Guild Wars 2

I understand what you are saying Fay. When Illusionary Counter triggers Mental Defenses and a mesmer follows up with Cry of Frustration and Mind Wrack many people simply melt. It’s nasty to be sure.

Ross Biddle.2367:

And if you will, can you state what the role of this build is (roaming DPS, bruiser, support, etc) and in brief the playstyle.

I have already talked in some detail about how what I do DURING a match differs from the Chronophantasma.

It’s shame, but when I updated my build after a couple of weeks I didn’t change the torch to shield in the load-out. Woops. But I DID say to you guys that I was now using shield. Instead being intelligent and present-in-the-conversation you guys just kept saying “but torch”.

oh well

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7enknBFphdqBmpBEgiFnjCtx2nEouQT0G9MAGgED-TJxHAB7s/wsPBAAuIA1XGAA

Beautilation thanks for jumping in. I like you’re set-up. I’ve long wanted to use the mantra heal. I like the idea of the insta-cast while in combat. Every time I put it in a build I fail. It must be that I just don’t use it correctly when in actual combat. I get interrupted too much when trying to charge it (so I guess I make bad choices for when to charge it up).

As for your trait choices I like that you punish the enemy when you are being defensive. That’s a neat trick that people probably hate.

Ross you really must be the biggest troll ever. Especially after saying “I’m sorry if you feel trolled”. You acknowlege Beaut’s build and not mine. Gonna quote Beautilation here:

“I think it’s great that you can acknowledge the unique identity of my build, may you also do the same to Maniac Magee? I think his build offers even more diversity.”

Thanks Beautilation.

Lastly someone said I don’t even know what my own build is for. I don’t feel like scrolling up to remember who it was. That’s just silly.

Guys, if you won’t listen to me listen to Fay. Other than the torch thing he seems to understand some of the differences between this and meta (like me being able to rip apart necros safely while meta has to use much caution)

Fay you say landing the shatters will be harder without imob but that i have higher burst. It’s not like that. that’s not the proper use of this most of the time. I send out a shatter or 2 spacing weapon attacks between, keeping substantial stacks (not burst high stacks but enough to really hurt) on the foes, so that even if they clear it’s re-applied. So missing out on the sword really just means I don’t have Blurred Frenzy. That is def a shame, but whatchya gonna do? no build has everything.

Fay ty you’re always reasonable. ty ty. But, i’m not using torch anymore.

oh my god myren. moa for better burst…Ive said I’m not burst oriented. you guys have no idea at all. AND MYREN IF YOU ACTUALLY READ YOU’LL SE THAT I STARTED OUT WITH CHAOS OMG LOLOLOLOL

gotta love when idiots make a suggestion and you’ve been telling them to actually read the post and their suggestion is your prototype that you’ve since tweaked lolol

Ross it’s role and playstyle are not at all like the Chronophantasma. There are too many things I can do that ChronoP can’t and vice-versa. I feel like I’ve already explained this suffieciently. So people who say otherwise either haven’t read or don’t get it. But w/e. The people I spvp with regularly tell me It doesn’t feel like playing alongside a meta mesmer. I don’t make the same choices in the match (rotation, targeting, disengaging etc). But like I just said, either you haven’t read or you don’t understand.

So, better at same job? duh the answer is no. But I don’t do the same job. omg I’m the one playing it so I know i’m not rolling around acting like a sub-par-set-up Meta.

I love how you say “I look at your build I see a condi chono mesmer, albiet non-meta variant…..your’e just playing meta condi” How are all you people saying it’s meta but then ALSO saying it’s not meta? I just don’t get it. reasoning with you guys is like reasoning with a 4yr old that “knows” a wrong fact. oh well. glhf out there.

Apharma. Thanks for the apology. People troll and talk kitten all the time, but yea i get that sometimes it’s just for yuks. As for a reply assessing what you’ve said, just read what I’ve posted. And if you still disagree then w/e people are entitled to their opinion.

Myren, I’m so dissapointed. You say I’m “running the meta” but then basically say i’m not lol. This self contradictory reasoning just means you’ve not read or thought through this set-up. I really shouldn’t be replying, because this post is for people who have my mindset but haven’t been playing long enough to put it all together right, not for nay-sayers who can’t even put enough thought into what they’re saying to not contradict themselves.

I share a skeleton with the Meta because, lets face it, if you want to run condi there are a few things you HAVE to have. But the Meta is not condi, it is a specific condi load-out, with a specific play-style in mind.

Lets get to your contradictions and lack of reading. If I was running Meta, then yes I’d have enough cleanse to not want the Mantra. But I’m not running meta (don’t have Sig of Inspiration to recharge my shatters/cleanses, which is a big DEFINING part of the meta) so the Mantra helps me AND my team. Also if i was running Meta I wouldn’t gain 2.5k hp on use of the mantra. But I’m not, so I do.

Next: I ALREADY SAID THAT I DON’T CARE ABOUT THE ENEMY AoE KILLING THE CLONES FROM MIRROR IMAGES, BECAUSE I USE IT TO CHARGE F4 AND F5. It’s instant. And those things work GREAT in 1v1 OR team fights. Because i can Chaos Storm/Gravity Well, then do it again. And w/e you say that’s great in a team fight. Both great skills. Or I can use the f4 and f5 for other things, the point is that with mirror images I can always have enough illusions to pop those two things meaningfully – offensively, defensively, or supportively. The Meta build has no such guarantee. Wow, it’s different than the meta. Like I’ve been saying. hmm….

Now for your use of “meta chronomancer Traits”, “Meta Inspiration traits” etcetc. Omg dude. The meta build is a synergistic amalgamation of traits, skills, and equipement. As for the ‘Trait choices’ one makes….lets face it there’re good and bad traits. There’s variability in effective BUILDS, but sometimes in the trait tiers (adept, master, and grandmaster) where you have 3 choices each there’s only 1 or 2 that are any good at all. So, sometimes trait choices can coincide with the “meta” but not be part of a “meta-build”.

What ignorance. I could go on and on, but you probably won’t read, and definitely wouldn’t understand. So w/e. Hopefully some mesmer out there who likes condi, but isn’t a fan of always doing the meta thing, will read this. They will get value out of it and that’s what matters. Explaining myself to insistent-but-ignorant people is not what I’m here for, so I’ll leave it at this until someone asks a legit question.

Myren, you haven’t even really read. Here’s the ways I think you don’t understand:

1) I’m not using Torch anymore
2) I listed the differences between this and Chronophantasma meta. I even gave a brief strategic assesment of WHY those differences mattered.
3) Um…#2 was so ignored by you and detailed enough that I think it bears repetition.

Also, I absolutely wreck DHs (at least the meta ones) so I don’t know why you mentioned them.

And Mirror Images is a GREAT skill. The AoE doesn’t matter, because its use is mainly to get instant use (often paired with Phase Retreat) out of F4 or F5.

The utilities I have that Chronophantasma doesn’t are SO key. Not having the Signet to recharge my Fs is a big big difference by itself.

