Guild Wars 2

Mujen.5287:

Meadows.1659:

The reason for the traditional “end game” is to keep players playing it. It all boils down to money. The companies that make these games need to make money to keep making games (or tending to their current games). Without anythign to strive for at the so called “end” of a game (which in all honesty should be refered to has the beginning of the game) the game slowly fizzles and dies. Thats why noone has even came close to competeing with wow as far as subscribers and overall gross income.

In standard business you normally copy business plans that are succesful, not completely contradict them.

GW2 has some nice concepts but they were poorly executed. Its like you beat the game the day you bought it in a sense. You claim that endgame is map completion but thats kinda a** backwards because im already 50% complete by the time I hit 80.

Without and “endgame” and without appealing to the mass consumer base this game is on a road to failure like most other mmos.

You gave an explanation on why “endgame” exsists but you never actually answered what content you want added to you games experience? You should read my original post for what this discussion is actually about. Thank you!

Yes i must apologize as the convo got slightly off subject.

I would like to see lvl 80 only dungeons. more than one lvl 80 only dragon world boss. I believe all of them should have been 80 anyway.

More spvp modes such as ctf, sieges all balanced of course unlike wvwvw’s 100 against a few’s- odds.

Something to strive after more than just one weapon model. The legendaries are nice and all but after a few months many people are going to have all the same ones.

ituhata.6830:

Well the short answer would be no it wasnt because of that. 5 mans arent considered end game content anyway for arguements sake, but even so trade chat used to be exploding with lf groups before the dungeon finder. Also any person that plays wow knows that u might be looking at 30 min max for a que unless you play at like 3am. This thread isnt really about wows lfr or lfds system anyway. Its about gw2s endgame content. which is all but null and void.

You apparently weren’t paying attention to general, among the many complaints about tanks (and healers) fishing for nearly complete dungeons to get their badges, speed runners kicking anyone who wanted to do optional bosses, and general rudeness with the whole kicking system, one of the chief complaints has always been queue times for dps.

The point is, they needed those systems because the bulk of their players don’t care to deal with the BS that comes with being in a raiding guild for the sake of progression. They needed those systems because without them, most people wouldn’t bother exploring their content. That’s the truth of the matter.

No, this thread is not about the lfd/lfr problems though, however it is also not about your perceived lack of end game content, by which I am assuming you mean fanatical dungeon and raid grinding for shiny gear. This thread is about what we the players would like to see as “end game content”. As you can tell by the initial responses the general consensus seems to be that we don’t need carrot based progression.

Most people “wanted” to experience it. If they didnt want to bother with it, it never would have been implemented. People did want " end game". Thats why its there. The arguement was they didnt have time to raid not that they didnt want to bother with it.

There is no general consensus as of yet.

deriver.5381:

Well, if a lively playerbase is not enough metrics to define success, I’m curious to know what do you think would be

Continued developer support in the form of new content and items.

deriver.5381:

Meadows.1659:

Red Falcon.8257:

Meadows.1659:

The reason for the traditional “end game” is to keep players playing it. It all boils down to money. The companies that make these games need to make money to keep making games (or tending to their current games). Without anythign to strive for at the so called “end” of a game (which in all honesty should be refered to has the beginning of the game) the game slowly fizzles and dies. Thats why noone has even came close to competeing with wow as far as subscribers and overall gross income.

In standard business you normally copy business plans that are succesful, not completely contradict them.

GW2 has some nice concepts but they were poorly executed. Its like you beat the game the day you bought it in a sense. You claim that endgame is map completion but thats kinda a** backwards because im already 50% complete by the time I hit 80.

Without and “endgame” and without appealing to the mass consumer base this game is on a road to failure like most other mmos.

Then explain how GW1 has been going strong for 7 years without any power progression beyond lvl 20 / Droks gear.
All those tinfoil hat theories fall flat on their face when meeting reality.

GW2 is not required to lock players into itself being a B2P game.
It’s like saying Skyrim fails because there is nothing glueing you to the game forever and thus people won’t buy Dawnguard and further expansions.

I think people believe that since GW2 allows for multiplayer content like a MMO then it must face the issues that other MMOs meet – even though the game is still a B2P format and caters to a different audience than them – the classic B2P audience that completes a game and then waits for expansions to play again – or replay the game in different ways.

I’m just curious to see for how much time people is going to drag this misconception before they understand this.

Just because the game still exists doesnt mean that it is succesful. Most every mmo thats ever been made still has a player base of some type.

And also ask yourself this… Why hasnt there been any upgrades or expansions in the last 7 years? probably because it wasnt profitable enough to validate one i would assume.

