This seems to be a remnant of before they added the reveal debuff. You’d think the people in charge of making the class would have gone “duh,” and removed it when reveal was added. Instead, it makes speccing into the Shadow Arts line a much more painful experience.
Someone offered me 300 gems to convince the OP that the guy offered 200 gems to convince the OP that the OP is wasting his time is lying.
Just like you said, they’re all trolls and this is a troll thread. Threads like this should be closed. We welcome anyone and everyone to our server and we need more NA prime time players, especially of you can play Fri-Sun. Don’t let silly threads like these scare you off!!
I am from Blackgate and don’t listen to these guys. We love transfers and we need more. PLEASE if you are a prime time NA player transfer to our server. Queues are never longer than 7 minutes on Friday nights for EB and we are welcoming and will buy transfers food and sharpening stones for WvW.
We got a few no name guilds from some server called HoD and another one called ET. Those servers are getting crushed by us right now. These guys probably transferred off this week after they saw our true power.
Again, please, we NEED you to transfer to us, especially if you are an NA prime time player.
Disagree,
Winning=more bases=greater dispersion of forces
When we are too outnumbered on night shift, commonly we focus on taking the orb and defending one base. Orbs are working as intended.To give handicap, a better solution is allowing players with the outmanned buff to carry 30 supply.
On a side note : The only thing stopping small skilled groups from taking down zergs is the speed of which they can combat ressurect.
Sadly, it doesn’t work like that. In the real world, it would, but in WvW capturing more bases after a certain point actually ends up concentrating your forces as you push towards the enemy spawn. Your forces don’t end up being “dispersed,” and if the enemy tries to take a tower deep in your territory they won’t be able to hold it since they will be unable to get supply there. So basically, they have to push you on your front line – which unlike the real world, doesn’t expand as you gain territory.
As for the second part, not only does the speed of combat resurrection help zergs, but also the AOE limit of 5 targets and the downed state in general. The game mechanics here make zerging very rewarding.
Not going to happen. Nature of the beast. Thieves need to be weened off hitting for 30K in three seconds and being perma stealthed. They are well on the way to ruining WVW. Its like a drug for baddies that play thieves.
I’m totally fine with removing burst builds and things like perma-stealth that are lame. If we do that though, the Anet should really remove the downed state. Its intended purpose was to counter the burst builds, if they don’t exist, there is no reason it should either.
Also, I just wanted to point out that there isn’t really a way for thieves to hit for 30k in 3 seconds and remain perma stealthed. If somehow a thief has built all glass cannon and is permastealthing (tends to require smokescreen and cluster bomb, shadow refuge as well if you want to hit the 25s cap), they shouldn’t be hard to deal with. Glass cannon thieves die to AOE’s like no other. It’s likely that the thief in the video has a fairly tanky 0/30/30/10/0 spec or something of the like, probably with somewhat tanky gear. I do agree that stealth holding points needs to be dealt with, though. Just allowing you to not cap a point from capping in stealth would be a simple solution.
(edited by MrPicklez.6473)
It kind of scares me to know that people have commander with <1000 objectives captured and <4000 WvW kills. I don’t even play all that much, and when I do I’m never in the big fights (always duoing camps or five manning towers); yet, I’ve managed to accumulate higher WvW stats.
This is a prime example to look at. This was the closest matchup so far. Just glance at the SS and who has what orbs and how many in each one.
The orbs made no difference in this match whatsoever
And it made no difference because the ranking system worked this week for these 3 servers.
Cant get matchups right across the board with transfersAgain I’m not against some change to the orbs but we are looking at mass changes to servers strength week by week. Almost having a FoTM servers, right now its 5 servers who knows next week it could be a new 5 and the matchup will be lopsided again
I agree with you on this. I was actually playing in that matchup, it was the most fun I’ve had in this game to date. Part of what made it fun was that it was so even – every server was great at retaking their borderlands and maintaining orb control. The populations were pretty even, and all around it was just a complete blast. You’re totally right, brackets really need balancing and we won’t see that until the transfers are addressed.
However, one of the things you need to notice about that matchup is that none of the servers ever held a commanding lead. No one ever really swept all of the maps and held all three orbs. No server was every demoralized or fighting against horrid odds. That is part of what made this matchup so incredible. I’m not saying getting rid of the orbs or switching it with the outmanned buff or anything well really fix the problem, at least not with the transfers still in place. I’m just saying, it’s a start, and really needs to be addressed.
If there was a way to play that match over and over and over for the rest of the life of GW2, I’d do it in a heartbeat. Sadly, when you look at the matchups now, they’re back to transfers and snowballing. While that was a great match, it was the one gem in a pile of kitten crap. When you have to pick through a pile of bad matchups to find the one good one, you know it’s a problem.
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For a supply camp? If anything that means the zergs are punishing each other. I’m okay with this. This game needs to be weened off of zerging, it’s like a drug.
First off talking about 30% and 300 stat isn’t relevant in any circumstance because it will never happen in any course of time that anyone would even realize it
Anyway I personally do not care at all if the 2 losing servers don’t get it through their head that they need to attack the 1st sever and take control of the orbs.
