Guild Wars 2

Everyone who plays WvW at a small population server will agree: it is disappointing and unrewarding hard work to struggle for the scraps the biggest server is not interested on.

The problem is that small servers can only at best, defend a single battlefront effectively. The servers get a migration wave out and frustration settles in, Guilds that were crucial to the worlds defense move out to servers that can already defend themselves.

Plenty of people talk about boosting the outnumbered buff, but that solves very little.
Some say that camps/towers/keeps/castle should have more upgrades.
These are arbitrary solutions to loosen the noose of overkill around a badly defended world’s neck. I say, that there needs to be limitations on how many players are allowed to play on the instance, In other team based pvp games, a match with 10vs50 will be balanced by the game.

Since Anet is determined to let one server outnumber both competing servers, there needs to be some new mechanics to balance the player quantity or simply remove small servers from WvW. This could be done in a way that servers that do really badly in a WvW season get to be integrated with another server to form a world with enough players to compete with the more populated servers.

Anyways, this current WvW format only frustrates and encourages players to migrate to bigger servers and the few that try, might just wait out a round with a superior opponent. WvW is not worth the effort in the bronze league when your server is bound to be outnumbered almost always on every battlefield.

Merging servers would be awsome, only cause it feels like GW2 is a dying game most days.

No. Don’t merge servers. We don’t want blobs. Most people here are on Vabbi because they like small scale, they left their original servers for it. People who didn’t like it transferred to other places.

The outnumbered buff wouldnt be so useless if the ‘numbered’ server didn’t have easy access to bloodlust, which is like stack another food all together. Blackgate has all 3 garrisons and stonemist atm… vs. 5/6 sos and mag servers (both lost a fair amount of guilds before s1, and more fairweathers than either would like to admit after getting stomped so much)

I think 2nd and 3rd should get buffs and make 1st work for it if the score gets crazy(i’m sure BG would complain, yet enjoy actually having people come onto the map to fight, so long as the buff wasn’t outrageous) or specifically designed around outnumbered % resulting in a buff. That does solve ‘very little’ but its a step in the right direction that can be made easier than a complete revamp of wvw, or server merging. Can’t say it wont help out until bloodlust is dropped in favor of outnumbered and see how it goes.

Not sure about EU, but in NA all ANet has to do is reduce the map cap to 40 or 50, and T1 will crumble under the weight of their server stacking, and the players will spread out.

The only people opposed to the reduced map cap, are of course, the T1 band wagon stackers.

Will they do it? Probably not, ANet devs play on the T1 stacked servers.

Then again once they make the “overflow map” maybe they will reduce the EB and Borderland map caps….. who am I kidding that will never happen.

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Not sure about EU, but in NA all ANet has to do is reduce the map cap to 40 or 50, and T1 will crumble under the weight of their server stacking, and the players will spread out.

The only people opposed to the reduced map cap, are of course, the T1 band wagon stackers.

Will they do it? Probably not, ANet devs play on the T1 stacked servers.

Then again once they make the “overflow map” maybe they will reduce the EB and Borderland map caps….. who am I kidding that will never happen.

You are misinformed. Reducing the map cap by that much would negatively impact NA servers as low down as T4. It would obliterate EU servers completely.

I like blobs. The larger, the better.

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Not sure about EU, but in NA all ANet has to do is reduce the map cap to 40 or 50, and T1 will crumble under the weight of their server stacking, and the players will spread out.

The only people opposed to the reduced map cap, are of course, the T1 band wagon stackers.

Will they do it? Probably not, ANet devs play on the T1 stacked servers.

Then again once they make the “overflow map” maybe they will reduce the EB and Borderland map caps….. who am I kidding that will never happen.

There also devs in T2 and T4 and T5, your point?

Also T2 and T3 would be quite upset if the map cap was say 40 because you’d basically be telling us we can only let 3-5 guilds play at a time

Kardis.3297:

The outnumbered buff wouldnt be so useless if the ‘numbered’ server didn’t have easy access to bloodlust, which is like stack another food all together. Blackgate has all 3 garrisons and stonemist atm… vs. 5/6 sos and mag servers (both lost a fair amount of guilds before s1, and more fairweathers than either would like to admit after getting stomped so much)

I think 2nd and 3rd should get buffs and make 1st work for it if the score gets crazy(i’m sure BG would complain, yet enjoy actually having people come onto the map to fight, so long as the buff wasn’t outrageous) or specifically designed around outnumbered % resulting in a buff. That does solve ‘very little’ but its a step in the right direction that can be made easier than a complete revamp of wvw, or server merging. Can’t say it wont help out until bloodlust is dropped in favor of outnumbered and see how it goes.

