Guild Wars 2

Jjaja.7218:

This is incredibly annoying. Mesmers have the MOST predictable burst out of any profession (yes even above warriors); you can tell just from the amount of clones that are up. What does the Engineer do though? He wastes dodge rolls for whatever reason before the fight even really begins and as far as I can tell, is using no stun breaker/stability/freedom/invulnerability (think WoW arena trinket).

I’m aware that’s Teldo and he’s a famous Engineer from Europe but I don’t think the European scene is up to par with the North American one.

You do realize good Mesmers can have 3 clones up for 80% of the time, can afford to feint shatters (for instance, wasting Diversion when you think they’re Wracking) and time their Cry of Frustration and/or Wrack for when they’re either invisible and the clones surround the enemy (if they’re melee, they’re always chasing it anyways) or the target is out of endurance.

Also, they (and by this i mean we) have a lot of ways to prevent damage, be it by stealthing, porting or simply popping Distortion and /or Blurred Frenzy.

It’s just funny to see some of the claims here, without any idea on what they’re on about. The simple fact that with my Mesmer i manage to stay alive vs 2-3 for a long time (depends on how aggressive i want to be – staying on point, or keeping a distance) with under 1k toughness and 19k HP is proof this is a VERY strong profession. I dare you to live that long on low toughness and vitality with ANY other profession (with the exception of a Thief, ofc).

Finally, claiming NA players are superior to EU ones when there’s no data or event where you can compare them is a desperate argument. I could argue that one American guild on my server is consistently beaten by the lowest of scrubs, but even so, they are hardly representative of the full NA playerbase.

It’s statements like that those makes me feel happy to play on international servers with people from different countries. I’m lucky enough to realize there’s not 1 superior nationality, but that in every country there are only a handful of pros, a bunch of decent players and a LOT of scrubs (Scrubs seem to be the large majority of players, no matter where they’re from, and this is not exclusive to MMOs).

Your geographical location means little in terms of skill. The simple fact that you feel the need to use such a basic argument says a lot about yourself aswell.

Peace out.

Paken Kai.5970:

I can also confirm that it removes one condition on activation and another each pulse of regen.

I, personally, use it for removal of the fear applied by Tequotl and the Claw of Jormag. When timed properly, you can lay it down, walk to the “front” edge and when they fear you, it will be removed before you reach the “back” edge of the spring.

Not to mention, when running dungeons my guild mates like to strafe into my spring to remove the odd condition.

Please actually use a skill before talking about what it can and cannot do. Don’t just use the wiki.

Perfect for the situation you mention but also to make sure you remove or prevent immobilizes. Another reason to use it is that if you use SoR (i usually keep it for those “holy crap” moments when i’m full of conditions or to break a stun and/or immobilize) it’ll stop removing conditions for 60s. Having HS means you don’t have to stay that vulnerable for a full minute.

ShinraGuardian.8053:

Wiki says it doesn’t, and I’ve never seen it remove any condition after the initial activation. The conditions are being removed from you in some other way.

Incorrect. Despite what any wiki says i can confirm that the field keeps removing conditions until it dissipates. It’s not an instant removal, but it removes 1 condition per second.

Da Poolp.6809:

About the condition removal on activation and poison. The direct heal amount is calculate before or after the poison debuff is cured ?

From what i’ve experienced the direct heal is affected by poison, since it heals first and only afterwards it removes conditions. After that, it removes one condition per second, provided you’re on top of the field. This is why i wait for SoR to remove the poison before healing, or i activate it prior to healing when poisoned, depending on the status of my HP.

Merely 1 leap + heal + regen + mitigation from cond removal > Ungent.. With swords improved (which i use), that’s 2 normal leaps. With sword, you leap every 3rd attack so with Qz from pet switching (20s CD with 15 points in BM) that’s a LOT of healing.

As for fighting “all over the place”… it’s just common sense to use the high ground, use stairs to walls as bottlenecks, using houses and corners to los and make sure your team moves as one. If you are all over the place you are doing it wrong afaik. Not claiming it’s always perfect, but i find it way more effective for me and the group.

