Guild Wars 2

tyhanon.6587:

MY THOUGHTS

- to everyone who’s posting katana, scimitar, rapier, ect. they are all swords and will probably get a new skin later on.

Except that this is the only way the game will expand skills, so I assume one or two of those will make it in. And it would be thematically correct.

I would agree that we won’t see Longsword, Short Sword, or Broadsword (most likely), but the above list are different enough and thematically consistent enough to be original.

Rapier – Mesmer, Thief, Ranger (Duelists)
Katana – Warrior, Guardian, Necromancer
Etc. It works, again it’s the ONLY way to expand weapon choice. Same thing goes for possibly “War Hammers,” or Halbreds and Spears. Two different weapons with two different functions.

So I figure we could have kind of a broad discussion about the Guardian as it stands right now and where we see it going. There’s both the issue of the “what did Anet Promise about classes being able to fill all roles,” and well, constant cries for Guardian balance. I think these are sides of the same coin, but that poor coin has many many sides.

What’s at issue is both the intention of having fun (a balanced environment where people can interact at equal levels), and a game-based system built to support competitive and creative gameplay. The first problem is that of the “Everyone can do everything” idea. It was bold and a good goal, but is it impossible to achieve? I mean, they did on most levels but let’s look at it simply. What’s at the crux of all gameplay: Taking Damage and Mitigating Damage. Even without the trinity, that’s how it goes. Now that shifts, but if ANet is right, classes should perform equal at all levels.

If you think about the idea, that classes can be broken down to HP, Mitigation, and Damage at all phases of the game, the big problem comes from two instances:

1. Guardians have HIGH mitigation, which is the most frustrating thing to handle for opposing players.
2. Their damage is very situational.

Notice that MOST of the time, when it comes to people who aren’t going overboard, people complain because they “can’t kill the guardian.” But that’s the idea, Guardians are supposed to have ACCESS to high damage BECAUSE they can mitigate it well. They don’t do burst, so they don’t reach their potential for high damage until the battle has gone on longer. Most of the guardian nerfs, and game nerfs, have been difficult to manage this balance. Think about the Thief, they have low mitigation, low HP, but very high damage. They are built to do high damage and get out. The shorter the battle, the better for Thieves.

There was a quote somewhere during the early reports where they talked about balance issues and not being able to kill something, and that’s troubling. If you can kill the guardian easily, then HOW does he access high damage?

For instance, the Warrior has less mitigation options, but far higher HP, They can build for both, More mitigation and less damage, to mimic a guardian in winning a war of attrition, OR build for higher damage with less Mitigation. While their HP won’t shift much, it will still allow them to take damage simply because the pool is so large. But in the end, Players don’t like high mitigation, they don’t like NOT killing foes, even if the foe cannot kill them. Guardians have to keep this in mind in terms of Anet’s decision, but they must also keep that in mind, If they shift our gameplay too much, we’ll just be low-hp warriors without the versatility.

Now, this isn’t a “Guardian is Underpowered” post, this is a “Let’s be careful about how we treat guardians because of the mechanics.” I’ve said it before, I fear the Paragon effect here, being nerfed into oblivion and then forgotten. The Paragon’s mechanics were bad for GW1 and how it worked. And it was a sad sad sight. I think we are hovering around that for GW2. A mobiel environment? Give guardians static skills.

The other big issue right now is a lack of damage options, AKA, the Range issue in WvWvW and the balance of rewards. Guardians really have O access to long range options, utility or not, out fo the box. And EVEN traited, our options are extremely low and situational. They don’t need a lot, but they need a viable build. OR the reward tagging needs to be shifted significantly, The change to Retaliation in today’s patch, although a good direction, was a big nerf to Guardian utility in WvWvW. It doesn’t help that ourn traits are very underwhelming for the most part (see the Searing Flames thread).

But it is all supposed to be fun, to work within the system, and to be balanced. Are we there yet? Maybe, but we’re under threat depending on how ANet shifts the mechanics.

