Guild Wars 2

That’s all WvWvW is now.

Oh, and the smattering of guardians, but it’s getting tiresome. Congrats on creating a beast of an easymode class which due to it’s near immortality at times has just attracted the biggest playerbase simply because when they play anything else they’re just demolished by the warrior/guardian train.

Who would have though giving high armour/high health/high mobility/high damage/multiple damage invulnerabilities/cc immunity and best condition clears combined with the best health regen in the game would make a class over played…

phaeris.7604:

That’s all WvWvW is now.

Oh, and the smattering of guardians, but it’s getting tiresome. Congrats on creating a beast of an easymode class which due to it’s near immortality at times has just attracted the biggest playerbase simply because when they play anything else they’re just demolished by the warrior/guardian train.

Who would have though giving high armour/high health/high mobility/high damage/multiple damage invulnerabilities/cc immunity and best condition clears combined with the best health regen in the game would make a class over played…

Sounds like you Are you referring to Chuck Norris?

Somebody got smashed

phaeris.7604:

Who would have though giving high armour/high health/high mobility/high damage/multiple damage invulnerabilities/cc immunity and best condition clears combined with the best health regen in the game would make a class over played…

I enjoy my 30/30/30/30/30 build with 4 armour sets equipped at once, with 5 weapon sets available to swap to, and my skills from other classes.

Pls don’t nerf.

Always funny to see warriors justify their class.

Keep going though, the fact you do well is all you, all your skill, nothing to do with the class.

No really.

phaeris.7604:

Always funny to see warriors justify their class.

Keep going though, the fact you do well is all you, all your skill, nothing to do with the class.

No really.

I know that’s sarcasm, but like seriously warriors ARE hard to play, I don’t follow the zerg but holy hell roaming on a warrior is hard to me, so is thief and engie… I can’t 1vX on any of those 3 classes

D/D ele is easy enough, Mesmer and Ranger seem to be the easiest and best classes for roaming.. To me anyway..

Put a warrior in a zerg tho and yes, immortality is a guarantee, only thing that can kill you is that thing called gravity

Warriors were a joke in PvP for a while. Now they’re viable. If a patch came out that made another class strong after a huge lul period of being bad to play, you can bet your bottom dollar that is all you’d see as well.

Warriors are flavor of the patch. Like Mesmers were for months before the Confusion nerf (which was absolutely needed).

Warriors were always fine in WvW.

The buffs just made them grossly overpowered compared to everyone else.

phaeris.7604:

Warriors were always fine in WvW.

The buffs just made them grossly overpowered compared to everyone else.

Warriors cannot be OP in WvW but not s/tPvP. It literally cannot happen. Adding an extra hundred bodies to the mix doesn’t change a thing other than the number of people you’re fighting at a time, in which case, ranged AoE classes get the most bang for it.

There is no skill or trait that comes to mind for a Warrior that actually gets better the more people he is fighting.

oh man, i rememeber when every post that even mentioned warriors insisted on that warriors were completely and utterly useless.

warriors used to be the laughing stock of the game. considering my very first character was a warrior, im quite happy that there are now posts like this /smiley

I`m with you, phaeris. And so is everyone else who has a clue about this game, even most high lvl warriors in teamQ are bored and/or disgusted by their profession, just check the spvp & profession balance subforums for reference.

McFribble, are you new to the game? It must that or you are trolling. Every sentence of your last post is so totally wrong and misleading, it is almost funny. Did you read your trait descriptions (hint: dmg on dodge, any form of immunity, any forum of cc reduction – all of these “get better” the more people you are fighting)? Do you know, what scaling of critical damage,power creep and consumables is doing in wvw compared to spvp?

Thats what zerging does to people, no clue about anything, but telling people “it literally cannot happen”. Just wow.

Its so nice to have such a new and refreshing thread, I really wish more people would QQ about Warriors on forums.

PS: I play a Mesmer.

phaeris.7604:

Warriors were always fine in WvW.

