Guild Wars 2

Aidan Savage.2078:

Truth be told, something like this is actually fairly unnecessary due to the ability to transmute the look of one item onto another.

You can’t transmute the male-look armour onto the female-look armour. And it still doesn’t solve the problem of the starting light armour being somewhat alienating for some players, or the ultimate expression of a female light armoured human (in the form of the tier 3 cultural armour) being a bikini and sarong with no alternative.

AwkwardStarfish.1827:

I like your addition to the OP, it really shows that it is possible for the male armor to look good on the female frame. Just a little bit of reskinning might be needed so that it really fits. Some people still seem confused as to what the issue is here, so perhaps put a line-up of all the skins from the light starter to show the difference.

Defualt Male: http://gw2armorgallery.com/armour/human/human-light-stand-start-male.jpg
Default Female: http://gw2armorgallery.com/armour/human/human-light-stand-start-female.jpg
New Female after editing: https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/144945/alternateDesign.png

This is NOT an issue of “this lady is showing too much skin, cover it up!” – this issue is about the huge differences between the male and female armor types. HarlequinWild is merely making it look like the armor is actually from the same set. If you’d rather the edits go the other way and make the male armor look like a frilly skirt and top, I’d be all for it – as long as the people wearing the armor look like they are wearing something from the same armor set!

Thank you

I was trying to show what it would be like to have the toggle on the trousers, but I was trying to do it quick which is why it kind of ate the midriff too.

Faowri.4159:

I’d honestly rather see more time spent on making the armours suit the races properly than the continued effort that clearly goes into gendering the armour when it only gets seen on 3 of the races at all.

That would be cool – if species was more important to a character’s identity and choice of clothing than gender.

Balsa.3951:

Was thinking the same why is that everytime a women start a tread by mention that she is a Women. Like it give her more power to be heared.

just ask for more armor and some which the style u want. I dont see why u try look it bad when females look sexy in compare to other games is GW2 a church anyway …

I don’t fully understand your argument and don’t really know where to start with a response.

Linnes.2678:

“MUH FEMINISM!”

Haters gonna hate

Linnes.2678:

Why can’t I have my male character look like a crossdresser then? Seriously…?

I fully support male characters having the option to wear female clothing. I can’t see why on earth that would be a problem. Dark Souls did a great job in that respect.

Linnes.2678:

There are plenty of options out there for female characters to dress appropriately.

Assuming appropriately = unsexualised in this context then yes, you’re right. That’s one of the fantastic things about GW2.

Electro.4173:

..You’re basically asking for them to give female characters 2 completely different visual appearances to toggle for every single set of armor in the game…

I’ve clarified this point a few times and edited my original post with it – I’m not asking for every armour set. Only the starter light set, and the tier 3 with the biggest differences (initially). It would be great if they then continued to work through the ones with a big difference gradually, but only when they have time.

It’s mainly the iconic armour that I’d like to have the option on. What you start with is your first impression, so important. And the tier 3 racial armour is the pinnacle and paragon of the race – so iconic and important. I think these sets deserve to feel more equal and welcoming.

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

What I meant was that the charr and asura use what at first glance seems to be androgyny for their armor, but at second glance all of their armor is male. Oftentimes when people aim for no gender, what they’re really saying is a non-sexual male, rarely something that includes feminine qualities. Masculinity is seen to be the baseline and thus androgynous. As such, I believe we need more feminine armors for both asura and the charr because they are literally all masculine. I have no problem with female characters wearing masculine clothing, in fact I support that, but when there is no choice for feminine armor there becomes a problem.

Feminine armour for both male and female?

I think a problem is that what is often considered masculine is merely practical. No practical female-specific clothes jump out at me. The men already wear skirts (not lacy ones) on the male armour. Would it just be more intricate decoration? Or more accessories like bows and lace?

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

… A simple solution that would avoid the problems presented by attempting to put armor on a new kind of frame would be to merely create new armors…

That is an option, but I think that some of the armour that has the biggest differences is starter pieces and iconic pieces like the tier 3 sets. And these are at the heart of the game, so I think they deserve to have some love.

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

Plenty of people want to skimpy but the problem is that there is no choice to the contrary. Give people a choice that’s easy to take…and you win. Congrats. Whoohoo.

