Guild Wars 2

Why not make retal a buff with stacks like might with a max of 5, if you hit him 5 times, the retal is gone.

That’s 5 × 300 damage for 1 passive Skill, more than enough and it won’t hurt pve.

Let the damage as it is, but change retal to a boon with stacks (max 5-15)
Each hit will remove one unit from the stack, problem solved.

Jep, the “My class is useless now, i will quit asap” people are already prepared.

Sebrent.3625:

…
The main issues are that we are not really driving the meta much (aside from healing spring + blast finishers for organized groups) the way walls of reflection, lines of warding, feedback, and glamor builds are.
…

Blast finisher? the non controllable “tail swipe”? how do you manage to get this off where you want?

RyuDragnier.9476:

1. That’s for keeps. For towers, you can stand to the side and hit them.
2. Depends on the tier you’re in, and where you’re at. T5 doesn’t have much problems with Retaliation usually.
3. Depends on the tier you’re in, and where you’re at. I stick with the home borderlands so the guys at Eternal don’t have to worry about it.
4. You don’t need to have pierce on to use the LB for defense (I don’t)
5. Which is why it’s one of those “I’ll use it for the hell of it” abilities.
6. Which is why we use it for defense.
7. You don’t need to. Traps help deal with it if you’re traited in them. If not, use siege.
8. Like I said for 2 and 3, DEPENDS ON THE TIER YOU’RE IN AND LOCATION.

Your arguments seems a little bit helpless.
Traps to defend keep are useless, low range (even if you trait it), low damage, long cd, not any stopping power.

Compare the tools rangers have with the tools of any other profession you want, rangers will allways have the short end in this comparison. (siege)

That’s the reason i prefer a new weapon (staff) with all the little tools the ranger lack.

PS:
No problem with retaliation using Barrage?
One Guardian with retaliation means 12 × 300 = 3600 damage to the barrage using ranger. If the guardian used the shout on his teammates, you can multiply this with 5.

PPS:
I’m playing 7 different lvl 80 professions in WvWvW, maybe this is some backup.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Exactly Durzlla. Between taking a SB and a LB in a tower/keep defense fight, I’ll take the LB every time because you have the range to make the hits hurt, and you’ve got the defensive utility of the entire bow at your disposal.

See an enemy on a Flame Ram? Knock them off with #4. See several people attacking the gates? Throw a #5 their way to make them back off (this work well even if you’re behind the gate aiming the AoE straight at it). Add a #3 to throw 10 stacks of vulnerability on an enemy while your arrow carts and allies are hitting them, and a #2 to help focus fire them, and you have the perfect defensive tool. There’s a reason why you see so many rangers use a LB when they’re not on arrow carts for defense.

1. to hit with #4 down from the wall, you have to stand directly above him, a bad place .
2. #5 will kill the ranger himself (retaliation).
3. 10 stack on ONE enemy? lol, there are 30-80 enemies.
4. pirce don’t work very well from walls, the arrow will hit the ground 0.1 feet behind the target. (if it hits anyway)
5. #2 will be dodged, reflected most of the time, but if you hit him, it’s good.
6. rangers only range ae is on the LB, this is the only reason they chose this weapon.
7. you can’t send your pet down with guard anymore.
8. the roots from entangle will be killed after 0.1 seconds (remember: 30-80 enemys hitting the door)

And now the perfect siege def skills:
- reflection, absorb
- retaliation
- confusion
- every ranged ground ae with big hits (meteor rain etc.)
- bubbles
- fear
- heals(reg) with range effect

Criminal.5627:

MattyP.6954:

I find my ranger to be really useful in large wvwvw fights, especially when it comes to assaulting towers/keeps/stonemist.

So many loot bags…

the only thing useful rangers can do in large fights is barrage which can be an area denial ability, which has a 25 sec cd, pets are horrible in large fights, and in terms of contributing to the over all goal in forcing the foes out/away rangers are still very poor since we got very poor aoe capability at 1,200+ hell all we got for good aoe is traps and barrage, only other thing we can do is run spirit buffs and stay near the back/ mid so they don’t get wiped out. I have yet to find anything more rangers can do in large scale fights that can actually benefit our own server’s goals…. small scale is a lot better for us but we don’t get bags from small scale activities in wvw…
and yes all you need to do is drop barrage on a large group and you can get 10+ bags from that one ability but in aspect of how much you do it isn’t a lot compared to all the other people firing off more spammable aoes on the opposing forces

Never ever use barrage on organized zergs, never, you will be killed by retaliation.

Numbers of one Barrage:
12 Waves x 5 targets x 300 retaliation = 18000 damage to yourselves (if you have bad luck)

The only ranged ae ranger have is not usable against zergs in WvWvW, exept you do it in midfight when the “rush” is over and the retaliation buffs run out.

