Guild Wars 2

From 5 days ago:

Haley.2390:

popular-no necessary implication that most or the majority of Necros use it

From 1 day ago:

Haley.2390:

Who said anything about in comparison to non-Rabid Condition builds (that would only make sense if I had said “most” or “majority”?

More:

Haley.2390:

What authority says “popular” necessarily means “most” or “majority”? And why would you think I meant “majority” when I clearly and explicitly said I never meant “most” or “majority” many times?

Haley.2390:

In addition, my restaurant example strongly reflects that I never meant “most” or “majority.” My restaurant example was also used for both “many” and “popular.” Do you really think that when someone says a restaurant is popular in a city they mean most people in the city go there?

Haley.2390:

Here are 3 definitions for “popular” by Oxford dictionaries:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/popular?q=popular

Definition #1: “liked, admired, or enjoyed by many people or by a particular person or group”

And here are 4 by Merriam-Webster:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/popular

Definition #3: “frequently encountered or widely accepted”

I would hope you hold Oxford and Merriam-Webster dictionaries in high esteem.

You cannot show me how these authoritative dictionaries necessitate that “popular” means “most” or “majority.”

Remember, dictionaries list multiple meanings for words. Coupled that with my explicitly saying I do not mean “most” or “majority” and my restaurant analogy, and any competent person would not try and say I meant “most” or “majority.”

Haley.2390:

I would say “McDonald’s is a popular place for people to eat” and hardly anyone would get their panties twisted over that statement. Does that statement necessarily show that I meant most people go there to eat or that most people who go out to eat go there? No.

Haley.2390:

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.

I’ve already listed the definitions from Oxford and Merriam-Webster that my use of “popular” means! Why would you ask? Because you didn’t read that post? Why am I not surprised?

I make two statements. “Many PvP Necros go Rabid” and “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros.” Neither statement necessarily implies “most” or “majority.”

I said that very early on. And I repeated myself constantly that I never meant “majority” or “most.”

And you are working all this on assuming my use of “popular” means “majority” yet all the while I said I do not mean “most” or “majority.”

Haley.2390:

Why is it misleading? I explicitly said I do not mean majority or most many times starting early on.

Haley.2390:

I’ve also explicitly said I did not mean “most” or “majority” many times.

Haley.2390:

You can use “many” and “popular” and not imply “majority.” Especially obvious after the person says their use of “popular” has no necessarily implication of “most” or “majority.”

I’ve already linked you Oxford/Merriam-Webster on this.

Restaurant example again: My city has a population of 800,000. My favorite restaurant restaurant can house up to 40 people. Everyday I go, it is almost packed. Hardly anyone would object to my saying, “My favorite restaurant in my city is popular and it has many people going there.”

Haley.2390:

I am quoting this again. I cannot believe you think I have not been clear on my not meaning “majority” or “most.”

Haley.2390:

Why is it misleading? I am stating it again here: I never meant and still do not mean “majority” or “most.” Is that clear enough?

Haley.2390:

Let’s be clear here. You think my definitions from Oxford/Merriam Webster do not make sense in this case?

Oxford:
“liked or admired by many people or by a particular person or group”

You think it does not make sense to say “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros” in this context?

Merriam-Webster:
“frequently encountered or widely accepted”

You think it does not make sense to say “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros” in this context?

Haley.2390:

5) I have never said the “majority” of PvP Necros go Rabid. Nor do I believe it.

6) I have never said “most” PvP Necros go Rabid. Nor do I believe it.

7) When someone says something is both “many” and “popular” they do not necessarily mean “most” or “majority.”

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Within the context of Necro builds, Rabid being “popular” means “most.”

You are denying that is not what “popular” means.

Then you are being dishonest.

You are so strange. Would rather blind yourself to evidence so long as you can pretend you are right. You keep posting wishy-washy “evidence” and making acrobatic feats of “logic” to support yourself despite all the explicit evidence saying your conclusion is wrong. Explicit. I’m going to post my stuff again.

My post from the Necro thread 1 day ago:

Haley.2390:

I have no opinion on what most or the majority of Necros use, just that Rabid is popular. And I do not believe there is any way to know with absolute certainy.

How many times must one explicitly state their meaning so that someone else stops claiming they have a hidden misleading meaning?

I mean, what else is there to argue?

You think my way of doing something makes me misleading. I assure you I’m not. I express my explicit meaning over and over.

You keep repeating that I’m misleading. Holy cow. If you are just going to ignore all those explicit posts, I’m just going to post them over and over.

Who could be misled thinking I meant “most/majority”? Only someone ridiculously absurd would choose to ignore these explicit posts on my saying I do not mean “most/majority.”

My post from the Necro forum 1 day ago:

Haley.2390:

I have no opinion on what most or the majority of Necros use, just that Rabid is popular. And I do not believe there is any way to know with absolute certainy.

From 5 days ago:

Haley.2390:

popular-no necessary implication that most or the majority of Necros use it

From 1 day ago:

Haley.2390:

Who said anything about in comparison to non-Rabid Condition builds (that would only make sense if I had said “most” or “majority”?

More:

Haley.2390:

What authority says “popular” necessarily means “most” or “majority”? And why would you think I meant “majority” when I clearly and explicitly said I never meant “most” or “majority” many times?

Haley.2390:

In addition, my restaurant example strongly reflects that I never meant “most” or “majority.” My restaurant example was also used for both “many” and “popular.” Do you really think that when someone says a restaurant is popular in a city they mean most people in the city go there?

Haley.2390:

Here are 3 definitions for “popular” by Oxford dictionaries:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/popular?q=popular

Definition #1: “liked, admired, or enjoyed by many people or by a particular person or group”

And here are 4 by Merriam-Webster:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/popular

Definition #3: “frequently encountered or widely accepted”

I would hope you hold Oxford and Merriam-Webster dictionaries in high esteem.

You cannot show me how these authoritative dictionaries necessitate that “popular” means “most” or “majority.”

Remember, dictionaries list multiple meanings for words. Coupled that with my explicitly saying I do not mean “most” or “majority” and my restaurant analogy, and any competent person would not try and say I meant “most” or “majority.”

Haley.2390:

I would say “McDonald’s is a popular place for people to eat” and hardly anyone would get their panties twisted over that statement. Does that statement necessarily show that I meant most people go there to eat or that most people who go out to eat go there? No.

Haley.2390:

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.

I’ve already listed the definitions from Oxford and Merriam-Webster that my use of “popular” means! Why would you ask? Because you didn’t read that post? Why am I not surprised?

I make two statements. “Many PvP Necros go Rabid” and “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros.” Neither statement necessarily implies “most” or “majority.”

I said that very early on. And I repeated myself constantly that I never meant “majority” or “most.”

And you are working all this on assuming my use of “popular” means “majority” yet all the while I said I do not mean “most” or “majority.”

Haley.2390:

Why is it misleading? I explicitly said I do not mean majority or most many times starting early on.

Haley.2390:

I’ve also explicitly said I did not mean “most” or “majority” many times.

Haley.2390:

You can use “many” and “popular” and not imply “majority.” Especially obvious after the person says their use of “popular” has no necessarily implication of “most” or “majority.”

I’ve already linked you Oxford/Merriam-Webster on this.

Restaurant example again: My city has a population of 800,000. My favorite restaurant restaurant can house up to 40 people. Everyday I go, it is almost packed. Hardly anyone would object to my saying, “My favorite restaurant in my city is popular and it has many people going there.”

