Guild Wars 2

Hey Ilithis,

Nice to hear from you man. I was wondering then, as a Thief, is there anything you can do to stop the BS ressing? There seems to be no valid AoE stun available to a Thief. Its just very frustrating to down one guy and have the other guy(s) just press F to make it 2v1 or 3v1 again.

Hi everyone,

I’ve seen people in WvW go down a lot. Sometimes someone downs with almost 80% of his downed health bar up, and sometimes they hit downed state with only around 30% of their downed health bar. My first question is, what determines a player’s downed health bar when they go down, and also, do players receive less damage in the downed state than in their normal fighting state?

Reason why I am asking is I am having trouble finishing people when I’m outnumbered.

When fighting 1v2 or 1v3, once an enemy goes down, even if you stomp right away and disable the downed player’s downed stun skill, as long as the 2nd player starts ressing right away, there’s usually insufficient time for the stomp animation to finish before the first player can be ressed back up.

Hepan.2709:

Im not saying you’re bad. But in every fight you use TG…what did you do for 3 mins? Hide in a bush?

Also getting a drop on somebody is a 99% win rate.

Also you state you consider yourself pro when you beat 3 true 80s vs 1. What kind of 80s? full exo? that know how to play? Yeah Ill give you some rep then. Untill then keep do what most of (us) thiefs do. Ganking lowbies (level, gear and skill wise).

The beauty about WvW is that unlike sPvP, there’s usually a long wait time between fights. Hence, I’m not usually too worried about using Thieves guild. There were cases where I didn’t use Thieves Guild either.

Two of the fights in the video had me ganking lowbies 1v1. The other fights involving lowbies had me outnumbered, with only one instance where I got the jump on one.

As for gear and skill, I have no control over how others play, or what gear they have on. Lets just say I didn’t censor any of this. I even put in losses in the video.

Iohanna.4863:

Doctor Manchu, I can’t watch your in China right now

lol what….?

Quickhit.3620:

plz post the
Few friendly tips:Blinding powder/headshot is extremely useful skills and I havent seen you using them.(skipped few minutes ,sorry but gameplay seems pretty dull to me)
Use blinding powder to safe stomp…
Dont use roll for ini only for ini maybe later on someone cripple you or even worse chill/imob you.
Smoke+Cluster bomb stealths you.It might be useful since you have traited into stealth and there is not other option to get into stealth without uti.

Thanks man. Finally some constructive stuff! BTW what do you mean by the “smoke” part in Smoke+Cluster?

Redscope.6215:

lvis.3824:

I mean, i really don’t know why you feel so offended ?
What did you expect ?

You can’t post on the thief forum with the expectation of being well-received. This class and its forum are headed-up by the players who only play a particular class because they want the greatest opportunity to win. Those types of people are usually kitten holes.

I guess that’s what everyone is thinking then. Well, if you guys are angry that I’m beating people in the video in a way you think is cheap, so be it. Merry Christmas to you all.

lvis.3824:

Let me explain to you:
thief clicking && zoom to nearly first person == bad player .

Clarify on why someone who chooses to use click for his/her efficiency is considered bad. Also, 99% of the whole video was in zoomed out 3rd person…

lvis.3824:

But nice to see that there are either enough bad players on other classes too or they are completely outgeared / lowlevel….

Right, so I have to look very closely every time I fight someone in WvW, right? If it doesn’t seem like they have all exotics on, I should run away right? Also, I believe only 2 instances of the video had me fighting a green arrow 1v1. The other 2-3 instances involving a green arrow, I was outnumbered.

lvis.3824:

I mean, i really don’t know why you feel so offended ?
What did you expect ?

lol…I don’t think I’m the one that’s offended. Look at other people’s posts, including your own very productive post here.

lvis.3824:

The people just rate your skill, some even give you tips to improve.
You attack nub players using all your utilities + elite and spam unload …. great play !

Yes, so when I kill players, suddenly they are all extremely noob. For 4 hours of playing, I suddenly kept running into all the noob players yesterday in WvW, right sir? As to the usual complaining about Unload, read the OP or don’t bother posting.

@ The Primary: If you watched the whole video, you should see I do have SB equipped for Infiltrator’s Arrow.

Don’t see why there’s so many haters on how I choose to activate my skills.