As for the pet, it’s also healed by HS and since i’m constantly switching for Qz, it’s a non-issue.

Let me just say i’m just trying to give some insight for people that are still finding their fav spec. Not trying to spread a Dogma. Feel free to disagree!

Quarktastic.1027:

Bloodbath.7084:

Wall o’ text

I didn’t say healing spring is bad, I just said it wasn’t as good as troll unguent unless you’re running around in a group. Condition removals are easy enough to come by, so poison isn’t an issue. I personally run with signet of renewal, as it’s a much better condition removal skill, and doubles as a stun breaker.

You can leap through healing spring for an additional heal, but both of the ranger’s leap finishers are on our melee weapons, which most people will agree, are sub-par when compared to our ranged options. I for one, never use melee weapons unless ranged combat isn’t an option (jade shards in the solid ocean fractal for instance), so that extra heal isn’t an option for me, or others who don’t like to melee.

You also have to stand in the healing spring for the full 15 seconds to get that 2-3k heal from the regeneration applications.

I didn’t claim anyone was telling it was bad, i’m just discussing how the perception that Ungent is better than HS is wrong. And it is. I know you need to stay on it 15s to get the full regen, but leaping does make up for that difference in HpS.

As for not using melee weapons… i’ll just say this. If you don’t use melee weapons in tPvP and WvW (heck, i mostly just use melee weapons on PvE aswell) you are missing out on the best Ranger setups this game has to offer. Personally i use sword for tPvP (best weapon we have, dispite what anyone says) couple with SB and GS coupled with LB in WvW.

Not using melee weapons is a big fail in my book.

Luriyu.6873:

still a fan of troll ungent regardless. shorter cool down and you can’t get rid of the boon with the highest straight up healing we have.

empathic bond just allows us to free up our utilities for more traps or survival skills.

The problem with Troll Ungent is that it won’t save you from the most dire situations and it easily becomes a weak heal with poison – with Spring you can simply remove poison before the heal portion, heal for 5k, then leap through it for ~2k heal and in 2s you’ve healed that same as you would’ve with Ungent in 10s, without risking it being reduced by poison, AND get up to 3k regen (numbers subject to change, if you’re using full toughness+healing gear and spec, it’s even better). 8k on a 20s CD is appealing, but the reality is that it’s a subpar heal.

Fjandi.2516:

All true, but in reality in hot join spvp i prefer troll unguent. Hot join as it is now is a zergfest so mobility is a must, also in hot join half of the ppl don’t even know how the skill works or what a combo field is, so it will hardly help others.

I’m talking about proper PvP done with PvPers, not some random hot join that serves for little else than trying stuff and/or farming people. But yeah, if you’re on hot join expecting people to realize there’s a field up it’s too much to ask. :>

Obsidian.1328:

In a zerg yes, but in party size and smaller it just doesn’t cut it. Perhaps it’s a difference of W3 styles. I don’t fly with the groups much but prefer to run supply, escort yaks, and see to the keep/tower defenses. I’m lucky to have 2-3 friendlies around me. As such, HS doesn’t cut it.

So in any scenario, no.

You couldn’t be more mistaken. Since the 5 player limit nerf (or fix, imo) it’s more effective to run HS on smaller groups than in what you call a “zerg”. Before that, waterfields were simply OP in big groups. 15s of blasting + condition removal was too much. Now it’s less than optimal, but still useful.

Unless, ofc, your friends think they’re playing a game other than GW2.

When i’m doing smallscale WvW i can save my entire party with my waterfield since you can create a bottleneck, have your mates blast, regen and save CDs for condition removal. It’s all about knowing when to drop it and to play as a true team, and not simply 5 ppl playing in the same area. Honestly, i wouldn’t use any other heal in any situation. The difference to the other heals is so noticeable i find it surprising to see this many people unaware of it’s potential.

Quarktastic.1027:

Not sure if you know this, but healing spring only lasts for 15 seconds. For anything but running in a competent party, Troll unguent is better. It heals for double the amount of healing spring over 10 seconds, and has a 5 second shorter cooldown.

