Guild Wars 2

Revealed = 4s to bring this in line with PVP class balance, as WVW is supposed to be a PVP game mode…

If an attack is made in stealth and this is blocked, the attacker gets a 1s revealed. This adds more counter play with blocks and seems more appropriate.. seriously if someone is trying to stab you in the back, and you block it, how could you not notice they were behind you…

If a character exits stealth (normally, not revealed) they get an immediate 1s revealed, to prevent c/d spam (especially of NPC mobs and ambient creates) and force players to use stealth more resourcefully.

I think these three changes would bring about more counter-play and balance in the overall mechanic, not just thieves. It would also force many thieves to work towards a higher skill level rather than rely on an overpowered mechanic. At the same time thieves do need some buffs in their weaker areas. The amount of 521 thieves roaming is proof how much of an advantage the mechanic gives to the class – while other classes can stealth, no one can spam it at this level.

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

Revealed = 4s to bring this in line with PVP class balance, as WVW is supposed to be a PVP game mode…

If an attack is made in stealth and this is blocked, the attacker gets a 1s revealed. This adds more counter play with blocks and seems more appropriate.. seriously if someone is trying to stab you in the back, and you block it, how could you not notice they were behind you…

If a character exists stealth (normally, not revealed) they get an immediate 1s revealed, to prevent c/d spam (especially of NPC mobs and ambient creates) and force players to use stealth more resourcefully.

I think these three changes would bring about more counter-play and balance in the overall mechanic, not just thieves. It would also force many thieves to work towards a higher skill level rather than rely on an overpowered mechanic. At the same time thieves do need some buffs in their weaker areas. The amount of 521 thieves roaming is proof how much of an advantage the mechanic gives to the class – while other classes can stealth, no one can spam it at this level.

Lower, Larsonous Strike’s power by 75% and slow it by 10%, buff the daze on Tactical Strike by half a second, and buff sword auto attack by 10% overall, and I’ll accept these.

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Nuka Cola.8520:

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Yeah. Then we won’t see them anywhere at all. Just the cheesy double S/D build in Spvp.
They’ll be the new Rangers.

Nuka Cola.8520:

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Yes, we should cater to bad players.

Dual.8953:

Xsorus.2507:

Dual.8953:

Fishbait.6723:

Direwind.8409:

if you take a direct hit (not aoe) you should have stealth removed.

tbh Ao£ should get them out of stealth too.

i agree though, stealth is stupid in this game, more so then any other I`ve played by a long shot.

Then explain how a thieves are supposed to sustain combat? Damage breaking stealth would break thieves. All that would remain are a few stubborn backstabs in wvw. No one with a brain would take them in any mode, pvp or pve.

Strangely it didn’t break stealthers in most of the other MMO’s with Stealth Breaking on Damage, and they didn’t have the option of instantly restealthing.

In other mmo’s thieves don’t have to actively avoid all damage, and don’t have most of their strongest moves tied to stealth. In those games, stealth is designed to be purely as an openner. In guild wars, stealth is designed as mindgame trick at the core of thief’s combat style, not unlike Mesmer clones. Stealth is to be used to reposition and flank your opponent, but it is also warning that a powerful hit is coming. Clever opponents win the mindgame, those that refuse to awknowledge it get punished for thier ignorance.

Umm, Every MMO out there you ahve to actively avoid damage via cooldowns/los and they most certainly do have their strongest moves tied to stealth… Hell that’s pretty much the staple of all Rogues, that when they open in stealth they have a huge attack.

Stealth in this game is simply another system that wasn’t well thought out…. It works alright enough in PVE and even in SPvP somewhat after all the nerfs… but World vs World…come the hell on..

Xsorus.2507:

Dual.8953:

Xsorus.2507:

Dual.8953:

Fishbait.6723:

Direwind.8409:

if you take a direct hit (not aoe) you should have stealth removed.

tbh Ao£ should get them out of stealth too.

i agree though, stealth is stupid in this game, more so then any other I`ve played by a long shot.

Then explain how a thieves are supposed to sustain combat? Damage breaking stealth would break thieves. All that would remain are a few stubborn backstabs in wvw. No one with a brain would take them in any mode, pvp or pve.

Strangely it didn’t break stealthers in most of the other MMO’s with Stealth Breaking on Damage, and they didn’t have the option of instantly restealthing.

In other mmo’s thieves don’t have to actively avoid all damage, and don’t have most of their strongest moves tied to stealth. In those games, stealth is designed to be purely as an openner. In guild wars, stealth is designed as mindgame trick at the core of thief’s combat style, not unlike Mesmer clones. Stealth is to be used to reposition and flank your opponent, but it is also warning that a powerful hit is coming. Clever opponents win the mindgame, those that refuse to awknowledge it get punished for thier ignorance.

Umm, Every MMO out there you ahve to actively avoid damage via cooldowns/los and they most certainly do have their strongest moves tied to stealth… Hell that’s pretty much the staple of all Rogues, that when they open in stealth they have a huge attack.

