Showing Posts For Erufu.5471:
Bumping for awareness, I’d really like some more constructive criticism on this idea. Long posts get the short end of the stick :<
hmmmm 2 hours sounds reasonable, and I see it now. It could work if one guild doesn’t become sore or rage quit the server, taking a chunk of people with them because someone in their guild didn’t get the title this week.
I was thinking what if there was a server wide vote. It would definitely turn into a popularity contest though, but people could always protest and unwanted commander by not participating in wvw. Ballots would be generated with anyone who has purchased a commander tag. top 4 votes are tagged when they enter wvw and can deputize one handpicked person per commander when they aren’t around.
I guess with any system that funnels the commander tag through some sort of player participation is going to have that flaw of “sore loser syndrome”.
You’ll never be able to please everybody. The best way to motivate the losers is to have them improve their tactics in order to outplay their opponents. But if guild A wins and guild B doesn’t like them, something will turn out wrong.
In the end, it’s all about making the right calls. If a Commander is good and brings victory to a server, others will eventually follow him.
np I think I was trying to say, if people are gvg over who get the commander tags in wvw, then they aren’t playing wvw and possibly losing
but maybe I misunderstood how the gvg played into the tags for wvw.
but yeah the biggest problem now with the tags after almost a year at least of gw2 is the commander spam. It definitely needs addressed.
I was suggedting these GvG(vGvG) events would only take place a few hours before the WvW reset. Perhaps a schedule could be created so that WvW maps are closed off for 2 hours while this event takes place. That way, guilds could fight for the halls without having to worry about WvW.
I don’t think this would be a good implementation.
As you mentioned there would be internal conflict. I think internal conflict would actually be catastrophic to wvw because you would have guilds fighting over guild halls during wvw matches. this means they are NOT participating in the original objective of wvw. Also these map points are dynamic meaning they can be taken back.
What is the point of fighting over a point of interest amongst people on your server when it can just as easily flip back to another server within 10 or 15 minutes?
The real issue with commander tags is there is no real “merit” in receiving them. You simply have to farm ( or be given) 100g. While wvw is a hybrid of pve and pvp the 100g only plays to the PVE aspect of it. It basically says you are a good little farmer and have farmed lots of money.
In my opinion, the commander tag should have been based off of rank and WvW achievements.
After acquiring a certain rank ( general or better) AND having one offensive and defensive WvW achievement title one should be rewarded with a commander tag or a new tag higher than it( Warlord or something).
I’m not entirely I got your first remarks, but the Guild Halls would be server exclusive. Meaning it’s not a WvW map, but an instance from your server. Each server would have their own 5 halls for guilds to fight for.
Yes, the internal conflict is the biggest “oopsie” this system brings, and I’ll be honest when I say I don’t know a way to counter it. Communities are dynamic, not AIs that blindly obey a higheir ranked NPC. It’ll always be difficult to promote cooperation and subordination between total strangers, but that’s what Guild Wars 2 is all about – working towards a common good.
I completely agree with you when you commander tag just proves you can acquire currency. Me and my friends were talking about means to limit who gets it by linking it to certain achievements in the WvW scene, such as participating in x number of castle raids, killing x opponents, having x gameplay time in WvW. But in the end we thought that having a successful guild and being a good leader would be the best criteria of all. And what better way to prove your success than by duking it out with the best?
All in all, it’s a flawed system, but it’s still an idea in the making. Lots of room for progress and fixing, which is why I posted it to begin with. To gather feedback. And that’s why I thank you for your comment!
Ragnarok is ones of the best skilld pvp games ive played.
Crazy little game has made me look at GvG diffrently dince i started playing it
Well, I did love it, but all in all, it was just a zerg fest. I loved the mess because of how the graphics were like, it was always fun to see High Wizzards spamming at the entrance portal and how other guilds would work around that.
What little strategy that was used made it fun. And when you took down the Emperium and saw all your enemies being warped out at the same time… That was the best sense of accomplishment.
Thanks for commenting!
As I have been told, there is a limit per map to the number of Commanders that can have their tag active at the same time. Now, this is an issue because just about anyone that has 100 gold can purchase the title of Commander. A good Commander becomes unable to turn their tag on if five bad Commanders have theirs.