I’m gonna go back to points 2 and 3 here because you really don’t understand. Without portal I HAVE to stay in the fight. This ALONE puts me in a different role than Chronophantasma. I have further widened the gap between my role and the meta’s role by adding more sustain on my Utility bar and more focused dmg on my main hand. I definitely can bust out every skill I got for a big burst (and occasionally I do when it’s appropriate) but most of the time I cycle through my skills in a slower, more reactive manner than the meta build. My set-up does not work well if you have a “skill rotation”.

So, this’s different in: Role, Attack Pattern, Defense, Load-out, and General Mindset. What more can I say? That’s different in every meaningful way. Just because they’re both condi mesmer doesn’t make them the same. Just because it shares some traits and an amulet (which almost should be chosen for ANY mesmer condi set-up) Doesn’t make it execute at all the same.

Pico I take that many because there’s so many condi’s getting thrown around that it really pays off. Since I’m NOT meta I need to sustain longer rather than just burst and portal. It catches people off guard (they expect the meta) and I end up sustaining and winning.

Ty for actually asking a question. So far people just wanna be negative, without reading or understanding.

Ross Biddle. Wow. ok so you do play mesmer? But you’re unfamiliar on such a level that you can’t see the extent of the difference between meta Chronophantasma and my set-up. Or maybe you just don’t know how specific of a role the Chronophantasma actually takes when used properly (watch some Helseth videos. He’s arrogant and talks really loud but it shows portal use and Chronophantasma use well and at a high level).

My set-up lacks the things that give the Chronophantasma it’s specialized pvp role, and adds things that make it take a very different role.

Ross Biddle, my amulet is now actually the same but it wasn’t before (i’ve switched to the Sage amulet). But my rune, elite, main-hand, Heal, two utility skills, two traits, and all 4 sigils are different from the meta. That’s quite a list of differences… It makes for more nuanced and variable attack patterns.

It Means my rotations both for stacking condis and managing cooldowns is very different than the meta.

The meta uses portal; it’s supposed to be used to maximize the match-up you’re given but lots of mesmers use it to bail and switch points when they can’t handle themselves. My build commits for the duration. It’s different in the way it attacks, defends, and in it’s role in the team.

For you to say that it just meta with a different weapon tells me you haven’t thought much about this. Or maybe you don’t play mesmer? I remember your name but will have to go back and read what you’ve posted on here.

Lol, playing with myself a bit for sure. Obviously Apharma this post is a prolonged pet project of mine. But it’s ok. At least this kinda masturbation is satisfying. Commenting on people’s post with needless jabs is the kind of thing teenage kids do…it’s so old hat and boring.

I’ve been using this in ranked heavily for another 2 weeks and had to tweak the build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7fnknBFphdqBmpBEgiFnj6MAGgEDtx2nEouQT0GF-TJxHAB7s/AAXEgZfCA1XGAA

I changed the Chaos traitline to Inspiration. While I really enjoy the quality of life you get out of the Chaos traits I had chosen (the finessed play you get from the Manipulation traited skills and the Stability on Shatter), the fact is that many many times there are far too many Conditions being thrown at you. I understand that no build on any class will have an even match-up with EVERY other build, but in the current meta-game you need to be able to handle Condis. I always go for a well-rounded custom set-up (something that is never present in the meta-game, but always valuable when used with skill) So, I switched to the Inspiration line and find myself much better able to sustain long enough.

Obviously without Master of Manipulation Mirror is simply not good enough. I have toyed with both Ether Feast and Well of Eternity. They both have their merits, but a large part of the well’s benefits are only reaped if your team stays in the well. Ether Feast remains a solid and reliable choice.

I agree with the OP wholeheartedly. This season the classes are fairly well balanced. I love it….EXCEPT I keep seeing WvW roaming tactics in sPvP. People roaming to far while home AND mid need help. These players are not here for ranked. They don’t know how to play. They are playing ranked for the free rewards.

I still love the Staff and Scepter so my new build keeps the Chaos and Illusions trait lines, adding Chronomancer instead of Dueling. Without dueling Precision becomes less important and Movement Speed is taken care of with the Chrono line so I had to pick a new Amulet and Rune. Mirror Images has a nicely reduced cooldown (especially with the Illusions traitline) and Invisibility is less useful nowadays with so many classes having AoE control effects and tracking skills that continue to hit you while invisible. So I swapped my GM trait in Chaos from Prismatic Understanding to Bountiful Disillusionment for the Stability and boons, Decoy for Mirror Images, and Mass Invisibility for Gravity Well. I wanted to be able to keep up constant, un-ebbing pressure as before, but also wanted to be able to blow cooldowns for bigger bursts. Mesmer builds that focus on only burst or only sustain will always have a counter. Mesmer builds that are reactionary are harder to master but handle a much wider array of foes. With Illusionary Reversion and Chronophantasma frequent shattering is a must so I wanted some Power to go with my Condition Damage.

Here’s what I’ve been using: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7fnsnBFphdqBmpBEgilXjycFmhaCNAypjoeYP2lF-TJxHABAcRAMqMwsPBgd2fAA

If you enjoy glassier play then changes in Rune and Amulet easily satisfy. Take Rune of the Nightmare and Viper’s Amulet: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7fnsnBFphdqBmpBEgilXjCNAypjoeYP2l1cFmhaC-TJxHABAcRAm9JAwdZAg2fAA

I definitely plan on playing both ways to explore the ups and downs of each set-up.

Just as with my old build this new one has many many options offensively and defensively. One of my favorite things to do when there’s a big brawl over a control point is to Continuum Split for a double Chaos Storm/Gravity well followed by as full of a shatter sequence as possible. The damage and disruption from this is fantastic. But in smaller fights and duels this build can slow down it’s shatters and Illusion summoning for a constant single target pressure that flows at the same speed as the cooldowns. It’s a very fun build.

Happy Holidays guys, give it a try and enjoy

- Maniac Magee

I’ve no idea if anyone still cares about this post but I’ve got a follow-up and can’t think of a better place. My original post focused a lot on PvE, but I’ve done mainly sPvP for quite some time preceding HoT and continuing through as new updates come – all the while using the Maniac Magician build. As the sPvP meta changed over the years I kept the build the same and just changed my habits to match whatever the players were doing at the time. At the beginning I could stay on the staff 90% of the time and whittle people down with the bleeds and clones, never shattering. Eventually the Scepter was buffed a bit while glass builds got so good that I has to use the block and confusion on scepter, as well as the shatters for extra confusion (and PBAoE blind!) to keep up. But it worked very well and introduced some higher risk-reward play as I learned to sometimes blow all my cooldowns at one time offensively or defensively instead of always playing the slow game.

With the new meta introduced by HoT, Conditions became a good bit more viable in all game modes. New builds on several classes pumped out more Condition Damage than we’d seen previously, and a few conditions were even re-worked. Even with the introduction of HoT the same old build was very effective. However, as that meta developed and players fully explored new options I finally started to feel out of date. This was largely due to a population-wide adoption of condition mitigation. As Condi play took a more prominant role people had to learn how to deal with it: I found they were learning to combat the massive condi bombs, first from Burn Guards, then Reapers, and Scappers. My old-school condi was just not hitting the way it used to. It took 4 years but I have finally retired my Maniac Magician build first inspired by Mr. Prometheus’ Comprehensive Mesmer Guide way back at launch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eZ0NNd7b60). But there is good news for Staff/Scepter+Torch users: the weapon set is stronger than ever (though for many the shield has replaced torch).

