Guild Wars 2

Aleaf.8174:

Mhyrria.4160:

Aleaf.8174:

Merthax.5172:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Let’s say I invite a friend to play GW2 with me. How long should it take them to start a new character, get to maximum level, and get max stat gear? What is a realistic amount of time where they have “earned” it?

This is a game, which I play it for fun. Once it has devolved into work, I know it’s time to move on to something else. If it’s work, I want to get paid for it.

This is an RPG. RPGs are known to have some form of work to show off an achievement. This “work” is often called a grind. It’s the genre.

No. Ever played Baldur’s Gate or Icewind Dale or any classic Black Isle games? Probably not. Those are RPGs and THEY NEVER MADE YOU GRIND. The best gears come from exploring, understanding the lore and dialogues, and killing a very hard boss. A boss that even if you grind (which is close to impossible since most dungeons dont respawn enemies), you are not gonna be able to kill it unless you use your brain. So, again, NO. The pinnacle of the RPG world are held by games without grind. The only work you do is working your brain to come up with a strategy to defeat bosses.

Did you ever have to level up for a certain boss to ensure you wont die? Ever need to completely search a dungeon from corner to corner to make sure you didn’t miss anything? Every kill a few mobs out of the way for that extra gold?

Congratulations, you’ve found the grind. Of course, in single player games you don’t need to implement a large grind (or time sink) since they have your money already.

No, I did not need to level up to kill a certain boss. The bosses are well placed in the story that when you meet them, your level was sufficient. Except for hidden bosses, that lore states are very powerful, and common sense dictates you cannot beat it unless you are at max level.

So fully exploring dungeons are a grind now huh?

Mobs barely drop gold, or anything for that matter. You kill them because sooner or later when a strong enemy appears, chances are that those mobs are gonna make the battle harder.

You havent played the games I mention, clearly. And yet you assume that those games have the grind.

To the OP:

Working hard does not mean you are getting a reward. How many hard workers are there in this world and are still hard workers till they retire, but cannot afford their dream luxuries? It is not about working hard, but working smart. Time and effort pale in comparison to grabbing opportunities and taking risks. And those people who work smart and grab opportunities, they are your bosses.

IRL, that same gear treadmill exist from online games. Most people grind through their jobs to get the paycheck and repeat the same cycle though most of the time, reward does not scale up but the grind does. It is a sad reality, but it is what it is. Video games are entertainment where you can escape this harsh reality, but sadly you get thrown right back in.

Memnoch.2589:

^ As I said..pretty much rewards that really are worthless and doesn’t increase your power whatsoever. Here’s an example how I see it:

Brian “Hey man! Look at my new mask, what do you think?”
Jason “Not bad, what do does it do? and how long did it take to get it?”
Brian “..Well It took me a few days and it looks awesome!”
Jason “Right..but what type of benefit does it give you? Does it increase the power of your character in any way at all?”
Brian “Well it doesn’t do anything for me at all, it’s just for cosmetic purposes, but it does look good..”
Jason “So let me get this straight, you spent a few days working on getting an item that does absolutely nothing for you at all besides making you look different?”
Brian “Yeah..I guess I did.”

See the problem? Maybe you like working for useless items but I sure don’t.

Brian “Hey man! Look at my new mask, what do you think?”
Jason “Not bad, what do does it do? and how long did it take to get it?”
Brian “..Well It took me a few days and it looks awesome!”
Jason “Right..but what type of benefit does it give you? Does it increase the power of your character in any way at all?”
Brian “Well, it gives me uber power and to further show how much I am good gamer since I can grind for more hours than most people. And with this, I will grind for another item for the same exact reason”
Jason “So let me get this straight, you spent a few days grinding for an item that feeds your e-pen and makes you stronger so you can repeat the cycle again”
Brian “Yeah..I guess I did.”

Fixed it for you.

Aleaf.8174:

Merthax.5172:

Casca Longinus.3168:

once again, you want the reward without the work

Let’s say I invite a friend to play GW2 with me. How long should it take them to start a new character, get to maximum level, and get max stat gear? What is a realistic amount of time where they have “earned” it?

This is a game, which I play it for fun. Once it has devolved into work, I know it’s time to move on to something else. If it’s work, I want to get paid for it.

