX guilds are planning on leaving to T1, so you might consider that destacking, but their OCX is 95% pugs these days anyways. The difference is the skill gap.

Now, I’m not being an elitist prick in saying this, it’s generally accepted that there’s a skill gap. That’s the issue. T2 pugs are generally more experienced/skilled than those below, and our guilds tend to be fight-oriented. But here’s the thing. The reason it’s there is indeed because of the gap in glicko. I’m all for some minor match variation, as long as there’s fights to be had. You may think that there’s fights to be had in T4-T5, but from what I hear it’s too much PPT and tower hugging and not enough open field or GvG opportunity.

So actually having too much match variation would be detrimental to a “fight”/ GvG tier, as it relies upon having consistent people to fight against. If you want to fight X guilds on X server and then you roll Z server who has some but not many, you’ll get bored. Yes, having the same matchup might get a bit stale sometimes. But in those epicly amazing fights? Definitely not stale. GvGs themselves are rarely stale, and I’ve only been in a handful myself.

In any case, I, and this thread in general, have digressed from the main points of the OP. It seems from the consensus of YB posters that they aren’t really going to welcome guilds that don’t work with the YB community to improve the PPT game. Fair enough. At this point, then, I would not recommend for guilds to transfer to YB for a shot at T2 fights and GvGing. For one, their stability in T2 is unbeknownst to us thus far. They may drop down in 2 weeks. Secondly, unless you want to focus on PPT, I don’t know that they will be your fit.

Instead, I’d recommend waiting a bit longer for another T3 server to rise to T2 to go there. Or go to CD to bring them up. As others have stated, I still believe that CD is the best candidate for T2. Their play style and mentality runs along the same lines as ours. I won’t speak for CD or attempt to guide their recruitment (oh wait, I already did ), but they seem to want a shot at T2 and I think they’d be a blast to have up here.

T2 is still going strong in terms of fights, but we’d love to have an active 3rd server in the mix that fights and plays around. I was dreaming that we’d have at least one non-Mag matchup during the season after ANet said no repeat matchups (LIES ANET LIES!), but nay, the RNG god of the season denies us. Looking forward to a fresh face, even if that face is metaphorically that of a porcupine made of ACs.

YB’s going to stay in T2 for a while – the population influx and extra guilds they’ve inherited from Maguuma will even make it seem like business as usual.

Sure, their population is going to drop after the season, but so will everyone else’s. It’s not just the appearance of a few PvE’ers that makes a server capable of focussing DB down below NSP, it’s a full-on bandwagon.

Ben K.6238:

YB’s going to stay in T2 for a while – the population influx and extra guilds they’ve inherited from Maguuma will even make it seem like business as usual.

Sure, their population is going to drop after the season, but so will everyone else’s. It’s not just the appearance of a few PvE’ers that makes a server capable of focussing DB down below NSP, it’s a full-on bandwagon.

Actually, FA’s population will go up. Most of our fairweathers have been absent from WvW until the T1 MEGABLOBS are over. Which is fine because our guild group pugs and veterans have been doing just fine (including zerg busting JQ hard from EU til PST, da kitten?). I think YB will be in T2 for about 3, maybe 4 weeks, and then they’ll drop.

Ben K.6238:

YB’s going to stay in T2 for a while – the population influx and extra guilds they’ve inherited from Maguuma will even make it seem like business as usual.

Sure, their population is going to drop after the season, but so will everyone else’s. It’s not just the appearance of a few PvE’ers that makes a server capable of focussing DB down below NSP, it’s a full-on bandwagon.

Not really. I don’t recall any guilds coming to YB from Mag, only a handful of individual players transferred (maybe around 10-15). VLK went to CD, ERP went to DB IIRC. There’s a reason why DB became full immediately after Mag started bleeding. So, “bandwagoners” went to the wrong server lol

Also, don’t tell me that most players from Mag came to YB knowing very well how we play (They call us a specific name siege mo…..). They probably went to DB and CD in hope of destroying us.

Regarding DB, from what I’ve seen they have LOTS of fairweathers (we do have too), but their proportion is much higher. They were leading us hours into reset, but then suddenly disappeared after facing some resistance and then it just went downhill for them this week.

/Edit: Its no secret that we overperform at season due to the overtime put in by our players. Happened in S1, S2 and also happening in S3, so nothing new.

While Guilds do tend to help a server, IMHO, they are simply over rated and not much different that a group of “pugs” (I hate that term). I have seen one if the big guilds fight, and to be honest, Not impressed. They lack imagination, and will gladly take there ball and go home if the fight is not to there advantage.

It boils down to the commander, and its amazing the amount of people you can gather, if as a commander you have fun. Golem zergs are a hoot.

tym.3791:

While Guilds do tend to help a server, IMHO, they are simply over rated and not much different that a group of “pugs” (I hate that term). I have seen one if the big guilds fight, and to be honest, Not impressed. They lack imagination, and will gladly take there ball and go home if the fight is not to there advantage.

It boils down to the commander, and its amazing the amount of people you can gather, if as a commander you have fun. Golem zergs are a hoot.

