What you guys are really missing is the fact back then no one really knew what they were doing, i.e. the flame engineer and sloppy large fights.
Now, the builds/gear really tight and the groups skill level is high. Thats why fights dont drag on that much, because commanders know what classes they need to use to hit hard.
Oh so so naive. It’s cute really.
True…
I find it hilarious when people try to act like they’re better than the real competition that has already left. It’s like calling Newton stupid because we learn what he discovered at university today.. they don’t understand the concept of innovation. The metabattle.com heroes of today wouldn’t stand a chance against the guilds this game once had.
We are better. It’s not a question of inherent talent. It’s merely a question of having a larger history to draw upon. Newton wasn’t stupid but of course today’s physicists know more about physics than he did. How could it be otherwise. As did he, we may say we stand on the shoulders of giants but nevertheless, there we are seeing farther than them.
Ask yourself this question: are you a better player now than you were when you first started? How is this possible? Were you dumber then?
[TLBN] was awesome to work with doing some sneaky small ops stuff in JQBL last night. Didn’t know of any Afghani guilds until I met them. Welcome to SOR guys.
Congrats SoR on reaching 355PPT. The score is indicative of the imbalance that is occurring, and We can kiss our previous balance good bye. There is no yin or yang. I hope EU guilds on EU servers would join BG and JQ to right the imbalance that is occuring and help fight the empire.
In the meantime, JQ and BG, keep fighting….“For Freeedoooom”.
- BG Citizen
Yeah right, the Beast has to devour more Guilds to stay healthy.
A Guild per day, keeps tears away.
SOR
Lose 1 week, need to stack more
Hahah ikr… SoR won 5 straight weeks against Blackgate then lose once so they decide to recruit 2 more guilds and stack their EU to imbalance the server matchup -_-
I really hope JQ gets an EU guild.
Yeah SoR is up 4k on a Monday afternoon. Efforts to achieve this kind of domination are unethical and sad.
As a NA player, I was rooting for TW to at least win some rounds. although it didn’t happen, I thought TW fought valiantly (/respect). Be that as it may, the response above speaks bluntly to the reality: EU GvG is more competitive than NA. And that probably will translate to the WvW battlefield.
in NA, most (all) GvG guilds are awful at WvW combat in the open field. that’s why they started GvGing.
RG is definitely good at both, and are one of the few that can actually claim this. the rest are just shameful.
Are you in the alternate dimension or am I? O.o
I’m absolutely stunned how people think GvG translates into WvW combat in the open field. They are two totally different beasts.
And one of them is a trivial sideshow. Even if we did equate GvG with open field WvW it still ignores everything else. WvW is about outscoring your opponent by controlling a map. I personally wouldn’t want to waste much time practicing what amounts to multi-group SPvP.
What I have seen from IRON, they are able to cover 2-3 maps with 20-25 people. I played at lunch the other day in JQ BL. We had out-maned buff. As soon as our keep got hit from a large force of 25+, IRON ported in and defended. The enemy was wiped, they ported to another map and we had out-manned buff again. They really don’t have that many. They are super organized and have fast reaction time. I think the other servers just need to adapt to their play style. Defend what you have and take stuff in other maps that is not defended.
The old days of taking everything on a map then moving to another map isn’t going to work with IRON.
Are you even in IRON? Or even a major commander during the EU time slot??
Iron fields like 20-30 players and map hops…. from BL to BL.. not per map, maybe it looks like that to yiou becasue they are constantly hoping from map to map but in reality its more like 20-30 players And besides the IRON guys theres not a lot of others on except pugs. Its IRON + PUGs and Randoms. True story that all.
Wrong. I’ve run with IRON. They are never less than 80 strong per map on at least three maps at once with at least one 15 man havoc squad on the other. They are a server unto themselves. They’re also all at least 8’ tall and shoot lightening bolts out of their kitten
Way to early to be claiming a victory. Tuesday – Thursday are the slow days for SoR.
After a few days of every match, participation is affected by the score. However, this is the first time SoR has been in this position in at this point in a Tier 1 match. Don’t expect the same participation or lack thereof.
It’s very close to being over. BG must do something drastic in the next 24 hours. HoD once overcame a 30k deficit in one day because of their extreme coverage advantages. No one has an advantage like that anymore.
according to thieves your issues are all because you need to L2P.