Mag has not lost any guilds. we actually gained 2.
I think creating more maps but having a smaller population cap on each map would be idea, but thats where EotM makes it possible.

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Not sure about EU, but in NA all ANet has to do is reduce the map cap to 40 or 50, and T1 will crumble under the weight of their server stacking, and the players will spread out.

It wouldn’t affect JQ/SoR.
There’s no longer ‘T1 stacked servers’, there’s just Blackgate.

JQ has lost a large chunk of it’s playerbase, SoR has lost well over half it’s playerbase.
Look at the score, TC is even with SoR, that’s how far SoR has fallen over the last month.

I dont know what you mean OP.

Fun, fun, fun.

Bloodlust was poorly implemented. I hope they adjust it.

Hobbitz.5831:

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Not sure about EU, but in NA all ANet has to do is reduce the map cap to 40 or 50, and T1 will crumble under the weight of their server stacking, and the players will spread out.

It wouldn’t affect JQ/SoR.
There’s no longer ‘T1 stacked servers’, there’s just Blackgate.

JQ has lost a large chunk of it’s playerbase, SoR has lost well over half it’s playerbase.
Look at the score, TC is even with SoR, that’s how far SoR has fallen over the last month.

SoR is now in last place… We can only queue one map currently and we still can’t overcome TC and JQ. I don’t even see the regular commanders much.

Deli.1302:

You are misinformed. Reducing the map cap by that much would negatively impact NA servers as low down as T4. It would obliterate EU servers completely.

Wait, did you just imply that NA Tiers 2/3/4 can queue all 4 maps at once? I sure hope you didn’t, because they certain cannot. Reducing cap will not impact anything but T1/Blackgate.

Remember, there are 4 maps with player slots that need filling, not home BL + EBg.

Wvw should allow players from one three way to spill over into another three way battle, for kittens and giggles.

I don’t know about you, I’m on Eredon Terrace, bottom rank server, and I’m having a great time playing. I don’t care how I wake up to a map with none of my color on it every day, the fun is in taking it all back against all odds. Some people are too obsessed with winnings when they should be having fun. It’s just a game, for crying out loud.

They will not merge servers (PVE remember?)
They will not alter or buff/debuff players because that would give way to griefing.
They will not reduce map cap because queues are already a big complaint from even some Bronze League sized servers, and get worse as you move up the ladder.

What they could do (although they probably won’t) is alter how the PPT/Score works. In such a manner that it favors the losing team more, and gives them a handicap to be able to fight back no matter how outmanned.

One of the biggest problems WvW has now is that the winning side is 95% of the time the server with the better round the clock coverage or just flat-out the one with more people. This allows them to upgrade everything and make it very difficult for a perpetually outmanned server to even reclaim their objectives, much less push an enemy that greatly outnumbers them, has tons of siege, T3 walls and gates, etc.

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Deli.1302:

You are misinformed. Reducing the map cap by that much would negatively impact NA servers as low down as T4. It would obliterate EU servers completely.

Wait, did you just imply that NA Tiers 2/3/4 can queue all 4 maps at once? I sure hope you didn’t, because they certain cannot. Reducing cap will not impact anything but T1/Blackgate.

Remember, there are 4 maps with player slots that need filling, not home BL + EBg.

Tier 2 most certainly can queue all 4 maps, at least on reset night. I’ve heard even HoD queues all 4 maps on reset night and they’re in bronze league. If someone could verify that, would be good :P

No server can queue all 4 maps 24/7. BG did manage it for a short period of time early on in leagues, but now, it’s queueless once NA prime ends, except in EBG. Does not mean that map cap should be lowered. That would just mess with float teams and not be fun for anyone.

Everyone who plays WvW at a small population server will agree: it is disappointing and unrewarding hard work to struggle for the scraps the biggest server is not interested on.