Friend, you really need to explore more of WvW. Guilds make WvW the strong, long-lasting community that it is. If they didn’t exist, WvW would have been dead 6 months after launch. And if you’re on FA (I think you are), you simply have not seen/participated in a proper guild group yet. Get on our highly active TS or forums and find a guild to join. It changes the experience 1 bajillion percent.

Introduce yourself and look for a guild. Go go go!

From my experience, it isn’t that higher tiers have higher skill level, it’s that each tier has it’s own meta. When two different metas meet, the results can be hilarious for one side and depressing for the other.

@basch – consenus of what 5 people – that isn’t very representative of a server.

For anyone to pay for a move before things settle out seems silly. For all we know right now, it won’t settle for awhile. Then bam – new season announced and all goes to hades again anyway…..

Only real set of facts is t2 will change (the players). It may settle into 3 servers or settle into 2+ 2 or 3 floaters – no one really knows.

Let’s hope all settle into fun – whatever their own definition of fun is.

And lastly – like everyone else – I speak what I think and not what a server thinks. Where does one apply for official server spokesman and where was my ballot?

Ben K.6238:

YB’s going to stay in T2 for a while – the population influx and extra guilds they’ve inherited from Maguuma will even make it seem like business as usual.

Sure, their population is going to drop after the season, but so will everyone else’s. It’s not just the appearance of a few PvE’ers that makes a server capable of focussing DB down below NSP, it’s a full-on bandwagon.

You have no idea the potential on our PVE’ers.
It has been the same on all the seasons, our PvE population during seasons is way higher than any T3 or below server, heck it goes so big we were able to beat FA twice during season 2, thought they will claim it was a double team with HoD, something that never occurred.
We didn’t got any transfers except for vT, and even them are just a few, less than 8 as far as I am aware.
Not sure where you get the mentality YB is a bandwagon when we have less than 15 people that transfered to the server before and during the season.
Now if you are talking between Season 2 and Season 3, then yes, we got a some people, TC, TUNE, FB (but they are gone now), and also some people returned to the server after being away for a long time.
Now if you count all those together, that is around 40 new/returning people on the server.
There are 2 reasons we can beat DB:
1) The give up way too easy, and they are full of fairweathers, so as quickly as their numbers go up, they go down just a fast with a little resistance and a couple of deaths.
2) Their average pug level is below our average pug level, which lucky for us, helps us keep our fairweathers around.

Omega Mccoy.4237:

Ben K.6238:

YB’s going to stay in T2 for a while – the population influx and extra guilds they’ve inherited from Maguuma will even make it seem like business as usual.

Sure, their population is going to drop after the season, but so will everyone else’s. It’s not just the appearance of a few PvE’ers that makes a server capable of focussing DB down below NSP, it’s a full-on bandwagon.

You have no idea the potential on our PVE’ers.
It has been the same on all the seasons, our PvE population during seasons is way higher than any T3 or below server, heck it goes so big we were able to beat FA twice during season 2, thought they will claim it was a double team with HoD, something that never occurred.
We didn’t got any transfers except for vT, and even them are just a few, less than 8 as far as I am aware.
Not sure where you get the mentality YB is a bandwagon when we have less than 15 people that transfered to the server before and during the season.
Now if you are talking between Season 2 and Season 3, then yes, we got a some people, TC, TUNE, FB (but they are gone now), and also some people returned to the server after being away for a long time.
Now if you count all those together, that is around 40 new/returning people on the server.
There are 2 reasons we can beat DB:
1) The give up way too easy, and they are full of fairweathers, so as quickly as their numbers go up, they go down just a fast with a little resistance and a couple of deaths.
2) Their average pug level is below our average pug level, which lucky for us, helps us keep our fairweathers around.

I guess he was just trolling. I checked his server and he is from SBI. Fortunately, our PvE’ers contribute A LOT during season to boost YB for a little. As someone from SBI should have known that our WvW population always increases during season since it happened in S1, S2 and is happening now as well.

If you sincerely believe rolling up to T2 will be healthy for T3 servers you are mistaken. The tolerance Maguuma had for bad matchups kept a lid on the boiling garbage soup that is T2 WvW.

IMO we shouldn’t be trying to make a “gvg tier.” A healthy server plays for a mix of fights and PPT. Too much fights and there’s tensions that divides the server and causes bad blood. And if a server goes stops caring about PPT, their PPT will go down and they’ll drop a tier. What happened to Maguuma was entirely predicatable, and it’ll happen again if another server takes a “we’re here for the fights, kitten the score” mentality to its logical conclusion.

Instead, try fostering a gvg scene in every tier. I know JQ has at least 2 guilds (QT and IX) that are down to gvg, TC has more, dunno about Blackgate but they must have at least one big as they are. T2 obviously has several, below that there are some on Crystal Desert, some on Devona’s Rest, some in Yak’s Bend.

Related to this: gvg guilds ought to PPT at least some. It’s how you’ll attract new people and let the wider WvW world know you exist and when they see you wiping people they get interested in learning how to play better.

Buffy.9246:

Chris.3290:

Buffy.9246:

Honestly this is stil SoS fault. Since FA doesn’t have t2 coverage during the night, Sos just steamrolls over every door/npc. Cd and db just have sea. Which in SoS cause are pst doing golem rushes on undefended keeps. The 3rd server has to have pst to survive.