The Commander instantly becomes a figure to be followed in WvWvW as it is easy to find on the map and, generally, the average player will follow him. This becomes a problem when players with no tactical knowledge or combat experience acquire the title and join the battlefield. It is actually damaging their server and lowering the chance of success when they rush most of their force towards an untimely death.
I believe that everyone should be able to purchase the title, but only the Guild Leader of a guild that has conquered a Guild Hall should be able to turn it on in the WvWvW maps.
I disagree. I think everyone should be able to have a go at being a commander, and with some practice some might get better at it. In the end, it is the players that choose who they wish to follow. And simply asking a commander to turn his tag off, is a much simpler solution. In fact, that’s what I see a lot in WvW currently on my server. There’s usually one or two commanders from dedicated WvW guilds working together on a map, and if other commanders show up, they are kindly requested to switch their tag off.
I also agree that everyone should have their go at commanding, yes. But if they earn the title by proving that they can lead their troops to victory in a smaller setting, they gain some credibility.
Yes, the players will always choose who they follow, but that’s no different from what’s going on now. I was just looking for a way to keep things slightly more organized. It’s not to say that the system can’t work in another way. Maybe you could have your Commander tag on until all 5 Guild Commanders or their Sub-Commanders step into the WvWvW.
Like I said, I was just looking for a way to integrate Guild Halls and Guild Wars into the game, and this was just the first method that struck me.
Thanks for commenting, though! All feedback is appreciated.
5. Closing statements
Well, that took significantly longer than what I was expecting. In hindsight, I probably shouldn’t have started this at 4 in the morning. Is anyone even going to bother reading all of this?
While this system is far from being perfect or anything like it, I feel like something good for the community might come from it. It certainly needs a lit of theorycrafting, along with number tweaking, but the general idea is there.
I would love to hear the community’s opinion on this. Be it the current state of the game, the WvWvW scene or the idea I just spent the last 2 hours writing up. Feel free to correct me on anything I might have gotten wrong, to point out logical flaws or contributing with anything else you might feel like adding.
Hope you’ve enjoyed reading and have a nice one.
Peace out.
4. The Pros and Cons
I feel like I’ve already covered some of the pros to this idea, but lets recap.
- Allow guilds to control the flow of battle in WvWvW a little better;
- Promotes healthy intra-server competition;
- Brings us GvG(vGvG) and Guild Halls while integrating them into the current WvWvW format – it actually makes a difference!;
- Lowers the chances of inexperienced Commanders making appearences in WvWvW;
- Creates a new format of PvP;
- Guild Halls!
All of that is pretty awesome, isn’t it? However, no light can shine without casting a shadow.
As no system is perfect, there are some nasty downsides to this model. I’ll be perfectly honest, I’m pretty sure I’m not aware of all of them, so I’ll just list the ones that come across as obvious to me.
- No gamer likes to submit.
Perhaps the biggest problem of them all. Nobody is to say that people will like being led by someone they don’t like or trust. Maybe you had an argument with someone from that guild or just generally don’t like them. Although, chances are low that you picked a fight with all five guilds. If you did, consider thinking that you might have a problem with authority.
All jokes aside, coordination is necessary to produce results – and Commanders increase your coordination significantly.
- Change is hard to implement
It is to my understanding that in order to deal with the current state of affairs, certain methods were created to coordinate people. Might not be the best methods, but they do the trick. Changing it all around could meet some angry resistance. Popular and good Commanders that aren’t Guild Leaders might not like this idea at all.
- Game mechanics and maps don’t grow on trees
Creating maps and game elements or mechanics can be extremely difficult. Not to mention, time consuming and resource heavy. In order to introduce this method, many hours of hard work would be needed (I think).
- Drama and unfair advantages/exploits
Just like in the WvWvW scene, weaker guilds might find it necessary to team up in order to take down stronger guilds. This creates situations that the system was not designed for, such as 2 guilds sharing power while only one of the two gets to have the Guild Hall and a Commander. Not to mention, the guild that got teamed up against would have a hard time following orders that come from weaker guilds.
- Internal conflict
Just like the above, what was aimed to be healthy competition might end up harming the server further, as guilds and individuals could conflict and thus not cooperate.
Yeah, things could go pretty sour if this system doesn’t get foolproofed. But that’s why it’s a suggestion and not a patch note.
