Guild Wars 2

Mod khalija_: official site says we’ll get some new info on June 4th

The 4th has come and gone, is this info out someplace?

Nearly every gaming company who’s products I’ve played in the last few years now has this default “you’re doing it wrong” retort to any potential problems.

I took a month or so hiatus over the new year and came back to find my account terminated for botting, etc. At the very same time that I’m looking at that notification on the launcher, I have friends telling me over other platforms that one of my characters is logged in and active (though set to away/DND or whatever the IG equivalent is). So the idea that MY system is the source of the problem struck me as patently dubious.

The company head putting out some blog about system security is not “benevolence” as some would like to spin it, this is a tried and true tactic of narrative control, distancing ANet from any responsibility while appearing to be helpful (think BP ‘cleaning’ beaches after Deepwater Horizon, yet not allowing any media to film the activity). Same thing happened in SWTOR, people with high-end systems were having major problems getting the highest settings to work (despite owning many very demanding games that ran without a hitch). BioWare staff pump out some nonsense about “a few people with older systems” trying to push them too hard and putting out “helpful” guides on how to tweak your system to perform better (to no avail because that wasn’t the actual problem, but again helped re-frame the debate with the onus on the players rather than the company).

My experience tells me some of these farming/botting groups are running absolute circles around ANet network security, but they can’t come out and say that publicly because heaven forbid they lose face.

Been almost an hour straight of SoR and TC being within 100 points of each other and trading the lead frequently. Loving it!

:9

3am Update

TC squeaks into the lead!

TheDevilWithinU.7092:

Nakoor.1980:

Ardon.4105:

Dominance? You’re in last place. What is this dominance you speak of. I’m always hearing that SoR is the superior server with the superior this and the superior that. But you’ve never actually won a single thing? I’m truly confused by this mentality.

You can’t see anything when you are always running.

I agree. Talk smack once you actually have control of your BL when we are actually online okay? K.

Also consider the fact you haven’t been able to contest us at all in any open fight we’ve had against you tonight. It’s been quite a fun friday night though that is for sure. Hope the holidays doesn’t change the daily fighting too much.

Points matter, field fighting and forum posts don’t.

:9

What I’ve noticed is that since the changes to healing (limited to 5, prioritizes players over NPCs, pets, etc) it is nearly impossible to keep the pact members alive on the march to the temple (from the Rally Point). 3 or 4 times in a row yesterday I attempted this DE with 7-8 other players and the whole group was dead before we got a few hundred yards from the start (the first trigger point where 3 successive waves of risen come at you).

There were a few times I rolled into where the friendlies were, hit my shout heals and saw players getting healed for ~200 and shortly after 1 or 2 Pact NPCs bit the dust.

I have seen maybe 4-6 instances where temples (not including the Narthex, that is) were open in the last week. That does not mean 4-6 times that all temples were open or 4-6 times for each temple, but 4-6 total.

This is what happens when you introduce new content that inherently invalidates previous content.

Katai.6240:

I think some people are doing the math wrong. A 0.5% increase in equipment stats across all equipment is still only a 0.5% increase in stats. Multiplication is distributive…

Even if you had 40 people in Exotics vs 40 people in Ascended, the power difference is still 0.5%.

People using the 0.5% figure are referring to the impact of a single item on your overall stats.

The difference, for example, between an Exotic Berserker ring and the Ascended Red Ring of Death is 13% more power and 9% more precision. That is before adding an infusion.

So once we get to the point of having a full tier for all slots, you’re looking at somewhere in the 6-8% range (again, not counting the infusion, which they have stated will have a continuing progression itself). This is, despite what many claim, not ‘insignificant’. If you don’t think so, just ask yourself if you would look at a 6-8% pay cut as ‘insignificant’ or if that would basically make the difference between you getting all of your bills and basic life necessities paid with a little extra for entertainment vs. starting to get late bill warnings, your bank/landlord starting to talk about foreclosure/eviction, eating ramen noodles every night and having nothing left over for leisure.

Think about every fight you’ve had in WvW where you hung on by your finger-nails to pull out a win. Those would all be losses with a 6-8% change in balance. I quite expect a number of people will parade through claiming they are so boss at PvP that they always stomp their enemies into the dirt and never have a close call like that, but in the real world, this will effect a number of fights on a regular basis.