That is a player/server/commander issue on said servers.
I’ve seen the first point happen numerous times. You hold all three orbs, or the enemy holds all three orbs, and then an off-peak team manages to take all three in the course of twelve hours. Sure, it’s technically the players’ faults for not defending the orbs, but sometimes it just isn’t feasible. I could care less about off-peak stuff, I’m just saying that such stat fluctuations shouldn’t occur at all, let alone over the course of twelve hours.
Also, you’re right, that is at the root, a player issue. Unfortunately, it’s much harder to change the player base than to change the game. The problem is that these issues make it unfun for EVERYONE involved in these landslide victories.
You’re never going to convince the player base to log in and fight when they’re down by 100k points and it’s +600/x/x in favor of a winning team with three orbs. Is it easy to say “well just log in and try, that’ll fix it,” sure, it is. But in practice, that will NEVER happen. So do you want to be stuck in a game with perpetual landslide victories where there is no PvP, or do you want to give the losing team some more incentive to come out and play, so that everyone can get some more PvP?
What it boils down to is this: Do you really feel so strongly about not giving boosts and incentives to the losing teams, in a gamemode that is inherently unbalanced due to population discrepencies, that you’re willing to let WvW devolve into one-sided, uncompetitive spawn camping matches? Because personally, I just want to get some good open-field PvP in. I could care less if I’m on the winning or losing side, but the way it is there is a lack of good PvP in these landslide matches, and to say otherwise is deceitful.
(edited by MrPicklez.6473)
Anything to punish zergs. If griefing makes people split off in to smaller groups, please, grief the zergs more.
@Eisenhart: I think you probably dont know the situation I talk about. Yeah if your numbers are equall or there is not that big difference what you wrote is write. But if you are against some1 that has 2x or more numbers then you, they can easilly afford to play with you while others revive the fallen.
And that group would mow through the smaller one, reviving or not.
Time and time again it’s been shown in many MMO’s that superior organization can overcome numbers. While it’s still possible in GW2, the downed state makes this much more difficult in WvW. Is that really the direction we want to be taking semi-competitive play?
Anyway, that’s how I interpreted what he was saying.
there are 3 teams not 2
its a 1:1:1
orbs work fine and cause no issues at all
they promote the weaker 2 teams to attack the stronger team
Please tell me this is some form of sarcasm. Can you show me an NA matchup where this is actually working as intented? The only one that I could possibly think of is Kaineng and (possibly) the NSP matchup. Sadly, transfers have screwed these matchups up so badly that it’s hard to even tell.
you have played on every server have you? wow your pro
it working as intended on every server who dose not have idiots as Commanders
if you go for the stronger server on your matchup and ignore the weaker sever they are almost never going to even attempt to attack you
the stronger server is going to be the 1 with the orb
No, I haven’t actually played on every server. I’m not really sure if I should even bother responding to this. While what you’re saying sounds great in theory, it’s much less cut and dry in practice. One of the reasons for this is because organizing two servers to compete against the winning side is quite difficult. It’s actually easier to take towers and supply camps from the other server that is already “down.”
Additionally, the week matchups and scoring system really make it difficult to form alliances to take on the stronger server. The matches are dynamic, and what do you do if one of the two “underdog” servers gets on top? Do you instantly call off the truce and slaughter each other? In DAOC, you knew who the strongest server was. If you didn’t work to change things, you were stuck in your matchup for eternity. Things were enver going to change unless you did ti yourself. In WvW, if you simply wait a week, the change will be made for you. Simply put, it isn’t worth the effort for a lot of people in WvW to form these alliances, especially with the free server transfers. Is this a people problem? Perhaps, but what do you think is easier to change, the free transfer and orb snowballing systems, or changing the mindset of every player that logs in to play a video game?
there are 3 teams not 2
its a 1:1:1
orbs work fine and cause no issues at all
they promote the weaker 2 teams to attack the stronger team
Please tell me this is some form of sarcasm. Can you show me an NA matchup where this is actually working as intented? The only one that I could possibly think of is Kaineng and (possibly) the NSP matchup. Sadly, transfers have screwed these matchups up so badly that it’s hard to even tell.
(edited by MrPicklez.6473)
Downstate is just silly, but it’s the least of this game’s problems. If they don’t fix (or even comment on cough) all of the other issues in WvW, this game is destined for failure. Just look at all of the current match scores. Do you really think any open world PvPers will continue for long at this rate?
I understand what you’re saying. I agree with it, and you’re correct. The maximum possible stat difference at any time is 150 with a 15% difference. I’m just saying that when you look at it relative to the enemy, the difference between owning 3 orbs and them owning three orbs is 300 stats and 30% health.
Basically, we’re arguing about the same concept but on seperate premises. I’m comparing having 3 orbs to the enemy having 3 orbs, which technically isn’t possible at any given time, but it does reveal the magnitude of the orbs stat bonuses.