Healing spring does remove conditions and provide regeneration, but you need to be standing in it to get those effects. When you’re kiting for your life is typically when you need to pop a healing skill, and healing spring isn’t much help then.

Allies can blast it for an AoE heal, but you cannot, as rangers are the only class without a blast finisher.

So, in a competent group, healing spring is nice….but I rarely see competent groups. Healing spring should never be used while running solo, ever.

Yes, it was my mistake typing but if you read it again i do say 30s waterfield per min, which is what you get (15s with 30s CD). If you do that simple math yes, Ungent looks better, but in reality Ungent can have it’s heal denied by -33% (i for one tend to keep my enemies poisoned) while you can remove poison, heal and then stay unpoisoned for 15s with HS. If you’re kiting for your life you can drop it (5k heal), then leap away (with sword or GS – 2k heal) and you get away with 7k more health without having to hope no one reaches you while you heal up with Ungent. Also, you can drop it and go back and forth, entering it to remove conditions and get a regen and leap as often as you can, providing way more survivabilty while staying in combat.

Again, you can’t blast but you can leap.

And while i’m talking about teamplay (it’s the way the meta of this game works), i can still take full advantage of it while playing solo. Honestly, i think people have not realized how incredibly good this skill is.

Zeoli.3402:

On my Thief, i used to spot water fields and blast them with my Cluster Bomb for an AoeE~2.4k heal. I also must point at the drakes which has a blast finisher, a bit unpredictable and unreliable, however we do have one! :P

I have gone back to my ranger for the more ranged gameplay

This. I usually coordinate with my thieves so they have full initiative and blast my party to full HP and keep it that way for the full 15s, for the other team’s frustration. Very, very powerful.

Obsidian.1328:

Bloodbath.7084:

You do realize you can drop a field that removes conditions, heals, gives you regen and stays there for 30s (meaning all you have to do is leap through it to heal, walk over it to remove conditions/get regeneration). It’s also on a 30s CD which means for every minute you got 30s of condition removal. It’s called Healing Spring and it’s your best heal, by far.

That, coupled with Signet of Renewal which takes conditions every 10s (and the 60s CD where you can just send to your pet, then switch pets and get Qz if you’re specced for it) gives you decent enough condition removal to be effective.

Also, if you spec 30 in BM you can get your pet to constantly keep removing conditions from you.

It’s not perfect, but it’s hardly useless.

Healing Spring is very awesome for PvE, but the supremacy of mobility in W3 almost takes it out of the equation. Besides, popping that spring basically paints a giant target for enemy aoe’s.

Surely you jest.

You don’t need to stay in the field for it to heal you. Besides the fact that allies can blast it for heals, can step on it for condition removal and leap through it to heal themselves, it’s CD and heal+regen makes it EASILY the best heal a ranger has. In any scenario. Period.

You do realize you can drop a field that removes conditions, heals, gives you regen and stays there for 30s (meaning all you have to do is leap through it to heal, walk over it to remove conditions/get regeneration). It’s also on a 30s CD which means for every minute you got 30s of condition removal. It’s called Healing Spring and it’s your best heal, by far.

That, coupled with Signet of Renewal which takes conditions every 10s (and the 60s CD where you can just send to your pet, then switch pets and get Qz if you’re specced for it) gives you decent enough condition removal to be effective.

Also, if you spec 30 in BM you can get your pet to constantly keep removing conditions from you.

It’s not perfect, but it’s hardly useless.

Jjaja.7218:

Profession Balance: (Obviously every profession could use bug fixes and tweaks)
Guardian: Very Strong
Elementalist: Strong
Thief: Slightly Strong
Mesmer: Balanced
Necromancer: Balanced
Ranger: Balanced
Warrior: Slightly Weak
Engineer: Weak

You can’t base your perception of balance on your experience as a necro only. It is irrelevant how many QP you got, if you only play 1-2 professions you can’t possibly understand what’s balanced or not. I regularly play 5 profs (keep one slot for tryouts) and still i feel there’s more i needed to learn from prof X or Y. The classes i play most are Ranger, Mesmer and Elementalist (kinda been slacking on my guardian and thief lately). I must say, i strongly disagree with your acessment. This is my opinion:

Mesmer: VERY strong.

