Showing Posts For Ajax.5346:
B) SA isn’t viable in any level TPvP currently, which was the entirety of the point of my suggestions – to make it viable in TPvP.
That is my whole point. Why suggest subpar changes that really doesn’t change anything?
We’re having this discussion because we want SA to be viable in both PvP and WvW.
By your own admission, you don’t play WvW so I’m going to assume you are not aware of the issue WvW thieves encounter in WvW. How can you even state/suggest changes when you don’t have a clear understanding of that game mode? As I stated before, you want blind nerf to SA for the sake of pvp.
You’ve yet to explain why you feel that the changes are sub-par, you’ve just stated it as though it were a fact (which it isnt). Just because it might hurt the way you play in WvW does not make it bad. For just 1 example, being able to continue attacking your target while still benefiting from your traits rather than being forced to sit in stealth because you need to drop that condition or need to regen some health certainly seems better to me. “On revealed” triggers mitigate revealed traps and ranger/engi skills. Not being able to just sit in stealth for benefits might hurt some playstyles, but that doesn’t mean it’s bad, you just perceive it that way.
I don’t need to play WvW to understand how powerful stealth without any of SPvP’s restrictions can be – it’s plain as day. I also don’t need to play WvW to see that ANet specifically designed thief to weave in and out of stealth rather than sit in it for extended periods of time. GW2 handles stealth differently than nearly every other MMO with a stealth class in it. You’re clearly supposed to weave in and out of short duration stealth rather than stealth being a permanent, 1 shot burst skill (with your perfunctory long CD re-stealth meant as an escape). Why they designed SA to benefit from sitting in stealth as long as possible is beyond me, but it should be fixed.
I touched on it briefly in my previous post. If they follow thru with your changes, how would you spec? 10/30/30? 10/0/30/0/30? 10/0/30/30/0? I really would like to know How would a full SA thief be better than a cele d/d ele or ham/bow warrior when those classes bring much more in terms of a balance build. Why take a thief then? Basically, you have the mobility but cant do jack kitten once you get there.
“On revealed” triggers mitigate revealed traps and ranger/engi skills."
Clearly we see ranger/engi reveal skill in top lvl tpvp. Do you even pvp? Reveal changes were made for WvW….
“You’re clearly supposed to weave in and out of short duration stealth rather than stealth being a permanent”
Clearly? SA has been mostly untouched for 2 years. CLEARLY, if they saw a problem with it, they would have done something about it by now. Additionally, they add the GM trait resilience of shadow which encourages staying in stealth. So maybe you’re blind? Now revealed training in the power line is a different story. But then again, that is a different trait line. Maybe you should focus on those trait line for your offensive playstyle instead of a toughness/healing power trait line… just saying.
“1 shot burst skill "
CLEARLY, you dont play WvW nor understand it.
“If the only way SA is viable in WvW is to sit in stealth for extended periods of time rather than getting those same benefits from engaging your targets, then something is wrong.”
Nothing is wrong. Anet encourages passive play such as healing signet….
(edited by Ajax.5346)
Shadow arts does not need to be removed.
What it does need is to have it’s shift focused from “Sit in stealth for benefits” to “Engage in combat for benefits”.
At the moment, many of the most used SA traits give alot of incentive to sit in stealth for their benefits, regardless whether or not the current situation calls for sitting in stealth. That needs to change, and can be done easily.
Shadow’s Embrace – changed to “Remove 1 condition when you enter stealth. Remove 1 condition when you gain revealed.” Now an SA thief will mitigate conditions by staying in combat and weaving in and out of stealth, not by jumping into stealth and just sitting there.
Patience – I’ll be honest, I don’t have a great suggestion for this one, but it also need to change, partly because it incentivizes sitting in stealth, and partially because it’s buttkitten useless and nobody runs it. Perhaps something along the lines of “All CD’s tick 20% faster while revealed”, or something of the like.
Shadow Rejuvenation – changed to “Heal X when you enter stealth. Heal Y health per second while revealed”. Again, now a thief is healing by weaving in and out of stealth and fighting his opponent instead of by just sitting in stealth doing nothing. X and Y will obviously need to be playtested, since being healed while revealed is more powerful than healing while in stealth.
Resilience of shadow – changed to “Stealth effects you apply reduce incoming damage (30%). When you (and only you, not others) are revealed, reduce incoming damage by 15%.”
There you go – you now how an SA tree that’s useful in PvP and not annoying in WvW.Finally someone with some sense! This would definitely shift the style from defensive to offensive and more active and fun. Love the ideas. You should post these in the balance suggestions forums, or I’ll do it for you :p
Edit: posted it here.
You and evilapprentice are totally idiots. Sorry for the harsh words.
Even with the suggested changes, it would have no impact on pvp and pve but it would nerf WvW thieves. Basically, you are not giving considerations to one part of the game because you focus on a different part, spvp. I can’t imagine thieves running 10/0/6/0/6 for tpvp. Hell, SA isn’t even viable in high lvl tpvp. So, why are we even having this discussion? Basically, the OP got trolled by a SA in hotjoin and QQ’ed.