Regardless, what I’m trying to say is that I loved relics in DAOC, but orbs just didnt’ mimic it well. There were many factors in DAOC that aren’t in play in WvW. I could care less about whether a server is winning or losing, I just want good large scale PvP. It doesn’t have to balanced, but it has to exist. And as things currently stand, judging by the rankings, there is no happy medium. There are no matchups that even remotely resemble fun, large scale pvp.
No, i’ll have to repeat myself but
“There is no inherent disadvantage of not owning all three orbs”If im playing against an enemy with all three orbs im at 100% of my health and stats.
Im not weaker, im just not stronger than normal.What you did was:
interpreting zero orbs as default strength
(ok so far)
“+0 stats, +0% health compared to enemy”interpreting three orbs as improved strength
(still ok)
“+150 stats, +15% health compared to enemy”interpreting three orbs as default strength
not having three orbs as weaker than default strength
(conflicts with your first two statements)
“-150 stats, -15% health compared to enemy”
Let me explain this. You have three orbs.
+150 stats compared to enemy, +15% health compared to enemy.
Enemy has three orbs.
-150 stats compared to enemy, -15% health compared to enemy
+150 stats +15% health
-(-150 stats – 15% health)
300 stats 30% health difference total
That is not to say that compared to the enemy at ANY GIVEN TIME you are at more than a 15% health and 150 stat disadvantage or advantage. That is saying that COMPARATIVELY, the difference between you owning three orbs and the enemy owning three orbs (note that BOTH cannot happen at the same time) is 30% health and 300 stats. I don’t understand how else to explain this to you.
Yes, the maximum stat difference at any given moment is 15% health and 150 stats. Yet, from the maximum possible stat difference from you owning three orbs to the enemy owning three orbs is 30% health and 300 stats.
(edited by MrPicklez.6473)
^ I don’t think you understand what I mean. The difference in stats between the enemy owning three orbs, and you owning three orbs, is 30% health and 300 stats. What I mean by this, is that when you’re playing vs an enemy with 3 orbs, you are basically at -15% health and -150 stats. Obviously, your character isn’t, but that’s what the handicap is against you. When you have 3 orbs you are up 15% health and up 150% stats. While the difference between the stats of the enemy character and your own will never be less than 15% health and 150 stats, the total difference between owning three orbs and the enemy owning three orbs amounts to 30% health and 300 stats.
If you can’t tell by going to http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA none of the matchups are exactly going too well, from a fun/competitive perspective. My two main issues with this are as follows:
1.) Orbs
2.) Conquering entire maps doesn’t spread your forces, it in fact concentrates them.
As for the first issue, it’s been said time and time again, so I’ll just discuss it briefly. The total difference between having three orbs, and your enemy having three orbs, is 30% health and 300 to each stat. What I mean by that is this…
+150 stats, +15% health compared to enemy (you own 3 orbs)
+0 stats, +0% health compared to enemy (you each own one/no orbs)
-150 stats, -15% health compared to enemy (enemy owns 3 orbs)
So while it may in essence only be a 150 stat and 15% health discrepency (still huge) between your enemy, the difference between having three orbs and an enemy realm having three orbs totals DOUBLE that. Also, unlike DAOC, the guards don’t get weaker as you own more of the map. There’s more, but that’s probably enough to touch on orbs for now. Basically, they simply aren’t the relics of DAOC, and that’s okay, but they’re hurting WvW.
2.) What I mean by the second issue, is that when you actually sweep and conquer the entire map, you end up fighting at spawns and defending the one or two areas that are being attacked. It is much easier to respond to any sieges on a keep/tower/garrison, since as soon as everyone sees it’s being attacked the winning server swarms in. If you decide to split your forces and push behind enemy lines, the problem that arises is a.) you get murdered by numbers and b.) you take a tower or such behind enemy lines, and have NO way to defend it once it’s taken. You have no supply, etc, so taking a tower in an enemy stronghold really doesn’t benefit your realm for very long.
What theoretically should hapkitten that when you conquer more land, you’re forced to spread your forces thin and defend all of the points, but it really just doesn’t work like that when spread over four maps with two enemy spawn points. Plus, with the one week matches, servers simply won’t put in the effort to team up vs the stronger opponent like they did in DAOC. In DAOC you knew if you didn’t work with the other weak enemy things would NEVER get better for your realm. Here, people just wait a week and it’s a fresh slate.
TL;DR: If you really care, read the entire thing. Basically, orbs are a +30% health and +300 stat difference in total, and way to strong. Already known. The other problem is that taking the entire map concentrates your forces where the enemy is trying to fight back, and makes it hard to come back from a sweep. If you try to spread your forces to take multiple points, the zerg rolls your squads taking towers/garrisons and even if you take a garrison behind enemy lines, you have no supply or way to defend it. It really doesn’t do much. Obviously there are many other problems, like server xfers and morale issues due to weekly resets, but that’s just what I wanted to throw out there.