I’ve actually been a non-clicker before too, but I actually found clicking more effective for me. I actually use clicking for my personal effectiveness, so I can use the fingers on both hands instead of primarily relying on one. My weapon skills are activated by keyboard, utilities by click.

What’s the big deal that makes it so offensive to everyone’s business? Instead of discussing P/P Thief, everyone’s raging like I stole their car or something.

Warning: The bread and butter skill for my P/P build remains Unload. If this offends you, feel free to leave the page, as this video is not for you. I have a breakdown of the P/P skills below, with reasoning on why Unload is still the most effective P/P skill.

Background: When I hit 80 and started to WvW, people told me P/P was weaker than other weapon builds such as Backstab and Pistol Bleeds. Problem is, I didn’t want to do what everyone else was already doing.

Been playing WvW for a few weeks now, and feeling pretty good about sticking to my guns. I don’t see a lot of P/P Thief WvW vids out there, so I decided to post my own to entertain some of you.

I still have much to improve, and this video is not meant to show off. Until I can kill 3 level 80s by myself in a single fight, I don’t consider myself pro. Rather, I’d like to gather constructive feedback about my gameplay from the real Thief pros out there, so I can eventually do just that: reach my goal of being able to kill 3 level 80s at once.

Video(s)
Created 12/22/2012

Regarding Music: After taking in feedback from my first two videos, I have decided to opt for instrumentals over my preferred choice of music, 90’s rap, due to possible sensitivity issues. I hope it serves the widest group of people in terms of taste.

P/P Skill Usage Analysis

Unload vs Body Shot: Unload costs 5 initiative, Body Shot costs 3. The question now becomes whether the 5 stacks on vulnerability (roughly 5% increase in damage to the target) and saving 2 extra initiative is worth sacrificing about 75% of the damage an Unload would have otherwise done. The answer is no. 5% increase in future damage does not make up for the 75% loss of damage an Unload would have otherwise done.

Unload vs Headshot: Unload costs 5 initiative, Headshot costs 4. The question now becomes whether the 1/4 second daze effect on Headshot and saving 1 extra initiative is worth sacrificing about 75% of the damage an Unload would have done. The answer is no, since that 1/4 second daze effect is negligible in the case of a non-spike build such as the one I am using. When used to interrupt a healing skill for example, I believe the daze delays the enemy’s heal for around 3 seconds. 3 seconds on a non-spike build does not give me enough time to burst him down before he gets off the heal skill again.

Unload vs Black Powder: Unload costs 5 initiative, Black Powder costs 6. The question now becomes whether or not Black Powder’s aoe of blind is worth sacrificing about 75% of the damage an Unload would have done, and also an extra initiative. The answer is no. Black Powder only blinds if the target is within the field of powder, which is your current location. Other than that, it blinds once. This skill is worthless against ranged enemies and casters. Blind does not stack, either.

Hence, if my logic holds, Unload remains the most efficient and effective P/P skill. I refuse to lower my effectiveness just so that people stop hating on the 3 spam. If there is a more effective way to play P/P Thief, or if my logic on the above skills is flawed, I have no objection if someone sincerely explains so.

My recording software is FRAPS. Its not FRAPS that’s the problem. its the screen resolution of my monitor. Don’t like the content? No one’s forcing you to watch.

Regarding Music: Guess 90’s rap isn’t what people like to hear. I can’t only put in in-game sounds because when FRAPS records it also records what’s being heard on Skype, and also the music I have on while I’m playing. However, I’m up to suggestions on what type of music everyone enjoys. Hopefully some neutral music, but if mainstream music like Justin Bieber is what everyone wants, I can accept that too.

Been getting some good feedback. However, I’ve also been getting some flak about only using Unload, despite having already explained that I have already tried to incorporate the other P/P skills but they are indeed too lackluster. Let me clarify one more time why I use Unload exclusively, since in my honest opinion, it is the only decent P/P skill.

Unload vs Body Shot: Unload costs 5 initiative, Body Shot costs 3. The question now becomes whether the 5 stacks on vulnerability (5% increase in damage) and saving 2 extra initiative is worth sacrificing about 75% of the damage an Unload would have otherwise done. The answer is no. 5% increase in future damage does not make up for the 75% loss of damage an Unload would have otherwise done.