PS:
24 sec cd traited, 30 sec without.

A zerg build without any fields? without support to your team? without ae against the enemy team?

1) mix in a trap, muddy or a spirit and be carefull with barrage on more than 3 enemies
2) take HS as heal, you will need it to clean confusion (your build lacks conditionremoval)
3) use drakes, they are the only pets hitting more than 1 target
4) be carefull with SB auto on zergs, reflection, confusion, retaliation will hurt you extreme with the fast firing speed
5) axe/torch is viable (firefield, axe bouncing)

Robert Hrouda.1327:

…
Ranger to me isn’t a burst class – it’s a sustain and survive class.
…

Serious question: What is it good for (outside of 1vs1 microcosmosholdtheareaforpoints)?

I hope the devs bring some more content where a sustain and survive class will rule.

funny

Every WvWvW Thread ends in 1vs1 discussion.

TallDan.6350:

All the classes including ranger can be very effective in all aspects of WvW and although rangers are not the best 1v1 class they are far from terrible and can be highly effective and I have also seen some pretty tough 1v1 rangers. I have played sb/lb ranger in wvw a lot and got a lot of kills.

LB I hit from 1500m and my shots pass through you and hit your buddies as well no other class can do this.

SB I kite around and dodge like crazy stacking bleeds.

I used spider and bear as my pets spiders poison and immob and bears can tank for you and help with condi removal.

When it comes to attacking or defending walls LB ranger is boss you can get a lot of kills on people that can’t even hit you.

In small groups the ranger can be a great team member and in large groups you can hang back a little giving out damage but not taking any.

When it comes to soloing camps Rangers are one of the best as you can hide behind your pet and kite the npc’s.

All you need to do is find the strengths of your class and play to them.

This is my experience of actually playing a ranger and my kdr is pretty high, if I’m getting a lot more kills than deaths how can the class be bad?

Are you talking about WvWvW or 1vs1?

Attacking Walls? Defend Walls? with Barrage? or your “obstucted” longbowarrows? or do you kick your pet off the wall, hoping that someone get slayed by his body?

Shots from LB will hit the ground right after the target, there is no magic bouncing to the next target, exept your enemys standing in one spot (and don’t move).

Everyone in WvWvW have a high kdr.
Do you know that every hit on an enemy will give you the kill to your stats?
It doesn’t matter if you kill him or your buddys as long as you hit him once.

I think we have a very different experience in WvWvW

PS:
I have played 7 professions to 80 (exotic gear) and played them at least for 2 weaks in WvWvW each.

WvWvW is the worst environment for the ranger, except you are looking for 1vs1 (but that’s not WvWvW)

- weak groupsupport
- pet can’t contribute to siege
- pet have problems in zerg situations to do anything
- fast firing low damage weapons/skills like SB auto or Barrage will hurt you more than the enemys (retal, confusion, reflection)
- nothing special like portals, bubbles, massdebuff/buff, …

Sebrent.3625:

• You could also list the longbow as area denial since barrage is a nice AOE cripple … it’s just that arrowcarts do it much better so your only advantage is being mobile.

Be carefull with Barrage on a zerg, retaliation will hurt you for 10K+

(12 waves x 5 targets x retaliationdamage)

Ever tried a Ranger with Barrage on a zerg?

12 waves hitting up to 5 Targets = 60 * retal with one Skill, if you have bad luck.
(60*250=15000 Damage)

It have to be retal/used skill, not retal/hit.

jpnova.4572:

That turns it into a complete support weapon and useless in PvE and dungeons. Since besides Skales nothing stealths, works better as a utility really. Which would be loved since we need more fields.

However as I said, staff as a melee weapon, since rangers really aren’t the type to use long range magic.

This is how the ranger class works:
Weapons = utility + some damage
Pet=Damage + some utility

To build another 2Hand wielding Warrior is not wanted.
The problems with pets in dungeons needs some other solutions than a full damage/blasting staff.
Don’t look on the pve-dungeon situation only.

a) the staff have to fill the missing points of ranger class
b) the skills should not hurt weak classes but on the other hand hurt strong ones

maybe something to buff/debuff groups and some ranged ground ae (WvWvW)

e.g.:
-a line on the ground giving everyone crossing it stability/remove it from enemies
-a ranged ground ae making invisible enemies visible/slow them/kill Illusions (high cd)
-throw the staff so that your pet can bring it back, knock everyone down on his path
…

…my main is a ranger.

Pukknub.7368:

I don’t see why people say rangers are so weak in wvw. Sure, it isn’t the strongest class but it is still very useful. A few good rangers in your zerg and it’ll be deadly as never before.
The root ultimate is the most annoying thing ever for example. Muddy terrain is also awesome. Haste stomp. etc.

