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So I made a post that mentioned this idea off hand, and I hadn’t seen the idea brought up before, so have we thought about/discussed how due to the way the stealth gyro applies stealth and how reveal works, doesn’t the engineer become a ready made version of the Nika champion from stronghold? Accounting for revealed and how long you choose to stay in stealth in a 1v1 its possible that the gyros becoming crazy survivable due to being perma stealth, the scrapper in turn benefits from their full use as well as dropping into stealth about every 6 secs. Admittedly this could’ve been super obvious and what was intended for us (me) to think upon seeing the gyro, and would’ve gone a long way towards changing my opinion on it (I only considered it as a worse version of the Mesmer elite). Scrapper best skirmish teef/mesmer?
sorry about the absolute wall of text, but that was the short version
Hey, I’m so glad to see the increase in communication, having solid information goes a long long way to help resolve fears for the class, as it helps rest the worst case scenarios that the mind dreams up. While I am an avid fan of the game and our wonderful devs, a lot of personal anxiety has stopped me in the past from joining the discussion. Fears of putting my passion and opinion out for all to judge paralyze me, and leave me hoping that others will manage to express my concerns. With that said, I can barely even imagine what it would be like to expose your work as a designer to the vitriol that comes out of forums. I work to keep that in mind, because I admit I had to rewrite this post a couple times to ensure I wasn’t adding lethal doses of salt. I care about the game enough that it’s got the potential to work me up, and I know the devs must care even more so. I really hope both that my voice is heard, but more than that, I hope that it’s helpful, and truly constructive feedback, because we all want the same thing, to continue the guildwars way of being one of if not the most innovative game of its kind.
+many hooray for hammer changes
+1 for Impact Savant change
- Gyro changes sound good and in the right direction. Would still prefer not ai, but if that’s what we got. They’re moving towards what they need to be. I can actually see a full gyro build being a real thing.
- the trait Final Salvo needs a re-examination. This is not strictly because there is anything wrong with it, but rather because the dynamic of the gyros no longer fits with it as the gyro interaction/support trait. Gyros now seem to be developing a much more solid identity as a passive bonus that is activated for a short time, and is POWERFUL at the cost of duration limit and the ability to kill the source. As ever, tuning may be required.
- still no stun breaker?
- gyro destruct effects are still in a weird place. They are highly fit for the blast and shredder, and decent for the bulwark. For the others, they feel odd, as while you receive nice things on death, they aren’t the nice things you need, and don’t really apply. Akin to being given salty food while stranded without water at sea. The thought is appreciated, but isn’t what was really needed at the moment
-super speed is fun, and while I was skeptical about how useful it would be, the vale guardian is all ready proving its worth. Issues included wasted interactions due to it not stacking, and being overshadowed/overwritten by application from other sources ie; the revenant/herald. Also would seem to limit the number of scrapers to a max of 1 in 5 for any given content, as they would step on each other’s toes per say.
+1 Medic Gyro sounds great, and atm, has a bright future as a real alternative to the Omni present healing turret, hinged upon good play.
- Purge Gyro is TBD, hinged on improved functionality. Tool belt is very “eh” and unfit mechanically. A light field would be fitting, as it could combo with the shredder for more condi cleanse.
- Shredder Gyro is interesting, possibly under tuned, possibly misunderstood, somewhat underwhelming at the moment. Double whirl finisher a la the warrior double leap finisher as an interesting experiment? I feel that it has incredible potential (the gyro, not my kitten suggestion). So far in discussions I’ve only seen this theorized to be light space control and/or burst condition application. I could see with higher tuning it providing incredible condition cleanse, aoe blind lockdown, and potentially synergy with medic gyro to increase the healing potential to the hands down best healing skill combo.
-Blast Gyro is fun, but potentially just unusable. The counter play/potential points of failure are just too numerous, the reward too low for it, and it is mechanically disjoint, as it lacks the dynamic of reward for keeping it alive.