The buffs just made them grossly overpowered compared to everyone else.

This ^^

Warriors are #1 in zerg fights. Hammer offers more CC than other weapon in the game and its burst has very generous area: two second 240 radius AoE. I know it can be dodged, but there number of dodges is limited, lag and all the effects flying in a huge combat can make anybody’s dodges fail. Stability would help, but guess what profession has the best access to stability?

Warriors are #1 manning the siege under enemy fire.

Warriors are #1 when the giga lag hits. Healing signet will still heal, when other profession’s healing skills don’t work.

Warriors have soon replaced thief as the most common roaming profession. Mobility warriors are currently 2nd most common roamers after thieves, followed by PU mesmers.

McFribble.2349:

phaeris.7604:

Warriors were always fine in WvW.

The buffs just made them grossly overpowered compared to everyone else.

Warriors cannot be OP in WvW but not s/tPvP. It literally cannot happen. Adding an extra hundred bodies to the mix doesn’t change a thing other than the number of people you’re fighting at a time, in which case, ranged AoE classes get the most bang for it.

There is no skill or trait that comes to mind for a Warrior that actually gets better the more people he is fighting.

Ummm WvW and SPvP are incredibly different and it’s not just the number of enemies you’re fighting. First you have the fact that SPvP is about taking and defending small circle points, the builds for it are all based around that. You can most certainly have classes that are better at standing in a circle for a long time that aren’t that great at actually killing a single enemy let alone multiple. There are builds that aren’t great at staying in the small circle and they aren’t the best SPvP builds.

If you still don’t understand that WvW is very different than SPvP then bring a Ranger spirit build into WvW.

We have skills that certainly become better when fighting more enemies. Endure pain is absolutely awesome for zerg fights. It allows a warrior to wade in neck deep and get back out alive. Using Endure pain will either get you passed the front lines and into their squishy center or once in the backlines it will help get you out should your zerg faulter. Pretty much any AOE skill we have gets better as the chance that you’ll be hitting the max number of targets increases. You can’t tell me that rifle piercing shots aren’t way better in WvW than they ever would be in SPvP. I mean a piercing kill shot on a zerg can destroy quite a few people. Banners get better since you’ll almost always be providing max friendlies with a buff. Greatsword becomes a huge survival tool in WvW.

Warriors were only ever bad in SPvP where they didn’t really fit the meta that well. In PvE they were still gods and in WvW they were fine. When the game released they weren’t the best bunkers in SPvP since they had no protection and that was pretty much the name of the game. That is why ele’s, guardians, and engineers(iirc?) were popular, they could bunker for a very long time. Then things got nerfed, mechanics tweaked, warriors got buffed, new conditions added, and the situation is very different now.

warriors are not much better then any class if you look at what ONE warrior can do similar to ONE other profession.

In terms of zerg survivability, both guards, rangers and necros can hold just as well as them without any real effort.
In terms of damage they are outperformed by guards (staff), ele, rangers and necros. Why? because all that godly warrior DPS, is 99% cleave. And what little AOE it has, DOES put the warrior’s “godlike” performance at risk thanks to how the weapons are made.
In terms of buff, they are outdone by Eles, Guards and VS thieves. They perform equally to shout-spirit rangers and engis.
In terms of mobility, outside of combat, they are great, however you do not want to be overly fast outside of combat, or you leave the zerg behind. And a warrior with a zerg build will be smashed by any roamer with a roaming build.

If you think 3k damage, 30%+ crit chance, 3k+ armor, 70%+ crit damage and 25k HP makes you godlike then think again. Most other professions can pull that off with more or less the same utility.
Healing Signet gives the illusion of the warrior being super strong, yet once you focus it, or you apply some poison/weakness, you watch the warrior melt instantly.

The most popular warrior zerg builds, are also more directed at the warrior then allies, often sporting just one shout and a single rez banner. While this is fine, it doesnt come close to the utility other professions can apply with equal builds.