Stealth in this game is simply another system that wasn’t well thought out…. It works alright enough in PVE and even in SPvP somewhat after all the nerfs… but World vs World…come the hell on..

BS. I’ve played Wow, and many other mmos, and in all of them but PSO2 and GW2, everyone just stood there and let their Avoid/Defense stat deal with the damage mitigation, occasionally using a pot when hp got low.

Thieves are a pretty much a non-issue to any WvWer who actually cares about helping thier server win. They don’t deserved a fraction of the flack they get, especially with classes that actually make a difference, such as Guardians running around actually contributing to the PPT.

A local mom discovered this ONE WEIRD TRICK to countering stealth!

Dual.8953:

Conan.8046:

Dual.8953:

Zietlogik.6208:

Dual.8953:

Conan.8046:

Dual.8953:

Conan.8046:

In other mmo’s thieves don’t have to actively avoid all damage, and don’t have most of their strongest moves tied to stealth. In those games, stealth is designed to be purely as an openner. In guild wars, stealth is designed as mindgame trick at the core of thief’s combat style, not unlike Mesmer clones. Stealth is to be used to reposition and flank your opponent, but it is also warning that a powerful hit is coming. Clever opponents win the mindgame, those that refuse to awknowledge it get punished for thier ignorance.

Stealth isn’t designed for openers? so your saying back stab isn’t one of the biggest hits in the game?
In other games your right they don’t have to dodge damage or use evades..oh wait they don’t in guild wars 2 either because its easier just to stealth again, which removes conditions and heals you. You can’t be attacked because they enemy can’t target you…now if you get caught in an AOE how is that NOT your fault.
Its nothing to do with a mind game, mesmer has clones, ignore them and kill the player.

In other games thieves don’t have to evade because the coding says that attack missed because evade statistics. In GW2 a hit is a hit, and stealth does absolutely nothing to cushion that hit. A thief facetanking 100blades while visible will take just as much damage as a thief facetanking 100blades while invisible. The condi-removal on stealth is decent but can be overwhelmed easily by any class that can stack more then one condition (see engie and necro). If you haven’t figured out how to fight without a target you’re hopeless. All melee weapons in this game do not require a target. (If you’re skilled enough you’d also notice that projectiles don’t require a target either)
And you’ve just described the solution to the mind game of the mesmer. /facepalm
Identifying the real mesmer and attacking him/her.
The mind game for stealth is being ready to react. Protip, don’t blow your cooldowns when a dodge will do.

Backstab isn’t the biggest hit in the game, there are other skills that hit harder, especially if backstab is improperly aimed. Also being a single hit which has can only hit once, it’s able to be recovered from by anyone who knows what they’re doing.

/sigh
It’s like people these days have no idea how to identify and analyse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnvn0swfviw

= Just like thieves in GW2.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Dodge

Thieves in this game don’t have that.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade

They have a ton of that though

Are you daft? Evade in Guild Wars 2 doesn’t just happen. You have to actually evade. In Wow, the game decides for you if you evade. The Rogue player just stands there tanking like warrior, the Thief player reads the enemy’s tells and dodge rolls. One is automatic and one is manual.

Your right if Wow was like GW2 dodge would have been tied to sinister strike and called evade.
You spam your attacks and evade automatically.

Only 3 skills do that, (and 2 on spear), flanking strike; only dangerous one of the three, deathblossom; considered subpar as a condi skill, and disabling shot; a spacing tool not powerful enough to be considered a threat. Wow Rogue is pretty much a sneaky warrior with stealth. It has passive defenses so the player doesn’t have to do much to avoid damage. Just stand there and let everything miss. GW2 thief has none of that, every time you miss a thief in gw2, it’s either because you have poor aim, or the thief player made the effort to dodge your attack.
Thief in gw2 doesn’t nor will ever play like a warrior who face tanks your hits. Get over it or get out.

Endurance and Vigor says hi! A thief really talking about evades? who whudda thunk

Zacchary.6183:

Nuka Cola.8520:

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Yes, we should cater to bad players.

already is a bad player if all you’re using for solo roaming a thief cough

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Yeah. Then we won’t see them anywhere at all. Just the cheesy double S/D build in Spvp.
They’ll be the new Rangers.

less spammable stealth and no cheesy BP+heartseeker spam=no thieves in wvw? What a weak class. You still got your stealth except now you gotta chose when and how to use it instead of spamming it as it was your auto attack.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Yeah. Then we won’t see them anywhere at all. Just the cheesy double S/D build in Spvp.
They’ll be the new Rangers.

less spammable stealth and no cheesy BP+heartseeker spam=no thieves in wvw? What a weak class. You still got your stealth except now you gotta chose when and how to use it instead of spamming it as it was your auto attack.

S/D control, destroyed. P/D condition, destroyed. D/x zerker burst, In tact. Non-burst stealth builds, destroyed. Non-stealth build, still where they are, which is sub-par with the exception of Double S/D FS spam.
Fix your aim much?