Two additions to the Mesmer have changed our class. Obviously the Chronomancer traitline, but also Inspiration is now a strong traitline and provides some wonderful condition mitigation. So the build options available to us Mesmers expanded significantly in the past year. There were whole new takes on Phantasm and classic Shatter builds and even Condition-Shatter. I have seen 16-illusion shatter-condi-bombs for 25 stacks of Confusion, and I’ve seen Chrono-Phantasm builds that juke and block and play the trickster using the shield instead of going invis. It’s been a fun ride.

Once I put the Magician to rest the thing to do seemed to be to learn Chronomancer. Of course I played with the meta-builds first – both Hard damage and Condi damage. Meta-builds are always effective but they’re often simple and linear with too many counters. They get boring quickly so I undertook to make a build of my own like before. The Maniac Magician was efficient and synergistic. There were no wasted stats, minor traits, or major traits. Everything tied in together with multiple uses, taking full advantage of the dual nature many Mesmer skills have and, I think, this is why it lasted so long. So I’ve worked towards replicating that efficiency into another fully synergistic build.

Low damage out-put has been something people mention over and over again when talking about this kind of mesmer set-up. I am aware that there is a whole Meta built around maximizing damage both in the form of Burst Damage and Damage Per Second. Players who have both the advantage of creative intelligence and gratuitous free time literally crunch numbers to set efficient standards for damage out-put.

The Meta is established, informally, for a reason. But these meta-theory-crafters are not the only ones who toy and experiment. I remember toying with the Burn Guard set-up when it was first coming ’round. I killed the Warrior NPC in the Heart of the Mists in 13 seconds without using quickness to boost skill activation (I did re-test it recently to see if it still worked and it does). This build had no testing whatsoever for survivability or viability. I only wanted to maximize damage out-put so that I could better understand my opponents. But surely this has been improved upon. Not only did I not use the torch, but it was only 2 hours spent fooling around. Still it is fast. There are viable builds fully capable of killing sPvP opponents that do far less damage. Celestial D/D Ele reigned for quite some time with only moderate damage out-put.

I can kill the same NPC with the Maniac Magician build in 15 seconds. From start to stomp. Afterwards I still have my elite, Blink, Heal, Scepter 2 and 3 and 4, Staff 3 and 4, and F3 and F1 available. Not to mention several of the skills I did use do not have long cooldowns (F2 and Scepter 5 are not far from usable after the chain). THIS IS NOT LOW DAMAGE. I am aware of thieves and warriors and rangers and Dragon Hunters doing more DPS. I also know how fragile they have to make themselves to achieve such DPS focus. All but 1 of the skills I listed above as still available after the burst are defensive. This should tell anyone interested that The Maniac Magician’s balance between defense and damage is Functional.

I started this thread talking about the staff specifically, but have always always put forth the build as a whole for people to use. I also have mentioned the Blackwater Build (by Natsu if I remember correctly). It used to differ in it’s traits and weapon-focus in that the Scepter was more important. This used to be necessary due to the way Mesmer Traits were set up. I would guess that now the two builds are very much more similar with the Trait Re-work. But whether the two builds differ or not they both use(d) Staff/Scepter-Torch. This set-up can work. It always has worked.

I re-iterate once again: anyone who comes on here and tells you otherwise does not know what they are talking about. They either have not really looked at how the damage adds up (only looking at individual skills thinking they suck) or have tested superficially and decided without learning the intricacies of this set-up.

I encourage anyone actually interested in this play style to post questions. I’m willing to answer in form of a post or in-game. I am not here to try to sway people who’ve long since made up their minds. Please only post if you’re one of the former.

Fay your last paragraph asking me about staff hate is off topic. I’m here to talk about the staff and my build; just because I have mentioned general player-base dislike of the weapon does not mean it is the main subject.

Clicking on “view messages by user” it is apparent very quickly that you go from thread to thread to thread posting negatively. Most people may get sucked into negative exchanges with you but after I skimmed 30 of your posts in a row and saw nothing positive I figure there’s no point. I won’t be responding to anything else you post unless I feel it positively contributes to this post. I do hope that you have constructive influence somewhere.

In a thread that’s been around for a year you have the most immature post. Most people post using quotations of previous posters to illustrate real points, each of yours were just snarky comments I’d expect out of an adolescent. I especially love the “Oh. Stronghold.” As if that says it all. It says nothing. Has no depth.

The staff has always been the least favorite Mesmer weapon, and I used to get crap from people everywhere I went in game for carrying one. How long have you been playing?

Anyway the purpose of this post is clearly for people who are interested in the staff and are looking for a positive opinion with some detail. You’ve not brought anything useful yet but please do if you feel you have it in you.

I was on sPvP a lot today, and died once. Once. I killed all kinds of classes and builds. I ran supply. I held at different times all the roles in a game, not just killing people. I was top 2 team player many times, and my teams won most of our matches. If staff was so bad I’d have dragged the wonderful teams I had down a bit.

Lol Fay. I went months and months without even looking at this. I have been experimenting a lot with mesmer builds (which I’ve always done) especially with Chronomancer. I always come back to my old Maniac Magician set-up. So I wondered today if in the current new meta, which is more condi heavy, if anyone re-thought their stance on Mesmer Staff and took a look at this old thread of mine. I decided to update it since I was here. It’s funny. I’ve been such a fan of staff mesmer for so long. But for so long the player base has been against it so I guess that’s where my “dedication” comes from. Its not dedication it is really stubbornness trying to get people to see what I see.

Magnito:
I know you posted that over a year ago…but on the off chance that you are just ignorant and not a troll and for others’ benefit I’ll respond. So definining a whole build on one trait is ludicrous. PU mesmer is not a ‘thing’. You have GS PU, at one point in time you had Celestial Sword+Torch/Scepter+Sword PU, hard dmg PU, Condi PU. Simply put there is no ‘PU build’. Mesmers are the “masters of illusion” so if you have a problem with them going invisible maybe you should go way way back and read the original marketing and theme of the class. If you think PU is over-powered, then test it for yourself. I heard had people say that PU mesmers have 80% uptime of protection. That is ridiculous: protection is one of several RANDOM boons given to a PU mesmer while invisible and there is NO WAY to get the kind of invisibility uptime that thieves have so protection at 80% uptime is impossible. PU is just a trait. It’s a good one sure. But no where near as good as the Empathic Bond so many rangers use. But I do not call all rangers EB rangers. There are good traits and bad traits in every class. The hate that used to be (and still is sometimes) given to mesmers who trait PU is dumb.

I hope this helped somebody. All of you guys are welcome to message me in game to duel, run spvp together, chat, ask questions or whatever you want. If what I’ve said does not convince you then please come see for yourself. If I run 30 matches of sPvP I might see 1 other mesmer using staff condi. Most are GS. But I do well for myself. This works and always has since launch. The nay-sayers simply have not developed the skill to do well. Remember guys the most rewarding things often take the most effort to learn.

