Guild Wars 2

Balance is not the culprit here – it’s lack of balance.

We were basically lied to when they made this game. There’s no thought going into the balance – specifically in pvp modes at all, it’s garbage compared to GW1 and now it’s worse because their buffs show they have no idea what they’re doing.

Why did I get 5 BL Claim Tickets?

Stealth is still the dumbest thing in a 1v1. You win, they stealth and blink away, heal up. You lose? They kill you because of all their blinks and stealth.

It’s a lose-lose for every other class that doesn’t go full tank and the way thief is designed is 1 in 100 reasons the pvp in this game will never be taken very seriously. What a downgrade from gw1.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Yes, well the game is being maintained by a bunch of kids that don’t know what they are doing. You get what you pay for, I guess.

This is semi offtopic but seriously – what happened to the people at ANet who invented Guild vs Guild, the guild wars 1 combat system.

I get the PvE had to be changed to go from GW1 to a true MMO in GW2 but why couldn’t the pvp be maintained similar to what it was in GW1?

The action based combat where everyone has well over 9 (it’s more like everyone has at least 15 depending on how you count what constitutes a skill) skills just isn’t conducive to much of anything.

I get it, soccer is a visual sport, you want Guild Wars 2 to be visual but there are too many skills to keep track of and too many of them are AOE so it’s just a big mess. The number of skilled plays being made consciously is small – even among the higher skilled due to this. Don’t get me wrong, they try to make the smart play but it’s freaking hard to constantly make split-second decisions.

At this point I’m honestly just praying ANet and NCSoft see the value in releasing GW1 PvP like a League of Legends/DOTA 2 type game. 3rd person non-action allows for much more skill in my opinion. Until that headset from Caprica comes out where you essentially live the game, action based combat games just aren’t going to succeed in the pvp realm of games.

The only thing stopping thieves and mesmers from being absolute terror is the capture point system. Stealth is just an insane mechanic that has no counter to it.

Even in a capture point system – it’s just not fun to fight a thief or a mesmer but their impact on the game is of course much less because of that system.

I’m not sure how to make an equivalent… I guess Mesmers and Thieves are the equivalent of someone going with a ranged top laner in blind pick League of Legends. You just have the most frustrating, often boring time imaginable but you win the game because you build tank and the enemy team is paper thin due to a ranged top laner.

I have had one ascended box from a rank-up chest. Thankfully it was a Chorben’s which is OK and good for my guardian.

Viking Jorun.5413:

eSports, everybody.

They should just release gw1 prophecies (with some of the early balancing of course) as a standalone GvG/HA/RA/TA format or even just GvG.

This game just isn’t built for being an esport. There’s a reason no one has invented Soccer, MMA Style! At a certain point complexity is a huge deterrent.

League of Legends → less skills, no action combat, defined roles. It doesn’t matter if you like or dislike it. There are many reasons why it’s popular and the game being the simplest DOTA style game out there is one of those reasons.

Zacchary.6183:

There actually is counter to stealth, its is called knowledge.

Another weak argument.

Essentially you’re throwing out platitudes and hoping everyone buys it. I don’t.

There is no counter to stealth, it’s the best damage mitigator in the game and only two classes have access to it (with one having crazy amounts of access to it). Ridiculous.

How about this? Give Rangers who trait hard the ability to one shot thieves. If they don’t dodge it – too bad, so sad. Knowledge.

The problem here is the ANet team doesn’t know how to calculate just how much mitigation stealth provides – it’s clear that the amount is large though.

Zacchary.6183:

Burnfall.9573:

Sanduskel is not new, he speaks the truth and shares his knowledge, ideals and the truth of his class: thief to the masses. He refuses the abuse of wrongdoings and exposes them, in return, he is ridiculed and insulted for it.

" Knowledge is Power but when it is abused, it is no longer Power, it is Ego "

" The Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, Ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is "

The Truth

Of course he is not new. He has been derailing threads in the thief forum since he started posting about half a year ago. But ego or not, knowledge > hearsay. And hearsay is all anyone who has ever complained about thieves ever had.

They are just a bunch of screaming kids throwing a tantrum because they got killed “unfairly”.