Unload vs Headshot: Unload costs 5 initiative, Headshot costs 4. The question now becomes whether the 1/4 second daze effect on Blackpowder and saving 1 extra initiative is worth sacrificing about 75% of the damage an Unload would have done. The answer is no, since that 1/4 second daze effect is negligible in the case of a non-spike build. When used to interrupt a healing skill for example, I believe the daze delays the enemy’s heal for around 3 seconds. 3 seconds on a non-spike build does not give me enough time to burst him down before he gets off the heal skill again.

Unload vs Black Powder: Unload costs 5 initiative, Black Powder costs 6. The question now becomes whether or not Black Powder’s potential stacks of blind are worth sacrificing about 75% of the damage an Unload would have done, and also an extra initiative. The answer is no. Black Powder only stacks blinds if the target is within the field of powder, which is your current location. Other than that, it blinds once. This skill is worthless against ranged enemies and casters.

Hence, if my logic holds, Unload remains the most efficient and effective P/P skill. I refuse to lower my effectiveness just so that people stop hating on the 3 spam. If there is a more effective way to play P/P Thief, or if my logic on the above skills is flawed, I have no objection if someone sincerely explains so.

When I hit 80 and started to WvW, people told me P/P was weaker than other weapon builds such as Backstab and Pistol Bleeds. Problem is, I didn’t want to do what everyone else was already doing.

Been playing WvW for about a week now, and feeling pretty good about sticking to my guns. I don’t see a lot of P/P Thief WvW vids out there, so I decided to post my own to entertain some of you.

I still have much to improve, and this video is not meant to show off. Until I can kill 3 level 80s by myself in a single fight, I don’t consider myself pro. Rather, I’d like to gather constructive feedback about my gameplay from the real Thief pros out there, so I can eventually do just that: reach my goal of being able to kill 3 level 80s at once.

Notes First P/P WvW vid from me. Not much to say, posted it for entertainment purposes.

Notes: 2nd video released; this one is just me playing with my friends who are relatively new to GW2. Starts out with 1-2 scenes on ganks and a big fight, and then turns into 3v5, 3v6 fights.

Regarding Music: Guess 90’s rap isn’t what people like to hear. I can’t only put in in-game sounds because when FRAPS records it also records what’s being heard on Skype, and also the music I have on while I’m playing. However, I’m up to suggestions on what type of music everyone enjoys. Hopefully some neutral music, but if mainstream music like Justin Bieber is what everyone wants, I can accept that too.

Unload Usage: I’ve been getting some flak about only using Unload, despite having already explained that I have already tried to incorporate the other P/P skills but they are indeed too lackluster. Let me clarify one more time why I use Unload exclusively, since in my honest opinion, it is the only decent P/P skill.

Unload vs Body Shot: Unload costs 5 initiative, Body Shot costs 3. The question now becomes whether the 5 stacks on vulnerability (roughly 5% increase in damage to the target) and saving 2 extra initiative is worth sacrificing about 75% of the damage an Unload would have otherwise done. The answer is no. 5% increase in future damage does not make up for the 75% loss of damage an Unload would have otherwise done.

Unload vs Headshot: Unload costs 5 initiative, Headshot costs 4. The question now becomes whether the 1/4 second daze effect on Headshot and saving 1 extra initiative is worth sacrificing about 75% of the damage an Unload would have done. The answer is no, since that 1/4 second daze effect is negligible in the case of a non-spike build. When used to interrupt a healing skill for example, I believe the daze delays the enemy’s heal for around 3 seconds. 3 seconds on a non-spike build does not give me enough time to burst him down before he gets off the heal skill again.

Unload vs Black Powder: Unload costs 5 initiative, Black Powder costs 6. The question now becomes whether or not Black Powder’s potential stacks of blind are worth sacrificing about 75% of the damage an Unload would have done, and also an extra initiative. The answer is no. Black Powder only stacks blinds if the target is within the field of powder, which is your current location. Other than that, it blinds once. This skill is worthless against ranged enemies and casters.

Hence, if my logic holds, Unload remains the most efficient and effective P/P skill. I refuse to lower my effectiveness just so that people stop hating on the 3 spam. If there is a more effective way to play P/P Thief, or if my logic on the above skills is flawed, I have no objection if someone sincerely explains so.

There was a general consensus that P/P skills sucked except for the medicore Unload, up until my video was posted. Many people were even expecting a future buff to the P/P skills. I don’t see why this has suddenly changed with the release of my video.