The PST pushes were mostly NA college students home for summer break. You already saw the difference the first week of the season and you’ll see it again over the next few weeks. We’re still stronger than FA in PST, but being greater than next to nothing isn’t much to brag about. If YB and CD even have a modest PST population you’ll see our PST pushes completely grind down (unless they play for second) to a halt.

Our OCX casual pop will probably keep us in the lead, but it won’t be the pre-season blowouts of 100k+ every week. CD is far from a slouch and YB has their keeps locked down all night. Even our PvD trains will get bogged down in their stuff.

This could be a very positive change to T2 if people are willing to give it a chance.

Weren’t you the one who wanted FA/Sos to focus yb out of t2?

I’ve changed my mind, pending on YB’s performance. I already said in this thread that if they play to their negative stereotypes; then I’ll want it again.
They have potential to be much more than they are and what they have been. However, I don’t want to waste anyone’s time (on FA, SoS, or a server that is actually up for the challenge) if they don’t want it.

T3-T4 is well-balanced; we get that. If there was a magical way we could get Maguuma to rebuild; we’d be perfectly happy to let Silver League to it’s own thing in perpetuity.

However, playing for PPT outside of T1 is a fool’s errand. Sitting on siege all day? Just close the game down and play minesweeper, it’s more dynamic than that.

Besting an opponent with equal (or near to equal)numbers? That’s something special. That’s the kind of experience that drew me into online-gaming. Working constructively with a team and destructively against an enemy. Dropping Earthshaker onto a fleeing zerg, watching clusters drop when you drop necro-wells, strolling through a sea of red rings because your Guardians and eles are on top of things….that is awesome.

Sounds much better than running up to an abandoned tower, pressing “1” for 2 minutes, then getting a champ bag with 1 green and two crappy blue weapons.

That can be good at times too, but it’s stale if that’s all there is. Without the dynamic fights, it’s dull.

GvG is like an all star game mode where the best players/fighters come for the slam dunk highlight reel contest. While wvw is like everything, the whole game. Strategy, organization, open field, ppt kitten, offense, defense, etc. It’s the free throws, the 3 pointers, the in the paint battles, the dunks also. Neglecting any of the little game modes can screw a server over in matchup. Continuously screwing yourself over will end up in a dead team dead server. T2 marketed themselves really well and took advantage of that for recruiting. However the shift now seems to be looking for “WvW guilds” not necessarily just gvg guilds anymore.

The demands for the wvw guild has now extended to gvg and they will need to adapt and perform in both ways or they’ll just keep being free agents and server hopping.

Chris.3290:

T3-T4 is well-balanced; we get that. If there was a magical way we could get Maguuma to rebuild; we’d be perfectly happy to let Silver League to it’s own thing in perpetuity.

However, playing for PPT outside of T1 is a fool’s errand. Sitting on siege all day? Just close the game down and play minesweeper, it’s more dynamic than that.

Besting an opponent with equal (or near to equal)numbers? That’s something special. That’s the kind of experience that drew me into online-gaming. Working constructively with a team and destructively against an enemy. Dropping Earthshaker onto a fleeing zerg, watching clusters drop when you drop necro-wells, strolling through a sea of red rings because your Guardians and eles are on top of things….that is awesome.

Sounds much better than running up to an abandoned tower, pressing “1” for 2 minutes, then getting a champ bag with 1 green and two crappy blue weapons.

That can be good at times too, but it’s stale if that’s all there is. Without the dynamic fights, it’s dull.

Perhaps you can take to attacking the keeps/towers during their defended prime times? that’s a big challenge that there are few commanders take. that takes some skill to manage supplies, dividing your forces, working with other teams, etc. PvD is a whole different level of skill. Like if I’m gonna finish my ice cream before the door goes down level.

shiri.4257:

GvG is like an all star game mode where the best players/fighters come for the slam dunk highlight reel contest.

The all star game is far and away the least competitive aspect of most professional sports leagues. I’m not sure that’s a real great comparison.

shiri.4257:

Chris.3290:

T3-T4 is well-balanced; we get that. If there was a magical way we could get Maguuma to rebuild; we’d be perfectly happy to let Silver League to it’s own thing in perpetuity.

However, playing for PPT outside of T1 is a fool’s errand. Sitting on siege all day? Just close the game down and play minesweeper, it’s more dynamic than that.

Besting an opponent with equal (or near to equal)numbers? That’s something special. That’s the kind of experience that drew me into online-gaming. Working constructively with a team and destructively against an enemy. Dropping Earthshaker onto a fleeing zerg, watching clusters drop when you drop necro-wells, strolling through a sea of red rings because your Guardians and eles are on top of things….that is awesome.

Sounds much better than running up to an abandoned tower, pressing “1” for 2 minutes, then getting a champ bag with 1 green and two crappy blue weapons.

That can be good at times too, but it’s stale if that’s all there is. Without the dynamic fights, it’s dull.

Perhaps you can take to attacking the keeps/towers during their defended prime times? that’s a big challenge that there are few commanders take. that takes some skill to manage supplies, dividing your forces, working with other teams, etc. PvD is a whole different level of skill. Like if I’m gonna finish my ice cream before the door goes down level.