Zietlogik.6208:

Dual.8953:

Conan.8046:

Dual.8953:

Zietlogik.6208:

Dual.8953:

Conan.8046:

Dual.8953:

Conan.8046:

In other mmo’s thieves don’t have to actively avoid all damage, and don’t have most of their strongest moves tied to stealth. In those games, stealth is designed to be purely as an openner. In guild wars, stealth is designed as mindgame trick at the core of thief’s combat style, not unlike Mesmer clones. Stealth is to be used to reposition and flank your opponent, but it is also warning that a powerful hit is coming. Clever opponents win the mindgame, those that refuse to awknowledge it get punished for thier ignorance.

Stealth isn’t designed for openers? so your saying back stab isn’t one of the biggest hits in the game?
In other games your right they don’t have to dodge damage or use evades..oh wait they don’t in guild wars 2 either because its easier just to stealth again, which removes conditions and heals you. You can’t be attacked because they enemy can’t target you…now if you get caught in an AOE how is that NOT your fault.
Its nothing to do with a mind game, mesmer has clones, ignore them and kill the player.

In other games thieves don’t have to evade because the coding says that attack missed because evade statistics. In GW2 a hit is a hit, and stealth does absolutely nothing to cushion that hit. A thief facetanking 100blades while visible will take just as much damage as a thief facetanking 100blades while invisible. The condi-removal on stealth is decent but can be overwhelmed easily by any class that can stack more then one condition (see engie and necro). If you haven’t figured out how to fight without a target you’re hopeless. All melee weapons in this game do not require a target. (If you’re skilled enough you’d also notice that projectiles don’t require a target either)
And you’ve just described the solution to the mind game of the mesmer. /facepalm
Identifying the real mesmer and attacking him/her.
The mind game for stealth is being ready to react. Protip, don’t blow your cooldowns when a dodge will do.

Backstab isn’t the biggest hit in the game, there are other skills that hit harder, especially if backstab is improperly aimed. Also being a single hit which has can only hit once, it’s able to be recovered from by anyone who knows what they’re doing.

/sigh
It’s like people these days have no idea how to identify and analyse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnvn0swfviw

= Just like thieves in GW2.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Dodge

Thieves in this game don’t have that.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade

They have a ton of that though

Are you daft? Evade in Guild Wars 2 doesn’t just happen. You have to actually evade. In Wow, the game decides for you if you evade. The Rogue player just stands there tanking like warrior, the Thief player reads the enemy’s tells and dodge rolls. One is automatic and one is manual.

Your right if Wow was like GW2 dodge would have been tied to sinister strike and called evade.
You spam your attacks and evade automatically.

Only 3 skills do that, (and 2 on spear), flanking strike; only dangerous one of the three, deathblossom; considered subpar as a condi skill, and disabling shot; a spacing tool not powerful enough to be considered a threat. Wow Rogue is pretty much a sneaky warrior with stealth. It has passive defenses so the player doesn’t have to do much to avoid damage. Just stand there and let everything miss. GW2 thief has none of that, every time you miss a thief in gw2, it’s either because you have poor aim, or the thief player made the effort to dodge your attack.
Thief in gw2 doesn’t nor will ever play like a warrior who face tanks your hits. Get over it or get out.

Endurance and Vigor says hi! A thief really talking about evades? who whudda thunk

What is so hard for you people to understand difference between active and passive? In GW2, endurance and vigor don’t do a thing it the player doesn’t dodge. In other games, attacks inexplicably miss the stationary thief because the battle RNG calculator said so.

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Yeah. Then we won’t see them anywhere at all. Just the cheesy double S/D build in Spvp.
They’ll be the new Rangers.

less spammable stealth and no cheesy BP+heartseeker spam=no thieves in wvw? What a weak class. You still got your stealth except now you gotta chose when and how to use it instead of spamming it as it was your auto attack.

S/D control, destroyed. P/D condition, destroyed. D/x zerker burst, In tact. Non-burst stealth builds, destroyed. Non-stealth build, still where they are, which is sub-par with the exception of Double S/D FS spam.
Fix your aim much?

toned down and destroyed is two very different things. People playing on thief got so used to spam stealth 24/7 that any minor or major change is /okay im uninstalling f that…

QQ thread about stealth is late, usually it comes at tuesdays.

Nilgoow.1037:

A local mom discovered this ONE WEIRD TRICK to countering stealth!

Thieves hate her!

Nuka Cola.8520:

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Yeah. Then we won’t see them anywhere at all. Just the cheesy double S/D build in Spvp.
They’ll be the new Rangers.

less spammable stealth and no cheesy BP+heartseeker spam=no thieves in wvw? What a weak class. You still got your stealth except now you gotta chose when and how to use it instead of spamming it as it was your auto attack.

S/D control, destroyed. P/D condition, destroyed. D/x zerker burst, In tact. Non-burst stealth builds, destroyed. Non-stealth build, still where they are, which is sub-par with the exception of Double S/D FS spam.
Fix your aim much?

toned down and destroyed is two very different things. People playing on thief got so used to spam stealth 24/7 that any minor or major change is /okay im uninstalling f that…

A near 50% lose of contol and condition uptime is far from a small loss. Not even mentioning the loss in defense. It’s a massive nerf on all fronts to combat sustainability.