Totally

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

(But please more feminine armor for charr and asura please please)

On a personal note that has nothing to do with the overall thread – I love the fact that charr and asura don’t give two kittens about gender. They simply don’t distinguish and the idea of there being some clothes that only boys should wear and some clothes that only girls should wear is something they’d find odd. Unless I misunderstood you and you meant more feminine armour for both genders in which case sweet, I totally agree (like a frilly frock for both male and female charr) – I might actually make a male if that was available.

(edited to remove an extraneous end quote)

MithranArkanere.8957:

There’s several sets that share name but are nothing alike between each other. It’s one of the many inconsistencies you’ll see in Guild Wars.

I would really love more consistency between items.

That would be a cool approach

MithranArkanere.8957:

…but adapting versions of existing pieces for both genders and all races, but it would still be a lot of work.

As I’ve said only for the females (for now) and only three of the races. And to start with probably just the light starter armour. Followed by the tier 3 racial armour.

It’s mainly the iconic pieces that I’d want this change done to – the armour sets which strongly represent the heart of guild wars 2.

ArchonWing.9480:

Well, most of the time it’s ok. Heavy armor at least has more “battle appropriate” wear for female characters. Sometimes the boobplates get annoying when it comes to dyes. I mean really, you get some weird combos where the boobplate stands out from the rest of the piece. No!

Then sometimes you look at the differences between light/medium human t3 armor and am just like WTF. I don’t want a big coat on my ranger but I’m certainly not putting that on her, and the other choice I can see is that corset duelist armor which is just as silly.

As for light female armor, I honestly don’t think some of them are actually clothes and would take the male counterpart. I mean some of those outfits look like they’re from a really sketchy anime…

And note I’m a dude whose female guardian wears the vigil miniskirt so it’s not like I’m particularly prudish or anything. (It could be a little longer, really, would be perfect), but I find those light/medium choices pretty lousy. They either show too much or too little. Light at least has some choices.

tl;dr I should not see my character’s underwear 65% of the time. Can you imagine that on a male toon?

:D Your post was both valid and amusing.

Honestly if I had the option to create a sexy male character whose underwear I see 65% of the time I might be more inclined to play male characters (why google for sexy men when I can conveniently have them combined with another hobby?). Sexier male armour is another major request I hear from lady players. I don’t think I’d want the undie-flashing male character though if it could make people feel less powerful or alienated.

AwkwardStarfish.1827:

Final Fantasy XIV is an example of a game that has a selection of armor choices for heroes that don’t look different when slapped on the opposite gender: http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/09/14/final-fantasy-xivs-gear-design-is-a-shining-example-of-gender-equality-in-games/

I just recently looked through those and they are pretty hawt. Dark Souls has an interesting approach too:
http://darksouls.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Dark_Souls:_Female_Armor_Set_Images
http://darksouls.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Dark_Souls:_Male_Armor_Set_Images

AwkwardStarfish.1827:

I’d love for ArenaNet to make less differences between the two genders when it comes to armor, but I don’t expect them to go back and change what is already in game. I’d just like them to keep equality in mind when developing future armor sets…

I would like them to give more options on key pieces – especially starting light armour, and some of the cultural armour. These are fairly major and iconic, and I think deserve more attention.

Uniles.2397:

>> Loads of really really good points <<

I agree with everything you said

Hannelore.8153:

I just want to say that its a myth that females hate the revealing armor. Actually, for many of us, its our preference. We like looking cute, sexy or whatever…

This has been my experience talking to the other women on the facebook group. There are strong voices going both ways.

Hannelore.8153:

…That said, I support this option, because I think being able to either embrace or break out of gender stereotypes (or, stick to a gender stereotype other than your own) is somenone’s right, and one of the core rights that we receive in MMOs given that we are hidden behind a virtual avatar.

That’s an awesome and progressive opinion and I think you rock.

Faowri.4159:

….So yeah, I don’t expect Anet to go back and address the current imbalances in sets, but it would be nice to see this adopted as a standard for future armour set designs.

I can see that, and your maxims are very cool.

I’d like to see starter light set looked at. This is your first introduction to the game and what you design your character around initially. It can be a little alienating to see your magus who can immolate people with her mind choosing to dress as a kittentail waitress.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

… and also this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/suggestions/Gendered-armour-splits-design-maxims/

That was really cool, thank you

Conncept.7638:

HarlequinWild.4359:

Just the armour skin.

Noooooot possible, male and female characters do not do not operate on the same modeling or animation structures, it would either require a ton of work on the models or the armors to adapt one to the other.

I’d be perfectly happy with some shortcuts initially. And for me the real priority is the starter armour set, so them just fixing that up with an alternative would be great.