AW Lore.5682:

my guild group and i had been doing AC for a while, and we had gotten pretty good at it, then during one of the runs we had a missing fifth, so we took a random pug who was an ele and claimed to be a “healer ele”, who focused only on just…using water ele spells.

that run felt like it was just a 4 man run, me and another guildie kept whispering each other, and we both agreed that we did not felt at all that the “healer ele” contributed much to the team, if at all.

its an anectodal experience and thus your mileage can vary, but thats how i felt having a “healer” in our team, and would rather have a random balanced or different

Not much different than most trinity-based MMOs where it is quite common to hear the DPSers maximizing their own importance while diminishing the other roles.

azmodeus.3409:

yes. its not only a great idea, but one desperately needed in any mmo. a mmorpg that doesn’t have something to work towards, gear/items/new content stagnates and dies.

anet made a very smart move adding ascended, and i look forward to more content and gear as time progresses.

They had gear and items to work towards.

They’ve introduced new content each month.

Having that gear involve stat mod increases that are required to proceed in the new content is the problem.

Shootsfoot.9276:

Horrorscope.7632:

Enoch.1058:

Kings X.5082:

ANET needs to make the game solo friendly. Maybe they should look at GW1 for inspiration.

In what ways is GW2 NOT solo-friendly?

Dungeons.

I just don’t understand the mentality of people buying a game marketed as a massively multi-player online game and then complaining you can’t do everything solo.

Because the term multi-player only means that there are multiple players in the same environment.

The term that describes players participating in the same content to achieve the same goal is cooperative play.

The term that describes players cooperating at the same time and in the same virtual representation of space is synchronous play.

critickitten.1498:

Columba.9730:

critickitten.1498:

Tolmos.8395:

Being forced to run dungeons for the best gear so you can remain competitive in WvW is not unique.

I keep seeing this comment everywhere.

Have you possibly considered that maybe you just suck at WvW?

I don’t mean to sound rude, mind, it’s just that I was always plenty “competitive” in WvW at Lvl 80 while wearing just magic or masterwork-level items. I never once felt heavily disadvantaged and would regularly kill other players in head-to-head combat. So, either I’m just that good (which is unlikely), or you’re doing something wrong.

Ergo, I’m inclined to think that if you honestly believe a few extra stat points are going to make you suddenly perform better at WvW, you’re in for a lot of disappointment. Stats help, but are hardly as influential as people seem to think.

this is what all the grinders say. They say so because they know that they will have the gear and others will not. 20%+ better stats aren’t trivial.

You’re either a fool or can’t read.

I very clearly stated that I first started playing in WvW with blue and green gear, having never grinded the game at all, and was doing FINE. I’m fairly certain that the difference between a player in mostly blues and a player in all exotics is a MUCH bigger gap than exotics vs ascended will turn out to be. Yet I was able to get over that hurdle. And if I can do it, anyone can.

Heck, I tried it again just before the patch went in, and I was still doing pretty well. And I still don’t have anywhere close to a full set of exotics. In fact I just earned my first two exotic armor items during the weekend event (one as a drop, and another by trading my finale chest rewards with another player). I’m no “leet” player and I’m not the “grinder” you want to pretend I am. I’m just the opposite, and yet I’m telling you that you’re full of kitten. The gear isn’t the problem, YOU are.

Sorry, but your narrative is entirely false. Gear can certainly help, but it doesn’t make a kitteny player suddenly turn into a powerhouse player. Stop lying to yourself and just admit that maybe you’re just not as good as you think you are.

So basically your only response is a long-winded version of “L2P noob.”

Great, you are a WvW god, congratulations.

The point still stands that two players of otherwise equal skill and aptitude will not be on equal footing based on whether they spent weeks/months grinding out gold and mats in a linear sequence of PvE encounters that have already begun stratifying the player base.

Just painting everyone who has a problem with this at the conceptual level as being unskilled and wanting to blame their performance on gear is the false narrative. The person you responded to only made a comment about remaining competitive, somehow you read into that all of this nonsense about sucking at WvW and other not-so-thinly-veiled personal attacks. It is absolutely possible to be good at WvW AND not like gear disparity.

Vakirauta.6397:

Kerri Knight.3168:

Your reward was being entertained for a few hours.

Stop expecting ego-stroking, self-image-validating “virtual property” and you might actually enjoy a game for what it is.

Here comes the White Knight. Get the hell outta here.

Here comes the ad hominem, must not have an actual argument to refute with.

Sounds like your problem, not mine.

Your reward was being entertained for a few hours.

