Guild Wars 2

oxtred.7658:

FenixBlood.1502:

oxtred.7658:

Do you really think all classes are the same and all meta builds serve the same purpose?

Yeah, no one forces you to be a team player, that still stands. That doesn’t mean you can’t. You see all the condi removal on a meta warrior? No? That’s because they trust the guard/mesmer enough to take points away of personal traitlines. On this regard, gw2 is a great game that promotes teamplay, but you can still get away without because the content is easy. And for that, you’re blaming the combat system, when it’s the lack of new dungeons that hurt.

Thats the point, you all regard team play as “everyone does the same thing” no roles. Its not even worth being on a team if you all do the same thing, but in different animations. There is no struggle. That’s the point, if you can play this game without basic rolls and even solo it because of easy content, whats the point? Unless you don’t like being challenged, has nothing to do with new dungeons. The dungeons now are grotesquely easy. Are all gamers just being so self righteous in a game that lacks no difficulty? Put aside even the trinity factor, there is no difficulty, do you really enjoy a game with skill to it? Are you gamers here that complacent on what gaming in general is?

If and if, they do make new dungeons or content that is difficult, will it become an actual game, but right now its no harder then barbie adventure, with pretty animations.

Do you not want to be pushed as a gamer? Why game at all that involves leveling and team fights? Might as well hang your hat. Go play old games where every move you made mattered, and experience true gaming…

Unless your all satisfied with this. Then I cant complain that majority of gamers (Americans) hold no skill in the virtual world.

That’s funny because you keep talking about skill and you don’t even understand how the game works. No, all classes have different roles. They are all supports, but not in the same way. Eles can’t give aegis, and guards have no banner buffs. Not everyone can solo dungeons. Everyone wants new content, you, me, whiteknights heroes. Trinity on the other hand isn’t something we want. So yeah, if you’re really the god of gamers you claim to be, and if this game is so easy it makes you ill, maybe it’s time to move on. I’m having fun with this game, despite its flaws. Otherwise I would just play something else.

I don’t care how low or high my/your skill is. All i care is that we as gamers and a community are pushed to our knowledge of game play and strategy.

oxtred.7658:

Do you really think all classes are the same and all meta builds serve the same purpose?

Yeah, no one forces you to be a team player, that still stands. That doesn’t mean you can’t. You see all the condi removal on a meta warrior? No? That’s because they trust the guard/mesmer enough to take points away of personal traitlines. On this regard, gw2 is a great game that promotes teamplay, but you can still get away without because the content is easy. And for that, you’re blaming the combat system, when it’s the lack of new dungeons that hurt.

Thats the point, you all regard team play as “everyone does the same thing” no roles. Its not even worth being on a team if you all do the same thing, but in different animations. There is no struggle. That’s the point, if you can play this game without basic rolls and even solo it because of easy content, whats the point? Unless you don’t like being challenged, has nothing to do with new dungeons. The dungeons now are grotesquely easy. Are all gamers just being so self righteous in a game that lacks no difficulty? Put aside even the trinity factor, there is no difficulty, do you really enjoy a game with skill to it? Are you gamers here that complacent on what gaming in general is?

If and if, they do make new dungeons or content that is difficult, will it become an actual game, but right now its no harder then barbie adventure, with pretty animations.

Do you not want to be pushed as a gamer? Why game at all that involves leveling and team fights? Might as well hang your hat. Go play old games where every move you made mattered, and experience true gaming…

Unless your all satisfied with this. Then I cant complain that majority of gamers (Americans) hold no skill in the virtual world.

oxtred.7658:

pve is worthwile. It’s just old. But the starting point of this game is great, and relying on active defenses is just funnier than stacking behind the tank. People are mad because they can’t bring their full nomad ranger to speedruns. But you still can play whatever you want and no one forces you to be a team player, that’s what “all welcomed” LFGs are for.

“No one forces to be a team player” Just go play basic rpgs on the play station.

No one forces anything, its a character you build solely since its creation on a roll you want to effect on the game. The fact that they’re pretty much all the same with different graphic designs, doesn’t even make it an RPG, its pretty much “who has the biggest sword” what a waste for a gamer to think.

FenixBlood.1502:

oxtred.7658:

Rukh.9287:

oxtred.7658:

Guys, it’s a 1 year old post.

Those who can’t live without trinity, time to save up for a WoW monthly fee.

Because that’s the only difference between GW2 and WoW right?

