Showing Posts For Bnol.8732:
I honestly don’t see anything wrong with a burst heavy meta. It’s not like anyone is stopping you from speccing burst, just mirror the other team if you’re so upset about how they spec.
Fast paced PVP requires much more skill than slow paced PVP where you’re in no danger of dying. Look at an FPS. It doesn’t take more than a second to kill someone in 99% of the FPS out there, and they’re considered some of the most competitive video games of all time.
Even an RTS like Starcraft is incredibly fast paced. The top players have literally 300+ actions per minute. How can you even hope to approach that skill cap in an MMO when fights are slow and take literally 60+ seconds to get a single kill?
And relying on king of the hill/capture modes is just a cop out. There’s nothing unskilled about being better than your opponent at a deathmatch, especially when you have access to exactly the same classes, skills, and stats as the enemy.
People that cling to “objective” as the only viable playstyle are just trying to cover up for sucking at direct conflict and not having the speed/reaction time/twitch skills to beat an enemy 1v1.
Pace is one factor to measure skill. Certainly, being able to react and make the right decisions separates good players from bad, but APM (especially at the 300+ level) is not a good measure of skill, especially considering some players that just spam click unnecessarily. Fight length has no bearing on how much skill is required. Honestly, longer fights in which you need to consistently make the right decisions show more skill than fights that just end on the first mistake made.
Using your RTS example, having burst as the only viable builds is just like having every game be some sort of rush (‘ling/proxy/etc.) being the only viable SC2 strategy. Not allowing for any mid or late game strategies. It wouldn’t be very interesting. Those strategies should have a place, forcing people to be aware and able to counter them, but they should not be the only/best way to win. Just as burst should have a place, but should not be the only way to build.
I am not sure why you think objectives somehow reduce the skill in PVP. You still need to win fights to secure objectives, and generally the team that wins the most fights wins the match. But objectives do allow more strategies for winning and alter the decision making (e.g. use knockback to neutralize a point, instead of to finish someone) when compared to team death match.
It’s not fun waiting… but it’s a user issue. If everyone hits ready there is no wait. There needs to be a little time to grab a drink or whatever. The issue is people don’t hit ready when they are ready, that’s what needs to be fixed. We need ANet to fix stupid people.
But it would be helped to have the default state be ready, and having 10-15 seconds to click not ready when you enter if you do actually need more time. There have been many times when people just forget to click ready, and even when they see ready up they sometimes don’t realize it is them.
I think the free tournaments should have very short timers (1-2 minutes) especially after the first round, because even if someone in your team comes late you aren’t really losing anything, other than potentially wasting your team’s time if you lose, which can be handled better within the team. Paid tourneys can be a bit longer (2-4 minutes) because the wait-time between matches will likely be less as the matches will be a bit close in skill level, especially with a ladder/ranking system.
So it is balanced that you must build your character and your strategy around defeating guardians?
This is false logic. Really you could supplant guardians with any bunker class. And YES, you should have at least one bunker-buster character in an organized team build.
And yes, if you’re seeing a trend in the meta you should build to counter that trend if you want to play successfully.
My point was you can’t supplant guardians as the bunker class, because they are the superior bunker, and also within the same spec can provide solid support with retal/stability for when it is a team fight. I don’t find having to take a guardian counter (not a bunker counter) to be fun gameplay or an interesting meta, particularly when the counter-class/build to guardians (Condi Necro) has many problems and weaknesses, that you are not getting a lot of return in bringing it, granted we shall see how Necros do with the bug fixes.
Yes, you should have to have a bunker, and your should have to have a bunker-buster. But it should be able to be done equally as well with other classes, but it isn’t. It is just easier, more effective, and less damage/support is given up on a guardian than the other bunkers.
CC counters thief DPS builds hard, but people are too busy building as much damage as possible. Thief has a very low amount of condition removal and break stuns when compared to other classes, and people just refuse to admit this. Thief is a winner in terms of burst vs. burst builds, and you can’t expect the game to adapt to your playstyle simply because the thief class is beating you in 1v1 when he is the counter to your build.
Guardians lack mostly any chasing utility or running away utility. This means they’re completely vulnerable to kiting and conditions (although they do have a decent amount of condition removals). Obviously if it’s a Retaliation oriented build, they’re going to be dominating glass cannon builds (which is what like 95% of the playerbase is building right now).
Mesmers don’t really deal a lot of damage. If they’re pure glass cannon, they’re easy to kill. Honestly, the only thing I think is even wrong with Mesmers is Moa Transformation. Ten seconds is just too long for any sort of transformation or CC that you can’t get out of.