Possible change -Something akin to a gyro rocket/thumper turret, a floating shooting deal that tracks/follows/shoots the target tagged for its duration would be more appropriate as it retains all of the current counter play options but increases reliability and deals with a number of unintended points of failure (for example; the gyro doesn’t always spawn near enough to you to provide support for it, and the path it travels based on spawn makes thoughtful combos impossible to set up). also cool I don’t care how salty anyone is over gyros, a gyro that releases smaller explosive gyros is the most amazing thing, like a gun that shoots smaller guns.
+1 Bulwark Gyro was already quite good and enjoyable. Increased QoL is always welcome
- SNEAK GYRO -
Tool belt is cray cray powerful. Like purge, this will live or die by the improved functionality. My new understanding of the skill and the stealth application interval is that your supposed to be a Nika backup/equivalent, flashing in and out of stealth while in a combat scenario. Not a huge fan, but significantly cooler than being an elite skill that makes you a bad Mesmer.
MAJOR CONCERN: both skills feel less like general complements to the spec, and more like specific answers to individual scenarios. Good cause reason to take scrapper. Bad cause it feels bad if you aren’t needed because your good, but because your the only person with the win button required for a couple specific encounters.
- FUNCTION GYRO -
Should honestly have its own thread. I could write a small thesis of my thoughts on it. It is strictly an improvement. It feels deeply underwhelming when held up to other classes. It sits in a bizarre gap of perspective, as it is something that can literally only be understood as a flat out and powerful new tool/buff for the class, but inspires only feelings of jealousy, anger, resentment and betrayal (for me at least, and I suspect a fair number of others) when compared to the breathtaking changes available to other classes. It makes sense thematically and mechanically, and yet could be honestly construed to not change the class in any meaningful sense.
My end take on it, I turn to the dark side, I trust my feelings, I know them to be true. I think that the function gyro is insufficient as a mechanic, and under the current paradigm of use, with one at a time, targetable, and literally only two applications that may not even see real use in PVE content (this is a weird thing, as it acts as a safety net, rendered useless if your group plays well, as you shouldn’t need to res anyone, in person or by bot). Under those restrictions, there is no amount of tuning that will fix this, a mechanic that is barely more than a ranger utility skill. Additionally, it renders the master minor (Decisive Renown) hilariously irrelevant for PVE, 1v1 scenarios and the like.
This is also especially irksome, as it was announced that the Druid class mechanic, would receive an overhual despite its largely warm reception, but that there isn’t time for a engineer re-examination. The criticism of the sneak gyro I made I feel applies to the function gyro as well, the option is nice, the concept is limited and it just feels awful because the it is a set use tool, without the ability to improve upon or exploit the performance by way of gameplay, and indeed creates a tension where scrapers are valued not for their skill but a specific and limiting set of options, that as far as we know, aren’t even useful enough in a PVE setting to justify running! The vale guardian kill engineers were more often then not, not even bothering to run scrapper!
I cannot stress enough how much the flair aspect of the mechanic is integral to the visceral dissatisfaction I feel. A lot of work and love went into the reaper shroud and the Druid cele form. The guardian virtues all make use of more active mechanics and new technology. The berserker and daredevil mechanics are interwoven on an almost second to second level with their gameplay to creat a uniquely different play style. The herald and the chronomancer mechanics are awe inspiring in their game wide potential to shift combat and maximize the class. And while I do not doubt that great effort was put into the engineer and the scrapper, and absolutely recognize that the versatility of the tool belt limited the possibilities for the new mechanic, the function gyro just does not hold up in comparison. Not in terms of interaction with self and other class mechanics, not in terms use from moment to moment, not in terms of unique function and not in terms pure shiny wow factor. I don’t care if the game ships in the scrappers current state, all I need to hear is that the scrapper development cycle will continue full steam after release, not just in monitoring for balance like you would for any new class, but actively working as if we were still in beta.
Hi forum, first post here, had a quick question for yall. Was experimenting with thief builds when I noticed that the precision bonus from the signet of agility does not gain any extra vitality from the Practiced Tolerance trait. Is this on purpose or just a small bug?