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Yeah. Then we won’t see them anywhere at all. Just the cheesy double S/D build in Spvp.
They’ll be the new Rangers.

less spammable stealth and no cheesy BP+heartseeker spam=no thieves in wvw? What a weak class. You still got your stealth except now you gotta chose when and how to use it instead of spamming it as it was your auto attack.

S/D control, destroyed. P/D condition, destroyed. D/x zerker burst, In tact. Non-burst stealth builds, destroyed. Non-stealth build, still where they are, which is sub-par with the exception of Double S/D FS spam.
Fix your aim much?

toned down and destroyed is two very different things. People playing on thief got so used to spam stealth 24/7 that any minor or major change is /okay im uninstalling f that…

A near 50% lose of contol and condition uptime is far from a small loss. Not even mentioning the loss in defense. It’s a massive nerf on all fronts to combat sustainability.

A Leap Finisher should’ve never been on a spammable skill such as HS so its increase of initiatives (which i don’t think anyone wants) or leap removed. For what CnD does is way too cheesy compared to anything other class have access to… i mean, you can spam it on walls and have close to perma stealth, wtf were they thinking. Not only that but a person that has two ranged weapons that requires a target can’t even hit a CnD spammer. This skill makes no sense and im pretty sure most seen how you can solo zergs spamming it, is this okay to you? is this how thieves should be? Of course if my suggestion hurts them too much they always increase their base HP or do other tweaking and the day it happens is the day you will see more than 2 peeps per day solo roaming on anything but a thief. I want stealth to be nerfed on my mez as well, not only thief.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Dual.8953:

Nuka Cola.8520:

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Yeah. Then we won’t see them anywhere at all. Just the cheesy double S/D build in Spvp.
They’ll be the new Rangers.

less spammable stealth and no cheesy BP+heartseeker spam=no thieves in wvw? What a weak class. You still got your stealth except now you gotta chose when and how to use it instead of spamming it as it was your auto attack.

S/D control, destroyed. P/D condition, destroyed. D/x zerker burst, In tact. Non-burst stealth builds, destroyed. Non-stealth build, still where they are, which is sub-par with the exception of Double S/D FS spam.
Fix your aim much?

toned down and destroyed is two very different things. People playing on thief got so used to spam stealth 24/7 that any minor or major change is /okay im uninstalling f that…

A near 50% lose of contol and condition uptime is far from a small loss. Not even mentioning the loss in defense. It’s a massive nerf on all fronts to combat sustainability.

A Leap Finisher should’ve never been on a spammable skill such as HS so its increase of initiatives (which i don’t think anyone wants) or leap removed. For what CnD does is way too cheesy compared to anything other class have access to… i mean, you can spam it on walls and have close to perma stealth, wtf were they thinking. Not only that but a person that has two ranged weapons that requires a target can’t even hit a CnD spammer. This skill makes no sense and im pretty sure most seen how you can solo zergs spamming it, is this okay to you? is this how thieves should be? Of course if my suggestion hurts them too much they always increase their base HP or do other tweaking and the day it happens is the day you will see more than 2 peeps per day solo roaming on anything but a thief. I want stealth to be nerfed on my mez as well, not only thief.

I give you a S/D and P/D example, and you jump right back to D/P and D/D .-. Way to dodge the topic.
Solo a zerg? Really? You’d think you’d hear about a thief defeating 20+ players in a group.
Increasing their hp is a horrible re-embersement, you might as well give them pets and call them Rangers after that. What you’re suggesting it equivalent to lowering your clone limit to 1.

(Also if a class goes all ranged, they’re already exposing themselves to blatant exploitable flaws, like reflect.)

Nuka Cola.8520:

Zacchary.6183:

Nuka Cola.8520:

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Yes, we should cater to bad players.

already is a bad player if all you’re using for solo roaming a thief cough

Already a bad player if relying on nerfs to make your game better cough

Been seeing alot of warriors roaming about lately who can easily gtfo when ever they like. Warriors currently have the advantage over a thief in a 1v1. The are better in small roaming groups (eg tanky hammer war) and better in zerg battles aswell.

Another post like this. Sigh….

The only things that should happen is the following:

• Stealth can’t stack
• Revealed will be applied after leaving stealth, wether the Thief attack or not
• Any form of blocking a stealth attack should reveal the Thief

Stealth can’t stack.
This would fix the incredible amount of rage against the Dagger / Pistol build. It would make it weaker, so they should buff it in other ways.

Revealed will be applied after leaving stealth, wether the Thief attack or not.
This would force thieves to think more strategically before entering stealth and not just blindly do it.

I think that the last point should have been there, but if they ever apply it they have to buff the Thief in some other way. A nerf like that would make it nearly impossible to kill Guardians since they can apply Aegis redicolously often and have quite a few blocks on their weapon skills.