But traited SoS is up far more, it’s not high damage, but guardians cannot produce high ranged damage.

So how do we do that. Or what is the most creative way to do that. Smite+SoS+Purging Flames? Would be rough.

Werewood.9758:

Staff is useless compared to other professions.
I think greatsword is viable option for melee.
But WvW is all about range. And therefore you are forced to go Scepter. that is just the way it is. If you do not then forget about doing enough damage and stay support.
I am trying scepter/torch and mace/shield. But guardians are not too good for WvW period.
Also not enough Health now …

Greatsword is great for Melee Damage, but in WvWvW, hammer’s control outshines it. I think Greatsword works for the Retal builds though.

Staff is not useless. LoW is maybe the most underrated skill in the game. SoS, traited right, is decent damage, and EM is extremely useful for pushing or holding.

But yes, our damage is severely lacking, which is why Purging Flames (targettable)+ SoS would be the main source of ranged damage in my build if that goes through.

Scepter is blah really, I used to like it a lot, but it just stinks in all phases of the game now. Even as a WvWvW weapon, I think I would do more damage with the above Combo rather than Smite and the Occasional Hit from the tennis ball. Should probably test that.

I’m working on a build for WvWvW

Hammer/Staff, Honor/Virtue/X

I haven’t decided to buff symbols(Zeal), get Searing Flames (Radiance, see other post) or take valor for more defense. I want to be versatile, but that’s really hard when you spend most time in WvWvW outside of melee. Our ranged damage is lacking (which is why I was looking at AoE boon removal).

Did anyone find an answer? My tests were incomplete. I couldn’t find a decent booned herd.

Some good suggestions, specifically polearms/halbreds/lances and javelins. I’d add:

Rapier
Cat o Nine Tails
Sabre
Bo Staff/Quarterstaff
Naginata
Atlatl
Flail
Tower Shield (2 Handed Shield for Guardians)

Ooo, that’s another way to look at it. I won’t be able to research until tonight.

I’ll still hold my hopes that it is AoE boon removal, would be a great skill with tons of uses.

Qelris.6901:

Can’t quote.. what’s with this forum..

Last time I read Searing Flames description, it said something about having 25% chance to remove a boon when applying burn to a target. I don’t remember seeing that 20s CD in the description.

Also, checking skill simulators..
http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#Mcc9wa – 25% chance, no cooldown implied in the description (no idea when last updated)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fUAQBIiwqgAB – doesn’t imply chances, but says 20s cooldown(last updated 2012/09/09)

20s CD with a 100% chance to remove a boon seems more balanced than 25% chance with no cd, because if lucky, that’s a lot of boons that can be removed within a low amount of time. So I’d assume 20s CD is the right one.

But a 20s CD and 100% boon removal on ONE person. For a trait? No way, that’s not even close to being a good trait.

What I wonder is the coding, because I could only see them letting in a weak trait like that if the coding is wonky:

If VoJ allowed burning to come from the Original Guardian, and the 25% chance to remove a boon on Everyone? Yeah, I’d admit that’s OP. But anything else? No way.

Eveningstar.6940:

So, I got the 25% chance from the Guildhead trait builder. So either that’s out of date, or the Wiki is. Let’s assume Guildhead is out of date, and it’s the original description: “When you apply burning, remove a boon. This effect can only trigger once every 20 seconds.”

I’m thinking this works like 1 in your list.

The effect is: An application of burning removes a boon. That effect can only trigger once every 20 seconds. I don’t think it’s once every 20 seconds per target. I think the effect itself can only happen once every 20 seconds. I.E, one boon removed per 20 seconds.

I’d have to test it though. Know any good PVE enemies that start off with boons? Ettins maybe?

Yeah I went to the wiki, which I think would be up to date. I’d log in if I could right now.

The potential for that trait and PF is huge.

But looking at what we have, the potential to have yet another terrible trait is also huge.