F3 Shatter. Most people don’t use this much. Great mesmers do. Many of the clones you’ll have out are due to dodge rolling (Deceptive Evasion). This means they might not be targeted onto your target, but whoever was closest to you at the time instead. So in a group fight you can Daze multiple foes. This can turn the tide if your allies are any good. Or in a 1v1 use it Immediatly after Confusion to interrupt the attempt to remove it. Used with inexperience this wastes illusions making you more vulnerable. Used expertly this shatter provides proper transition between your own strategies and skill uses (uses, not rotations. never use set rotations with condi mesmer).

Blowing Cooldowns. Sometimes blowing all your cooldowns to seriously pressure an opponent can be very strong but it does leave you vulnerable. It is risky. Doing this adds a whole ‘nother dimension to this build. If you do it at the wrong time and it doesn’t pay off you die. If you do it at the right time you make get a kill. Or you can do it make an opponent back off when you are almost dead yourself. Scepter3, plus F2, plus more illusion summoning (which may mean you have to waste decoy), plus F1 or F3, plus Scepter 2 followed by a cloak or Choas Storm can be devastating. But you’ve used most of your big skills AND your Weapon Swap. Knowing capabilities of the various classes you’re up against is vital to using this strategy. Again I have to re-iterate that there is no skill rotation. Even with blowing cooldowns do you use Scepter 3 first? or Scepter 2? or F2? How many clones do you have out and how many could you summon? Which do you want them to condi clear b4 the rest of the burst? Are they likely to run? Confusion first then Torment. Are they likely to try to burst you down as they die? Torment then Confusion and Burning. Try to leave an out in case it goes south. Be ready to Blink away. Be ready to F4 (assuming you have a couple of illusions). At a high level the decision to make this kind of risk at the right time is how you take out skilled players.

Chaos Storm/Staff5. Hopefully I do not have to tell you that you should always use Phase Retreat/Staff2 in it to give yourself Chaos Armor – which gives you boons, weakness and other condis to foes, and reduces the CD on all Staff skills. Use Chaos storm+Chaos armor when rezzing an ally. Use Chaos Storm to interrupt someone who’s rezzing a foe. These are easy. But in combat how you use it comes down to assessing the situation and making the right choice. Use on yourself+clones at the beginning of a fight. The boons help nullify the initial attempts of your foe(s). But some people don’t start the fight with lots of burst RIGHT off the bat, so you gotta pay attention. So when do you use it offensively? Only when they’re health is low. The poison from it will reduce how much they can heal, and the interrupt it can provide might interrupt their heal. But you’ve got to use other stuff with it to put pressure – it’s not an over powered skill by itself. As for what to use with it, when, and against whom I will leave to you to figure out your own preferances.

Illusionary Counter/Scepter2. Do you use this for offense (it does Torment) or defense (it blocks an attack) or clone generation (it creates a clone on successful block) or Blind (it can be activated a second time to blind a foe)? See it is multi purpose. It has 4 possible effects. Which effect you use it for matters. Don’t simply use it; use it with intention. It is not vanilla, not spam-worthy. The nuance is picky and awesome with this skill. Not part of a rotation: it should be used situationally.

Set skill rotations. That is the first and biggest mistake. The Staff and Scepter are reactionary weapons. You use your skills based on what your opponent does. Using a rotation is blind. Most people play offensive so much they do not understand how to use the staff. When offensive your focus is on attacking accurately. With the Staff your focus is to move accurately. The clones and your auto attack do the dmg. Then right when your opponent least expects it you Shatter and go to Scepter to go more offensive. Or you do the opposite. Pressure them with Scepter till they ‘know’ you can’t have many skills up and then swith to staff so that their offensive push does nothing but fail, killing their morale. If you get to the point where you have no pattern, no predicable skill rotation, you can play mind games that not just irritate skilled opponents but destroy them.

Kury:
Nice to meet another fan of Mesmer Staff but I gotta say in sPvP it can be so much more than easy mode. It CAN be easy mode though so let me clarify. The Staff/Scepter+Torch can be very defensive, mobile, and evasive. Using it you can harass someone and stay alive for a long time. And this is not hard to do. But a halfway decent opponent won’t die to this kind of play. So people do often think that it is fun, easy, and limited. I have had several good friends in GW2 who see what I do and wanted to try it out since I’ve been doing it for so freaking long. They loved it for a while. They felt survivable, had fun messing with people etc etc. But these friends tired quickly of that and found that they could not take on 3 people at a time without running, could not kill good opponents, and felt like they could not reproduce my results. So I talked to them about some of the strategies that I use and they got a little better. Most of them did eventually go back to their own personally preferred set-ups but they did see the potential for the kind of subtlety that changes it from kinda lame easy mode to serious kitten. Below are some general ideas that can start you off on the more nuanced play of the staff in sPvP.

Sirrealist:
The thing about this build is that you can ignore your defensive strategies and blow cooldowns to stack condis from both weapons and all Shatters. When you’ve put 14 stacks of confusion, 6+ stacks of Torment, and are putting burn and bleed constantly your dmg is very high. Also note from the build link that I use condi duration food and sigils. Most people who’ve tried this build after reading the post don’t spend the money for that stuff just to test. So their comments about dmg ouput are bunk anyway. People whine about it being expensive but it is a huge bonus to dmg output. Huge. And worth the money since money’s not that hard to come buy. Yes there are higher dmg output builds. But If you want to be MAX dmg then mesmer isn’t the class for you anyhow. The dmg output of this build is also very constant which I like.

Yes it is ridiculously irritating to destroy object with this (or any other condi class) but this’s a TEAM game. so hopefully you have people on your team who can help with that. Just as you can help them with a variety of strategies this build provides.

OP here.

I have not checked this in a long long time. It is kinda nice to see people still posting, though I am VERY surprised that the responses seem to be about the same after all this time. Guys, we are in a bit of a condi meta right now. This build was always strong in pvp, it is even more so now (as some of the skills and traits of this build have been changed since I created this thread). In PvE it certainly was never part of a zerk speed group – but now with the boosts to the Scepter, boosts to Confusion, and trait changes it is VERY good in pve.

I still use this exact same build. Well, there’s been the game wide trait re-work since but yea I use this same thing. I loved the trait re-work’s effect on this build. If anyone wants me to go over the changes please ask. Otherwise I will assume you guys are educated game-wise already.

PvE: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhUQNAW7flknhi0YjawMNwtGLvGUZC6d0MXxMGBaAy5RA-TxxYwA/U/59TAYhSQ4XEAR6GGt/AAlfkCYRlVA-e

sPvP: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAW7flknhi0YjawMNwtGLvGEaAy5RKTQvjm5KmxIA-TJBBABAcRAErMgg7PsxTAAA

I spent months back at launch fine tuning this setup (remember back then there were a lot of things we were still figuring out about the game that are common knowledge now). I made it so that every single skill and trait has a purpose. There was nothing in this build that was superfluous. It was extremely efficient. It is still that way. There’s not even a minor trait that’s useless. Many many builds have pointless traits in them that you’ve got to take because you want the trait after it. This efficiency makes a big difference but it’s kinda subtle and unnoticed to people who just spam attacks and call it easy mode. There’s nuance in the skill-use-order that takes a long time to work out because you have to be knowledgeable enough about this build to know every trait and every skill and whether it is currently on cd or not at any given moment. Only with that kind of knowledge can you properly decide what to do. Do not use this build with a set skill rotation and expect to be able to judge it. I know that many people who’ve viewed this post and tried to have done that. I know because of the vanilla detail they give in their responses.