Yes, the warrior is indeed just another FotM profession. At this moment, warriors simply offers the maximum survival with the least effort invested, but this only applies if you build around self sustain. If you do not build for self sustain, you are equal to or weaker then most other professions.

What?

Warrior starts with the most armour and most health of any class.

So no class will ever be able to make a template with the stats of a warrior simply because of that fact alone.

Maybe I misunderstand your post Prysin, but I disagree with almost all of your points being brought up. There`s a reason a lotta top tpvp team go with 1 better 2 hambow warriors. There`s a reason that all you meet is GS warriors roaming in wvw (and PU mesmers).

Synergy of GS, melandru, – condi buffood, cleansing ire, dogged march and healing signet is just the complete all-in-one defensive package in wvw, while being incredibly mobile and dishing out good damage due to power creep – theres no trade off anymore. Add incredibly powerful passives (auto-endure pain, auto healing, auto-stability,…) and immunities (2 endure pain, berserker stance,…) to that package, almost forgot about that. Did you honestly compare that to a shout/spirit ranger in wvw?

The only point I agree on, is that most of these all-in-one warrior builds are focused on self-sustain. But who needs more than that when looking for easymode?

Prysin.8542:

warriors are not much better then any class if you look at what ONE warrior can do similar to ONE other profession.

In terms of zerg survivability, both guards, rangers and necros can hold just as well as them without any real effort.
In terms of damage they are outperformed by guards (staff), ele, rangers and necros. Why? because all that godly warrior DPS, is 99% cleave. And what little AOE it has, DOES put the warrior’s “godlike” performance at risk thanks to how the weapons are made.
In terms of buff, they are outdone by Eles, Guards and VS thieves. They perform equally to shout-spirit rangers and engis.
In terms of mobility, outside of combat, they are great, however you do not want to be overly fast outside of combat, or you leave the zerg behind. And a warrior with a zerg build will be smashed by any roamer with a roaming build.

If you think 3k damage, 30%+ crit chance, 3k+ armor, 70%+ crit damage and 25k HP makes you godlike then think again. Most other professions can pull that off with more or less the same utility.
Healing Signet gives the illusion of the warrior being super strong, yet once you focus it, or you apply some poison/weakness, you watch the warrior melt instantly.

The most popular warrior zerg builds, are also more directed at the warrior then allies, often sporting just one shout and a single rez banner. While this is fine, it doesnt come close to the utility other professions can apply with equal builds.

Yes, the warrior is indeed just another FotM profession. At this moment, warriors simply offers the maximum survival with the least effort invested, but this only applies if you build around self sustain. If you do not build for self sustain, you are equal to or weaker then most other professions.

Now to counter you, I have 2 level 80 warriors (deleted a 3rd a long time ago). I don’t care if it gets nerfed, BUT warrior actually is one of the easiest classes to play.

The Armour+Health+Damage makes you OP, there’s no way you can deny that. No other class is that solid and still deals a crap ton of damage. Where my warrior without full zerk armour and traits hits nearly 10k with eviscerate, easily does 2k with regular AA, and hits 12-15k with 100-blades final hit, my guardian with the same armour and zerk traits deals 3k with the final greatsword hit on n°2.

While it is possible to counter a certain warrior build, the warrior has an advantage to you if he’s as skilled as you are, simply because of the passive heal and the ease of playing the warrior, as compared to certain classes requiring a lot more effort and timing.

So no, I don’t agree. I played warrior a lot and if I had to list classes from most difficult to least difficult here goes (I left out ranger because I don’t have one):
- Engineer [Extreme]
- Thief [Hard]
- Elementalist [Hard]
- Necromancer [Average]
- Mesmer [Okay]
- Guardian [Easy]
- Warrior [Very easy]

Oh wow, is “Warrior-rage” the new “Thief-rage”? Awesome! QUICK ANET, BUFF THIEF WHILE NO ONE’S LOOKING!!!