Eveningstar.6940:

Freauxzen.2451:

Eveningstar.6940:

The effect can only trigger once in 20 seconds, so it will remove one boon from whomever is inside Purging Flames.

Right but once per player? Or once overall? Even if it only pulses once, MoC should let it sit long enough to have a nice effect over a small area.

Just trying to think creatively, outside the box, of a versatile offensive support build.

Hmmm…that’s a good question.

Hang on. I may be going by outdated information. I don’t have access to the game at the moment, but the Wiki states that it has a 20-second internal recharge. In that case, I assume the Guardian triggers it once, and only once, before it goes on recharge again. I don’t think the 20-second recharge applies to individual targets.

But it may very well be that the wiki is outdated. As Qelris said, I think the current form of searing flames gives it a 25% chance to remove a boon.

Purging Flames only pulses once, in the sense that anyone caught inside or entering the Purging Flames borders gets a non-renewing five second burn. Still, with enough targets around you, it does, as you say, sit long enough to potentially strip boons from several targets.

Actually, now you have me thinking. You could capitalize heavily on Searing Flames by focusing on burn effects. Sword+Torch triggers burn through passive Virtue of Justice pretty often, which is to say nothing of Torch’s #5. Then there’s Judge’s Intervention, Shimmering Defense, Shattered Aegis, A Fire Inside…

The 25% boon removal chance doesn’t seem so small if you’re constantly triggering Burning effects.

So yes, you may be right.

There are multiple problems then:

It says “When you apply a burn, remove a boon…”
And that begs multiple questions:

1) Is it a global 20 second cooldown, see above.

2) Is it still only 25% chance? The description DOES NOT say that, and if that were the case…. wow, that is kind of an awful trait. Or….

3) Is it, should a be, a chance on each tick of the burn?

So Purging Flames will always burn anyone inside either at cast, or if they enter the AoE.

It can either:

1. Burn everyone who enters, have a 25% boon removal on ONE person. Timer starts.
2. Burn everyone who enters, have a 25% boon removal on each person who enters, Timer starts on each person.
3. Burn everyone who enters, have a 25% chance of boon removal on each tick of the burn. After one boon removal timer starts.
4. Burn everyone who enters, remove One boon from everyone burned. Timer starts for each person.

4 or 3 is how it should work, I’d be happy with 2. If it’s 1, the just add it to the list of ridiculously underpowered traits guardians have. (Granted we have some great ones, but there are many many stinkers).

This plan came from me trying to find a versatile build for PvE and WvWvW, using Honor/Virtue as the backbone and Hammer/Staff/GS as the main weapons.

I wanted something that could work for all situations with minimal retraiting.

If anyone has any suggestions, let me know, I don’t see many builds around that revolve around that.

Eveningstar.6940:

The effect can only trigger once in 20 seconds, so it will remove one boon from whomever is inside Purging Flames.

Right but once per player? Or once overall? Even if it only pulses once, MoC should let it sit long enough to have a nice effect over a small area.

Just trying to think creatively, outside the box, of a versatile offensive support build.

Does Searing Flames make Purging Flames an AoE boon removal.

If so, on a short cooldown, and with targettable AoE and possibly MoC, that can be really powerful.

Or I could be crazy.

jackal.5768:

I decided to roll my own Guardian after playing along side one for a while, and I was quickly amazed at how extremely OVERPOWERED the Guardian profession is.

First off, you get to wear HEAVY ARMOR and cast ranged damage spells (scepter) AND you have the best healing and buffs in the game.

WOW – my Guardian is level 12 and I have not died… NOT ONCE. I have not even some much as been downed. NOT ONCE.

Can you say, “OVERPOWERED?”

I believe this guy posted the same thing during the BWE’s. Just angry that someone beat him 1v1.

The funny thing is saying OP and scepter. If anything, that’s a weak weapon.

Not a bad idea.

Maybe a Pillar of Light-type vulnerability AoE (A symbol too) and a fast, long range Single target skill on the focus.