Once in a long while, a prolonged siege is worth it. I’ve seen some pretty amazing ones (usually in Bay) where it goes on and you feel achievement when it’s done.

What isn’t rewarding, is running up to T3 Hills, taking out the mortars, running to NE camp, building trebs, and everyone sitting on their hands for 15 minutes while the trebs take down the outerwall, getting more supply, running into Hills, getting onto the wall, building a ballista to take out the ACs, then building catas, and waiting another 10 minutes sitting in that keep to take down the inner walls, and then all the defenders WP out.
Weee, what fun.

I really enjoyed resource management in Starcraft back in the 90’s; my tastes have matured somewhat in the many years since.

Asquared.4091:

shiri.4257:

GvG is like an all star game mode where the best players/fighters come for the slam dunk highlight reel contest.

The all star game is far and away the least competitive aspect of most professional sports leagues. I’m not sure that’s a real great comparison.

What he means is that it seems a little elitist. It really isn’t. Even the biggest trolls (think ARK) respect GvGs and the fact that you are willing to try it out. It’s truly different than open-field fighting and I recommend trying it once in a while.

Chris.3290:

I’ve changed my mind, pending on YB’s performance. I already said in this thread that if they play to their negative stereotypes; then I’ll want it again.
They have potential to be much more than they are and what they have been. However, I don’t want to waste anyone’s time (on FA, SoS, or a server that is actually up for the challenge) if they don’t want it.

Translation: I’m up for a doubleteam vs YB, unless they play the way I want.

Mighty mature of you. Please don’t tell us how we should enjoy the game. We’re able to determine that for ourselves.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Chris.3290:

I’ve changed my mind, pending on YB’s performance. I already said in this thread that if they play to their negative stereotypes; then I’ll want it again.
They have potential to be much more than they are and what they have been. However, I don’t want to waste anyone’s time (on FA, SoS, or a server that is actually up for the challenge) if they don’t want it.

Translation: I’m up for a doubleteam vs YB, unless they play the way I want.

Mighty mature of you. Please don’t tell us how we should enjoy the game. We’re able to determine that for ourselves.

Meh just ignore chris. He likes to think he is the spokesman for SoS server when Sos doesn’t even respect him. Chris is just a karma train commander, he said so himself.

Saw a comment about how YB and HOD didn’t double up on FA during the previous tourney. I was there. They did. Vivid memories of being wiped out of OW by HOD and then leaving. Many times during many instances that happened. Pleasant memories of YB sieging up our garrison with trebs, acs and even golems, while they had lost everything on EB. Hours of fighting on the west side inner with all that being on the dome. We were more than waiting on YB after the tourney. We laid a 180k plus on them. HOD met the same faith. I would not say we wont double up YB. If SOS asks me for siege on YB BL, they will get it. I look forward to seeing YB again. Really look forward. Gotta love WvW.

Ranger Emeritus.2905:

Saw a comment about how YB and HOD didn’t double up on FA during the previous tourney. I was there. They did. Vivid memories of being wiped out of OW by HOD and then leaving. Many times during many instances that happened. Pleasant memories of YB sieging up our garrison with trebs, acs and even golems, while they had lost everything on EB. Hours of fighting on the west side inner with all that being on the dome. We were more than waiting on YB after the tourney. We laid a 180k plus on them. HOD met the same faith. I would not say we wont double up YB. If SOS asks me for siege on YB BL, they will get it. I look forward to seeing YB again. Really look forward. Gotta love WvW.

Meh, what happened happened. Too long ago to care. I’m just tired of 1v1 FA vs TC/JQ/SoS. Mag is basically absent from the match-up. Don’t get me wrong, FA is fairing fine through all the focused blobs on us since FA is beastly stable and its vets rock solid. Plus, the zerg busting is real. But the fun of having 1v1v1 is missed. We’re getting too used to losing our entire BL and EB between 2-3:30 a.m. EST. I think the first time I see we still have Gari WP at least the morning after reset, I will go into shock.

I know this will close that discussion but it has to be said. If you want a meh reaction you have the perfect karma train member or cmdr. If you want someone who has a bit of passion for the game you find the scouts , the roamers, the leaders , who put in long hours, and at times, not gaining one level. The guys who make dozens of runs an hour to camps to build siege, repair etc. Those are the folks who are my brothers in WvW. Not the meh ones. Go back to EOTM.

Ranger Emeritus.2905:

I know this will close that discussion but it has to be said. If you want a meh reaction you have the perfect karma train member or cmdr. If you want someone who has a bit of passion for the game you find the scouts , the roamers, the leaders , who put in long hours, and at times, not gaining one level. The guys who make dozens of runs an hour to camps to build siege, repair etc. Those are the folks who are my brothers in WvW. Not the meh ones. Go back to EOTM.

Something tells me you’re not much part of the FA community. I’ll tell what I told that tym guy before. Go check out our very active forum and become part of it. You’ll find me there too.

Yougottawanna.7420:

A healthy server plays for a mix of fights and PPT.

I’m not surprised this comment comes from an FA player. This is one of the “secrets” behind FA’s stability. Call it “old school T2”.