Yes, i used caps there on purpose. Anyone that does not see this as the very best prof needs to properly play one. In the hands of a good PvPer – and i think of myself as one, with over 17 years of PvP on all genres on my belt – it’s a mean killing machine. And support machine. And escape artist. So powerful it hurts.

Guardian: Very Strong

Not a mesmer, but still a very powerful profession with a wide range of viable specs.

Thief: Very Strong

Properly played thieves are not only very dangerous finishers with huge burst but also amazing at evading/harassing and closing distances aswell as very good stompers and rezzers. Anyone that thinks they’re not top notch needs some serious lessons on combat dynamics.

Elementalist: Strong

While the Ele bunker specs (and downed state) are a bit too strong at the moment they do tend to be dead rather quickly when specced otherwise. Can be deadly vs some combos but facing a player that knows the class they can be easy prey as DPS. Hybrid specs can be a real menace in the right hands though.

Necromancer: Balanced

Necros still have some issues that need to be addressed but overall it’s a class that’s very close to being balanced.

Ranger: Balanced

Before the latest patch i’d disagree but from my experience since the 14th the Ranger has indeed been buffed to a point that i’d say it’s close to being balanced. A lot of issues still with pet pathing, bugged abilities and perhaps the class that needs the more focus to play and be successful with as pure DPS.

Warrior: Wouldn’t call it weak, but a bit limited at the moment. Their ability to quickly shift the weight of battles can be decisive when played properly but i’ll admit, could do with a bit more variety.

Engineer: Since the latest patch i’ve faced some really dangerous Engis and since i don’t play the class, i’ll leave it to whoever does to judge.

This weapon is a must in sPVP since you can easily escape with 2, unselect, leap away, evade/poison and deliver a nice burst with Qz. However, the “root” portion of the second attack can hinder you if you’re unlucky or you play with auto-attack toggled on. Also, when using quickness it can be a pain to try to dodge while attacking at melee range. I feel that dodging should override kick but even at as it is, it’s a very fine weapon.

Pair it with warhorn (for buffs/birds vs stealthers), torch (for condition-based builds, in which case the sword serves mostly as a poisoner and escape tool) or dagger (for extra evading and cripple) depending on your playstyle.

In WvW, however, i don’t advise using it since the kick can prevent you from dodging at decisive moments and get you killed. For large scale i rather sacrifice the sword’s DPS and use GS instead, for mobility and some blocking.

Have fun playing ninja ranger. Best kind there is!

True, Ranger is not an “easy” class. I regularly play with my Mesmer, Ele, Guardian and Ranger in tPvP and it is indeed the class that takes the most concentration and that has less options to revert from mistakes made. However, before the patch i could only run tanky builds to be successful against good players and now i feel that i’m way more dangerous.

Right now i’m running with 15-20-20-0-15 with shortbow and sword+horn and i’m just killing stuff left and right while able to escape quickly with sword 2 and lightning reflexes. Using wolf for CC and jaguar for dps. Also using the signet to remove conditions and break stuns and Qz. Finishing people off or saving my mates while changing pet every 20s rocks, now that my SB does decent damage (mix crit and cond damage).

I admit, playing my Mesmer it’s way easier to kill and avoid but i must say my Ranger is now pretty viable.

Yes, there are some issues to be address but overall i’m happy with the latest patch.
A nice step in the right direction.

This is not the problem that has happened some weeks ago where you’d get stuck while spawning in PVP. Different matter and i’ve searched this forum for this specific issue, to no avail.

I have had this issue since launch and have submitted a ticket for it a while ago, but since there’s been no feedback and despite my best efforts to solve it i still suffer from it.

I randomly get stuck on loading screens (changing zones, changing sPvP maps, etc), never inside the same zone. The wheel will keep on turning and if if i leave the client active (i’ve tried) i’ll never get even a Disconnect error. It’ll stay like that forever.

