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I’ve seen this discussion several times before throughout the history of Gw2, from pre-release onward. I’m generally partial to the beast-master archetype, Gw2 being no exception, but I also get why people would be so repelled by it. An overly long analysis of why it is, and how it could be approached.
Hunter/Ranger pets typically represent a secondary yet mandatory feature that’s fairly difficult to see the unique benefit of, with a high failure cost for mismanagement or bad positioning, and at first Gw2 pets weren’t given anything to compensate for their lowered mobility, such as the doubled health, AOE damage reduction, and the extremely recent lunging while auto attacking & cast speed buffs. The former two don’t exist in PVP when that is perhaps where it would be most important to actually have it.
Gw2’s release had a a weak and repelling introduction for the playerbase at large to the pet mechanic, especially as pets were very clearly inheriting the functionality and behavior of trash mobs with standardized attributes and abilities, and desires for tighter control (such as choosing which abilities go on auto or manual cast, rather than the existing “super power” idea of the f2 ability) have been directly rebuffed.
Even giving them a permanent name was called an impossibility until absurdly late in Gw2’s history, and they lost the growth mechanic they had in Gw1 where after achieving level milestones (11 and 15) they would get noticeably larger. Gw2 basically hit on all the usual difficulties of MMORPG hunter/ranger pets, lost some of the thematic nuances & charms of the first game which also tend to be present in other MMOs (full bluntness: WoW), and introduced its own flaws on top of all that.
Not to mention, almost all of these QoL changes came after absolute tidal waves of rage, and quite often in a too little too late manner.
My summary of the petless idea:
Assuming it’s not woefully complex to alter the properties of abilities, I don’t think it’s necessarily that impossible mechanically (but not practical.) The weapon abilities that have some effect for the pet itself to utilize could possibly be restructured so that the ranger takes that effect instead, such as Maul granting the ranger an equivalent of 2 attacks of opportunity instead of 1 (or something else to more closely represent the actual rather than theoretical bonus.)
Beast-mastery trait-line & shouts would require a more significant rework, and a rename & re-description, but even then it doesn’t seem impossible in relation to the other changes that Gw2 has seen over the years. Search and Rescue could be functionally treated as an increased revive speed, Sic Em’ or Protect Me having its effects apply to you, etc.
But depending on how easy or difficult it is to create more or less new abilities (in the case of replaced/restructured & renamed beast mastery traits and abilities) or “reroute” in the case of several weapon abilities, it probably just isn’t really practical to take on for a relatively niche issue (the ranger and the pets themselves do have places in the game & meta after all, despite their shortcomings) unless the ranger’s upcoming elite trait line is meant to be the answer to that in some form.
Ironically, I would see the most practical idea (easiest to implement with the game as we see it on live) for a “petless” ranger actually being based on a pet that’s designed explicitly as a back-line, set and forget ranged (long-bow quality ranged) with several differences from normal “pets” focused on alleviating the high-risk or tedious mico-managing without having to jump through hoops of redesigns & significant rebalances and having 90% or more of the power transferred to the player and having almost no functionality on its own, rather than a 70/30 or so split between ranger/pet.
That said, 100% of the power potential on one entity is inherently better than a split power ceiling unless there are other factors leveraged in as balance points; Gw2 has shades of this in that, two heads are always better than one for getting through breakbars, and rangers can leverage the potential of the pet for CC and survival especially since their HP and crowd control abilities are equal to a player’s, despite the cast times involved.
As a theme/archetype, the ranger is a fairly broad term, and in Guild Wars terms I would describe it as being something of a druid with closer ties to civilization than to the wilderness.
I consider part of the rage about pets (especially from the earlier days of Gw2) is that in Guild Wars 1, pets were wholly optional for a ranger. A valid and unique option in its own right, but optional. Then suddenly Gw2 seems dead-set on condensing and simplifying many aspects of the original game, and bam, ranger is stuck being the beast-master class which also held onto a lot of relic qualities of the first game, never for the better, even if the ranger has their original theme intact.
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If it were to happen, I could see a Gorilla companion as having attributes that are similar to the drakes or smokescales, with an emphasis on power, toughness, and vitality, perhaps with even more power in trade for having absolutely no condition damage in their tool-kit. Ground pound for AoE knockback & blast finisher! Chest-beat that gives might stacks to allies! GORILLA STUFF! GORILLA THINGS!