I pictured them reworking the armour skins that have the biggest differences piece by piece and making them available as they’re done. I have virtually no experience with 3D modelling, but I’d hope that they could reuse a good bit of the work they’d done before with the male and female armour.

Kingkiller.9645:

I agree with the idea but not the method. Giving females access to make armour models would be too controversial, due to little cross-dressing theme it brings with it (nothing wrong with that, but if that isn’t the intent then it becomes controversial), as well as the fact that they’d have to add female clothing for men.

The idea of wearing the clothing of another gender still being controversial makes me feel very sad

Kingkiller.9645:

How about a modified armour for both genders? Not the armour of the opposite gender, but rather a look more “buff” (for females) or “sleek” (for males)??

That could be cute, I don’t mind what they call it.

lioka qiao.8734:

While we’re on the topic I’d like to get a real full length skirt for my human elementalist (or other soft female class). I had to “fake” it with the Magician leggings since I can dye the stockings to match my skin color. Other skirts are too short or don’t take dyes well.

The males have some pretty cool skirts.

Aidan Savage.2078:

HarlequinWild.4359:

Aidan Savage.2078:

Go look at the Heavy armor. Kinda hard to sexualize plate armor unless you add detailed nipples. But then you get the question of “why would you need nipples on armor?” And no, glass cutting isnt an acceptable answer.

During character creation on class selection there is like a paragon representation of each class. These descriptions are for those:

Human: the guardian is as you say pretty neutral, the warrior is in fishnets, a mini-skirt and some kind of metal boob-tube.

Norn: the warrior is in the above exact armour, the guardian has half an exposed pair of panties, impressive cleavage, exposed thighs and sides, with metal thigh-high booties.

Sylvari: the warrior is awesome, covered, no boobplate, just perfect (for my tastes). The guardian has cleavage and skin-tight plate-mail leggings, but otherwise is okay.

(edited for spelling of plate-male/mail)

You forget that nearly ALL of those armor sets you see, are the T3 racial armor.

I wouldn’t describe myself as forgetting that. I was more just pointing out that you don’t even need to have a character created to see sexualised heavy armour. I was providing examples in response to your comment – ‘Kinda hard to sexualize plate armor’.

locoman.1974:

…That’s the thing, if female characters get a toggle to wear the male version, then male characters should get one as well…

I think that would be great and very progressive. But I’d like to see the female characters getting the option as the priority of the two – making gaming a safe space where female players can engage with more options to not be sexualised seems more urgent to me.

locoman.1974:

The reason asura and charr are equal is that both male and female wear the male version of every armor, and actually it has been a common request to allow female asura and charr to actually wear female armor.

That doesn’t surprise me and I’m sure there are lots of men and women who would really appreciate such a change. I’d be delighted for them to have the option to play in the way that makes them feel happy and welcome.

Lightyears.8624:

Seriously?

There are a lot more armor sets to choose from that provide full coverage than there are “sexy” armor sets.

Examples:

Almost every dungeon set except Light TA and Light CoE.
Almost all human cultural except T3 Medium and Light.
Every crafted medium set.
Every crafted heavy set except Barbaric
Every crafted light set except Feathered, Winged and Masquerade, (Emboridered is debatable)
Every Priory Set
Every Ascended Set
Every Exotic Karma Set
Every Gem Set except Profane, Krytan, Flamekissed and Zodiac (debatable since it’s technically covered by “blue space”).

It’s not just about coverage. But yes, seriously; what can I say I’m greedy.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Go look at the Heavy armor. Kinda hard to sexualize plate armor unless you add detailed nipples. But then you get the question of “why would you need nipples on armor?” And no, glass cutting isnt an acceptable answer.

During character creation on class selection there is like a paragon representation of each class. These descriptions are for those:

Human: the guardian is as you say pretty neutral, the warrior is in fishnets, a mini-skirt and some kind of metal boob-tube.

Norn: the warrior is in the above exact armour, the guardian has half an exposed pair of panties, impressive cleavage, exposed thighs and sides, with metal thigh-high booties.

Sylvari: the warrior is awesome, covered, no boobplate, just perfect (for my tastes). The guardian has cleavage and skin-tight plate-mail leggings, but otherwise is okay.

(edited for spelling of plate-male/mail)

Faowri.4159:

They should really just avoid making armour sets that are so dramatically different based on arbitrary gender expectations. Slight differences to account for anatomy are fine and all, and I can even tolerate a few stereotypical gender signifiers if we absolutely must, but when you’ve got massive thematic/motif/construction differences and the armours don’t look like they belong at all to the same set, there’s a basic design problem. More in my sig link on that, though.