I also have problems connecting, often having to try multiple times after failing to connect or simply getting stuck after pressing Login. This, i think, is symptomatic of something happening in port 80 comms. I suspect (not sure though) that each time i load a zone the client needs to negotiate with the login server to sort out overflows, servers, etc, and once it fails to connect a first time it just hangs there indefinitely.

What i’ve done to fix this problem since launch (on Windows 7 x64 atm):

- Repaired the game numerous times;
- Switched NICs to check for a fault in the one i use most (on-board NIC);
- Uninstalled the drivers for both my NICs, and reinstalled using both Win7’s default and updated ones;
- Uninstalled, then reinstalled all my TCP/IP protocols, both v4 and v6;
- Checked my software firewall (Kaspersky Pure) and my router’s firewall for any type of restriction to all ports used by the game, aswell as game privileges in my security policies;
- Updated Windows 7 to the latest build.

I also tried running the game with all non-essential applications turned off (including Kaspersky) and i still get the same problem.

Weird thing is, there are days in which it happens to me once, and others like today, that at every 2 loadings i’m being forced to Alt+F4, restart my client, try 5-6 times until i manage to log in only to get stuck again on the first loading and having to repeat the process.

During this time i have no loss of connectivity on any other ports but 80. And i’m at a loss right now.

Needless to say, this problem greatly impacts my gaming experience, as i often refrain from doing sPVP due to the constant restarts needed, and have cost my tPVP teams some wins since i couldn’t enter in time for match starts. Also, the new fractals pose a new problem, since if i disconnect, all progress is lost.

Any assistance in this manner would be appreciated.

P.S.: Disk usage also drops to 0% when this happens, my OS is tidy, my disks are defraged and clean, and my memories are all good. This hardly seems like a problem with those components.

Diage

Firstly, let me say that i’m a bit tipsy so if i fail to make sense, let me edit this post in the morning. :>

I went ahead and +1’d your latest post. Very interesting read and likely the most comprehensive response i got in this thread. I did not read much about this game before i started playing, mainly because i wanted to keep the surprise factor in, so i’m not fully aware of ANet intentions regarding PVP in the game. I completely get your points, yet my initial opposition remains. Not that i think they’ll overall the entire game, but because i still believe there’s time and room to improve on what we currently have.

And we absolutely agree, if this was what they wanted as an end result, i also think it might not have been the greatest idea. I still give them kudos for risking a change on the whole MMO panorama.

Finally, let me just address your words regarding their balancing focus being made around tpvp. What me worries about that is that if they’re focusing on such a specific setting , it will be hard to balance fights around radically different tpvp scenarios (maps) which i think are really needed to vary the types of matches and strats used. This is essential to make tPVP fresh and fun for the months to come.

As i said in an earlier post, it’s always a best approach to focus combat balance around general lines and evolve from there than to built it around specific situations and risk huge imbalances due to unforseen circumstances.

I trully thank you for your input, in a way it gave some insight into how this game was developed.

RapBreon

I do understand where you come from, but while you have valid points, let me remind you that we’re suggesting a suicide that it’s not instant. Perhaps it could have an initial CD with the same time as it takes to bleed out normally, so there would be no abuses.

Regarding bunker specs, i didn’t mention them in regards to downed state, but as an example of a kind of mechanic that makes combat less dynamic. This can be both a good, and a bad thing, but it in the end, all that matters is how the gaming experience “feels”.

RapBreon

Trust me, i fully understand what you are saying regarding planning around downed state, and player stalling. You fail to mention, however, that all the timing/stalling can be done without having to implement downed state. It’s not exclusive to GW2. Also, it’s always a bad idea to plan games around “ideal” scenarios, and a good idea to make them flexible. Right now, this game is very static exactly because of downed state and bunker builds. And while i disagree with the first, i see the latter as a more legit way of stalling.