Haley.2390:

I am quoting this again. I cannot believe you think I have not been clear on my not meaning “majority” or “most.”

Haley.2390:

Why is it misleading? I am stating it again here: I never meant and still do not mean “majority” or “most.” Is that clear enough?

Haley.2390:

Let’s be clear here. You think my definitions from Oxford/Merriam Webster do not make sense in this case?

Oxford:
“liked or admired by many people or by a particular person or group”

You think it does not make sense to say “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros” in this context?

Merriam-Webster:
“frequently encountered or widely accepted”

You think it does not make sense to say “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros” in this context?

Haley.2390:

5) I have never said the “majority” of PvP Necros go Rabid. Nor do I believe it.

6) I have never said “most” PvP Necros go Rabid. Nor do I believe it.

7) When someone says something is both “many” and “popular” they do not necessarily mean “most” or “majority.”

Those are obvious “straw man.” I rather stick to what you posted. Thank you very much.

Then please stick to what I’ve posted explicitly on what I meant rather than what you try to infer to support your view of my stance.

Isn’t it odd that every time you’ve asked if I believed most/majority that I’ve said no?

You said I didn’t state it clearly enough, and I state it again. And again. And again.

Yet it’s odd that you think I am being misleading and actually do mean most/majority.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

sorrow saying “most” does not mean I mean “most.” Bhawb saying “very common” does not mean I mean most.

Yet, your belief is based on that.

4) I believe Rabid is popular for PvP Necros based on my experience with the Necro forum and the thread I made there.

If you based your belief on that, then you agree with sorrow and Bhawb.

If you don’t agree, then you are attempting to mislead, because you’re now denying the antecedent just so you can keep your false conclusion.

Please read the girl’s example and mystery bag example clearly.

And I want to further flesh out my example of the girl.

She says, “I believe this candy is eaten by many people in my town. I believe this candy is popular in my town.”

Abe says, “You should say it is eaten by ‘some’ people, not ‘many.’ It should be evident if you go to town.”

She then decides to go to town to ask people this question:

“Do many people eat this candy in this town? Is this candy popular in this town?”

Bob says:

“This candy is pretty much the only candy people in this town eat.”

She asks:

“So you mean pretty much most people in this town eat this candy.”

Bob responds:

“Yes. Most people you see around eating candy are eating this candy.”

She gets excited and goes back to leave a note on Abe’s door to relay this and goes back to finding more answers.

She asks around some more if this candy is popular, Charley responds:

“I don’t know, but I would guess so.”

Dave says:

“I don’t know, but I personally eat this other candy.”

Eric says:

“Yes, this candy is popular.”

Frank says:

“A large number of people in this town eat this candy.”

She goes to ask Gabe, who is very active in the city candy community. And he says:

“It is very common for people to eat this candy.”

So she thinks to herself, “I feel justified in believing that this candy is popular especially with people who hold stronger beliefs that most/majority of people eat it. Now I will go back to Abe and tell him to look at my notes and I will especially note Gabe because I see him as our town’s candy connoisseur.”

That is my case—as you haven’t found my saying that I believe most/majority. Yet there are many times that I do say I don’t believe most/majority.

Now, if I should have waited until a “reasonable” amount of responses have occurred and picked them to relay to you, I feel it is more compelling for me to choose strong statements by others to justify my not-necessarily-as-strong statement.

Just as if you believe the secret number (from 1-100) to a mystery bag is over 50. And you go around asking people. The answers people give are {50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100.} You feel most justified by believing it is “over 50” due to the people who answer 90 and 100. This does not mean you believe it is 90 or 100. You just believe it is “over 50.”

Haley.2390:

So Condition Necros are popular, right? And you said pretty much most Condition Necros are running full Rabid?

This is me asking if someone else said it (I actually wasn’t sure what you were referring to when you linked this first as I had asked it and a string of other posts to try keep my thread active.) I also mentioned your post on Death Shroud giving enough survivability (this is unrelated, my main impetus for using this was to get the thread going, I thought it would keep the thread active.) This is not saying I believe “pretty much most Condition Necros are running full Rabid.” It is asking to confirm if that’s what someone else meant. I’ll illustrate with the girl example below.

The thread wasn’t active enough for me so I posted those things. No where does it say I believe that.

You quoted this by me:

4) I believe Rabid is popular for PvP Necros based on my experience with the Necro forum and the thread I made there.

Then you responded:

If you believe that, then you are affirming that you agree with the meaning of “popular.” It’s just too bad for you because “popular” means “most” or “majority” in that context.

What? How?

If the girl says this:

“I believe that many people like this candy. I believe this candy is popular.”

And she goes around asking:

“Is this candy popular?”

Someone says:

“This candy is eaten by the majority.”

She asks:

“So you’re saying pretty much most people eat this?”

Someone else says:

“It is very common for people to eat this candy.”

All these people have said stronger statements than her belief that this candy is “popular.”

But having people with stronger sentiments than her means she feels comfortable in believing her own not-necessarily-as-strong belief.

lol. You sound desperate.

I can assure you I’m not. I’m also not sure if your being antagonistic towards me was due to my being antagonistic towards you. If it is, then I’ll try and be more civil if you choose to, too.

If you are willing to take a step back and pretend what I say is my point of view is indeed my point of view (that I have never believed most/majority) then you maybe can understand the motivations behind my posts and examples.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Again. Let this sink in.

If you used the Necro forum to form your belief on what “popular” means and it turned out to be “most”. It is very dishonest of you if you to deny the meaning and insist that is not what you meant.

Whoa whoa. I did not make the thread to find out what “popular” means! I made it to show that it is okay for me to believe Rabid is popular for PvP Necros. Just like that girl in the example asking people around. If a bunch of people say “most/majority” or “very common” then I find it okay for me to believe “popular.” (as “most/majority” are stronger implications than “popular.”) Just like that girl. sorrow was used explicitly by me because he was the only one who posted by the time I edited in my response to you. Bhawb was posted by me because he is very active in the Necro community (a la But of Corpse all-Necro guild and podcast interview with Gibbly.) It’s the same as the girl first relaying what the first person said to her. And then relaying someone she knows is an authority on that candy and its eaters.

And 5 days ago, I first used “popular” and in that same post, I said there are no necessary implications of most/majority.

There is no journey to see what “popular” means. I’ve explicitly said what I meant by “popular” later when you asked many times.

This is my thread opener:

What are popular stat combination choices for Necros in PvP (WvW/sPvP/tPvP)?
Is there a large number of Necros who choose Rabid?
Is Rabid a popular choice for Necros in PvP?

How should I continue arguing with you when you are inferring my intentions incorrectly and refuse to show sound support against my assertion of my intentions stated from 5 days ago and onward and continuously?

Bizarre argument.

I think what led you to say “popular means majority” to Craig is really tainting your arguments. Why would you say that when it’s not necessarily true? And when I’ve said 5 days ago that my use of “popular” does not necessarily imply most/majority? Only reason I can think of is that you did not know it was not necessarily true. Now you are riding off the energy of this sentiment when you should not even have this sentiment.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

If you used the Necro forum to form your belief on what “popular” means and it turned out to be “most”. It is very dishonest of you if you to deny the meaning and insist that is not what you meant.

I’m not being dishonest. You are willfully imposing what you believe my stance is. Incorrectly, too.

If you felt it was misleading, then I’m sorry. But I do not feel it is misleading. Especially since I’ve said since 5 days ago I do not mean “majority/most” and have continued to say so. And restated clearly to say I do not believe it is “most/majority.”