Basch.1347:

Ranger Emeritus.2905:

I know this will close that discussion but it has to be said. If you want a meh reaction you have the perfect karma train member or cmdr. If you want someone who has a bit of passion for the game you find the scouts , the roamers, the leaders , who put in long hours, and at times, not gaining one level. The guys who make dozens of runs an hour to camps to build siege, repair etc. Those are the folks who are my brothers in WvW. Not the meh ones. Go back to EOTM.

Something tells me you’re not much part of the FA community. I’ll tell what I told that tym guy before. Go check out our very active forum and become part of it. You’ll find me there too.

I didn’t get that reaction either. The meh was concerning a match in t2 not roles people play and enjoy in wvw. I don’t see how that leap was made myself, but meh.

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Chris.3290:

I’ve changed my mind, pending on YB’s performance. I already said in this thread that if they play to their negative stereotypes; then I’ll want it again.
They have potential to be much more than they are and what they have been. However, I don’t want to waste anyone’s time (on FA, SoS, or a server that is actually up for the challenge) if they don’t want it.

Translation: I’m up for a doubleteam vs YB, unless they play the way I want.

Mighty mature of you. Please don’t tell us how we should enjoy the game. We’re able to determine that for ourselves.

I’m just being clear. YB is welcome to play however they want but no one currently in T2 wants a server that substitutes siege for skill 24/7. People will hate it and one of two things will happen: either we get sick of it and 2v1 the offender, or it becomes so nauseating that both servers implode and YB moves permanently into Gold League then T1 will take turns violating you.

Looks like we have nothing to worry since Crystal Dragon Desertbrand is fighting YB tonight, so Mag may be stuck in gold for another week after the tournament ends.

Chris.3290:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Chris.3290:

I’ve changed my mind, pending on YB’s performance. I already said in this thread that if they play to their negative stereotypes; then I’ll want it again.
They have potential to be much more than they are and what they have been. However, I don’t want to waste anyone’s time (on FA, SoS, or a server that is actually up for the challenge) if they don’t want it.

Translation: I’m up for a doubleteam vs YB, unless they play the way I want.

Mighty mature of you. Please don’t tell us how we should enjoy the game. We’re able to determine that for ourselves.

I’m just being clear. YB is welcome to play however they want but no one currently in T2 wants a server that substitutes siege for skill 24/7. People will hate it and one of two things will happen: either we get sick of it and 2v1 the offender, or it becomes so nauseating that both servers implode and YB moves permanently into Gold League then T1 will take turns violating you.

Just because you don’t like seige doesn’t mean they can’t use it…t2 is a karma train tier because of your server. Yb will put a stop to that.

Chris.3290:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Chris.3290:

I’ve changed my mind, pending on YB’s performance. I already said in this thread that if they play to their negative stereotypes; then I’ll want it again.
They have potential to be much more than they are and what they have been. However, I don’t want to waste anyone’s time (on FA, SoS, or a server that is actually up for the challenge) if they don’t want it.

Translation: I’m up for a doubleteam vs YB, unless they play the way I want.

Mighty mature of you. Please don’t tell us how we should enjoy the game. We’re able to determine that for ourselves.

I’m just being clear. YB is welcome to play however they want but no one currently in T2 wants a server that substitutes siege for skill 24/7. People will hate it and one of two things will happen: either we get sick of it and 2v1 the offender, or it becomes so nauseating that both servers implode and YB moves permanently into Gold League then T1 will take turns violating you.

@chris
You clearly know nothing if you think all of YB just sits on siege 24/7. Keep guards might, but that is only a handful of people at each keep. Even then they are more apt to patrol n-s-e-w etc….

And if you think cd-nsp etc… don’t siege and blob, you haven’t seen them either….

That said,
It is obvious though that an arena for GVG that guilds from any server – even their own – would fit the bill for many people. They could even monetize it with entrance tickets or arena passes…..

Liston.9708:

@chris
You clearly know nothing if you think all of YB just sits on siege 24/7. Keep guards might, but that is only a handful of people at each keep. Even then they are more apt to patrol n-s-e-w etc….

And if you think cd-nsp etc… don’t siege and blob, you haven’t seen them either….

That said,
It is obvious though that an arena for GVG that guilds from any server – even their own – would fit the bill for many people. They could even monetize it with entrance tickets or arena passes…..

That’s fine, both SoS and FA do it too.

Notice I originally said “playing to stereotypes”; meaning there is a negative “narrative” that YB does nothing but bunker, won’t fight without siege (even in open-field), and so on.

I said I’ve changed my mind on the focusing of YB because I think that A) That we should see how you really play in this situation and B) focusing YB doesn’t solve any problems.

So if the “narrative” has substance to it, I expect a negative reaction. If it’s just claptrap from people who hate a server that tries not to give towers/keeps away for free; then there is no problem.

Buffy.9246:

Chris.3290:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Chris.3290:

I’ve changed my mind, pending on YB’s performance. I already said in this thread that if they play to their negative stereotypes; then I’ll want it again.
They have potential to be much more than they are and what they have been. However, I don’t want to waste anyone’s time (on FA, SoS, or a server that is actually up for the challenge) if they don’t want it.

Translation: I’m up for a doubleteam vs YB, unless they play the way I want.