Regarding your final statement, you should have read my post thoroughly. It’s exactly to avoid this kind of abuse that a suicide button would be implemented (or one of it’s alternatives being discussed in this thread). You can seriously hamper the opposing team by ignoring ressers (which, admittedly is the downed player’s fault most of the times, by still trying to heal) and forcing them out of the battle or as much as 30s (think down time + bad luck on repop timer + running back) which i think it’s too much. One of the alternatives would be to diminish the overall HP pool (which would be messy) or simply increasing the bleed-out speed/damage.

And yes, preventing the kind of abuse you describe has also been discussed here, which is why there should be a minimum time to be in downed state before dying, when not being touched by enemies.

mjharrison

I wouldn’t go so far to say it’s the worse thing ever, but coming from 20+ years of gaming like yourself i’d also have it removed. But since i also know MMOs (and forums) i know the kind of shizzlestorm that could generate. Which is why we’re discussing alternatives.

Diage

I’m sorry but what you’re describing is not action oriented PVP but RTS. In RTS, all strategy and skill is focusing on positioning and knowing when to attack and when to retreat. In an action based PVP game, you have this same element to a smaller scale, but you also have the element of skill when fighting people, otherwise they might aswell give you a single attack button and tell you this game is about getting numerical advantage at objectives, which i don’t think ArenaNet did.

The point capture system present in SPVP is not new, or even innovative, so i fail to see your point regarding a specific way this game is meant to be played. You yourself say they wanted the player to play how they wanted to, but then you seem to be fixed in a single playstyle which adapts to the specific mechanics of the game. Which is it?

Ok, i guess your next paragraph answers that. You believe that the skill of the players should be dismissed in order to favor player assignment at different locations. I’m sorry mate, but i fail to see why on earth would you want that. It’s not what i get from the skillset available on all characters either, and i’d have to see feedback from ArenaNet confirming this was their intention. From my experience it’s the combination of strategy (positioning/movement) and execution (the fights themselves) that makes PVP in MMOs fun.

Also, i did not say that GW2 was broken, or anything of the sort. I’m merely trying to discuss a change in a game mechanic that i feel defeats it’s purpose, despite acknowledging that it is indeed an original idea. And casual players are the ones that suffer from it most, considering they will usually get into unorganized pugs which are more likely to be outmatched both in skill and strategy. That means that a casual player, even if he knows what he’s doing, is likely to end up facing 2 opponents and while i believe he should still be able to win if he outskills his 2 opponents, you seem do defend that his only choice is to run away and expect randoms to help him. That, or expect both his opponents to have a low IQ. This is hardly casual friendly, and trust me, i’ve always been concerned about casual play, since i have many friends that only play sporadically.

Finally let me tell you that while being harassed by GW2 fanboys for 2 years (my friends, in case you were wondering) i always told them i’d wait and see, and didn’t want to get overhyped over an MMO. The first video of this game i saw was while downloading the client. And my impression after playing for a month is very, very positive. There’s some bugs here and there and some mechanics i might disagree with, but overall i’m pretty satisfied. I didn’t bring the game as whole to the discussion, you just did. Liking it, however, does not mean i have to suck up to every single aspect of it.

I trully feel this specific mechanic hinders PVP in this game, and it’s because i plan on keep playing that i’m trying to discuss it openly and in a civilized manner (as you and the majority of people are doing, which is always refreshing). I don’t think the concept of the game would change radically without downed state, or with a kittened downed state for that matter. I trully don’t. And if i wanted to discuss the whole SPVP philosophy i’d have to talk about ninjaing mobs with 1 hit, the lack of variety in the types of scenarios aswell as other stuff which i’m not mentioning because this is not the aim of this post. I’m focusing on what i think it’s a major problem, which has already drawn people away from PVP. Doesn’t mean most people hate it, it just means that there is room for improvement, and i’m trying to contribute towards that end.

Regarding your suggestion, it’s another good alternative (accelarating bleed-out). Even with no one hitting you, getting dead takes a bit too long right now, specially if you’re being abused by the enemy team. The objective here is to diminish the minimum time you’re down to prevent abusing, yet making sure people can’t abuse getting dead too soon as you’ve pointed out on another post.