Stop expecting ego-stroking, self-image-validating “virtual property” and you might actually enjoy a game for what it is.

fellyn.5083:

Einlanzer.1627:

Never-ending vertical progression (especially through gear) as a way to keep players engaged is a spectacularly terrible design paradigm, and it needs to die. Sorry OP, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Having said that, if they can manage to make this a one-time thing and we don’t end up at level 100 doing 600,000 damage per hit with our Exalted Greatswords with +700 Power in the next 1-2 years, it won’t dissuade me from enjoying the game.

They said they would not be adding new tiers of armor after this from what I’ve read. They said they added it to take advantage of new mechanics for dungeons in Lost Shores and future content updates.

Could they have adjusted exotic armors? Maybe? But then ever since release people have been complaining that exotic armors were too easy to get and that they wanted legendary armor. This is going to bridge that gap.

As of right now, there is no stat gap between exotic and legendary.

The appeal for legendary is purely cosmetic and yet people are pursuing it.

Now they are putting a stat gap between exotic and legendary with no gap between the new tier and legendary.

This doesn’t fix a progression leap, it creates one!

Seems like most of the anecdotal stories from those in favor of the OP involve being outnumbered by 2 to 1 or more. Naturally, they conclude it is this unfair mechanic that is the reason for their loss and not that they lacked the skill to overcome a very lopsided battle.

“It’s not fair I couldn’t kill 5 guys solo” isn’t a problem the game design should be corrected to fix.

kitai.7638:

Firstly i have changed to topic title to simply support warrior since the ranged part has proven to be not so viable for someone trying to go the support route so yeah :P

@Argis thanks for the heads up about the water sigil :P as for the other suggestions, maybe i will go with that sigil load out cuz it seems like it makes the most sense so thanks for that too

But now i noticed something after reading more into the skill details, warhorn #4 cures chill/cripple AND immobilized? wtf that is freaking op lol and if you have the wh trait u cure another condition???? the reason i brought this up is cuz with the 2 wh skills + shake it off i see no reason to use soldier runes anymore lol and was looking around for runes to replace em and i saw the heal runes and i think i found just the thing

so now i just wanna ask about the rune of water, with 6 of em it says you get an aoe heal when u use heal? but it writes small amount and dosent say how much so i wanna ask if anyone knows how small is the heal? cuz if its good that makes a 4th aoe heal for us and i’ll totally go for 6 water runes if not i’ll go 2 water, 2 monk and 2….i guess either major monk/water to get 10 % boon duration for a total of 70% increased boon duration with the 30 tactics

According to the wiki discussion page on “of the Water” the heal is 690+(healing power/2)

2 Monk, 2 Water (with 30 in Tactics and Quick Breathing) gives you potentially 100% uptime on Warhorn boons. The last 10% from a pair of majors basically only gives you 3/4 of a second of Fury and 2.5 more seconds of 6-stack Might overlap on FGJ. In real world situations you may or may not get a swing off in time for that last attack to get a 20% increase crit chance (1/2 of those last attacks, accounting for something like 1 of every 10 attacks getting a 20% chance to do 50% more damage is like .5% overall damage increase in ideal circumstances) I might suggest “of the Fire” (20% Might duration) which will extend that 6-stack overlap to 20 seconds out of 25.

Might boosts both regular and condition damage and the weapons you’ve chosen utilize both. Might helps critical, power and condition builds while Fury helps mostly +crit damage% builds, which tend to already have amazingly high crit chance (and again, 3/4 second is as likely to go unused as used).

I’m a Sword/Horn+Rifle (LB for siege if there’s time to swap and set traits) and do the 2 Monk, 2 Water myself. My 3rd pair is Krait, but with condition clearing I don’t think I’m really benefiting from it much so pondering some “of the Fire” for maximizing the group damage side of the support role.

Kuthos.9623

It’s lame and a little disappointing that I can go into the middle of a group of 20 people, down 5 of them (when I should be able to hit anyone who was within range), barely escape with my life only to see them revived in an instant.

You single-handedly went into a group of 20 players, downed 5 of them and escaped intact. I’m not sure what kind of balance you are expecting if this is a disappointment to you.

You achieved several seconds of disruption within the enemy force. If followed up by your teammates this could have resulted in AOEs dropping on the downed players forcing the enemy to either take more damage while reviving (and not returning fire on you) or simply allow them to die. You placed pressure on the enemy, they were forced to make an opportunity cost decision and apparently you didn’t have enough allies (or their response was ineffective) to capitalize on it.