This is always the case when you have an absurdly imbalanced and beneficially bugged PvP class. It will attract imbeciles who think they’re good players and everyone else isn’t.
This is a case of Tier 1 entitlement. Even after JQ “stacked” their server SoS was still stronger than every other server after JQ. Ah but once you get a taste of T1 victory, that isn’t good enough. The prospect of eventually dropping a tier and no doubt achieving victory there just doesn’t seem that enticing. Does Amarathy think MERC would lose all their gains after they log off in a Tier 2 match in the same fashion that they do against JQ? Of course not. Sure these guilds were having fun in T4/T3 a few months ago but the thought of moving backwards and having fights just as good as those old ones? Sorry, they crave the limelight now.
Revenge of the Henge! My first home and will always hold a place in my heart. Thought I would never leave the server but couldn’t take the glacier-like pace at which glicko was putting us where we belonged so I bolted. I’ll always have my eyes on HoD, cheering you onward and upward. I could see myself transferring back one day.
For the last two weeks now, WvW for our server has been a losing battle. The score tonight was literally 360,000 to 2,000. What happened? How do you get a dead WvWvW server to come back to life?
What happened to Henge was the result of the reciprocal relationship between free and fast server transfers with Glicko 2 ratings updated weekly. One allows for rapid changes in strength while the other accounts for them slowly. Within one week, HoD probably fell about 3 tiers but they stayed in tier one for an additional week. This demoralizes and bores players more and then more leave. With every match they are in an inappropriate tier and more players lose patience and leave, thereby extending the time it will take for them to be ranked properly . The death spiral is still in effect and watching the rankings try to catch up to what’s happening there is a comical indictment of how horribly thought out the entire system was.
The ranking system and the transfer ability are separate things. You are correct that the ranking system cannot accurately make good matchups with transfers, but it isnt there to do that.
The effectiveness of the ranking system is proportional to its ability to reflect actual server strength. If transfers render it incapable of genuinely reflecting this reality then they are not “separate.” Ending transfers is fine. But barring that, the ranking system, which essentially entails weekly rankings according to Glicko 2, is not sufficient. Something must change. If its transfers fine. If they won’t budge on transfers, then they have to change the ranking system which they can do by simply updating them more frequently to keep up with rapid changes i.e. shorten the matches. Given any part to the equation as a constant, some other part must change to bring things back into line.
It comes down to one of two things: lessen the fluidity of populations or increase the frequency with which populations are tracked.
This is a distinction without a difference. If the system can not account for what is easily predictable player behavior then the system is flawed. You don’t allow player transfers at this rate and then grumble when players actually do it because it makes your “system” useless. It’s willful ignorance.
WvW is all about population and 24h coverage.
It is funny to see some people claimed that their pro guild/alliance is the reason their server won.Of course i wont deny that, a big alliance is like magnet that attract lots of smaller guild and people to join the server and therefore give the server a huge population increased( and of course organized guild>pugs), but you gotta give your server’s militia some credits.
Without the noobs/zergs/karma train, you think your elite guild mates are going to win the 24h match?
If so, why not try this on HOD now instead of transferring to another huge population and good WvW server like SBI?
Too good at this game?Tired of winning?
Seeking for challenge?
Then why not stay on HOD? We are pretty much outnumbered like 10 to 1 everywhere and the queue time is instant on every map, aren’t this what you pros want?
Seriously though, why don’t you guys just admit it that you guys couldn’t afford to lose?
It is no shame to say that, really.
The problem isn’t the drop in strength. The problem are matches that do not reflect this drop in strength. Those in HoD might very well be happy in tier 4 but it will take you a couple of weeks to get there. In the mean time, there’s actually a decent chance you will be fighting JQ again! That is what makes things so comical. If your current match reflected where you obviously were at the end of the last match, you might stand a decent chance and then guilds like ND or whatever other TA is left there might be willing to rebuild. That the rankings and matches based on them are so slow to react to the very quick changes that can occur due to transfers just makes people want to leave even more. Asking people to stick around and be bored for weeks just doesn’t work. It’s not about losing. It’s about boredom.
Ok. Someone is tired of losing.
Let us address this point at a time.
