Guild Wars 2

KrisHQ.4719:

Before you continue your discussion I’d like to clear some things.
You cannot compare a guardian in sPvP to a WvW guardian. Being an offensive guardian in WvW is possible due to the amount of stat-freedom as well as the extra help from food buffs.
Guardians can deal huge amounts of dmg going 10/30/30 scepter/focus, sword/torch and meditations. This said; It is very subpar in both dmg and survivability to other classes that apply for the same role.

There is a difference in doing good while playing hot-join or solo-roaming and actually being competitive in tPvP. For the latter as of this moment therer is no way an offensive guardian would be preferred to another class.
To answer your question (assuming you’re playing tPvP) = Yes, the only choice you have atm is to be a bunker.
The 10/30/30 build might work in a very niche team comp, I havn’t tried it

This is pretty much exactly my point right here. Again, to those of you that are posting WvW builds or PvE builds, they’re just not viable in tPvP; it’s a completely different environment. Even hotjoin builds aren’t necessarily applicable there. And the ending sentiments pretty much echo my frustrations: the offensive guardian simply cannot compete with what other classes have to offer in the damage department, or mobility department, or killing a bunker….it’s all done better by multiple other classes. Hell, even the bunker role seems to be done more viably by engineers and rangers because they can actually put out enough damage to kill someone 1v1. Staff + Hammer? Forget about it. You can control a point, sure, but no better than an engineer can, and they can self rez.

Mrauls, thank you for the build input. I’m not sure if it will translate to pvp, as that’s my primary focus, but I’ll look into it!

yLoon, I’m going to give your build a shot. Thank you for the constructive post and explanations. I’ve been playing bunker for so long now on the guardian it becomes hard to see things from outside that box, hence my post here.

Anyone else with helpful builds or feedback, please feel free to share. Ideas are good!

Lord Trejgon, I’m well aware of the staff combo to get out of a tight spot. However, given that staff is a bunker support weapon, it’s not what I’m using in any type of dps build.

Of course you could say that, Twitch. I’m not worried about your perception of my play skill. I’m rank 39 and can hold my own against most. Mind sharing a link to your GS/Mace+focus build? like I said in the OP, if I’m missing something I’d like to know what that is.

Mrauls, you’re kinda missing the point. From a competitive pvp standpoint, we don’t even apply much burning pressure, let alone consistently enough to get through condition removal. Our raw damage isn’t very high and I really have no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to mobility. We do have lots of control, that point I’m not contesting. The point is that this game was marketed as being able to play however you want to play. The trait lines just don’t allow for such when it comes to competitive pvp. If you have a dps build that you’re getting success with, feel free to share it; I’d love to test it out.

Perhaps you are correct, Coltz. It may have been a bit preemptive based on that, but I really hope they do some work on the guardian. I guess I can keep my fingers crossed that the official patch notes will mirror the leaks.

I’m not a huge fan of threads complaining about balance. I see them all the time here in the forums and most of the time I try to ignore them as best I can. Enough is enough. I’ve been swapping around classes lately in tPvP really trying to get a feel for more mechanics (previously I almost exclusively played the guardian). My frustrations are beginning to stack up.

I’ve noticed some serious balance issues in regards to trying build a more damage oriented guardian. I have no reliable boon removal to fight against a bunker. I have no reliable condition pressure. I don’t even really have much of a way to exit a fight once I’m in one (retreat?). It seems as if guardians have been pigeonholed into being only a bunker.

I mean, take our “boon removal,” for example: Searing Flames- When you apply burning to a foe, remove a boon. This effect can only trigger once every 20 seconds.
—20 seconds? Really? I can’t even apply burning all that reliably. Sure, virtue of justice applies it every 5th attack, but unless you’re using the sword that’s not even going to happen more than once every 5 seconds or more.