Instead of adding new items here and there, they should expand WvW. The maps are too generic, and not enough small scale fights going on because there’s no incentive to go solo instead of zerging.

I JUST grinded to all of my Exotics…now they are telling me I have to grind another full tier to be competitive in WvW???!!!! kitten off! Some people don’t have the time or desire to grind dungeons 24/7! I just want to WvW!

Solution: Ban those extra stats from WvW and theres no problem. Let the noobs run their dungeons 300 hours a week with their godly gear all they want. When they enter WvW they should still be owned regardless or not whether they can kill an AI 500 times or not.

I personally find small fights of 4 or less people involved the most fun. IMO there’s more joy in hunting people solo or with a wingman than to zerg up and suffer FPS lag.

IMO it takes more skill to fight and kill 3 guys at once than to outnumber your enemy 10 to 1 and claim the kill. Why do you need 10 people to take a supply camp? 1-2 is enough. People should spread out more instead of being all clusterkittened into a single area. That way, more small scale fights happen.

Tulisin.6945:

Doctor Fu Manchu.4203:

I use Unload as my primary bread and butter skill, since it is the most initiative cost efficient in terms of damage

Cool, but you’re talking PvP where DPS is king, not initiative efficiency. For straight initiative efficiency auto-attacks are better anyways. Unload isn’t a terrible ability, and the hit volume it generates can be useful for procs, but what it isn’t particularly impressive at is DPS. The high damage in the tooltip gives the illusion that Unload is an effective heavy damage ability, but the nearly 2s channel says otherwise.

It isn’t you, really, P/P just doesn’t have a lot going for it, especially since if you’re not playing it as a condition build you’re pretty limited to the mediocre Unload.

That said, if you’re trying to kite then traiting more into Acrobatics + dodge caltrops from Trickery (Uncatchable) will make it easier to evade and cripple people chasing you.

Problem is…I already have the Acrobatics trait line full. And also 10 invested into Shadow Arts. I’ll try the Caltrops instead of Shadown Arts then. Also, could you please expand on how Unload isn’t dps effective? I understand the Pistol condition thing with bleeds, but I have always thought Unload was the most dps oriented ability in P/P.

Thanks for the response mate. If anyone else would care to share how to better deal with Warrior /Guardians and Mesmers as P/P, I’d greatly appreciate it.

This is not some sort of QQ thread. I sincerely need help on how to run my P/P Thief in WvW PvP, and also sPvP occasionally.

Background
I run a glass cannon P/P Thief. Apparently I’ve went from being decent to noob from the time between BWE2 to now. I used to dominate with my thief using P/P, but because of some changes to the Thief since BWE2, I am unable to properly adjust, and I am now sorely outdated. I use Unload as my primary bread and butter skill, since it is the most initiative cost efficient in terms of damage, and also because all the other pistol skills cost too much initiative for their lackluster effects.
I love ranged gameplay and especially P/P, so I’d be really hesitant to abandon it, which is why I am here asking for help.

I am having the most problems dealing with the following classes:

Warrior & Especially Guardian
The main problem I am having is that I am unable to kite them as effectively as I used to. I have Ankle Shots traited, but the cripple effect lasts only 3 seconds, and has a 10 second cool-down.
When these heavy armor guys go melee on me with their charge moves, I can dodge twice before I have to pop stealth utilities skills. The problem with that is that once the utilities are also used up, I am a sitting duck, and these guys simply do more damage to me than what I can do to them, have more health than I do, and can also out-heal me.
The stealth utilities are great, but they have long cool-downs so they are meant to be used only once per fight, and to add to that, the enemy player also has his own utility skills to aid himself too.

Mesmer
They outlast me. Plain and simple. I am usually not fooled by the illusions, so I am always able to stay on the real Mesmer and Unload on him, but even then, the illusions are simply able to kill me faster than my Unloads can kill him. Dagger Storm works wonders for clearing up the illusions, but as soon as I clear them, a few more pop back up. Confusion really makes me hesitant whether to even attack him or not, but that condition lasts longer than stealth, so it wouldn’t be feasible for me to hide until it wears off. Finally, their Moa elite also makes me feel as helpless as Confusion does.

These are the main problems I have had playing as my Thief. If any kind Thief players have also encountered these problems and have found ways to overcome them, I would highly appreciate it if they would share their knowledge with me and the rest of the community of thief players. Thank you all for reading.