I’ve been away for a bit. Love the things said so far.

Ross Biddle you asked about a thief duel. I will always grant that a staff build is easy to run from 1v1. It’s meant to be part of a team (though technically all classes are). BUT. I rarely lose a fight to a thief. It has happened. There is always a better player. But thieves do not generally give a staff mesmer much trouble.

SrebX. I am glad you asked. In sPvP I use Accuracy or Energy Sigils. Lyssa Runes work very well if you use Mass Invis b/c of its relatively low cd. If you use a Focus instead of Torch then Centaur Runes allow for easy swiftness. But I stick with the same traits and rabid gear in sPvP. If you have more questions plz feel free.

DuckDuckBoom. If you do not like randomness then staff is not for you. You are absolutely right about the random nature of the staff. But that is part of the fun and chaos of many mesmer playstyles.

One Note Chord. I have to applaud you for your attitude. Thank you. People should feel free to play the way they want. I do not feel that mis-represented the endgame content. There is a small portion of the GW2 players who truly are pro and can ignore much of what I cautioned people about. BUT. I play with a nice variety of people. There are a few in our groups like me who are very knowledgeable and capable and rarely have any problems. But we also always have a few who are less experienced. Not terrible, or stupid. They simply have played less. There will always be those people and I love playing with them. But groups that “never” have any problems with Arah p4 or lvl 80 TA are not nearly as common as the non-pro ones. So what I have to say is there for the MAJORITY of the players. Those of you out there who are exceptions know who you are and need not take what I say to heart. If this wasnt true then you would not have added the “Well, strictly speaking it’s probably at least close to true” part to your opening statement.

As for dmg, I love having dmg dealers in my groups. I am in no way saying dmg doesnt make things faster and therefore easier. While i may have come on strong with many things I said plz remember this is a mesmer thread, and a mesmer post. I am addressing specifically a problem in attitude that exists in the mesmer player base not talking about the game in general. However, specialization is limiting. Aside from those less common full pro groups most people need a hand sometimes. My staff build allows me to be a backbone to any group. Not a tank I want to be clear about “backbone.” I can rez easier than most due to blink, chaos armor, chaos storm, several invis skills, and having multiple stun breaks and a good amount of toughness (I have more armor than zerker warriors). I ADD dmg to people with my boons, and my clones take heat off of the group regularly. None of this is exclusive to a staff mesmer but the staff does lend itself to this very well. Another side to this age-old argument is the fact that some people really play well with glass cannon set-ups and groups, and others don’t. I think the real mis-representation is on the part of the dmg fanatics in this game. They think that it is the only style that works and the only style that requires skill. That is simply not true. Both styles work, both require skill, and different kinds of players will naturally excel at 1 or the other. An ideal group has both kinds of players. That kind of group will be fast enough, stable enough, and fun as hell. That is what I personally shoot for.

Thanks for all your input guys. Keep it coming. I have seen far less trolling than I expected. You guys have mostly had interesting and logical things to say.

Next you addressed my assessment of damage and it’s value in the game. Let me first clear up that I value damage players being on my team. I need them; but they likewise need me. If you want actual data from in-combat I will fail you there – I know what I know from playing a long time with this setup but cannot quote numbers on everything I have observed. But I would definitely be available to get together and show you some of the things I have described so you can see.

“A good staff mesmer will not outdamage a good scepter, sword or GS mesmer.” This is true. However a good staff mesmer can maintain a backbone in a group that few other classes can. You appear to be everywhere, you are constantly putting pressure on potentially multiple opponents, and can help your allies in a multitude of ways I have already covered.

Going back up in your post a bit you said “your condition stacks conflicting with OTHER condition classes”. I am not sure what you mean by this. It is rare to have more than 2 condition classes in a group (because the value of conditions is largely underrated I feel) and there is always room for 2 of them. Most of the time it is a necromancer but their Epidemic only strengthens your build and the whole team. More than 2 is indeed sometimes a waste of bleeds….but NO group is perfect. I have more condition damage than most other condi classes with my setup and my condi’s are not a waste. Ever. In fact, because I am condi my damage largely continues while I divert my attention to help allies. That is a bigger deal than most realize. Again I do not have numbers but please come on a run with me and my teams to see what I’m talking about.

You said I do not have any comparative data. Yea that is true. I did not (and mostly likely will not as I work and socialize and would like to play GW2 not just talk about it) accumulate a ton of data. This post is an accumulation of my extensive experience. I have seen so many times where damage based mesmers on teams with me are constantly having to be rezzed while the other classes (who can do as much if not more damage) are fine. I am not here to say that the staff is better than the other mesmer weapon choices but I do think it is underrated and has a lot of misinformation about it. You said the same about this whole thread. But you mostly pointed out things that I already addressed. If you want an entire team of zerkers because you think that is the most efficient way to play the game then go ahead; hell in some senses you are correct. But many many players benefit from a utility class or two in their group. That is a fact that can be shot down verbally time and time again but each time I rez the entire team on Mai Trin and get them to finish it and each time I solo the last 20% of the essence collection from the Lover’s Cript in AC because we did not have enough “all important damage” to carry through I will know that the staff saved the team a complete re-do. In many ways the staff mesmer is a boon to any individuals who learn to use it and any groups lucky enough to have an experienced staff mesmer around.

Please feel free to whisper me in game or send me a mail. I’d like to show you some of what I am talking about. From what you say I really don’t think you have seen a fully competent staff mesmer. You say it is your fav weapon but I cannot believe that you love it as much as I do and still not see it’s benefits.

Dear Chaos Archangel thanks for the constructive response. Always nice to see mature and well-spoken people on the forums.

I still have to disagree with you on most accounts. A few things you said were right however, so let’s cover those first.

The staff is indeed lower damage than the other mesmer weapon choices. While I covered this in great detail (with some numbers) in my original post(s) it always bears revisiting as damage is indeed a very important game mechanic. No weapon will have the defensive capabilities of the staff and the damage of the GS or 1H sword. Plain and simple.

But this is by no means a downside to the staff. Every group, no matter how experienced, has wipes or near wipes in the high end arenas of this game. I cannot tell you how many times I have finished the fight solo or sat there absorbing damage and avoiding damage till I have the entire team back in the game. Show me a glass cannon mesmer that can do that consistently. Damage is not the end-all-be-all of GW2. Not now and, based on the talk of the Devs, not ever. Utility and survivability are important and useful.

Next you said that any player can simply run from a staff mesmer. That also is true. And can be frustrating.

But I believe in playing with well-balanced groups. This means that the CC you lack as a staff mesmer should be covered by your teammates just as their lack of survivability is covered by you.

Next something I completely disagree with, sorry. You said the staff is a bad choice in PvE. This is not a new argument, and will continue. But I play with a large variety of groups – pugs, guild groups, and long time friends – and not all of them have as much fury and might as they’d like. Staff attacks def help with that. Blinking to an ally laying down Chaos Storm and popping Chaos Armor you can rez your teammates seconds after they’re downed in a way few other classes/builds can. If that’s not valuable to the extreme pro’s in the game it certainly is for the other 99% of the player base. These I believe are the kind of details you asked for. But I’d like to go further.