If you’re expecting to be able to routinely zip in solo, kill 5 enemies out of 20 and slip away, I really don’t know what to tell you.

mjharrison.3209

last night, i successfully manage to 1v2 2 guys to downed, but get downed myself seconds later from condition damage, then i proceed to get 2v1ed to defeated due to the 3 of us throwing rocks, which rallies both guys. It was a ridiculous end to an otherwise great fight where the 3 of us should have simply died.

So you were outnumbered 2-to-1, managed to get the upper hand at first but ultimately fell to their combined output and this is…the wrong outcome?

See, the trend I’m seeing here is this belief that “I am super-uber awesome and can totally wipe out whole lines of players by myself, but it’s these dumb mechanics that prevent me from doing so.”

The Monday patch is basically a given at this point, I’d think.

Just be glad they are using a system architecture that can deploy with only a few minutes of down-time on the client end rather than the 2-8 hour “patch day” of many older games use. The latter doesn’t work in today’s increasingly global titles.

The time probably has to do with the patch being expected to be ready to green light around EOB Monday, PST from the looks of it. Then a few hours pushing it live on the back-end, do some testing (this is where all MMOs -and software in general- have issues… :9) and then you “flip the switch” and everyone gets told to bugger off in 3 minutes.

GrinReaper.5082:

Personally I always play as a male because I am one. It’s always preference but in answer to the person who mentioned the men looking like they were on steroids: If you are sposed to ‘save the world’ your character is not going to look like your average male. He is obviously going to be buff/ripped.

Well, there’s buff/ripped and then there’s “freak of nature.” :9

Twinbros

man up and try to overcome it.

This coming from the guy who says

I know I’m not alone in saying some of us will be avoiding WvW until next weeks match up.

There are many events that can be done solo. If there are other players nearby, but not participating (causing the event to scale) then it might not work out so great.

You can level up and get exotics without ever engaging or interacting with other players.

You could probably even beat the Mad King instance solo if you’re careful enough.

You may not be getting the entire online multiplayer experience this way, however.

So I’m sitting in Lion’s Arch on an overflow server waiting for the event to start and witness a RUN player start harassing someone from the guild pink (Pink Animal Clan).

RUN 1: i (kittening) hate PINK!!!!
RUN 1: so glad we (kitten) slapping you guys in W3 atm
RUN 1: pink (kitten)
ME: I don’t think that’s the same pink.
RUN 1: its overflow
RUN 1: everyone is in overflow
RUN 1: SoR 4 LIFE
Me: If you mean the guild from TC, it is PiNK Principality of New Katulus
RUN 1: DEFIANCE 4 LIFE
Confused Player: We are the pink animal clan
Me: Trash talking the wrong people, classic.
RUN 1: PiNK is PINK
Confused Player: Figured it wasn’t us, we don’t traditionally get trashed talked, were lovely people lol
RUN 2: i love seeing pink in w3
Me: Another one who can’t read?
Confused Player: guys
Confused Player: i’m the PINK ANIMAL CLAN
Me: lol
Confused Player: one of the biggest guilds from gw1
Me: This is so awesome, I’m putting this in the W3 thread
RUN 2: so how come you guys own nothing in w3
Me: Learn to trash talk the right people
Confused Player: w3schools?
RUN 2: you guys own nothing wvwvwvw
Confused Player: Because we are a mostly PvE guild haha
RUN 1: carebears
Confused Player: and were on JQ
RUN 2: pve lol
Confused Player: I think im going to change my overflow, to a more mature overflow, what server u all from
Confused Player: so I make sure never to visit it

Made my day, too hilarious.

This trio of images is the best visual reference for understanding what we are missing in widescreen. Also, the vertical element is only part of what we are missing (and the new FoV they are testing still doesn’t address the problem).

http://imgur.com/a/StY5S/#0

There are plenty of roles and niches to fill,

Direct Damage
AOE
Condition Build
Controller
Support
Bunker
Etc.

Xercisis.9768

I am really honored that you all have followed us, the fanboy factor is awesome. It almost hurts to be killing you now.

Yup, definitely the same people.

Nobody has comedy gold like this.

Niko.8901

Oh wow SoR has a guild named Defiance [RUN]. Just like the RUN that is on Darkhaven… No wait,Tarnished Coast.. oh wait on Sea of Sorrows…. Oh wait yeah I guess RUN is on Sactum of Rall…

Where will they run to next?

