Guild Wars 2

I run as a solo havoc player. Havoc is what I enjoy most about this game. I get to PvP on occasions away from zerg warfare and contribute to my server. I run into alot of havoc soloist and havoc groups. But it feels to me like alot of havoc groups have the wrong perspective about the role havoc can contribute. But before I begin, this is just food for thought.

HAVOC FOR PPT

You just flipped a camp and provided your server with a higher displayed PPT. Congratulation? Nope. More often than not contributing displayed PPT to your server is denying your server points and potentially providing your opponents server with more, at least when it comes to camps. Ill use two “farming paths” I have for borderlands maps as exampkitten th paths cover 3 camps. The northern path covers 4 sentries and the southern path covers 3 sentries. Now, I could flip those camps and cross my fingers that my server has them for the tick or I could wait for the tick and try to flip one at a time for guaranteed points. Not to mention here, when I do flip the camp two allied yaks are going to spawn that provide your opponents with at least 6 points. OR, I could run the “farm paths” I run and not flip the camps and just kill the yaks and flip the sentrys.

Even if I were to be really quick on a borderlands, best case scenario im holding all 6 camps on an empty borderlands for 30ppt. But if I run one of the two “farm paths” I run, each tick I will kill 18 yaks and flip 12 sentrys. This equates to 66Points per tick for my server, with only one person doing it. Given two players, one running each “farm path”, it would equate to 132 points per tick for one borderalands at the cost of only two players time. Given 4 players spread across two enemy borderlands, one running each path, you can contribute up to an additional 264 points per tick, which on its own is a reasonable tick to have, but given that on top of your regular points per tick your server is going to be doing exceptionally well. And compare that to if you were somehow in the twighlight zone and flipped all camps instead, your still only going to get a maximum of 120 PPT.

Just some food for thought guys. I have been working on my Havoc for a long time now. I really think the vast majority of players look at the points system the wrong way. Its not all about the points tick your server displays. After moving to ET recently to sandbox Havoc some more, being the lowest ranked server in NA, I am at the conclusion that any server in the game has the coverage to hold the majority of their borderalands and there is an issue with players perception of how the game is played that is holding people back. Population and coverage are a big issue. There is no doubt about that. But given the right perspective, things would be alot closer regardless. I think the meta game is a little out of date. It needs players to reassess the game. Zerg mentality is still a part of it, but its way too big a part of the meta right now and part of that is game design, but part of it is also players perception.

Ill leave it there. Ive been running havoc for so long now I could write a thesis on havoc tactics. But I just wanted to bring the topic up. The gameplay I see does not reflect the view I see on how the game should be played if you want to do the best for your server. Players seem to see the 5PPT for flipping a camp and not the 6PPT you hand over to your opponents, nor the 18PPT you could be providing for your server. And this does go well beyond PPT into other areas like supply denial, but at the end of the day I just think players need to reassess how they play the game and brought the topic up for this reason. Feel free to discuss

Killing a dolyak which just stands in a supply camp with no destination is worth 0 points.

Killing a supply dolyak now awards 3 points to the team that lands the deathblow.
Killing a dolyak on its way to a destination is worth 1 point per player taking part in the kill. (I haven’t tested this after the killing blow rule – only the server landing the killing blow gains points)

Dolyaks respawn at rate of 1 per 7.5 minutes.

If there is a tower along dolyak’s path to keep/castle and the keep/castle is hostile, the dolyak will run back to the camp after reaching tower and starts a new round. This results in more supplies to the tower as one round takes less than 7.5 minutes. But no more dolyak killing opportunities.

If dolyak reaches its destination tower/keep/castle, the server gains 3 points.

Capturing a sentry point is worth 1 point. On enemy borderland the enemy is likely to flip the sentry right back. The net effect is that the 3rd server left 1 point behind. Hardly worth the time invested.

As havoc team on enemy borderland your aim should be set to denying the enemy points from camps (6*5 every 15 min) and points from dolyaks (2*2*6*3 every 15 min).

Looking at final scores of matchup the dolyaks are worth roughly 30% of total points.