Fildydarie:

The argument against letting you port immediately is to avoid abuse, at least the way i see it. By adding a cast time we’re thinking about preventing people from simply porting as soon as they fall, after delaying others in an object and allowing for a quzick release.

Sadly, regarding your statement on stomping, not all classes have stability on demand. While stomping with a guardian is a no-brainer, doing it with necro or ranger (2m CD) is risky at best in the midst of battle.

Diage

You fail to see the point in this argument and seem to assume we’re saying killing people in 1v2 should be easy. It shouldn’t, and in no game is it easier to kill 2 than it is to face only 1 opponent. You state obvious facts, such as “sending 2 people hinders your team elsewhere” yet fail to recognize that by having this downed state mechanic it actually rewards people that send 2 people to kill a single node defender while leaving a high survivability player to defend theirs. It further ensures their chances of coming out victorious, defeating the purpose of PVP, which is to leave room for unexpected outcomes, despite the odds.

It might seem insane to you, but it’s hardly a defenseless argument. On the contrary. What this mechanics allows is for subpar players to be able to easily defeat any single player, provided they have a numerical advantage.

It’s also silly that you seem to think that 1 guy being better than 2 should mean he has to be able to kill them twice. In a 1v2 fight, be it an MMO or FPS, there’s already an implicit advantage which means that any single individual that beats two enemies simultaneously has to be better than both. While one might be a noob and die sooner than he should, the other still has had time to dps, and face a single opponent that has wasted CDs and HP in order to kill the first.

That is without a downed state. Introduce downed state as was implemented in GW2, and you’re only making things easier for the ones that already have the upper hand. It’s counter-intuitive and, from my perspective, a design flaw.

It’s not crazy or deluded, it trully is one of the biggest problems with this game’s PVP atm.

Also, you don’t need to say people are nuts to argument against their ideas. I’ve learned a long time ago to respect the opinion of others, no matter how wrong they might seem.

We disagree with rally aswell. Hardly the biggest issue (actually find it adds depth and an incentive to res/stomp players in the current state of pvp).

Finally, regarding the suicide button, you can see Aga made a different purposal in which he address exactly the abuse you talk about (which i had explained to the previous poster in this same post, before reading yours). And we agree, it shouldn’t be abused, but people shouldn’t also be able to abuse downed players by letting them just idle there bleeding out, transforming 5v5 in 3v5 for a couple mins (add to the time spent downed + potential respawn timer + time to get back into the fight).

The whole purpose of the suicide button idea is to address this issue, but since we’re discussing the possibility, how would you address the problem with abusing downed enemy players?

Vorpal

Rangers also have insane DPS while downed, considering they can change pets and use their abilities while lying on the floor. One of the reasons normalizing this damage would help with the problem

Aga:

Good point regarding cast time on suicide button. I fully agree that it would help prevent abusing it.

I do think that the (1) ability is cool in PVE, but at least they could tone down the damage, as some others suggested.

AnthonyZdravko:

Yep, basically it makes 1v2 fights harder than they would normally already be. Which sometimes does frustrate me a little bit.

Dayne:

I didn’t mention it in my initial post since it was a bit off-topic, but i also think that using pet abilities is a bit too strong.

I disagree however about the warrior ability to get up for another 15s. I would personally trade it for the pet res on the Ranger. Half the time it’s bugged anyways.

spoonfoy:

Basically we’re talking about the same thing. The time it takes to go from 100% to 0% while downed and i think we agree, that needs to be reduced.

Normalizing damage to a small amount (i’d go with something like 2% hp in players, to account for bigger hp pools) could be an alternative with no damage at all, though personally i’d rather have zero damage while downed.

Regarding the different profession skills, i’m focusing on group play circumstances and not 1v1 while both downed. I don’t think most abilites are OP, i simply dislike a mechanic that invalidates the time and effort took to get someone to 0 hp, by making you fight 2 HP pools or risk dying stomping, if you have unequal numbers . Of course, in it’s current state, there are some classes with big advantages and some that could use a buff. I am not, however, a big fan of some of the abilities put in (such as vengeance and mist form to name a couple), and while it’s only my opinion, i believe they only add to the whole downed state problem.