Mighty mature of you. Please don’t tell us how we should enjoy the game. We’re able to determine that for ourselves.

I’m just being clear. YB is welcome to play however they want but no one currently in T2 wants a server that substitutes siege for skill 24/7. People will hate it and one of two things will happen: either we get sick of it and 2v1 the offender, or it becomes so nauseating that both servers implode and YB moves permanently into Gold League then T1 will take turns violating you.

Just because you don’t like seige doesn’t mean they can’t use it…t2 is a karma train tier because of your server. Yb will put a stop to that.

So we’ll only be able to K-Train FA possessions. I think you just said that your server is going to T3. K-Thxbai

Chris.3290:

Buffy.9246:

Chris.3290:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Chris.3290:

I’ve changed my mind, pending on YB’s performance. I already said in this thread that if they play to their negative stereotypes; then I’ll want it again.
They have potential to be much more than they are and what they have been. However, I don’t want to waste anyone’s time (on FA, SoS, or a server that is actually up for the challenge) if they don’t want it.

Translation: I’m up for a doubleteam vs YB, unless they play the way I want.

Mighty mature of you. Please don’t tell us how we should enjoy the game. We’re able to determine that for ourselves.

I’m just being clear. YB is welcome to play however they want but no one currently in T2 wants a server that substitutes siege for skill 24/7. People will hate it and one of two things will happen: either we get sick of it and 2v1 the offender, or it becomes so nauseating that both servers implode and YB moves permanently into Gold League then T1 will take turns violating you.

Just because you don’t like seige doesn’t mean they can’t use it…t2 is a karma train tier because of your server. Yb will put a stop to that.

So we’ll only be able to K-Train FA possessions. I think you just said that your server is going to T3. K-Thxbai

Your delusional…FA stops ur k trains easy,mag doesn’t stop u.

Buffy.9246:

Chris.3290:

Buffy.9246:

Chris.3290:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Chris.3290:

I’ve changed my mind, pending on YB’s performance. I already said in this thread that if they play to their negative stereotypes; then I’ll want it again.
They have potential to be much more than they are and what they have been. However, I don’t want to waste anyone’s time (on FA, SoS, or a server that is actually up for the challenge) if they don’t want it.

Translation: I’m up for a doubleteam vs YB, unless they play the way I want.

Mighty mature of you. Please don’t tell us how we should enjoy the game. We’re able to determine that for ourselves.

I’m just being clear. YB is welcome to play however they want but no one currently in T2 wants a server that substitutes siege for skill 24/7. People will hate it and one of two things will happen: either we get sick of it and 2v1 the offender, or it becomes so nauseating that both servers implode and YB moves permanently into Gold League then T1 will take turns violating you.

Just because you don’t like seige doesn’t mean they can’t use it…t2 is a karma train tier because of your server. Yb will put a stop to that.

So we’ll only be able to K-Train FA possessions. I think you just said that your server is going to T3. K-Thxbai

Your delusional…FA stops ur k trains easy,mag doesn’t stop u.

I just logged off after we waltzed into all your keeps.

After tonight….Come on in YB, the water is fine. Play however you want and feel welcome. After seeing a 60 man FA blob run into a tower to fight under AC fire I don’t think YB will be changing things much no matter how they play.

60-man? Pets and minions don’t count.

Chris.3290:

Buffy.9246:

Chris.3290:

Buffy.9246:

Chris.3290:

Pretty Pixie.8603:

Chris.3290:

I’ve changed my mind, pending on YB’s performance. I already said in this thread that if they play to their negative stereotypes; then I’ll want it again.
They have potential to be much more than they are and what they have been. However, I don’t want to waste anyone’s time (on FA, SoS, or a server that is actually up for the challenge) if they don’t want it.

Translation: I’m up for a doubleteam vs YB, unless they play the way I want.

Mighty mature of you. Please don’t tell us how we should enjoy the game. We’re able to determine that for ourselves.

I’m just being clear. YB is welcome to play however they want but no one currently in T2 wants a server that substitutes siege for skill 24/7. People will hate it and one of two things will happen: either we get sick of it and 2v1 the offender, or it becomes so nauseating that both servers implode and YB moves permanently into Gold League then T1 will take turns violating you.

Just because you don’t like seige doesn’t mean they can’t use it…t2 is a karma train tier because of your server. Yb will put a stop to that.

So we’ll only be able to K-Train FA possessions. I think you just said that your server is going to T3. K-Thxbai

Your delusional…FA stops ur k trains easy,mag doesn’t stop u.

I just logged off after we waltzed into all your keeps.

After tonight….Come on in YB, the water is fine. Play however you want and feel welcome. After seeing a 60 man FA blob run into a tower to fight under AC fire I don’t think YB will be changing things much no matter how they play.

Yeah “60 man blob” lol. I bet this was during SoS pst time where no FA is on. God this guy is all talk.

FA doesn’t have any West Coast NA? Or are you all talkin about middle of the Pacific Ocean time?

FA does have late night PST NA, which is after midnight PST. Well, very little.

And let’s be honest, on most servers, it is a dead zone.

Johje Holan.4607:

FA doesn’t have any West Coast NA? Or are you all talkin about middle of the Pacific Ocean time?