When people say this argument, I always wonder what they think to themselves. “Oh yeah, this is a good’un” like they’re totally blind to how bad an argument it is.

It’s not an argument, it’s an advice. If those guys don’t like how gw2 combat system is done, they’re not tied to this game. It’s not like the game has much to offer for pve players besides that fast paced combat style where my guardian supports everyone in full berserker. Complaining about the absence of trinity in a non-trinity game is kind of stupid.

That’s the point of MMORPG’S (MASSIVE MULTI-PLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAMES) If creating a full virtual quest filled world were pve is not worth wild, why make a game at all? Just build server based pvp and be done with it.

Which brings it to the point, its catered to low level base players. So people who hype about this game being awesome are mostly people who failed in team rolls, or who cant even understand the point of online massive multi-player gaming to begin with. Its probably mostly failed counter strike kids who play here. So you can say “save for a WoW sub” But I highly doubt you know the true meaning of mechanics and team work when it comes to online game play. A 10 year old can beat this game, so you should feel accomplished that this game had so little to offer in aspects of a true MMO.

Just go play sims online, im sure you will feel the same effect

oxtred.7658:

Rukh.9287:

oxtred.7658:

Guys, it’s a 1 year old post.

Those who can’t live without trinity, time to save up for a WoW monthly fee.

Because that’s the only difference between GW2 and WoW right?

When people say this argument, I always wonder what they think to themselves. “Oh yeah, this is a good’un” like they’re totally blind to how bad an argument it is.

It’s not an argument, it’s an advice. If those guys don’t like how gw2 combat system is done, they’re not tied to this game. It’s not like the game has much to offer for pve players besides that fast paced combat style where my guardian supports everyone in full berserker. Complaining about the absence of trinity in a non-trinity game is kind of stupid.

That’s the point of MMORPG’S (MASSIVE MULTI-PLAYER ONLINE ROLE PLAYING GAMES) If creating a full virtual quest filled world were pve is not worth wild, why make a game at all? Just build server based pvp and be done with it.

Rukh.9287:

oxtred.7658:

Guys, it’s a 1 year old post.

Those who can’t live without trinity, time to save up for a WoW monthly fee.

Because that’s the only difference between GW2 and WoW right?

When people say this argument, I always wonder what they think to themselves. “Oh yeah, this is a good’un” like they’re totally blind to how bad an argument it is.

I only show the mechanics of the game as a team or guild fight, not “WoW” though I do use it as an example for the trinity effect, its still pointless to make every class the same, thus making every boss exceptionable to everyone. I don’t want to roll a healer and tank a boss (like this game, though no healer, any class can take damage) There is no roll in this game, only which characters look cool in armor and which does the most damage. Its pretty dumbing down, reason why its an American game more and not a Japan or Korean mmo. Now those are games, deciding every armor and level and group and skill, not just “Your my level, nice tree build, lets kill stuff” Where as asian MMO’s “What level? What armor %? What vit? What strg? What armor? What build?” Where the game MAKES YOU THINK, im about to just rogue this game on a warrior and show how ridiculous is it compared to strategy mmos and not “lets all feel special and the same and we can all feel good!!!! rainbows and butterflies yeah!!!!”

Ensign.2189:

Strong healers are really toxic to all aspects of play. They have very little play to them, and it’s incredibly difficult to prevent anything they are a part of not turning into a DPS vs HPS race.

GW1’s backline play was strong because it was so strongly built upon prot and the debuff/cleansing cycle, not healing. When strong healing skills were introduced, a lot of the fine structure of the game fell apart as it devolved into more of a damage vs healing race.

PvE tanks have always been this abomination of stupid aggro mechanics grafted with insipid power healing wrapped in a thick shell of gear checks. Those systems were specifically designed to have monsters choose to attack the least threatening foe possible, where their attacks would be the least effective – and the worse a target you were, the better you were doing your job as the tank.

I do not mourn the loss of that garbage at all.

Now, GW2 does have a problem. Its problem is that there should be trade-offs between damage and utility that are interesting and support the group in different ways. In GW1, for example, your offense required both raw damage dealing and offensive disruption to be effective – your heavy damage couldn’t kill much through protection and debuffs, while your disruption wasn’t going to kill on its own but could set up your offense by purging the protections that kept them safe.

A well designed, no-trinity version of GW2 would still be anchored in damage, with a layer of buffs and debuffs augmenting combat – and a layer of removal, both of buffs and debuffs, over which the tides of the fight would be waged.