You mean 5 years, right? EotN launched in 2007. And I can say that GW1 is pretty much full of people these days. Everytime I log, every social hub is crowded. Guess it says a lot for the longevity of that game, even without any gear treadmil and “end game”

I was just quoting red falcon as far as the timeline. And has ive already stated, every mmo ever made still has players. That doesnt mean it was succesful.

ituhata.6830:

Meadows.1659:

ituhata.6830:

Actually, Meadows, before WoW finally introduced LFD and LFR, only about 5% of you needed a purpose. Everyone else didn’t want to be bothered with it.

Actually before lfr and lfd the mass consumer base complained that they wanted a “taste” of the purpose as well but that the current “purpose” that was in game was too difficult for them. Thats why lfr and lfd was implemented in the first place.

Couldn’t be because people complained about not being able to find groups for dungeons because no one they knew wanted to do them, so they had to pool the resources for an entire battlegroup and even then queues sucked because no one wanted to tank and heal the same crap over and over. An entire battlegroup, takes dps players sometimes over 2 hours to find a group. Two hours to find 5 players. One tank. One healer. Really? I thought people wanted to run dungeons over and over in the name of end-game progression!

Well the short answer would be no it wasnt because of that. 5 mans arent considered end game content anyway for arguements sake, but even so trade chat used to be exploding with lf groups before the dungeon finder. Also any person that plays wow knows that u might be looking at 30 min max for a que unless you play at like 3am. This thread isnt really about wows lfr or lfds system anyway. Its about gw2s endgame content. which is all but null and void.

Red Falcon.8257:

Meadows.1659:

The reason for the traditional “end game” is to keep players playing it. It all boils down to money. The companies that make these games need to make money to keep making games (or tending to their current games). Without anythign to strive for at the so called “end” of a game (which in all honesty should be refered to has the beginning of the game) the game slowly fizzles and dies. Thats why noone has even came close to competeing with wow as far as subscribers and overall gross income.

In standard business you normally copy business plans that are succesful, not completely contradict them.

GW2 has some nice concepts but they were poorly executed. Its like you beat the game the day you bought it in a sense. You claim that endgame is map completion but thats kinda a** backwards because im already 50% complete by the time I hit 80.

Without and “endgame” and without appealing to the mass consumer base this game is on a road to failure like most other mmos.

Then explain how GW1 has been going strong for 7 years without any power progression beyond lvl 20 / Droks gear.
All those tinfoil hat theories fall flat on their face when meeting reality.

GW2 is not required to lock players into itself being a B2P game.
It’s like saying Skyrim fails because there is nothing glueing you to the game forever and thus people won’t buy Dawnguard and further expansions.

I think people believe that since GW2 allows for multiplayer content like a MMO then it must face the issues that other MMOs meet – even though the game is still a B2P format and caters to a different audience than them – the classic B2P audience that completes a game and then waits for expansions to play again – or replay the game in different ways.

I’m just curious to see for how much time people is going to drag this misconception before they understand this.

Just because the game still exists doesnt mean that it is succesful. Most every mmo thats ever been made still has a player base of some type.

And also ask yourself this… Why hasnt there been any upgrades or expansions in the last 7 years? probably because it wasnt profitable enough to validate one i would assume.

ituhata.6830:

Actually, Meadows, before WoW finally introduced LFD and LFR, only about 5% of you needed a purpose. Everyone else didn’t want to be bothered with it.

Actually before lfr and lfd the mass consumer base complained that they wanted a “taste” of the purpose as well but that the current “purpose” that was in game was too difficult for them. Thats why lfr and lfd was implemented in the first place.

Cailais.5180:

Meadows.1659:

The reason for the traditional “end game” is to keep players playing it. It all boils down to money. The companies that make these games need to make money to keep making games (or tending to their current games). Without anythign to strive for at the so called “end” of a game (which in all honesty should be refered to has the beginning of the game) the game slowly fizzles and dies. Thats why noone has even came close to competeing with wow as far as subscribers and overall gross income.

In standard business you normally copy business plans that are succesful, not completely contradict them.

GW2 has some nice concepts but they were poorly executed. Its like you beat the game the day you bought it in a sense. You claim that endgame is map completion but thats kinda a** backwards because im already 50% complete by the time I hit 80.

Without and “endgame” and without appealing to the mass consumer base this game is on a road to failure like most other mmos.

That philosophy works for subscription based MMOs, but falls flat on its face with GW2. ArenaNet don’t need their player base to play continously – just enough so that a % spend a little on vanity items at the gem store.

As soon as you see that you’ll appreciate that GW2 can’t ‘fail’ in the traditional MMO sense: AN have the revenue up front and provided they produce a enjoyable experience can be reasonably confident of future revenue from expansions.

C.

