Guild Wars 2

Why are we here?
First of all, I didn’t really know where to post this topic, since it belongs to a few. The reason I ended up posting it here in suggestions, is that I want to look forward and come with some constructive criticism towards the next adventures we will face as heroes in Tyria.

A Brief Summary spoilers
After finally having beaten Zhaitan in Arah (Story Mode) and concluding my personal story, I couldn’t help but feeling a bit disappointed. After so much anticipation leading up to the conclusion I felt that the encounter that was Zhaitan was a bit anti-climactic for reasons that will follow below. Before I get to that however, I have learned that when giving criticism it is always best to start with what’s good. So here we are:

The Good spoilers
The story kept me wanting to move forward and I genuinely wanted to see what happened next.

The things happening during the Zeppelin (Flight Ship?) phase was epic and the graphics and scenery was absolutely gorgeous.

The fight leading up to Zhaitan, with Dragon Champions flying through the air was engaging and fun.

The music after defeating Zhaitain is some of the most beautiful I’ve heard in a game – but you get to hear that after defeating the last eye, so this one doesn’t really only apply to the Arah instance.

The Bad spoilers
The “fight” with Zhaitan himself. And yes, the quotation marks are intended. Because it wasn’t really me or the group fighting with Zhaitan and that’s the biggest problem for me.
Instead of getting a proper face-off with the Elder Dragon that has caused so much chaos and misery across Tyria, who have killed your mentor and left you feeling helpless, who have taken you 80 levels to finally meet – you don’t even get to properly fight him. You get to kill more of the same mindless minions you’ve been killing since level 30 (or so) – while NPC’s fire the cannons, while a cutscene delivers the blow that weakens him the most. All you get is 2 minutes in a cannon shooting fireworks that deals (?) damage to him, while he repeats the same animations and repeats the same audio “roars” over and over again, until he finally gives up. That my friends is a cheap “ending” to an otherwise awesome adventure.

Looking forward
I was happy to get that off my chest. Now it’s time to look forward. Even though I was led down by the Zhaitan encounter I realized: “Hey, this is an MMO! We can help shape the world!” and that is why I would like to invite everyone who cares as much for the future of this game as me, to join an open-minded discussion of how you think things should proceed from here.

Here are a couple of my thoughts on the matter and remember, these are just suggestions. Feel free to add your own suggestions and thoughts in a comment.

My suggestions:
- Let us actually fight the encounter.
- Make use of some of the awesome mechanics you have introduced, such as dodging, picking up items, etc. We players like it when we have to get involved.

- Let the fight encourage teamwork even more – but don’t restrict it to team revival.
- Make use of class-specific specialities and utilities – without restricting the encounter to a specific team setup. (i.e. use the combo-fields etc.)
- Make the player feel important, like he / she have made an actual impact.
- Add more phases to the encounter itself – one phase the dragon might be in the air – the next phase it’s taken hostages (or whatever) – mixing things up and adding twists keep players engaged.

- Don’t only use the same adds / monsters you’ve used the entire game – find new exiting “elite” monsters that the dragon have hidden up until this moment.
- Jumping puzzles – I’m sure there is a way you could cram a jumping puzzle into an encounter without making it a hassle for the player – find a way.

In conclusion
Thank you for reading this long post – again feel free to add suggestions or come with constructive criticism to my suggestions. Remember, we all want this game to succeed, because we love playing it (most of us do).

In closing I also want to thank the developers of this fantastic game. I know that most of the things written here is a critique of a product that you love – so please don’t take it personal when I say that nothing is perfect and probably never will be – but together we can help you come kitten near that perfection that we all seek in our games.

Thanks for reading.

Ehm, I don’t know who wrote this but I quote:

“The thief don’t have to use their utilities for anything, other then gaining more stealth”

This is just silly. First of all – you have to be playing a D/D for stealth-builds to be useful in the long run. Secondly – only a noob thief would only have stealth utilities in his belt – or atleast only a thief that is trolling around random servers in sPvP enjoying the whinning of the players he nuked.

In tPvP or if you’re just a good teamplayer in general – you’d select a much more varied set of utilities, not to mention that you also atleast need a stunbreaker to not get nuked yourself.

Very good and interesting read. However there are some points which I disagree with you.

Crowd Control
First of all, while I agree that CC can be annoying and in some cases forces the player to choose some kind of stun-breaker they are a big part of what makes the game interesting. Here are a few reasons why that is so:

-The player has to be economical in his use of abilities (i.e. he can’t just spam whatever button he wants)
-It encourages strategical thinking
-It encourages teamwork (fx when a teammate is downed, you can use fear to prevent him/her from being stomped)

That being said; I can see how that sometimes limits your choices when selecting between the already scarce utility options, but in the end the choice is still up to you – which brings me to my next point.