3. Why only 5 Guild Halls?
This question is actually the bread and butter of this thread, as well as the reason for the misleading title.
As I have been told, there is a limit per map to the number of Commanders that can have their tag active at the same time. Now, this is an issue because just about anyone that has 100 gold can purchase the title of Commander. A good Commander becomes unable to turn their tag on if five bad Commanders have theirs.
The Commander instantly becomes a figure to be followed in WvWvW as it is easy to find on the map and, generally, the average player will follow him. This becomes a problem when players with no tactical knowledge or combat experience acquire the title and join the battlefield. It is actually damaging their server and lowering the chance of success when they rush most of their force towards an untimely death.
I believe that everyone should be able to purchase the title, but only the Guild Leader of a guild that has conquered a Guild Hall should be able to turn it on in the WvWvW maps.
As there would be 5 Guild Halls, there could only be 5 Commanders. Each Commander would have the ability to flag up to four of their trustworthy guild members as Sub-Commanders. These Sub-Commanders would be able to turn their tag on IF AND ONLY IF other Commanders are missing.
For example, if there are 2 Commanders in the WvWvW maps, they would have the ability to flag 3 Sub-Commanders on a first come first serve basis. But if a third Commander joins the map, all 3 Sub-Commanders are un-flagged and 2 new Sub-Commanders could be flagged.
The fact that there would be 5 Guild Halls is a happy coincidence, as there happen to be 5 playable races. As such, each Hall could belong to a race, displaying strucutural differences based on said race. Just something to add flavor to the whole joint.
Due to this model, a one time refund per character should be given to the players who purchased Commander. They could choose not to use it, as they would still be able to turn their tag on outside the WvWvW maps.
2. The concept
I would like to make reference to a game that might ring a bell for some of you – Ragnarok Online.
While this relic has had fans harboring mixed feelings throughout the ages, one cannot deny it was something people spent countless hours on, be it on the official servers or private servers.
Whether it was a good game or not is beyond the point. Ragnarok Online had an interesting system called War of Emperium. It was a scheduled event that had guilds competing for dominance of a castle that would eventually become their guild hall. There was some degree of coordination, but in the end all it was was a zerg and spam of skills in hopes of, when the event ended, your guild was the one in charge of the castle. Everyone else was kicked out and, until the next instance of the event, that castle belonged to your guild.
If Guild Wars 2 was/is to have a Guild Hall system, I beleive that it should be earned by your guild through competition. I think that not every guild should have one, but instead only a few select guilds per server should have one. This would promote intra-server competition.
On paper, the system is very similar to the current WvWvW format, only scaled down. There is a Guild Hall in the center of the map and guilds would start from their camps. How it goes from here is not for me to decide, but I envision it as a sort of battle of wits, taking advantage of terrain and coordination.
Obviously, different rules would have to apply. It could not follow the WvWvW system, as it serves a different purpose. As such, off the top of my head I can think of a few rules:
- There would be 5 different guild halls – this will be justified further down;
- There would be a limit to the number of guilds competing for each hall (possibly 3 or 4);
- Each guild would have to register a few of hours or days before the event, choosing which guild hall they are fighting for;
- After the first time this event took place, the guild that owns the guild hall will be automatically registered for the next battle;
- Despite owning the guild hall, no guild starts within the guild hall itself. It is, however, available to enter it and fight within its walls;
- The battle would take place once every week a few hours before the WvWvW reset;
- Guilds would be allowed 30 minutes before battle to sort out their gear and traits in a way similar to the Mists – free gear that vanishes after the battle is over.
- Respawning would not be possible, so there would be no waypoints. Reviving fallen allies would be okay, as it can be tricky in the heat of the battle;
- It would be a sort of last guild standing event that would last for however long it would be suitable (between 1 and 2 hours);
- After the time limit, the guild with the most number of players alive (downed or not) would be declared victorious;
- Seige weapons and other constructions would not be a part of it, but other elements could be created and integrated by ANet;
- There would be a limit of players per guild, based on map size (perhaps between 20 and 40);
Naturally, these are things I thought were suitable. I am fully aware that I’m not a professional designer, so they could (read as, most likely) all have terrible flaws in them. That’s why I’m posting this idea – to promote it and figure out how well it would work or if it needs changing.