All these changes would be an incredible hard hit to the Shadow Arts trait line, so it would need a massive buff to compensate for this nerf. Some ideas are:

• Increase the health regeneration from Shadows Rejuvenation
• Increase the amount of stacks of might applied from Hidden Assassin

I would just like to say that I’ve played both stealth dependent and stealth-less Thief since first beta event. It’s not overpowered, but people are struggling to learn how to counter it because forces them to think out of the box. It forces them to elevate their skill level, and some people just doesn’t want to put in the time to learn new skills.

These threads are usually packed with bad ideas and bad excuses, and this one is just the same. Crying about the fact that most roamers are thieves is just beyond stupid. The Thief is supposed to have superior mobility and the ability to select its own fights. A Thief need to strike at the right moment to be successful.

All of you that complain about stealth:
If the alter the current state of stealth too much then all the stealth dependent builds will change to one shot builds. I know that I’d rather have a long fight against a stealth abusing Thief than against someone that can hit me for 15-20k if they get lucky and land that backstab. As it is now we have both of those running around, imagine having only one shot zerker builds out there….

this is just a QQ from a guy who got demolished by a roaming thief so it seems, probably has not seen any roaming wars, guards, mes and eles. instead of learning how to play better.

i think they need to merge this thread with burnfall’s twice the fun reading posts like this.

Zacchary.6183:

Nuka Cola.8520:

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Yes, we should cater to bad players.

No offense, but the skill level of the medium thief on Guild Wars 2 is incredibly low, so right now we are already kneeling to the needs of bad players.

My first pg on Gw2 was a thief (you know, I played an infi for years on Daoc), and I’ve to say that is one of the dumbest classes in the history of MMOs, seems created just for people without brain (and this is the reason why I don’t use it anymore).

You do not like reality? Amen, but if you think you need skill to use a thief, I can only laugh thinking about your ‘funny’ concept of skill ;-)

Give it something else besides the stealth. That kind of thing should not be in a game like this. Give the thief some attack speed or whatever, stealth is just so lame kitten .

Edeor.9720:

Zacchary.6183:

Nuka Cola.8520:

CnD damage removed completely or initiatives increased to 9
Heartseeker leap finisher removed completely
Shadow Refuge CD increased to 90sec
5sec reveal debuff for all stealth skills in the game

Lots of Thieves will cry on this forum but its for the best of the game. Maybe then we will start seeing anything else but thieves solo roaming in wvw…

Yes, we should cater to bad players.

No offense, but the skill level of the medium thief on Guild Wars 2 is incredibly low, so right now we are already kneeling to the needs of bad players.

My first pg on Gw2 was a thief (you know, I played an infi for years on Daoc), and I’ve to say that is one of the dumbest classes in the history of MMOs, seems created just for people without brain (and this is the reason why I don’t use it anymore).

You do not like reality? Amen, but if you think you need skill to use a thief, I can only laugh thinking about your ‘funny’ concept of skill ;-)

And you guys think rotations takes more skill than resource management? See that’s one of the 3 greatest reasons why most of you who are complaining are called ignorant and then trolled.

Reason #1: Rotations vs resource managment.

Spamming heartseeker might seem “cheap” and “unskilled” but firing off 143255`5423` repeat (my take of the guard GS/H rotation) is just as mindless if not even more. But here is the difference… not only does my guard keep damaging, but it also controls the enemy until is switch back to GS where I refresh my boons and continue attacking. My thief spamming heartseeker, however, would be more of an initiative waste the more hp you have. Until then, I would be using heartseeker as a gap closer and save my initiative for Black Powder or something else that will keep myself from being chain-controlled. That is resource management and I have to keep doing that on the fly. TL;DR More is involved with resource management than with rotations.

Reason #2: Telling people with experience from a very inexperienced point of view

Metaphorically, you are a janitor telling a governor how his job works. :I We know how the thief works. You don’t.

Did anyone ever think about how utility-heavy thief weapon skills are? No, because they’ve never played it. Did anyone think that maybe the reason why thieves spam 1 of their 5 skills is because the rest are either weak or costly? No, because they’ve never played a thief. Did anyone ever think that out of those 5 weak/costly weapon skills that perhaps at least ONE of the skills focused on damage with a no utility and a slightly reduced cost making it the ability to spam for damage? No, because they’ve never played a thief.

That is why we say “L2P, roll a thief”. There is NO EXCUSE NOT TO.

Reason #3: I L2Ped while you kept QQing.

Example:

I was once getting completely owned by mesmers left and right. By rolling one and getting him up to at least 40 I found out why. Signet of Domination > Phantasmal Duelist > Magic Bullet > switch to GS > Phantasmal Berserker > Mirror Blade > Mind Wrack > switch to s/p > repeat.

Once I figured that out, I carried Blinds, Tripwire, 2 stun breaks and Thieves Guild. Killing them seemed like a joke compared to before because I ……………………… (wait for it)……………………….. learned to play.

Stealth is extremely annoying in this game. I dont play thief but I have to admit that you cannot nerf stealth without totally revamping the thief profession.

But one thing should really be done: you really should see damage numbers when you hit someone in stealth! Its hard enough to actually track a stealthed char in this game. Anytimer chains is not a solution because not every profession got anytimer chains (e.g. dd ele) and often its too late because you first notice on the second hit.

