Showing Posts For Chiros.6724:
Sigh. I really do need to stop reading these forums. . . .
I said your earlier response was such a gross over-simplification that it should be criminal. That saying does not mean I called you a criminal.
For example, “That cake was so delicious it should be criminal!”
That does not mean I called the cake a criminal.
. . .
My God. I really had to explain that? I’m bowing out of this thread for obvious reasons now.
If you don’t see the difference between jokingly saying “something delicious is so good it should be criminal” and using hyperbole to insultingly tell someone you think they’re wrong then I don’t know what to say. They’re both hyperbole but used with very a different intent. Then again, maybe you meant that I’m as delicious as cake. I’ll take that as a compliment. However I want to make it clear (and bring this back to the topic at hand in a roundabout way) that, although I was grateful for the compliment, I neither expected it nor did I feel entitled to it.
To OP: I’m sorry that this argument has derailed your thread and I won’t be contributing anything more to the argument.
(edited by Chiros.6724)
“It’s not a requirement, but something of a courtesy.”
Ardenwolfe, I agree with this sentiment and have said so several times throughout this thread. My issue is with people that seem to think that they are owed a tip for a port and that a thank you isn’t enough. If someone is selling a port then I’ll gladly pay. If someone gives me a gift which wasn’t really a gift (they expect money for the port they put down) then that’s the issue I’ve been talking about.
“Which is pretty much what you did earlier with your sarcastic post.”
I responded sarcastically to your post calling me a criminal for stating that feeling entitled to tips for ports is wrong. I responded to nonsense with nonsense. You don’t get to take the high ground on that one. Your misplaced condescension isn’t appreciated and says more than you intended.
I have strongly disagreed with people in this thread. I have told people when I thought they were wrong and have described why I think they are wrong. I’m not telling people they’re criminals because they disagree with me.
You know your response just proved my point, don’t you?
Have you read the whole thread? I have a mesmer. I port people all the time. I also go out of my way to help people out on any other character I’m playing. When someone helps me out I’m grateful and I thank them or even try to help them in return. The difference is that I don’t feel entitled to a tip when I help someone. I do it because helping people in this game is fun. It makes me feel good and it makes the other person feel good. If I get a tip that’s cool. Yay! But I don’t pout when I don’t get them because I didn’t expect one in the first place. I also don’t think someone doesn’t appreciate what I did for them because they just thanked me instead of tipping me. At this point I can’t even tell if you’re trolling or if you really don’t get this.
Just about any activity in the game helps you get achievements. Do you tip people who go out of the way to rez you, give you boons, kill something you’re having difficulty with, etc? If you want to tip, more power to you. But they’re not entitled to a tip just because they took a little time to help you and used a class skill.
That’s such a gross over-simplification for selfish behavior, it should be criminal. If a mesmer takes the time to get to the end of a jumping puzzle I cannot get to, yes I tip them and also thank them.
I know that’s crazy. Polite behavior in an MMO? Shocking. But I also tend to thank people who do give me buffs and rezzes . . . should I go into a down state which is rare.
It’s not an entitlement. It’s another form of thank you. And I find it very telling that the loudest people to balk tend to be the ones with the rudest responses in the this thread.
Which, in turn, is no shock at all.
And what are we talking? A gold? All this fuss over a single gold coin worth of appreciation for help?
That’s just sad.
How can you not see that gold isn’t the only polite way to thank someone for their help? How can you not see that mesmers feeling entitled to someone’s gold because they put down a portal without first stating that their selling ports is ludicrous? How can you not see that I have absolute no problem with people wanting to tip, just that the entitlement to tips in this thread is disgusting?
“That’s such a gross over-simplification for selfish behavior, it should be criminal.”
That’s such a gross exaggeration and misrepresentation of what I said, it should be comical. (It is.)
“But I also tend to thank people who do give me buffs and rezzes . . . should I go into a down state which is rare.”
Why are you not tipping them? How selfish can you be? It should be criminal.
…
Mesmers and their portals are not special snowflakes.
… I morally and ethically disagree that people should expect a tip for something like a portal. If someone wants to give a tip then more power to them. It’s the entitlement in this thread that I will never agree with.By the same token players are not entitled to a port from a mesmer.
Who ever said they were?
I kind of look at it this way: if you aren’t thankful enough to tip the guy or girl who helped port you to the achievement, then don’t take the portal.
Simple.
Just about any activity in the game helps you get achievements. Do you tip people who go out of the way to rez you, give you boons, kill something you’re having difficulty with, etc? If you want to tip, more power to you. But they’re not entitled to a tip just because they took a little time to help you and used a class skill.
I don’t understand all the hostility on this thread. When a Mesmer is providing portals to the end of a jump puzzle, they are providing you with free loot and possibly free achievements with absolutely no investment of time or energy on your part. They, on the other hand, have invested the time to learn and complete the puzzle and are now spending MORE of their time lingering in place to help YOU, rather than continuing on their way to the next event/map/puzzle/story chapter. If the time and effort you’re going to save isn’t worth five silver, do the kitten ed puzzle yourself and stop taking advantage of their generosity.
For the record, I do have a Mesmer, but I don’t provide portals. Because I positively blow at jumping puzzles. And even when I’m too broke to pay attention (which is most days), I’ll tip a few copper or a piece of my chest loot to a Mesmer who makes my life a little easier. They’re going out of their way to help me, why should I be an ungracious clown-waffle to them?