With our complaints combined we can summon captain balance!
:D
Anyway. Count me part of the crowd that’d like to see the leap removed from sword AA. When using the ranger sword I am working around the auto-attack leaps, not “with” it. In other words, doing things such as using another ability like Sword 2 or 3 to break the auto-attack chain, swapping weapons, and other things like to regain control when it’s clear I gotta bail from melee distance as if I was Saitama suddenly realizing I was gonna miss the supermarket bargain.
I remember well my first experience with sword auto-attack; it was not love at first sight because it felt so crippling against the evasion & mobility entailed by GW2’s combat system. The auto-attack as it stands goes against the grain in a way which takes the game away from you, so to speak. In this case I consider first impressions infinitely more important here than what’s possible with later experience.
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They die too quickly in a teamfight. But they MIGHT be good with taunt (I doubt it since they have such low health).
Tried using an owl in PVP once, a few months ago. Not the best bird choice in hindsight since chill is made redundant by taunt (I chose it based on the CD of the slash coinciding with taunt’s ICD), but coulda, shoulda, woulda. Your suspicion is correct, I found the bird kept folding like paper repeatedly in matches, on top of all the issues you mentioned already. Not worth using that in place of meta PVP pets.
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I think you’re just dumb srs
Aaw, ok. : (
No, but seriously. I could’ve just said “Poe’s law mang” or somethin’ like that and avoid being Captain Obvious & other assorted BS in hindsight, lol.
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I don’t think the motif is inherently bad, but it should’ve been handled differently. There’s too many ideas competing for space on that shoulder piece. There’s 8 different animals that you counted on there! Results in all of them getting badly diminished in presence & detail. The bramble part of the shoulder-piece seem like their own design entirely.
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I think it would be more useful than the pet did not stop the run when cast F2.. What do you think ?
The entire world will agree with you on this one, and as others have said it’s an artifact of how AI operates in GW2 – it must stop moving to use abilities (and hence auto-attack & the F2 ability.) It’s a pretty soul withering thing to deal with. I can deal with it, but that doesn’t take away the artificial difficulty that’s added to micro-managing ranger pets as a result.
Honestly at this point I’m so used to the pet not moving that I’m not sure how much itd change. Usually when I use an f2 on wolf for example I use my positioning to lure the opponent into the range of the ability. Maybe we shouldn’t have to do that but I personally think it adds a bit to the class to control the pet correctly and have it hit it’s abilities.
The ability to have that small amount of micro with pets has always been a part of what draws me to the class. And hitting those f2 abilities consistently is usually a mark of a good ranger (or consistently bad opponents depending).
Something I have never seen discussed (in recent memory) is that when you press F3 to call your pet back to you, it will cancel the spell it is currently casting, and get the normal cancelled cooldown timer of 3 seconds. For pets with long cast times like wolves and especially drakes where the enemy may outright die before they complete their spell cast or it’s obvious they’re about to get plastered by an enemy ability, it’s invaluable.
What’s not to understand? Pets have been useless for over 3 years and there has been no effort to improve them.
I would definitely like to see more done with ranger pets. But the 95% AOE damage reduction in PVE is nothing to sweep aside, and makes the statement about no effort being made to improve pets false at face value. I am not holding my breath for a “real” overhaul that would be so desired however, especially in light of untouched but much discussed mechanics like the ranger sword auto-attack, unless official announcements & updates state & show otherwise.
My sarcasm is apparently too advanced.
By making a statement (in this case, your first post in this thread) without any cues for the reader to pick up that it was, in fact, intended to be sarcasm, it looks more like backtracking to try and make yourself look smarter than the responder by saying “It was sarcasm! It’s just advanced for you peasants!” It wasn’t even a true statement for a reader to work with anyway – the design of a wolf or drake & its abilities, yes, that is thematic, but the AI entity and associated traits & mechanics are not, no questions asked.
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Ya, I shall attest to getting this issue as well.
1) Pet Name Fix!
2) Remove lock-in-place quality of 1h swords.
3) Give pets a “Stay” command!
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