Casual vs. Hardcore
I think that you fail to make an important distinction between casual sPvP and hardcore sPvP and the implications that it will have for each. Making animations more vivid will for example result in the game being too predictable in the end-game. It would turn into an endless battle of dodges and no one hitting their target (which is just as frustrating as being CC’ed all the time).
As it is now, players who take their time to learn the game animations (hard though it might be) will have the edge over those who didn’t – and that’s one of the gaps that separates the casual from the hardcore.

Bursts, Glasscannons and Bunkering
This was probably the part where I agreed with you the most. I agree that some burst-classes / builds are currently too powerful and takes away from the overall experience. No one thinks it is fun to die in less than 10 seconds. There are many kinds of solutions to this problem of course – but I don’t think that nerfing is the best way to deal with it.

I’ve made this point in another post (probably on the thief-forum). I believe that burst damage should be something that is rewarded or in other words something that you build-to-get. This can be done in different ways, (perhaps through % of life bonuses) or through conditions. In case of the dreaded Haste+Pistol Whip burst that thief carry, I suggested a change of the ability itself.

Currently most glass-cannon-builds are a risk reward thing. And I kinda like the way that you have to be careful about how you roam around, because you might deal mean damage – but you also die just as quickly if you’re not careful. Especially during team-fights. Which brings me to the last point I want to make:

Teamwork
Many of the problems that you have mentioned are mostly only problems when it comes to 1vs1 scenarios or small skirmishes. In the grand scheme of things many of the crowd-control effects are supposed to be utilities for the team as a whole. If you think about it, all CC’s have a purpose in a team fight. Stuns can save your buddy’s life if he’s about to be stomped, dazes or immobilization are great doing chases or for assisting an escape.

Bunkering becomes meaningless if you are overwhelmed by hordes of enemies and bursts are a lot less dangerous (and attractive), when you just blew half your cooldowns and still find yourself surrounded by enemies. It’s also a greater risk.

Anyways, nice post and I hope you like the response

This isn’t a bug I think – it happens when you’re in combat and (I’m not sure of this) are too close to the enemy.

I could be wrong though

Liewec.2896:

i hate to bring up the “WoW” qliche, but their stealth was decent.
you could spot the thief if they went to close infront of you,
and once they hit you they’d have to get out of combat to restealth again,
or use a 2 minute cooldown that let them restealth in combat.

it makes more sense from a realism stand point,
once someones attacked you you’re going to know they’re there.
and it makes more sense from a gameplay standpoint,
because swiping at the air is’nt fun.

You can’t even begin to compare the stealth mechanics of World of Warcraft with this game. Stealth is used for vastly different reasons in both games for starters. In WoW stealth is a way to get the drop on somebody and was used as the combat starter. In Guild Wars stealth is mostly used as a method to escape or reposition which (the latter) is basically all thief is about – positioning and mobility.

And realism? Really? You are speaking of realism in a game where humanoids made of weeds can make 5 clones of themselves and disappear into thin air casting while casting magic – or a tiny goblin can manipulate the elements of the planet and conjure up tornados and rainfall. This is a fantasy game!

if you want realism go play train-simulator.

For the OP: If you are having a problem with stealth play the thief-class for a bit and see for yourself how stealth works and how your mindset is when you use it. That will give you some means to either counter it or to use it to your advantage – that’s the only advice I can give.

Doman.3042:

Let me start by mentioning that I love a lot of the game’s design already, and that I really admire how well you’ve pulled off one of your design goals so far: diversity and customization. I’ve been experimenting with builds and I love that I can at least try to go in as many directions as I can. I love that I’m not as pigeonholed as I’ve been in other games – personally, I like stealthy characters but hate burst playstyles, so the skirmishing and zone control that a survivable condition damage thief with Pistol/Dagger and Caltrops has just – really hits this crunchy, satisfying accord with me. In PvP, there’s room for a lot of counterplay from the opponent when I go that spec, and that feels exactly right for making sure that both people have fun in the fight. (On that note, I also love that stealth doesn’t last long and is best used for a quick reposition – you have to use it intelligently and actively instead of always skulking through the battlefield unseen. It makes a traditionally passive mechanic into an active one, which is really admirable of the guy that made that design decision!)