What mesmers are doing is speeding up the process of someone accomplishing their goal in the game. Loot, achievements, etc. It doesn’t matter what it is. When I rez someone, give them swiftness, help them kill something they’re about to die from, give them boons, or even have a conversation with them to help them understand the game if they’re new… it all accomplishes the same thing. I’m helping them accomplish their goals in this game quicker and easier than if they did it on their own. Mesmer portals are not unique in this. It’s definitely polite to thank them for their help, but owing them money is something entirely different. Should I start pouting if people don’t tip me for those other ways in which I help them speed up or improve their gameplay? All those things I listed help them get loot quicker and get achievements quicker too.
You say we should stop “taking advantage of their generosity.” I agree with this. We should absolutely thank anyone who goes out of their way to help us. It’s rude not to. You also say that they are taking “MORE of their time lingering in place to help YOU.” Lets think about this. Even if doing a jumping puzzle takes more time and effort than the other ways of being generous to other players that I mentioned above, the difference is in degree, not type. All of those things help people get loot, save time, etc. So if it’s a difference of degree, then why are you arguing for tipping for portals and not rezes and other types of help? Shouldn’t they be tipped 1 or 2 silver (instead of 5 for a portal) since it’s just a difference of degree?
Mesmers and their portals are not special snowflakes. They do not deserve more than a thank you unless they are actively selling ports, which I’m totally ok with. It’s all this entitlement that has been the cause of the “hostility” in this thread that you mentioned. And frankly it’s not hostility, it’s a moral and ethical disagreement. I morally and ethically disagree that people should expect a tip for something like a portal. If someone wants to give a tip then more power to them. It’s the entitlement in this thread that I will never agree with.
(edited by Chiros.6724)
“selling portals to _ for compliments” sounds like the kind of thing one would post in the funniest lfgs thread
:X
I love this idea. “Port to the top in exchange for telling me that these pants don’t make my butt look fat.” I will be doing some variations on this.
Like I said, it’s not ABOUT the money, it’s about feeling like you aren’t taken for granted. And a small, pittance amount of coin can be a good way to convey that.
If you really meant this you would have structured your post around gratitude (like a “thank you”), not money. Just look at the title of your post. “A Treatise on Tipping.” It sounds rather condescending. It’s like you think that you are teaching us some grand lesson that will make us better people. Or at least make us the kind of people you want us to be.
If you resent people for not tipping then you, on some level, feel entitled to tips for ports. It’s really that simple. I wholeheartedly disagree with that premise. I don’t feel entitled to someone’s money when I go out of my way to give them a port, give them swiftness, give them boons, strip conditions, rez them, etc.
On the other hand, I have no problem at all with people that are up front about selling ports. People shouldn’t have to read your mind to find out if you’re expecting something in return. If you’re up front about it then that’s totally cool.
(edited by Chiros.6724)
Ok. I think a lot of people have misinterpreted the OP’s intent. Some of you keep getting caught up in the fact that the OP claims he or she doesn’t play a Mesmer for money then claims he or she is bothered by the fact that not many port recipients give gratuity. The OP isn’t saying he or she is bothered by a lack of tips because of the MONEY. It’s about the lack of a display of ETIQUETTE. The fact that this form of etiquette is monetary doesn’t necessarily help the OP’s case, but don’t let that suggest that the OP is only concerned with money here. The OP is simply arguing that tipping is a good form of etiquette in these situations and is suggesting that it actually be considered by more players. Considering how many players probably don’t even think about tipping Mesmers, the OP’s attempt to spread the word seems somewhat noble to me. It’s an attempt to spread etiquette.
If that was truly OPs intent then he would have been asking for thank yous, not money.
I just realized how rarely I do jumping puzzles these days. And I love jumping puzzles! Back when they were in the rotation for dailies I had an extra excuse to leave WvW or farming world bosses and go jump around for a bit. I feel that bringing jp dailies back into the rotation for the pve category would be a great thing. Right now I doubt that many new players are seeking out jumping puzzles as much as if there was occasionally a daily incentive.
I’m a little shocked at the entitlement and hypocrisy throughout this thread. You made a mesmer not expecting tips, but you are complaining that you don’t get them. You are obviously expecting them. Stop kidding yourself.
Others have argued that if you want tips for portals you should be tipping for rezes, might stacks, etc. You argue back that they are directly benefiting themselves by helping you. Bull. How many times have you been rezed at a world boss event when your added dps was just a drop in the bucket? Or what about regular open world content? Do you have any idea how many times I’ve seen a downed player, stopped what I’m doing, fought my way to them to rez? Heck, I’ve done this for plenty of people doing jumping puzzles who have fallen and died. Where’s my tip? I frequently see others doing the same. People do this kind of thing all the time.
Or how about the many times daily that I, as a guardian, go completely out of my way to give swiftness to other players that are doing something totally different than what I’m doing. I do this just to make their experience of the game a little quicker and a little more enjoyable. Should they tip me? Can you guess how often I get tipped for these things?
I use the mechanics of my class (and things like rezing, which everyone can do) to help others, even when it doesn’t directly benefit me. I don’t expect a tip, but a thank you is nice (though I would never complain on the forums because I didn’t get enough thank yous). You use the mechanics of your class to help others, even when it doesn’t directly benefit you. You do expect a tip and complain on the forums when you don’t get it as often as you feel you deserve. Come on. I always thank mesmers for giving ports. I also thank other classes going out of their way to help me when it doesn’t benefit them. You are not a special snowflake because your class has a portal skill.
Edit: Yes, I have a mesmer. Yes, I give ports in jps and other content. No, I don’t expect tips at all.
Edit 2: I’m also bothered by the “servers make less than minimum wage” analogy. Tipping people that make less than minimum wage assumes that other who have jobs are making minimum wage or more. In this game that is not the case. Other classes are not making more gold than you. You don’t need tips to bring you up to the minimum standard.
(edited by Chiros.6724)