Its absolutely rediculous that you dont see damage numbers on stealthed characters. The rest is fine, annoying but I can live with it.

Direwind.8409:

its totally insane how a class with stealth can just pop it and even when hit directly remain in stealth, classes like thief just stealth spam using cloak and dagger and reset a fight at will, it takes no great feat of skill to just spam stealth nonstop stabing a player who has no clue where you are.

yes I have an 80 thief.

Stealth should not remove target lock, you should regain lock once they appear.
stealth should not be stackable.
stealth should be removed when they attack and are blocked.
any and all action from stealth should remove stealth.
if you take a direct hit (not aoe) you should have stealth removed.

thay R OP, please nerf !!!

aspirine.6852:

Give it something else besides the stealth. That kind of thing should not be in a game like this. Give the thief some attack speed or whatever, stealth is just so lame kitten .

ok what will attack speed do and crit do to guardians and wars, mes eles bunker build? our skill is for 1v1, our armor is low, our hp is low. so basically we are just like another MOA ready to be slaughtered.

Well, what would you say if i suggest:
Strikes from stealth do not remove aegis/blind and neither remove stealth, seems logical to me.

cancerous thread

I don’t get the block part being such an issue really. I played warrior now for a few months to take a break from thief. I noticed that you actually get the “block” text on your computer when a thief hits you from stealth. Sure if the thief attacked me without me knowing him being there I won’t be able to stop the second one, but if I saw him stealth himself I’d just click the 180° turn or dodge when I see the block occur.

I find it both amusing and strange that you have a lvl 80 thief, yet you are complaining about the one very thing that makes the class different from the rest.

I fail to understand the point of this thread.. Are you raging because stealth makes you too awesome and OP that you kill everything and are bored because you lack a challenge?

Do you hate stealth so much that you play a non-stealth thief and get killed by everything?

Or do you just not know how to utilize stealth in the same fashion as the enemy thieves you meet?

I feel your original post to be illogical and simply lazy at best. Right now I main a thief in WvW. I’ve killed thieves, and I’ve also been killed BY thieves. Learn the class and learn how to fight it. You are not invulnerable while stealthed. Root/stun/daze etc. them when they pop out of stealth. Even if they stealth if you KNOW you CC’d them, keep hitting the spot, you WILL hit them and it WILL hurt. When a thief stealths, swing with your 1 skill repeatedly, if you hit them your auto attack animation will play out. If you stop hitting them your animation will repeat the first stage.

Yesterday I had a thief on me running the same setup as I. He was stealthing in and out and poking me.. I activated basilisk venom and waited for him to reappear. Once he did so, I targeted, and just before he stealthed again, I dropped blinding powder, shadowstepped and backstabbed, he was now turned to stone and unable to stealth, and after a few more 1,1,1, auto hits, he was down and stomped.

Other classes have high armor/toughness, massive regen/heal (warrior/guardian), blast their own combo heals and make you slow as hell with chill/cripple etc. (ele and engi), and one class even gets an extra HP bar which blankets them AND gives them better damage (necro [deathshroud]).

Learn to play around the strengths of the classes you fight. Sure I’ve wanted to rage about things other classes can do too, but if you practice it becomes less of an issue.

My ranger can kill 5 people at once without stealth, nerf me?

Direwind.8409:

its totally insane how a class with stealth can just pop it and even when hit directly remain in stealth, classes like thief just stealth spam using cloak and dagger and reset a fight at will, it takes no great feat of skill to just spam stealth nonstop stabing a player who has no clue where you are.

yes I have an 80 thief.

Stealth should not remove target lock, you should regain lock once they appear.
stealth should not be stackable.
stealth should be removed when they attack and are blocked.
any and all action from stealth should remove stealth.
if you take a direct hit (not aoe) you should have stealth removed.

Op

The world need more honest thieves as you.

Thank You! for your confessions and truths bearing.

We need more like you in changing the brokened world and making an example out of it..

Once again,

Thank You!

Furajir.3815:

My ranger can kill 5 people at once without stealth, nerf me?

I have a buddy that would love to know your build! LOL! (seriously)

Sir Kaboomski.1508:

Furajir.3815:

My ranger can kill 5 people at once without stealth, nerf me?

I have a buddy that would love to know your build! LOL! (seriously)

Ranger here, i also would like to know this “My ranger can kill 5 people at once without stealth, nerf me?” build?

And I’m also serious.

Nuka Cola.8520:

Theftwind.8976:

engineers > thieves

the problem isn’t thief<X but stealthing/Heartseekering to the other side of the map without you being able to see the target. its just to easy to get out of fights. I want stealth to be nerfed as much as rangers will be nerfed in the next 2 patches and that is coming from some1 who mains a stealth class.

Excuse me?

Why would you compare thief stealth to ranger’s “stealth”?

As a ranger, our “stealth doesn’t last more than 3 sec..” while your thief class mechanics revovles around ‘24/7’ stealths.