And honestly F2P is no different than a sub based game in terms of game design. Both hope to make money for a long period of time. Otherwise you would just make an offline game that you dont have to maintence regularly. The only difference is F2P is a marketing strategy that trys to hook the consumer by offering no monthly sub but at the price of requiring you to spend real money anyway to get vanity items and such. Either way your spending money so why not spend it on a game where you actually have a purpose for spending it rather than just running around looking at pretty places on maps.

Cailais.5180:

Meadows.1659:

The reason for the traditional “end game” is to keep players playing it. It all boils down to money. The companies that make these games need to make money to keep making games (or tending to their current games). Without anythign to strive for at the so called “end” of a game (which in all honesty should be refered to has the beginning of the game) the game slowly fizzles and dies. Thats why noone has even came close to competeing with wow as far as subscribers and overall gross income.

In standard business you normally copy business plans that are succesful, not completely contradict them.

GW2 has some nice concepts but they were poorly executed. Its like you beat the game the day you bought it in a sense. You claim that endgame is map completion but thats kinda a** backwards because im already 50% complete by the time I hit 80.

Without and “endgame” and without appealing to the mass consumer base this game is on a road to failure like most other mmos.

That philosophy works for subscription based MMOs, but falls flat on its face with GW2. ArenaNet don’t need their player base to play continously – just enough so that a % spend a little on vanity items at the gem store.

As soon as you see that you’ll appreciate that GW2 can’t ‘fail’ in the traditional MMO sense: AN have the revenue up front and provided they produce a enjoyable experience can be reasonably confident of future revenue from expansions.

C.

In order for that small percentage of players to “want” to but those gems they are going to “need” a reason for them in the first place. Vanity items cannot sustain a substantial income regardless of what anyone says. There will not be enough profit made to validate an expansion of any type. People need a purpose.

The reason for the traditional “end game” is to keep players playing it. It all boils down to money. The companies that make these games need to make money to keep making games (or tending to their current games). Without anythign to strive for at the so called “end” of a game (which in all honesty should be refered to has the beginning of the game) the game slowly fizzles and dies. Thats why noone has even came close to competeing with wow as far as subscribers and overall gross income.

In standard business you normally copy business plans that are succesful, not completely contradict them.

GW2 has some nice concepts but they were poorly executed. Its like you beat the game the day you bought it in a sense. You claim that endgame is map completion but thats kinda a** backwards because im already 50% complete by the time I hit 80.

Without and “endgame” and without appealing to the mass consumer base this game is on a road to failure like most other mmos.

Size, whether too big or too small, is in the eye of the beholder. Personally I like to look more bada** then realistic when fighting 6 story tall dragons and such.

My definition of a raid isnt something i can complete in 5-10 minutes nor one shot them the first time i do them. These get old and boring after about the 3rd time you have done them.

I guess that would depend on your definition of perfectly fine.

Stack as much vitality and toughness as possible, spec into vitality and toughness as much as possible, get gear with as much vitality and toughness as possible. Pray you dont get one or two shot.

Only select traits that are damage reduction. Dealing damage traits and skills are pretty pointless seeing as youll be spending most of your time running back from the repair anvil. Pray you still dont get one or two shot.This goes for every single profession.

Get a ranged weapon. Lead every pull with this.

Get a defensive weapon for your second weapon. Something that can block damage preferably for when you randomly get aggro. Your not going to be able to prepare for aggro or judge when its about to happen so you have to have a reactive ability. Pray you dont get one or two shot.

On trash pulls stay as far away as possible and use your ranged attacks. If you unluckily get aggro and luckily dont get one or two shot try to kite as much as possible. Let someone else shoot first and keep your fingers crossed that somehow you dont get aggro or randomly one shot from some move that you were supposed to see the animation for when all of your groups aoe and spells are engulfing the mob.

On Boss pulls stay as far away as possible and use your ranged attacks. If you unluckily get aggro and luckily dont get one or two shot try to kite as much as possible. Let someone else shoot first and keep your fingers crossed that somehow you dont get aggro or randomly one shot from some move that you were supposed to see the animation for when all of your groups aoe and spells are engulfing the boss.

There are a few variations of this but most encounters stick to this program.

Have fun learning your new dungeons!

I find it amusing that in a game full of dragons and mythological creatures your arguements are " they seem more realistic small". /facepalm

I agree totally. Most greatswords are twice the size of hammers. It’s not a matter of size = damage. It’s size = visually satisfying. And hammers just look like a slightly larger 1 hander on your back.

There really seemed to be no rhyme or reason to when I did or did not take a ton of damage other than just luck. Maybe if there was someway for me to tell when the boss was about to target me with something i could better manage the cds to make it more affective but sometimes its really hard to see a boss just “rearing his sword back” when u have 5 peoples aoes going off all around him. Alot of stuff still was just insta cast heavy damage.