OP- I am from Devonas Rest. We are one of the lowest ranked servers in NA bronze league. Our guild is a WvW focused guild. We have been along for the ride as we climbed tiers and during a population exodus as hundreds of WvW players left the server. We all know the mechanics of the PPT. Our WvW population has very few sheep. They are fighters, feisty, determined. You call the obtainable objectives scraps we look at them as opportunities. Our goal is not PPT domination but building our team. When we grow in size we know that each person is committed to the fight. The struggle is the environment we can grow the most in. If it was easy you wouldn’t have to think you could just follow along. If we wanted an easy time of it that is what PVE is for. As to unrewarding when we take a new member and train them to understand the tactics of maneuver, logistics, surprise, defense and see them executed there is great reward. When we watch new leaders grow and members take ownership of building the team, working well within the community that is a victory. I have seen a lot of posts about building a community and the community is strongest when we build teams / guilds that are effective.

This is a game but the reward isn’t about points, as much as a point win can be motivating and fun. The real reward is in the team you build and the people that fight hard and work together.

As to the recommendation to consolidate lower tier servers- NO thank you. I am very pleased to be part of the team on Devonas Rest.

Mochann.5298:

Wvw should allow players from one three way to spill over into another three way battle, for kittens and giggles.

I don’t know about you, I’m on Eredon Terrace, bottom rank server, and I’m having a great time playing. I don’t care how I wake up to a map with none of my color on it every day, the fun is in taking it all back against all odds. Some people are too obsessed with winnings when they should be having fun. It’s just a game, for crying out loud.

Wasnt going to respond in this thread again, im fully aware that complaining about being on a small server can sound whiney to people after a while – but I just wanted to respond to the “just have fun” comment.

Good news first – your server isnt last! and there are quite a few servers with similar ranking points to you so you will get relatively decent matchups most weeks even if your night-time coverage isnt great.

On my server (bottom of EU rankings) we are constantly losing to servers who have 5 or 6 times our score by the end of the week. We probably average 1 taggedup commander on maps during the day (not 1 per map just 1 total) they are fed up with leading smaller and smaller numbers of people to failed attempts on defended t3 towers, keeps and stonmist and dealing with subsequent criticisms from trolls in map chat. Before the league we played the servers closest to us so we would still be 2nd or 3rd every week but we werent being crushed like we are in the new league and we had fun.

Definitely not about winning – i’ve never experienced a winning week on this server and if I wanted to I wouldve transferred like some WVW guilds did a while back, its about balance as always. There isnt really an easy solution that keeps everyone happy though so gl with that Anet.

Vespirisa.1497:

Hobbitz.5831:

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Not sure about EU, but in NA all ANet has to do is reduce the map cap to 40 or 50, and T1 will crumble under the weight of their server stacking, and the players will spread out.

It wouldn’t affect JQ/SoR.
There’s no longer ‘T1 stacked servers’, there’s just Blackgate.

JQ has lost a large chunk of it’s playerbase, SoR has lost well over half it’s playerbase.
Look at the score, TC is even with SoR, that’s how far SoR has fallen over the last month.

SoR is now in last place… We can only queue one map currently and we still can’t overcome TC and JQ. I don’t even see the regular commanders much.

I suspect that many of the vets were feeling a little burnt out and once they knew first place was out of the question they stopped playing GW2 instead of dealing with the queue’s for the first few weeks of Season 1.

Maybe they will come back once season 1 is over. Or maybe they already found another game.

The problem is incentive. For this league incentive was given in the form of the best rewards going to the winning server. So the incentive was to stack blackgate whoever was destined to win silver league and hod who was destined to win bronze. Already low wvw populations got decimated by anets bad call to announce the winning server will get the best reward. Yet they made a lot of money in gem sales so they considered it a win. There is 0 incentive to transfer to a low ranked server. Our server is either last or next to last NA ranked server and its still like 1k gems to transfer here.

The fact our server DR is considered a high population is a joke. The numbers are either skewed on purpose by anet. Or they are taking into account everybody who ever was on DR and stopped playing gw2 all together. Anybody is free to guest to our server and see what a ghost town it is in every single pve area in lions arch and in wvw.

Chuck Zitto.2367:

The problem is incentive. For this league incentive was given in the form of the best rewards going to the winning server. So the incentive was to stack blackgate whoever was destined to win silver league and hod who was destined to win bronze. Already low wvw populations got decimated by anets bad call to announce the winning server will get the best reward. Yet they made a lot of money in gem sales so they considered it a win. There is 0 incentive to transfer to a low ranked server. Our server is either last or next to last NA ranked server and its still like 1k gems to transfer here.