(edited by MrPicklez.6473)
The orbs are completely broken. If you go from owning three orbs, to fighting a server with three orbs, that results in a stat difference of 300 to every stat and 30% total hp. Either way, it’s jusy silly. They’re too strong, and numbers are already a huge advantage in this game.
THIS ISN’T DARK AGE OF CAMELOT. Sorry, Arenanet, you didn’t manage to recreate that game. That isn’t a bad thing, but just admit you were wrong in trying to replicate relics and do away with them already.
Boy, I’m sure glad to see those 24 hour placement matches combined with the glicko rating system and free transfers have allowed the servers to reach a state of equilibrium in their rankings.
They should balance it by removing all of the obnoxious anti-stomp abilities. Have three buttons in the downed state:
1. Throw dung or rocks at the enemy.
2. Heal yourself utilizing the techniques you learned watching Bear Grylls.
3. End your misery.
When I created this thread I wasn’t talking at all about the balance within the downed state. I could care less about who has the best or worst skills. I play a thief, so technically I have the “best” skills. That being said, I still think the downed state is a load of garbage. It isn’t fun, and it adds nothing to the game. In fact, it really damages WvW by making zerging more powerful, and hurts sPvP as well.
Sigh, agreed 100%. I was looking for a balanced matchup so that I could transfer to one of the servers (xferred last week to enjoy the Yak’s Bend/Sanctum of Rall/NSP matchup that ended with <2% score difference).
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA
A quick glance over that matchups show that basically NONE of them are close. You’re killing your own game. I don’t want to win by 100k points, I don’t want to lose by 100k points, I just want to be in a freaking matchup where people are out fighting and having fun. Get rid of your stupid orbs (sorry, you failed to emulate relics), end free server transfers, and do SOMETHING to enforce server balancing. The player base WILL NOT balance the servers themselves. Look at Jade Quarry xfers, look at SoS xfers. Now look at GoM and Dragonbrand, and now ET. Hah, great job.
Until this is fixed, I guess I’ll be one of the few that transfers to the balanced match (if there are any) instead of the completely one-sided match. I play this game for the PvP, not to win some meaningless matchup. Might as well abuse server xfers for my own enjoyment while I still can.
It really is sad that the most players will come the forums and cry about a mechanic before taking the time to try and make the best of it. I’m just glad anet is a company that doesn’t listen to all you crybabies.
I’m a thief. I do make the best of it. In fact, I get the best of both worlds. Not only do we have probably the best downed state abilities, but we can also stealth stomp, which makes killing downed players much more manageable.
Still, I don’t understand you feel this contributes at all to the skill cap in PvP. It’s obvious you don’t have much of an understanding of how the downed state compounds the power of numbers. No one with a brain is going to stand in your AOE and try to rezz their allies, but those four players could easily turn around, destroy you, and rally their buddy.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. Perhaps the downed state is here to stay in PvP, but it’s an awful mechanic that promotes zerging in WvW and makes fighting outnumbered (even 2v1 in sPvP) much more difficult than it inherently would be. Honestly, I really don’t get enjoyment out of flinging poo at people once I’m downed, nor do I get enjoyment out of being a pain and using my skills to prevent stomps. Sure, it can send me into a fit of laughter when a daggerstorming thief kills a doe and rallies me mid fight, but in all honesty it’s just very gimmicky. The amount of annoyance of having enemies rally when you’re already outnumbered far outweighs the enjoyment you get from rallying off of a vet guard or an ally stomp.
Basically what I’m trying to say is that the downed state doesn’t really add anything “fun” to PvP, besides tipping the odds in favor of numbers and gimmicks (cough vet guard rallies). I can see why this would be an interesting mechanic in PvE, but it’s really just damaging PvP. I’m not sure how a mechanic like this could ever be associated with “competitive” PvP. It’s certainly not that I can’t learn to live with it, I can; however, that doesn’t change the fact that overall it’s detrimental to the PvP scene, in particular WvW more than sPvP.
Good teamwork, but sadly the orb buff and obvious massive points lead (robust) really kills it. I run duo with a guard and it’s quite easy to take out 6+ people that are unorganized, simply because thief/guard synergize extremely well. Between stealth and stability stomps, it makes fighting outnumbered much more manageable. Disorganized players tend to not know how to respond to small groups that decide to turn and fight, as is evidenced by them focusing the guard (???) instead of your thief, as well as the fact that they could have easily survived if those people stopped to quick-res the downed player before you stomped him.
Use of shadow refuge to rezz allies was nice, though. Most uninformed players will keep attacking once you put down shadow refuge, which reveals them and lets the stomp land. Good to see the people you play with on vent are smarter than that =P
I completely agree that supply camps should be able to be taken by small groups. Or two small groups if it is fully upgraded. The problem is that they’re literally soloable. An upgraded supply camp can be easily soloed by a level 80 in exotics employing the right strategy. It would also help if camp aggro wasn’t broken, so that all of the NPCs would attack even when pulled away, but that still doesn’t solve the issue, as I’m able to dive a camp and take it without too much trouble.