1. It is not meant to be balanced. It is meant to be casual war based pvp.
2. Supply. Defend your caravans. Defend your camps. Not their problem.
3. Upgrades. Refer to supply.
4. Orbs. Ill give you that one. Orbs need to change a bit.
5. Loss of moral. Really?!?! How is this unbalance. You are losing your audience sir.
6. Blueprints. You can buy em. Since you all quit with no moral. Go farm instead of licking your wounds in LA. Rewards go to winners.
7. Fighting for second place. Again, This falls under player actions and is therefore not balance.
Fare thee well sir. You have proven no credibility.
I’ve been on HoD since launch and he’s right. Please spare me any nonsense about being tired of losing. HoD has experienced more wins than any server to date. And since the week matches began, I’ve been completely bored for the last half of every one of them whether we won or lost.
we also need official server specific forums that would help grow our server communities.
True
But free tansfers need to stay because server populations aren’t spread out enough. ANET just needs to increase the wait time to transfer servers. Say once every 2 weeks instead of it being instant.
That would be a start. But even it we assume transfers will lead to a better “spread” among the servers, the problem is that the match system as it stand is not able to keep up with how frequently servers are shifting in power. HoD had such a huge glicko rating it will take two weeks for it to be bumped out of tier 1 despite the fact that it clearly hasn’t had tier 1 strength for over a week.
Waiting for whatever balance or other features (guesting) they are hoping for currently means being very bored in WvW until that happens, if it ever does.
Hey don’t worry. People will leave soon. But even if they makes you a tier 2 server you will still get to face tier 1 competition because your ranking is so high it’ll take a while before you get appropriately matched. Enjoy.
Better to accept the fact that some servers will always be bigger, over populated…. and some servers will always be the step child like Devona’s Rest (my server) and others.
This misses the point. No one believes the goal must be for all servers to be roughly equal to each other. You only play two other servers at a time. The goal need only be for each match to be equal enough for the match to not be over after playing only 20% of it. But we are so far from that it’s absurd.
Again, you don’t get that this isn’t about WvW but guesting. If they disable free server transfers now you won’t be able to play with friends on different servers, something that was promised as one of the main features of the game. The only reason you can transfer for free right now is that this feature doesn’t work, as soon as they get it working server transfers will cost gems.
How hard is it for a friend to find out where you play and start their game there? This is a lame reason and not worth the frustration of WvW right now.
no dedication. no growing together. no retention. spying. guilds leaving, new ones coming in.
when will you stop free transfers? currently, servers cannot grow as communities because people keep flaking and moving around everywhere en masse. keeping the free transfers for so long makes no sense, unless im missing something. people have settled with their friends, it’s time to start building communities.
And combined with weekly matches that can not keep up with the transfer zergs, you get matches that don’t even come close to reflecting reality. HoD is Tier 3 more than likely it was obvious to anyone in that match by the middle of last week. And yet Anet’s lovely match system pits them against their old nemesis again.
With free and easy transfers, server strength is shifting around like crazy. It’s happening too fast for weekly rankings to keep up with and all but a couple of matches are over by Sunday. Anet, do you want you players to sit through these dull matches for months before, according to you, things are finally sufficiently balanced? I’ll put aside whether that will ever happen but at least refresh things enough to keep people interested consistently.
Kind of off topic but all the rants and posts saying JQ is the new HoD based on mass player influx and such… BS. I have not had a queue in 4 days on WvWvW at any time, peak or off outside of EB. HoD just lost the zerg alliance and suddenly JQ is the new fad? Doesn’t work that way. We have had 3 days of “Outmanned” buff while being in first with all 3 orbs. Claiming we are the new zerg as an excuse to feel better about your servers slip into 2nd is just sad.
It does work that way. You’re just confused about how it works. When HoD had matches sewn up after three days, their queues went way down too. I don’t ever remember thinking that this meant we weren’t winning because we had such large around the clock numbers just because we didn’t when the match was effectively over. In the one day matches or during the first few days of the few week-long matches, the queues got longer and longer.
The worst part is, if TA was still around (or at least transfers were locked so the bandwagon couldn’t jump ship), the JQ / HoD battles would have been epic and close week after week, with the winner up in the air depending on how SBI / ET played.
Now? HoD was the only thing JQ was gunning for, and it didn’t get the match it wanted, but now it has the coverage and coordination to take down the beast (if it still existed). Who’s going to fill the gap? SBI and ET, with (maybe) HoD or (dwayna forbid) IoJ popping up into tier 1 every other week.