This is an RPG. RPGs are known to have some form of work to show off an achievement. This “work” is often called a grind. It’s the genre.

No. Ever played Baldur’s Gate or Icewind Dale or any classic Black Isle games? Probably not. Those are RPGs and THEY NEVER MADE YOU GRIND. The best gears come from exploring, understanding the lore and dialogues, and killing a very hard boss. A boss that even if you grind (which is close to impossible since most dungeons dont respawn enemies), you are not gonna be able to kill it unless you use your brain. So, again, NO. The pinnacle of the RPG world are held by games without grind. The only work you do is working your brain to come up with a strategy to defeat bosses.

Guys, we already know money intimidated the head (blingg vs noll). That they were exploited by an external attacker, Nexon (buy 4373). And they are under new management, that new nexon monetizing kitten.

The devs did not want these changes, us arguing and discussing about these mean squat. They already know all our issues, it is just they cannot do anything about it with Nexon breathing down their necks. They already told us through these easter eggs what really happened. When something like Nexon gets involved in a little company like Anet, they are forced to follow. It is a job at the end of the day, and they have families to feed. Let’s respect and understand what happened for the devs’ sake. And just hope when this patch crashes NCsoft’s stock even more, Nexon would back away and wash their hands and GW2 will be back to how it should have been.

Osprey.6587:

Wilky.7521:

Eveningstar.6940:

I wish I knew. I logged in earlier today and all ~40 players that constitute my friend list and follower list were offline. That’s the first time I’ve seen that on a weekend; it’s pretty discouraging, especially as I’m on Tarnished Coast.

Almost my entire guild has quit over this patch. We were all excited for and paid for something different, I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the case with other groups as well. It’s a bummer. “Where is every1?” — Off playing other games. LoL, WoW, Rift, etc.

World of Tanks here

Ditto. I miss driving my Luchs. Lol. That game had better horizontal progression that this current update, but it’s a different genre. I logged in yesterday and surprise to find that the people currently hanging out and procrastinating in LA were gone.

Sion.1653:

The OP nails it on the head. This is precisely what is happening and what has already happened and what’s going to happen if Anet doesn’t turn around now.

They won’t. They already had a set of plans to follow, adding more powerful infusions. Nexon saw it fit to make a cash cow out of the GW2, which is, imho given a few more months, could be sit side by side with WoW. With the lack of bug fixes to a whole lot of things, you can pretty much tell that they spent their resources on this update. There’s no way in hell that executives would retract this.

I hope the devs start another company, we will be sure to follow it. Nexon is BS as BS could possibly get. I hope in ends well for all the people that created GW1 and 2.

Ballistic.4531:

ASB.4295:

A golem named BUY-4373, an NPC named Subdirector Blingg, and a jumping puzzle named Under New Management.

I’m sorry, but those references are too coincidental to just be funny. Thanks for letting us now, ANet.

Oh my… Guess I shouldn’t hold my breath then…

And now we know. NCsoft kittened the hell out of Anet.. sigh

Corvindi.5734:

I would definitely have quit over a sub tacked onto a game where players can buy game currency with real money, actually. I don’t know how many others would do the same, but I do think it’s way too late to go to a sub model.

They could change the TP. The gems were originally for maintaining income, but with subscriptions, then gems would be redundant.

Just started downloading updates for LoL and other PC games I missed out whilst playing GW2. I did not even know there was Dark Souls version for PC, gonna buy it later today. And all because of this kittening patch. I would have stayed for years, for as long as this game stuck to their core designs, but alas.. They wanted to have a slice of the WoW pie. It pissed me off days ago, but now it is nothing more than a sigh..

And I simply still cannot fathom why such a poor decision was implemented. If they needed money, they could have just asked for subscription. I very well know that most of us would gladly pay monthly for this game. Then that would entitle us to faster patches for fixes and content. We would have understood, and they would have the needed support. But this…. sigh just a mere sigh indeed.

Feedback:

Betraying their loyal fan base in favor of the mmo content locust. A very unnecessary upgrade in gear tier that bridges no gap whatsover in the first place. For what it’s worth, I wish Anet the best of luck with their changes to gw2. My time spent on gw1 and gw2 was priceless. I hate leaving the game, but I simply do not want to play another gear grind mmo.