Other rules could be added, other elements could be added. Perhaps it wouldn’t even be Last Guild Standing, it could be King of the Hill. After one guild captures the Hall, all other guilds are kicked out and have spend the rest of the time trying to recapture it while preventing casualties caused by other guilds. Whatever works best, I don’t know.
TL;DR: GvG and conquering Guild Halls would be a nice idea to control who gets to be/display a commander title or icon in WvWvW.
Good morrow, fellow guildies.
I apologize in advance if this idea was posted in the wrong forum or has already been suggested. If it has, feel free to move it to the correct/appropriate forum or delete it.
After a very heartfelt discussion with some friends on skype (at 3:20 in the morning), some ideas were produced. These ideas aren’t professionally structured or outlined, but hey, this is the suggestion forum. If something’s to come out of it, it has to start somewhere.
Now, before I proceed, this post isn’t a simple request for Guild Halls or guild wars, but rather a suggestion as to how it could be implemented into the game. As pretentious as it may sound, it could perhaps be a solution to some issues I will mention further down. I understand that this is not a priority or a main concern for ANet right now (or even for the community, for that matter), but I just wanted to give my two cents. Feel free to criticize in any way you find appropriate.
As I feel this might be a bit of a long post, I’ve decided to split it into a few main points to make it a little easier to read through.
1. My opinion of the current state
Maybe I’m the only person feeling this way, maybe I’m not, but when I hear Guild Wars, I think of guilds duking it out to establish dominance. It’s a fact that Guild Wars 2 has been a little lacking in that department because of how it focused on WvWvW. It’s a good thing that we have that system, but I’ve always felt like it lacks something.
I know there are guilds in every server that strive to reduce the lack of coordinaton by having their own TeamSpeak servers or whatever suits them, but it’s a fact that the average player doesn’t belong to those guilds. This was a very strong issue in the earlier stages of WvWvW, when zerging was the only option. The masses gather and move in a single direction taking down whatever stood before them. Normal behaviour. Experience was eventually gained and things have changed a lot, recently.
But the fact remains that optimal levels of server-wide coordination still can’t be obtained. Be it because anyone can purchase the title of commander, because guilds can’t reach every player, because people who don’t know better follow commanders they shouldn’t or for whatever reason.
The main goal of this idea is to work around that issue.
(edited by Erufu.5471)
Holy crud. Reading this thread has made me so ashamed of the current generation of game players. The entire point of playing video games has been lost on everyone, most likely thanks to World of Warcraft. I guarantee everyone complaining about these changes has at one time played and enjoyed a game like WoW, or similar to it (I.E. everquest/Rift) in the way there are gear treadmills.
The point of playing a video game, is to have FUN. Doing these dungeons should be fun, if you don’t find them fun, don’t do it. You guys are forcing yourselves to do something because you want a reward, but you don’t find it fun. It’s insanity, nearly. I personally find these dungeons to be a blast, which is why I run them. The fact that I will eventually get gear I like from them, is just a bonus. I want them to be difficult, that makes it more fun.
If you guys are seriously running these dungeons for any reason besides finding them fun, you’re doing yourself a great disservice.
While I agree with your post, it should also be noted that simply “having fun” is not what a game is always all about. In a single player game? Maybe. In a MMO? Not so much.
Certain things some may consider shallow, such as prestige and looks, contribute towards an idividual’s notion of fun. Not to mention, your performance. Esp. in this game, where you have WvW. Your gear and your performance play a huge part in WvW, seeing as the better your server does, the more benefits you get for everyone, helping them as they have fun.
I have nothing further to add that hasn’t already been said in regards of dungeon difficulty. CoF is overtuned, that much is obvious (to the players who actually took the time to test the changes implemented in a LIVE server).
What I have to add is the following:
Speedrunning through dungeons or not, these tokens are not the only method of obtaining your full exotic imba set of shining cheer. You have professions. Gather the materials, level them and craft your gear. That’s how a lot of players got their hands on sweet loot, myself included.
If you think the CoF set is pretty, then your reason to pursue this set is merely for looks. Don’t use the excuse that it’s impossible to obtain gear. Gear up through other methods and take your time working towards the look you desire.
TL;DR: The dungeon is overtuned, but dungeon sets aren’t the only good gear you can find.