Moon.6371:

Synergy of GS, melandru, – condi buffood, cleansing ire, dogged march and healing signet is just the complete all-in-one defensive package in wvw, while being incredibly mobile and dishing out good damage due to power creep – theres no trade off anymore. Add incredibly powerful passives (auto-endure pain, auto healing, auto-stability,…) and immunities (2 endure pain, berserker stance,…) to that package, almost forgot about that. Did you honestly compare that to a shout/spirit ranger in wvw?

The only point I agree on, is that most of these all-in-one warrior builds are focused on self-sustain. But who needs more than that when looking for easymode?

That is the achillies heel. You think that “aslong as i survive its all fine” however the warriors survival depends solely on the backlines survival. And if the frontline cannot stall the enemy frontline long enough for the backline to position themselves, the backline will be wiped by CC + DPS. This also works the other way around, no matter how awesome your hammer stuns are, if there is noone there to back up with hard AOE damage, they are null and void. All the warrior achieves in WvW is effortless self sustain. Oh and this is important, as i saw you compare tPvP with WvW which is something you should NEVER do, the game modes, damage/armor values and skills are different.

To explain why you should never ever ever compare sPvP and tPvP to WvW;
Spirit Ranger, arguably one of the strongest builds in PvP right now. It is easy to play, provides strong single and multi target damage, has CC, buffs, debuffs, passive healing and ress on demand. In s/tPvP it works, but if you try pull that off in wvw you will be wrecked instantly. While there IS niche builds for spirits (frontline bombs) these builds have been severely nerfed by the damage nerf on storm spirit and are barely viable atm.
Why does an awesome s/tPvP build not work in WvW? Because of the modes being different. s/tPvP is compact, hectic and action is often limited to very small focused areas. The screen cluttering the spirits provide works great in a small area with lots of movement, however in WvW things are larger, more open, less hectic and much much more visually easy on the eyes. You can spot the ranger by simply stepping back a few steps. The spirits provide little cover, and the damage in WvW is so high that spirits cannot tank it. This is why you must NEVER compare what is viable in one or the other ACROSS the modes. Even the ruins in the borderlands are too open to be compared to s/tPvP.

You lashed out on the shout spirit ranger, yes you are right, the warrior is ezmode by far, YOU can have 400 hps passive healing, YOU can deal 3-5k with each AA, however that is all YOU.
A single individual does not make much difference to WvW. This is where people are mistaken, not just you, players in general.
Often when things are discussed about rangers, people compare rangers performance to that of multiple warriors/guards/eles/necros. They do not intend to do so, but they always think; what can one ranger do for us which our army of people cannot do already?. The answer is nothing. One ranger does not make a difference in most cases, unless you are looking for mass AOE immob spam. But that is about the only niche rangers excel at to such an degree that one ranger can make a difference.
On the contrary, that ranger can apply 350 hps passive healing on 4 allies, in addition to condi cleases every 12 seconds, and swiftness. They can do this, in combat, without having to swap weapons. Yet at the same time, they can do, with GS, 1-1.5k damage on AA. Now, that is not epic damage, but the ability to provide a waterfield + protection on attack + passive healing + swiftness in one package, without too much of a loss to the ranger itself, is something the warrior does not come close to. Yes banners are great, no doubt, yes spirits are a pain to learn to use in WvW, no doubt about that either.
The ability to keep others alive, however you do it, always outweigh the ability to keep yourself alive.

another thing i’d like to point out is this; If ONE class can make “everyone into a warrior” then is that class stronger then the warrior? Or is the warrior still better?
To explain; Shout + Spirit ranger dropping Spirit of Nature and using Clerics gear, will grant 5 players a total healing of 770 hp/second (after march 18 patch fixing a bug with the spirit it will be 670). Now, that means 5 players will have greater passive HPS then a single warrior, all thanks to 1 ranger. That ranger can also rezz people, cleanse condies, apply hard CC in the form of immobilize spammage…. That is ONE ranger.
The ranger can last almost as good as the warrior, but is more susceptible to focus damage from 4+ players. Even if the warrior can survive the focusing, it cannot apply these boons/advantages to the team.