So another aspect I began considering was my damage output it this spec, basically it was terrible, The biggest number i would see might have been 300. And in a way damage output is a form of damage reduction in a sense. The faster the boss dies, means the less time he is alive which means the less damage he can pump out to us as a group. So I began contemplating how to pump out more damage while still being able to mitigate damage for myself and my team.
I looked at sword/shield which increases my dps through bleeds , and i still got to keep my personal block but i only had one stun to help with my teams damage reduction. Then I looked at the Hammer which pumps out some pretty nice numbers( at least it feels like it does since i have no way to run any meters in this game currently) 3 stuns and a knockback( which could be considered a stun in a sense) and a fumble condition. The choice seemed like hammer was the winner since I couldnt really control when the block of the shield was going to be effective or wasted.
So this is my current spec. I’m Hammer/Rifle still specced into tactics, defense and heading into the strength tree so that i can get the +vitality soon from great fortitude.
Still geared for vitality, toughness.
I plan on trying a power/precision gearing coupled with the defense/tactics build later today with the hammer.

All in all dungeons feel a mess in my opinion. Random damage and no way to hold aggro effectively means you have to make a decision between doing crappy damage and staying alive longer, or doing nice damage and dieing more often. Both of which would probably even out in overall damage done in the end.
So i guess the real question is do you want to save money on repair bills and solo slow as a snail or do u want to spend more “money” and solo faster.
Does this “vibe” continue to endgame? Is there ever a point where a dps or “tanky” spec would outwiegh one or the other? Any opinions or comments would be greatly appreciated.

So I decided on my next run to try the exact opposite. I re-traited myself full tactics and defense. Geared myself totally for toughness and vitality( again that includes accessories and all). I thought to myself that since there is no healers or tanks persay that the only way i could reduce me and my parties damage intake would be through stuns, knockbacks and blocks(blocks being mostly for personal reduction) I studied the weapons for a min and realized that mace/shield would be best for this. Mace mainhand gives one block with a retaliation when struck and a daze. The Burst skill is also a stun. The shield gives a nice block of course plus another stun. All in all thats 3 stuns and 2 Blocks. That being chained should make for some nice damage reduction with all my toughness and vitality to boot. My traits i decided were going to be endure pain for those moments when all of my blocks were on cd, defense banner because i figured that increasing my groups toughness and vitality wouldnt be a bad thing, and dolyak signet for the reduced incoming damage.

Also some info i have left out is my heal skill is Mending for the dual condition removal and my elite skill is the werewolf norn racial. I got a thing for werewolves ok
The werewolf allows me to buff the party and heal myself in an all in one shout, it gives me a pounce-stun, and a fear which is pretty nice in trash. And I still love rifle for the single target dps as its SOOO much easier to take less damage at range. Bosses that knockback smash on melee so if i notice a boss is doing it alot i just avoid my tanking altogether and stay at range.

That being said that run seemed to be a bit better as far as damage intake. The problem though lies in aggro or threat as some would call it. There would be times where i would have aggro and iniate my block only to have the mob aggro someone else at that moment so that i would totally waste it. And there would also be other times where I would have definate aggro and i would lay into almost every cd I had back to back only to die just has fast as if I still had the Greatsword signet spec. Also soloing in this spec SUCKED. It seemed forever to kill mobs

So I just completed about 6 runs of AC story mode and just wanted to share some opinions and get some feedback.
First of all my goal in this post is to find a good mesh of a pve soloing and dungeon running spec. Throughout the runs I have tried multiple specs/weapon setups/traits.

The initial run was using my soloing spec I have been using since i began playing. It is a Greatsword/Rifle Signet spec. With my extra points in Defense because i felt the plus’ to toughness and healing outwieghed the one defensive plus in tactics (vitality). I was geared for precision for the most part, and by geared i mean all amulets, accessories, rings and any gems i had were precision or a combo of power and precision. Soloing has been no problem with this spec
So during the run things just felt chaotic. I would come in with my normal swing of things(greatsword isnt that complicated) and it would feel like i would randomly get knocked down or almost one shot from some random move that i didnt even know was being cast on me until the damage was done.
I have no problem dodging out of aoes you can see on the ground. Seeing a little red circle isnt that hard to counter. The problem laid in moves that just randomly came at me unexpectedly. Knockbacks coupled with stuns seemed to be the worst. Some knockbacks would leave me laying facedown in the dirt for 3-4 seconds. I guess I am trying to say I just felt " Squishy". I seemed to die alot. like at least once every other trash pull and 2-3 times per boss. That doesnt mean i died every boss, The wolf dude nante or w/e seems to never kill me. These numbers are just an average because the lover fight i make up for it lol.

Sure Footed doesnt change Endure Pain. According to sure footed’s tooltip it should increase stance durations by 25% which would push the 5 second Endure Pain to around 6 seconds. Which it doesnt.