What? After all that heartfelt outpouring about how they’d really found their long-term home on SoS?

I sometimes wonder if most people even understand the application of the term “sandbox” any more.

-skill points / utilities
- level scaling
-exploation
- multi path dungeons
-WvW

Not one of items strike me as a particularly “sandbox” feature.

Focksbot.6798:

My ultimatum to everyone: if your problem is lack of things to do at level 80, let’s talk about some constructive ideas and alternatives to grinding that might be easily and successfully implemented.

If your problem is that you think any MMO which doesn’t let you continuously grind your way to better stats is hopelessly flawed and a diabolical waste of time, we’ll have to disagree, because I’m probably never going to stop thinking you’re an insecure individual who needs superior gear to compensate for feelings of inadequacy.

That really does seem to be what separates the legitimate concern from those who just want this to turn into an kitten measuring contest.

Deli.4097

@ Kerri Knight, I agree with you it would indeed not be a healthy thing to do.
However, I was not aware that I was doing so. Thank you for taking the time to use your superior mind reading skills and instant personal character evaluation techniques to inform me of whom I am and of what I think and what my personal failings are. All this after reading one forum post and then taking some of the comments made totally out of context, most impressive!
It is interesting to see how defensive you appear to be, do some of the comments you have taken out of context apply to you, or are you just really that idiotic?

You used insulting, pejorative-filled language to disparage others. Your utter disdain for people who prefer not to have endless progression as their form of entertainment couldn’t be more apparent.

If you don’t want to be perceived as insulting, maybe take a moment to consider the language you use.

Deli.4097:

So, at 80 the main focus of the game is to just aquire different ‘looks’ than other people have (PvE focus here obviously)?
The main thing I am picking up from everyone vigorously shouting down the OP is that they do not want anyone to possibly be viewed as ‘better’ than them in any way and are really happy that at present this will not happen as there is no real way to be considered so.
Everyone the same, everyone doing the same, everything the same, but wooo some people look at bit ‘different’.
Great, how exciting!! /sarcasm.

I don’t think people have a problem with achievements and being able to display them (the unique armor skins). Being viewed as better is an entirely different matter than being objectively and quantifiably capable of greater performance due to stat disparity.

constantly cry
dumbed down
cannot achieve the same as everyone else
do not want to put in the time or effort
cry on the forums

Maybe you should find something besides video games to base your sense of self worth and superiority over others, it’s really not a healthy thing to base your self-image on.

Naoko.7096

However, North believes everyone should be equal no matter what. They do not want to make, “The richer become richer, the poorer become poorer”. Everyone lead the same life. They diminish all the “classes” so that there’re no one who can be higher than another. That’s where the equal wealth distribution comes in. The people who are suppose to earn more, have to distribute their wealth to the poor. There’re no “rewards” if people make extra efforts in life because they still end up the same as those who doesn’t make effort to feed themselves. This punishes the dedicated and hardworking ones while benefits the people who doesn’t want to make effort for themselves.

You apparently have no clue how North Korea actually works.

What happens is they pump out a bunch of populist rhetoric about equality, but really the majority of people are starving and living in squalor while the vast bulk of what little wealth the nation has goes to a select few among the inner circle of power.

Kinda like all of those games that talk a big game about providing an entertaining experience for all players, but then funnel the majority of the revenues into producing content and rewards for a minority of people who conform to a specific behavior (mindlessly hammering away at a few instances under the “enlightened rule” of a self-declared leader).

If this game were Communism as it exists on paper, then as I stated earlier all of the karma and currency you produce would go into a central holding and then get distributed equally to all players.

If this game were Communism as it typically results in practice, it would look like most other AAA, progression-oriented, tier-based raid-centric grinders.

Same thing with Capitalism/Democracy, looks fantastic on paper where “hard work, ingenuity, innovation and skill will be rewarded” but in practice a select few who game the system to their own benefit at the expense of society as a whole tend to reap the greatest rewards.

All that said, these endless comparisons of a game intended for leisure entertainment to work/employment and governmental/economic models is disturbing for obvious reasons.

The game need things to grind for a few weeks at a time .

Why does it “need” that?

There’s no sub fee, so they don’t need you endlessly spinning your wheels for months on end so you’ll impulsively re-up in hopes of catching the elusive carrot.

New content will be added as time goes on. If you see something in that content that interests you, you’ll pay for it, if not, you don’t have to and won’t be restricted from performing alongside others because some stratifying force puts you on unequal terms.