An ele can spray waterfields all over the place, do massive AOE DPS, apply stability to allies, cleanse conditions etc, spam CC and conjure lightning hammers and greatswords so other professions can do more damage… It will not last long, however the sheer amount of support and DPS it can dish out in less then 25 seconds far surpasses anything a warrior can do, at all. It comes at the price of being very squishy, and requires a high level of awareness to not get squashed.

A single venomshare thief can dish out more hard CC then 5 warriors can, simply because it grants hard CC to many people. That same thief can spam poison fields, lowering the enemies ability to even heal up, a very underestimated but incredibly strong aspect of the profession. The thief can also steal boons from enemies giving them to allies. That same thief, cannot facetank anything near what a warrior can, but a decent thief can avoid damage through shadowsteps/SB teleports. It takes a whole lot more effort, but the reward for the team is much much higher.

A single guard can apply more healing, grants burning to allies effectively increasing their DPS, not to mention a plethora of condi cleanses. That same guard will spam protection, might and stability more efficiently then any warrior to this date. It will also endure just as much punishment as any warrior on the frontline.

I am not saying the warrior is bad, but people are blinded by the “ezmode” and forget that other professions are extremely strong, just takes more effort.

Moon.6371:

Maybe I misunderstand your post Prysin, but I disagree with almost all of your points being brought up. There`s a reason a lotta top tpvp team go with 1 better 2 hambow warriors. There`s a reason that all you meet is GS warriors roaming in wvw (and PU mesmers).

Synergy of GS, melandru, – condi buffood, cleansing ire, dogged march and healing signet is just the complete all-in-one defensive package in wvw, while being incredibly mobile and dishing out good damage due to power creep – theres no trade off anymore. Add incredibly powerful passives (auto-endure pain, auto healing, auto-stability,…) and immunities (2 endure pain, berserker stance,…) to that package, almost forgot about that. Did you honestly compare that to a shout/spirit ranger in wvw?

You should know that I am definitely not best buddies with BUKA. While we are bitter enemies in the game, I must fully agree with the Moon’s analysis.

Prysin is using moot arguments “oh but the warrior is all alone, not providing any group support”. The number of points the roamers can give to their server often underestimated. It is not just the supply camps or sentries, mercenary NPCs and denying enemy of the supply it needs. It is also the stomping points, which can be around 1/3 of the total server points. Roaming warriors are right now crazily popular and there is many valid roaming builds for warrior. Today in WvWvW I saw more roaming warriors than thieves.

Low risk and high reward. The staple of a broken build. You can reset any fight as you can outrun anybody, usually even other mobility warriors since the mobility warriors are almost immune to CC thanks to melandru armor, lemongrass poultry soup, dogged march, cleansing ire and mobile strikes traits. Now every movement skill removes chilled, cripples and immobilized, which have -98% duration reduction. If you take the warhorn, you get even more movement impairing condition cleanse. Generally it is not needed and mobility warriors usually take longbow or other offhand weapon like shield for blocks. And while having better land speed than any other profession, the mobility warrior can have good amount of CC, high damage, relatively high health and armor, great amount of condition cleanse and good healing. I am not saying warrior should not have any of these, but when you can have all of these at the same time in the same build, we have a huge problem. There should be some trade off. You can choose two things among A, B, C and D, but not have A, B, C and D all at the same time like warrior can now do.

The problem is that this game is solely balanced from spvp/tpvp point of view. And even there warrior gets 1-2 slots in the top teams (20-40% share out of all 8 professions is a LOT). Mobility and stealth are much more effective in WvWvW than in pvp.