Do you think that girl in the example is misleading?

Here’s another good example:
A girl says, "Many people like this candy. This candy is popular. I do not mean ‘popular’ to necessarily imply ‘most/majority.’ "
“I’ll show you examples from people that lead me to believe this candy is popular.”
“This guy says the majority of people like this candy.”
“This guy says it is very common for people to eat this candy.” [Reworded this to be less ambiguous.]
Then the girl goes on to say, “Sentiments like these are why I believe this candy is popular and that many people eat it.”
Why do you assume the girl believes most/majority in this scenario? Silly.

If you do find this misleading, then we can argue no further. There is no objective truth on whether or not this is misleading. It is not misleading to me. And any further arguing is about a subjective thing—which is unproductive in this scenario.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

You asked what “popular” means.

Haley.2390:

Is Rabid a popular choice for Necros in PvP?

They answered that it implies “most.”

sorrow.2364:

There is no point to ask people here in the Necromancer forum.
You can get your answer by yourself watching the PAX qualifiers and count how many Necromancers were running an amulet different from Rabid.
I counted none, but I may have missed one.

There is nothing more in there. Your belief is wrong.

You can say my belief is wrong. Sure. I see nothing wrong with your saying that. And it’s not why I’ve argued. You should have said that in the beginning if that’s what you’re trying to get at.

It is my belief that many PvP Necros go Rabid. It is my belief that Rabid is popular for PvP Necros.

It is not my belief that the majority or most PvP Necros go Rabid.

And through these beliefs, I felt compelled to speak for Rabid Necros on Spiteful Spirit not being good for them.

It is my knowledge that I do not have objective tools to know anything on Necro build usages.

I do not know the distribution of builds for PvP Necros.

I never and still do not mean “most/majority.” And you cannot soundly show that I have. I’ve said on the contrary and I have showed to be consistent on this starting 5 days ago.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-how-can-I-beat-CND-with-a-necro/page/3#post2535662

sorrow saying “most” does not mean I mean “most.” Bhawb saying “very common” does not mean I mean most. Reread that example with the girl.

Here’s another good example:
A girl says, "Many people like this candy. This candy is popular. I do not mean ‘popular’ to necessarily imply ‘most/majority.’ "
“I’ll show you examples from people that lead me to believe this candy is popular.”
“This guy says the majority of people like this candy.”
“This guy says this candy is very common.”
Then the girl goes on to say, “Sentiments like these are why I believe this candy is popular and that many people eat it.”
Why do you assume the girl believes most/majority in this scenario? Silly.

How are you still arguing that I meant “most/majority” when I’ve said many times starting 5 days ago that I do not.

I even clarified that I do not for you multiple times.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-how-can-I-beat-CND-with-a-necro/page/2#post2535427

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-how-can-I-beat-CND-with-a-necro/page/3#post2535662

Yet you keep saying I do based on your saying I “pretty much said most Condition go Rabid.” And you claim that sorrow’s use of “most” and Bhawb’s use of “very common” means I mean most/majority.

I’ve already said it is my belief that many PvP Necros go Rabid based on my evaluation of the the Necro forum atmosphere.

So Condition Necros are popular, right? And you said pretty much most Condition Necros are running full Rabid?

I never said most. You said I “pretty much most.” Why does your saying that mean I meant that? Especially when I’ve said otherwise. And especially when you’ve asked me to clarify many times and I’ve confirmed each time.

Full rabid is the only and best option for necromancers in any form of PvP.
Any condition necro you see around is most likely running full Rabid.

Why does sorrow believing “most” means I do? I used him as an example to show it’s not unheard of that Rabid is popular in among PvP Necros in the forum. I do not use "popular’ here to mean “majority” either. If I find examples of people saying something is used by most, then they would agree it is also popular. It does not mean I believe it is used by the majority.

From Bhawb.7408
Rabid has always been, and probably always will be a very common gear stat for Necromancers.
From you: If those doesn’t imply “most”, then surely the problem here is not me.

I don’t personally know what Bhawb means by “very common.” But “very common” does not necessarily mean “most.” Show me an authority (besides you) saying “very common” necessarily means “majority/most.” And even if Bhawb did mean “most/majority” refer back to my comments on sorrow and my example below.

It seems you have trouble finding me to mean “most/majority.” Your only evidence are:

1) You say I “pretty much mean most” yet I have not agreed to your accessment.

2) sorrow said most.

3) Bhawb said “very common.”

How do these show I mean “most/majority” when I’ve said many times since 5 days ago that I do not?

Ridiculous. You have yet to show where I said I meant “most/majority.” You keep tiptoeing around this issue. It’s even more ridiculous because I’ve said explicitly many times that I do not.

Here’s another good example:

A girl says, "Many people like this candy. This candy is popular. I do not mean ‘popular’ to necessarily imply ‘most/majority.’ "

“I’ll show you examples from people that lead me to believe this candy is popular.”

“This guy says the majority of people like this candy.”

“This guy says this candy is very common.”

Then the girl goes on to say, “Sentiments like these are why I believe this candy is popular and that many people eat it.”

Why do you assume the girl believes most/majority in this scenario? Silly.

You know your argument is weak when you accuse the other person of saying “you pretty much said so-and-so” when you haven’t found a direct quote of that person saying so-and-so. And that person can quote from 5 days ago that they do not mean so-and-so.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I can say,
“It seems that S/D is popular and probably many Thief uses it.”

But I cannot say without evidence,
“S/D is popular because many Thief uses it.”

And here is what you said;

I’ve already said it is my belief that many PvP Necros go Rabid based on my evaluation of the the Necro forum atmosphere.

And since you cannot show proof, it is proper to take the humble approach.

I see this is what you’re caught up on. You think I am saying “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros because many PvP Necros use it.”

If that’s what you’ve inferred, then rest assured I’ve never meant and still do not mean “many implies popular” in all scenarios. And I do not believe “many” = “popular” necessarily, just as I do not believe “popular” = “majority” necessarily.

When you criticized my use of “many” and told me to use “some” instead, I provided two scenarios.

First scenario I linked the grammar link. I say you cannot draw a line on when an amount is large enough so that someone is allowed to use “many.” In this scenario, I say regardless of whether or not I believe it is “popular,” I can still use “many” as long as I believe the number is large enough to me. You have no grounds for argument by telling me I should be “humble” and you have no authority to tell me when an indefinite number is “large.”

Second scenario. I go on to say that if you’ve inferred from my use of “many” that I believe “popular” then you are correct in this instance. This does not mean that I am saying “many implies popular” in all cases! This simply meant that I am adding onto it! That is why I separated in into two parts.

First part is to justify that even if I hadn’t meant “popular” when I said “many,” the grammar link does not say I cannot use “many.”

Second part is to make the claim that I do believe Rabid is popular among PvP Necros. But this does not mean I believe “many” always implies “popular.”

So here are two statements that I stand by:

1) I believe many PvP Necros based on my experience with the Necro forum go Rabid.

2) I believe Rabid is popular among PvP Necros based on my experience with the Necro forum.

In addition:

A) I cannot know for sure how builds PvP Necros use. I make no claim of having such knowledge.

B) I have never meant “many” to necessarily imply “popular.”

C) Something can be both “many” and “popular” and not necessarily mean “most/majority.”

Here are things I’m caught up on:

1. You keep saying I meant “most” or “majority” when I did not and still don’t.

2. You told Craig “popular means majority.” It does not necessarily mean majority. And when I used popular for the first time, I’ve added that addendum that I do not mean most/majority.