So much skill involved in pressing a button, going invisible and taking advantage of that fact. So much skill. Button pressed. Skill.

Stealth is the only mechanic in this game without a legitimate counter. You can work around stealth but there is no way to counter it.

Keitaro Dragonheart.9047:

Stealth isn’t the problem. Stealth is perfectly balanced. I’ll tell you what the real problem is:

Stealth is very much the real problem. It’s completely unfun to play against and it’s not balanced.

The game is action based combat.

Stealth is huge. It’s the ultimate damage mitigator in this game right now. Thieves without stealth would probably be weak but simply due to stealth they are incredibly powerful.

Almost every class faces a tradeoff between damage and survivability. Thieves and Mesmers can trait mostly damage and with their stealth they survive better than classes in this game.

When you add in that not only are Thieves/Mesmers the owners of stealth – they’re also the classes with the most blinks.

When you design the game around short fights and no dedicated healers – the game is mostly about damage and how much damage you can deal before dying. Mesmers and thieves due to stealth and blinks are by far the two hardest classes to kill. Being hard to kill means you stay alive longer to do damage.

The most absurd part of all is they can stealth and finish them to downed characters. Stealth is an insult to balance in this game without a doubt. No counterplay, the ultimate damage mitigator, the ultimate action-based combat mechanic.

There’s no downside. You’re losing? Stealth away. You’re winning and downed your target? Stealth so they have to guess when you will be trying to finish them. Add that in with absurd amounts of burst damage (with no dedicated healers, burst is the only type that matters 90% of the time) and they’re by far the best characters in the game.

In a game of capture points they might not be game breakers but in any small skirmish, thieves and mesmers have the most to offer.

We wiped once at the golems because we had a disconnect and we weren’t really sure how it worked.

After that we figured it out, our guy reconnected and we completed rather easily – it was a PUG group too.

The final fight did seem like work, we also wiped once there. That cannon fire at the 25% interval seems to go on forever. IT also didn’t help that I was lagging like crazy on that last fight but still… it felt like it went on a surprisingly long amount of time. The DPSing went quickly – the cannon fire probably lasted just as long.

Jamais vu.5284:

Here’s something to chew on for those crying for a stealth nerf: It makes the thief momentarily much more survivable, but in those seconds you’re also completely safe from them. So use the time, lay an effect field or two, buff yourself, switch weapons, use the terrain, escape into the water. If the thief was at high health count the seconds down and after 3-4 dodge.
If the thief was low and stealths in 9 cases out of 10 he’s fleeing. Yes sadly you probably wont get your loot bag, but if he was most other classes you wouldn’t have gotten that bag just as easily as with that thief if he hadn’t stealthed to begin with, don’t forget that.

… sadly you won’t get the loot bag? In other words you can’t win vs a thief. In small groups or 1v1s that aren’t staged.

You can ‘draw’ or lose… oh and maybe 1 time in 50 the thief overcommits and you get a lootbag of junk. If the thief was most other classes, I’d win.

You can really t ell nobody gives a kitten about PvP or WvW.

They change it (EB jumping puzzle in this case) to make it more PvE friendly, more accessible to others from other servers by disallowing siege completely. They then take traps that you can plant in the middle of the air that unstealth, cripple and cause death to anyone attempting a jump. You can’t detect the traps, they’re not very useful in actual wvw against permastealth thiefs. But by golly, you can grief people in the EB JP with them! Success!

So they introduce something to fix something – it doesn’t work and now the fix is just a grief mechanic for a tiny portion of WvW that’s not even really part of WvW anymore.

Role a thief or a guardian.

oZii.2864:

Aaruhn.7049:

fix it. No reason that a class should have so much mitigation (i.e. stealth) in it and damage burst. No way a class should be able to go into a 20 man zerg without fear of dying. Get in trouble? Go into stealth and run.

Mitigation =! Stealth

OP doesn’t know what mitigation is therefore I can’t take his thread seriously.

That’s exactly what stealth is. You no longer have targeted attacks or skills available. For some that could be the vast majority of their damage gone.
If anyone doesn’t understand mitigation, it’s you.