In both PvE and sPvP/WvW your illusions don’t simply inflict conditions they can act as a literal meat shield. Put them between yourself and your opponents so that they take the damage and not you. While you can do this with any mesmer build, the Staff centric builds have the highest illusion creation rate (if made properly). There are simply too many nuanced details like this to list all of them or give “comparative data” in one thread.

Ross Biddle: I don’t expect everyone to read the whole thing but if you are going to post about some specifics then make sure I havent covered it first. I have stated already that it is meant to be with a group. I do havoc in WvW and the staff build is a wonderful thing to have in a group of 5-20 player fights. This game is SUPPOSED to be played with a team. I have already said that if you’re a solo roamer you don’t need to pay attention here. Solo Roaming is for kitten builders. Next sry but I can easily afford the toxic crystals.

Quercus: Same to you – read the post before commenting. If you don’t want to read it then don’t post about specifics. I said that you cannot simply “try” this kind of build for a short time. I do PLENTY of damage with this build because I know how to use it. Practice makes perfect.

Cuge: Condi is bad in PvE? Are we even playing the same game? I dont even know where to begin to discuss that one. Condi is vaulable in all situations.

Anton: Blanket statements dont hold any water. Give details and specifics like I did. That’s the constructive way to enter this discussion.

So far I see some good responses here and I want to thank you guys for (mostly) not trolling and being ignorant. Got a couple of things to say.

1) I knew but had not really paid attention to the LoS not being necessary for Phase Retreat. That is a very very important thing to note as it affects aggro, Ether Feast, and Shattering. Tyvm for noting that Lanhelin.

2) To the people out there who think staff 4 and 5 are worthless: many many things become less worthwhile in a zerg. But in 5-10 group fights like almost all PvE and much WvW play (go havoc guys it aint all about the karma train) staff 4 and 5 are wonderful. They are not there as a cure all. Learn when to use them or stop talking about them as if you know. I use them to great effect so I KNOW they are good. Enough said.

3) This post is here to inform people who are curious about the staff. There are numerous threads where mesmers talk about how much damage they do and how great they are when they don’t use the staff. Stay there if that’s you. I do not intend to educate the masses of misinformed mesmers out there; only to provide an alternate play-style and opinion to open minded people.

Gear

Rabid stats on everything, already explained above.

Secondary Weapon Set – should be scepter torch. The extra invis from the torch and the extra confusion/retaliation from the torch’s phantasm are great. The Scepter can help make clones for a CoF Shatter as well as stack LARGE amounts of confusion and block putting Torment on your foe. These can be used to pump out a lot of damage, however since a smart opponent will not be using skill while stacked with confusion these two weapons make a break in the fighting where you can stop them from doing things and go invis to drop target while your heal cools down. Very useful in PvP. In PvE the blind from the scepter 2 is invaluable. Use with good timing (take practice but is totally doable) you can prevent an almost downed ally from getting the next hit allowing them to survive long enough for another roll or a heal. Confusion from this can be very high damage to PvE opponents and very predictable once you know their attack pattern. With a bunch of staff clones out stacking bleed and burn you can then switch to the scepter to add another several thousand damage. These two weapon sets (Staff and Scepter/Torch) compliment each other very well. Scepter/Torch however is difficult to use in a PvE setting and requires a bit of mastery. So a nice option is to use 1H sword/Focus instead. Lots of utility in there, and its much easier to master.

Runes – I use Travelers Runes. the movement speed alone makes them worth it but their normal bonuses are not bad either. With all the boons you add to a party Boon Duration is great. Same to Condition duration.

Sigils – Bursting on your Staff and Scepter and Energy on the Torch. Bursting is amazing. I used bleed duration sigils for a long time until i learned about Bursting. It adds an extra 100 Condition damage putting you at just above 1700. This means your conditions will be hitting extremely hard.

Last Thoughts
I think that about covers it. The Staff builds do have some weaknesses that I am sure people who reply to this post will point out and rage about. Keep in mind that NO build and NO class is without equivalent weaknesses. Staff builds are a lot of fun with high action and a high learning curve so you will not get bored quickly. Play with the traits and gear set-up frequently to A) make improvements based on your play style and to get a better idea of the value of what I have put down here today.

Illusions

Minor Traits

5pt – Illusionary Retribution: All Shatter skills inflict confusion (1 stack for 5 3/4 seconds). Not only does this double the power of Cry of Frustration but it makes all other Shatters as useful for a condition class as CoF was originally.

15pt – Illusionists Celerity: Reduce recharge on illusion-summoning skills (20%). This (along with Deceptive Evasion and PU) is one of the top traits for ANY mesmer. It affects so many of our skills. So many important ones at that. Most notably with a staff build it will stack with Chaotic Dampening to give a 40% cd reduction for Phase Retreat.

Major Traits

V – Master of Misdirection: Confusion you inflict lasts longer (33% increase). This further increases the power of Cry of Frustration first of all. Second with a condition staff mesmer your secondary set should be a scepter and torch. This trait and the minor trait that comes before it will make the confusion from both better. The block, confusion from confusion images and phantasmal mage are all great “oh $&!^” buttons to shut your opponent down for a bit while you heal up.

VII – Illusionary Elasticity: Bouncing attacks have one additional bounce. This is great for a staff wielder. I choose it instead of 5 extra points in Dueling to get Confusing Combatants. While this trait does not affect your clones you attack much faster than they do and the extra conditions or extra might/fury you stack with the extra bounce adds up fast. One subtle thing that most people wont think of is the extra bounce is also an extra chance for a critical hit which means and extra chance to gain vigor from Critical Infusion. Do not under-estimate the value in that.

Chaos

Minor Traits

5pt – Metaphysical Rejuvenation: Gain Regeneration when your health drops below the threshold (75%hp). This essentially increases your health by 1876. That is how much health you gain over the 14 1/2 seconds of Regen you get when more than 25% of your health has been taken away. Can’t beat that for a minor trait.

15pt – Illusionary Membrane: Gain Protection when you gain Regeneration. While this does have a 15 second cd you will get regen from Metaphysical Rejuvenation, Chaos Armor, and anytime you go invis (due to PU). This will very much help manage any ill-timed bursts that you don’t evade.

25pt – Chaotic Transferance: Gain Condition Damage based on your Toughness (10%). This is simply another great way to increase your condition damage.
Major Traits
V – Debilitating Dissipation: Clones apply a random condition to nearby foes when they are killed. It is a random choice of 3 stacks of bleed for 8 seconds (3,079 damage total) or 3 stacks of vulnerability for 8 seconds or 4 3/4 seconds of weakness. I think this will be the most popular choice for the adept major trait slot because it helps with condition stacking. However I do frequently switch to both Illusionary Defense for some extra tankyness or Master of Manipulation which stacks amazingly with Far-Reaching Manipulations. All 3 choices here are fine.