3. You seemingly are unable to separate my knowledge from my belief. My knowledge that I cannot know how many Necros actually use Rabid. My belief from my personal experience with the Necro forum that Rabid is popular and many PvP Necros use it.

4. I brought up my belief based on the Necro forum because you told me to check the Necro forum. We both know that the Necro forum does not offer any tools for objective knowledge. So I take this as an invitation from you to test my subjective belief. And my subjective belief from being both a frequenter of the Necro forum and creating that thread is that I believe Rabid is popular among PvP Necros.

No proof exists for the stranger to say, “Matt Damon is popular among girls. And many girls like Matt Damon.” He can say it. He is saying it based on his experience. He is not claiming he knows such proof.

Hardly anyone goes around avoiding “many/few/popular” because they don’t have have objective proof beyond their experiences. And I’ve already said on the grounds of objective proof, I make no claims of knowledge. It seems so hard for you to understand this.

Why should they restrict themselves from using “many/few/popular” based on their experience?

Especially if they’ve clarified further by adding that they cannot know for sure and thus will make no attempt to say they know. And that their use of it is in a personal belief based on their experience.

sorrow.2364:

Haley.2390:

Hey, Bhawb. When you say that Rabid is “very common” for PvP Necros, do you mean “most” or “majority” of PvP Necros go Rabid?

My take from your use of “very common” is that you did not necessarily mean “most” or the “majority” of PvP Necros choose Rabid.

But this Thief in the Thief forum believes you do.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Even Bhawb.7408 made this statement;

Rabid has always been, and probably always will be a very common gear stat for Necromancers.

As oppose to “uncommon” or “rare”, what does “very common” mean if not “most?”

So please do tell, what do you mean again?

There is no point to ask people here in the Necromancer forum.
You can get your answer by yourself watching the PAX qualifiers and count how many Necromancers were running an amulet different from Rabid.
I counted none, but I may have missed one.

I’m actually interested in all forms of PvP (WvW/sPvP/tPvP) among PvP Necros in general (not just the top tier tPvP Necros.)

Bhawb used “very common” here and this Thief claims that “very common” necessarily means “most”

Bhawb.7408:

Sorry if this discussion has been misleading. Rabid has always been, and probably always will be a very common gear stat for Necromancers.

For WvW I think Rabid is more common, and better than its s/tPvP brother, as there exists a much higher stat ceiling, and toughness/condition damage synergy gives much more meaning there (whereas in sPvP its like 1 damage per tick of bleeds).

To reiterate!

1) You can say something is “many” and “popular” and not necessarily mean “most” or “majority.”

2) You can say “very common” and not necessarily mean “most” or “majority.”

3) You can say you have no way of knowing for sure, but your experience gives you a belief on the matter. Person A can say he cannot know if God exists for sure, but he can say he still believes in God despite not knowing for sure (also called an agnostic theist.)

Yet you continue to try use “popular” and (now) “very common” to necessarily mean “most” or “majority.” You are wrong in that assumption and have no authority to back that up (and I’ve shown you both Oxford and Merriam-Webster on definitions for “popular” and “common,” there are no section for specifically “very common.” The definitions from both dictionaries do not necessitate “popular” to mean “most/majority,” and how are you going to draw “very common” to necessarily mean “most/majority” from these authorities?)

So why do you keep trying to argue? I am not going to argue with your inferences of what I meant if such inferences do not agree with both what I mean and what I’ve explicitly said.

Again, here are my stances. Do not taint them with your inferences that you cannot soundly back up. Your attempts at reading in between the lines and making inferences fails when I’ve explicitly said otherwise many times before and esteemed dictionaries do not agree with you.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-how-can-I-beat-CND-with-a-necro/page/3#post2535662

I explicitly (in an extremely clear manner for your sake) say I never did and still don’t mean “most” or “majority” in there.

Also, I am reposting this post on “very common” since you did not address it and I’ve corrected a minor typo in it.

Haley.2390:

“It’s very common for girls at my alma mater to major in Microcellular Biology.”

You take this to mean I’m talking about the “majority of girls” or “most girls”?

If you do, that’s your prerogative, but it does not necessitate that I mean “most” or “majority” and there are no authority stating so.

If I wanted to mean “most” or “majority,” I would simply use “most” or "majority."

And here are my previous posts on how I am not necessarily implying “most” or “majority.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-how-can-I-beat-CND-with-a-necro/page/2#post2535427

Anything I said that you felt was “misleading” because you felt I meant “most” or “majority” even though I have explicitly said otherwise many times, is your fault. You’re arguing against a ghost of a stance that I have not held nor am currently holding.

You cannot argue with me on true knowledge of what PvP Necros use because I’ve already said multiple times that I make no claims on this other than that there are no tools to know with certainty so I cannot know.

And to wrap everything up. Should you try to argue with my belief from my personal experience with the Necro forum that Rabid is popular (no implications of “most” or “majority”) for PvP Necros, then this example will illustrate that there’s nothing to talk about:

A stranger says, “Many girls like Matt Damon. Matt Damon is popular among girls. It is very common for girls to like Matt Damon.”

You have no platform to stand on to accuse that person of necessarily meaning “The majority of girls like Matt Damon.”

Also, if you wanted to say to the stranger, "You are wrong! You should be humble and have said ‘some,’ instead of ‘many,’ " then go ahead. But that doesn’t mean you’ve got a justified argument. It just means you are out of touch with reality and are not bringing anything on the table to argue about. It should be obvious that that stranger is not claiming he knows with scientific certainty how many girls like Matt Damon. It should be obvious that stranger is talking about his personal experiences with girls he interacts with.

And in my case, it should be especially obvious since I’ve said early on that I cannot know for sure and that my belief from my experiences with the Necro forum are unscientific/non-technical/not empirical.

Let’s go back to my restaurant example again.

My city has a population of 800,000. My favorite restaurant houses up to 40. Every day that I go to this restaurant, it is almost full.

I make both statements:

1. “Many people in my city go to my favorite restaurant.”

2. “My favorite restaurant in my city is popular.”

These are not scientific claims. These do not show absolute knowledge! I do not know how many people go to the restaurant when I’m not there! I do not claim that the majority or most people in my city go there! I do not claim to know without a doubt how many people go there!

People talk like this all the time! If you get into an argument every time someone makes such a statement, then that’s your choice.

Again, how do you come up with that assessment without tools? Often times, someone will reply to that saying, “you just pull that one out of your kitten ”

How do people who say, “Many girls like Matt Damon. Matt Damon is popular among girls,” mean?

Do you believe they use a tool? You can say their experience is pulling it out of their own kitten .

Do you go around telling them that?

There are no tools to know for sure so I never attempted to make any assertions on knowing for sure.

I can say my experience on the Necro forum tells me in an unscientific manner that Rabid is popular among PvP Necros. It tells me nothing about the actual absolute truth.

Hey, Bhawb. When you say that Rabid is “very common” for PvP Necros, do you mean “most” or “majority” of PvP Necros go Rabid?

My take from your use of “very common” is that you did not necessarily mean “most” or the “majority” of PvP Necros choose Rabid.

But this Thief in the Thief forum believes you do.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Even Bhawb.7408 made this statement;

Rabid has always been, and probably always will be a very common gear stat for Necromancers.

As oppose to “uncommon” or “rare”, what does “very common” mean if not “most?”

So please do tell, what do you mean again?