FA slows down after 9pm PST and usually is a wasteland after 11pm. Their South American guilds are EST or even 1-2 hours ahead of that so they roar I to NA prime, but most of their guild drivers are East Coast or something because the drop off is always sharp.

It’s like some said before, other than some differences in coverage (SoS in OCX and FA in EU) I think most T3-T4 servers can roll with us pretty well in T2

Chris.3290:

Johje Holan.4607:

FA doesn’t have any West Coast NA? Or are you all talkin about middle of the Pacific Ocean time?

FA slows down after 9pm PST and usually is a wasteland after 11:30/12 pm. Their South American guilds are EST or even 1-2 hours ahead of that so they roar I to NA prime, but most of their guild drivers are East Coast or something because the drop off is always sharp.

It’s like some said before, other than some differences in coverage (SoS in OCX and FA in EU) I think most T3-T4 servers can roll with us pretty well in T2

3 a.m. EST is when the last of our EST logs, and most PST don’t stay on much later than that because the SoS ktrain blob is generally starting to do its kitten then. FA PST would rather fight alongside fellow FA than defend doors.

NA primetime is pretty intense though, around 9 pm EST until 11 pm EST. Every weekend for the last few weeks, it’s all been queued up for the entirety of the time or at least on the brink of being so, and the fights are great. Very competitive, and while the fights around 9-10 pm EST tend to be around 15v15, 20v20, or at most 25v25, by 10:30/11 EST, both groups gain pugs to offset their losses and they become 35v35 or 40v40, more or less.

I foresee YB having trouble against these guild groups that run 15-20, as they only have one non-pug group with these numbers (PAL) as far as I know, so it’ll usually be 15+5/10 pugs versus 25-30 YB pugblob. That rarely ends well for the pugblob. Guild groups can sit in AC fire and be just fine, as long as they don’t have another guild group fighting them simultaneously.

So unless PAL is around, and I’ve never seen them fight so I can’t say how much they’d threaten some of SoS/FA guild groups, YB will be hiding in their keeps.

Now, I could be entirely wrong, and I do quite hope so, but that’s my prediction.

ShadowStep.3640:

If GvG ever wants to reconstruct itself, it should do so on a lower tier server. That’s why GvG failed, because they choose to house it in tier 2 instead of tier 5 or 6. By housing GvG in a lower tier, you can GvG all you want without much pressure to ppt.

I think a few reasons favour a higher tier over a lower one.

1. T2 has a higher base population to recruit from than lower tier servers. GvG guilds will always need to find more players to replace people who will inevitably leave the game, or to help create new guilds.
2. A lot of GvG players are not exclusively GvG. You can’t GvG all the time and a lot of players don’t want to. If you have a guild of 25 WvW players who want to GvG, chances are a good number of them will also want to do general WvW fun. I suspect a lot of those players would prefer to do so on more populated servers with more enemies to fight (especially the more casual GvG guilds – imo any format is made or broken on it’s entry level, that’s where new players come from). Being interested in PPT and GvG are not mutually exclusive things.
3. Similar to the last point, trying to form up in a lower tier bracket could be risky. Influxes of players could cause instability in the tier and result in servers moving out of the bracket. T1 and T2 are relatively stable and predictable. It’s easy to prevent one from rising or falling, in lower tiers that might not be the case.

I don’t know why T2 would add pressure to PPT more than another tier. Maybe during WvW tournaments, but even there I don’t think T2 servers take them seriously because the population difference with the T1 competition is a joke (even within T2 the match ups are a forgone conclusion).

If GvG failed (did it?) I don’t think it’s because of the tier it’s in, I think it’s because it’s an unsupported PvP format born out of an inability for the WvW game mode to cater to the desires and play styles of the players. Unlike even sPvP, GvG doesn’t have matches 24/7, they are player organised (thus less efficient and accessible to most players) and the large number requirements can be hard to fill. It doesn’t help that it’s limited by server. The population of the format is incredibly small and access is very restrictive. Those hurdles will exist no matter what tier it’s in and they will always be difficult to overcome.

In many ways GvG is a symptom of WvW’s problems – a desire from players for organised (no rally bot pugs) open field fights (no tower turtling or siege nonsense) with competitive population balance (no skilless zerg wins design). Most PvP or sporting formats in the world strive for some kind of population balance (because it’s a core component of a fair competition) and WvW completely fails at that (because of this, WvW’s design encourages you to stack a server for easy wins, but less competitive PvP for your opposition). If the WvW team could dramatically lessen the WvW population imabalance issue (unlikely now that we are more than two years into the game’s life) and find a way to capture the things players love about GvG and integrate it into a map’s core design, I see that as the optimal resolution for this play style in GW2.

Shiren.9532:

ShadowStep.3640:

If GvG ever wants to reconstruct itself, it should do so on a lower tier server. That’s why GvG failed, because they choose to house it in tier 2 instead of tier 5 or 6. By housing GvG in a lower tier, you can GvG all you want without much pressure to ppt.

I think a few reasons favour a higher tier over a lower one.