Any thieves here can tell you how ‘useless’ rangers ‘stealth’ is to them..
kitten, we rangers are still easy killable to you Op thieves, no matter what ‘changes’ we are given.

You nerfed our pets damage and mobility,

what now, make us run naked with a useless pet.. is that what you want?

Do you want to counter stealthed thieves? Turn CCW when a thief CnD you.
Why? Most, if not all thieves, use #1 to backstab, as we need the ring finger to hit #1, only left the index finger to hold D, so strafing CCW around the target.
It will not always work, but mostly of times.

And stop crying, thief without stealth is a broken warrior.

Burnfall.9573:

Nuka Cola.8520:

Theftwind.8976:

engineers > thieves

the problem isn’t thief<X but stealthing/Heartseekering to the other side of the map without you being able to see the target. its just to easy to get out of fights. I want stealth to be nerfed as much as rangers will be nerfed in the next 2 patches and that is coming from some1 who mains a stealth class.

Excuse me?

Why would you compare thief stealth to ranger’s “stealth”?

As a ranger, our “stealth doesn’t last more than 3 sec..” while your thief class mechanics revovles around ‘24/7’ stealths.

Any thieves here can tell you how ‘useless’ rangers ‘stealth’ is to them..
kitten, we rangers are still easy killable to you Op thieves, no matter what ‘changes’ we are given.

You nerfed our pets damage and mobility,

what now, make us run naked with a useless pet.. is that what you want?

What might get nerfed on Ranger is Spirits. Take a gander at SPvP Burnfall.

Direwind.8409:

its totally insane how a class with stealth can just pop it and even when hit directly remain in stealth, classes like thief just stealth spam using cloak and dagger and reset a fight at will, it takes no great feat of skill to just spam stealth nonstop stabing a player who has no clue where you are.

yes I have an 80 thief.

Stealth should not remove target lock, you should regain lock once they appear.
stealth should not be stackable.
stealth should be removed when they attack and are blocked.
any and all action from stealth should remove stealth.
if you take a direct hit (not aoe) you should have stealth removed.

Right a thief complaining about the thief class and want’s it nerfed. Geez man we never heard that one before.

Thief is balanced atm , stealth is fine since you can knockback/knockdown/stun and kill a thief in stealth. I got hit by skullcrack and got a stun for 5 seconds yesterday in shadow refuge.

offence.4726:

Direwind.8409:

its totally insane how a class with stealth can just pop it and even when hit directly remain in stealth, classes like thief just stealth spam using cloak and dagger and reset a fight at will, it takes no great feat of skill to just spam stealth nonstop stabing a player who has no clue where you are.

yes I have an 80 thief.

Stealth should not remove target lock, you should regain lock once they appear.
stealth should not be stackable.
stealth should be removed when they attack and are blocked.
any and all action from stealth should remove stealth.
if you take a direct hit (not aoe) you should have stealth removed.

Right a thief complaining about the thief class and want’s it nerfed. Geez man we never heard that one before.

Thief is balanced atm , stealth is fine since you can knockback/knockdown/stun and kill a thief in stealth. I got hit by skullcrack and got dazed for 5 seconds yesterday in shadow refuge.

skullcrack stuns, not daze. Stun is a lot more lethal too. Actually changing the stun on skullcrack from a stun to daze might be a good fix.

Lol @ OP: Another “thief” asking for a nerf. No one asks for a thief on their own class though. Nice try.

style.6173:

Lol @ OP: Another “thief” asking for a nerf. No one asks for a thief on their own class though. Nice try.

Yea it’s quite funny and even more funny that he got upvoted in a matter of minutes by ofc the no longer playing active thief forum trolls sorry for the OT.

On a closing note newsflash : stealth was already nerfed and got reverted back so OP get your facts right next time.

This should be posted automatically on every thread like this.

Hi everyone.
First of all, my english isn’t really perfect, but i’ll try my best to express my thoughts about the current state of the thief… (maybe not the right spot to write it down, but another nerf topic poped up, so i decided to jump on it).

To get straight to the point i played thief for something like 2.3K hours both PvP / WvW (a bit of PvE too).
Recently i switched to warrior for those reasons: CC , burst, toughness, mobility, and so on.. in the same build.
On a top of that too much classes can have access to stealth and nice mobility, so i don’t feel being “special” playing thief. (I would say the same as a necro with torment).
When I first started the game really expected each class can have something really unique, really particular.

In WvW it’s just much more interesting playing warrior: even more greater mobility (playing with sword instead of mace, for extra gaps or heights jumping, resets, chasing etc..). Running melandru runes, food and “dodge march”, your almost unstopable.
Rolling back to my thief, i feel really slow, even burning my ini to move faster.
Yet thief still masters heights if your know where to port, even if it have been nerfed a bit.
To me Stealth isn’t that strong in sPvP neither in WvW. However perma stealth (D/P set) is IMHO specially when you just burst down a squishy target that don’t have time to react in half a sec.
I really think Thief gameplay is too unstable and should be rework to be more consistent with the whole gameplay…

Dual.8953:

Xsorus.2507:

Dual.8953:

Xsorus.2507:

Dual.8953:

Fishbait.6723:

Direwind.8409:

if you take a direct hit (not aoe) you should have stealth removed.

tbh Ao£ should get them out of stealth too.

i agree though, stealth is stupid in this game, more so then any other I`ve played by a long shot.