SoR has the numbers at all times of day. It’s frustrating. They can put up a zerg in the BLs the middle of a weekday and TC (we) simply can’t.

Rawr’s numbers are wrong or for one map. Which is irrelevant because at times TC does control their entire BL, there are times where we can go into other BLs and EB and grab towers, keeps. To put it another way – when we get numbers on a map, we succeed – it’s rare that we have the numbers SoR does though.

Tulisin.6945:

mzt.3270:

thiagoperne.7340:

Permastealth is the stupiest excuse someone can say about thiefs. If he’s permastealth what harm can he do? Only if he attacks you, if so he’s not permastealth anymore. Even if he CD over and over you stil can see him and counter that, if you can’t you just need more practice, cuz its easy. Whiners don’t win, they whine.

It is not the harm it does, it is the unfairness of it all that is the issue. You cannot target what you cannot see, it’s the laws of nature.

You don’t need a target to kill thieves, it is “the laws of nature”. Failure to understand GW2’s combat mechanics does not an overpowered stealth make.

Take personal responsibility for your unwillingness to learn how to fight in GW2 and make the argument that “thieves require us to use a broader skill set than we’re used to” and you’ve at least got a valid point. If you want thieves nerfed on the basis of them making the game too complicated for casual players you might get more support.

I will, however, point out that complaining that thieves broke your tab-target is like coming from an MMO without dodge, refusing to learn how to dodge, and then complaining that you’re getting destroyed by everything. Ignore mechanics (like learning how to aim) at your own risk, but it isn’t the fault of the profession in question.

Uh yes… no counter with a reasonable distance/cooldown is exactly what makes stealth OP.

I bet you if we gave Engineers skills to make them invulnerable 90% of the time you and the rest of the thieves in this game would be crying like babies. And that’s not even as useful because at least you can still see and crowd control the Engineer.

Every single thing in this game has multiple counters – except stealth. And for a long while there literally was no counter. Not a single one.

In a similar vein – we need a ‘costume’ tab for the bank or an NPC in LA that will hold on to costumes.

For instance glasses, hoodies, hats, etc…

I have a few costumes and hats and it clutters my bank

The perma stealth isn’t the problem. The problem is there’s one counter and it sucks.

AOE doesn’t reveal them, damage doesn’t reveal them. A 10 honor badge joke of an item does – and it barely works.

Give some options outside of permastealth that output high damage – perhaps lots of blinks/teleports. Don’t allow them to finish off downed state players in stealth.

I’m tired of having the Mossman going into his stealth, 1 hitting a player as soon as he is out of stealth with no reliable way to know who he’s going to target, no reliable way to dodge.

Haven’t tried regular dungeons, just fractals.

Wizardauz.3761:

Anet isnt responsible for your not telling you in unique when its stated clearly on the item.

If it says something like “unique” something that cant be found on any other item… Evar. I wonder what it could possible mean…

It was noticeable if you bothered to stop and look. They cant be held responsible for your mistake made in haste.

You could say “Anet isn’t responsible for….” for just about anything.

The accessories/rings set up in general is pretty poor. Unique makes it worse. I’m glad I came across this thread so I know this now. I would have been like the OP, grabbing 2 of the same if I did not see this thread.

Dredrum.2563:

Yes we can, we outnumber at night we still are challenged. What you are trying to do is make your server seem greater by trying to knock us down in forums. Face up to the facts us moving up and sbi moving down will probably make this game much more enjoyable for all. Closer more competitive scoring, because the match up atm is very imbalanced and needs to be changed.

You outnumber TC at least 3-6 to 1 every day of the week during the 3am – 10am EST timeslot on our own borderland (I have no idea if it will get worse and last longer as more people head back to work/school). Often times the numbers were worse than that.

I’m not sure what is challenging about mass mobbing a zone devoid of any significant number of TC defenders but perhaps you can let us know because it’s certainly not a challenge being put up by say… the opposing teams.

And yeah, I’d like to see Blackgate go to 3rd place in tier 1 for a few weeks. Their Oceanic is just mass mob, it’s alright. If Tier 1 has the numbers, they’ll mop the floor in NA, hold their own in Oceanic, game over.