“It’s very common for girls at my alma mater to major in Microcellular Biology.”

You take this to mean I’m talking about the “majority of girls” or “most girls”?

If you do, that’s your prerogative, but it does not necessitate that I mean “most” or “majority” and there are no authority stating so.

If I wanted to mean “most” or “majority,” I would simply use “most” or "majority."

I’ve already said using the Necro forum brings an unscientific belief.

Can you separate from belief vs. knowledge?

Just as when someone says, “Many girls like Matt Damon. He is popular among girls.”

There are no tools available to them. They are using their own experience to make that statement.

If only you’ve read my posts.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

As oppose to “uncommon” or “rare”, what does “very common” mean if not “most?”

So you believe “very common” necessarily means "most*?

Oxford dictionaries:
http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/common?q=common

Show me how it necessarily means “most.” Show me how from all the definitions of “common” that “very common” necessitates that “very common” means “most”? Can you even find an authoritative dictionary on specifically “very common”?

Stop grasping at straws. Geez. We will not argue based on your feeling that “very common” necessarily means most when there are no authoritative stances saying this is necessarily the case. You are not an authoritative stance.

If someone says, “Many girls like Matt Damon. He is popular among girls.”

Do you object and say, “You’re implying the majority of girls like Matt Damon! You are wrong!” ?

Do you object and say, “You do not know exactly how many girls like him! You should be humble and say some girls like him!” ?

Geez.

By the way, if you still don’t understand this, there is no hope.

My statements on my belief based on my experience are as valid as the statements in this example (and in my case, my statement cannot be shown to be true or false but I do not care and make no claims on this):

My city has a population of 800,000. My favorite restaurant can hold up to 40 people. Everyday I go, the restaurant is almost full.

Statement A. “Many people in my city go to my favorite restaurant.”

Statement B. “My favorite restaurant in my city is popular.”

Hardly anyone would object to someone who uses one or both of these statements. These two statements make no claims on “most” or “majority.”

Here, since it is obvious you get distracted easily.

I’ll list my stances that I have gone over many times.

1. I know there is no way to know with certainty what builds PvP Necros use. There are no tools to know this.

2) I believe many PvP Necros go Rabid based on my experience with the Necro forum and the thread I made there.

3) I believe a lot of PvP Necros go Rabid based on my experience with the Necro forum and the thread I made there.

4) I believe Rabid is popular for PvP Necros based on my experience with the Necro forum and the thread I made there.

5) I have never said the “majority” of PvP Necros go Rabid. Nor do I believe it.

6) I have never said “most” PvP Necros go Rabid. Nor do I believe it.

7) When someone says something is both “many” and “popular” they do not necessarily mean “most” or “majority.”

How much clearer can I be? I’ve already discussed stances on empirical knowledge and unscientific belief early on (read 5 days ago.)

Do not misrepresent my meanings.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

So you are assuming I meant “majority” or “most” even though you can’t find an explicit quote where I did? And you are all basing this on feeling that I did?

Yet I have quotes explicitly saying I don’t mean “most” or “majority” many times starting 5 days ago?

If a Definition of the word ABC has 3 definitions. Definition 1, 2, and 3. And I say when I use the word “ABC” explicitly 5 days ago while introducing that word that I am not implying Definition 3, why are you trying to say I am? If I meant Definition 2 and hadn’t said it in the beginning explicitly, yet I said in the beginning I do not mean Definition 3, why do you feel it is ok to assume I meant Definition 3?

Here’s the problem;
Using def#1 and #2 doesn’t make any sense, but using def#3 makes sense but you’re insisting that def#3 is not what you meant. What else is left?

Which brought us to this;
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-how-can-I-beat-CND-with-a-necro/page/2#post2535436

Let’s be clear here. You think my definitions from Oxford/Merriam Webster do not make sense in this case?

Oxford:
“liked or admired by many people or by a particular person or group”

You think it does not make sense to say “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros” in this context?

Merriam-Webster:
“frequently encountered or widely accepted”

You think it does not make sense to say “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros” in this context?

So you are assuming I meant “majority” or “most” even though you can’t find an explicit quote where I did? And you are all basing this on feeling that I did?

Yet I have quotes explicitly saying I don’t mean “most” or “majority” many times starting 5 days ago? And I continue to repeat that and be redundant on it and have my examples reflect that over and over? And all you are doing is talking about what you feel yet you cannot find explicit quotes? Over and over. You will never find that explicit quote because I have said explicitly many times I have not ever meant “most” or “majority.”

If a Definition of the word ABC has 3 definitions. Definition 1, 2, and 3. And I say when I use the word “ABC” explicitly 5 days ago while introducing that word that I am not implying Definition 3, why are you trying to say I am? If I meant Definition 2 and hadn’t said it in the beginning explicitly, yet I said in the beginning I do not mean Definition 3, why do you feel it is ok to assume I meant Definition 3?

Haley.2390:

If you continue to believe I am not clear that I do not mean “majority” or “most” after

1) I said 5 days ago:

popular-no necessary implication that most or the majority of Necros use it

2) I said 18 hours ago:

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.
I’ve already listed the definitions from Oxford and Merriam-Webster that my use of “popular” means! Why would you ask? Because you didn’t read that post? Why am I not surprised?
I make two statements. “Many PvP Necros go Rabid” and “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros.” Neither statement necessarily implies “most” or “majority.”
I said that very early on. And I repeated myself constantly that I never meant “majority” or “most.”
And you are working all this on assuming my use of “popular” means “majority” yet all the while I said I do not mean “most” or “majority.”
You truly did not read or understand my posts. I’m glad someone like Craig did.

3) I said just now:

Why is it misleading? I am stating it again here: I never meant and still do not mean “majority” or “most.” Is that clear enough?
I’ve already said “popular” can mean these definitions I linked:
From Oxford (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/popular)
Definition #1: “liked or admired by many people or by a particular person or group:”
Example Oxford uses: “these cheeses are very popular in Europe”
From Merriam-Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/popular)
Definition #3: “frequently encountered or widely accepted”
I’ve linked this twice before. And said it many times.

Then you are a hopeless cause. There is no light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to discussing with you as you obviously have problems understanding words.

If you continue to believe I am not clear that I do not mean “majority” or “most” after

1) I said 5 days ago:

popular-no necessary implication that most or the majority of Necros use it

2) I said 18 hours ago:

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.
I’ve already listed the definitions from Oxford and Merriam-Webster that my use of “popular” means! Why would you ask? Because you didn’t read that post? Why am I not surprised?
I make two statements. “Many PvP Necros go Rabid” and “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros.” Neither statement necessarily implies “most” or “majority.”
I said that very early on. And I repeated myself constantly that I never meant “majority” or “most.”
And you are working all this on assuming my use of “popular” means “majority” yet all the while I said I do not mean “most” or “majority.”
You truly did not read or understand my posts. I’m glad someone like Craig did.

3) I said just now:

Why is it misleading? I am stating it again here: I never meant and still do not mean “majority” or “most.” Is that clear enough?
I’ve already said “popular” can mean these definitions I linked:
From Oxford (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/popular)
Definition #1: “liked or admired by many people or by a particular person or group:”
Example Oxford uses: “these cheeses are very popular in Europe”
From Merriam-Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/popular)
Definition #3: “frequently encountered or widely accepted”
I’ve linked this twice before. And said it many times.

Then you are a hopeless cause. There is no light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to discussing with you as you obviously have problems understanding words.