The 66 points per tick requires more than 1 player. Maybe you calculated how much you deny points from the enemy into that figure. Still. Killing 18 dolyaks in 15 minutes is not possible, is it?

Edit: Killing a dolyak awards 3 points regardless of number of players taking part in the kill.

So how much points do you get each sentry and dolyak? I always read people mentioning they are giving points… but this is not even shown ingame – maybe that’s why nobody is doing this.

ArenaNet might consider removing the points from Dolyaks and Sentries. Only objectives captured should give points – because only these are mentiond ingame. That “hidden points” should be removed.

Also I heard if 2 or more people kill the same Dolyak it will give more points? Is this true? I mean it is the same Dolyak… should not matter if 1 person killed it or 2 or more.

Korgov.7645:

Killing a dolyak on its way to a destination is worth 1 point per player taking part in the kill. (I haven’t tested this after the killing blow rule – only the server landing the killing blow gains points)

Dolyaks respawn at rate of 1 per 7.5 minutes.

If there is a tower along dolyak’s path to keep/castle and the keep/castle is hostile, the dolyak will run back to the camp after reaching tower and starts a new round. This results in more supplies to the tower as one round takes less than 7.5 minutes. But no more dolyak killing opportunities.

If dolyak reaches its destination tower/keep/castle, the server gains 3 points.

Capturing a sentry point is worth 1 point. On enemy borderland the enemy is likely to flip the sentry right back. The net effect is that the 3rd server left 1 point behind. Hardly worth the time invested.

So how much do the points increase if more than 1 players are killing that sentry? And if it does not increase is there a reason why not? Why is it different than with Dolyaks?

Also why do more people give more points killing 1 Dolyak? I mean it does get easier to kill with more than 1 player… should give less points instead cause it was easier. Also we do not get more points for each defender in the keep… always the same fixed amount. They should remove this from Dolyaks.

The only think that seems to make sense would be to cap the points for killing a Dolyak to 3(if 4 players kill it they won’t get 4? or even more points if more players kill it). Cause this would be balanced then… if the defender also can get 3 points by defending it until it reaches it’s end location.

Korgov.7645:

Killing a dolyak which just stands in a supply camp with no destination is worth 0 points.

Killing a dolyak on its way to a destination is worth 1 point per player taking part in the kill. (I haven’t tested this after the killing blow rule – only the server landing the killing blow gains points)

Dolyaks respawn at rate of 1 per 7.5 minutes.

If there is a tower along dolyak’s path to keep/castle and the keep/castle is hostile, the dolyak will run back to the camp after reaching tower and starts a new round. This results in more supplies to the tower as one round takes less than 7.5 minutes. But no more dolyak killing opportunities.

If dolyak reaches its destination tower/keep/castle, the server gains 3 points.

Capturing a sentry point is worth 1 point. On enemy borderland the enemy is likely to flip the sentry right back. The net effect is that the 3rd server left 1 point behind. Hardly worth the time invested.

As havoc team on enemy borderland your aim should be set to denying the enemy points from camps (6*5 every 15 min) and points from dolyaks (2*2*6*3 every 15 min).

Looking at final scores of matchup the dolyaks are worth roughly 30% of total points.

The 66 points per tick requires more than 1 player. Maybe you calculated how much you deny points from the enemy into that figure.

A number of your stats are wrong here. For starters, every yak is worth 3 points, it used to be dependent on their location, then it was patched to be worth 3 points.

sostronk.8167:

Korgov.7645:

Killing a dolyak which just stands in a supply camp with no destination is worth 0 points.

Killing a dolyak on its way to a destination is worth 1 point per player taking part in the kill. (I haven’t tested this after the killing blow rule – only the server landing the killing blow gains points)

Dolyaks respawn at rate of 1 per 7.5 minutes.

If there is a tower along dolyak’s path to keep/castle and the keep/castle is hostile, the dolyak will run back to the camp after reaching tower and starts a new round. This results in more supplies to the tower as one round takes less than 7.5 minutes. But no more dolyak killing opportunities.

If dolyak reaches its destination tower/keep/castle, the server gains 3 points.