They won’t be rolling back the changes implemented. Some people already have ascended gears, and those are the people important to Anet.

Columba.9730:

Pino.5209:

MistaMike.7356:

Pino.5209:

MistaMike.7356:

I really don’t understand what the big deal is? They’re giving us more game to play, what’s wrong with that? If you hate progressing your character then why don’t you just sit at level 1?

You people complain about anything. If Anet bumped max level up to 85, you’d complain then too about “hey you said no grind!” Seriously they’re giving us new content, totally for free, and you complain? What the hell is wrong with you.

Have a look @ GW2 manifesto, the core principle of the game. We bought the game for what it was.
Aanet is putting in a content that is a complete 180 degree backflip from their original design of the game.
Free, yah. But it’s a whole different game now, ala World of Warcraft alike.
If u liked grinding ala WoW, why on earth were you playing GW2 (referring to prepatch)?

But the entire game is a progression of your character. You climb 80 levels then work on maxing slots and legendaries. Did you seriously think Anet was just gonna leave it at that and let the game end after that? What developer would put millions of dollars into building an MMO and then not expand it? What do you have against them adding new stuff anyway? Haven’t you seen all the old content yet?

No it’s not about progression. I got to 80, luv exploring and leveling, took me 3 weeks to get there. And then i had fun doing dungeons with my guildies. Hunting for skin. It’s not about progression, it was about “FUN”.
Come again.

Some of us don’t consider this fun, yet we have to do it to be competitive.

There was 0 grind needed to be competitive in GW1. ZERO. Just planning and practice.

NaughtyProwler.8653:

Soooooooooo, who wants to guess when the manifesto gets removed? My guess is around Christmas holidays.

Let’s screenie the manifesto. I am pretty sure when the event is over, they will subtly changed it.

AzureNightmare.3914:

So just what /will/ you do if this really is the end of it? No, I’m not looking for “Oh well that’s never gonna happen this is a guaranteed 101% trend now no turning back blahblahblah” I’m honestly just curious- what will you do if this is a legitimately one-time-only tier upgrade and everything was just more content instead of tiers and they just want to add something new to the game?

They never said they wont release another tier. I think it was posted on reddit or guru, i cant remember. But even if they did say they won’t, it would prolly fall on deaf ears thanks to this current fiasco.

And this is basically the thing here, our broken trust. How can we go back playing, even if this just a legitimately one-time tier upgrade, knowing that Anet had already pulled something like this? We can’t. Trust is earned, Anet earned in GW1 but now I don’t think they are gonna earn it back anytime soon.

Edit: With regards to Osprey’s post, whether it’s tiers on gears or through upgrades, they are still tiers. Making the “current tier” more powerful is no different than having newer more powerful tier. Blizzard simply sugar-coated and marketed it well.

Nerth.3940:

CJAncients.6907:

Now that the treadmill locusts got what they asked for, people are moving on to demand the holy trinity.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Against-De-promoting-Holy-Trinity

I called it in this thread yesterday. People are so predictable. If anyone knows about an MMO with vertical progression please PM me.

I’m looking for a new game to play.

And Anet will prolly do it in next 3 months maybe. They need to, there is already a gear threadmill via Ascended and Infusions. They need to stick to ye old formula to cater to the “dedicated customers”. But they won’t explicitly bring back the holy trinity, they will prolly pull the same ninja backstab like this. And of course, the lovely PR campaign.

http://i50.tinypic.com/fxro5.png

A blue infusion, although only +5 vit, it is still a stat gain. And it’s only blue, they send they will be adding more with higher rarity. And this thread is not about the imbalance, it is about adding a vertical progression. 3% more or 10% or whatever, it is still vertical progression.

Punk.4072:

I think its an awesome idea, Gear upgrade really motivates players to keep playing to achieve a better equipment, and besides we’ll have more end-game content to focus in.
i hope every BIG patch, they introduce new gear quality aswell as Max Level increased and new skills.

For QQ’ers : – Remenber Legendary weapons are stronger than Exotics, So stop QQ.

Did any of you guys read this? Wow, just wow.. And these are the type of people Anet wants to cater. Punk guy, Legendaries are not stronger than Exotics. Go back to your panda please

EverythingXen.1835:

Pochibella.8394:

EverythingXen.1835:

8% is not significant.