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And the one you’re insisting is this;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

This one implies that “most” Necro runs Rabid. It doesn’t imply “many” whatsoever.

You are the one saying “popular” implies “most” in the part. And I’ve shown you “popular” does not imply “most.”

Are you crazy or just blinded by rage?

Yes, that is within the context of your reply prior that stating;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”?

What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.

I’ve already listed the definitions from Oxford and Merriam-Webster that my use of “popular” means! Why would you ask? Because you didn’t read that post? Why am I not surprised?

I make two statements. “Many PvP Necros go Rabid” and “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros.” Neither statement necessarily implies “most” or “majority.”

I said that very early on. And I repeated myself constantly that I never meant “majority” or “most.”

And you are working all this on assuming my use of “popular” means “majority” yet all the while I said I do not mean “most” or “majority.”

You truly did not read or understand my posts. I’m glad someone like Craig did.

I am quoting this again. I cannot believe you think I have not been clear on my not meaning “majority” or “most.”

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

“My favorite restaurant in my city is popular and it has many people going there.”

That statement is very different from this statement.

Haley.2390:

“There are many people in my town who go to my favorite restaurant.”

If you can’t see the difference, then it is apparent that I am not the one who has a problem understanding here

Oh my god. Look back at my old example. I used both separately in my restaurant example. I should have known you didn’t bother reading my restaurant example. I used it to justify both “many” and “popular.” You truly are not reading my posts.

Haley.2390:

No you’re wrong. It implies that Rabid Condition does not have the “large” number you’ve been insisting in comparison to the number of other non-Rabid-Condition builds.

Who said anything about in comparison to non-Rabid Condition builds (that would only make sense if I had said “most” or “majority”? Why are you using this out of the blue to justify yourself?

When I say “A large indefinite number of people from my town go to my favorite restaurant” do you take that to mean that the number I’m referencing to is large compared to everyone else in my town who does not go to the restaurant?

Say my town has a population of 800,000. I go to my favorite restaurant that can house 40 people max. And everyday I go, almost every seat is filled. Hardly anyone would say I cannot say “many (a large indefinite number of) people from my town go to that restaurant.” If you disagree here, you are either being obtuse, stubborn, or simply have no case.

And in that same scenario, hardly anyone would find it wrong for me to say that restaurant is popular.

It doesn’t take a psychic to see you’re not handling this well.

Again, from one of the Carrion supporters, Bhawb. Who I recognize as very active in both the Necro forum and the Necro community (e.g. But of Corpse all Necro guild and his podcast interview with competitive tPvP Necro Gibbly):

Bhawb.7408:

It is completely valid to say Rabid is popular. There is a lot of talk about Carrion being better, and I know that a lot of higher tier PvPers used Carrion, it isn’t remotely inaccurate to say that Rabid is still popular. Especially if you look at recent tournaments with people who just started playing Necro, a lot of them are using Rabid.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”? What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Until now, you have not given a definite answer.

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And the one you’re insisting is this;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

This one implies that “most” Necro runs Rabid. It doesn’t imply “many” whatsoever.

You are the one saying “popular” implies “most” in the part. And I’ve shown you “popular” does not imply “most.”

Are you crazy or just blinded by rage?

Yes, that is within the context of your reply prior that stating;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”?

What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.

You truly do not bother understanding my posts and gloss over words. You just assume a position I do not hold and argue against it.

Unproductive.

Your posts are understandably misleading.

You’re the one pulling definitions off of dictionaries, not me, even though a simple answer to my question will reveal the truth.

You want productive discussion? Then answer this question.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

- I’ve shown that popular in not necessarily means many
- You claim that popular in not necessarily means most or majority

So I asked you, if it means neither, then what else does it mean within the context of your statement “Many Necro…?”

What then are you implying here?

Why is it misleading? I am stating it again here: I never meant and still do not mean “majority” or “most.” Is that clear enough?

I’ve already said “popular” can mean these definitions I linked:

From Oxford (http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/popular)

Definition #1: “liked or admired by many people or by a particular person or group:”
Example Oxford uses: “these cheeses are very popular in Europe”

From Merriam-Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/popular)

Definition #3: “frequently encountered or widely accepted”

I’ve linked this twice before. And said it many times.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”? What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Until now, you have not given a definite answer.

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And the one you’re insisting is this;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

This one implies that “most” Necro runs Rabid. It doesn’t imply “many” whatsoever.

You are the one saying “popular” implies “most” in the part. And I’ve shown you “popular” does not imply “most.”

Are you crazy or just blinded by rage?

Yes, that is within the context of your reply prior that stating;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”?

What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.

You truly do not bother understanding my posts and gloss over words. You just assume a position I do not hold and argue against it. You have demonstrated with your last response that I have given you too much credit in your willingness (or ability) to understand my words.

Unproductive.

Yes, you can use “many” and not imply “popular.”

You can use “popular” and not imply “majority.”

You can use “many” and “popular” and not imply “majority.” Especially obvious after the person says their use of “popular” has no necessarily implication of “most” or “majority.”

I’ve already linked you Oxford/Merriam-Webster on this.

Restaurant example again: My city has a population of 800,000. My favorite restaurant restaurant can house up to 40 people. Everyday I go, it is almost packed. Hardly anyone would object to my saying, “My favorite restaurant in my city is popular and it has many people going there.”

Your unwillingness to actually understand my words makes this an unproductive conversation.

You said I haven’t answered that until now. I just quoted my answer to that using exclamations of “thank god!” to catch your attention.

There are many other arguments we’ve had, and I’ve addressed them all. We can single them out after you show a willingness (or ability) to understand my words.

flow.6043:

Every untargeted attack will hit stealthed units.
Dark Path is untargeted too btw, it teleports you to the first target it hits, not necessarily the one you aimed at. Plus, the projectile is homing as long as you had a target selected at the end of the casting animation, therefore it will follow a thief even if he’s in stealth.

I haven’t done this for months, so I don’t know if it’s been fixed yet or not.

But back then, if you had autotargetting on and there are no other enemies around except a stealthed enemy, your Staff #1 and DS #1 would autotrack the target through stealth.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Craig.2403:

Vincent, I think you’re confusing the definition of “many” and “most.” Many just means “a lot,” it does not imply a majority in any way. Therefore, Haley’s statements are correct, in that “many” people go to the restaurant, even though it’s not the majority. However, “most” does imply a majority, and thus had Haley used “most” in these scenarios, they would have been incorrect. As it stands now, neither of you are incorrect, as the majority certainly isn’t rabid, but there are many that do run rabid.

Actually no.

Haley uses “popular” to justify “many”.

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

The fallacy in your statement lies in your assumption that “popular = many” because that’s not necessarily true.

So by your observation, Haley is abusing the word “many” when Haley suppose to be using “most”, but either way, the statement is false.

Let’s focus on this bold text here.

You said “popular” means “majority” and I showed you with Oxford/Merriam-Webster that this isn’t necessarily the case. I even chose the definitions for you that I meant by “popular.” I’ve also explicitly said I did not mean “most” or “majority” many times.

Justify that.

It is important since it is your premise on further arguing with me.

You can either try to justify that “popular” necessarily means “majority” (you can’t.) Or you can try to find where I explicitly said I meant “most” or “majority” (you can’t as I’ve said on the contrary many times and have listed examples that illustrated this. I even explicitly said multiple times that I hold no opinion on the matter of what the majority of PvP Necros use.)