Unfortunately that is, for the most part, totally absent from GW2.

Yes, there are a handful of buffs and debuffs – of course, the debuffs do not work in PvE against any foe that matters, which only amplifies the problem. Removal, on the other hand, is largely absent. Defense is built around invulnerability frames, against which there is no answer; dodges and bubbles conquer all. Many buffs are totally impervious to removal. The handful of the ones that are vulnerable to removal are straight stat boosts, totally uninteresting, and only vulnerable to a small handful of skills.

It is as though they understood that these elements needed to be in their game, but did not understand that they were the foundation of their game. Not the pretty murder barbie game, but the strategy aspect of it, the part that gave it depth.

So to the original point – even without an insipid hard trinity, there’s a place for a ranged support class, one that is focused on providing tactical buffs, cleansing debuffs, controlling space, and enabling movement. That class is totally consistent with everything they set out to do with this game. Yet it’s impossible to actually create, because the tools are not there; instead of a rock/paper/scissors of damage being trumped by buffs/debuffs being trumped by removal – which gets beaten down in a vacuum by brute force – you just have a game of rock/rock/rock, where rock fights rock and the best rock wins.

The game doesn’t need a trinity of one-dimensional characters. But it does need depth, depth that is sorely lacking.

If you have a strong healer, its not toxic, they are only as strong as the game allowed them. So if you think this be the case, programmers are to blame. But then again players find mechanics, use them to their advantage to be stronger and even out wit programers, so why call a good player toxic, just because bad players rely on them.

That either tells me the class needs a nerf, or the bosses or weak. Games can have a balance. There is no balance in Rock, Rock, Rock. But with Rock, Paper Scissors, its the deciding outcome of how each player utilizes their role. Not who can kill each other the fastest. There is no tactics when rock faces rock. Only an outcome of who is strongest, not smartest. MMOS are tactics, not fist fighting. They rely on allies to make them stronger, and their enemies weaker, through spells or taunts or w/e you wish to call it.

If you want a rock vs rock game, go play street fighter.

Rukh.9287:

Tanking is kind of silly. Maybe make dumber mobs stick with bashing the things close to them so people can armor up and protect the others, but mobs shouldn’t be stuck like glue to one guy, it hurts immersion.

Healers make sense though. Specialization is a real thing, and if you had someone specialize in healing magic so others could focus on being good at combat, it would be a real tactic. Like medics in the real world so every soldier doesn’t have to carry around a whole hospital and try to bandage themselves up when they get wounded.

I agree in the setting of this game, healers would be enjoyable, yeah i seen mmos use none tanks to tank, but healers is what makes players push to a limit without needing to worry on themselves as their only backup.

FenixBlood.1502:

IndigoSundown.5419:

FenixBlood.1502:

-Stumbles across a year later-
-Coughs-
I must say, I enjoy games where people have set rolls based on there understanding during character creation. Seeing as any roll here can pretty much do anything, limits the games ability to make a group even worthy or worth grouping period. The fact you need to find tanks or healers in most games due to the amount of people who a) find it boring or b) cant handle being a crucial roll in the games mechanics, is what make an MMO. This game just feels like an RPG I can play on my PS3 pr 4. If i wanted game where i can do everything, i would play a standard RPG and not this “none trinity” bull. Even though this game is fun to an extent, it does nothing in the value of team work. Pick any group with any class and your ready. Defeats the purpose of an MMO. This is more like “de-evolution” This game offers no challenges. You can glide with grace through this game. Your better off playing ff10-2 if you want to be whatever you want or ff tactics. Being a support class makes you understand the roll you play is important, same as a tank. Yes dps is important for down timing bosses and not dying to some ridiculous count down. But the fact remains that this games offers no stress to me/gamers (who understand game mechanics in mmos) or importance of my character. I build what i want, do what i want and bam, im max level and blah blah. If you consider this an MMO then just go play farmville, or plants vs zombies online. It doesn’t matter what you really do, you will still win. I’d rather play free to play mmos then this at most times. Though this game is built beautifully and gorgeously, i admire the work programmers and artist did to enhance this game, in that aspect its pretty freaking nice. But the rest of the game is just ok, the only thing that drives me to play this game is the story. I enjoy the interaction of your character with others, (making this an RPG not an MMORPG). Yeah i can talk to people online if im bored or lonely, etc. But theres no value to me to even run with groups, its pretty much everyone doing there own thing, and because the basic make up of monster or bosses are variably weak (Meaning the math and variables (set statistics) within each enemy is too easy) I can just roll through. lalalala. Hey if you like not having to be a critical roll and enjoying a game with ease, then yeah this game is for you. You don’t need a team structure or even a guild to play this game. You could even rogue this whole thing and just join random pugs (But you cant say pugs because everyone is the freaking same, they just look different with different animation) Look I can see why this game attractive to low base players who don’t have a whim in the world to control a fight or save allies or brutally block and aggro the deadliest of creatures, it makes sense. In respect, this game has pulled a lot of “cry baby’s” from WoW/Tera, who complain its too hard, and released pressure of game designers. So i am grateful of that. But if you want to just have fun playing in MMO (Not MMORPG) your better off playing free to play MMOS. Like i said, if i wanted to play a game where everyone looked different had different abilities but still brought the same result, ill just go play final fantasy tactics for the Play Station 1.