I suppose I shouldn’t be complaining, as I’m benefitting from this, I just see it as a bit of a problem. And no, you can’t defend a supply camp if a group of 2-3 80’s in exotics dive it without you noticing them come in. They will have capped it before you get there, even if you notice the white swords the instant it is being attacked. So I guess waht I’m saying is that I agree, small groups should have something to do in WvW, but I still feel that upgrades are underwhelming, and that it should take 5 people to cap a supply camp, not one guy.
I’m not sure how, but upgrades need to be altered some way in WvW. As it currently stands, there is almost no point in spending 45 silver (I believe that’s the price) to fully upgrade a supply camp. As a level 80 in exotics, I can easily solo any supply camp that doesn’t have the tier 2 upgrades. I can easily trio the supply camps that do. One might say that the enemy should be defending the supply camps, but with how quickittenhey go down it’s simply impossible to respond before they are capped.
I’m not sure how I feel about keep and castle upgrades, these seem fairly reasonable, as they can be difficult to capture. However, tower upgrades are in the same boat. There is really no point in spending upwards of 1.5g to fully upgrade a tower. They’re too easily taken, especially in “off-prime” hours. One five man group with a superior ram can take a fully upgraded tower in <5 minutes if defense doesn’t show up. The investment really just doesn’t seem to be worth the reward.
My suggestion is one of two things – DRASTICALLY reduce the cost of supply camp upgrades, and also reduce the cost of supply camp upgrades, or at the very least, make it so that if you upgrade a supply camp/tower, if it changes hands and you recap it, the upgrades cost 1/3 to 1/2 as much, but still require full supply.
Another possible suggestion would be to simply buff the upgrades. I really feel that supply camps are too easy to take. It’s all I do – run around solo or with an 80 guard friend and take every supply camp on the map. With the 80 guard we can cap the camp in <1 minute. It’s silly. The enemy has no time to respond and now their supplies have been cut by one or two people. It really should take at least two groups to take a FULLY UPGRADED supply camp. Three level 80’s taking a 45s upgraded supply camp is just silly, and makes the upgrades pointless. Personally, I feel that unupgraded supply camps should receive a buff as well, but that’s just me. Towers should probably be buffed a bit as well when upgraded, or their upgrades seriously buffed to make them a threat to two or three groups.
Anyway, I just think that it’s currently very unrewarding to upgrade supply camps or towers. The only supply camp that even makes sense to upgrade is the northernmost one on your borderlands, and perhaps the one between Dreadfall/tower or Hills/tower etc, but to be honest it really isn’t worth it here.
(edited by MrPicklez.6473)
I see the same picture four times. There is a reason you are the only one QQing about this. If you’ve pushed them that close to their base, maybe they should have an unfair advantage.
Edit: I mean come on, you even own the North supply camp – and you’re crying about the enemy having an advantage over you at one little spot?
As a fellow thief, I’m going to tell you a secret. If you can’t kill someone trying to 1v1 you before they make it back into their invuln zone, you’re bad. Perhaps if you are destroying the enemy team that badly and everyone is running back into base, you shouldn’t be using shadow refuge. Take haste or immobilize venom. Also, if they’re running, have you even considered a dagger for backstab? How about stealth + shortbow for the immobilize shot? A haste + PW combo would work as well, though. Overall, you just sound like a bad player. You shouldn’t feel good about killing someone 1v1 as a thief; you should, however, feel bad about not killing someone 1v1 as a thief.
P.S. Switch servers to one that isn’t so boring if this bothers you so much.
(edited by MrPicklez.6473)
There are plenty of other skills that can affects more then 5 people. Like I said before, it’s primarily damaging and healing skills that are only limited. Mostly everything else has no cap. A skill cannot be broken just because it can affect more then 5 people unless there is a serious issue that is only possible because the skill affects more then 5 people.
There is nothing broken about portal outside of the culling issue. Seriously, name one thing, especially one because it affects more then 5 people.
What skills are you talking about? I know that for thieves my area stealth skills only work on five people. I only play my guard in sPvP, but I’m pretty sure all of the boon skills also only work on five people. Combo blast finishers only affect five people (ie area stealth, area might) per hit. So, sure, give all of these unlimited targets and it sounds even. Nothing like a nice 23 second zerg stealth with cluster bomb and smokescreen to get people crying for a nerf on unlimited target spells.
Sanctum of Rall vs Northern Shiverpeaks vs Yak's Bend - WvWvW 10/5/12
in WvW
Posted by: MrPicklez.6473
Transferred to SoR because I was sick of either winning by a landslide or losing by a huge margin. Can’t say I’ve regretted it even for a second. Best PvP I’ve had since GW2 release. These three servers are extremely evenly matched, I hope ANet sees that THIS is what players enjoy. Honestly, this bracket should just be locked. All three servers are on equal footing and the epic fights are bound to continue all week.