I’ve identified the potential problems with downstate the first day i started playing GW2, and sadly i was not wrong. And no, i don’t need to learn to play or to roll a FOTM class in order to play “properly”. It is an original idea with bad implementation, that’s all.

I must say that i’ve been playing hardcore pvp for over a decade and i do extensive testing with different classes before forming an opinion on a new game mechanic. So far i’ve played a generous amount of tournaments with Ranger, Guardian, Thief, Necro and Mesmer, all with different toolsets at their disposal while downed or stomping someone. I find that while Thieves, Mesmers and Guardians have it easy when stomping someone, i pity Rangers and Necros. As far as stomping Thieves and Mesmers, that’s no big deal, as long as you understand how their skills work, and you realize that you can still hit them while they’re invisible.

The main issue here, dismissed by fanboys and/or people that clearly have no idea about balancing stuff in PVP, is uneven fights. Yes, it sucks to have a stealthed thief stomping you before anyone can get you up, but it is my opinion that while that is easily fixed (by not allowing it, the same way necros on Lich form can’t stomp), it won’t be so easy to balance what happens when you’re playing 1v2.

I have managed to succeed in some 1v2 fights. Mostly due to luck or the inability of my oponnents, i’ll admit. I can however recognize that it greatly burdens who has numerical disadvantage, which in PVP is kind of silly. People with more numbers shouldn’t have an additional mechanic that further improves their chances to win.

Nothing is more frustrating than managing to outskill 2 ppl, only to be killed by rocks being thrown by someone that is supposed to be gravely wounded. And while i understand some classes have it easier (heck, with my guardian i just stand on top of them spamming and interrupting anyone that tries to res – which won’t really work if they have a clue about what they’re doing and pop aegis/stability), others lack such survivabilty and interrupt options. On my Ranger, for instance, i can only gain stability by using my elite, which is cast and on a 2m CD. Add that to the fact that i can still be rooted (by eles) and my target can get up (warrior, engineer) or stealth (mesmer and thief) and suddently to finish off someone that took me 20-30s to down, i’m forced to be at the mercy of his mate for another 10, or chose to ignore the downed player and focus on his companion, usually when i’m under 30% hp, many CDs spent and getting hit by rocks. It’s not fun, it’s not clever and it’s not even close to balanced.

This same mechanic has drove away 80% of my PVP team, which have played with me on a number of MMO and FPS. Not because they didn’t understand how to mitigate the effects of the downed state, but because they feel (as i do) that it ruins this game’s dynamic in SPVP. It’s just an opinion, i realize that, but one that is shared by most experienced gamers i know from this, and other games.

My suggestion would be to either remove it in tournaments (which i don’t think will happen) or revamp the entire downed state skill set. Here’s my 2c on the subject:

- Remove damage dealing abilities. Throwing rocks that do the same damage as arrows and swords makes no sense in my perspective.

- Increase the rate in which you bleed out while downed.

- Remove invisibility/porting/getting up while downed. If you are on the verge of death, you should barely have the strength to be alive, let alone behave like a demigod.

- Change (1) to an AoE unblockable interrupt with a high CD, so you can actually stop the first stomping attempt.

- Change (2) to a “Suicide” skill, in which you instantly die. You could also add an AE condition to this, but it’s somewhat arguable.

- Change (3) so that it heals you for 50% of your hp every 8-10s. This would allow you to eventually res up by yourself if all enemies are dead, or you are left alone. Not meant to heal you up while getting hit.

- Heal ability (4) should not actually heal, but just stop you from bleeding out. Think of it as a kind of “Hanging by a thread” or “Waiting for res” mode.

It is my opinion that all classes should have the same downed state abilities, and despite acknowledging that it might be difficult to implement in a technical level, this should be different for PVE and PVP. I for one don’t think the current downed state is that bad in WvW. It’s in SPVP that i find it most annoying.

What are your ideas for improving this mechanic?

P.S.: If possible, i’d like people that do think it’s all good as it is to be constructive about it. Your opinion is, of course, also valid.