X – Chaotic Dampening: Increased toughness while wielding a staff of trident. Reduces recharge on staff and trident skills (+50 toughness). This is an obvious must. All your staff skills will be reduced. But what I notice most while actually using this trait is the shorter Phase Retreat CD. Phase retreat is your most all purpose skill. With this trait and Illusionists Celerity from Illusions Phase Retreat will have a ridiculously short cd. Phase Retreat can be used while healing, while pinned down, as clone creation, as kiting. Its wonderful. With both cd traits you have it at a 6 second cd.

XII – Prismatic Understanding: Cloaking skills last longer and you gain a random boon when you are cloaked. Adds 1 second to durations and choice of Aegis, Protection or Regeneration. You get 1 of those boons every second you are invis, so they add up. Not only do you get the full 300 toughness from the Chaos trait line by maxing it out but this trait is wonderful for a mesmer. I know there are a lot of thiefs out there who wine and moan about PU mesmers but they need to get over it. As an Illusionist you’d expect the mesmer to go invis. Rangers can invis which fits most lore for them as well in the fantasy world. PU mesmers are not cheese, not cheap. Guys its a Grandmaster trait, and you have to use certain weapons and/or several Utility Skill slots to take advantage of a trait you already invested 30 trait points to get. Its not OP. Its hard to get, but extremely useful. Bosses will drop target of you when you invis and you will stay invis longer allowing you to res someone, run around a corner for regen, cast a heal, or a multitude of other things. According to Mr Prometheus’ definition of the Mesmer this is a perfect trait for any mesmer.

Trait Choices, Options, and Reasons

Dueling

Minor Traits

5pt – Critical Infusion: Gain Vigor when delivering a critical hit.
With boon duration this gets you 7 1/4 seconds of Vigor and is on a 5 second cd. Vigor will be necessary to maintain your distance from your opponent and for clone creation (you create a clone on dodge). This will help ensure you always can have 3 staff clones out.

15pt – Sharper Images: Illusions inflict bleeding on critical hits.
Your staff clones’ attacks will inflict conditions naturally because it is Winds of Chaos. However with this trait when they crit they will inflict an additional stack of bleed. Great for any mesmer build, but wonderful for a condition heavy build. Many times your staff clones will inflict 2 stacks of bleed at a time.

25pt – Confusing Combatants: Your illusions cause confusion to foes around them when they are killed. 1 stack of confusion doesn’t sound like much but your clones will die quite frequently (and be immediately replaced by you) so the confusion amount you get from this will be small but semi-constant, punishing your opponent for everything they do; also it will stack nicely with debilitating dissipation. Also when you have to roll to avoid a big burst you well might destroy a clone by creating another one. When this happens your clone “dies” and your dissipation traits kick in. Again a multi-faceted action. You avoid damage and inflict conditions simultaneously. In spite of what a great trait this is I do not take it. It is however a perfectly viable trait for this build. Instead I use the extra 5 points in Illusions to get Illusionary Elasticity.

Major Traits

I – Far Reaching Manipulations: The range of your manipulation skills is increased. Blink is an extremely useful skill for any mesmer build that kites. Staff usage demands you avoid as much damage as you can while stacking as many conditions as you can. With this trait Blink has a range of 1200, allowing you to put some real distance between you and your foe. Try to blink so that your clones are between you and your opponent so that they absorb damage meant for you.

X – Deceptive Evasion: Create a clone at your current position when you dodge. This is a no-brainer. The more staff clones you got out the easier it is to hide and the more damage you will do (from the conditions) so being able to create more simply by rolling is awesome. Also this way if you evade when you have 3 clones out already one dies and a new one is created. When the one clone dies your dissipation traits kick in for some extra condition stacks.

III. Build: I call this the Maniac Magician.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgUQNAW7flknpUtNqxMNcrNiY6RwhcAHKFXX2VShtdhA-zQCBINCyk0Bi+AOHqIaslhFRjVdDTlSIVHLy+ACpkCYRlVA-e

I use this build in PvE, WvW, and sPvP. Every build has a hard counter that can wreck it in a duel. I want to stress that I play GW2 the way it was designed to be played: as a team. Solo roaming I think can be a lot of fun but is ultimately useless to spend lots of time on. Very little reward and no one to share your triumphs with. Not to mention this game is NOT BALANCED for 1vs1 PLAY making many of your wins silly to gloat over. So before all you yo-yo’s out there start wailing about how “anyone can just run from a staff build” remember that I expect anyone who’s seriously reading this to have teammates with them who can do hard damage burst to match your conditions and can CC while you have mobility; your teammates should balance out your weaknesses and you theirs. So here it is:

II. Staff requirements
Here I’d like to talk about some details of a staff-centric build – stats/mindset/etc

A) Patience. Gotta let your conditions do their job. Gotta let them build up in stacks. The staff can be a very high action weapon in a good fight, but the action is evasion and defense while the attacking happens almost by itself. This complete mindset change I think throws many mesmers off when trying the staff. You don’t make that change overnight. Blink, decoy, Prestige, and phase retreat are the main ways you will avoid damage, use your roll as sparingly as possible in order to always be able to up more staff clones. What you end up with is a set-up where the damage is almost fire and forget but the evasion (which is arguably a definitive measure of a player’s skill and effectiveness in GW2) is extremely multi-faceted and high-action. You will be one of the most mobile and hard to pin down opponents: 2 stun breaks, null field for condition removal (and boon removal of foe), 2 teleports (remember that phase retreat while not a stun break is instant cast and can be used when pinned down), and extremely high clone creation.

B) Stats. Because you need to take time to burn down your foe you need to survive. Toughness or vitality really helps, but mesmers do not have a tiny health pool so I prefer toughness. In addition Power is not helpful. I know this sounds like blasphemy but it is true. Power has very little to bring to a staff set-up. Precision on the other hand is extremely useful. You will need the vigor on critical hit trait, and you get lots of endurance for evasion and clone creation. Since staff cones are the most powerful clone and necessary for stacking your conditions you want 3 of them up as much as possible. Precision helps immeasurably. Condition damage is an obvious must, so with Precision and Condition Damage and Toughness Rabid gear naturally becomes the top (if not the only) choice for a staff-centric build. This seems limiting but the payoff is very worth it. The synergy is high: mobility, armor rating, and damage output are all taken care of in a fluid manner. When I say no power I very much mean it; I do not even put any points in Domination. I know the Blackwater build uses Rabid and has a staff. It focuses more on confusion than I do and puts points in domination. It is a great build and it got me using scepter torch as my secondary set. But unlike Natsu I focus on the Staff/Traveler rune side a bit more than the scepter/torch/Perplexity rune side. I use the scepter and torch and confusion and block and invis to put the fight on hold if I need to heal. I’ve got the highest respect for the Blackwater condition build, but I love staff and this thread is here to talk about a Staff-centric build.

C) Condition Duration. This is obviously not part of what the damage mesmers usually stack, and is important to note because it will take the place of things that many mesmers rely on and will not like to let go. Rare Veggie Pizza gives 40% condition duration, and the toxic crystal gives another 10%. Traveler’s Runes give 10% as well as the speed increase which helps in kiting. Over all a 60% duration increase allows you to stack your conditions much higher.