The fact our server DR is considered a high population is a joke. The numbers are either skewed on purpose by anet. Or they are taking into account everybody who ever was on DR and stopped playing gw2 all together. Anybody is free to guest to our server and see what a ghost town it is in every single pve area in lions arch and in wvw. Well maybe your cant guest and see our wvw but ask anybody who has ever played us in the past 6 months.

I have no answers for the problem but I agree it is a large problem. How does a casual player even attempt at getting the Season 1 achievements complete against servers which vastly out number your server? Each time I go out I run into a group of 10-20 people. I think for me it is best just to stay out of the wvw area and focus on something I can actually accomplish till this is corrected.

I think the matter has more to do with ANet’s failing attempts to make WvW seasons “competitive” and allowing for people to switch servers on a whim.

In order to make it “competitive” the map player count per server needs to be equal to that of the server with the lowest player count. That’s a horrible idea just because coverage issues would regulate who can WvW and when, potentially making huge queues and overall small player numbers.

Additionally, players should not be allowed to enter WvW for a whole 1-2 weeks after switching servers. This prevents people from bandwagoning as easily.

That, or simply ANet could just ignore the whole “seasons” thing and return WvW to how it was before; closest match. WvW is fun, but unlike e-sports, there is no limit on team size/player participation. I like that ANet is trying to push the competitive aspects of their game, but this game is both way too casual, WvW is horridly unbalanced in both classes and server dynamics, and is in no way an effective means of displaying skill. I’d also argue that until they add in some kind of spectate feature or something, there’s no point in trying to make it competitive; e-sports are “sports” because they’re just as fun to watch as they are to partake in. WvW is definitely not in this category.

I say this because WvW isn’t even fun at this point, and the current systems only encourage the huge zergfest + high population servers. Ultimately, if your server is low-tier, going to WvW doesn’t feel fun, because you simply don’t even stand a fighting chance.

It’s not about losing or winning, it’s about being able to do something or having a real feeling of presence. Currently, lower-tier servers get none of this.

Because even the way it worked before is just as good of a measure of WvW capability as it is now; the top 3 are going to be the servers with the highest WvW population and biggest zergs. It’s why they do so well to begin with, and why the new system changes nothing except makes the smaller servers less inclined to participate.

ANet, you’re shooting yourself in the foot with this new system. You’re doing literally nothing to change the inherent problems with WvW and only de-legitimizing the competitive side of the game you’re trying so hard to push for.

Sirendor.1394:

No. Don’t merge servers. We don’t want blobs. Most people here are on Vabbi because they like small scale, they left their original servers for it. People who didn’t like it transferred to other places.

I’m on Eredon Terrace in NA and I feel pretty much the same way. I’d like some more players and some more around-the-clock coverage, but I’m really not looking for the sort of play people talk about on the top-tiered servers and like the small town feel at the bottom. The problem isn’t the small scale play but being matched against much larger servers and if ANet could resolve the match-up problem, it would actually be a good thing to support various scales of play for the people who want them.

Berk.8561:

Sirendor.1394:

No. Don’t merge servers. We don’t want blobs. Most people here are on Vabbi because they like small scale, they left their original servers for it. People who didn’t like it transferred to other places.

I’m on Eredon Terrace in NA and I feel pretty much the same way. I’d like some more players and some more around-the-clock coverage, but I’m really not looking for the sort of play people talk about on the top-tiered servers and like the small town feel at the bottom. The problem isn’t the small scale play but being matched against much larger servers and if ANet could resolve the match-up problem, it would actually be a good thing to support various scales of play for the people who want them.

This is actually a marvelous suggestion. Why doesn’t anet make certain servers have a population cap of 50 per map and disable transfers based on the average number of players in the BL (we don’t want it to be all queue’s after all).

Mochann.5298:

Wvw should allow players from one three way to spill over into another three way battle, for kittens and giggles.

I don’t know about you, I’m on Eredon Terrace, bottom rank server, and I’m having a great time playing. I don’t care how I wake up to a map with none of my color on it every day, the fun is in taking it all back against all odds. Some people are too obsessed with winnings when they should be having fun. It’s just a game, for crying out loud.

A game designed to cap points and hold them for ppt in order to win, yes….