I didn’t really see anyone brag (except for Kaide, the transfer) when we were winning. I think the majority on Dragonbrand were excited to have a very competitive match with both BG and FA, and if I can’t speak for my server in this regard, I can certainly speak for myself. I have no qualms with losing, I play WvW because I find it enjoyable, not because I feel the need to win. That being said, win or lose, I do really enjoy a competitive match – and that’s what I felt this match was for the first four days of the rotation. It was a blast to have Blackgate lead at the beginning, then have DB pull ahead for a little and have BG right on our heels, ready to overtake us at a moments notice.
And overtake us they did, BG has won the matchup fair and square, that I cannot deny. I just wish that the end of the match was as competitive as the beginning. It’s rather obvious that the deciding factor in the match was the transfer of a strong off-peak force onto the BG server, that doesn’t at all detract from your win, but to ignore that fact is a bit silly.
Anyway, I had a blast at the beginning, and am still having fun, but wish it was as competitive as earlier in the week. I’m looking forward to next matchup, win or lose – I just hope it’s as even as this matchup was in the first half.
Blackgate will be annihilated by SBI come tomorrow, so in the end the joke will be on them. Blackgate was incredibly competitive with DB and ahead of FA at the beginning of the week. It’s a bit disappointing, because I would have enjoyed being in the DB/FA/BG bracket forever. It was a close match, and that’s why I enjoy WvW – a fun and enjoyable PvP experience. It’s sad that the Euro crews xferred over and gave them the edge, but it will backfire and be frustrating for the rest of their non-Euro population. I’m actually quite looking forward to being in another round of tier 3, it seems like one of the most enjoyable brackets.
As for the BG players who have been WvWing since last Friday, great game to you, and your server is extremely organized and competent. To the others who enjoy the xfers over – you did win fair and square. That I cannot deny, I just wish that it was without the transfers. No one can blame you for trying to recruit players for the night shifts, it makes sense if you want to move up.
Just curious of there are any matches that aren’t essentially blowouts. Tier 1 and 2 look to be that way, and tier 3 is headed that way now that DB has given up and BG has a much stronger off-peak presence. Just curious to see if there are any matches where scores or ppt are somewhat even, and one server doesn’t control all three orbs.
Name one Orb hack that Blackgate has EVER done. One. Don’t give me this everybody’s doing it crap. It’s our job to let you know you have cheaters. It’s your job to deal with them.
Actually, I’m pretty sure that’s ArenaNet’s job. It’s also their job to keep their gamemode even remotely competitive, but mid-match transfers have proven they simply aren’t capable of that. I’m just hoping there ends up being a “balanced” tier where there is at least some competition. I could care less if that’s at the bottom with K or the top with HOD. I just want a somewhat competitive match. Winning isn’t so important to me, fighting on even footing (not having three orbs and not having zero orbs) is. I play for the PvP – and the ONE game mode in sPvP doesn’t cut it. It’s not that I don’t do well even vs a team with three orbs (and heck, if I want I could just xfer to a server that has all of them every day), it’s just that it’s a silly artificial stat bonus that one can’t alter on an individual level.
Yeah a transfer of 40-50 people after losing 40-50 people to your server is MASS TRANSFER. Why do you keep ignoring the posts of the EU guys. They keep explaining that not all of them transferred. It’s 40-50 people max. Does it make a big difference? Probably not. But do you realize how much effort Urge, RQ, and the others did to catch up on DB’s score? I’ve spent 12 hrs playing wvwvw 4pm-4am gmt+8. and there were lots of DB defending. Stop making reasons. When you were winning you were flooding the boards of how good your server is. What did we do? We never stopped fighting. Now we’re ahead you guys suddenly lost morale? Is that what your server is made of?
If you want, you can look at my post history. I never boast about DB, it’s a freaking server. It’s not something I really have an affiliation with. This isn’t DAoC, and you can transfer servers every 24h for free, which really diminishes server pride. At the moment I play this game for fun. My posts tend to be railing against winning by a landside or losing by a landslide. I don’t like either side of the spectrum. I think BG is a good server, that being said, I was on last night. We had almost no defenders, but tbh I don’t care about that. What I care about is an even match. I’ll go to whatever tier is at least somewhat evenly matched, just point me in the right direction.
Coming from DAoC on a realm that was always behind, I play for the PvP. Sadly, this isn’t DAoC. In RvR there was no real “giving up”, because there was no scoring system and you always had something to fight for. It didn’t matter if you got an orb or access to DF now, or a month from now. All that mattered is that once you got it you had it. There wasn’t really too much falling behind and snowballing, because there was no changing matchups or score, no real definitive “winning”. There was just RvR.
Sadly, here in WvW it seems that everyone gives up extremely easily. And to be quite honest – they have good reason to. Unlike RvR, in WvW you can simply “wait it out”. There also aren’t the potent 8 man groups like there were in DAoC, AOE limitations in DAoC caused zergs to be impotent vs an extremely good and organized crew. Here, with the downed state and rallying, as well as AOE limitations, numbers are just that much stronger.
Anyway /rant. I just want to find a good matchup where I can get some decent PvP in while ALL sides are actually participating in the matches.