Capturing a sentry point is worth 1 point. On enemy borderland the enemy is likely to flip the sentry right back. The net effect is that the 3rd server left 1 point behind. Hardly worth the time invested.

As havoc team on enemy borderland your aim should be set to denying the enemy points from camps (6*5 every 15 min) and points from dolyaks (2*2*6*3 every 15 min).

Looking at final scores of matchup the dolyaks are worth roughly 30% of total points.

The 66 points per tick requires more than 1 player. Maybe you calculated how much you deny points from the enemy into that figure.

A number of your stats are wrong here. For starters, every yak is worth 3 points, it used to be dependent on their location, then it was patched to be worth 3 points.

True, there was a change to the dolyak kill points.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-April-30-2013/1927551

Edited my post above.

Luthan.5236:

So how much do the points increase if more than 1 players are killing that sentry?

No increase what so ever. Also killing the sentry is worth nothing, only capturing the sentry point.

And if it does not increase is there a reason why not? Why is it different than with Dolyaks? Also why do more people give more points killing 1 Dolyak?

I feel it is more balanced when it does not increase. The April-30 patch on dolyak points was also for the better.

The main difference was sentry points are rewarded for the capture, not kill. Full zergs would have large time window to go sit in the circle. Too many points for the effort.

Killing dolyak with a team is little easier (how easy can it get). I believe the old point system wanted to reward team play.

Korgov.7645:

sostronk.8167:

Korgov.7645:

Killing a dolyak which just stands in a supply camp with no destination is worth 0 points.

Killing a dolyak on its way to a destination is worth 1 point per player taking part in the kill. (I haven’t tested this after the killing blow rule – only the server landing the killing blow gains points)

Dolyaks respawn at rate of 1 per 7.5 minutes.

If there is a tower along dolyak’s path to keep/castle and the keep/castle is hostile, the dolyak will run back to the camp after reaching tower and starts a new round. This results in more supplies to the tower as one round takes less than 7.5 minutes. But no more dolyak killing opportunities.

If dolyak reaches its destination tower/keep/castle, the server gains 3 points.

Capturing a sentry point is worth 1 point. On enemy borderland the enemy is likely to flip the sentry right back. The net effect is that the 3rd server left 1 point behind. Hardly worth the time invested.

As havoc team on enemy borderland your aim should be set to denying the enemy points from camps (6*5 every 15 min) and points from dolyaks (2*2*6*3 every 15 min).

Looking at final scores of matchup the dolyaks are worth roughly 30% of total points.

The 66 points per tick requires more than 1 player. Maybe you calculated how much you deny points from the enemy into that figure.

A number of your stats are wrong here. For starters, every yak is worth 3 points, it used to be dependent on their location, then it was patched to be worth 3 points.

True, there was a change to the dolyak kill points.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-April-30-2013/1927551

Edited my post above.

Umm I just tested it again. I really think there is something buggy going on here. I sware sometimes I am getting up to 8 points for a yak kill and sometimes I am not getting any points at all…

But really. These yaks are worth a lot of points and for the points system to be bugged concerns me.

They should release some official FAQ. I read a lot about this… even in the German forums I read a lot of stuff from experience German players that play a lot 24/7 WvW and always different stuff. If even the experienced players don’t know it for sure ArenaNet should make an official FAQ – especially if they seem(according to some sites like Millenium) to make about 30% of the total points a server gets.

Better than having to read all the patch notes ever made(and then maybe looking for bugs if something works different than in the patch notes mentioned).

Luthan.5236:

They should release some official FAQ.

There is Wiki if you settle for unofficial information. However the dolyak killing granting points seem to be missing.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World

Yeah, dolyak farming is not nearly emphasized enough.

Dolyaks are worth 3 points when killed, or when they reach their destination. Dolyaks that are sitting in a camp without a destination are worth no points(otherwise capping a camp in enemy territory would end up giving them a net gain of points).

The scoring discrepancies that sometimes make it appear that dolyaks are worth more(or less) points are due to the scoreboard not always updating instantly, and getting mixed into points being scored in other areas or maps.