Then explain how a thieves are supposed to sustain combat? Damage breaking stealth would break thieves. All that would remain are a few stubborn backstabs in wvw. No one with a brain would take them in any mode, pvp or pve.

Strangely it didn’t break stealthers in most of the other MMO’s with Stealth Breaking on Damage, and they didn’t have the option of instantly restealthing.

In other mmo’s thieves don’t have to actively avoid all damage, and don’t have most of their strongest moves tied to stealth. In those games, stealth is designed to be purely as an openner. In guild wars, stealth is designed as mindgame trick at the core of thief’s combat style, not unlike Mesmer clones. Stealth is to be used to reposition and flank your opponent, but it is also warning that a powerful hit is coming. Clever opponents win the mindgame, those that refuse to awknowledge it get punished for thier ignorance.

Umm, Every MMO out there you ahve to actively avoid damage via cooldowns/los and they most certainly do have their strongest moves tied to stealth… Hell that’s pretty much the staple of all Rogues, that when they open in stealth they have a huge attack.

Stealth in this game is simply another system that wasn’t well thought out…. It works alright enough in PVE and even in SPvP somewhat after all the nerfs… but World vs World…come the hell on..

BS. I’ve played Wow, and many other mmos, and in all of them but PSO2 and GW2, everyone just stood there and let their Avoid/Defense stat deal with the damage mitigation, occasionally using a pot when hp got low.

Thieves are a pretty much a non-issue to any WvWer who actually cares about helping thier server win. They don’t deserved a fraction of the flack they get, especially with classes that actually make a difference, such as Guardians running around actually contributing to the PPT.

Rofl, So in all the MMO’s you’ve played, You’ve never once used LoS or Cooldowns to avoid anything in any MMO? Why do we care about your opinion again?

Lets look at proper Stealthing done right in a video game

Why not jst dodge/ not stand still… lol i mained thief for a long time then rolled warr and playing d/p burst thieves are not to bad if you know what your doing.

Xsorus.2507:

Dual.8953:

Xsorus.2507:

Dual.8953:

Xsorus.2507:

Dual.8953:

Fishbait.6723:

Direwind.8409:

if you take a direct hit (not aoe) you should have stealth removed.

tbh Ao£ should get them out of stealth too.

i agree though, stealth is stupid in this game, more so then any other I`ve played by a long shot.

Then explain how a thieves are supposed to sustain combat? Damage breaking stealth would break thieves. All that would remain are a few stubborn backstabs in wvw. No one with a brain would take them in any mode, pvp or pve.

Strangely it didn’t break stealthers in most of the other MMO’s with Stealth Breaking on Damage, and they didn’t have the option of instantly restealthing.

In other mmo’s thieves don’t have to actively avoid all damage, and don’t have most of their strongest moves tied to stealth. In those games, stealth is designed to be purely as an openner. In guild wars, stealth is designed as mindgame trick at the core of thief’s combat style, not unlike Mesmer clones. Stealth is to be used to reposition and flank your opponent, but it is also warning that a powerful hit is coming. Clever opponents win the mindgame, those that refuse to awknowledge it get punished for thier ignorance.

Umm, Every MMO out there you ahve to actively avoid damage via cooldowns/los and they most certainly do have their strongest moves tied to stealth… Hell that’s pretty much the staple of all Rogues, that when they open in stealth they have a huge attack.

Stealth in this game is simply another system that wasn’t well thought out…. It works alright enough in PVE and even in SPvP somewhat after all the nerfs… but World vs World…come the hell on..

BS. I’ve played Wow, and many other mmos, and in all of them but PSO2 and GW2, everyone just stood there and let their Avoid/Defense stat deal with the damage mitigation, occasionally using a pot when hp got low.

Thieves are a pretty much a non-issue to any WvWer who actually cares about helping thier server win. They don’t deserved a fraction of the flack they get, especially with classes that actually make a difference, such as Guardians running around actually contributing to the PPT.

Rofl, So in all the MMO’s you’ve played, You’ve never once used LoS or Cooldowns to avoid anything in any MMO? Why do we care about your opinion again?

Lets look at proper Stealthing done right in a video game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT8rFyQgYg0

Is DAOC active combat? jw doesnt look like it from what i saw

so what you want is for anet to make the thief class not a thief but more sort of a…..zerker mesmer? with out you know the class utility and all that, so in essence…..a class that despite its arch type, cant infact do any of the things its suposed to do, defy fantasy logic (because we all like not having any form of logic in our games). or is this just a cry for help because when a thief goes invis you stop what youre doing, instead of spamming auto attack or all your aoe abilities as fast as you can on the spot they vanished? i get it if he has teleports, but seriously people? why dont you fix warrior stuns, first, then come complain about a CLASS MECHANIC……gtfo