1. T2 has a higher base population to recruit from than lower tier servers. GvG guilds will always need to find more players to replace people who will inevitably leave the game, or to help create new guilds.
2. A lot of GvG players are not exclusively GvG. You can’t GvG all the time and a lot of players don’t want to. If you have a guild of 25 WvW players who want to GvG, chances are a good number of them will also want to do general WvW fun. I suspect a lot of those players would prefer to do so on more populated servers with more enemies to fight (especially the more casual GvG guilds – imo any format is made or broken on it’s entry level, that’s where new players come from). Being interested in PPT and GvG are not mutually exclusive things.
3. Similar to the last point, trying to form up in a lower tier bracket could be risky. Influxes of players could cause instability in the tier and result in servers moving out of the bracket. T1 and T2 are relatively stable and predictable. It’s easy to prevent one from rising or falling, in lower tiers that might not be the case.

I don’t know why T2 would add pressure to PPT more than another tier. Maybe during WvW tournaments, but even there I don’t think T2 servers take them seriously because the population difference with the T1 competition is a joke (even within T2 the match ups are a forgone conclusion).

If GvG failed (did it?) I don’t think it’s because of the tier it’s in, I think it’s because it’s an unsupported PvP format born out of an inability for the WvW game mode to cater to the desires and play styles of the players. Unlike even sPvP, GvG doesn’t have matches 24/7, they are player organised (thus less efficient and accessible to most players) and the large number requirements can be hard to fill. It doesn’t help that it’s limited by server. The population of the format is incredibly small and access is very restrictive. Those hurdles will exist no matter what tier it’s in and they will always be difficult to overcome.

In many ways GvG is a symptom of WvW’s problems – a desire from players for organised (no rally bot pugs) open field fights (no tower turtling or siege nonsense) with competitive population balance (no skilless zerg wins design). Most PvP or sporting formats in the world strive for some kind of population balance (because it’s a core component of a fair competition) and WvW completely fails at that (because of this, WvW’s design encourages you to stack a server for easy wins, but less competitive PvP for your opposition). If the WvW team could dramatically lessen the WvW population imabalance issue (unlikely now that we are more than two years into the game’s life) and find a way to capture the things players love about GvG and integrate it into a map’s core design, I see that as the optimal resolution for this play style in GW2.

great post!

Liston.9708:

That said,
It is obvious though that an arena for GVG that guilds from any server – even their own – would fit the bill for many people. They could even monetize it with entrance tickets or arena passes…..

I totally agree to that and wonder why people dont ask more for that instead of trying to “negotiate a dance partner”. Obvioulsy there is a conflict material whenever gvg forces itself into wvw – especially when wvw peeps wanna have bl buff. Funnily enough – considering the few gvg guilds there are (3 being listed on the start page per server) – one wonders why those cannot go out of their way to agree on a date in OS or in the dry corner of eotm where I have seen my server gvg go. It is possible if one wants it. It just need some orga none wants to do. Instead we get post as such on the forum.
The time people spend on here argueing they could have done dozen of gvgs.

Interesting side not: what I see regarding gvg is that a lot of “gvg” guilds dont really get that many kids that want to play with them. Apparently gvg guilds spend a lot time getting their rooster/skills right. Your average wvw guild members are rarely into that. As a result the “gvg” guild comes to a wvw map and try to intercept guilds that want to do “normal wvw” at spawn.

T2 is having great fights. Lots of guilds on FA/SoS love fighting open field. YB has TC guild which is a great EU guild & they sometimes stay up late during NA for scrims/gvgs as well. Give T2 a serious consideration if you looking for some fun. Win or lose T2 is the place to be!

Can someone fill me in with the current situation of T2?
Is SoS imploading?
Did YB receive massive transfers?

Nick.6972:

Can someone fill me in with the current situation of T2?
Is SoS imploading?
Did YB receive massive transfers?

We certainty received few (around 5-6) mid sized guilds and only one big one [SG]. Dunno aboiut SoS/FA implosion

Nick.6972:

Can someone fill me in with the current situation of T2?
Is SoS imploading?
Did YB receive massive transfers?

Yb got a lot of transfers and have the most coverage in t2 atm. They are like the old Sos with less skill.
Sos lost a lot of people when they tried to push for t1 which resulted in the death of mag and lose of those ocx.

Nick.6972:

Can someone fill me in with the current situation of T2?
Is SoS imploading?
Did YB receive massive transfers?

YB has received a number of guilds, which is great. Their population can now better compete with that of SoS and FA.

More exciting is the GvG revival currently happening in T2. We are seeing a welcome return to groups engaging other, similarly sized groups open field. When guilds really want to test their worth, they head to OS and do 15s. T2 has recently seen (and will continue to see) an influx of players from Tier 1 who are tired of blobs and siege.

#GvGRevival2014

ualgh.1832:

Nick.6972:

Can someone fill me in with the current situation of T2?
Is SoS imploading?
Did YB receive massive transfers?

YB has received a number of guilds, which is great. Their population can now better compete with that of SoS and FA.

More exciting is the GvG revival currently happening in T2. We are seeing a welcome return to groups engaging other, similarly sized groups open field. When guilds really want to test their worth, they head to OS and do 15s. T2 has recently seen (and will continue to see) an influx of players from Tier 1 who are tired of blobs and siege.

#GvGRevival2014

So they leave t1 seige wars for t2 seige wars with yaks bend.