B. Too low damage. I hear it called not viable to PvE and to PvP/WvW because of its damage.

(1) Is a bit lower but also is ridiculously constant, so it puts great pressure on your opponents. With the right setup and skilled use your bleeds and burns alone will add up to more than 2.5k per second. Once you have nice stacks of conditions and have had time for some skills to cooldown you can F2 shatter for some good high confusion burst and immediately bust out 3 more clones so your conditions don’t really sag. This may not sound as impressive as warrior hits (which can be huge) or thief back-stabs but you have to keep in mind this is very constant. Most builds will have an ebb and flow that the opponent can take advantage of with well timed heals. Mesmer staff conditions are withering. 2k damage per second adds up fast, and with your conditions doing the damage for you you should have all the time and presence of mind to expertly dodge/teleport/mitigate their damage to nothing. And this is all from just the staff, you will have of course a second weapon set to take advantage of. I will cover that in another post. Here I just want to focus on the staff.

(2) Is lower but b/c in pvp players will dodge much of the high bursts of other weapons whilst your opponent cannot dodge all the winds of chaos the damage becomes much closer. There will be Winds of Chaos flying all over the place, bouncing from clone to ally to foe in any order. No one will be able to dodge them all. Another strength this poses is the continual re-application of your condi’s. Most people I think compare the staff condition durations to the 30 second poisons of some other classes and find it underwhelming. Thing is 30 seconds of poison can be removed. Your conditions will be constantly re-applying. This will frustrate and confuse many of your opponents as their condition removals will feel wasted. These two facts are SO important when you compare the damage output of the condition staff mesmer to a berzerker GS mesmer. People like to compare theory numbers, but you have got to use actual combat data as well to get the whole picture.

(3) Is a bit lower but EVERY SINGLE THING IT DOES IS MULTIFACETED. I want to stress yet again that everything you do has a dual nature. That is one of the reasons even berzerker mesmers don’t match the damage of a berzerker warrior – even GS mesmers to some degree have a duality to them. Mesmer is all about doing something good for your team and bad for the other. Staff skills exhibit this to a very high degree. Every time you do something you are adding a boon to you and a condition to foe. You teleport backwards and add a clone who both distracts and does damage. You cannot expect it to match the damage of GS when it does 2 things at once. Realize and take advantage of this.

I. dmg misconceptions
A. The so-called Utilities of the staff are not strong. I have two answers for that.

(1) I hear this alot and it is simply not true. After some questions I find the people who say this have only tried the staff for a short time. Guys nothing worthwhile in this game will come to you immediately. It takes practice and a completely different kind of skill. Do not listen to a GS or 1H sword Mesmer’s advice; he/she does not have the expertise to tell you how bad or good the staff is. It is a nuanced weapon. If you don’t use the nuance or haven’t learned what the nuances can do then it is simply lower damage than others. It takes a while to master. Much of the skill in GW2 revolves around avoiding dmg; dodging is the most obvious example. The staff gives you numerous tools to avoid dmg in addition to evading, many of which simultaneously punish your opponent. It has a bit of a higher learning curve and requires direct and immediate awareness of your situation. This is because everything on the staff is less offensive i.e. more reactionary. You use staff skills in response to something that was done to you. In this way it is very high action.

(2) Keep in mind this is a multipurpose tool for you and your TEAMMATES. You will be giving fury and might regularly to your allies simply from your auto attacks; this contributes to overall damage in a real and measurable way. Chaos Storm can help keep friends alive. When you have chaos storm around a downed player AND you pop chaos armor you can rez them through quite a beating. Everything it does is multi-faceted. Learn to take advantage of this. Options are the strength of the staff. GS builds often are accompanied by “skill rotation suggestions.” There should be no skill rotation past your initial set-up. From then on you act according to what is done to you. Because of the duality of what the staff does you will use the same skills for different reasons at different times. This is one of the reasons it synergizes with Mesmer so well (many of your other skills similarly have dual natures – Null Field for example).

First of all let me clear something up about damage in this game as a general rule. Just because it is the popular thing does not make it the BEST thing or the ONLY thing to do. If you want a short fight where either you die or the oppenent dies in a very short amount of time that’s wonderful and exciting and go you. However, as in most things there’s a skillful, cerebral, tactical, reactionary way to contrast with the brute way and still handle every situation in this game. You do NOT have to match someone’s max dmg output in order to compete. You do however have to avoid enough of their hits to bring their dmg down to a manageable lvl if you are going to have a lower dmg out put. It’s totally wacked and un-orthodox but for some reason what the staff lacks in high burst it regains in dmg reduction methods. Isn’t that just bonkers I have never been able to figure out why Anet did this? Alright sarcasm aside it’s very true. Now lets get back to the staff.

For a long time there have been a ton of negative things to say about the Mesmer Staff. I see this changing more and more (I think Natsu’s Blackwater build has helped much in this regard), but there are still a lot of nay-sayers and misconceptions about it. In addition the Mesmer Staff is used many times as an alternate not the primary. I’ve been using the staff since shortly after launch and have never found it boring, weak, or underwhelming. I’d like to talk in great detail on what makes the staff so good; I will discuss some common misconceptions and try to illuminate its virtues because I feel the staff goes well with the mesmer for many reasons.

I’ve never heard the Mesmer described better than Mr Prometheus in his Comprehensive Mesmer Guide p1: “From a design and flavor perspective the Mesmer is a Wizard that uses deception and chaos to gain advantage over their opponents. Much of the Mesmer’s gameplay is about distracting your opponents from attacking you directly and causing confusion and uncertainty.” The staff has so many utilities that do exactly this. It is the perfect weapon themed for the class. This does not mean everyone should salvage their GS’s and 1H swords, those are wonderful high burst weapons. But what they gain in damage they lose in nuance and complexity.
Mr Prometheus also says that the class is largely misunderstood. I think that while this has largely been corrected by time there is still too much about the staff that is either not known or judged incorrectly. Much of the player base’s learning and progress on mesmer builds are in the damage, phantasm, and shatter directions. All viable, all suitable to the class. But by no means more powerful or better in PvE, sPvP, or WvW.

At the end of the post I will give my build and detail it out for everyone. It is called the Maniac Magician. Lets talk about the staff.

Posting for a friend (Smashington.4309) whose account has been perma-banned and cannot post himself.

He submitted an appeal support ticket #369928. Received an answer stating his case required more investigation and was being escalating for further assistance. After several days of no further reply he submitted a second appeal support ticket #386569. He now understands this was not helpful, and apologizes but would very much like his case looked into.

The message he gets says it was banned “due to botting, extended un-attended play, using macros, or similar behavior.” I play with him often in the same room and he does none of these things it must be some mistake.

Thank you at ArenaNet for your time and your game.

I too would like to thank Kristen for keeping us posted. It must be rough to design changes and have so much negative feedback. It is unfortunate I agree with all the negative feedback (posted some my own self) but I think given time the kinks will be worked out and Kristen will give us some beautiful sets.

As players we should always be vocal about what displeases us, but we should also take every opportunity to thank the people who work to please us.

The first support ticket I submitted on this subject was answered with 1 line of totally meaningless text. I felt like leaving the game. I replied to it, and got a different person responding (GM Ginger) who actually sounded like she(?) has read my email. So thanks to her as well as Kristen Perry.

It is nice to know there are still people at Anet who care – certainly some people’s responses to the gamers are not nice or attentive.