Tiptoeing about by claiming supposedly “misleading” statements won’t get you out of having to quote where I explicitly meant “majority” or “most.” You keep quoting my use of “many” and “popular” instead. I can quote many times where I said I am not arguing that “most” or “majority” of PvP Necros choose Rabid.

From 4 days ago:

Haley.2390:

I do believe Rabid Condition Necros are popular. And if you object that it’s a popular choice (popular-no necessary implication that most or the majority of Necros use it) and you tell me that it’s not a popular build, then I’ll disagree with you. And simply telling me to check the Necro forum does nothing, as I already do.

It’s funny that you accused me of being in a tight spot.

Until you concisely and clearly justify yourself here, then you remain in a tight spot. For your next response, focus on addressing this post only (your saying that “popular” means “majority” and your addressing me with that assumption even though I said 4 days ago my use of “popular” does not necessarily imply “most” or “majority.”) Then once you are able to do it in a reasonable and sound manner, then we’ll move on to other discussions.

Why is it misleading? I explicitly said I do not mean majority or most many times starting early on.

Don’t argue for the sake of arguing. And don’t misrepresent my stance.

I know you either haven’t read the definitions I’ve quoted above or you don’t understand them.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

..is misleading because I know that you said “many” but your statement means “most”.

And how do you justify my use of “popular” means “most” when I’ve said many times and early on it doesn’t?

Are you trying to say “popular” either means “many” or “most” and nothing else? I know you haven’t read or haven’t understood the Oxford or Merriam-Webster dictionaries snippets I put forth yet.

Here, I’ll link the dictionary snippets again:

Here are 3 definitions for “popular” by Oxford dictionaries:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/popular?q=popular

Definition #1: “liked, admired, or enjoyed by many people or by a particular person or group”

And here are 4 by Merriam-Webster:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/popular

Definition #3: “frequently encountered or widely accepted”

I would hope you hold Oxford and Merriam-Webster dictionaries in high esteem. Also I hope you understand that dictionaries list multiple definitions for words. And these dictionaries separate each definition by numbers. This is what my “Definition #” refers to.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And the one you’re insisting is this;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

This one implies that “most” Necro runs Rabid. It doesn’t imply “many” whatsoever.

You are the one saying “popular” implies “most” in the part. And I’ve shown you “popular” does not imply “most.”

Are you crazy or just blinded by rage?

Yes, that is within the context of your reply prior that stating;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

Are you saying that your own statement doesn’t necessarily mean “most” or “majority”?

What else does it mean then? Surely not “many”.

Yes! Thank God! I’ve been saying it so many times. And your constantly accusing me of meaning “majority” and “most” despite how many times I say otherwise was unproductive.

I’ve already listed the definitions from Oxford and Merriam-Webster that my use of “popular” means! Why would you ask? Because you didn’t read that post? Why am I not surprised?

I make two statements. “Many PvP Necros go Rabid” and “Rabid is popular among PvP Necros.” Neither statement necessarily implies “most” or “majority.”

I said that very early on. And I repeated myself constantly that I never meant “majority” or “most.”

And you are working all this on assuming my use of “popular” means “majority” yet all the while I said I do not mean “most” or “majority.”

You truly did not read or understand my posts. I’m glad someone like Craig did.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

And the one you’re insisting is this;

Rabid is a popular choice for Necros.

This one implies that “most” Necro runs Rabid. It doesn’t imply “many” whatsoever.

You are the one saying “popular” implies “most” in that part. And I’ve shown you “popular” does not imply “most.”

Are you crazy or just blinded by rage?

“Popular” does not imply “most.” I can say “Rabid is popular for PvP Necros.” And I can say “Many PvP Necros go Rabid.” Neither statements imply “most” or “majority,” as already shown by my dictionary links by Oxford and Merriam-Webster.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Where did you even got this notion from?

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Craig.2403:

Vincent, I think you’re confusing the definition of “many” and “most.” Many just means “a lot,” it does not imply a majority in any way. Therefore, Haley’s statements are correct, in that “many” people go to the restaurant, even though it’s not the majority. However, “most” does imply a majority, and thus had Haley used “most” in these scenarios, they would have been incorrect. As it stands now, neither of you are incorrect, as the majority certainly isn’t rabid, but there are many that do run rabid.

Actually no.

Haley uses “popular” to justify “many”.

Popular means “majority”, thus I said to Haley;

The fallacy in your statement lies in your assumption that “popular = many” because that’s not necessarily true.

So by your observation, Haley is abusing the word “many” when Haley suppose to be using “most”, but either way, the statement is false.

What authority says “popular” necessarily means “most” or “majority”? And why would you think I meant “majority” when I clearly and explicitly said I never meant “most” or “majority” many times?

You have a forgetful/selective memory, didn’t bother understanding my posts where I repeated these sentiments many times, and/or are grasping at straws.

In addition, my restaurant example strongly reflects that I never meant “most” or “majority.” My restaurant example was also used for both “many” and “popular.” Do you really think that when someone says a restaurant is popular in a city they mean most people in the city go there?

Here are 3 definitions for “popular” by Oxford dictionaries:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/popular?q=popular

Definition #1: “liked, admired, or enjoyed by many people or by a particular person or group”

And here are 4 by Merriam-Webster:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/popular

Definition #3: “frequently encountered or widely accepted”

I would hope you hold Oxford and Merriam-Webster dictionaries in high esteem.

You cannot show me how these authoritative dictionaries necessitate that “popular” means “most” or “majority.”

Remember, dictionaries list multiple meanings for words. Coupled that with my explicitly saying I do not mean “most” or “majority” and my restaurant analogy, and any competent person would not try and say I meant “most” or “majority.”

I would say “McDonald’s is a popular place for people to eat” and hardly anyone would get their panties twisted over that statement. Does that statement necessarily show that I meant most people go there to eat or that most people who go out to eat go there? No.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Haley.2390:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Your statement is valid, unfortunately it is false.

My statement is valid. There is no way to justify it as technically true or false with 100% certainty. I’ve already gone over that many, many, many times.

You’re simply too blinded by rage to bother reading carefully.

It simply boils down to this; your statement is not necessarily true, therefore it is false.

And I look it up, it called “Appeal to the People” fallacy.

I’ve already gone over that so many times. I’ve already said such statements cannot be shown to be necessarily true or false so many times. I’ve already said it is my belief that many PvP Necros go Rabid based on my evaluation of the the Necro forum atmosphere.

Appeal to the People Fallacy does not hold here as I’ve already said that statement cannot be shown to be true or false. I explicitly mentioned my belief.

Wonder why I keep asking what you are trying to get at?

Craig.2403:

Vincent, I think you’re confusing the definition of “many” and “most.” Many just means “a lot,” it does not imply a majority in any way. Therefore, Haley’s statements are correct, in that “many” people go to the restaurant, even though it’s not the majority. However, “most” does imply a majority, and thus had Haley used “most” in these scenarios, they would have been incorrect. As it stands now, neither of you are incorrect, as the majority certainly isn’t rabid, but there are many that do run rabid.

Thank you.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Your statement is valid, unfortunately it is false.

My statement is valid. There is no way to justify it as technically true or false with 100% certainty. I’ve already gone over that many, many, many times.

You’re simply too blinded by rage to bother reading carefully.

Bhawb.7408:

It is completely valid to say Rabid is popular. There is a lot of talk about Carrion being better, and I know that a lot of higher tier PvPers used Carrion, it isn’t remotely inaccurate to say that Rabid is still popular. Especially if you look at recent tournaments with people who just started playing Necro, a lot of them are using Rabid.