I guess TL;DR is that this shouldn’t be a problem that needs a toggle. When you’ve got dramatically different looks across two genders for the same armour set, make them separate sets instead.

I pretty much agree. The different armour sets thing would also give us a good quantity of sexualised male armour – that would cover another frequently requested thing in the facebook girls group.

There is an appetite for the sexy female armour among female players too – one of them said that being a powerful bad-posterior in a flouncy dress feels to her like an inversion of the passive princess thing – that she can be pretty, flouncy, and still slay dragons.

Lheimroo.2947:

…If you’re looking for sheer silly diversity, though.. Saints Row IV. Nothing stopping you in that game from creating a fat black woman who speaks in the voice of Nolan North on helium while running around in fursuit costumes.

Saints Row 3 is among my favourite games (I enjoyed SR4 but nowhere near to the same level). It blew my mind and made me feel powerful in a way I’ve never felt before with a female protagonist. Although Saints Row 2 has a more flexible character creation system – there’s actually a slider for gender so you can be as butch or as girly as you like. I like playing really muscular female characters and SR2 has been the only game that’s ever indulged me. SR4 made me really miss my Russian voice. The deepened European voice didn’t cut it.

AwkwardStarfish.1827:

If a toggle isn’t possible, perhaps it would be easier for more practical female armor to be made. I been playing since launch but have deleted many heroes simply because I couldn’t stand their armor choices. Now I only play Charr (<3) and I enjoy mixing and matching pieces. The tail clipping on my fuzzy ladies isn’t as much of a problem to me as having my boobs hanging out in a starter area.

I agree I have one humanoid and she’s a sylvari mesmer – I can mentally cope with an illusion class having sexualised armour, and the sylvari homeland is so beautiful (also charr don’t lend themselves to jumping puzzles).

Some more practical female armour would be great. Especially at character creation where I find it the most off-putting (you can play a sexy elementalist, or a sexy mesmer, or a sexy warrior…).

Lheimroo.2947:

HarlequinWild.4359:

No, Asura and Charr already have pretty equal armour. I wasn’t even aware there were differences.

Enormously refreshing to come back to a game with species that actually can wear reasonable clothing and have reasonable body builds. Where there are races in which females aren’t just boobified up as the way to sexy them up for a teenage audience.

.. specially after trying out some of the upcoming MMOs on their beta weekends. Wildstar in particular.. every single female has boobs the size of their head and waists a wasp would be proud of. While the only race that might have been different – the chua, have a single gender option. Arg!

I feel your pain. A part of me dies every time an awesome bestial species has a female design that’s the male’s but smaller and with two hemispheres whapped onto the torso.

I was drawn to play this game purely because of the female charr. I’d gush about them more but https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/How-to-Give-Good-Feedback says I probably shouldn’t (if you love something, you can say so without excessive fanboyism).

Lheimroo.2947:

Not as simple as it sounds.

Those boobs and those biceps are part of the armor, essentially. Put ‘male’ armor on a female character and you get quite a tomboy.. or worse yet, the other way generates D cups filled by nothing but air, behind which is a hairy chest..

I could rock a hairy chest.

locoman.1974:

…asuming asura and charr also get a toggle to use the female version of the armor).

No, Asura and Charr already have pretty equal armour. I wasn’t even aware there were differences.

locoman.1974:

…That said, if they ever do that, I’m making a male fat norn just so he can run around wearing this..

http://argos-soft.net/GW2/ArmorGallery/index.php?color=10&sex=1&race=3&w=1&skinID=mardigrai&lang=en

That would be utterly glorious.

BigfootArisen.6509:

Not to belittle your problem, but that would be far too much work….

I can see that it would be reasonably involved, although some of the sylvari males have fairly light frames so I guess the main problem would be the breasts? Personally I’d be happy to play with slightly distorted armour on the torso. And the legs would be pretty much the same, no?

I’m not suggesting that they change all the armour overnight, merely piece by piece if possible focussing on the pieces with the biggest difference.

If it’s too much effort and they have bigger fish to fry that’s fine. The charr are my favourites anyway. But I think that ArenaNet have worked very hard to create an inclusive space, and I think a change like this would contribute to it.

Off topic but I was deeply amused to see that the word I used to describe male armour (bad posterior) got changed to ‘kitten’.

Just the armour skin.