This game is rather balanced, but people are too busy using one build in sPVP that they fail to realize all classes have a counter, just like intended. If you’re losing to burst classes, try building condition damage, vitality, and HP rather than power, precision and critical damage. You’ll notice a pretty large difference.
But those things that the class lacks, they don’t need in their role in a team game.
A thief is built to be a roamer, which means they come in later to team fights (both offensive or defensive), or initiate and resolve 1v1s when the rest of the team is accounted for. Their whole purpose is to be mobile and finish fights quickly. This they do better than any other class, and they also have the advantage of having steal/burst for mob steals, Z-axis mobility, and stealth to be able to disengage fights quickly. Thieves need a change to their initiative mechanic, because it its current form it just encourages spam, as you just utilize the highest initiative to damage ability for your build.
A guardian does not need to chase, nor should the guardian ever be running as the point defender. There are plenty of LOS objects for a Guardian to force someone towards them, and Guardians usually run a decent amount of condi removal as a point defender. If you are not contesting the point then the guardian is doing its job. Kiting/Condi damage will allow the point to be reinforced. They are the best point defender, and the problem really is with their “passive” damage output from Retaliation, because of the high uptime. Further, a guardian gives support to team fights as well.
Mesmers bring a lot of utility to group fights, but also have great 1v1 capability. Mesmers don’t even really have to spec or give up personal output to bring a lot of strong utility. Moa is not even the most powerful elite (especially since guardian book was nerfed). Time Warp is a much better elite skill, as it cannot be blocked/dodged and it swings a team fight more than Moa, even though Moa can be quite frustrating. Mesmers are strong even without portal/treb gimmicks.
I actually agree that the game is rather balanced. But, certain classes do need slight tweaks. The problem with your solution of building tanky or building for conditions, however, is that the game encourages these higher dps builds at least for a majority of your team. If you cannot clear a node faster than the spawn timers/reinforcements then you won’t get anywhere, and all the other team needs is one person to deny you the point. Finishing fights quickly is paramount, as you can mobilize your forces elsewhere, teams that get bogged down in protracted fights usually lose. Further the mobs (both Lord and Forest) encourage quick kills as any protracted fight can result in a steal or defend, and you want power based damage for killing the treb (once they fix the portal/treb business). You only need a couple of durable members to hold your nodes.
You didn’t get the point either. Even there’s a matchmaking existing if the player pool is gonna be the same then you changed nothing. This is a new game and most of the players are still getting used to it or just trying stuffs or maybe they take time to mature. There are fast learners and slow learners. Add to the pool the talented ones which most likely is the guild that you faced. Development of the meta takes time and it warrants that all efficient possible builds are fielded and are tried and tested. Now, only ther flavors are being played and there are still lots of build combinations that are not yet made.
Except for the fact that you will face higher skilled teams more often because of a matchmaking/ranking system.
I hear “guardians are over powered because they are too defensive” which I assume doesn’t mean people are getting solo destroyed by one (unless they are bad), but more likely that the guardian was able to hold the player off until more of their team members arrived – at which point said player got nuked. Working as intended. Guardians are extremely susceptible to bleeds and conditions and until more players take the meta game into consideration when choosing their spec (which will likely always feel less rewarding choice in hot join) then there will always be specs that go more commonly un-countered.
So it is balanced that you must build your character and your strategy around defeating guardians?
If a guardian, or any class, has such a 1v1 advantage that you must send 2 players to reliably eliminate and capture the point (regardless of if the Guardian can kill you, as his job is just to keep the point), then you are at a disadvantage everywhere else.
That is fine to have that role in 5v5, but the problem is that it is done much easier and more reliably by a Guardian than any other class. Any other class trying to bunker has a lot less margin for error, yet they do not gain any advantages when they do play at a high skill level.
No single class should be able to dictate your build/strategy.
This is all I can think about while I read this…
X class is greater than Y class at A. Y class is greater than X class at B. Y class complains and is buffed to be just as strong as X at A. So now what happens? X class must be buffed to be as good as Y at B. Now you have 2 identical classes. Sounds like fun.
I view the problem more as class Z, that is really not the ideal for A, B, or C, not having a place on a team when you need A/B/C.
There is also the problem of class X is only good at A, so can only ever play A, where Class Y is good at B or C making it is more desirable to learn to play Class Y, and it is harder to strategize against class Y.
I would probably say play a tanky guardian. This will allow you to survive a long time, and you are less likely to get focused. This will allow you to get used to PVP and what the other classes can do