Warriors are popular in roaming because of mobility, not ability. Once caught they melt easily. Its like a thief, just it doesn’t disappear from your sight. There is nothing great with the current roaming warrior. It relies 100% on the ability to get away, in which it is performing very well, but given that i play a ranger, with heavy immob/chilled spam builds, i also know how easy it is to trap them and kill them. It takes no effort to melt them, only a lot of effort to catch them.

""You can choose two things among A, B, C and D, but not have A, B, C and D all at the same time like warrior can now do.""
Can do that with a ranger. The damage will be slightly lower, but in terms of roaming, it will perform the same or better. Takes more effort and skill though.

EDIT; also you are reading my reply out of context, i was replying to a post aimed at zerg performance.

If you want to discuss roaming strength then trap ranger or any other condi pressure build will wreck the warrior unless it runs away. Especially thieves, rangers and engies. Why?
Heavy poison application and a metric ton of evades means you healing signet and DPS is null and void.

There, deal with it, the warrior is no stronger then any other profession, just requires a lot less effort.

This image accurately demonstrates why you’re right to bring a warrior into any game mode

Prysin.8542:

but given that i play a ranger

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!

McFribble.2349:

Warriors were a joke in PvP for a while. Now they’re viable. If a patch came out that made another class strong after a huge lul period of being bad to play, you can bet your bottom dollar that is all you’d see as well.

Warriors are flavor of the patch. Like Mesmers were for months before the Confusion nerf (which was absolutely needed).

yeah that was a long time ago.

Ross Biddle.2367:

This image accurately demonstrates why you’re right to bring a warrior into any game mode

Best

+1

People do warrior trains because it’s an easy way to take out 5-10 PuGs out of any sized group because people haven’t gotten over GW1 mechanics and mastered dodging.

Also warriors are crap without Guardians for stability, mesmers for veils and pulls, and eles to focus the stunned.

Ross Biddle.2367:

This image accurately demonstrates why you’re right to bring a warrior into any game mode

Just in case anyone is confused over the image, it’s rock paper scissors warrior.

sephiroth.4217:

I know that’s sarcasm, but like seriously warriors ARE hard to play, I don’t follow the zerg but holy hell roaming on a warrior is hard to me, so is thief and engie… I can’t 1vX on any of those 3 classes

D/D ele is easy enough, Mesmer and Ranger seem to be the easiest and best classes for roaming.. To me anyway..

Put a warrior in a zerg tho and yes, immortality is a guarantee, only thing that can kill you is that thing called gravity

I know it’s your personal experience but you’ve basically got it backwards. Warrior, Thief, and Engie are the best roaming classes.

Berengar.6951:

sephiroth.4217:

I know that’s sarcasm, but like seriously warriors ARE hard to play, I don’t follow the zerg but holy hell roaming on a warrior is hard to me, so is thief and engie… I can’t 1vX on any of those 3 classes

D/D ele is easy enough, Mesmer and Ranger seem to be the easiest and best classes for roaming.. To me anyway..

Put a warrior in a zerg tho and yes, immortality is a guarantee, only thing that can kill you is that thing called gravity

I know it’s your personal experience but you’ve basically got it backwards. Warrior, Thief, and Engie are the best roaming classes.

Engi – agreed, it is very good
Thief – good until you meet someone who knows how to counter stealth, therefore you stealth and run away, you run, you admit defeat.
Warrior – if you can’t win, you run away. You run, you admit defeat.

Ranger is great, because the fights come to you. You do not need to worry about seeking out fights, they magically come to you. All you gotta do is bunker down and wipe the floor with the enemy.

Prysin.8542:

In terms of damage they are outperformed by guards (staff).

Guardian staff deals damage?

Well, we all know this is trash now, OP bearbow ranger is going to be taking the WvW scene by storm. #HammerTrain2013

Garrisyl.7402:

Prysin.8542:

In terms of damage they are outperformed by guards (staff).

Guardian staff deals damage?

Raw damage no, but the range and spread allows for more damage (spread out)

Say a warrior cleaves for 3x 3k, however it is slightly slower then the staff which does 2x 3x 1.7k in the same timeframe.