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You were competing for first and likely would have taken it. It was a very close match and I’ve yet to see BG ever give up. Sadly, now it’s just a steamroll fest. Not really fun for either side. Looks like things are switching up again now that it’s primetime, but come the off-peak hours we will see if the Euros stick around, as that is what will truly decide this game.
^ You really have no understanding of what’s happened over the past few days, do you? Perhaps you should read the Guru forums. It’s completely legitimate that Blackgate is winning currently. They ended up recruiting or having Euro guilds transfer to them. They were also clawing their way up to begin with even without the Euro guilds, and were in a position to potentially take first place. However, it was the Euro guilds that appear to have really sealed their victory. I’m not sure exactly what is false about what I’ve said.
Blackgate was and is and incredible server. That being said, he is right that their victory was sealed with the transfer of some strong off-peak hours guilds. They were already in a competitive position, but now it seems that hope is lost for Dragonbrand. There is already talk of the largest guild xferring off on the Guru forums, simply because the server can’t compete with the “night” presence.
Was fun while it lasted, though! I think what I’ll be doing from now on is transferring to matchups that remain fairly close/competitive, just to be able to enjoy WvW to its full potential.
After a few rounds of server matching, the servers will be paired up with other servers with similar activity. Thus, this is why we have the ranking system.
This will not happen with the way free transfers are impacting the game. It’s no fault of the players, either. Look at FA/BG/DB, it was a pretty close match, and now it looks as though after all of the Euro transfers to BG all of DB has given up. In fact, our largest guild is considering xferring to BG simply because they can’t compete with the off-peak hours. Can’t blame the players for using this to their advantage, but you can blame ArenaNet for trying to rank such fluctuating and changing servers.
A good chunk of the people on HoD are there because they don’t like true competition. They like to win, regardless of difficulty. That’s fine, as everyone is allowed to play the game the way they want to – but I think you’ll have a hard time getting many HoD players to transfer. Most of the PvPers who could care less about an easy victory are on other servers such as Kaineng, fighting against the odds.
Me?
I just like PvP. I could care less about winning or losing, as long as there is competition. I would also prefer for there to be no orb bonuses – from the perspective of a DAoC vet it seems like a bad clone of a good concept that worked in a totally different (persistant, mind you) environment.
Anyway, I’m detratcting from the purpose of the thread. Good luck to Kaineng, I hope things improve for you and you end up in a bracket with some solid competition on (somewhat) even footing.
This is nothing. You should have seen desolation this morning. 1 supply camp is all we had. ALL WE HAD!
[img]http://imageshack.us/a/img443/4640/gw066q.jpg[/img]
(If this doesn’t come up as an image, I apologize. I’ve tried disabling textile and tried with textile enabled and ! around the image. Not sure why it’s bugged for me)
Does that make you feel better? And I sort of agree with the above poster. It’s certainly not a competion to race to last, but I still feel that people should keep trying.
Sadly, most don’t want to keep trying, and the orbs simply reinforce their belief that they can’t win. I mean, you already own absolutely nothing, why be at a disadvantage as well?
If you look at my post history, you’ll see that I’ve held this same opinion through wins and losses. The orbs are silly, this isn’t DAoC.
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Personally I don’t care about the guy that started this thread. He’s obviously a troll. What I can say is, I bet you’re glad that server transfers are still free.
If you actual care about reading my full response, go back a page. I’m too lazy to retype it. BG is a great server, but it’s sad to see free transfers ruin what was a really competitive and fun match. You guys were barely behind. Hopefully DB can retake the score in prime time, but it’s going to be rough with the new Euro guilds manning the off-hours for BG. I wish they would just merge NA and EU servers already to get full coverage for each server. I don’t like winning by a huge margin, nor losing by a huge margin. Especially when one server (be it the enemy or us) doesn’t have a chance to defend.
Sadly, I think the right thing for me is to abuse the server transfers myself. I’ll be heading to whatever matchup looks most competitive (fairly similar ticking score/orbs) each day. I could care less if that is to tier one or tier (whatever tier Devona’s is in). I just like a fun match. I played RvR (on Mid, where Mid and Hib got dominated) in DAoC, so winning doesn’t matter so much to me. What matters is there still being some good PvP out there where neither side has the ridiculous orb bonus, or has lost the will to fight.
Sadly, “waiting for next rotation” seems to be a common disorder among those who are losing. And tbh I can’t blame them. I wish they would just lock tiers so that the underdogs can actually learn to team up on the winning server, and so that people don’t feel they can just wait it out.
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Yeah, it’s frustrating. I’m on Dragonbrand. We crushed our first match, got crushed our second match with JQ (and CD, we both got crushed by JQ), then had a competitive match with BG/FA, but now sadly a very strong off-peak crew has xferred in to BG and it looks like we’re going the way of getting crushed again.
I could care less about winning or losing, I just want the matches to be close. At most hours of the day. Getting rid of orbs to prevent snowballing would be a start. They aren’t much fun whether you are winning or losing. They’re just an annoying stat bonus that diminishes from the fights. I dont’ like fighting with the huge advantage, or fighting vs the huge advantage.