I think that from an objective game design standpoint, specs like the Basilisk Venom-Cloak and Dagger-Mug-Backstab combo don’t give the opponent enough time to react to allow for counterplay. With the condition damage bunker build, the game is more about strategy – are you smart enough to dismantle my build and figure out a weakness in my pattern? With the backstab combo, the game is more about execution (and this burden of execution is really on the thief’s opponent to dodge than the thief themself to attack) – can you react fast enough to stunbreak and move out of the way of the giant wrecking ball of damage?

[This link is a great read] for what I’m talking about. Right now, the design of PvP feels inconsistent – do you want to value strategy or execution more? I can’t really tell. There are elements of both, but they don’t really mix – when the rewards for an imbalance of execution are high enough, there’s simply that much of an execution barrier to new players – “you must be able to fend off a six-pool/pull off one-frame Sakura timings/stunbreak out of Basilisk Venom.”

I’m not saying one is strictly better than the other all the time, but a question to ask yourselves when you go into your next design meeting is “Which style does Guild Wars 2 better lend itself to? What’s better for all players involved, and not just one side of the fence?” Personally, my vote’s for a strategy-heavy game. (I mean, there has to be SOME level of execution barrier, otherwise you get complaints about Heartseeker spam, but then there’s going too far in the execution-fetishism end.)

Thanks for your time, and double-thanks for asking us for feedback! Especially during the Thanksgiving holidays, I’m sorta surprised you guys are in at this time of the year. Have a good weekend, y’all.

I really like the thoughts that this user is putting forward. For me sPvP is just as much the “mind-game” as it is the actual fighting. Like a game of chess. There has to be room for counter-playing each other – and what determines the outcome is the execution of your combos/utilities and outsmarting the enemy. The most satisfying 1vs1’s (and team-battles) are always the ones where even if you lose, you had a good time – because you know you opponent won fairly and that you put up a good fight.

That being said – I don’t think that damage nerfs per se will be the solution to burst-builds like Haste + PW or HS spamming. Someone earlier mentioned something else that might be a better and more satisfying solution, following the line of thought of execution and the mind-game. The solution was simply that you had to build up to the big finish. Or in other words: You had to deserve the burst damage.

The concrete example given was stacks of bleeding causing more damage – that of course would spell a big problem thieves without a bleed / condition build. Another solution could be something along the lines of the already implemented “Adrenaline” system that warriors enjoy or change the abilities themselves.

An example of that could be (and don’t kill me this is just an idea) to change Pistol Whip to consume all -remaining- initiative and do more damage for each point of initiative that it consumes. This requires you to either save initiative during the battle for your execution – or getting a strong start of the battle- but having to last the rest with diminished initiative. – This also means that Pistol Whip will not be viable with Haste and can’t work as a burt.

That’s all I can think of right now…

P.S. please fix stealth so that pets don’t follow you after you pop it! It’s one of our only ways of escape!

Weeell – it took me a while to read all the posts xD
I don’t even know what to answer at this point – but I guess I’ll throw in my perspective of things.

I’ve been doing random skirmishes for a loooong time now – and it’s starting to feel kind of boring playing the same mode with the same 4 maps over and over again. Don’t get me wrong – I love playing sPvP – but atleast some variation would be nice.

When it comes to Free Tournaments I feel that (at least when I do it with some friends) that the first 2 rounds are easy – and the last round is incredibly hard. I know it takes practice and stuff, but sometimes it’s like we’re playing in a whole other league.

Round 1 = We dominate them.
Round 2 = There’s a bit of a struggle, but we ultimately win.
Round 3 = We get owned terribly.

I’m really looking forward to the private arena feature – since that makes my guild able to do practicing nights. As the leader of our tournament team that’s something I can’t wait to happen.

I’m very much for such a tool!
A few tips for those who can’t wait for the tool though – if you still want to experiment – just go to the Heart of the Mists. It’s a nice way to atleast get an idea of how the different traits work out (albeit against other players).

Another thing you can do while waiting for it’s implemention (this is what I do) is going to a Trait-Build site like: http://en.gw2skills.net/ – and saving the builds you have there. I know that takes some time – but it’s worth it if you want to remember your build.

First of all, thanks for an awesome game! I’m enjoying it very much thus far!
I was wondering if mounts are currently planned to be implemented at some point? I know that mounts seem useless given the fantastic way-point-system and the Asura Gates, but for those of us, kittenally enjoy travelling the world, it would be awesome to ride on the back of a horse or something appropriate for the given race – at a proper speed. I know this would significantly alter the way WvW plays out though (making reinforcement easier), but a solution could be to disallow mounts in WvW.

Just wondering!

Thanks!