The root is worthless in zergs/sieges.
Haste stomp is worthless in zergs/sieges.
Muddy terrain (ae slow) is redundant on most classes

Ranger have a 15s Waterfield, that’s all.
For every thing else you can bring any other class to the fight with more of everything.

Best option for Ranger in zerg: trait spirits and act as a buffbot.

WvWvW
strong: Mesmer (Must have Portal, lot of gimmicks with ranged ae)
weak: Ranger (Pet is useless in siege/zerg, least ranged ae/gimmicks)

Ranger have no “special” role, they are doing all the “normal things” other professions can do as well.

Ele can protect siege (uniqe)
Mesmer have portal and timefield (uniqe)
Guard have a lot of bubbles (uniqe)
Thief can stealth a lot(uniqe)

All of this can change the outcome of a battle by using it tactical, so there is a special role for this 4 professions.

Necro, Ranger, Engineer and Warrior lack this kind of abilities, they can do damage, heal, tank or support, better or worse, but thats not enough to fill a “special” role.

My Birds left me and flew away, maybe to much empathic bond

firebreathz.7692:

I have to post this…

all that testing and the fastest kill for a heavy golem was 6.1 with ranger and pet…

try 2.7 secs with just a pet

completely destroyed

hihi, funny

but try this on moving golem, you may be surprised (the sad way)

Solandri.9640:

The only ranged warrior AOE skills are longbow F1 and #2 (looks just like ranger SB #2 except it’s fire instead of poison). So warriors have no advantage vs a group there.

Warrior Longbow AE:
F1: huge fire combofield
2#: cone of arrows with burn (piercing targets, poison arrows from ranger don’t pierce)
3#: nice 3-4k crit AOE with 15 sec. cooldown
4#: Shoot an arrow that explodes on impact, blinding foes

Do you really tested all skills?
Try a double sword build with Warrior, you can stack 25 bleeds in seconds, its the highest single dpm build in game i tested so far.

You are testing 1 vs 1 only

try to make a test group vs. group, there is the point where the Warrior shines and the Ranger sucks.

faeral.7120:

if you want to test actual ranged power numbers, run 20/25/20/0/5 with berserkers & QZ.

No build can compensate the difference in targettracking Arrows from the Thief SB.

If a ranger shot arrows on a left and right sidemoving target on a distance of 700+ then all his arrows will miss, the Arrows from a Thief SB follow the target and will never miss.

Edit:
I think Arrows from a Thief SB are not calculated like the Arrows form Ranger SB, it’s more like the Ranger Mainhand Axe or the 2Handstaff Spells from an Ele.

capuchinseven.8395:

There is no class I fear as a sword/axe and short bow ranger with my slightly off norm build. My survivbility is very high and my damage remains good without any loss in my survivbility using my pet properly and +damage traits and runes.

That’s far away from the topic
but, if i take your advice serious then a ranger have to switch to offhandaxe to be better with his shortbow than a thief?

Rocklin.4106:

another one who didnt realize yet that WD reflects projectiles …

seriously just reflect ONE unload from a thief to turn the fight instantly into a win, and unlike thieves daggerstorm our reflect skill doesnt have 90 sec cd.

So you switch weapons to offhandax and doing what after wd? maybe dancing till the cd for the next weaponswitch is over?

Most annoying:
Thief sb fires homingmissiles, no one can avoid them by moving left and right like someone can do it with sb arrows comming from a ranger.

Ranger is the worst Profession to counter a thief.

The pet give them the target to do all their utility, while the steal give them a heal.
Some more points:
target skills only (exept lb 5)
slow reaction of pet
low damage

There is not a single skill or trait or anything else that can help you to win.
A draw (surviving by running) is the max you can archive

Let the player control the pet with the ranger as escort

Edit:
And give us an option to stow the ranger perma

Ranger need a new Weapon with new skills optimized for WvWvW zerg

Maybe a 2H staff with some ranged aoe skills
for example:
a line of trees growing out of the ground, blocking a path
or a spiderweb blocking all projektiles in an area
or summon some doves, bombarding an area with theire dung causing blindness

Zaknafein.9576:

so then what class compares to an ele in ranged aoe?

Grenade Engi!?

i’m playing 5 * 80 in WvWvW as casual player (ele, warrior, engi, guardian, ranger)
Ranking them by usefullness in WvWvW it’s like (subjective grading):
1. ele
2. warrior
3. engi
4. guardian
5. ranger

most people thinking 1vs1 is WvWvW but it is not.

WvWvW is masszerg, keep defense and keep attack.

comparing my ele with my ranger, it is like day and night.
my ele can dish out 10 times more overall damage/support than my ranger in the same situation/time.

I like orr, it forces me to use some survival skills i usually do not use.

Every confession have several anti control skills, orr give them some usefulness.