Arcadio.6875

As for the hacker, you’ll notice his guild is Rise Of The Omniscient which is the second chapter of GODS which just started. GODS does not condone hackers and our members will even report them regardless of what server they are on.

Okay, but are steps being taken to remove him or is this some kind of hand-washing “disclaimer” where you publicly state your opposition to it, mention some mechanical but ultimately arbitrary method of differentiating yourself from him but really not taking any steps to separate yourselves, thus condoning and supporting the behavior?

Sleaze.3748:

Focksbot.6798:

Similarly, keep working hard at GW2 and you’ll become a GOOD player. Then you’ll get your reward.

Except there is currently no reward developed in the game at the moment for this. Also if you are speaking of legendary weapons… those are the epitome of grind with a road block of RNG to make things “fun” according to the devs.

PS Your analogy is also way off wack, I could name a million situations were people get rewarded for not working hard or doing something well. Try again.

That’s Naoko’s example, actually.

Show up, breathe at a decent pace and maintain a body temperature somewhere around 98 and you can get a diploma.

Schmooze the bosses you can get a raise.

Have the luck of being born into the right family, you can be rich.

etc, etc, etc.

Naoko.7096:

In my eyes, that’s what you’re doing. You believe you’re right and pushes your “ideals” to another who don’t feel the same. I never did so.

Actually, that is entirely what you are doing.

You see, I will acknowledge that your playstyle is valid and works for you. There are a plethora of games out there which provide the style you prefer. I don’t go around on their message boards saying they don’t count as MMOs because they don’t do it the way I like.

Meanwhile, you sit here heaping ridicule and labels on those who play the style this game caters to and insist it has to conform to your expectations.

I only share the elements of “rpg” which many people feel that are lacking in gw2. It’s a fact since many players had felt this way. Look around this forum, ign webby and many other places, so much evidences of many players who feel the same way about gw2. You can’t deny that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

“A bunch of people say it, so it is a fact and you can’t deny it”

No, it is not a fact that GW2 lacks RPG elements.

It lacks an endless progression model, that is not a prerequisite for being an RPG just because “a bunch of people say so.”

Yes, your argumental points are valid, but they’re only valid if I talked about those single-player rpg, multi-player pvp or mmopvp/fps. That’s why I said your arguments and refutes are weak if you used it towards mmorpg.

You are using your own cherry-picked version and definition of MMORPG in order to maintain a circular, self-referencing argument.

I understand that gw2 tries hard to make it so different than mmorpgs of the past, I appreciate the differences. But I feel it didn’t work out so well. It doesn’t feel like a mmorpg or what they claimed to be “revolutionised mmorpg”. It takes away some vital points of what makes a mmorpg. If they want to take away those points (gear progression/individual growth) from mmorpg, they should replaced it with something of equavalent or more value. They think only “grind for cosmetics gears” makes a good end-game, but every other mmos already have that. Where’s the other half in gw2? Yes, you can take it away but replace it with something else to fill that hole. Something that makes players feel progressed from extra efforts. Then, I can agree that it’s a revolutionised mmorpg.

Again, you keep insisting that gear progression is “a vital point” of what “makes a[n] MMORPG.”

That’s your opinion.

It is a vital requirement for you to enjoy it, not everyone. So again, there’s dozens upon dozens of options that follow that model, yet here you are in one of the few that serve a different market segment insisting it has to do so as well.

That is why you’re the one pushing your definition on others, not me.

Battousai.7586:

Curlybaby.6258:

I think your answer is in your thread title.

There is a grind but it IS for fluff.

… and the edge in PvP are your superior skills.

I enjoyed 1 shotting with Ambush, or immortal tanking on a disc priest. fluff is cute and all but it will hardly keep any “hardcore” players. You dont feel more superior with a fluffier weapon.

Maybe a video game isn’t a healthy place from which to derive a sense of superiority over others to begin with.

Battousai.7586:

Mattress.3629:

kiranslee.4829:

Well actually u do. And not all of us see having skins is only for B2P or 24/7 farmers.

Well actually no you don’t, as I said in my post above, you do not need to purchase or use any gems whatsoever to partake in all the activitys, I was able to afford the witch’s costume and the Mad King costume and some keys because I bought my gems 2 weeks ago when the event was said to involve gems, knowing that they would spike I bought them then, you don’t need to B2P or farm 24/7, don’t be mad cause you can’t make gold.