As for population imbalance, that wont’ ever change until ANet decides to end free 24h delayed transfers.
There are so many issue right now, I don’t know. I ‘m considering just xferring each day to a match that is close so that I can enjoy some good open world PvP. I would do sPvP, but sadly the only game mode is conquest. It’s rather boring.
As things stand, server strength is fluctuation too rapidly for a ranking system to match servers versus opponents with equal statistics (be it skill or population). I really want to stick with WvW, because I love the style and the PvP, but I’m beginning to lose faith. It would be nice if a developer would comment on the plans to at least keep servers in a remotely competitive bracket.
Name one Orb hack that Blackgate has EVER done. One. Don’t give me this everybody’s doing it crap. It’s our job to let you know you have cheaters. It’s your job to deal with them.
Actually, I’m pretty sure that’s ArenaNet’s job. It’s also their job to keep their gamemode even remotely competitive, but mid-match transfers have proven they simply aren’t capable of that. I’m just hoping there ends up being a “balanced” tier where there is at least some competition. I could care less if that’s at the bottom with K or the top with HOD. I just want a somewhat competitive match. Winning isn’t so important to me, fighting on even footing (not having three orbs and not having zero orbs) is. I play for the PvP – and the ONE game mode in sPvP doesn’t cut it. It’s not that I don’t do well even vs a team with three orbs (and heck, if I want I could just xfer to a server that has all of them every day), it’s just that it’s a silly artificial stat bonus that one can’t alter on an individual level.
I just want to see the orbs gone. I’ve been on both sides, holding three orbs and holding none. Neither is fun. This isn’t RvR, it’s a completely different game. If you wait until friday, the game will start again on an even footing. There is no real “incentive” to get the orbs once you are extremely far behind. There is also no real incentive to try once you can’t win.
Personally, I still do, because I love PvP. That being said, the winning team (regardless of whether I’m on it or not) should not get this huge advantage because of the orbs. It’s hard to not make comparisons to DAoC because of the orbs — since the entire WvW concept is a clone of DAoC’s RvR. Let me just list the reasons why the orbs don’t have the same effect in WvW as they did in RvR:
-Matches were permanent. You always knew who the dominant server was and had months/years to work with the other underdog and build a mutually beneficial relationship
-In DAoC, the more keeps you controlled the weaker your guards became. Also, guards in general were much stronger in DAoC.
-It was much harder in DAoC to sweep the entire map on off peak hours (pretty much impossible), claim all of the orbs (relics), and upgrade their keeps.
-There is no incentive to get orbs back once the game has snowballed to the point where you realize you cant win. In DAoC, you HAD to try or you weren’t going to ever see the relics or DF again. There was no “waiting for reset”, what you saw was it.
Blah, I could go on and on. The point is that this isn’t DAoC, and this concept simply doesn’t translate into WvW the way it was meant to. Please, if you like (somewhat) balanced PvP, support removing the orbs or changing their bonuses. It is something that really turns off the losing side to trying to compete, and that’s a bad thing REGARDLESS of whether you’re winning with three orbs or losing with none, it’s just NOT FUN.
I really like BG, I posted in the other thread that they would be the server I would transfer to if I ever were to get sick of DB, simply because they have a great community. Sad to see cross-region and free 24h transfers still available, though. It’s really ruining the WvW.
We dominated our first week long matchup (wasn’t fun after the weekend/competition was over), completely got destroyed by JQ the second week(wasn’t fun after the weekend/competition was over), and finally had what looked to be a fairly competitive match with BG. It was awesome while it lasted, DB ended up ahead for a while — but not by much. There was never a clean sweep on off peak hours until the Euro transfers.
I can’t say I blame the Euro guilds, if you care about winning, it makes sense to xfer to an NA server. That being said, it’s frustrating for those of us who just like a good fight. I don’t like haveing 3 orbs, and I don’t like fighting against 3 orbs. Wish orbs would be removed in general, and as for population imbalance… I don’t know what could be done about that. The 3 way DAoC style setup only works to balance out the stronger presence when servers aren’t switching every week (either through server xfers, or through moving aroudn in ranks). You’ll notice that the only real bracket this is happening in is tier one, where the same four guilds are being rotated in and out, with HoD being the obvious choice to team up on.
Meh, I just hope that WvW works itself out. As it stands, it’s never going to be anything close to what RvR was without some serious pressure to stabilize servers and pit them against fairly evenly matched servers – and this is never going to happen with the current availability of server transfers. I feel like maybe we should just get over with and merge Euro/NA servers opposite queue patterns, that way there are always people in WvW. The way it is headed, that’s going to happen anyway, at least for the top 4-8 servers. Or the smart thing could be done, and server xfers removed.
I think what I’ll be doing is xferring to tiers where the WvW looks competitive, and then xfer to another tier once the match gets thrown. The only reason I’m in WvW is for the (fairly) competitive PvP andthe fun, so winning by a huge margin or losing by a huge margin isn’t very appealing to me.
(edited by MrPicklez.6473)