A) I have no qualms (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/qualms?s=t) about ruining the “Sit in stealth” playstyle. In fact, the express purpose of these suggestions was to completely kill it. It’s poorly designed and should be eradicated from the game entirely. Looking at my suggested changes, WvW players would still get their heals and condition removal as long as they were in combat. It wouldn’t be a nerf, it’d be a shift away from a poorly designed, cheesy playstyle to a fun, well designed playstyle.
B) SA isn’t viable in any level TPvP currently, which was the entirety of the point of my suggestions – to make it viable in TPvP.
We’re having this discussion because we want SA to be viable in both PvP and WvW. It was stated clearly in the post you quoted. I’m not sure how you missed that.
A)I have no qualms (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/qualms?s=t) about ruining the “Sit in stealth” playstyle.
Thank you for letting us know your opinion that you don’t give a kitten about other people playstyle.
B) SA isn’t viable in any level TPvP currently, which was the entirety of the point of my suggestions – to make it viable in TPvP.
That is my whole point. Why suggest subpar changes that really doesn’t change anything?
We’re having this discussion because we want SA to be viable in both PvP and WvW.
By your own admission, you don’t play WvW so I’m going to assume you are not aware of the issue WvW thieves encounter in WvW. How can you even state/suggest changes when you don’t have a clear understanding of that game mode? As I stated before, you want blind nerf to SA for the sake of pvp.
(edited by Ajax.5346)
Shadow arts does not need to be removed.
What it does need is to have it’s shift focused from “Sit in stealth for benefits” to “Engage in combat for benefits”.
At the moment, many of the most used SA traits give alot of incentive to sit in stealth for their benefits, regardless whether or not the current situation calls for sitting in stealth. That needs to change, and can be done easily.
Shadow’s Embrace – changed to “Remove 1 condition when you enter stealth. Remove 1 condition when you gain revealed.” Now an SA thief will mitigate conditions by staying in combat and weaving in and out of stealth, not by jumping into stealth and just sitting there.
Patience – I’ll be honest, I don’t have a great suggestion for this one, but it also need to change, partly because it incentivizes sitting in stealth, and partially because it’s buttkitten useless and nobody runs it. Perhaps something along the lines of “All CD’s tick 20% faster while revealed”, or something of the like.
Shadow Rejuvenation – changed to “Heal X when you enter stealth. Heal Y health per second while revealed”. Again, now a thief is healing by weaving in and out of stealth and fighting his opponent instead of by just sitting in stealth doing nothing. X and Y will obviously need to be playtested, since being healed while revealed is more powerful than healing while in stealth.
Resilience of shadow – changed to “Stealth effects you apply reduce incoming damage (30%). When you (and only you, not others) are revealed, reduce incoming damage by 15%.”
There you go – you now how an SA tree that’s useful in PvP and not annoying in WvW.Finally someone with some sense! This would definitely shift the style from defensive to offensive and more active and fun. Love the ideas. You should post these in the balance suggestions forums, or I’ll do it for you :p
Edit: posted it here.
You and evilapprentice are totally idiots. Sorry for the harsh words.
Even with the suggested changes, it would have no impact on pvp and pve but it would nerf WvW thieves. Basically, you are not giving considerations to one part of the game because you focus on a different part, spvp. I can’t imagine thieves running 10/0/6/0/6 for tpvp. Hell, SA isn’t even viable in high lvl tpvp. So, why are we even having this discussion? Basically, the OP got trolled by a SA in hotjoin and QQ’ed.
(edited by Ajax.5346)
if i had 110% critical damage before ferocity patch and went down to 78% crit damage- how much power would i need to come close to offsetting that loss? Assume it’s a crit and i have 2000 power now.
Assuming your total stats other than power remain the same before and after the crit damage change, you will need 280 more power (2280 total power) to get the same crit damage as before.
BS prior to change vs a 2280 armor target is 5473.684 at 2000 power, 1000 weapon dps, and 260% crit damage.
BS after the change vs a 2280 armor target is 5473.684 at 2280 POWER, 1000 weapon dps, and 228% crit damage.
(edited by Ajax.5346)
I’m a bit confused about certain abilities in this game in regards to damage versus risk. In particular, I want to discuss about Warrior’s 100B, Thief’s PW, and Mesmer’s BF. I don’t want to get into a discussion on whether or not these abiltiies are meta – I want to discuss its’ reward versus risk.
100B Vs PW Vs BF
All of these are channel/stationary high damage skills yet their risk/reward ration are so different. 100B is high risk/high reward skill because you can’t move nor evade attacks while channeling it. On the other hand, PW and BF are low risk/high reward. You can move via teleport and evade all attacks. Additionally, the ability to setup the PW/BF is included with the weapon set.
I’m not a good pvper nor do I spvp much. As a new spvper, I just don’t get it. Maybe one you veteran can help me understand why there is such a difference.
I want my spammable invincibility (stealth) and the 19327917291272937 teleports and stunbreakers thieves have.
I also want the 1983698262393728 evades thieves have too btw.
I want my ranger longbow to not have kitten AoE and have the damage of clusterbomb as well.
I want my ranger’s autoattacks to crit for 3-4k at any range, not just max range, and cleave 3 targets like thief sword and apply weakness.
I also want my rapidfire to be invisible so people can’t reliably dodge it and lose half their health before they see an attack.
Rangers already have most of the things you want…evades, good aoe, spammable invincibility, auto attack that pierce, and RF from stealth after using LB3.