Yeah, it was unfortunate that a good discussion of Carrion vs. Rabid meant that I cannot say:

“Rabid is popular among PvP Necros.”

or

“Many PvP Necros use Rabid.”

or, similarly, (http://www.gingersoftware.com/grammarbook/adjectives/some-vs-many/)

“A large indefinite number of PvP Necros use Rabid.”

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Don’t be ridiculous. In that same thread, you’ll find others suggesting Carrion over Rabid, or other build other than Rabid.

Haley.2390:

How does their suggesting Carrion over Rabid imply Rabid is not popular? I prefer Carrion over Rabid, too, but I recognize that the general atmosphere of the Necro forum (which you referred me to) is that Rabid is popular.

No you’re wrong. It implies that Rabid Condition does not have the “large” number you’ve been insisting in comparison to the number of other non-Rabid-Condition builds.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-how-can-I-beat-CND-with-a-necro/page/2#post2529963

No you’re wrong. It implies that Rabid Condition does not have the “large” number you’ve been insisting in comparison to the number of other non-Rabid-Condition builds.

Who said anything about in comparison to non-Rabid Condition builds (that would only make sense if I had said “most” or “majority”? Why are you using this out of the blue to justify yourself?

When I say “A large indefinite number of people from my town go to my favorite restaurant” do you take that to mean that the number I’m referencing to is large compared to everyone else in my town who does not go to the restaurant?

Say my town has a population of 800,000. I go to my favorite restaurant that can house 40 people max. And everyday I go, almost every seat is filled. Hardly anyone would say I cannot say “many (a large indefinite number of) people from my town go to that restaurant.” If you disagree here, you are either being obtuse, stubborn, or simply have no case.

And in that same scenario, hardly anyone would find it wrong for me to say that restaurant is popular.

It doesn’t take a psychic to see you’re not handling this well.

Again, from one of the Carrion supporters, Bhawb. Who I recognize as very active in both the Necro forum and the Necro community (e.g. But of Corpse all Necro guild and his podcast interview with competitive tPvP Necro Gibbly):

Bhawb.7408:

It is completely valid to say Rabid is popular. There is a lot of talk about Carrion being better, and I know that a lot of higher tier PvPers used Carrion, it isn’t remotely inaccurate to say that Rabid is still popular. Especially if you look at recent tournaments with people who just started playing Necro, a lot of them are using Rabid.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Don’t be ridiculous. In that same thread, you’ll find others suggesting Carrion over Rabid, or other build other than Rabid.

How does their suggesting Carrion over Rabid imply Rabid is not popular? I prefer Carrion over Rabid, too, but I recognize that the general atmosphere of the Necro forum (which you referred me to) is that Rabid is popular.

I had hope you would calm down, but you are simply too angry to take a step back and see things clearly.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Popular-gear-stats-for-Necros-in-PvP

Bhawb is a frequent poster on the Necro forum, he was one of those who support Carrion over Rabid in that thread. He recognizes that Rabid is popular in this thread.

Bhawb.7408:

It is completely valid to say Rabid is popular. There is a lot of talk about Carrion being better, and I know that a lot of higher tier PvPers used Carrion, it isn’t remotely inaccurate to say that Rabid is still popular. Especially if you look at recent tournaments with people who just started playing Necro, a lot of them are using Rabid.

Bhawb.7408:

Haley.2390:

Thread is leading to other discussions, that’s good, too.

But I want to ask one of the questions from my OP again.

Is Rabid a popular choice for Necros in PvP?

I see some Necros saying it is and others saying neither way, but I don’t see any Necros saying that Rabid is not a popular choice for Necros in PvP.

Regardless of whether or not you go full Rabid or whether or not you believe it is optimal, do you guys believe it is a popular choice for Necros in PvP?

I frequent this forum a lot, and even though I don’t go Rabid, my take from this forum is that I believe Rabid is a popular choice for Necros in PvP. I have no opinion on what most or the majority of Necros use, just that Rabid is popular. And I do not believe there is any way to know with absolute certainy—just wondering in the context of what can be gathered from the Necro forum.

Is there any compelling evidence from this forum to suggest I should not hold this belief?

Sorry if this discussion has been misleading. Rabid has always been, and probably always will be a very common gear stat for Necromancers.

For WvW I think Rabid is more common, and better than its s/tPvP brother, as there exists a much higher stat ceiling, and toughness/condition damage synergy gives much more meaning there (whereas in sPvP its like 1 damage per tick of bleeds).

Thanks for the clarification.

I’m just making sure I’m not out of line to say “Rabid is popular for PvP Necros” when someone tells me it should be evident from the Necro forum that I should not say that.

Blaine Tog.8304:

You may want to cross-post this thread over on the sPvP forum. They may be able to answer questions of sPvP popularity better than us here, or even just give you another data point.

Thanks for the reply. I thought of whether this forum or that was a better idea. I was thinking of PvP as encompassing all of sPvP/tPvP/WvW.

I thought it’d be more simple to make one post here rather than to make two posts (one in the sPvP section and the other in WvW discussion.)

Also, I was interested in the Necro forum’s general opinion specifically because I was asked to check here by someone who said it was evident on this forum that I should not say Rabid is popular among Necros in PvP.

Thread is leading to other discussions, that’s good, too.

But I want to ask one of the questions from my OP again.

Is Rabid a popular choice for Necros in PvP?

I see some Necros saying it is and others saying neither way, but I don’t see any Necros saying that Rabid is not a popular choice for Necros in PvP.

Regardless of whether or not you go full Rabid or whether or not you believe it is optimal, do you guys believe it is a popular choice for Necros in PvP?

I frequent this forum a lot, and even though I don’t go Rabid, my take from this forum is that I believe Rabid is a popular choice for Necros in PvP. I have no opinion on what most or the majority of Necros use, just that Rabid is popular. And I do not believe there is any way to know with absolute certainy—just wondering in the context of what can be gathered from the Necro forum.

Is there any compelling evidence from this forum to suggest I should not hold this belief?

Looking at all your posts, it shows that you’re just trying to talk your way out of the tight spot you gotten yourself into.

I disagree. You are still misunderstanding me.

It’s hard for me to believe that you are not angry given your accusations, saying I’m “full of kitten,” attacking things out of context, and most importantly, not understanding my posts.

If the misunderstanding is due to your view that my writing is sloppy (perhaps it is given how big my posts are), then I will summarize hopefully more clearly below.

We will ignore fluffs, things taken out of context, and we will refrain from unwarranted character attacks. We can get back to them once you’ve understood me.

I’ll put my succinct point-of-view in a Spoiler tag as to not further bloat this post.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

sorrow.2364:

This is just a false statement.
Necromancer’s can’t affort to invest everything into power because they lack damage cancelling capabilities (evades, invulnerability etc), so, considering that they are also light-armoured, they absolutely need to stack a decent amount of toughness to survive.

You can try it by yourself to see how much a berserker necro lasts.

Haley was quoting my statement, which is obviously misrepresented.

I was speaking within the context of a DS build specifically to handle a CnD troll build (not the CnD combo build Haley’s implying) and not Rabid Condition Build that Haley’s been insisting.

Nor I ever suggested to go Berserk Mode either.

My original post can be found here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/So-how-can-I-beat-CND-with-a-necro/first#post2478761

Have a great day.

If anyone cares about the drama, read our posts in their entirety. I stand by my posts. You objected to my saying Rabid is popular and told me to check the Necro forum.

Well, here we are.