The beast is dead, and there’s nothing that can even touch the new one. My forecast calls for week after week of JQ landslide victories in tier 1, and it’ll last until the majority of JQ quits without being replaced, one of HoD / SBI / ET / IoJ / whoever manages to get a similar level of coverage to challenge JQ, with the third server teaming up against JQ to fell that beast, or Anet steps up with drastic changes to WvW.
I’m not usually a betting person, but I highly doubt this week was just a “fluke”
SBI is no joke. I think they were a little demoralized when HoD came back against them a couple of weeks ago but a full throttle SBI is not to be trifled with. JQ is not ready to be as dominant as HoD was. Not yet.
Anet, it’s not working. The notion that it would help achieve initial balancing is being proven absolutely wrong. The stratification of server activity has not been lessened in any appreciable way. The best that can be said is that allowing continuous flow from and to all servers is that it allows the possibility that servers may change their place within the strata but the overall stratification remains. Take Tier 1. You might say free transfers helped bring HoD back to the pack but if it also allows JQ to take it’s place as a queue-heavy monster, what has changed?
And even if it did work it does so at the expense of community. For strong communities to develop their must be a certain level of stability and allowing populations to shift in such large ways is anything but stable. Difficult to maintain a tight-knit community when you either continually lose players within it or continually gain new ones.
JQ here. ET is zerging our garrison @green borderland. Outer and Inner gates are down… Why would an ally do that ?!?!?
Because they weren’t an ally. They were just a server with a significant enough portion of its population who were not indifferent as to which server after themselves won the match. That’s all it takes for for such things to be reflected in the score.
Let’s assume a match between servers A, B and C takes place. We will stipulate only one possible variation in this match: that either ALL of server C doesn’t care which of A or B wins or that 20% of server C does. Let’s assume that in the latter case, that 20% would prefer server B win if C cannot.
Between this two scenarios, in which case will sever A have he hardest time winning assuming everything else is equal? Note that in both cases there will be plenty of fights between C and B.
Define killing HoD and JQ? No more 2-5 hour queues? Not quite as untouchable to the peasant servers? The goal of the open transfers is to lessen the disparity between the top servers and the rest and to decrease the queues on said top servers.
You really don’t seem to be aware of what’s happening. Free transfers aren’t eliminating imbalances. It’s creating them. The best you can say about it is that the imbalances are possibly always shifting but there will always be imbalances. HoD had no queues for the at first, then 8 hour ones, now very small ones. JQ had small ones now very large ones. Who is going to (re)start their WvW adventures on Kainang? It’s a very rare organized guild who will want that task. They may not want to deal with queues in tier one but how about tier two or three? And in the meantime server stability and community are disrupted. It’s not worth it. Let people choose when they create their characters and give low pop servers some kind of exp boost if you like but just letting people transfer at random is creating chaos.
There are some reports of a large guild on ET (ahem) breaking into an HoD keep, destroying all the siege, then standing in the tunnel and doing nothing while JQ later broke through another gate and took it. No attempt made on the inner gate. Now, there is no alliance necessary for that to occur. All it takes is one very large guild with the knowledge that it can not win a match and the desire to ensure another server loses it.
Why is HoD winning? I thought they couldn’t outscore their opponents until their nigh cappers went into high gear Monday morning? You mean the peak-time crew won the first night? Hrm.
HoD was getting owned and in a DISTANT thrid place for basically 3 days. SBI had the lead and extended that lead for all of those 3 days.
Then miraculously on Sunday night HoD suddenly takes over the whole world. Funny how that happened. SBI went from having queues on every map just about for 55 hours or so to having instant access to any map they wanted.
People can talk about double teaming or ganging up or any sort of nonsense theywant to. Point is when SBI had numbers close to what the other servers had it wasnt even a contest.
I have a friend who plays on SBI. I’m on HoD. I watched him play for several hours Saturday. SBI’s two front war was nothing compared to HoD’s. Maybe you’d need to have Ruin on your tail as much as we did for the first two days to appreciate that. Of course you call it “nonsense” because you’d like to think that the first few days tells you that SBI is just that much better than the rest when at peak time. All servers fight two servers but there is a spectrum of focus that any one server receives from the other two and as we approach one end of that spectrum things become MUCH more difficult for the one server. It’s supposed to work this way. There is nothing unfair about it. But if we are assessing a server’s strength via points, we can’t ignore it either.