How about if your boss offered you an 8% raise? I, for one, would love it! You know why? 8% is not insignificant.

Nice job you have there. 8% more money wouldnt change a single facet of my everyday life.

An 8% increase in stats isnt going to make a significant difference in GW2 either.

I am pretty sure you dont work or have income, allowance is not income. 1% increase on you bank savings interest is already a big deal. 1% more interest to your loan is a big deal. 1% increase in salary is a bit small but it still adds up. Make those changes 8% and that is already more than significant.

No point arguing about this, I am pretty sure he will be one of the 1st ones to grind more for that 8% in GW2

Eladriel.7295:

Kimyrielle.3826:

Ditton.3149:

I think they should just scrap the entire thing, this whole thread is nothing but depressing and vitriolic.

Pulling the patch for now would be THE best solution at this time, but this would require ANet admitting that they majorly messed this up. Publically admitting to have been wrong takes a lot of guts and is something the vast majority of all humans seems to be unable to do, so I am not holding my breath.

But yes – delay the patch, remove Ascended gear from it entirely (and bury the idea forever!), work out new rewards for the new dungeon and then release when it’s ready. That would be the best. Right now we’re facing the danger of them releasing the patch with a system even ANet seems to have realized is a bad idea, only to have it somehow remedied later (making Ascended gear available outsides hardcore content, as their latest posting seems to indicate they would do) with a flawed result that would make nobody at all happy (hardcore players wouldn’t get their beloved gear treadmill and casual players would still have to deal with Exotics being rendered obsolete with all negative consequences thereof).

Why must you assume if Anet pulled the patch they are admitting of doing something wrong? I don’t see that they have done anything wrong.. You scream for challenging content, you get it then you complain about it, you get another set of armor to make you look cool you complain about it… That is what I see. If they pull the patch maybe they will be pulling it because there are too many ingrates on this forum. I haven’t seen so many ungrateful people in my life as I have on this forum. You know what happens to ungratful children? Well things get taken away and you don’t get anything else.. These people worked their butts off to give you content and challenging at that and you people just totally bash them to no end. Pathetic!!

Only those viral MMO swarms were screaming for challenging content. The “no end game content” whines that flood forums. And besides, a challenging content DOES NOT MEAN a gear treadmill has to be imposed. What is actually pathetic is calling gear grinding to be the challenging content. Psssh

Baladir.2736:

Greep.6394:

Baladir.2736:

lmfo. All this thread does is show that people dont’, can’t read.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/leah-rivera-on-the-new-fractals-of-the-mist-dungeon/

We don’t need to use the new gear to run the dungeon. If we run it over and over and over, it will get harder. After some point, it gets so hard that you need the new gear to offset how hard it gets. By that time, people would have gotton the drops they needed. When a group runs it, it will never run harder than that highest difficulty level of a player has successfullly attained.

This only affects people who grind. Everyone else can do all the same content many many times at increasing difficulty. I don’t see the problem.

I can read fine, but you can’t. You do know they said they’re bringing ascended to WvW right? That’s my and many other’s reasons for quitting now.

The stats are virtually the same as any other exotic. There is no measureable difference to be seen in game, maybe a few percent. So someones crit will hit for 1030 instead of 1000 for a player with exotics. Whoopee! lol.

10 people critting for 300 more damage, 100 people critting for 3000 more damage. Whoopee indeed right?

I bought the game right at the moment pre-purchased opened. I bought a laptop before the headstart so that I can play GW2 while still working (i have a business 120km away from my home). I cant play often, and Im pretty sure MUCH of the population cant as well. I havent gotten all my needed exotics yet. And I am not rushing, I play the game on my pace knowing that it follows the same non-geargrind-based gameplay as GW1. But then this comes out, what for?

DId you, Anet, even bothered to check your database for number of people with Legendaries against people with exotics. Then compare those numbers again with people that are still using rares and masterworks despite being lv80. I am pretty much sure, majority of the playerbase doesnt have full exotics gear yet. And then you plan to introduce a higher tier.. If that will be the case, then what is stopping you now from doing this every update? You listened to those people who rushed the game to get their “best in slot” gears and cry out to you for lack of content. These are the same people that mob every new major MMO that comes out, repeating the same viral pattern. And you gave in to them. Tsk.