Let’s compare that to a Mesmer: Shattered Concentration- Shatter skills remove a boon on hit.
—Hmm. Now, I’m pretty sure this removes a boon for each hit the shatter skill causes, but let’s assume it just takes off one boon each time you hit it regardless of the number of clones you have. Mind wrack, without traits, has a 15 sec cooldown. That’s half of virtue of justice, so at the minimum you can take of two boons in 15 sec. Then you have three other shatter skills that do the same. Oh and if you trait into it (and let’s be honest, all good tourney Mesmers do), you get another full round of shatter skills at 50% hp. So, at the minimum, in a 30sec or so fight you can take off at least 8-10 boons.

That’s not even to mention thieves and the prevalence of S/d’s boon removal. 2 boons per 3 sec? Come on now. Both of those classes can take me out with zero problems when I’m a bunker because they rip apart my boons. So let’s say I take the middle ground and build a hybrid guardian. I’m not as solid as a bunker, and can’t do as much damage as a guardian with a berserker amulet. I sit somewhere around 2700 attack or so at a good balance of defense and offense. I can’t kill a thief because if I get the upper hand, he will stealth out or use his shortbow/shadow step. I can’t really kill a mesmer unless I use a greatsword because I get overwhelmed by clones/shatters. I certainly can’t kill a bunker guardian, or engineer, or ranger, or elementalist. I might be able to take a warrior and maybe a necro depending on what he has in his slot skills.

I just don’t get it. Even if I’m full bunker, I’m useless without a teammate or two. Those damage classes I listed above demolish me due to boon removal. If I go full damage, I might be able to take them (if they slip up), but have no stealth, no shadowstep, nothing to get me out of the fight if they gain the upper hand. And unlike both the thief and the mesmer, I can’t kill a bunker.

If anyone has some helpful input on this, I’d appreciate it. If I’m missing something, that would be great to know, too. I don’t want to always have to play the same role on my favorite class to be competitive, which is really the heart of the issue.

Thieves, by far, are the worst. After that, I’d say Warriors. It seems that the 1 button auto-win classes are attractive to players that like to troll. And they do seem to go out of their way to do that, too.

WAIT got it. You have to copy and paste the links directly to browser. Apparently the linking system is funny here.

The builds we run are functionally very, very similar, actually. The only differences are a pet choice, a trap choice, the amulet, runes, one sigil and 5 trait points. Personally, running the II trait in skirmishing is a sad waste of trait; the bleed lasts for 1 second from the wiki. It’s a worthless trait that looks good at a glance. Running the wolf pet is counter intuitive for this build, in my opinion, as fear effectively makes people run out of your traps; I opted for the jungle spider since it is ranged (allowing you to use terrain advantage without sacrificing dps) and it has a snare AND stun, both of which keep people stuck in traps.

Archaon.6245:

I put direct link but it keeps saying bad link, on yours also….wtf is wrong with this forum?

well, this is awkward.

Archaon.6245:

Ossa.7482:

Anyone got a link to that ranger build Archaon mentioned?

This is the build fot the treb user taken from our guild’s forum

http://perlanera.net/index.php?site=forum_topic&addreply=true&board=7&topic=40"eID=114&page=1&type=ASC

Your link isn’t working o.O

Here’s a link to the build I’ve been using as a Ranger: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBlYDbEoquOvSuC1OQ0ekJNhJ2D+7oH9KErSGVDA;TwAgyCpo2xsjYH7Oudk7sCZUx+j3HA

Seems to do pretty well against the gauntlet and I can usually get around 300+ points in a random hotjoin match (not that hotjoin matters for tournies).

Sabbathius.1465:

OP,

You just have to stop and ask yourself one simple question: have you ever done that with any other class? If you haven’t, odds are Thief is OP regardless of how you may feel. Or the classes with which you couldn’t do what you did on the Thief are UP. Either way, it’s not balance.

This and more this. This is the one point in here that matters most. I’ve played every single class in the game in pvp: Bunker builds, condition builds, glass cannon builds all in an attempt to figure out my play style and what I liked best. Even as a bunker guardian, there is no way I could survive any reasonable duration of time against 4 players. When you, as a thief, can survive 4v1, you’re able to do something that no other class can even come close to. Doesn’t make a difference if you didn’t kill someone. You literally tied up an entire team for three minutes, which is more than enough time for your team to cap the other two points and then bring backup.