If you disagree with me, then you obviously have never played an important roll and felt the rush of saving team members from death or preventing mass damage for allies.

Well, I’ve healed in many games, and tanked in some. And I disagree with you. Since you’re wrong about my having played what you call an “important role,” you must be wrong about the rest, too.

Then you never felt a rush, so you truly don’t know the importance.

“Every individual matters. Every individual has a role to play. Every individual makes a difference.”
? Jane Goodall

IndigoSundown.5419:

FenixBlood.1502:

-Stumbles across a year later-
-Coughs-
I must say, I enjoy games where people have set rolls based on there understanding during character creation. Seeing as any roll here can pretty much do anything, limits the games ability to make a group even worthy or worth grouping period. The fact you need to find tanks or healers in most games due to the amount of people who a) find it boring or b) cant handle being a crucial roll in the games mechanics, is what make an MMO. This game just feels like an RPG I can play on my PS3 pr 4. If i wanted game where i can do everything, i would play a standard RPG and not this “none trinity” bull. Even though this game is fun to an extent, it does nothing in the value of team work. Pick any group with any class and your ready. Defeats the purpose of an MMO. This is more like “de-evolution” This game offers no challenges. You can glide with grace through this game. Your better off playing ff10-2 if you want to be whatever you want or ff tactics. Being a support class makes you understand the roll you play is important, same as a tank. Yes dps is important for down timing bosses and not dying to some ridiculous count down. But the fact remains that this games offers no stress to me/gamers (who understand game mechanics in mmos) or importance of my character. I build what i want, do what i want and bam, im max level and blah blah. If you consider this an MMO then just go play farmville, or plants vs zombies online. It doesn’t matter what you really do, you will still win. I’d rather play free to play mmos then this at most times. Though this game is built beautifully and gorgeously, i admire the work programmers and artist did to enhance this game, in that aspect its pretty freaking nice. But the rest of the game is just ok, the only thing that drives me to play this game is the story. I enjoy the interaction of your character with others, (making this an RPG not an MMORPG). Yeah i can talk to people online if im bored or lonely, etc. But theres no value to me to even run with groups, its pretty much everyone doing there own thing, and because the basic make up of monster or bosses are variably weak (Meaning the math and variables (set statistics) within each enemy is too easy) I can just roll through. lalalala. Hey if you like not having to be a critical roll and enjoying a game with ease, then yeah this game is for you. You don’t need a team structure or even a guild to play this game. You could even rogue this whole thing and just join random pugs (But you cant say pugs because everyone is the freaking same, they just look different with different animation) Look I can see why this game attractive to low base players who don’t have a whim in the world to control a fight or save allies or brutally block and aggro the deadliest of creatures, it makes sense. In respect, this game has pulled a lot of “cry baby’s” from WoW/Tera, who complain its too hard, and released pressure of game designers. So i am grateful of that. But if you want to just have fun playing in MMO (Not MMORPG) your better off playing free to play MMOS. Like i said, if i wanted to play a game where everyone looked different had different abilities but still brought the same result, ill just go play final fantasy tactics for the Play Station 1.

If you disagree with me, then you obviously have never played an important roll and felt the rush of saving team members from death or preventing mass damage for allies.

Well, I’ve healed in many games, and tanked in some. And I disagree with you. Since you’re wrong about my having played what you call an “important role,” you must be wrong about the rest, too.

Then you never felt a rush, so you truly don’t know the importance.