By that logic you dont “Need” to do anything in this game, but considering that all the nice stuff is hang infront of you with sparkly dollar signs says otherwise. This is a money grab holiday, there is no denying that.

What are you being prevented from doing by not spending money/gems?

lacrimstein.5603:

Kerri Knight.3168:

“Massively and multiplayer: I thought was about sharing user experiences and adventures. That somehow became carved into let’s kill dragons together and get cool stuff. The social aspect and the option to choose the way you play diminished.” -Calvin Crowner, Ultima Online Producer, Electronic Arts

Except UO was a sandbox game, complete with persistent player and guild housing, PKs and looting, and gear(!). SWG, on top of that, had vehicles, both for one and several players. That indeed is choose-the-way-you-play. GW2 doesn’t have any interesting game mechanics like that. Its all about combat & some crafting. It’s basically open-world Diablo, without the gear treadmill.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a major sandbox fan.

I’m just pointing out that not having an endless progression of the kill→loot→repeat variety doesn’t mean it isn’t an MMO.

“Massively and multiplayer: I thought was about sharing user experiences and adventures. That somehow became carved into let’s kill dragons together and get cool stuff. The social aspect and the option to choose the way you play diminished.” -Calvin Crowner, Ultima Online Producer, Electronic Arts

See, we may have the advantage in overall numerical superiority, but with so many RPers all it takes is some fluff content or a big scheduled RP event and suddenly we vanish, leaving the opportunity to strike! :9

lacrimstein.5603:

Precisely. They can see that this game has no longevity, so they fallback to the single-player mindset to hide that flaw from themselves. Then you get all the playthrough time comparisons to Skyrim and other open-world single-player RPGs. The thing is, if GW2 was a single-player game, it wouldn’t be able to hold a candle to a good single-player RPG in terms of story, world complexity, player impact, and character development. A persistent, massively-multiplayer world is the MMORPG genre’s trump card, what drives people to play it. No longevity —> Players leave --> Game dies. Period. Doesn’t matter if its subscription-less or not. Sure, you can come back in several months, but to a mostly empty world, so you’ll be playing the game in basically single-player mode. And then, gasp you’ll turn off the game in a couple of hours because, again, MMOs do not work as single-player games.

“I’m actually right and everyone who is refuting me with valid points are just in denial.”

Quite ironic when you think about it :9.

If this game doesn’t suit you, that’s fine. Not everyone has to agree with you for you to be correct that your interests and desires are not met by this particular offering. However, that doesn’t mean that this game is not an MMO or that all MMOs by necessity must include a model of endless stat mod progression or power creep to qualify.

Naoko.7096:

Jestunhi.7429:

Naoko.7096:

Kerri Knight.3168:

Funny how your analogy revolves around getting a job, a promotion and increasing your personal income and wealth.

This is a video game designed for leisure entertainment, not measuring your productive capacity in society.

Did you read the posts or even make an effort to read the lines?
What I spoke of about “getting a job/promotion/increasing wealth income” are just EXAMPLES to relate how progression actually is fun and vital in a constant virtual world with massive people like in mmorpgs.

It’s fun to you.

It may even be vital to you.

But please don’t think that you speak for everyone, a quick glance at this thread shows that you do not.

That is because they’re playing the game with the mentality of a single-player rpg.
That’s why they kept missing the points and brought in arguments that’re really unrelated.

And I never said I spoke for everyone.
We can see there’re two types of people here. A group who knows the true essense of mmorpg. Another group who try to make mmorpg look like a single-player rpg or multi-player fps/pvp/player game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherry_picking_%28fallacy%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Endless treadmills of progression are not a requirement of the MMORPG genre, discounting the examples which did not feature such a model (including many of the original offerings and the MUDs/MUSHes/MOOs they evolved from) or saying that those who advocate otherwise don’t understand the “true essence” of them is just asserting your subjective preference as objectively superior.

Naoko.7096:

Kerri Knight.3168:

Funny how your analogy revolves around getting a job, a promotion and increasing your personal income and wealth.

This is a video game designed for leisure entertainment, not measuring your productive capacity in society.

Did you read the posts or even make an effort to read the lines?
What I spoke of about “getting a job/promotion/increasing wealth income” are just EXAMPLES to relate how progression actually is fun and vital in a constant virtual world with massive people like in mmorpgs.

“Examples to relate” Yes, that would basically be an…analogy. That’s exactly what I said.

My point was that your go-to examples all compare to a system of labor for income needed to cover our costs of living.

Not exactly a paradigm most people are looking for in their leisure entertainment.

One of the biggest uses of these games is escapism. It would quite defeat the entire purpose of escaping the wage-slave model of the world we live in to recreate the exact same system in your relaxing hobby.

Does GW2 take the currency and karma you earn, place it into a collective pool and distribute it equally to all players?

No? Then it isn’t communist.

Does GW2 allow you to distinguish yourself through superior performance?

Yes? Then it isn’t communist.

Does GW2 allow you to display your achievements through visual identifiers of success that communicate you have performed tasks requiring dedicated, long-term effort?

Yes? Then it isn’t communist.

Enough with the hyperbole, already. The only effective difference I see being decried is that you can’t wade through scores of enemies with ease a-la Sauron in the opening scenes of LoTR. Trivializing older content strikes me as more of a punishment than a reward. Stratifying the playerbase so they cannot meaningfully participate in content together because of stat disparities is not helpful for building a larger community. Ingratiating the egos of a small percentage of players doesn’t server any higher purpose, quite frankly.

In this game you are playing the role of an adventurer in a fantasy world, that your personal skill and aptitude at the controls are a factor in the performance of your character does not invalidate that it is still an RPG.

That’s without even going into the issue of taking an excessively literal reading of what is basically a very loose genre descriptor.

Naoko.7096:

Towards your other quote, you’re mixing “communism” and “democracy” together.
You missed the entire point.

In democratic society, at least people are rewarded with efforts.
Making effort for graduation certificate can give you a job. It’s not just cosmetic.
Making effort for promotion can give better pay and rewards. It’s not just cosmetic.
Making effort to get richer, you get richer. It’s not just cosmetic.

There’s progression and rewards for every effort you did.
The -efforts for reward- to get a job, promotions, get richer are what made it fun.
If everything is spoonfed, we can see examples from silver-spoon children who can’t satisfy themselves with anything when they have everything without efforts. That’s why in reality, silver-spoon children can never have fun in life because they have no solid goals.

Funny how your analogy revolves around getting a job, a promotion and increasing your personal income and wealth.

This is a video game designed for leisure entertainment, not measuring your productive capacity in society.

Besides, you describe the idealized version of “democracy” (actually it is capitalism you are referring to, you’re conflating economic models with governmental models). In the real world, you can bust your butt to get the promotion but it ends up going to the guy that was in a fraternity with the boss in college or was part of his high-school clique, etc.

Every game that doesn’t allow me to use an ArcHUD type add-on makes me cry :9.

It is so nice having health, energy, adrenaline, etc. info graphically presented in the center of the screen rather than in the peripheral field. It allows you to actually enjoy the visual activity on the screen instead of looking all over the edges away from the action.

Stynard.8914:

Yojack, thank you again for posting this build. Though others may not ‘agree’ with you, you have provided a well thought out build option, while others have not, but seem to claim yours is not good.
It is easy to be critical but to put yourself out there with information coupled with experience often tends to attract negative responses from those that can’t.
Thank you.
Still would like to know which crafting type can craft superior sigil of blood. i.e, amorsmithing?

From what discussions I have seen, they are random drop only, not craftable.

Obsidian.1328:

I may be a hillbilly from Missourah…

…but would someone explain to me why some players feel like they need to work hard in a game to feel satisfied??

I thought these games were supposed to be “play” and not “work.” Am I wrong?

You’re not alone (either as a Show Me resident or being confused at why people act this way).

This topic is seen in nearly every MMO. I get the feeling our profit-driven society has gotten to the point that we can’t even see a leisure activity for the entertainment value and instead see it as an “investment” from which we expect a “return.”

There’s something sickening about the fact that discussions about games have so much in common with hyperbolic political rhetoric such as “OMG COMMUNISTS!” and “those lazy people who want hand-outs and welfare (epics).”

I just don’t understand people who impart onto or derive from a game some basis for personal self-worth. There’s a lot of people who seem to suffer from a “pecking order” mentality in every aspect of life. Even worse when they need some outside arbitrary authority (like a game’s structure or the designers intentions) to declare them the quantifiably “superior” person.

My point was refuting the boo-hooing about never being mentioned in patch notes at all.

Thank you for the communication with us!

It is good to see you acknowledge some of the issues we are having (build diversity and especially spirits!). A little affirmation goes a long way :9.